[HN Gopher] David Boggs has died ___________________________________________________________________ David Boggs has died Author : rbanffy Score : 284 points Date : 2022-03-01 11:55 UTC (11 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com) | egberts1 wrote: | First commercial Ethernet media (1980) also was a RG-8X coaxial | cable using the circa-1940 RF connector called "N" (as opposed to | the F or the unthreaded RCA phono connector). | | You could then do "simple" vampire tap into such Ethernet RF | cable to expand your network. | | Because the then-10Base-5 signal is a guided RF-based wire, it | was originally made to allow communication in one-direction only | ... at a time (half-duplex). Each end of the wire had to wait | their turn (just like telegraph operators did by beaconing their | intent to send info by pre-sending some well-known code). | | Both IBM and Xerox Parc diverged into Token Bus and Star network | configuration to deal with this "half-duplex" issues using the | same collision backoff algorithm. | | I think David unknowingly cemented the IEEE 802.3 standard as a | winner when he prototyped the N-backoff algorithm for upcoming | 802.3 for the 802 IEEE Working Group. | | This half-duplex constraint of 802.3 (and 10Base-5) technology | was losing out to the IBM token bus (IEEE 802.5) methodology in | maximum bandwidth utilization. | | Of course, without this N-Backoff algorithm, 802.3 wouldn't have | made the next step of leveraging a twisted pair (precursor to | 802.3 10Base-T) possible to achieve this full-duplex and modern | Ethernet we know to this day. Token bus and token ring both had | effectively lost out in the Ethernet "Duplex War". | | While Bob Metcalf may have made it possible the 10Base-5 | communications, he also got a lot of hardware help so David Bogg | actually did the thinking of backoff algorithm ... at hardware | level. And the PARC performance team refined the backoff | algorithm to near perfection. | | Any error are mine and mine alone. I was close enough to that | circle, others may be closer. | haeberli wrote: | I was lucky enough to know him. Brilliant, hard-working, soft- | spoken. | orionblastar wrote: | Rip my condolences for the Boggs family. | neonate wrote: | https://archive.is/fVTEu | | http://web.archive.org/web/20220301034140/https://www.nytime... | deeblering4 wrote: | > Ethernet, the computer networking technology that connects PCs | to printers, other devices and the internet in offices and homes | | That has to be one of the worst description of ethernet that I've | seen! | gowld wrote: | What's a better one? | can16358p wrote: | Decades later, and many, many of both residental, office and | infrastructural networks still use Ethernet and it's not going | anywhere away soon. | | Respect. Rest in peace. | abraae wrote: | I remember working at IBM, token ring was the protocol du jure. | | Someone told me about this crazy non-IBM protocol where you | just shoved data into the wires. If it collided with someone | else's data - just try again! | | Thanks to a good helping of fud, there was no doubt in my mind | that this was a rubbish approach that wouldn't scale (though | obviously it was pretty handy not having to wire your network | into a ring configuration). | sshagent wrote: | wow, I've not heard 'token ring' mentioned for a long long | while. | ethbr0 wrote: | In retrospect, what were Token Ring's downsides that caused | it to lose? | | Requiring shielded twisted pair cabling? Processor costs | (when it mattered) and Ethernet's benefiting massively from | cheap switches (when hardware costs had dropped)? | abraae wrote: | I understand it was all about cost and complexity, token | ring was superior technically, but as ethernet prices | dropped steadily over the years, and its cheaper | collision detection approach turned out to usually be | "good enough" (especially with the advent of smart | switches that made collisions less of an issue), the | balance switched in ethernet's favour. | | Token ring cost 5-6 times as much, and required a special | MAU device (the thing that sat on the ring). Then the | actual networked computers had a point to point | connection to the MAU. Special cabling, not just twisted | pair. IBM charged a lot for anyone else to licence the | tech. | | Token ring was clever and worked well though - a heavily | used 10Mbps token ring network was far faster than the | equivalent ethernet network due to no collisions. | m463 wrote: | > _Decades later, and many, many of both residental, office and | infrastructural networks still use Ethernet and it 's not going | anywhere away soon._ | | It's true but kind of funny since ethernet has changed 180 | degrees from the original design. I remember tapping thick | cables with vampire taps when it was a shared medium with | collision detect and now cables are plug and play with a star | topology. | can16358p wrote: | Sure. Well some changes are likely to happen in 50 years, | especially "cosmetic" ones. But just like USB which now has | many form factors, or HTTP with all these added/changed | headers, the standard still lives as the king, which is a | visionary achievement by itself IMO. | sizzzzlerz wrote: | It constantly amazes me how great ideas and inventions stem from | the humblest beginnings. | | 1) Sees someone struggling over some problem and asks if he can | help. | | 2) Together, they get it working and it goes on to be used | globally | | 3) ... | | 4) "And the Nobel Prize for xxx goes to ..." | as-j wrote: | Oh no! This breaks my heart. :( | | David and Ron Crane hired me for my first job in California right | around 2000. I had no clue who they both were we just met at a | trade show and I said I was looking for a job, we had this crazy | interview where we just talked about anything and everything, and | voila I was working in silicon valley. I think we spent about 2 | hours talking about how we could float a balloon beside an AM | radio station and how light up a light bulb... | | Anyways, who fresh out of school doesn't work for the inventor of | ethernet/fast ethernet/a core founder of 3com, etc? I only spent | 2 years working with them, and I've always been looking to work | with similar talent/kindness/etc. How they put up with a fresh | grad I will never know. | | I remember David and I working on an SDSL project, and we were | just having the worst time ever. We couldn't get it train and | finish setting up the link, it did almost everything but then | just failed at the end. It was meant to be easy....but we just | couldn't figure it out. We spent a crazy amount of time on it, | maybe a month. Finally Ron got fed up, and asked "have you tried | reversing the pairs?" and it worked! Turns out we had plugged the | cable in backwards, and trying to streamline/debug the code had | removed the final bits of cleanup code that checked if the pair | was reversed. Ah well. | | They were amazing mentors and friends. David invited me over to | his home for wine tastings, to meet his cats (Palo and Alto), | etc. I unfortunately lost touch with him over the years as I | moved, he moved, etc. | | Thank you David, you welcomed me to California and you'll be | missed. | rendall wrote: | My condolences. | atdrummond wrote: | Sorry for your loss. | | I ran into him once at the Computer History Museum in Mountain | View a while back and he was willing to grab lunch with me and | some friends and shoot the shit for a few hours. I can tell why | he was a great mentor - approachable and knowledgeable. | stringfood wrote: | Finally some relevancy I can bring to Hacker News. Ron Crane | was my uncle and him and David Boggs were such good friends | till the end. Any more good stories from Ron or Dave? They are | hard to come by. | | 2000 would've been around the time of LAN media, no? | aerostable_slug wrote: | I ran across him years ago at a shooting event (he had a very | cool Steyr AUG). He was humble, down to Earth, and just a really | neat guy. Amazing to think how his work impacted us all. | | His one conceit to vanity? The personalized plate on his older | Mercedes SL coupe was something like ETHERNT, which is why I | initially approached him. | seibelj wrote: | License plates are a great conversation starter. Mine maps | easily to "bitcoins" and I have had a lot of impromptu | conversations (and probably generated a lot of anger from | crypto haters driving behind me!). | aidenn0 wrote: | Just the yesterday I saw a car with the plates "TSR73" drive | by; I'm still curious who that was as, AFAIK all of the | founders of TSR are dead. I suppose it's possible it was | someone with those initials that was born or graduated in | 1973, but weird coincidence. | bsagdiyev wrote: | I had one of those yellow on black CA plates that said | "INITSIX" -- only one person ever mentioned it but I enjoyed | having it. | steviedotboston wrote: | I heard he drank 70 beers on a flight once. RIP chickeman. | albeebe1 wrote: | you're thinking Wade Boggs | standardly wrote: | RIP Wade Boggs | bena wrote: | Again, Wade Boggs is very much alive. | ghostbrainalpha wrote: | The beer drinking story as told by Charlie Day (Almost | Sunny in Philadelphia): | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3lpKvr1GCs | ChrisArchitect wrote: | Was feeling sombre about this thread but this randomness made | me laugh | ChrisMarshallNY wrote: | _> "He was the perfect partner for me," Mr. Metcalfe said in an | interview. "I was more of a concept artist, and he was a build- | the-hardware-in-the-back-room engineer."_ | | This is a _very_ common pattern in these types of things. | | Usually, the "concept artist" gets all the credit, but the one in | the back room was every bit as essential as the "idea person." | | In my experience, "idea people" seldom understand how | _incredibly_ valuable good "back room implementation" people | are. | | I'm biased, though, as that's my forte, and I have had to fend | off a _lot_ of highly insulting "idea people," over the years. | | _> His response was unequivocal. "Seems Ethernet does not work | in theory," he said, "only in practice."_ | | Ooohhh... _burn_ | gowld wrote: | Which _successful_ "idea people" don't value their "backroom | implementation" people? | ChrisMarshallNY wrote: | _Successful_ ones? | | None, that I know of. | | _Un_ successful ones, though...pretty much every single one | that I've ever met. | | Story time: | | I have a couple of friends that are _quite_ rich. They run an | apparel company, but a "white-label" one. You've probably | worn clothes by them, but never knew it. | | The "creativity" behind the company, is the wife. She's | pretty awesome. But her husband is a _very_ sharp | businessman. Really humble, and low-key, but woe be unto | anyone that tries to pull a fast one on him. | | Without her, he would be nothing, but without _him_ , she | would probably still be in a small, windowless, room, in some | Manhattan building, helping someone else get rich. | spogbiper wrote: | Maybe Steve Jobs? just going by the anecdotes I've heard over | the years | ChrisMarshallNY wrote: | From what I understand, Jobs was actually really good at | picking good implementation people. | | He treated people like crap. Not sure if that extended to | his implementation people. I'm pretty sure he gave them a | lot of agency and money, though. | | I don't really recall him surrendering the spotlight to his | backroom people. Cook seems to be much better at that. | fsckboy wrote: | not tryna be a grammar nazi (think of me more like a | schoolteacher within a fascist regime) but _forte_ , pronounced | "fort", is a French word for strong and that's the word we use | in English. | | Pronouncing it _forte_ is actually a confusion with the Italian | word _forte_ which comes from music and means loud. | ChrisMarshallNY wrote: | Fair 'nuff. I appreciate the correction, and will use it | correctly, henceforth. | | Thanks! | | You may like this: http://queenofwands.net/d/20031003.html | throwanem wrote: | Not so fast. /'fo:teI/ is a perfectly permissible English | pronunciation for "forte", and it's also the one most if | not all fluent speakers expect that word to take - | especially since /'fo:t/ is how we pronounce "fort" meaning | "fortification". The next substantiated claim I see that | these words should be homonymous will be the first, and | even a substantiated such claim remains incorrect in the | face of the way people actually use and understand | language. | | The only thing I see here to quibble with would be the | acute accent on the final "e", which is rarely if ever a | feature of modern English orthography in any case. Beyond | that, I think GP's prescriptivism has, like that of the | Academie Francaise, proceeded to a fault - specifically in | GP's case, the fault of recommending you mispronounce | "forte". | ChrisMarshallNY wrote: | I took it as "lose the accent, but pronounce it 'fort- | TAY'." | mattmajewski wrote: | A living legend. Ethernet was groundbreaking...I have memories of | helping my dad wire our house, we bought like 400ft of cable, a | wire stripper, and a ton of RJ45 plugs and customized them to the | perfect length. Hardwired high speed gaming, video production, on | stage audio monitors, so many things benefited and are still used | today. RIP. | KineticLensman wrote: | > "Seems Ethernet does not work in theory," he said, "only in | practice." | | Respect! | mshockwave wrote: | slightly tangent: is it true that ethernet doesn't have a solid | math theory behind? if so, how does it scale? | adrianmonk wrote: | I'm old enough to have been a sysadmin before ethernet | switches were available. We used (literal) hubs, where every | packet goes to every machine. | | And it really did not scale. If you got too many computers on | one Ethernet network together, things would start to really | bog down. | | We would address this by splitting an ethernet network into | two. When it got too slow, we'd take our network of (say) | 1.2.3.0 - 1.2.3.255 and split it into two networks, 1.2.3.0 - | 1.2.3.127 and 1.2.3.128 - 1.2.3.255. Each of these ethernet | networks would get its own separate port in the IP router. | (Which could require adding cards to the router. And put | extra processing load on it.) | | DHCP did not exist yet, so we had to manually go to each | computer and change its broadcast address, subnet mask, and | default route. | | This was disruptive, so we tried to keep all addresses in the | lower portion of the address range so that they would | continue to function well enough during such a transition. | For example, a host at 1.2.3.10 with subnet mask | 255.255.255.0, router address 1.2.3.1, and broadcast address | 1.2.3.255 would still function when we changed its ethernet | to be 1.2.3.0 - 1.2.3.127 instead of 1.2.3.0 - 1.2.3.255. Its | broadcast address and netmask were wrong, but it wasn't | completely offline. (By contrast, a host with address | 1.2.3.200 would be out of range for the new network | parameters and would have problems immediately.) | | Then Grand Junction came up with the idea of ethernet | switches to isolate traffic, and we didn't get one because | they were a bajillion dollars. I don't know the exact prices, | but I would guesstimate something like $5000 to $10000 for a | switch with around 10 ports. | | But eventually they came down in price. With an ethernet | switch, everything was amazingly easy in comparison. It | basically did the same thing I'm talking about (splitting an | ethernet into pieces so the devices don't try to talk over | each other), except instead of it being a weeks-long manual | process, it happened automatically in real time. | | Once switches became standard, ethernet was pretty scalable. | Broadcast traffic still isn't scalable if it's used too much, | but otherwise it basically works fine. | gjf wrote: | Short answer is: it doesn't. When designing networks you will | try to reduce the scope of layer 2 broadcast domains. | justin66 wrote: | Of course it's not true. | markjenkinswpg wrote: | Switching. | gowld wrote: | Why would math theory be required for scaling? | fragmede wrote: | Implementation details at layer 1 and 2 of the OSI model. | If machine aa needs to talk to machine zz (and there are | all the machine in between them), then aa needs a timeslice | to change the electrical levels that are on the actual | ethernet cable, as does zz in order to reply, but if ab and | ac and ad and all the way to zy are also busy | communicating, then when does zz _get_ that timeslice? | Switching (vs hubs) improves the situation drastically, but | as you scale up (like, thousands of thousands aka | "webscale", there's clearly going to be some sort of limit | at some point (until you apply other technology). What is | that point using Ethernet though, and how do you calculate | that? | mbostleman wrote: | "[using Ethernet] people can send email over an office network or | visit a website through a coffee shop hot spot." | | Seems a bit understated. | drallison wrote: | It is sad to learn that David Boggs has passed. Sadder still, | ethernet dominates his acknowledged legacy. Pupnet at Xerox PARC | was the test bed for modern networked computing. John Shoch and | Jon Hupp, He did the measurements that made improving ethernet | possible.And his code made worms possible; see The "Worm" | Programs Early Experience with a Distributed Computation, which | appeared in CACM 25:3 (March 1982). | xbar wrote: | RIP, David Boggs. | | I did not know him personally, but I was always grateful for his | humility and grace while wearing the mantle great innovation. | nealabq wrote: | A low-profile guy whose work benefits us all. | | https://www.engadget.com/ethernet-co-inventor-david-boggs-di... | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Boggs ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-03-01 23:00 UTC)