[HN Gopher] A Winner-Takes-All MMO-SAT
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A Winner-Takes-All MMO-SAT
Author : mtoner23
Score : 99 points
Date : 2022-02-28 16:13 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (mschfboard.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (mschfboard.org)
| ecshafer wrote:
| Its strange that MSCHF (Mischief) brands itself as an "art
| collective". They don't really seem like an Art company so much
| as just an advertising company. I posit the reasoning is to be
| more hip. They have a CEO! If it were at least a workers
| syndicate or something of that nature I would say its less of a
| pointless branding.
| jedimastert wrote:
| For devil's advocate, you could say the same thing about Andy
| Warhol. They explore aspects of American pop culture, and I
| think a lot of their projects are really fun.
| 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
| One fun aspect of this is that it meets the legal bar for the
| kind of contests that are pretty regulated. As such, they include
| an extensive terms and conditions pdf, which happens to contain a
| section on conduct and cheating.
|
| The tension between the T&Cs and the spirit of the contest is
| delicious.
|
| So the main site and the spirit of the contest says "Everyone
| will be cheating, and we don't care. Cheating is a legitimate
| test-taking strategy."
|
| Meanwhile the terms includes all sorts of things, including
| disallowing whatever the purveyors consider "unsportsmanlike"
| conduct. The whole section is vague enough to be fun to think
| about. (edit: removed the exact quote. it's long and didn't add
| much)
|
| I certainly know where I would draw the line between the kind of
| cheating allowed and the kind of cheating not allowed, but I
| expect we'd find a wide variety of where even HN readers would
| draw that line.
| legalcorrection wrote:
| Full context makes it a bit more clear. I don't think you can
| reasonably argue this is an invitation to hack. But yeah,
| interesting point.
|
| _" Unlike typical standardized tests, the MSAT is taken online
| and in private. Everyone will be cheating, and we don't care.
| Cheating is a legitimate test-taking strategy."_
| agentdrtran wrote:
| I was disappointed to see MSCHF move from doing a lot of making
| physical stuff to making mostly raffles/lotteries like this.
| jedimastert wrote:
| It's probably a lot harder/more expensive with the state of
| supply chains and travel and quarantine right now.
|
| I imagine just designing at the pace they do is harder when
| you're not in the same physical space
| IHLayman wrote:
| Can a model be trained in 4 days fast enough to score a perfect
| on this, under cost? It becomes a weirdly positive feedback loop
| if the pool keeps going up and up.
| Firmwarrior wrote:
| I'm looking forward to the test coming out, and a perfect score
| being posted 5 seconds later
| notpachet wrote:
| As the spirit wanes, the standardized test appears.
| ordinaryradical wrote:
| I feel this comment isnt going to get a lot of love but appears
| to be saying something interesting. Can you explain it further?
| CobrastanJorji wrote:
| It's an allusion to a Charles Bukowski poem called "Art": "As
| the spirit wanes, the form appears."
| whatshisface wrote:
| The parent is saying that after the liquor runs out, cops
| come by with breathalyzers.
| _joel wrote:
| You are in a darkened corridor...
| pkage wrote:
| This are the same group that made the "satan" Nikes with Lil Nas
| X a few years ago[0], and the guy behind Wordle works there[1].
|
| [0] https://www.cnn.com/style/article/lil-nas-x-mschf-satan-
| nike... [1] https://powerlanguage.co.uk/
| amazd wrote:
| nisegami wrote:
| Bit off topic, but I had no idea Josh Wardle also did Place and
| The Button at Reddit.
| jedimastert wrote:
| Holy bananas what a weird connection
| nemo1618 wrote:
| Given the provenance (MSCHF), I guess we can safely assume that
| the..."unfortunate"...MschfBoard logo was fully intentional.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| dragontamer wrote:
| I was kinda hoping for some kind of live 3SAT solver competition.
|
| College-admissions SAT is still a good callout though, and
| probably more relevant / memorable to more people.
| jareklupinski wrote:
| Got a free Saturday so I entered, wish me luck!
|
| Did pretty well on the actual SAT way back when, curious to see
| how it changed.
|
| I'll be taking it with a buddy who will go through questions on
| the computer, answer what they can, and yell out ones for me to
| calculate or google on my laptop while they go on to do the rest,
| then come back when I'm done.
|
| A two-way split is probably the most fun/profitable.
| skulk wrote:
| Given the "no-holds-barred, first-past-the-post" nature of this,
| the winner will be a group of people who split the test and each
| solved their part.
| mattigames wrote:
| They can avoid that if you have to answer the questions in
| order one by one, without the possibility of going back to
| previous questions.
| gknoy wrote:
| That would be hell. One of the best tactics I remember using
| on the paper one was skipping things and coming back later.
| Frost1x wrote:
| Can't you just setup one sacrificial account to grab the
| question pool, pass it out for distribution to solve, gather
| it back up, then step through the question pool with the
| solution set? Essentially they just collect the questions and
| answer something knowing the run won't be a success.
|
| Unless these questions are sampled from a larger question
| pool, a single registration sacrifice for Intel gathering
| seems worth the cost. You can even distribute the loses to
| your pool after. Worst case scenario your group loses the
| admission fee + adminision fee/group size.
| shmatt wrote:
| This is the answer.
|
| * Sacrificial account crawls all the questions and puts
| them in queue
|
| * Team members pull questions one by one - and push answers
| back
|
| * Leader fills out answers as soon as the current one comes
| in (assuming you can't jump backwards/forwards)
|
| As long as the people are good enough at these kinds of
| tests, you'll win. It'll probably end up being a battle of
| 10+ teams that work like this
| jandrese wrote:
| Maybe pulls a question and distributes it to the group,
| everyone answers, leader chooses the most popular answer.
| If you have to enter answers one at a time anyway there
| isn't as much opportunity to parallelize the task. You
| might get some win from the reading comprehension
| questions, but even then being 100% right is priority #1,
| as you can assume there will be multiple teams that get
| perfect scores.
| fallingknife wrote:
| You will need some error checking though. There is no
| trade off between accuracy and time here. Someone will
| get a 1600 and then if your team misses one you lose.
| Maybe each queued question goes to 3 people and unless
| all agree it goes to everyone's queue for vote.
| mysterydip wrote:
| * leader runs away with the pot
| zucker42 wrote:
| How do you build such a system when there's no example of
| how the website will be formatted?
| lbotos wrote:
| You have humans do the actual work, where computers are
| just there for faster organization of human effort:
|
| an app with two queues:
|
| - those who input questions by copy and pasting them into
| an app or transcribing them, or speech to text -- apple
| offers all of these to iOS users in plain ol textboxes as
| far as I'm aware. - those who solve by reading from the
| app and submitting answers.
|
| Have N inputters getting all of the questions Have M
| solvers solving
|
| This builds your answer bank.
|
| Have someone submit from the answer bank with a text
| based search.
| SteveDR wrote:
| Definitely. But how will they split the 154 questions? The
| prize pool is already big enough ($13k just a couple hours
| after the announcement and 5 days before the registration
| deadline) that 50 people could take it together and walk away
| with $260 each.
| zucker42 wrote:
| Given that one question missed means you lose, you have to be
| very careful to choose a good team. I've gotten a perfect score
| on a standardized test (during high school) but while I know a
| lot of smart people, I know no one who has also gotten a
| perfect score. And it's hard to know how to quickly distribute
| the test since the online format hasn't been released.
| kevmo wrote:
| I doubt it's going to actually be the SAT.
| thomasahle wrote:
| Has anyone tried to solve SATs with AI yet?
| neonate wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSCHF
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(page generated 2022-02-28 23:00 UTC)