[HN Gopher] Deepfakes, can you spot them?
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       Deepfakes, can you spot them?
        
       Author : T-A
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2022-03-08 20:19 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (detectfakes.media.mit.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (detectfakes.media.mit.edu)
        
       | aidanhs wrote:
       | Honestly, I struggled with this overall.
       | 
       | For context: I'm mostly unaware of actions of US presidents
       | (beyond the broad sweeps based on left vs right) and I've at most
       | listened to Trump and Biden maybe a couple of times for a total
       | of ~1min in the last few years - just doing this exercise has
       | probably at least doubled my exposure.
       | 
       | I found the text and voice mostly impossible unless the content
       | clued me in. Video was a little easier because I know to look for
       | teeth, video with sound was fairly easy.
       | 
       | Is there a generic trick for recognising faked voices without
       | really knowing the original (similar to looking for teeth on
       | videos)?
        
         | bobsmooth wrote:
         | For the speech clips I thought the disjointedness of the words
         | made it obvious. That being said, Trump has a very recognizable
         | way of talking so his clips were really easy to sort.
        
       | mywacaday wrote:
       | Why doesn't the survey give you a score after completion? Very
       | frustrating!
        
         | leto_ii wrote:
         | Yes! Or even better, a score distribution together with your
         | percentile.
        
       | smdz wrote:
       | The audio gives away. The fake audio is either of too monotonic
       | or rythmic like singing a song
        
       | dogman144 wrote:
       | Been wondering about this in context of UKR and the huge role of
       | open source intel via mobile phone videos in it. For
       | understandable reasons it's not part of the discussion right now
       | but there might be interesting retrospectives about this
       | available down the line.
        
       | junon wrote:
       | These are super easy compared to some I've seen.
       | 
       | Anyway, THANK YOU site developers for properly handling
       | resumption of progress and not abusing the history API. Greatly
       | appreciated and unfortunately very rare for these sorts of sites.
        
       | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
       | The quality of the fakes is atrocious. Their audio clips don't
       | even sound like deep fakes. They just sound like really terrible
       | amateur impersonators.
        
         | pqdbr wrote:
         | I only did 13, and got 100% right.
        
         | alpb wrote:
         | Mildly surprised the quality of this project coming out of MIT.
         | Not only the UI was quite hard to use, I could not get beyond
         | 10 samples. They were annoyingly obvious. Why would they not
         | choose to not to make this as tricky as possible?
        
       | squeaky-clean wrote:
       | I only did 12 of them before exiting but got 100% of them. I
       | watched them on my phone without turning it landscape to simulate
       | how I'd normally watch a brief news clip like this.
       | 
       | They're still not particularly convincing, especially the audio
       | ones sound very fake.
       | 
       | But I think these sorts of tests are flawed. The fact that it's a
       | test primes you to look for these details in a way you might not
       | if these clips were shared on Twitter/Reddit/etc. The deepfakes
       | are still pretty obviously fake, so I don't think I'd fall for
       | one "in the wild". But I also see this style of test used for
       | things like "can you hear the difference between these 2 audio
       | compression formats" or "does this virtual guitar amp sound just
       | like the real thing", and that's just not how you consume real
       | media. For example I'd probably never know Meshuggah switched to
       | entirely digital guitar amps years ago if it weren't for them
       | saying it in interviews.
       | 
       | When deepfakes one day do get as close to the real thing as
       | digital guitar amps have gotten to real amps, I doubt I'd notice
       | a random r/worldnews post is faked, even if I could still
       | reliably pass an A/B test.
        
       | sebow wrote:
       | The video look worse than "professional fakes" long even before
       | AI.Text is the hardest for people who don't follow those specific
       | people(though it is still easy to spot the fake), and audio is
       | very easy aswell.
       | 
       | Not boasting, just reality.I've seen some pretty astounding
       | deepfakes, these are not part of those.
        
       | alamortsubite wrote:
       | Given how easy the fakes are to spot, the delay the devs put on
       | activating the submit button is frustrating.
        
       | NewEntryHN wrote:
       | The best deepfake I've seen is the Tom Cruise one
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyiOVUbsPcM
        
         | hombre_fatal wrote:
         | Whoever makes those is an artist. Those impressions alone are
         | great.
        
       | seg_lol wrote:
       | We should send in Sassy Justice to investigate right now!
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/c/SassyJustice/featured
        
       | RosanaAnaDana wrote:
       | There is a smoothness to the fake audio and video with audio
       | clips that makes them very obvious.
        
       | arez wrote:
       | This is too easy, I struggled a bit with no sound but video to
       | detect real or fake because the lighting can be a bit weird but
       | for the voices you can hear it in a split second that they're
       | fake
        
         | Arainach wrote:
         | Agreed. The video and text fakes are getting better, but the
         | audio (at least here) isn't close. It's not even an uncanny
         | valley, it's worse than an SNL parody.
         | 
         | In cases without audio, watching the lips for sync was also a
         | reliable giveaway.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | It's almost so bad it's trying to convince people they're
           | better at detecting deepfakes than they actually are ...
        
             | boomboomsubban wrote:
             | I only did about half of the samples, but things became
             | harder further in. I'm not sure if they were better done or
             | I was just becoming bored and losing focus though.
        
       | version_five wrote:
       | I didn't do the test. My first thought was that it's the wrong
       | question. A "trusted sources" model for believing stuff can
       | always be gamed. There should be more focus on independent
       | confirmation, and general sanity checking, rather than caring
       | about whether a video is fake or not, especially if one is going
       | to take some action based on the content.
        
         | cf141q5325 wrote:
         | Why the downvote? I think he is making a solid point. Just
         | trusting your senses will become problematic fast.
        
       | leto_ii wrote:
       | This was an unsatisfying experience. The visual and audio fakes
       | are easy to spot, while the texts are short enough and correct
       | enough that you don't have enough to go with in making a
       | technical decision. I did however get them right by trying to
       | figure out if the statement made sense in the context of the
       | respective politician's general stance on the issue discussed.
       | 
       | Update:
       | 
       | Come to think of it, IRL text deep fakes don't even make sense.
       | You can make up whatever quotes you like, you don't need GPT3 to
       | do it for you.
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | > Come to think of it, IRL text deep fakes don't even make
         | sense. You can make up whatever quotes you like, you don't need
         | GPT3 to do it for you.
         | 
         | Exactly. John Oliver pointed out a few weeks ago that the
         | Russian media was using stock footage of other nation's
         | military actions (Finland?) for propaganda. No need for deep
         | fakes. The lowest effort lie can still work.
         | 
         | Deep fake tech is the new photoshop. It's mostly used for good
         | (art, memes, jokes with friends, Disney films).
         | 
         | You can imagine a future where deep fakes are utterly
         | indistinguishable from real life, but I think that people will
         | learn to recalibrate themselves against the new technologies.
         | It may even cause us to think more critically: people
         | frequently chime in, "how is this not photoshopped?" on social
         | media. They'll call out videos of explosions and physics as
         | "looking fake". They'll have the same response to purported
         | deep faked videos.
         | 
         | All the same, I'm glad and appreciate that academic and policy
         | folks are taking a close look at the technology. We need
         | frameworks, ethics, and institutional familiarity.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Traster wrote:
       | Honestly, I think this level of "fakery" is a little... facile.
       | Firstly, practically no one judges individual clips, they're
       | judging based on who is bringing it to them and who they trust.
       | Secondly, Donald Trump could say the most dispicable things and
       | still get elected. People seem to forget that Trump got caught on
       | a hot mic admitting to sexually assaulting women, and that he got
       | elected _after_ that.
        
       | tiborsaas wrote:
       | This was very easy. I skipped the text based ones, I can't keep
       | up with the random things politicians say :)
        
       | Miner49er wrote:
       | I'm pretty certain that in at least one of these Trump is
       | standing in front of a green screen, I put fabricated, but I
       | guess that was wrong to do because that wasn't fabricated with
       | AI? Either way this said it was real, which yeah it was, but the
       | setting was faked. Idk.
        
       | radford-neal wrote:
       | The test seems flawed. I got the first one (after the attention
       | check) wrong - I said it was fake, but it was real. I thought it
       | was fake because Trump's hair was clearly very smeared out, not
       | at all realistic. But it seems that this must have been an
       | artifact of heavy video compression. I don't see how this is a
       | meaningful test of anything.
        
         | eropple wrote:
         | Most social video on the internet is over compressed junk. I
         | was surprised when they used clips that _weren 't_.
        
           | radford-neal wrote:
           | Yeah, but how is the test taker supposed to know whether to
           | take the smearing as indicating it's fake or not?
           | 
           | Better would be to let them see 10 videos all at once, half
           | of which are fake, and ask them to divide into a fake set of
           | 5 and a real set of 5, after looking at all of them as many
           | times as they like. Asking "fake or real" when there is no
           | basis to tell whether flaws should be taken as indicating
           | "fake" or just attributed to compression seems meaningless.
           | 
           | Or tell people what aspects of fakeness they're trying to
           | assess - eg, forget about video artifacts, just pay attention
           | to the audio.
           | 
           | Using clips of Trump and Biden is also a bad idea. They ask
           | you to say if you've seen one before, but aren't many people
           | going to have seen one, but not clearly remember that, and
           | then be influenced to think it's real by sub-conscious
           | recognition?
           | 
           | Why not present pairs of videos of the same non-famous
           | person, one fake one real, both presented with the same
           | amount of compression, and ask one to chose which is the real
           | one? Using many different people, of course - why would you
           | introduce doubt about the generality of your results by using
           | only two people?
           | 
           | Of course, in practice people may be less able to recognize
           | fakes when video quality is poor, which would be useful to
           | know, but I think one would need to investigate that issue
           | separately, not in combination with other reasons that fakes
           | might or might not be recognizable.
        
       | qw3rty01 wrote:
       | I really wish they took actual things the individual said in the
       | past, but used a deepfake for them actually saying it. Most of
       | the deepfakes were easy to spot, but a couple weren't clear at
       | first that they were fake, only to be given away by the content
       | of their speech.
        
         | bufferoverflow wrote:
         | The point of a deep fake is usually for the fake to say
         | something new and outrageous.
        
           | squeaky-clean wrote:
           | It doesn't necessarily have to be. For example what if you
           | modified a clip of a political candidate asking for funding
           | and only modified the name of the organization/website their
           | supporters should go to in order to donate.
        
       | orblivion wrote:
       | You know, I sort of don't want to help them figure out which ones
       | are more believable.
        
         | fancymcpoopoo wrote:
         | maybe the research is really about identifying you as a liar
        
       | kerblang wrote:
       | My favorite deep fake is still Sassy Justice
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WfZuNceFDM
       | 
       | Ha it keeps on giving, note the picture on wall at
       | https://youtu.be/9WfZuNceFDM
        
       | marstall wrote:
       | any kind of information can contain falsehoods - and every form
       | of discourse has its biases. so consider the source - and
       | consider multiple sources!
        
       | cf141q5325 wrote:
       | For better audio check the channel Vocal Synthesis
       | 
       | >Barack Obama reads the Navy Seals Copypasta (Speech Synthesis)
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_MZI2YFWgI
       | 
       | Or here him reading Trumps inauguration speech
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChzEdz7aVVs
       | 
       | All based on
       | https://ai.googleblog.com/2017/12/tacotron-2-generating-huma...
        
       | bloaf wrote:
       | Yes.
       | 
       | The video fakes are always blurry around the mouth and gestures
       | don't match the words.
       | 
       | The audio fakes are too "clean" (too defined breaks between words
       | and no background noise) and sound like caricatures.
       | 
       | Text is virtually impossible because politicians say "fake" stuff
       | all the time (e.g. speeches someone else wrote) so you can't rely
       | on uncharacteristic language.
        
         | bobsmooth wrote:
         | I found the grammar of the fake text just off enough to pick
         | them out consistently.
        
       | ComradePhil wrote:
       | Too easy.
       | 
       | Also, the fake ones with audio or text from Trump are way too
       | easy for anyone who has seen Trump over the years to guess (as
       | opposed to those who know Trump from "comedy news shows" from the
       | last few years)... because Trump wouldn't say some of those
       | things (anti-gay marriage stuff, for example).
       | 
       | Biden is a bit more difficult to guess like that because he could
       | have said anything which he thought would be popular at a given
       | point throughout his career... but then the technology is too bad
       | to actually be convincing enough.
        
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