[HN Gopher] Apple Mac Studio ___________________________________________________________________ Apple Mac Studio Author : 0xedb Score : 450 points Date : 2022-03-08 18:59 UTC (4 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.apple.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com) | nanna wrote: | Is it just me or have apple clearly not tested this page on | Android Firefox? | ShamelessC wrote: | You're not alone. | Kalanos wrote: | yes! i have been so worried about my macbook 2014 dying because I | don't want the new macbooks. this looks awesome. | tonguez wrote: | Don't a lot of people want a computer in the 1000-2000$ range? | The average person who wants to do video editing on an M1 mac | just wants >=32GB of RAM. The only way to get that is to shell | out $2000+. | | M1 Mac Mini with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD for $1100 | | M1 Max Mac Studio with 32GB RM and 512GB SSD for $2000 | | Yeah because nobody ever buys a computer that costs between $1000 | and $2000... ? | | A 512GB SSD in a $2k computer? People who deal with HD video are | going to want at least 1TB right? So it basically starts at | $2200? | | Is Apple going to release anything anytime soon for the | young/not-rich kids who want to do real video editing (need | >=32GB RAM)? | borodi wrote: | I imagine the mac pro is going to have a Super Sayan M1 | livinglist wrote: | can't wait for M1 Ultra Pro Max Utimate | aetherspawn wrote: | It would be nice if it was rack mountable. | gbrown_ wrote: | Can't wait to see a teardown of the cooling solution. Not sure | how the air flows between the bottom and the heat sink as there's | a board between them. | rovr138 wrote: | It looked like it had space in the back and then the blowers | were in the front to force the air over. Then it went out the | top. | | Looks very interesting. I'm curious of benchmarks and if | there's throttling. | greendave wrote: | Nice machine, but for all the lip service to sustainability and | environmental friendliness, the insistence of soldering | everything in makes for a disposable device. In particular, once | the SSD goes, it's just a very expensive brick. | GeekyBear wrote: | Interesting tweet from Hector Martin, who is leading the Linux | port: | | >Chances are our kernel will Just work on M1 Ultra with just | device tree changes, might not even need any m1n1 changes. | | https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1501271229763706882 | speed_spread wrote: | Good. None of these releases matter to me if all those machines | can run is Mac OS. I'm not a Linux freak, but I like machines | that last a long time. Long term support is the weak spot of | any proprietary design. Given the incredible hardware | capabilities of these new boxes, the 5 or 6 years official | expected official lifecycle is waaay too short. | jazzyjackson wrote: | Latest MacOS is supported by Mac Pro from 9 years ago, that's | pretty good. Macbook Pro from 7 years ago. These M1 machines | are the new baseline, I wouldn't be surprised if they're | supported a decade from now, it's not like MacOS is going to | need 10x the CPU/RAM to run in 2032 _knock on wood_ | | https://www.apple.com/macos/monterey/ (have to scroll all the | way down for supported devices) | humanwhosits wrote: | But chrome will | mrcwinn wrote: | If anyone thinks Apple is not very serious about AR/VR consumer | products, their renewed focus on creative professionals, intense | workloads, and GPU performance seems to suggest otherwise. | | Whatever the marketing out of Microsoft Surface, it's the Mac | that has always enabled creative workflows. I'm genuinely more | excited about the Mac than any other product, which I haven't | felt or said for many years. | | Nice work, Apple silicon and hardware teams! | boboguitar wrote: | Can I build my large xcode project in less than 20 minutes with | this? | kulix425 wrote: | jsz0 wrote: | Apple finally releases a powerful affordable desktop computer. | Now I am worried it's the start of WW3 or otherwise the end of | the world. Going outside now to look for flying pigs | randcraw wrote: | What? $2000 for the Studio plus $1600 for their 5K display | means Apple's new entry level workstation now costs $3600. | That's a LOT more expensive than the old iMac 27 i7 at about | $2400. | | To sum up, Apple just hiked their entry level workstation's | price by $1200. AND they convinced you they performed magic. | | No, I think that flying pig you saw was proof that Jobs' | reality distortion field is still alive and well. | mkaic wrote: | Except you don't have to buy their display, that's part of | why the Studio is so nice. You can buy any generic display | you want that doesn't cost 1600 bucks. For what you get, the | 2k Studio is an absolute steal in terms of compute per watt, | I/O, form factor, and longevity (Macs last _ages_ ). Plus, | having 64 gigs of VRAM is absolutely amazing at that price | point. | cube2222 wrote: | Looks like all the people saying "just start fusing those M1 | CPU's into bigger ones" were right, that's basically what they | did for the top of the line new M1 CPU (fused two M1 Max'es | together). | | And since the presenter mentioned the Mac Pro would come on | another day, I wonder if they'll just do 4x M1 Max for that. | jws wrote: | The dialog around unveiling the Ultra had a "one final member | of M1" vibe to it. I think that is the end for M1. The next cpu | bumps will be M2s. | | Also I wonder about fabrication nodes. The iPhone SE is going | to take a _lot_ of dies and keep that fan very busy. M1 is on | something else, but it isn't going to free the A15 fab for | other customers. | | I expect M2 is on a different process. | GeekyBear wrote: | An entry level M2 has been showing up in software developers | logs. | | 4 big cores, 4 little cores (like the M1, but based on newer | gen iPhone cores) and 10 GPU cores instead of 8. Said to be | based on TSMC 4nm. | Someone wrote: | > and keep that fan very busy | | The wonders of auto-correct, I guess. It took me a moment to | correct that to _"and keep that faB very busy"_. | | _"faN"_ made me wonder why you thought that phone ran hot | and had a fan. | [deleted] | quirino wrote: | If they do create another chip for the Mac Pro, I wonder what | they'll call it. | | We have the M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max and M1 Ultra so far. | cehrlich wrote: | Pro, Max, Ultra, Mega? | nameless912 wrote: | There's a New Nintendo 23DSLite iXL[1] joke in here | somewhere. | | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4MHRcPLr38 | [deleted] | minimaxir wrote: | M1 Plus Ultra. | | Just go full anime. | dilap wrote: | M1 Ultra Pro, baby | moooo99 wrote: | When handing over to the M1 Ultra part of the keynote he | literally said something along the lines of "we're adding | this last M1 chip to our lineup". So maybe an upcoming Mac | Pro will have the next generation of Apple Silicon (M2). | | I am curious to see how that device will look like. | Surprisingly, with the last Mac Pro the modularity of the | device and the ability to user-upgrade GPU, RAM or storage | was actually a huge selling point that Apple emphasized. I | can't imagine how this would work with Apple Silicon. | nicoburns wrote: | Maybe it won't be M at all? I still reckon they might do | discrete GPUs for the pro model, which could make it quite | different to the other M chips. | pg_bot wrote: | Mega, Supra, Domina, Prima, Stellar, Noto, Nova, Jumbo. | can16358p wrote: | M1 Epic (late 2022) | | M1 Ludicrous (early 2023) | | M1 Insane (late 2023) | | Probably they'll make enough changes to release M2 by that | time. | mkaic wrote: | M1 Maximum Plaid (late early 2024) | doctor_eval wrote: | You missed M1 Plaid. | eyelidlessness wrote: | I'm surprised they've introduced four M1 variants already, | and while that makes a fifth variant seem more likely... I | still think they'll want to find another way to differentiate | the new Mac Pro. What seems more likely to me: the M2 MBA is | released either in tandem with a M2 Ultra MP, or a few months | ahead of it, and the other higher spec models will lag 6-12 | months behind from then on. Especially given the significant | delays on M1 Max, it makes sense to me they'll want to roll | out the next gen in a lower volume/higher margin while they | ramp up production. | nojito wrote: | M1 Ultra Max | hughrr wrote: | Reminds me of this from Minions: https://youtu.be/Xs4LF8QnELM | | At least it's less confusing than the fucked up Intel and AMD | product numbers. | speed_spread wrote: | M1 Double Plus Good | deadcore wrote: | Holding out for the M1 Ultra Magnum Turbo | Toutouxc wrote: | M1 Hammersword Despacito. | [deleted] | unfocussed_mike wrote: | I think the Mac Pro is almost like a phantom product at this | point. Or a riff. Like they're going to say "the new Mac Pro is | there is no more Mac Pro". | | What can they really do, in a single machine, that is more | "Pro" than the Studio? How are they going to bring developers | along when most aren't developing for twenty-core machines? | | I still think something else is coming. Maybe something | unconventionally stackable. Something for render farms. | | Whatever it is, it feels like it's going to need novel OS | support. | bredren wrote: | It has been a phantom product, because Apple has needed to | fill major gaps in the desktop space first. | | I suspect Apple is set to debut powerful revision to the Mac | Pro focused on AI/ML at WWDC. | | I wrote about this 10 months back[0], and it still applies | following Studio: | | > It may not be obvious, but Apple has repair work to do in | the pro community. Four years ago this month, Apple unusually | disclosed that it was "completely rethinking the Mac Pro." | [1] | | > The current Mac Pro design wasn't announced until June of | 2019 and didn't hit the market until December 10th of 2019. | That's just _six months_ prior to the Apple Silicon | announcement. | | > It seems unlikely Apple spent 2017-2019 designing a Mac Pro | that they would not carry forward with Apple Silicon | hardware. | | > The current, Gen 3 2019 Mac Pro design has the Mac Pro | Expansion Module (MPX). This is intended to be a plug-and- | play system for graphics and storage upgrades. [2] | | > While the Apple Silicon SoC can run with some GPU tasks, it | does seem it does not make sense for the type of work that | big discrete cards have generally been deployed for. | | > There is already a living example of a custom Apple- | designed external graphics card. Apple designed and released | Afterburner, a custom "accelerator" card targeted at video | editing with the gen 3 Mac Pro in 2019. | | > Afterburner has attributes of the new Apple Silicon design | in that it is proprietary to Apple and fanless. [3] | | > It seems implausible Apple created the Afterburner product | for a single release without plans to continue to upgrade and | extend the product concept using Apple Silicon. | | Given "Ultrafusion" it seems plausible that M2 would be able | connect multiple custom SoCs that are littered with GPU cores | as stackable accelerator cards. | | > So, I think the question isn't if discrete Apple Silicon | GPUs will be supported but how many types and in and what | configurations. | | This prediction not come to pass: | | > I think the Mac Mini will remain its shape and size, and | that alongside internal discrete GPUs for the Pro, Apple may | release something akin to the Blackmagic eGPU products they | collaborated on for the RX580 and Vega 56. | | But at least the mid market display now exists. > While | possibly not big sellers, Apple Silicon eGPUs would serve | generations of new AS notebooks and minis. This creates a | whole additional use case. The biggest problem I see with | this being a cohesive ecosystem is the lack of a mid-market | Apple display. [4] | | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26956886 | | [1] https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives | | [2] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/apple-unveils- | powerfu... | | [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33ywFqY5o1E | | [4] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/wishful-thinking- | wwdc-d... | unfocussed_mike wrote: | > It seems unlikely Apple spent 2017-2019 designing a Mac | Pro that they would not carry forward with Apple Silicon | hardware. | | I am really not sure about this bit, as you can probably | deduce from what I've said elsewhere. | | The rest is interesting but I think it's entirely possible | they designed a tail-end tower PC to sell for three years. | valine wrote: | New die with 64 M1 cores and support for 4TB of ram. | Basically fill whatever market the threadripper fills. | cududa wrote: | They literally said in the keynote that the new Mac Pro is in | the pipeline | unfocussed_mike wrote: | Right, but the keynote is marketing. And they've been | saying that for, what, nearly a decade now? [0] And in that | time they have chipped away at that segment from different | directions, with the iMac Pro and the Mac Studio. The | latter of which is a _beast_ already. | | What's left? Render farms, scaleable computing. | | I guess I think there will be some sort of new machine in | that segment. But I figure it's not going to be what people | expect from a single, unitary Mac Pro desktop. | | Because once you're up at that level of performance | requirement, you start to want modular and scaleable | things. | | What is the pitch for the part of the market that is used | to using commodity hardware in scaleable configurations? | | [0] Edit: I obviously forgot the cheese grater | yurishimo wrote: | They released a new Mac Pro in 2019. I think there is a | strong possibility for a revision late this year or next | year. | unfocussed_mike wrote: | OK but to what end? | | Looking at the Mac Studio... what would an M1-based, | drop-in Mac Pro replacement offer on top? That sounds | like a tail-end product. | | It's not like 2022 Apple is the kind of business that | announces deep partnerships with graphics card makers. | | It feels more to me like we're going to see either | something that is half-rack-half-Mac, or something with | major developments in neural engine hardware, or | something. | | A new segment -- something that is going to need | significant new OS work. | cududa wrote: | CGI, CAD, rendering, driving huge screens, running live | sporting events, scientific workloads, massive | simultaneous automated app testing, etc. Just because you | can't imagine why someone would need that much compute | doesn't mean the use cases don't exist. | unfocussed_mike wrote: | I did not say -- at all -- that I can't imagine that kind | of power requirement. | | Not at all. | | What I said if you read the rest of my comments is that I | find it difficult to believe there is a specifically | _single-desktop-machine_ use case for that kind of power | over and above the Mac Studio. | | The reason I mention this is that high end (TV and | cinema) CGI just is not the domain of single machines | anymore; it's the domain of render farms. The people who | do that kind of work for TV and cinema now expect to run | farms of commodity hardware that can be swapped out and | replaced. And that technology is available to everyone in | a way that can be constructed more pragmatically. | | Scientific workloads, similarly: most of that market is | not going to spend a bucketload on a single Mac when they | can spread their risk with cluster computing. | | App testing: again, an application for clustering, and | low cost hardware spreads risk. | | So my point, again: given the existence of the iMac Pro | line, and the M1 Ultra Mac Studio (with its evident | astonishing GPU performance), given that I imagine most | Mac Pro users never put an expansion card in their | machines (which is the grand theme of Apple -- people | don't upgrade or expand, usually), and given that cluster | hardware is commonly in use and well-supported, is the | niche for single mega-expensive desktops _really_ big | enough? | | I don't think it is -- you think it is. But I think you | can disagree with me without imagining me stupid, as I | disagree with you without doing the same. | cududa wrote: | The real-time rendering demos of the Studio were | incredible. If the pro is 4x that it would be insanely | cool. If I were still doing music videos I'd kill to have | one of those on set. Or what we did for Kanye's Yeezus | tour (live motion tracking of the dancers with some | kinects and putting them into models projected on the | screen) - could've been so much cooler with this much | compute in a small box. You're talking about this as if | you have knowledge from working in an industry that you | clearly haven't. $100,000 fragile rack or $8,000 shoe box | you can drop and it'll still work fine. | | The visual arts this thing is going to enable us going to | be amazing, and we haven't even seen the Pro yet. One | former client has been texting me all day about ideas | from 10 years ago that weren't feasible but now are with | this lil thing. I keep telling him to wait for the Pro | then we can take some REALLY neat ideas off the shelf. | unfocussed_mike wrote: | > I keep telling him to wait for the Pro then we can take | some REALLY neat ideas off the shelf. | | Aside from the fact that you're making my point for me -- | you think the Mac Studio could do the job you imagine a | Mac Pro doing -- there is this: | | You tell your former customers to wait for an unreleased, | as yet unscheduled update to a product to which | historically Apple has displayed considerable, time- | insensitive indifference, rather than order maybe | multiples of the product that _has_ been announced, or | try to make it work somehow with kit that exists? | | I'll note down your prediction about $8000. That, I | guess, would be interesting. But if it's that cheap it's | going to be after the chip shortage is over, surely. | karlshea wrote: | > And they've been saying that for, what, nearly a decade | now? | | The latest generation is from 2019? | unfocussed_mike wrote: | I guess. I mean, it's a forgettable stopgap machine (I | forgot it ;-) It's not really what people wanted, is it? | It's just something they had to put on sale to shut | people up. A conventional, Intel-era thing. | | They've been saying "something really great is coming", | all that. That Mac Pro was not that. | | Does Apple still care about the market that wants to plug | in internal GPU cards? Does that make much sense even in | the context of hardware the speed of the Mac Studio? | | I wonder. | cududa wrote: | If their GPU can do workloads replaceable ones can't then | it's worth it. If you need that amount of GPU, you're | doing high end shit with a high end budget, and can | afford to just replace the machine in 2 years (if you | even need it - many people stick with their Mac Pro 5-10 | years). | | Tons of people in pro industries bought it and love it. | Pre-COVID it was sold out for almost a year. Every | professional music producer I know bought one, and I'm | sure they'll get the M1 Mac Pro. | | Funny story. Max Martin partnered with Creative to make a | new audio rack to enable the audio for the first Back | Street Boys album. That got miniaturized to audio cards | for gaming which further shrunk down to a DAC and that | lead to the iPod which lead to the iPhone which lead to | Apple Silicon which brought us here today. Music | producers are huge fucking tech nerds and literally move | technology forward. Apple frequently works with producers | when developing their highest end products that | eventually trickle down to consumer grade. | karlshea wrote: | What? It's a whole new tower with PCIe slots and | everything, and was super well received. Were you still | under the impression they were selling the trashcan Mac | Pro? | unfocussed_mike wrote: | I simply forgot that they made it. I forgot a lot of | stuff in 2020 and 2021, like most people. | | But by extension I certainly _don 't_ remember it being | "super well received", or I'd probably have remembered it | at all. | | Either way: look at it. It's a tower PC. Do you think the | current Apple trajectory has any meaningful room for | that? What are people going to really be putting in it | except disks? | cpuguy83 wrote: | "I forgot about it so it must not be great". | | It's an amazing machine. It's an incredibly expensive | machine, but still amazing. | | > Do you think the current Apple trajectory has any | meaningful room for that? | | Are you upset that you think Apple is going to stop | making something that you forgot they made, except there | is absolutely 0 evidence that they will stop making it? | We know for a fact that they are going to release a new | Apple Silicon based Mac Pro. We knew Mac Pro would be the | last thing they move over to Apple Silicon. Apple even | gave a timeline when they first launched M1, and so far | it seems to be on track. | | Apple has been extremely pragmatic lately, backtracking | on objectively bad decisions around everything from | keyboards and ports to form factors. | fastball wrote: | They've been very pragmatic ever since Jony Ive left. | unfocussed_mike wrote: | > "I forgot about it so it must not be great". | | I didn't phrase it that way, but thanks, I guess. | Whatever. | | > Are you upset that you think Apple is going to stop | making something that you forgot they made, except there | is absolutely 0 evidence that they will stop making it? | | I didn't say they'd stop making it, quite. | | So much as that I think the product designation is a | phantom, in a way. And the more alternatives they add to | the Mac Pro, the less the market needs it. | | How many people who bought the forgettable machine put an | expansion card in it, do you think? How many of those | people thus simply do not need anything more than the | Studio? | | And also: how many third party manufacturers are going to | rush out of the gate to port their drivers to some | complex new multiprocessing M1 machine? | | I agree they have been pragmatic. But I think they've | also sliced and diced this segment to the point where it | doesn't make the sense it did. | karlshea wrote: | If all you want is disks then the Mac Studio seems to be | exactly what you'd want. I would assume people that want | a tower want exactly what you were asking for above, | which is GPUs or other cards like audio engineers need. | | I didn't see a single negative review of the tower at | all, so I'm really not sure where that comes from. And | they said during the keynote today a new one is coming. | kiratp wrote: | Here is the target market | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIQINCWMd6I | | This is Apple's core creative audience. | [deleted] | the_lucifer wrote: | > What can they really do, in a single machine, that is more | "Pro" than the Studio? | | I'm guessing the Mac Pro will focus more on Upgradability and | adding expansion slots? That seems like a direction Apple is | willing to go tbh. | rovr138 wrote: | I'm just curious how that would look like and what would be | compatible. | | Seems interesting! | unfocussed_mike wrote: | Why does it need expansion slots? Is that still a thing? | :-) | | Drive bays, yeah. Maybe some approach towards coprocessor | boards. | | But none of this new direction shrieks out "install your | own graphics card" anymore. | kiratp wrote: | This is one of the reasons why - pro audio - | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIQINCWMd6I | pvarangot wrote: | There's USB-C MADI/DANTE stuff already and it handles a | lot of bandwidth with similar latency to those PCIe | cards. That guys setup is a niche in the niche. | rovr138 wrote: | Yeah. I'm wondering about network cards for some higher | throughput setups. | andjd wrote: | Agreed. | | They showed it being used for pro audio, but that's a niche | that still uses expansion cards a lot. Keeping the current | mac pro form factor enables a lot of niche use cases. | | One question is whether the M1 chips have enough | connectivity to efficiently handle as many expansion cards | as the current pro. Even the Max version of the CPU is | limited to 4 thunderbolt ports. | andrewjl wrote: | Connecting additional devices was the second thing talked | about in the introduction, after power & performance. If | anything, the focus on upgradability is growing. | | And I bet the Studio is a way to release what they've done | so far to serve a subset of the Pro market that has simpler | expansion needs. The Pro likely requires a ton more work. | sid-ant wrote: | Apple claims M1 Ultra is faster than 28 Core Intel Xeon W chip, | which they ship in Mac Pro. If that's true, then Mac Studio is an | excellent value. | | Mac Pro with 28 Core, 96GB RAM, 1TB SSD = $14,199 | | Mac Studio with M1 Ultra (48GPU Cores), 128GB RAM, 1TB SSD = | $4,800 | | Also it looks like they compared their CPU performance with the | latest intel generation in their demo. | | > "16-core PC desktop CPU performance data from testing Core | i9-12900K with DDR5 memory" https://www.apple.com/mac- | studio/#footnote | | It's kinda scary how monster of a company Apple has become | lately. Their product line-up in compute is now unmatched. | rconti wrote: | Perfect. Recently went to a 40" ultrawide display to share | between work laptop (during work hours) and personal desktop | (after hours) to simplify my desk, and felt the Mini was probably | just a little too limiting/low-end. | | Finally, the replacement to my 2015 iMac 5k. | londons_explore wrote: | So it has USB-C... yet can't be powered via USB-C? | [deleted] | [deleted] | torginus wrote: | As a dev, I think this is neat - but unfortunately, to this very | day, the most important workloads usually are single-threaded, | even the ones that are multi-threaded, rarely scale to more than | 8 cores. | | This usually means that the advanced M1 variants don't really | offer an advantage over the base offering, although, more RAM is | always nice. | srvmshr wrote: | I am genuinely crestfallen that there was no update to Mac Mini. | That thing has the right balance for most computer science folks | who want a Mac. Not everyone needs/runs a silicon Godzilla on | their desk after all. | | As of the current lineup, Mini is still stuck with 16 GB RAM and | a disappointing number of ports. | BonoboIO wrote: | Apple M1 | 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine, 16GB | RAM, 10Gbit LAN = 899$ | | Apple Studio | 20-Core CPU, 48-Core GPU, 32-Core Neural Engine! | 64GB RAM! 10Gbit LAN = 3999$ | | I think the M1 is a nice product for 95% of people including | iOS Devs. | | Silent, ,,cheap", cost effective, nice build server. If you | need more power ... well get the small studio or buy another | one. | | Renting from hetzner is also cheap. 49EUR with really unlimited | bandwith. 20 TB traffic in a month? No problem, nobody cares. | | https://www.hetzner.com/de/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-apple | thaw13579 wrote: | There's only a gap of roughly $500 between a maxed out mini and | the entry studio, so perhaps the studio is the answer to what | you're looking for? | tonguez wrote: | M1 mini with 16GB RAM (most possible RAM): $1100 | | entry studio: $2000 | | That's a pretty big gap. Basically it means you have to shell | out $2000+ if you want to do video editing on any M1 mac. | Buying a brand new computer to do video editing that has only | 16GB RAM in 2022 is unjustifiable. | | $2k+ is too much for most people especially young "creatives" | that are making entertainment (videos). Lots of people here | make hundreds of thousands a year but none of those people | make that money doing video editing or working in | entertainment. | thaw13579 wrote: | Maybe it's too much to expect a $1K computer to do heavy | video work? Even then, I've been using an M1 macbook air | myself for computational work, and haven't run into any | memory issues and am surprised by how much power it | provides for the price, and without a fan. The only issue | I've had with the M1s is the display support, i.e. the mini | only supports two displays and the macbooks only support a | single external display. | srvmshr wrote: | Thats sounding more like being an Apple apologist. And | there are certainly other uses of graphics without using | PS or InDesign involved e.g Meshlab 3D renders, computer | graphics & raytracing where more RAM definitely counts. | Upselling the Studio definitely hits the academic bracket | (mine) hard, when it was perfectly possible to just | introduce M1 variants, with its advantage of ports & more | RAM. That sort of upgrade would have cost ~$1500 | theoretically given Apple component listing, which is | still 25% cheaper than baseline Mac Studio. | | (For students looking to upgrade, $400 is a month's rent | saved) | CharlesW wrote: | > _Basically it means you have to shell out $2000+ if you | want to do video editing on any M1 mac._ | | 16GB is plenty, and in fact the conversation when the M1 | Macs were introduced was whether having 16GB vs. 8GB of RAM | made a difference. (Mostly, it doesn't.) | | https://www.4kshooters.net/2021/01/27/8gb-or-16gb-ram-for- | vi... | jazzyjackson wrote: | > 16GB RAM in 2022 is unjustifiable. | | MacOS on ARM handles memory differently, try it you might | like it. | | They can only print so many M1max chips at a time, they | want to sell them in a high margin machine. Give em a year | and the M1max will trickle down to the mini. | tonguez wrote: | "MacOS on ARM handles memory differently, try it you | might like it." | | Wow, you sure have given me a lot to think about. | jazzyjackson wrote: | lol, if you're being sarcastic all I can say is I don't | get a commission | srvmshr wrote: | > MacOS on ARM handles memory differently, try it you | might like it. | | I already use the 16 GB 13". And while your comment is | correct for most consumer applications regarding memory | compression, it may not work that well in numerical | computing on Python or C++ e.g. where a lot of RNGs are | used or 2D/3D arrays are juggled. Just clarifying. Your | statement is mostly true - but not always. Having a | higher RAM machine could help definitely. | digisign wrote: | 16GB RAM was a ridiculous amount for hobby needs, just a | short time ago. | | If you have pro needs, step up to the pro machine. $2k is | paltry in this inflationary environment. Will pay for | itself in productivity forthwith. | [deleted] | xienze wrote: | What update were they going to do? Make an M1 Max model? That | would cut into sales for the base Studio. | infinityio wrote: | They don't have a desktop M1 Pro implementation yet afaik? | dopu wrote: | This would make sense -- you can get the mac mini at the | base M1, upgrade it to an M1 Pro, or jump up to a Mac | Studio for M1 Max and above. | [deleted] | heartbreak wrote: | > Not everyone needs/runs a silicon Godzilla | | Right, which is why the Mini exists. | | > Mini is still stuck with 16 GB RAM and a disappointing number | of ports. | | Because people who need more are expected to buy the Studio. | yurishimo wrote: | WWDC is a few months away. There might be a refresh of the Mini | there? If we don't see a refresh of the mini this year, I can't | see them not upgrading it for M2 next year. | dopu wrote: | I initially thought the Mac Studio was the "pro" version of the | Mac Mini. But no -- they're still selling the i5/i7 mini. This | makes me wonder whether they're going to update it at all. | Maybe they'll just quietly drop it at some point down the road? | Havoc wrote: | Easily the most obnoxious scroll/parallax presentation I've seen | thus far 2022. | | Guess I'll watch to mkhb video to see what the product is | QuikAccount wrote: | This is such a random thing to complain about but I hate these | Mac product pages with the animations as you scroll. I guess they | are designed for mobile but I navigate them on a desktop using a | mouse wheel and they always look super clunky. | dmitriid wrote: | They used to be quick and smooth on the desktop, too. But it | looks like Apple has been taken over by designers in the name | only. | MBCook wrote: | Apple does them FAR better than anyone else. I can't remember | if they did it first, or just popularized it, but it works well | for what it is. | | That said, while it looks cool, after the first time you've | used it it's just a pain to navigate. I kind of wish it was a | separate "intro" page or something. | | (They're annoying on mobile too, but work better than desktop) | gowld wrote: | It's terrible on mobile too. | scrumbledober wrote: | the first time they did it i was like wow apple is so good at | this stuff this is really cool. It's gotten very old and | annoying. | adrianmonk wrote: | It's like going to the library but someone has hired dancing | cheerleaders to grab the book you're trying to read and wave it | around so that you're more excited about reading it. | wmeredith wrote: | I'm going to use this example in my next usability review | meeting. It's perfect. | cwdegidio wrote: | Yeah, I don't get it. They are such a UX nightmare. My company | was trying to implement something like that in our latest | redesign of our site and I put my foot down about it. We are in | the financial B2B space and I had to explain to the marketing | team that people come to our site for information... not to be | shown cute animation. Also (I haven't tested Apples take on | it), they are often ADA nightmares. | kube-system wrote: | Mouse wheels mostly just don't have a good input resolution. | It's one of the main reasons I stopped using a mouse and | switched to an apple trackpad full time. I can't stand static | pages that scroll in chunks either. | dilap wrote: | it sucks w/ trackpad too tho! it's just totally breaks any | physicality to scrolling | | it's insane to me that they keep using this | cosmiccatnap wrote: | simonjgreen wrote: | This gives me distinct G4 Mac Pro tower aesthetic vibes but with | a modern twist. Love it :) | andjd wrote: | I'm really happy they're not going with a iMac pro form factor | for these. Having a separate display and computer is great for | avoiding e-waste. There are a ton of iMacs out there that have | obsolete hardware but a screen that still works great. | wmeredith wrote: | I died inside when they got rid of target display mode for | iMacs. | rsynnott wrote: | This was initially kinda justifiable; when the first 5K iMac | came out there was no commonly available connection that | could do 5K (the iMac used a somewhat overclocked DP link | internally, I think), so their only option would have been | two DP cables (a configuration that then also had very | limited support). | | That excuse really went away with TB3 and newer iterations of | DP, tho, and it's pretty disappointing that they didn't bring | it back at that point. | infinityio wrote: | I've seen projects online about converting 5k iMacs into | external displays by essentially ripping out the insides and | putting in a driver board instead - I wonder what the | relative cost (/value proposition) of that is compared to | these new displays if you don't need a webcam? | vbezhenar wrote: | It's ugly. And I love it. No more obsession over form. | pipeline_peak wrote: | I don't even care about the specs. | | Just love the fact they fit it all in that tiny case, flush under | a Studio display monitor. | | There's something 90s about it, SGI maybe? | robotresearcher wrote: | Sun SPARCstation IPC: a lovely form factor and a great client | machine. The matching monitor could sit on top. The whining | fans were not so great. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARCstation_IPC | | It was quickly obsolete as CPUs got fast and too hot for that | box. | w-m wrote: | The amount of compute paired with the shared memory and fast | bandwidth would make this an awesome fit for machine learning. | But for PyTorch, the framework everybody is using now at least in | computer vision, there seems to be no support at all for the GPU | or the neural cores (which the presentation went on and on | about). | | I guess I'd better not hold my breath about support there, given | Apples historical stance on support third party APIs/frameworks? | bogwog wrote: | The 2TB option is an extra $400. That's $200/TB. The 4TB option | is $250/TB. The 8TB option is $275/TB. | | That looks like planned obsolescence to me. A customer with 1TB | will likely want to upgrade sooner than a customer with 8TB, so | this pricing strategy discourages people from buying the more | future-proof options. Other SSDs on the market tend to be cheaper | per TB as you go up in size, but Apple's seem to be completely | backwards (and obscenely overpriced, of course). | | Or am I being too cynical here, and this is just that famous | "luxury tax"? | kube-system wrote: | "Options" are a popular marketing scheme to have your customers | with deep pockets subsidize a lower starting price at the | bottom end while keeping the same overall margin. Doesn't | matter if you're Works the same way whether you're buying a | Mac, buying SaaS software, or buying a car. | | Apple does use very good quality SSDs, so I would expect them | to be premium priced regardless. | exhilaration wrote: | I would argue that the professionals they're targeting are | storing terabytes of assets on network-attached storage, not on | the local machine. | cehrlich wrote: | Depends on what you compare it to. | | A basic 8TB SSD is about $500, but it's also more than 10x | slower than what's in the Mac. A fast 8TB SSD from Sabrent, | which is still slower than what's in the Mac, is about $1800. | | Of course not everyone needs a blazing fast SSD for all their | stuff. But that's why it has USB ports in the back. | andrewmcwatters wrote: | A lot of professionals use external drives for their work, and | Apple has the right of charging beyond market value per TB of | storage because the space is integrated, so you'll find that | most people will purchase on-the-curve storage and rely on | high-performance commodity drives for day-to-day artifacts and | asset work. | my123 wrote: | Those are desktops, and Thunderbolt/USB 4 allows for fast SSDs. | You can have the OS installed on an external drive too. | | It's much less of an issue there than on laptops. | kayodelycaon wrote: | That seems pretty typical for Apple. Upgrading from 512gb to | 1tb on a MacBook Air is $200. | turdnagel wrote: | I've never heard of an accusation of planned obsolescence based | on price before. | | > A customer with 1TB will likely want to upgrade sooner | | Though I have no data to back it up, I think this is your | mistaken assumption. I think it's much more likely that people | upgrade because of CPU/RAM than disk space. | mynameisvlad wrote: | I think from a design perspective, this is the most disappointing | Apple release so far. It's just way too tall, imo. There's a lot | of empty space on the front which just seems odd. | | I'm not exactly sure what they could've done to keep the Mac Mini | footprint, but this ain't it. | yurishimo wrote: | I'm convinced the design is a tradeoff to make this work in the | datacenter. With the exact same footprint, racks of Mac Mini | servers can be converted to fit these with very little effort. | mynameisvlad wrote: | Unfortunately, the height (3.7") is _just_ above a 2U (3.5 ") | rack. It's also not a multiple of a Mac Mini height (1.4") | which means you'll have some leftover space if you're | replacing 3 Minis with one of these. | MBCook wrote: | But most rack mounted Mac minis seem to be placed on their | sides with space between each individual machine. Perhaps | it still works in that orientation, just fewer per rack? | yurishimo wrote: | Yeah, this was my thought as well. | mynameisvlad wrote: | I was thinking that as well, but I believe they still use | some sort of support to keep them propped in place, so | not being an exact multiple means modifying them would be | harder than, for instance, just cutting some of the | vertical supports off to fit a 3xMini. | NorwegianDude wrote: | In...datacenters? That's a strange usecase! | yurishimo wrote: | https://www.macstadium.com/datacenters | | If you scroll to the bottom of this page, there is an image | carousel with an example. | NorwegianDude wrote: | But why would anyone do that? IO is very limited, memory | on the m1/mini doesn't support ECC from what I know, and | repairs/parts/redundancy is terrible. | | I can understand it if it's just for fun, but otherwise | it seems like a really strange idea. | yurishimo wrote: | It's one of the only sane form factors available if you | need off-site compute power running on MacOS. The rack | mount Mac Pro helped to fill that niche somewhat, but | they're just insanely expensive. | | Amazon has dedicated Mac hardware in AWS as well and the | pricing is also crazy expensive. | | For large app devs though, the cost is worth it to build | their apps in the cloud without bogging down their local | machines constantly. If you have rebuild targets for a | half dozen OS versions, it can add up! | | Datacenters are the solution and the Mac Mini just so | happened to be the form factor that was available and | could be made to work with less hassle than accommodating | laptops. | minimaxir wrote: | From the presentation, the _entire top half_ is the thermal | system so can 't really put I/O there. | mynameisvlad wrote: | Maybe extending the grill all the way around with some other | design changes to make it feel fresh, and not just a taller | Mac Mini? | rovr138 wrote: | You also have to consider thermals and how the air would | flow over components. | | It's not just as simple as adding more holes | mynameisvlad wrote: | Fake grills have existed for years. More airflow is | _usually_ , but not always, better. | | All I'm saying is the current design doesn't look good to | me, and some more work could've been done to not just | make it look like a weird, tall Mac Mini. | abraae wrote: | > All I'm saying is the current design doesn't look good | to me | | That's not what you said. Here's what you actually said, | which is ridiculously hyberbolic, hence this discussion. | | > I think from a design perspective, this is the most | disappointing Apple release so far. | mynameisvlad wrote: | Yes, that's called an _opinion_. I think the design doesn | 't look good, I think it's the most disappointed I have | been with hardware design from Apple, and made my | disappointment known. It even starts with "I think". | | What, exactly, is your issue with someone posting their | opinion? | jazzyjackson wrote: | Agreed, they should have gone for cube proportions. I'm sure | someone will come out with a NAS that has the right height to | bring it back into harmony. | hughrr wrote: | This is actually really cheap. Maxed out at PS7999 is less than | half the price of an HP Z with similar numbers configured in | which it probably can't even get near the mac. | | And it doesn't need $1000 wheels. | jeffbee wrote: | $8100 for a 20-core, 128GB, 8TB, 2x10ge, 2xTB3 BTO config of a | HP Z6 G4. You get more expandability but fewer and slower TB | ports, random graphics, and a much slower CPU, also a different | operating system. Z workstations won't be competitive for | people who can choose macOS until they refresh them with a | newer Xeon. On the other hand, Mac won't be competitive for | people who require ECC or Windows or Linux. | | https://zworkstations.com/configurations/2944242/ | hughrr wrote: | Stick two bigger GPUs in it to drive multiple 4k screens. | | But yes no ECC. Linux arm64 works on my M1 Pro in UTM using | native virtualisation. And it's fast as anything. | tonguez wrote: | It's not cheap for the type of people who would actually want | this the most (people working in entertainment, young | "creatives", etc). The trust fund children depicted in the | keynote who have $50k of A/V equipment in their room bear no | resemblance to actual people living in the real world instead | of some weird ivory tower of wealth. | | It's like a commercial for a fragrance where someone in a suit | is rolling around in the middle of a field. It makes no sense | except to delusional rich people like Tim Cook. | hughrr wrote: | I don't think you have worked in typical big city media | companies... | criddell wrote: | It's cheap for what it is. If you need a machine like this, | then what else could you buy? | | The Studio starts at $2k. If you are going to use it for the | next 4 years, that's less than $1.50 / day. No trust fund | required. | schleck8 wrote: | 32 GB of unspecified frequency ram? 512 GB of unspecified | speed and type ssd? | | That's not a 2000 dollar configuration. For reference, that | memory capacity costs 120 euros with 3200 Mhz | geraneum wrote: | That 32 GB is not a typical stick. It's a unified memory | on SoC like how it is in smartphones. It affects | performance significantly. You can read more about how | they work and how they are different here: | | https://www.howtogeek.com/701804/how-unified-memory- | speeds-u... | | Also it was mentioned, if I'm not mistaken, that the SSD | has 7.5 Gb/s read, which is actually pretty good. | [deleted] | forgotmyoldacc wrote: | My workstation build with Epyc is ~$5,000 and has more cores | (24 core), more memory (256 GB), faster GPU (3090), a 2TB pcie | 4 SSD and I suspect will perform better on standard benchmarks. | Definitely not as compact as the Studio though but lot more | extendable. | rovr138 wrote: | $5,799 for: | | * 20 core cpu | | * 64 core gpu | | * 32 core neural engine | | * 128GB of ram | | * 1TB SSD | | fully maxed out, 8TB SSD | hughrr wrote: | Yeah stuff SSD array in TB4 hole for less money. | rovr138 wrote: | Yeah. | | Obviously depends on people's workload. For myself and to | future proof, I can see a benefit for 2TB locally. | | The rest I can offload to network storage. | hughrr wrote: | Indeed. I'm running on a 512Gb MBP 14" and have 310Gb | free so no point in this for me. | londons_explore wrote: | Start editing high res video, and those TB's will quickly | fill up. | scottlamb wrote: | That's why hard disks are still made and sold: they're an | inexpensive way to achieve high capacity. I wouldn't | expect seek latency to be problematic for video editing, | and if it is, using the SSD as cache would likely be | sufficient. | hughrr wrote: | I have been purposely avoiding that situation to save | money :) | gumby wrote: | A TB4 connection is, for all intents and purposes, | "local". Way faster than any network storage. | ejb999 wrote: | I'd buy one in a second if only it would support running vmware | fusion - I still have to have one foot in Windows world, and not | being able to spin-up and old windows vm is a deal breaker for | me. (M1 chips won't support it). | | Sure hope my latest macbookpro with intel chip lasts a while, I | fear it may be one of the last ones they make. | AlphaSite wrote: | For what its worth there is a tech preview: | https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2021/09/fusion-for-m1-pu... | temac wrote: | For now do not attempt to run Win11 on it though. It kinda | sorta works a little after doing tons of workarounds | including some really crazy ones (network through a kernel | debugger stuff or something; manually installing x64 store | packages if you want the store, etc...), the graphics is | crap, rdesktoping is not very good. Seems fine for Linux VMs | though (then use them with ssh). | | If you want Win11 use Parallels, it works very very very | well. | | You can even run Fusion tech preview and Parallels at the | same time :) | tonyedgecombe wrote: | I expect Microsoft's answer to that will be to run an instance | of Windows in Azure. | TheRealPomax wrote: | Why would you overload this machine for that need, though? Just | have a laptop sitting on a shelf for when you need to spin up | those old VMs, do what you need to do, and put it back on the | shelf. | ejb999 wrote: | Its just the inconvenience of having to lug around multiple | machines, and backup multiple machines - its nice when | everything you need fits under your arm, but you are right - | I could offload my old VM's, and may need to do that at some | point. | gzer0 wrote: | Have you tried Parallels? | | It works incredibly well on the M1 macs. | | https://www.parallels.com/ | hughrr wrote: | Also UTM if you are a cheap ass like me. | | https://github.com/utmapp/UTM | | I use native virtualisation to run Debian arm64 and emulation | to run Debian x86-64 | temac wrote: | Quite slow and not multicore for x64-64 though. It | eventually works, but you better take a spare PC for any | non trivial task. | hughrr wrote: | I usually just run one in AWS when I need one if I'm | honest. | duskwuff wrote: | ARM versions of Parallels can only run ARM VMs. They can't | run x86 VMs. | | Parallels' marketing site does not make this very clear. | nebula8804 wrote: | They may be referring to the Non-Arm Windows. Let me tell you | Parallels running Windows ARM is the snappiest Windows | experience I have had in years....only problem is that its | Windows 11 :/ | | Really wish there was someway to easily run Windows 7 or 8 on | this thing. It would be bliss. Now that Windows XP Source has | been leaked, maybe we can come together as a community, try | to harden the OS and make it forward compatible with ARM. | Bring back the Windows that people actually somewhat liked! | If only that wasn't a monumental task :/ | ejb999 wrote: | Yes, but AFAIK, M1's will not support emulation of x86 based | regardless of software vendor - and unfortunately, I still | have to run some old VM's several times a week - include a | very old Windows XP environment, and I don't think anyone's | in any rush to support that anytime soon. | | Who knows, maybe get a Mac studio for my Mac work, and keep | my MacBook Pro for when I need to run non-arm VM's | 0x0 wrote: | So an M1 max is not... max anymore (>_<) | sanedigital wrote: | Technically "Ultra" means "Beyond", so putting it above "Max" | means it's "beyond the maximum" :P | can16358p wrote: | Well yes and no. M1 Ultra is obviously faster, but that | actually is two M1 Maxes glued together. (Of course it's much | more complicated than that) In that sense it's not a completely | new processor so it's not exactly breaking the "Max" promise... | or am I playing devil's advocate here? | georgeburdell wrote: | I don't buy Apple products for philosophical reasons, but the Mac | Mini, and now Mac Studio, are everything I wish Intel NUCs were. | I have an Intel Skull Canyon system from 2016 as my gaming PC and | it fits in my wife's purse. Since then, the gaming NUC variants | have gotten larger and larger so that they're nearly mini-ATX | form factor again. | dangus wrote: | You should get into the small form factor (SFF) Mini ITX gaming | scene. | | Brands like Velkase, Custom MOD (in Ukraine, cannot currently | conduct business), Phanteks, DAN Case, NZXT H1 V2, and many | others are really interesting options. | | I've built systems that use either SFX PSUs or Flex ATX PSUs | (the latter are usually modified with Noctua fans to quiet them | down, so using a case that requires an SFX power supply is more | noob-friendly and will have more generous power limits) | | The Optimum Tech channel on YouTube is a great as a general | small form factor resource. Here's a case roundup: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo8T81nuLFM | | Gamers Nexus sometimes covers small form factor, but Optimum | Tech has a lot more focus on SFF in particular. | minimaxir wrote: | The Mac Studio's HDMI doesn't support 120Hz out (so likely HDMI | 2.0?) and it also doesn't come with a keyboard and mouse. | the_lucifer wrote: | Seems like it shares the same shortcomings as the M1 Pro/Max | family then. | birdyrooster wrote: | At least the display port goes 120Hz beyond. | TheRealPomax wrote: | The complete lack of what HDMI port it uses is indeed pretty | bizarre, but why would it come with a keyboard and mouse? The | people who buy this already have those, or know which ones they | need far better than Apple does, and will buy the exactly | models they want on their own. | SZJX wrote: | The Thunderbolt ports support 120Hz though. I've been using the | company MBP 14" with a 144Hz display without a hitch. | kccoder wrote: | Apple said that Max's CPU is up to 2.5x faster and the Ultra's | CPU is up to 3.8x faster than whatever intel CPU is in the iMac | Pro, so you're getting about 52% more CPU performance with | Ultra's doubling in CPU cores vs the Max, so definitely feeling | some linear scaling limitations with the interconnect. | rovr138 wrote: | There has to be overhead to not have to deal with the multi-cpu | architecture in software. | | It's impressive | andjd wrote: | I don't work in the relevant space, but what makes coding for | multi-cpu substantially harder than programming for multiple | cores? Is it just having to manage separate memory for each | CPU? | cyber_kinetist wrote: | Though maybe we can get some NUMA-like affinity control for | the M1 Ultra, so HPC control freaks can finally tune the fuck | out of this hardware. | rovr138 wrote: | I'm actually curious about memory. | | Since they're 2 distinct chips, will a single chip be able | to handle 128GB? Not sure how the interconnect works. | cyber_kinetist wrote: | Yes, as all NUMA machines do, one CPU can access all | memory, both local (to the CPU) and global (through the | interconnect). The problem is that there is a significant | latency cost when a CPU accesses non-local memory | (limitations of the interconnect). So the HPC people | writing their algorithms make sure that this happens at a | minimal amount, by enforcing that the data each CPU is | using is allocated locally as possible (ex. by using | special affinity controls provided by libnuma) | | I was just curious if these kinds of optimizations are | possible in the M1 Ultra. | MBCook wrote: | But IS there an interconnect? | | The way Apple presented it sounded more like the chips | talked at a lower layer, much like if it was all built as | one physical chip, than when you have two normal chips | with an interconnect fabric. | | Someone will figure it out with benchmarks or something. | maronato wrote: | Maybe, but performance doesn't usually increase linearly with | cpu count anyway. See | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law | alberth wrote: | Mac Pro scale up? | | How is this going to scale up to a Mac Pro, especially related to | RAM? | | The Ultra caps at 128 GB of RAM (which isn't much for video | editing, especially given that the GPU uses the system RAM). | Today's Mac Pro goes up to 1.5TB (and has dedicated video RAM | above this). | | If the Mac Pro is say, 4 Ultra's stacked together - that means | the new Mac Pro will be capped at 512GB of RAM. | | Would Apple stack 12 Ultra's together to get to 1.5TB of RAM? | Seems unlikely. | stirlo wrote: | Hector Martin who's developing Asahi Linux for Apple Silicon | recently tweeted about this. The M1 Pro, M1 Max and the at the | time unannounced "Double M1 Max" have a completely different | series identifier (T600x) to the forth coming Mac Pro chip | (T6500) so no it won't just be a doubling/quadrupling of an | existing design. | https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1498317101245034502?s=21 | rpmisms wrote: | Production houses working on massive projects will get the Pro. | Anyone else will get the Studio and use proxy clips. | xwowsersx wrote: | Could/would this machine makes sense as a development machine? I | use a Macbook Pro (M1) and it's always docked...I basically don't | need it to be transportable. I could also use more power (I'm | regularly running a bunch of docker containers + PyCharm + | DataGrip + Android Studio). | eyelidlessness wrote: | I'll pretty likely swap this in for my almost always docked | intel 16", and keep that around for the rare times I go mobile. | turndown wrote: | I was kind of disappointed as I expected this to be the keyboard | thing that was leaked to the news a bit ago; seemed to fit just | right with their arguments of portability, connectivity, | modularity. | jazzyjackson wrote: | yea they kinda glossed over "modularity", I didn't see any | modules... | kitsunesoba wrote: | This is pretty squarely marketed towards current users of 27" | iMacs and iMac Pro's, so from that perspective the | "modularity" being spoken of is the ability to use the | display with things that aren't the Mac as well as the | ability to upgrade the display. Thunderbolt 4 also makes it | better than the previous TB3 iMacs in terms of external | expansion. | copperx wrote: | I'm pretty sure they meant "buy and connect up to three our | new displays however you like". | rovr138 wrote: | I just couldn't see it. Specially for the studio. | | The thermals would have been insane to deal with | colesantiago wrote: | Is there any point to building a PC anymore? | andrewmcwatters wrote: | At the moment the PC market is upside down, too. If you're | building a professional workstation, you'll find with current | prices that a business XPS desktop is cheaper by a significant | margin over building your own workstation with the highest end | parts available today. | etaioinshrdlu wrote: | Hey look, it's finally the "Missing Mac" as longed for here: | https://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2020/06/12/the-missing-ma... | and here: https://www.cultofmac.com/1899/the-missing-macintosh/ | | Fans have been asking for such a thing for so many years. | dcchambers wrote: | It's a little funny looking, proportionally speaking, but I am so | happy to see some ports on the front. It can be incredibly | awkward to try and find ports on the back of a machine. At first | glance it seems a little expensive, but the value based on | performance is actually fantastic. Well done, apple. | sys_64738 wrote: | It looks like the son of the Mac Cube. | ar_lan wrote: | Why is the M1 Max not... the maximum spec? | andrewjl wrote: | It is the maximum for a single chip. Ultra is two chips in a | single package. I think the name subtly emphasizes the | distinction. | eddieroger wrote: | It is the most they can get on one die, but they can glue | multiple dies together and get more. | lwkl wrote: | Great they avoided $1000 stand memes by offering a more | reasonable $400 stand. | | To be more serious looks like a pretty good product that fits | well into offices. I stopped working in IT in 2018 but back then | SFF was all the rage and a powerful workstation with a smaller | form factor will probably be attractive to a lot of customers. | hughrr wrote: | I want a vesa mount one which should be cheaper. Hrumph. | hagbarddenstore wrote: | It's "free". No additional cost. | [deleted] | nerdjon wrote: | More and more I see the M1 chips and I wish Mac worked seriously | well for gaming. Would love too see something like Proton but for | Mac (given up hopes for native support). | | I hate that I have my gaming PC and then my Mac for everything | else. | | I have to wonder though what their plan is for the M2. Are they | laying the groundwork for when the M2 comes out all of these | variants will be ready at the same time? Or a gradual upgrade but | the same series (Normal, Pro, Max, and then Ultra) for each. | GeekyBear wrote: | The good news is that optimized iPhone, iPad, and Mac games now | share most of their code and run on the same CPU and GPU cores. | | There aren't many Mac games that have been ported over to both | Metal and ARM, but World of Warcraft is an example. | lwkl wrote: | > but World of Warcraft is an example. | | Blizzard games are or were probably the outlier. They | supported Macs even back in the PowerPC days. As a kid with a | PowerBook G4 Blizzard games were the only good games I was | able to play (Warcraft 3, WoW, Diablo). I have no idea if | this is still the case for their newer games though. | mcphage wrote: | > I have no idea if this is still the case for their newer | games though. | | Diablo 2 Remastered doesn't run on a Mac :-( | smoldesu wrote: | Sure as hell won't get better now that they're owned by | Microsoft. You can expect DirectX to take center stage | for their upcoming releases. | amatecha wrote: | Yeah, in fact, Blizzard supported Mac since the 68k days. | Warcraft: Orcs and Humans required 68030 processor or | better :) https://web.archive.org/web/19961019194943/http:/ | /blizzard.c... | | Blackthorne ran on 68040 as well. I think WarCraft came out | first though... | GeekyBear wrote: | Given the sheer size of the market for iOS games, having | Mac games share most of the same code makes a Mac port | downright cheap. | otterley wrote: | Tell the game developers! They need to hear from you that the | demand is there. | NorwegianDude wrote: | Giving Apple more power by making software for their products | for free that Apple wants a large cut from doesn't sound like | a good idea. | | Make games for Linux, and let Apple figure out a | compatability layer to make it work on their products. That's | the way it should be. | criddell wrote: | > Apple wants a large cut from doesn't sound like a good | idea | | It sounds like a good idea if it leads to higher profits. | Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all charge game developers | similar fees. | NorwegianDude wrote: | Maybe short term. Helping a company grow that is know to | lock down their products and force developers to pay them | for access might not be the best long term plan overall. | [deleted] | otterley wrote: | Apple doesn't get a cut of software that's sold outside the | App Store on MacOS. | | And the most performant MacOS APIs for graphics rendering | aren't on Linux AFAIK. Besides, game developers generally | eschew compatibility layers because they harm performance. | criddell wrote: | Has everybody forgotten about Apple Arcade? It has all the | hits like Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja! | JAlexoid wrote: | There's more demand for streaming games, than games for Macs. | | Desktop Macs with GPUs even remotely capable of gaming are | not that plentiful. | xyst wrote: | In reality though would you really want your games to be | installed on the same machine as your daily driver? | | Game companies and their parent companies tend to install some | shady spyware on your machine in the name of "anti-cheat | software" (ie, installed in the ring0/kernel space). I am kind | of relieved that I have 2 separate machines. | | Although if they develop virtualized environments to sandbox | games from the host machine (similar to QEMU) then I suppose | that might work. | bart_spoon wrote: | > In reality though would you really want your games to be | installed on the same machine as your daily driver? | | Yes. The vast majority of people that I'm aware of don't buy | multiple desktops. If I spend $1000+ for a gaming machine, I | don't want to spend hundreds more to have multiple machines | to jump between and to manage connections to and to take up | space in my office. | code_witch_sam wrote: | - [x] RGB'd out PC with RTX 3090 for playing Minecraft and | Elden ring | | - [x] Decent wired network in-home | | - [x] Connect via Moonlight from Mac Mini M1 to Gaming PC | | - [x] Best of both worlds | | It's wonderful. I only wish my Mac Mini had a 120hz display | attached. | joemi wrote: | Minecraft runs great on M1 Macs, btw. | nouveaux wrote: | I don't feel the need to play cutting edge games anymore. | Playing Windows games in Parallel on my M1 is pretty good. I | was shocked to see how well it worked. It's unlikely to run | Elden Ring well. However, the vast majority of games are fine. | cube2222 wrote: | It'd be cool to see some gaming-oriented benchmarks of the M1 | Ultra with Parallels. | ar_lan wrote: | Technically, I think this is illegal (Microsoft doesn't have | a license for ARM support that isn't Qualcomm based). So for | the pirating community this might not be an issue, but for | long term survivability of the industry that would need to | change. | hammock wrote: | Mac is going back to their most successful niche - creators. | Tiktaalik wrote: | Game developers are creators! | | Additionally all the creators, musicians, artists, etc that | are making assets for and working with the game industry are | having to use PCs to interface with the game. | nkozyra wrote: | Almost all of those assets can be created entirely | independently, though. There's no need to use a PC to | interface. | neoberg wrote: | Yes but to try and experiment with those assets "in | game", they'd need to use a PC. | Tiktaalik wrote: | Yeah but in game dev increasingly the tooling is | integrated in the engine and so doing assets on a mac, | then bringing them over to a PC and putting them into the | game is an incredible unnecessary and annoying friction | point. | | Increasingly rare to find an artist that only works in | photoshop and isn't working in the engine, directly | putting their work into the game. | | Accordingly even the art side is using PCs. | LegitShady wrote: | Creators is not one group but many groups who create | different things. | satsuma wrote: | and it makes total sense! computers are slowly transitioning | back to professional/enthusiast/educational focused as casual | internet browsing continues to move onto mobile devices. you | don't have people buying laptops to browse the internet on | their couch anymore. | mshockwave wrote: | Same, I want to run AAA games using these crazy Mac hardwares. | A more interesting question will be: how hard it will be to | implement such Proton for Mac? Is there any previous project? | randmeerkat wrote: | Some more donations to Proton's Patreon would probably help. | They only get about $400 / month right now... | | https://www.patreon.com/protondb | Anon1096 wrote: | That is a Patreon link ProtonDB, not Proton. Proton is | funded by Valve and ProtonDB is unaffiliated. | randmeerkat wrote: | You're right, thanks for pointing that out. | zten wrote: | It exists as a proprietary product. Final Fantasy 14's Mac | "port" is using Crossover, which slaps some magic on Wine. | Definitely not a AAA graphics title but you could run it | today. On a 16" MBP with the top spec M1 Max, it will get | about 30-50fps with medium detail and I think I tested it at | 1680x1050 - which feels like a miracle, almost, but gets | trounced by an Intel i9 + AMD Vega 56(?) MBP running Windows | from a few years ago. If the right APIs were available and an | aarch64 binary were published instead, it would probably be a | different story. | Thaxll wrote: | Well crazy mac hardware is actually not very good compared to | PC graphic cards. | yurishimo wrote: | The comparison chart for the high spec M1 Ultra was using a | 3090. | | So even if it "only" reaches 3060 levels of performance in | games, I think many people would be okay with that. Reality | will likely place it somewhere between a 3060 and the 3090. | ohgodplsno wrote: | "Reality will place it between a low end enthusiast card | and a high end enthusiast card" | | thanks nostradamus, i can also tell you tomorrow's | temperature is going to be between 0 and 100C | borodi wrote: | So 3090 price for 3060 performance, doesn't sound very | promising. I wish we could exploit those gpus easier for | compute, but compute with metal is simply not there, at | least for now. | yurishimo wrote: | It's not priced like a 3090 though? There's an entire | computer there and the CPU performance is no slouch, even | if the GPU may be lacking for what gamers want today. | JAlexoid wrote: | You're right, it's priced higher than RTX3090. Because HP | sells the whole system with RTX3090 at $2909 right now. | brimble wrote: | I'm pretty sure the gamers who're always rocking high-end | video cards are a small minority of PC gamers, anyway, | even if we only count "serious" gamers (not just Candy | Crush or whatever) to remove that potential objection. | | A lot more probably find a best-bang-for-the-buck | midrange card and hang on to it for ~3 years, before | upgrading to another midrange card. | Thaxll wrote: | It's their perf per watt chart that is irrelevant for | gaming. | olyjohn wrote: | Honestly, performance per watt is probably the least | important consideration for a desktop computer. | | Running a farm of these things? Maybe perf per watt makes | sense to save some money. Mobile device running on | battery? I totally get it. | | But surely, the difference in cost for one person running | it in their house, or a few hundred people in an | office... like who cares? The cost savings won't even be | noticeable on the power bill. | BirAdam wrote: | Actually, they're excellent as one can actually easily | purchase an M1 mac at the moment. | rootusrootus wrote: | What's the M1 Max equivalent to? Roughly a RTX3070 or | thereabouts? That doesn't seem too awful. | Keyframe wrote: | Unless you want more or replace it. | JAlexoid wrote: | At almost twice the price of a desktop with the same | RTX3070 from Dell or HP. | | It's definitely a great machine, but if you're a gamer - | stay away. | rootusrootus wrote: | I would like to see better gaming on Mac just so I | wouldn't need two computers, or compromise just to get a | machine that can be a halfway decent gaming setup. | Apocryphon wrote: | Guess that means consoles will always have a place as | that "second computer". | JAlexoid wrote: | GeForce Now is there for you... | nerdjon wrote: | Doing some quick searching around. | | I know there is Crossover, Wine technically works on Mac from | what I can tell also. So not sure if there is a technical | reason Proton couldn't work on Mac other than just not | building it. | | Apple does talk a lot about gaming now on the iPhone and | iPad, I would love to see them talk about it more on Mac | (especially with how powerful these are) and maybe work with | Proton like Steam is for the Steam Deck. | chaosharmonic wrote: | Proton also depends on DXVK, an additional translation | layer that specifically bridges the Windows graphics APIs | to Vulkan (as opposed to WINE handling its system calls in | a general sense). | | Meanwhile, newer versions of macOS (and the M1 that runs | the ARM builds in particular) don't use Vulkan at all, | opting for Metal instead. | xrisk wrote: | Crossover is proprietary. Pure Wine cannot run x86 apps on | ARM if I understand correctly. | nouveaux wrote: | I don't think something like Proton will pan out. What will | likely happen is that the larger studio making AAA games will | want an iOS port. At that point, it will be trivial to tweak | it for the M1 chips. Games like Elden Ring and and GTA are | perfectly playable on an iPad with a controller. M1 Apple TVs | are definitely in the pipeline. iOS makes it worthwhile for | AAA studios to port their hits over to the Apple ecosystem. | SamuelAdams wrote: | There is a lot of support for M1. See these lists. Please note | though that "playable" does not mean "on par with other | platforms", ie, Windows and Xbox / Playstation. | | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1er-NivvuIheDmIKBVRu3... | | https://applesilicongames.com/ | lelandfe wrote: | I believe OP meant Mac, not M1 - I.e. that there are many | multitudes of AAA games that still have not hit macOS. | | You're right, though, that M1 has pretty decent parity with | Intel Macs for games now. | neogodless wrote: | Games I've played over the past two years: | | Valheim - not in database | | ARK: Survival Evolved - "game won't launch" | | Conan: Exiles - not in database | | Grounded - not in database | | Civ V and Civ VI - each shows one record and seems it ran for | that person (30-60 fps - for comparison, both run 144 fps on | my $1000 Lenovo laptop.) | | It Takes Two - not in database | | That's all anecdotal, i.e. the games this one person likes to | play are not supported, or don't play very well, and some of | them are 5+ years old. | | Overall the point being, it's hard to shell out all that | money for a device that won't play your games. (If this sort | of gaming is part of your computer use case). So to that | original comment's point "I wish Mac worked seriously well | for gaming." | jamesy0ung wrote: | X-Plane is great on M1. | Tiktaalik wrote: | Seriously. If Apple supported gaming more I'd be able to drop | this PC. | | Could be the sort of thing that could cause an avalanche of | switchers. | | You'd also pull over the entire games industry into the Apple | space. Right now we code on PCs. As Apple silicon gets better, | it's gonna be more and more painful to not be able to make use | of that. | npunt wrote: | Not sure about game developers, but gamers are a low-margin, | high-touch, low-satisfaction-score, garish-aesthetic, speeds- | and-feeds market. Pretty much antithetical to Apple's core | focus and I think they rightly avoid them. Despite personally | wanting more games on Mac :) | outworlder wrote: | > low-margin | | Really? | | Have you missed the insane markups on anything 'gaming' | related for many years? | andrewmcwatters wrote: | Could you provide an example? | jdgoesmarching wrote: | Also I feel like everyone is missing their AR/VR push right | around the corner. VR headsets with these chips will be | dramatically more powerful than other devices on the | market. Combine that power with Apple product marketing, | and devs will be there regardless of how much the Metal | APIs suck. | jachee wrote: | > If Apple supported gaming more | | You mean if gaming supported Apple more, right? The | industry's reliance on DirectX and the frameworks that build | on it are largely what keep gaming so PC-centric. | | If we saw AAA studios embrace macOS-compatible (or better yet | Open Source) graphics architecture, the need to have separate | gaming PCs (and the insanely expensive GPUs associated | therewith) would evaporate. | risho wrote: | if they would just support vulkan they could basically pick | up directx for free off of the back of valve | minimaxir wrote: | Even games running on engines like Unity and UE4 that | support macOS/Metal don't support macOS because the | userbase size isn't worth the overhead. | | It's a chicken and egg problem, although Apple Arcade is a | good approach to try and bridge that gap. | nightski wrote: | There is no chicken and egg. Apple has tens of billions | of dollars. If they wanted to support games it could be | done really quickly. They straight up are anti-gaming | unless it is of the exploitative micro-transaction mobile | kind where they can reap that store tax. | smoldesu wrote: | Yeah, it's pretty sad to see them pimping the likes of | Genshin Impact. Even among the people who do play and | enjoy it, I've yet to meet anyone who will defend it as | anything other than a Breath of the Wild ripoff with a | slot machine-shaped tumor attached to it's hip. | MattSteelblade wrote: | It's Apple's refusal to support Vulkan that is it's biggest | detriment to the gaming industry. | ohgodplsno wrote: | Right, it's the studio's fault, not because Metal is a | dogshit API with dogshit performance. And instead of paying | 900$ for a RTX 3090, you could pay 4000 for something with | the equivalent power of a 3060Ti that you can't upgrade | without buying an entire new SoC. | | But go on, blame directx for being the one API actually | moving things forwards. Not Apple's shitty behavior. | jachee wrote: | You got a source on $900 3090s? | | I can't find 'em for under $2000. | l-p wrote: | > As of June 3, 2021, there is no native support for Vulkan | API provided by Apple devices. | | > Apple deprecated OpenGL in iOS 12 and macOS 10.14 Mojave | in favor of Metal, but it is still available as of macOS 11 | Big Sur (including Apple silicon devices). The latest | version supported for OpenGL is 4.1 from 2011. | | OSX accounts for 2.62% of Steam users. | | Implementing another graphics backend is prohibitively | expensive for small studios whereas you could implement | either OpenGL or Vulkan and get the other 97.38%. And | that's without factoring in the required investment in | single-use hardware, people, and skills. | | DirectX is another safe choice but I try to stay away from | anything proprietary or Microsoft-related. | mhh__ wrote: | Why would you spend a huge chunk of your R&D money | supporting a platform with users who don't game built by a | company that won't spend a tiny amount of their R&D budget | supporting industry standard technology that's been | established for years. | asiachick wrote: | AFAIK Unreal and Unity but support Metal. It's a chicken | and egg thing. There is no game market on MacOS because no | gamers are on MacOS because there are no games on MacOS so | there are no gamers on MacOS .... | | Of course consumer level macs have never had GPUs that | could run AAA games. I don't know what an M1 MacBook Air's | perf is. If it's able to run AAA games and a reasonable | framerate then maybe a market would build? But if you're | limiting gamers to M1 Pro/M1 Max/M1 Ultra users only then | it's probably a pretty small market? | georgeecollins wrote: | >> You mean if gaming supported Apple more, right? | | I can tell you from long experience-- more than 20 years | ago I produced a Mac games with Apple's financing and as | recently as five years ago I produced a game that sold over | $100m on an Apple device-- Apple has been extremely | consistent in their attitude. They are much less supportive | of gaming then Microsoft or Sony. Part of it is that they | see games as a lesser use of their devices over other use | cases. Another part is that they consistently promote the | kind of experiences they wish their customers wanted over | the experiences their customers choose. | cyberpunk wrote: | How's your internet connection? I'm playing on a RTX3080 | thanks to geforce now, but I admit it's only possible due to | my living in a big city with a very low ping connection to | nvidias data centres. | | But the economics make total sense. It's like 15/euro a | month. A RTX 3080 would cost me like 1200 euro to buy at the | moment, without the rest of the PC to go with it. And I'd | need to run windows, which I've not done since '98. | | Outsourcing hardware it seems, does work for gaming, if | you've got the 'net for it, :} | cyberpunk wrote: | And cyberpunk 2077 or farcry 6 on full on ultra settings | makes me almost want to cry it's so pretty. I'll walk past | a puddle and just... walk back and forward. It feels like | what your teenage overclock made crysis look look like in | the early 2000's, I can recommend. | jakear wrote: | As someone who hasn't really gamed since Crysis, looking | at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5rYjHuZsM0, I have to | say I feel.... not impressed at all? Maybe that video is | a poor example, but the plants for instance look | absolutely awful, especially up close. | asiachick wrote: | Yea, here's Crysis and you're right IMO. At a glance I | can't see much difference. I'm sure I could find them but | they certainly don't stick out | | https://youtu.be/KVmc2P2PPRw?t=841 | Apocryphon wrote: | The core gameplay mechanics of Far Cry have not changed | significantly since Crysis, either. (Okay, more | accurately since Far Cry 3- released a decade ago- or | so.) | asabla wrote: | ha! are you me? | | Had the benefit to purchase my self a beasty computer | right before Cyberpunk launched. | | I don't know how many times I just stopped what I was | doing and just look at something shiny/bright. | | Last time I felt this way must have been back with HL2 | cyberpunk wrote: | Fortunately it's gotten better. I didn't play it much | during the first months as it was such a terrible | shitshow of bugs. Seems they're getting ontop of it now | though. I feel deeply sorry for the devs that they made | them release it in such a condition. We've all been there | I guess! | mrtksn wrote: | What I don't like about this model is that you are not | allowed to run whatever you want, you can't even run all | your library from Steam or Epic but select games only. | cercatrova wrote: | There are other services that allow you to run base | windows from which you can run whatever you want. | | https://shadow.tech/ | nr2x wrote: | 100% this: cloud gaming tech is solid but the business | model is still in infancy. By the time Apple caught up in | gaming I expect cloud gaming will have taken root. | JAlexoid wrote: | I'm in a rural area 1.5 hour north of NYC - I use GeForce | Now and Stadia with 6ms latency. It's available to more | than just the big cities. | cyberpunk wrote: | Okay, try that in rural Scotland ;) | madeofpalk wrote: | RTX3080 but you've got low bitrate mpeg artifacts. I've | tried them, they're fine when its your only option. | smoldesu wrote: | It's important to note that Apple cut off the Proton devs; not | the other way around. It would indeed be pretty cool to see | that sort of thing running on Apple Silicon, but the plethora | of architectural changes that came along with Catalina stopped | Mac support from being a viable target for Valve. | | Not very surprising though; Mac native games don't really work | that well either. If it relies on 32-bit libraries, it won't | launch. If it uses outdated OpenGL, you can expect a plethora | of errors to accompany you to an instantaneous crash. Apple has | their work cut out for them, I just doubt they'll have the | "courage" to bring back the features they so courageously threw | away. | ilrwbwrkhv wrote: | Same. That chunky PC serves only one purpose now and rest of | the time is unused. | nerdjon wrote: | The unused part is what bothers me, like I actively make sure | I use windows for as little outside of gaming for various | reasons. | | But for the price to use it, ok not rarely since I game a | lot... but considering I also have consoles. I would say I | use my Mac more. | | I just wonder if this is ever going to be a realistic | alternative or am I just always going to have 2 personal | computers. | tannedNerd wrote: | What Im hoping for is with fiber/5G things like GeforceNow | become more popular. I used it recently thanks to 6 free | months from ATT when I had an unscheduled layover due to a | missed flight, and it was actually playable with 7 Days to | Die (a FPS). Granted it wasn't as good as my home machine, | but this was also over hotel wifi so not bad | ralfd wrote: | > More and more I see the M1 chips and I wish Mac worked | seriously well for gaming. | | I guess Apple will never play the console game, with having | their own game developer studios and buying exclusives. | | But I wish they would put a M1 in an Apple TV, releasing their | own controller and just do something! | paxys wrote: | Third/fourth/fifth time's the charm I guess? I really hope apple | gets the "Mac Pro" form factor right this time. | the_lucifer wrote: | > I really hope apple gets the "Mac Pro" form factor right this | time. | | Tbh, they did mention at the end that their Apple Silicon Mac | Pro is coming later down the line, which I'm guessing will | focus more on upgradability and modularity | mkaic wrote: | hopefully M2 as well! | ShakataGaNai wrote: | As a comparsion a quick build on PCPartPicker: Xeon E5 22 core, | Radeon RX 6900 XT, case, power supply, 64 gb of ram, motherboard, | 1TB SSD and CPU cooler. Comes in at just shy of $5,000 | | That CPU isn't as powerful as the one the M1 Ultra beat in their | specs, but should be about the same GPU as they compared and | beat. If the benchmarks are to be believed.... the $4,000 Mac | Studio will be an absolute powerhouse in the | price/performance/power market for quite some amount of time. | | Normally I'd make some snarky remark about Apple Tax, but in this | case they look to have the PC hardware equivalent very well and | truly beat on cost. For now. | xemdetia wrote: | If anything this just reminds me how frustrating their product | line was pre-M1 for so many years. I'm still dealing with the | legacy of having to work with people with 16GB as the ceiling | and projects that simply do not fit in them. | traceroute66 wrote: | > As a comparsion a quick build on PCPartPicker: Xeon E5 22 | core, Radeon RX 6900 XT, case, power supply, 64 gb of ram, | motherboard, 1TB SSD and CPU cooler. Comes in at just shy of | $5,000 | | And that's just the parts. Don't forget the M1 Ultra will use | less electrical power too. | ajconway wrote: | Don't forget that any of the M1-family chips are absolutely | crushing the competition in single-core performance. | flembat wrote: | Good to see the kind of computer we can all afford in ten years | or so. | rovr138 wrote: | This is not really geared towards 'all'. You can see that on | the presentation and who they had talking. | TheRealPomax wrote: | You missed the "ten years from now". I will happily pay | $300-#400 for this machine 10 years from now to use as a | random streaming box sat in a closet. | bogwog wrote: | I did that with a Mac Mini, but at some point it seems to | have entered a permanently throttled state for some reason. | Disk IO and CPU performance are atrocious, and idk why. | Even tried installing Linux on it, but it's still | incredibly slow. Maybe some sensor broke? | | Whatever it is, I've become much less trusting of Apple | hardware that is that old. | brimble wrote: | I assume you cleaned the dust out? Otherwise I think your | guess of a faulty sensor is most likely. | | [EDIT] Could be some thermal paste going bad, too, I | guess. | loudthing wrote: | Darn. I was really hoping for a new Macbook Air :/ | youngtaff wrote: | Boy is that an ugly box... the proportions seem all wrong to me - | looks like they just stacked a bunch on Mac Mini's (which has | pretty nice proportions) | ksec wrote: | The M1 Ultra is likely using CoWoS from TSMC. | | https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/tsmc/cowos | andrewmcwatters wrote: | The whole GPU thing is really funny. The M1 Ultra is supposedly | more powerful now than an NVIDIA Quadro RTX 8000, but I'm | guessing really truly only for professional work. | | If you tried to play games on it or develop games for it, you're | gonna find that it's less powerful than the standard AMD | integrated GPU on a 5k iMac from 2015 until you come across | software or build software using Metal directly. | | Both Wine and Parallels usage today provide poor graphics | performance. | thrusong wrote: | Where does this fit in the lineup of Macs? | | The 27" iMac is gone and the Mac Studio looks like it's taking | the place of that or could even be the new Pro. | | I don't want that thing on my desktop, I want a big all-in-one. | | At least the Studio Display looks like it could be used to stuff | some kind of M chip in down the road for a "pro" all-in-one | option. | newaccount74 wrote: | Using the 27" iMac with lots of stuff plugged in is a bit | annoying. I occasionally have cables coming loose when I adjust | the display. And it's impossible to get additional displays | that match the iMacs look. | ushakov wrote: | The design looks like it was designed to be a fan, but they | accidentally added a computer chip | TheRealPomax wrote: | Cool | areoform wrote: | I would like to highlight just how much Apple is focusing on | their customers and use cases right now. It seems that they're | targeting products to what their professional customers actually | want. And in this case, it's a 3.7" little thing that can process | 18 streams of 8k video (fully specced out). That's kinda crazy, | and they're doing it at a price point that's competitive compared | to all of the companies out there. | | Bravo Apple. I'd love to see what they have in store for | designers and programmers next. | nouveaux wrote: | > they're doing it at a price point that's competitive compared | to all of the companies out there | | I think they're blowing all their competitors out of the water | with the price point. It's not just a 10-20% difference in | price anymore. | throwaway894345 wrote: | And you can tell because they were marketing their products | in relation to older Apple products rather than other | manufacturers. | NorwegianDude wrote: | $8k for 128GB RAM, 8 TB solid state storage and 22 trillion | ops/sec isn't exactly a bargain. | | I do however image that the performance per watt will be | really good. | efficax wrote: | Try and price out a PC with those specs, it will come in | around $6k minimum, but much more power intensive and very | very loud | gigatexal wrote: | Don't feed the "but I can build a pc for less" crowd. | They can't see the apples to oranges comparison they're | making: a Mac is not a PC. They have different use-cases | and run different software. | goosedragons wrote: | johnmaguire wrote: | This thread started with a comparison to PCs... I mean I | assume, since no competitor is putting out Macs... | | > That's kinda crazy, and they're doing it at a price | point that's competitive compared to all of the companies | out there. | MisterTea wrote: | > They have different use-cases ... | | Likely mostly running the same workloads such as web | browsing. | | > ... and run different software. | | Maybe if Apple wrote it. Otherwise you can run the same | Chrome/Firefox, Photoshop and Office on a Windows or even | Linux Machine. Most software is shared between platforms | nowadays with posix/windows being the lowest common | denominator in terms of "cross platform". | bee_rider wrote: | You definitely shouldn't buy a $4000 computer if your | only workload is web browsing. | cj wrote: | > $8k for 128GB RAM, 8 TB solid state storage | | Maybe not, but 32GB RAM + 512GB SSD for $2k is a pretty | competitive price point. | adgjlsfhk1 wrote: | a 512 gb ssd is kinda inexcusable in a machine that costs | more than $1000 1tb of ssd is only around $100. | brailsafe wrote: | It's a bit miserly, to say the least | asiachick wrote: | it's there for framing, solely to push you to the next | tier | gigatexal wrote: | But ssd is not 100 usd gumstick from of the shelf it's | integrated and sports speeds of 7.4GB/s at the top end. | Shrug | brailsafe wrote: | No, it's a $200-400 gumstick that you can get off the | shelf | | https://www.newegg.com/seagate-2tb- | firecuda-530/p/N82E168202... | yborg wrote: | The Apple upgrade cost to 1TB is also $200. | brailsafe wrote: | Right, but the link was for 2TB at the same speed, and | it's a $600 upgrade for 2TB from 512, which means | literally $800 for 2TB in total, plus tax! To be fair, it | is likely higher quality, more efficient maybe, but I | just think it's quite a reach to charge $800 USD for 2TB | of storage that's not uniquely fast or anything. If you | think that's a good value, it certainly might be | depending on your work, but it would be twice as good | value if it wasn't twice the price as off-the-shelf. | throwanem wrote: | A terabyte of dead-slow and flaky SSD costs a hundred | bucks, sure. But it doesn't matter much because, in the | kinds of professional workflows this machine is | targeting, local storage is more like swap space than | anything. It needs to be fast more than it needs to be | big. | goosedragons wrote: | A 1TB Samsung 980 Pro is $150 retail and arguably | overpriced. 512GB in a $2000 computer is a joke in 2022. | go_prodev wrote: | $600 extra for a 2tb drive. So they're just giving them | away now? /s | oneplane wrote: | Depends on what we're comparing, an average 20-core Dell | Precision workstation costs about $10k. | traceroute66 wrote: | > I think they're blowing all their competitors out of the | water with the price point. | | Not only on price point but also performance per watt. The M1 | laptops were a game changer on that front, and I expect the | M1 Ultra to be the same. | nextos wrote: | This is very interesting because PC workstations have been | stagnating for quite long! It'd be cool to be able to bring | medium-sized tasks back from clouds to personal computers. | | The CPU performance is impressive but I wonder how well it'd | fare against say an AMD ThreadRipper or a dual socket system | with an equivalent price? It'd be also interesting to see a | deep learning benchmark against Nvidia. Branding and RAM limits | suggest this is geared towards video processing, but might also | be useful for some other domains. | rfoo wrote: | Depending on your use case. Assuming no video editing (since | this is HN), for equivalent performance I guess they can't | beat their rivals on price. Different story for power tho. | MisterTea wrote: | > This is very interesting because PC workstations have been | stagnating for quite long! | | How have they stagnated? | twoWhlsGud wrote: | Look at | | https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv- | certif... | | or the HP equivalent - they're still equipping them with | Xeon's from 2 1/2 years ago. So pretty stagnant. | kiratp wrote: | My workstation has a 3990x. | | Our "world" build is slightly faster on my M1 Max. | | https://twitter.com/kiratpandya/status/1457438725680480257 | | The 3990x runs a bit faster on the initial compile stage but | the linking is single threaded and the M1 Max catches up at | that point. I expect the M1 Ultra to crush the 3990x on | compile time. | amelius wrote: | Time for your linker vendor to parallelize their algorithm. | gaws wrote: | > It seems that they're targeting products to what their | professional customers actually want. | | A $2,000 machine to handle editing, processing and posting | video ~content~ on YouTube. | skybrian wrote: | I don't know, "18 streams of 8k video" doesn't seem terribly | customer-oriented? Is it something anything anyone really needs | or understands other than "that's very fast?" How much video | can you watch at a time? | | I also don't see how the size of a desktop computer matters, | other than as a fashion statement. | etchalon wrote: | ... it's not for consumers. It's for their customers. Which | are video editors. | kayoone wrote: | it's not a consumer product, video editors can utilize | multiple streams of video in many usecases. The iMac and the | Macbook Air are the consumer products with enough performance | for 99% of users. | rsynnott wrote: | This generally isn't aimed at consumers; the much cheaper Mac | Mini and iMac would be more appropriate there. It's for | creative professionals (and to some degree programmers, | though I really wish they'd make a similar-sized chip with | less silicon budget spent on GPUs and more on CPUs...) | WheelsAtLarge wrote: | I think over all the designers that focused on how the products | looked have lost the tight grip they had over them. For years, | look was more important than function. It was probably a good | thing since it helped make the company become what it is today. | But giving engineering a bit more control is givings us some | very functional products. Very cool. | lquist wrote: | Why are they doing this? Trickle down effects for their mass | market products? There is no way that the prosumer market is | big enough to justify this distraction for Apple even if it | used to be their core business line. | spfzero wrote: | Apple's market share has always been a small slice of the | overall PC market. In a way, they never did "mass market". | While the prosumer market may be a small proportion of the | overall market, it could be very significant, for Apple, | relative to the market Apple addresses. | | Plus, I think a lot of people who would not normally call | themselves a "prosumer" will want, and purchase these. | alwillis wrote: | _Apple 's market share has always been a small slice of the | overall PC market._ | | _Small_ is doing a lot of work in that sentence. | | Apple sold nearly $11 billion worth of Macs last quarter. | Once you get out of the HN echo chamber and enterprise IT | circles, Macs are quite popular. | | _In a way, they never did "mass market"._ | | Having an Apple Store within a 20 minute drive of 80% of | the American public counts as mass market [1]. Haven't been | lately because pandemic but my local Apple Stores were | always packed with people. And of course there's a Best | Buy, Micro Center and other regional retailers that sell | Macs in places with no Apple Stores. | | It's not just prosumers; it's normies who just want a good | computer made by a company they've heard of and trust vs. a | cheap plastic 3rd tier PC from a manufacturer they're | vaguely familiar with. I've been involved in user groups | since the 80's; trust me, most Mac users are just regular | people--not music producers and cinematographers. | | An M1 Mac mini, which certainly outperforms most PCs in | it's price class. The retail price starts at $699 but is | available for significantly less via 3rd parties like | Amazon. | | If you think of the market segment as "non-plastic | computers that don't suck", Apple is doing quite well. And | now that Apple Silicon performance continues to outpace the | industry as a whole, this will continue. | | The other segment is the "I like nice things" crowd. They | aren't price sensitive; they just like nice things and Macs | have that in spades compared to the vast majority of PCs. | | [1]: https://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/ | mhh__ wrote: | There is a big market of creatives/artists who basically own | an apple product as a decent chunk of their personality, for | good or bad. Ergo, they'll sell. | kube-system wrote: | More margin than ever now that they're just gluing ARM | processors together instead of buying Xeons from Intel? | phillco wrote: | Ecosystem. | raydev wrote: | What do you mean big enough? You don't think there's any | profits here? | jameshart wrote: | Are you saying this only targets prosumers because | professionals will wait for the M1 (M2?) Mac Pro? | madeofpalk wrote: | I would imagine: | | - it's easy for them to make | | - some of their customers need them | | - prevents people switching to windows for high-even pro | machines, which would influence their other computer | purchases | btown wrote: | Yep, this is the requisite "hey Hollywood I know we haven't | thought about your studio needs in a while, here's a bone | that reminds you why Apple is the industry standard" play. | rsynnott wrote: | So, you'd think, and that's certainly what I was thinking | when watching the thing... but they teased a future Mac | Pro announcement at the end. This is a mid-level machine, | apparently (similar to the old iMac Pro, I suppose). | post-it wrote: | The indie professional market is more than big enough to | justify this. Small films have been able to roll some pretty | impressive vfx on desktop computers recently, and North | American creative types tend to love Macs. | newaccount2021 wrote: | aldanor wrote: | I really wish they focused on bigger displays too. For | music/video production having at least 2x27'' screen size is | crucial. But two is kind of weird because you can't centre any | app. And there is kind of too much... | yewenjie wrote: | Wait, how and why did Apple suddenly become cost-effective? | codyb wrote: | Apple's been fairly cost competitive for a while now. That's | an old trope, lots of their new stuff is similarly priced or | in some cases cheaper than their competitors. | | Given the longevity and resale value, they make great | machines. | londons_explore wrote: | Apples stuff has been cost competitive since the M1 came | out... Although it's partly because there isn't much else in | the same performance envelope, so there isn't much to compare | to. | ggreg84 wrote: | When the M1 was released... a year ago... | | You could buy a 900$ laptop with a better CPU than any laptop | out there. 20 hours battery life (almost 3x any other laptop | out there). Silent (no fans). With a great screen, a great | keyboard, lightweight, well built, etc. | | Basically a machine that was more than 2x cheaper of | competing laptops at 2500 $ or more, yet had more than 2x of | everything. | newaccount74 wrote: | ... if you can live with machines that just come with the | bare minimum RAM and SSD. If you get the Macs with the same | amount of storage that the PCs come with, the $900 laptop | quickly becomes a $2000 laptop. | | I wish I could get back all the time I've wasted helping | relatives deal with their Photos libraries and backups just | because they got the entry level machine with skimpy | storage... | mardifoufs wrote: | I've had an 8gb macbook Air m1, and it's honestly never | been an issue even for dev stuff since my workloads just | wouldn't run on my local machine anyway. It's much, much | less of an issue than on my Windows laptop with 8gb of | ram, too. | | As for storage, yeah 240gb is probably not ideal for most | people but since I bought the air mostly as a lightweight | device I can carry anywhere instead of a workstation | (even though it's insanely powerful for what it is) it | does not really matter in my case. | | (This is my first Mac so I was very worried of the pretty | limited ram since I had no idea how macOS deals with | memory, but if it's fine for me I'd say it's fine for | most normal/casual users) | newaccount74 wrote: | 8GB RAM is fine as long as you don't try running multiple | VMs or lots of docker containers. macOS is surprisingly | good at dealing with limited RAM thanks to memory | compression. | | The small SSD is the bigger issue. If you use it as your | main machine you will fill it up quickly and people then | start doing stupid things like putting their Photos | library on a USB stick or on an SD card, and that's just | asking for trouble. | ghostly_s wrote: | How long did it take you to check the 'Optimize Storage' | box? | newaccount74 wrote: | That's a somewhat recent addition, and it does help | somewhat with the Photo library problem. It sucks if you | don't have a fast internet connection, though. It also | sucks if there's ever a problem with the photo library, | because then you don't have a backup anymore. | | Maybe 240GB are enough for light usage if you store | photos in the cloud. I can only say that in my experience | 1TB is the bare minimum if I don't want to spend half my | time copying files around. | mhh__ wrote: | 2x of everything apart from storage, ram, available | software, ability to upgrade, ability to repair. | | It was a fantastic product launch sure but it's not really | fair to say it was 2x better on all metrics at a given | price. | selimnairb wrote: | Apple has consistently been cost-competitive since at least | the Intel era, if you compare to mid- and high-end PC | hardware. Apple never has made entry-level systems. Also, | comparing to home-built doesn't really count because most IT | departments won't support custom PCs. | gtm1260 wrote: | Since M1 pretty much. | ohgodplsno wrote: | brimble wrote: | They have been off-and-on. They had a few notable price cuts | back in the twenty-teens that made them damned competitive. | At times they've been a rip-off but most of the "LOL look how | expensive Apple is" stuff achieves such large gaps by | comparing them to significantly worse hardware and calling it | "equivalent". Plus theirs is the only consumer phone and | computer hardware with a healthy used market, so you don't | take as big a hit on recoverable value as soon as you "drive | it off the lot". | MuffinFlavored wrote: | Not only that... | | > 20-Core CPU | | > 48-Core GPU | | > 32-Core Neural Engine | | for $3,999 | | is that kind of like... a bargain? | gowld wrote: | Maybe? "Core" is apple, and everyone else sells oranges, so | you need good benchmarks to compare. | dekhn wrote: | If you're an Intel/Windows gamer, or a Linux/Nvidia GPU | server user, no. But this is a tailored product aimed at a | distinct professional class, which spends heavily on the | latest hardware that boosts their productivity. | JohnTHaller wrote: | I have a 10-core CPU with a performance advantage of 23% over | an M1 Max in Cinebench R23 (AMD 5800x) and a 1,280 CUDA core | GPU (GTX 1060 6GB) that cost a little over $1,000 US total. | | UPDATE - Sorry, I originally listed this as a 5900x by | accident. I need more sleep. | yborg wrote: | Your setup is also probably 5x larger and uses 100W more | power. It's a question of priorities. | neogodless wrote: | The 5800X is 8-core, while the 5900X is 12-core. | | You may have misread the number of cores on the box when | you bought it! | | If you go into task manager, how many logical threads are | there? | abakker wrote: | Which one? | e4e78a06 wrote: | Cinebench R23 is a worst case scenario for M1 because it | doesn't have high core utilization and sits in L2 cache. If | you look at a broader set of benchmarks (SPEC) then M1 Max | in laptop form is competitive anywhere from a 5800x to a | 5950x. | SZJX wrote: | > Bravo Apple. I'd love to see what they have in store for | designers and programmers next. | | What would you say the programmers specifically need though. A | laptop instead of a workstation? | qbasic_forever wrote: | Beautiful high resolution and crisp text rendering. I want | looking at a dense page of code to look as beautiful and | comfortable as reading a magazine. A comfortable keyboard and | trackpad are a must too. Give me as much battery life as | possible--at least a day or more. Performance, memory, and | storage are less of a bottleneck these days and today's | higher end specs are generally good enough. | egypturnash wrote: | _I want looking at a dense page of code to look as | beautiful and comfortable as reading a magazine_ | | I am trying to imagine what a page of code laid out by a | professional designer would look like and I can hear a | million programmers screaming bloody murder in my head | about the thoughtful use of whitespace, proportional-width | fonts (even though they are ones chosen to clearly | differentiate between confusing characters like 1/I and | 0/O), and the occasional change in font size for... what | _is_ the source code equivalent of a subhead, anyway? | Comments? | AlanYx wrote: | >I am trying to imagine what a page of code laid out by a | professional designer would look like.... | | You'll probably love this paper: | https://arxiv.org/abs/2008.06030 | | Nicolas Rougier has also implemented a few of those ideas | in a series of packages for Emacs called "NANO Emacs"; | the actual implementation goes beyond what's discussed in | the paper and is worth checking out. | alwillis wrote: | _I am trying to imagine what a page of code laid out by a | professional designer would look like and I can hear a | million programmers screaming bloody murder in my head | about the thoughtful use_ | | There are beautiful programmer fonts nowadays that look | amazing on Apple's high resolution screens. | | There are several GUIs for Vim/Neovim that take advantage | of the GPU and the text rendering abilities of modern | computers in general and Macs in particular [1]. | | And once you get used to seeing your code this way, it's | hard to go back. | | [1]: https://github.com/neovide/neovide | ChrisMarshallNY wrote: | _> I 'd love to see what they have in store for designers and | programmers next._ | | We're not really their target audience. Back when they had a | rack server, they had something that looked good to us, but | we're not really the ones that will buy a maxxed-out Studio. | | It's an interesting machine. It definitely is aimed at folks | that would get Pros, beforehand. With the hint dropped at the | end of the Studio presentation, I suspect that they may | announce some crazy Pro, in the coming months. | JohnWhigham wrote: | Jony Ive leaving was a massive improvement for Apple. | hughrr wrote: | This. So much this. | | Getting what we need not what Jony says we needed. | kube-system wrote: | Jony contributed what he could. I think Apple is better off | for having had him for a period of time, but that time has | passed. | scyzoryk_xyz wrote: | This. He brought along the kind of design philosophy that | was very much needed in devices. But that philosophy | became the new normal, and pushing it to it's purest | level did not end up being what everyone wants. | | Products and needs evolve and change. Saying bad things | about the man is nasty especially considering his gentle | nature. Especially that we really actually don't know who | is exactly responsible for what in that world. | drcode wrote: | "Creatives" don't want a stylus or touchscreen to do their | creative stuff? | wmf wrote: | Wacom | neor wrote: | They are doing a great job. 180 turnaround from the company | that wanted their products to look clean above usable. | | Only downside to me is that in such relatively expensive | hardware they should have doubled all storage options. Starting | at 512GB for the entry spec and 1TB for the high end spec is | rather low. | whiteboardr wrote: | This. | | I don't care if a laptop is a tad thicker, or the aesthetics | would allow the device to sit in a museum - Ive helped make | them desireable objects, the iPhone provided the scale and | momentum and Apple silicon in macs at last allows for focus on | actual usability. This set of kit will pave the way for a | revolution in how we think about computing. | | Indeed, Bravo! | hughrr wrote: | Also the impressive things for me are it's actually really | cheap, as in bargain territory, and you don't have to piss | around with HP sales drones to actually get one like the Z | series. | rconti wrote: | It's insane how boldly (for Apple) they focused on ports and | cables. I can't remember a previous demo video that showed so | many ugly cables hanging out the back of the machine. They've | finally realized it's a selling point! | jollybean wrote: | On that kind of device it doesn't cost them much and those | features are more appreciated. It's not much of a war. On the | laptops it becomes a bit more of a design conundrum. I'd | imagine they have different leadership teams, and, Jobs + Ive | are both gone. So there's that. | ilamont wrote: | My jaw hit the floor when I saw USB A ports. If only it had | multiple HDMI ... | assttoasstmgr wrote: | And yet none on the front. So your shoebox full of thumb | drives are useless and you have to plug them in from | behind. | | Just to be clear yes I know USB-C thumb drives exist but | they are next to useless because their whole purpose is to | shuttle files between devices. Devices that likely don't | have USB-C yet. | scns wrote: | I gifted a thumb drive with USB A on one side and USB C | on the other. | dylan604 wrote: | just connect that USB-A hub you know you already have and | plug in all the USB-A thumb drives you can fit. | G3rn0ti wrote: | > My jaw hit the floor when I saw USB A ports. | | Don't forget the headphone jack! | bowmessage wrote: | so brave! | runjake wrote: | They did better with the limited space they have -- they | included a bunch of multi-functional USB-C ports that can | be used with dongles for additional HDMI ports! | yupper32 wrote: | "With the limited space they have"? They chose how much | space they had to work with... | dylan604 wrote: | Because nobody outside hardcore computer nerds wants a | beige box tower with 14 drive bays sitting on their desk. | People want quite little boxes that gets work done | without having to have dedicated room for loud machines. | assttoasstmgr wrote: | Are you referring to the front panel which is about 3.5" | high x 7.7" wide and about 90% an empty blank face? | paulmd wrote: | USB-C can also carry a DisplayPort link natively, and you | don't even need a dongle for that. Workstations don't | really care about HDMI, that's for TVs. | | Not only that but with the Ultra variant, all of the | USB-C ports are thunderbolt 4 ports at 80gb/s, that's a | massive amount of IO. | | (note that despite the number of ports - only 4 of them | can be running displays, plus the HDMI port gets its own | channel) | nicoburns wrote: | > Workstations don't really care about HDMI, that's for | TVs. | | And people who only have HDMI cables! I was using display | port on my old MacBook, but I'm using HDMI on the new one | as I already had an HDMI cable, but not a USB-C to | DisplayPort one. | [deleted] | brailsafe wrote: | What would you use multiple HDMI ports for? Do you | exclusively use HDMI only screens/tv? | scottkuo wrote: | Drive additional outputs to broadcast/production displays | ilamont wrote: | So I don't have to use a dongle for a second screen. They | break, come loose, and sometimes don't work with Apple | equipment. | johnmaguire wrote: | No need for a dongle. Thunderbolt/USBC-DisplayPort cables | exist. | runjake wrote: | I do this, and it supports 144 hz. | girvo wrote: | I do this, and sadly it won't do 4K at 144hz, at least | not with my Intel MacBook. Maybe the M1 can do it? | drorco wrote: | I haven't yet seen screens with USB-C support that have | refresh rates higher than 60hz, unfortunately. | johnmaguire wrote: | Why does the screen need USB-C support? I imagine you'd | use a Thunderbolt/USBC-DisplayPort cable or similar. | drorco wrote: | For cases when you have let's say a gaming PC and a | Macbook connected to the same screen. You want a USB-C | port so the Macbook will get everything from a single | USB-C port (power included), but you also want your | gaming PC to benefit from a high performance monitor with | high refresh rates on a DisplayPort/HDMI connection. | johnmaguire wrote: | Isn't this what a dock is for? Are you treating your | monitor itself as the dock? I still don't see why the | monitor itself needs USB-C support. | | I use a Lenovo Thunderbolt dock for both my M1 16" MBP | and a Lenovo laptop running Linux. It runs 2 x | DisplayPort monitors, mouse, keyboard, and webcam. | paulmd wrote: | yes, basically the idea is with a USB-C display the | monitor can be your dock | brailsafe wrote: | Ya agreed. I have a similar setup and would love an easy | was for both to use the same screen and peripherals | bni wrote: | USB-C to Displayport cable. I use a 144Hz gaming screen | with my Mac mini in this way | bonestamp2 wrote: | Which display are you using and does it wake up properly | when you wake your mac mini? I've had a problem with | displays that wake up normally with an intel based mac | but not with an M1 mac. | deagle50 wrote: | I'm also using a 144hz monitor (Samsung 28" G70A) with a | DP-USB-C cable. Wakes up normally and VRR works both with | my new MBP (M1 Pro) and with the previous MBA (M1). | nebula8804 wrote: | Is it an ASUS display? I have had multiple ASUS displays | exhibit this problem. I think I have replicated it with | other non-Apple machines as well. | brailsafe wrote: | Like others have mentioned, I've used displayport over | usb-c for high-refresh rate at high resolution. Atm I'm | using that for low-refresh rate 30" screen. Though I | believe LG and Dell screens do have USB-C directly. | cassianoleal wrote: | I have one of these [0]. Goes up to 144Hz, single cable | to hook up laptop to display and charge. | | [0] https://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-38WN95C-W | drorco wrote: | Cool. Does G-SYNC/FreeSync work with the USB-C port? | deagle50 wrote: | It does on my Samsung G70A with a DP-USB-C cable. | kjagiello wrote: | Check out Gigabyte M28U/M32U. 4k & 144 Hz. DisplayPort | over USB-C. Supports alt-mode. | caeril wrote: | > customers actually want | | Almost. The hardware looks fantastic all-around. But the | hostility to running an actually-usable OS like Linux is a huge | stumbling block. Their users having to rely on the herculean | efforts of the Asahi project, et. al, is shameful for the | world's largest company. | thfuran wrote: | They're never going to try to make it easy to avoid their | ecosystem and that's not shameful for their company. If it's | shameful for anyone, it's the US regulators who have allowed | the largest companies in the world to continue vertically | integrating. | avar wrote: | The chassis seems to be around the right size for a DIY project | of combining it with an iMac G4 swivel display [1]. | | With a modern display it would make for a really nice 3rd party | accessory. | | 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30576310 | BonoboIO wrote: | The design of it looks a bit off to me. Like a cheap mac-ish | intel nuc designed by huawei with their matebooks. | | https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/29/17396818/huawei-matebook-... | neal_jones wrote: | Agreed | ghostly_s wrote: | I just don't get why they wouldn't turn those usb-c ports the | other way so they line up nicely with the sd slot.... | the-golden-one wrote: | like this? https://twitter.com/thijsvlierop/status/1501295909 | 275111425?... | brimble wrote: | It looks like they made a taller computer then cut it off 2/3 | of the way down. Something about the proportions read as simply | _wrong_. | BonoboIO wrote: | But if it works, well its better than Jony Ive's ,,design is | everything, function is last" approach. | | - Like the Mac Pro (2013) which was thermal limited even with | the launch configuration and could not be refreshed because | more power would mean less power through throttling | | - Magic Mouse 2 which well u could not use while charging | | - Macbook Pro Touchbar which is there because there was | nothing else to ,,inovate" | | - MacBook Pro Keyboard which is so thin and lookin good that | the owner has to replace it every 6 month | brimble wrote: | I agree with some of this, but will note that actually | using a Magic Mouse 2 cured me of joking about the design | (I was entirely on the "LOL how dumb" train before that). | It wasn't an issue, in practice, and did keep me from just | using it plugged in all the time (which is what I tend to | do with other wireless things at my desk that have | integrated rechargeable batteries). | infinityio wrote: | I think the main issue with the magic mouse 2 is that | over time, as the batteries wear out, the effective life | of the mouse risks dropping so much that you may | eventually be unable to use it for a full work-day, | whereas the previous solution of AA batteries had | 'infinite' longevity - while it wouldn't be too much of | an issue when new, it harms the resale value | brimble wrote: | That makes sense as a legit problem. Reminds me of people | going "LOL WTF do you need 12 hours of battery life for?" | about the new M1 laptops. Well, for one, more battery | life is always nice, and for another, it'll be _really_ | nice to still have 8 hours of battery life when the | laptop 's seen five heavy years of use without a battery | replacement. I could see a few-years-old Magic Mouse 2 | getting to be kinda shitty, sure. | dmje wrote: | The clauses on those sentences don't scan. | | Stunningly compact. Extensive connectivity. Outrageous | performance. | | I mean, you've gotta either go | | Stunning size. Extensive connectivity. Outrageous performance. | | or | | Stunningly compact Extensively connected. Outrageously | performant. | | Anyway. Not sure anyone apart from me will care. | mkaic wrote: | Eh, reads fine to me. Helps break up the list so that people | don't just skim over it, I'd guess. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-03-08 23:00 UTC)