[HN Gopher] A report on exercise and sleep (2021)
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A report on exercise and sleep (2021)
Author : Tomte
Score : 56 points
Date : 2022-03-05 18:18 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (rubenerd.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (rubenerd.com)
| chrisbrandow wrote:
| It's really tough when the first summary of a study is incorrect
| because it sets the tone for all subsequent coverage. It is so
| common with scientific studies.
| dorianmariefr wrote:
| ~> exercise fish: Unknown command: exercise ~>
| sleep usage: sleep seconds
| sam_letter wrote:
| This might help somebody but it's not super related to the
| article: in 2012 I had very bad and worsening depression and
| anxiety even though I had great, stress-free life. My doctor
| immediately suspected some deficiency in minerals/vitamins. We
| did a million tests and nothing out of the ordinary. Long story
| short, we did a sleep test and turns out I had horrible sleep
| because of my congested nose caused by sinusitis! Sleep is
| incredibly important.
| dchuk wrote:
| How did you fix the sinusitis?
| 1_player wrote:
| I have the same exact problem and my way of dealing with it
| is an extreme elimination diet. It's hard, but I can sleep,
| and I'd rather sleep than pig out on food. Gluten, sugar,
| spices and a myriad of vegetables and grains are triggers for
| me.
|
| Also daily saline nasal rinses and I can breathe better than
| ever, though diet is what does the most work.
|
| My pet theory is years of junk food precipitating into IBS
| and leaky gut, so only the food that cause fewer reactions
| are ok. In a healthy body some "toxins" are tolerated and
| don't cause issues, but when your gut is fucked you need to
| start from scratch.
| sam_letter wrote:
| My case was very bad to the point I was also losing my sense
| of smell so I had to have a surgery. It's a laser procedure
| and it worked like a charm.
| kowlo wrote:
| Can't breath through my nose, makes my sleep paralysis much
| worse, can't smell properly and it impacts taste a little too
|
| Breath right strips help a little
| lr4444lr wrote:
| Were you totally unaware of how bad you sleep was?
|
| Did you have any other symptoms related to poor sleep?
|
| I ask because I have structural nasal issues that I believe are
| affecting my sleep, but I'm terribly afraid of surgical
| correction due to the risk of Empty Nose Syndrome. My fitness
| tracker says my sleep is okay, but I'm starting to doubt it.
|
| What kind of sleep study did you get done?
| eurekin wrote:
| I can recommend getting :
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Withings-Nokia-Sleep-Temperature-
| Comp...
|
| It doesn't replace the true sleep study, but can still help
| yourabstraction wrote:
| As someone who's also suffered from poor sleep, related to
| nasal issues, I'm curious what you've tried. Have you tried
| mouth taping, chin straps, or breathe right strips? How about
| dietary changes to reduce congestion? What about breathing
| exercises and exercise in general?
|
| I've personally found mouth taping to be the most beneficial,
| along with breathing exercises (and general exercise) and
| eating a cleaner diet to reduce congestion. One thing I do is
| get in bed a bit early so I can do some breathing exercises
| and get my nasal breathing really dialed in before falling
| asleep.
|
| I lay in bed on my back and progressively slow my nasal
| breathing, focusing on very long and complete exhales. I roll
| over onto my side when I'm ready to fall asleep. I've tried
| box breathing, and 4-7-8 breathing for this purpose, but I
| find the extended inhales to be energizing, and not
| conductive to falling asleep.
|
| I actually did have a septoplasty and turbinate reduction
| back in 2015 before I'd ever even heard of empty nose
| syndrome. When I first listened to "Breath", by James Nestor
| and he talked about empty nose syndrome I recoiled in terror.
| I had anxiety for a bit, imagining I may have it and not have
| noticed and from imaging how my life could have turned out if
| I had a bad surgeon. After a few, I realized those fears were
| silly, and thanked my lucky stars that I didn't suffer that
| terrible fate.
|
| The surgery helped my nasal breathing slightly, but it wasn't
| dramatic or life changing. Knowing about empty nose syndrome
| now, I would definitely try all other possibilities before
| going under the knife. I think the surgery can be life
| changing for some, so it may just depend on how bad your
| structural issues are and how good the surgeon is.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| Tried strips - none of them did anything. May try mouth
| taping since it seems low risk. I have asthma though (adult
| onset), which complicates things. I'm pretty good about
| exercise - my fitness tracker can nail my resting heart
| rate if nothing else! I'm just a little skeptical about its
| overall sleep tracking. I am pretty sure identifies waking
| and slow wave well, but overall, I just don't feel I sleep
| as deeply as I did even 5-6 years ago. I took percocet last
| year for a night right after surgery and I hit a level of
| restfulness that was unmistakably something I hadn't
| experienced for a long time.
|
| Can fall asleep on my back just fine, but for some reason,
| every night I wake up hot with a dry mouth about 3-5 hours
| in and I have to move to side sleeping to deal with the
| nose.
|
| I think I may just have to pony up for an in-clinic sleep
| study already and get some better data. I also have chronic
| muscle cramps and pains from exercise overexertion that are
| not going away, so again, I'm suspecting poor quality
| sleep. My diet is pretty good, and my blood tests haven't
| ever suggested mineral deficiency.
|
| I had nose surgery about 20 years ago for a deviated septum
| when I was in my late teens, and it did help, but it has
| since redeviated somewhat, though not nearly as bad as
| before. I think simply being younger and having more growth
| ahead of me at that age made tissue regrowth more likely.
| sam_letter wrote:
| I was completely unaware. in 2012 I DID feel more tired than
| usual but just chalked it up to depression and anxiety. Yes,
| I had muscle aches too! hence the doctor immediately
| suspecting lack of vitamins and minerals. I don't remember
| the sleep study type :(
| rubicon33 wrote:
| I wonder nowadays if an Apple watch and the AutoSleep app
| could tell you the same thing. It is such a great tool for
| tracking your sleep.
| __turbobrew__ wrote:
| I had something similar, but it was due to being disturbed by
| my partner throughout the night. We bought a SOLID king size
| bedframe and memory foam mattress and now I don't even notice
| when my partner is also in bed.
| robertlf wrote:
| I find that if I get eight hours of sleep at night, I can move
| mountains. But if I only get 7.75 hours of sleep or less, my eyes
| feel tired all day and I'm only half as productive. I've never
| understood why there is such a marked difference between eight
| hours of sleep and almost anything less than eight hours. There's
| something chemically going on inside that I don't understand. The
| problem I'm having now is that I can get a good five or six hours
| but I wake up after that fifth or sixth hour and can't get back
| to sleep long enough to get that ideal eight. This problem is
| seriously affecting my career and I don't know what to do. I do
| do moderate to vigorous exercise five times a week but that
| doesn't always help.
| Tenoke wrote:
| 6 hours of sleep are enough for most people physically and the
| rest is more tiredness than any reduced ability. It's possible
| the other negative effects you are experiencing are mostly
| placebo.
|
| E.g. look at the studies discussed here
| https://guzey.com/theses-on-sleep/
|
| I used to be in the same position and am now better by just not
| worrying about sleeping less or feeling tired when I do.
| bytemilk wrote:
| Get analytical with you sleep. Did you drink caffeine after
| 12pm? Make a log of foods you eat? Are you practicing good
| sleep hygiene? Cortisol levels can cause issues with sleep
| cycles.
| mupuff1234 wrote:
| What's your sleeping environment like?
|
| I find that making sure the room is still fairly dark in the
| morning makes it much easier for me to fall back asleep in case
| i've woken up "too early".
|
| I also started sleeping with earplugs in the last 2 years or so
| to make sure morning city traffic noises don't wake me up.
|
| And lastly, don't reach to the phone to look at the time,
| better have a regular clock which doesn't have all that extra
| stimuli.
| yowlingcat wrote:
| I've found that as I get older if I ingest any remotely
| psychoactive substances (caffeine, alcohol), I'll have
| difficulty getting a full 8 hours of sleep. Same applies with
| stress. The problem is compounded if I'm not exercising
| regularly or if there are any gaps with my nutrition.
| vocram wrote:
| You sounds like me. I'm seasonally suffering of the same
| problem. And AFAICS it doesn't correlate with my sleep hygiene.
|
| What's worse, I feel tired the whole day, but not that much
| anymore towards night.
| dopylitty wrote:
| I have a theory that there are two variables that impact my
| subjective feeling of having a good night's sleep.
|
| The first is whether I wake up at the right part of the sleep
| cycle. For you that might mean 7.75 is when you're deeply
| asleep while 7.5 or 8 might be a better time to wake up.
| Crucially for me it also means even if I get more than eight
| hours I still feel like garbage if I wake up and get out of bed
| at the wrong part of the cycle.
|
| The second variable is how much sleep I get. I might wake up in
| the right part of the cycle but if I got 6.5 hours of sleep I
| start to drag, especially in the afternoon. That's where
| avoiding activities like eating before bed or drinking alcohol
| helps. That's also where doing a 4-5 mile run during the day
| (not too close to bedtime) helps because I'm more likely to
| maintain sleep for a full eight hours.
| jschulenklopper wrote:
| ... in which someone discovers that practical examples of
| physical exercise (walking, running) aren't mentioned in the
| original research paper.
|
| It's a valid observation, but it's then also a critique of making
| scientific research accessible to a general audience. I don't see
| a problem with providing implied examples after citing research
| that didn't mention examples.
| RivieraKid wrote:
| About 10 years ago, I started taking a 1h - 2h walk almost every
| day, before the walk I buy a coffee to go. It's easily the best
| part of my day which I look forward to after waking up.
| stevenwoo wrote:
| So last week there was a thread about a scientist who wrote a
| book: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30381000 and I am
| reading a copy of the book from my local library and it
| actually covers this topic. The relevant part of theory (which
| has been shown to be true for every species they measured with
| doubly labelled water/urine) is that all mammals are calorie
| restrained - there's a maximum amount of calories that can be
| eaten, and there's a maximum amount of calories that can be
| burned, the range for humans is not that big, humans have a
| much higher calorie per weight budget than our ape/monkey
| cousins, the extant hunter gatherer societies exhibit the same
| behavior, and that being inactive like many _modern_ humans
| means we have excess calories to burn with our bodys
| involuntary system like the immune system (one of the hunter
| gatherer societies had high immune system activity because of
| endemic worm /disease infection to use up a lot of calories),
| so the hypothesis is being physically active (up to a point)
| tamps down the activity of involuntary systems that do not need
| to be so active.
| angrais wrote:
| When do you take this walk and how do you spare 1-2h a day? Do
| you have kids?
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| You spare an hour per day for exercise the same way the
| lumberjack must make time to sharpen his axe.
| brandonmenc wrote:
| You can take your kids on the walk.
| rco8786 wrote:
| Im guessing you don't have kids.
| yourabstraction wrote:
| I've long wondered why some people can get by with little or no
| exercise and yet seem to live relatively healthy/happy lives. My
| Mom who's 66 doesn't exercise, other than a little walking, and
| while she's overweight, she always has energy, a good mood, and
| seems really resistant to the negative impacts of stressful
| situations.
|
| On the other hand, If I don't get at least an hour of exercise a
| day, I start to slip into fatigue, anxiety, and depression. I
| usually walk for 1.5 hours a day and hit the gym 3-5 days a week
| for cardio and weight training. Fortunately, I do love being
| active, and I wouldn't want to be more sedentary anyway. I've
| never had the greatest sleep quality (falling/staying asleep
| isn't a problem, deep sleep is), and I wonder if I've just been
| compensating all this time, and those who naturally sleep really
| well can do better with a sedentary life.
| eurekin wrote:
| If you respond well to exercise it might be worth a shot
| checking for tense muscle related causes. Physical exercise
| (esp. heavy weights) might inadvertently work as a relaxation
| technique for tensed muscles (similar to the way PNF works
| [0]).
|
| Some causes for tension I know:
|
| - Neck -- c0 to c2 joint related issues; esp. with the Forward
| Neck Syndrome, can tense neck muscles and cause headaches. It's
| even speculated that this might be a common cause for migraine
| [1]
|
| - Dental. If not everything is aligned in the "zero" position,
| muscles actively work and overwork to compensate. They are
| commonly called Temporomandibular disorders (TMD) [2]
|
| - Eye. Eyestrain can develop, if an eye works too much for too
| long, hunts for focus, it can tense forehead and other facial
| muscles. [3]
|
| and so on, down every joint in the body.
|
| You might have built up some high pain resistance through the
| years and not even be aware this is happening. This can lead to
| physiological stress, which in turn interferes with the deep
| sleep phase (cortisol and other stress hormones keep us half
| awake for scanning the environment for danger).
|
| [0] https://mediphysio.com.au/pnf-stretching-
| technique/#:~:text=....
|
| [1] https://www.caringmedical.com/prolotherapy-news/chronic-
| head....
|
| [2] https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-
| diseas....
|
| [3] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-
| conditions/tmj/symptoms-...
| paulpauper wrote:
| It's called the fitness & health industry, not charity. It's in
| their financial interests to exaggerate or oversell the health
| consequences of not doing exercise. It comes down to genes.
| Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger are both in their 90s and do
| not exercise and have crappy diets yet both are healthy and
| productive. Another example is William Shatner, who is also
| obese and just went to space at 90.
| vocram wrote:
| True, but you won't be able to sustain any moderate physical
| effort later in your life if you never did anything for your
| fitness when younger.
| Tenoke wrote:
| Pointing at outliers doesn't prove anything. They can easily
| be (and likely are) highly atypical genetically, that doesn't
| prove how much exercise helps or doesn't help the average
| person.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| That said, gambling on genetics and luck seems like a dreary
| way to play your one chance at life, even for those of us who
| aren't billionaires.
|
| Most people in the US seem to eat and live like they're
| consciously making that gamble, and the result isn't all that
| seductive when I look around.
|
| Also, living until 90yo+ tells me nothing about your quality
| of life. Is the softbody 25yo happier and more confident and
| more fulfilled than the 25yo who puts some work into their
| body? Is the 40yo without the energy to chase his kids around
| the house happier than the one who can? Are man-tits and a
| limp dick at 50yo the key to happiness that fit people are
| overlooking? etc.
| rajin444 wrote:
| I 100% agree with you and you should take everything the
| fitness industry says with a grain of salt. They lie all the
| time.
|
| That being said, it's possible for both genetically lucky
| people to exist and for people who would greatly benefit from
| exercise to exist.
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