[HN Gopher] OpenSearch - open-source search and analytics based ...
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       OpenSearch - open-source search and analytics based on Apache 2.0
       Elasticsearch
        
       Author : gjvc
       Score  : 72 points
       Date   : 2022-03-05 17:17 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (opensearch.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (opensearch.org)
        
       | phpisatrash wrote:
       | I want to be clear here. I tried to replace Elastic search with
       | OpenSearch. However, besides it's just s fork I couldn't run in.
       | OpenSearch requires a lot of configurations that basically are
       | automatic on ElasticSearch. I had spent so many time trying to
       | fix bugs just to run in on my local machine that made just give
       | up and keep with ElasticSearch.
        
         | pojzon wrote:
         | Opensearch is Elasticsearch with OpenDistro..
         | 
         | Its not "more" or "less" configuration.
         | 
         | If you mean "paid elasticsearch cloud" is easier to use - I
         | would agree because its well.. a paid service.
         | 
         | After maintaining 27 OSS ES clusters that had to be migrated to
         | OS because OSS ES does not exist anymore, you pretty much have
         | no other option than to use OS, even for security patches
         | only..
        
       | andyfleming wrote:
       | Only semi-related, but I've recently started using
       | https://www.meilisearch.com/. It's relatively limited, but works
       | great for small use cases. It's also pretty easy to operate. I'm
       | hoping as it continues to grow it will support more features and
       | use cases. I don't think the creators intend to address the same
       | depth of complex features in ElasticSearch (and the like), but
       | that's a desirable attribute in my opinion.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | cmckn wrote:
       | Honestly elasticsearch is kind of a mess these days, I'm pretty
       | excited to see where Amazon takes it. Hopefully we all have a
       | better, truly open-source search engine to use in the future.
        
         | k__ wrote:
         | They should throw it away and build something new.
        
           | dhd415 wrote:
           | I am no fan of a lot of the design choices or the effort
           | required to operate large ES clusters, but there are easily
           | several hundred man-years of development effort behind ES. It
           | would be a really long time before a team starting from
           | scratch could produce something better.
        
         | philosopher1234 wrote:
         | How is it a mess?
        
           | cmckn wrote:
           | Feature bloat, bad documentation, API models that are nearly
           | inscrutable. Backwards-incompatible changes are constant,
           | requiring reindexing.
           | 
           | I'd like to see the architecture re-thought to include an
           | indexer, like Apache Druid. I'd like to see a proper command
           | line tool ('searchctl'?), and API clients a-la gRPC (to be
           | less Java-centric). I'd generally like the project to go back
           | to basics and design for 2022 applications.
        
       | unfocussed_mike wrote:
       | Notably, Magento 2.4.4 (due for release in a few days) adds
       | OpenSearch support.
       | 
       | The ElasticSearch dependency has always frustrated me, not least
       | because it broke in annoying ways. OpenSearch could be good news.
        
         | Kwpolska wrote:
         | Note that OpenSearch is a fork of Elasticsearch, so many
         | (most?) things you might have disliked about ES are likely
         | still there.
        
           | unfocussed_mike wrote:
           | Oh, of course. But an open source implementation of
           | ElasticSearch is (based on my experience of open source
           | generally) likely to end up in core distributions again, and
           | have longer support lifetimes/more backports. Plus it makes
           | it easier for SaaS platforms in a lot of ways.
        
       | simonw wrote:
       | This is Amazon's fork of Elasticsearch, to avoid the licensing
       | restrictions introduced when they switched from Apache 2 license
       | to "Elastic License and Server Side Public License" -
       | https://www.elastic.co/pricing/faq/licensing
        
         | deknos wrote:
         | and tbh it's enough for most of the people. and opensearch
         | supports also OpenID/Oauth.
        
         | stingraycharles wrote:
         | I wonder how much money AWS is making off Elasticsearch? The
         | efforts they're going through seem to be substantial, which
         | makes me wonder just how much it must be.
         | 
         | Alternatively, it must be a strategic play of some kind with
         | the technology behind it, but that seems very unlikely to me.
        
           | markhahn wrote:
           | Amazon's thing is the network effect, not margins on a
           | particular feature.
        
         | ghusto wrote:
         | And my bet is it's the one most are going to be using from now
         | on. I used to think this was a fairly black and white issue,
         | but now two things have coloured it for me.
         | 
         | Firstly, dick moves like this:
         | https://github.com/elastic/elasticsearch-py/pull/1623
         | 
         | Secondly, I don't buy the argument from Elastic any more. Yes,
         | the ethical thing to do when you're making money from someone's
         | work is at least contribute back. At the same time though,
         | they're making money from packaging it up and selling it _as a
         | service_. That "as a service" part is where they're making the
         | bucks.
         | 
         | A bonus thirdly; OpenSearch really is Open Source, and
         | ElasticSearch no longer is.
        
           | jamesblonde wrote:
           | We switched to OpenSearch from Elastic, as we have an open
           | source platform. It's actually better than open source
           | elastic - with the security plugin and k-nn plugin (an
           | embedding store):
           | 
           | https://www.hopsworks.ai/post/open-distro-for-
           | elasticsearch-...
        
           | tuwtuwtuwtuw wrote:
           | I doubt it. Their forum seems pretty dead, Elasticsearch has
           | the known name, etc etc. Seems a bit like MariaDb/Mysql where
           | Mysql are still the default choice for most companies (over
           | MariaDb).
           | 
           | I know some people on hackernews etc are upset with the
           | decisions of Elastic. Suspect most people couldn't care less,
           | even if they are even aware.
        
             | Kwpolska wrote:
             | > Seems a bit like MariaDb/Mysql where Mysql are still the
             | default choice for most companies (over MariaDb).
             | 
             | [citation needed]. Some Linux distros (notably Debian,
             | Fedora, Arch) only have MariaDB in their repos and will
             | push you towards it, even if you try to ask for MySQL.
        
               | freethejazz wrote:
               | https://mariadb.com/kb/en/distributions-which-include-
               | mariad... and look for "replaces" or "defaulted to".
               | 
               | CentOS even just installs MariaDB when you `yum install
               | MySQL`
        
           | zthrowaway wrote:
           | We're looking to migrate from Elastic to OpenSearch for these
           | reasons. We're a really huge elastic user.
           | 
           | Also the EOL support on elastic versions are pretty
           | aggressive now. It's been a challenge for us to keep up with
           | it.
        
           | dijit wrote:
           | FD: I have a friend who works at Elastic, though he doesn't
           | really colour my opinions of things.
           | 
           | > Firstly, dick moves like this:
           | https://github.com/elastic/elasticsearch-py/pull/1623
           | 
           | I understand that this is unpopular, but you can make a very
           | strong argument that it's to prevent weird errors in the
           | future. I'm also guilty of littering my code with Asserts to
           | ensure the universe is working fine.
           | 
           | The alternative is to allow it to work and then you end up
           | with weird issues like when you connect mysql client to
           | mariadb server (and vice-versa): https://stackoverflow.com/qu
           | estions/50169576/mysql-8-0-11-er...
           | 
           | > Secondly, I don't buy the argument from Elastic any more.
           | Yes, the ethical thing to do when you're making money from
           | someone's work is at least contribute back. At the same time
           | though, they're making money from packaging it up and selling
           | it _as a service_. That "as a service" part is where they're
           | making the bucks.
           | 
           | That's just an opinion, yes they have a service, and yes it
           | competes with Amazon. Is it cool for Amazon to take a body of
           | work and sell it without supporting it? Are amazon actually
           | supporting it? Is it the same as Elastic using Lucene? (not
           | really because Elastic submits a the majority of fixes to
           | Lucene, but, you get it).
           | 
           | it's kinda gray, I'm sure Amazon thinks they're the good guy,
           | but it's hard for me to look at Elastic as the bad guy in all
           | this.
        
             | thayne wrote:
             | Amazon did contribute patches back to elasticsearch. Just
             | not as much as Elastic wanted I guess? On the other hand I
             | do think Amazon was probably in the wrong to call their
             | hosted service Elasticsearch.
        
               | dhd415 wrote:
               | It seems especially egregious that AWS claimed their
               | hosted offering was a partnership with Elastic when they
               | launched it:
               | https://twitter.com/kimchy/status/1351534454154543106
        
             | jamesblonde wrote:
             | Breaking backwards compatability for clients would normally
             | be a massive risk, but Elastic took the risk. It severs the
             | link to OpenSearch, totally. We have 2 ecosystems, now.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | sdesol wrote:
       | Based on my latest analysis, OpenSearch is very active as the
       | following shows:
       | 
       | https://oss.gitsense.com/insights/github?q=pull-age%3A%3C%3D...
       | 
       | but it is still not as active as Elasticsearch, which is to be
       | expected given how long it has been around as the following
       | shows:
       | 
       | https://oss.gitsense.com/insights/github?q=pull-age%3A%3C%3D...
       | 
       | Full disclosure: The above insights are from my tool
        
         | gjvc wrote:
         | activity _alone_ is not a reliable proxy for quality
        
           | sdesol wrote:
           | This is true, but it is a huge proxy for investment and
           | survivability. In the beginning, it was hard to tell how much
           | Amazon would invest in OpenSearch, but it appears now (based
           | on activity) that Amazon is committed to OpenSearch.
        
             | jamesblonde wrote:
             | Based on my experience, I can see it. I had the OpenSearch
             | PM reach out to us because of our work with OpenSearch. AWS
             | are investing for the long haul, here.
        
               | sdesol wrote:
               | Yeah if you look at only changes to Java files in
               | OpenSearch (OpenSearch + Security) and Elasticsearch, the
               | number of contributors is growing at a steady pace and
               | who knows, it may well surpass Elasticsearch in a year or
               | two.                    month  |    project    | authors
               | | commits | files |  churn          ---------+-----------
               | ----+---------+---------+-------+---------
               | 2022-03 | elasticsearch |      61 |     529 |   948 |
               | 39307         2022-03 | opensearch    |      20 |     138
               | |   603 |   26042         2022-02 | elasticsearch |
               | 110 |    2783 |  3546 |  287818         2022-02 |
               | opensearch    |      45 |     582 |  1441 |  126678
               | 2022-01 | elasticsearch |     126 |    2431 |  3609 |
               | 360828         2022-01 | opensearch    |      40 |
               | 175 |   640 |   26902         2021-12 | elasticsearch |
               | 103 |    1803 |  4050 |  301715         2021-12 |
               | opensearch    |      33 |     166 |   703 |   30182
               | 2021-11 | elasticsearch |      94 |    1430 |  2309 |
               | 141589         2021-11 | opensearch    |      31 |
               | 119 |   932 |   44234         2021-10 | elasticsearch |
               | 102 |    1013 | 12589 | 1217275         2021-10 |
               | opensearch    |      28 |     142 |  5776 | 1256157
               | 2021-09 | elasticsearch |      83 |     729 |  2269 |
               | 119506         2021-09 | opensearch    |      17 |
               | 53 |   126 |    8336         2021-08 | elasticsearch |
               | 87 |     654 |  2479 |  180385         2021-08 |
               | opensearch    |      23 |      42 |   128 |    3610
        
             | gjvc wrote:
             | Agree it is a proxy for (community support) + investment
             | and survivability
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-05 23:00 UTC)