[HN Gopher] Inside Putin's Circle ___________________________________________________________________ Inside Putin's Circle Author : mayiplease Score : 109 points Date : 2022-03-11 21:01 UTC (1 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.ft.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.ft.com) | te_chris wrote: | Excellent and thorough piece of writing | user249 wrote: | zaptrem wrote: | Building and exporting weapons is illegal (without lots of | government approval). Attacking computer systems of other | countries is illegal (even if they're Russia). Russians already | have all the tools they need to bypass censorship. | | Do you have any ideas? | zozbot234 wrote: | Two of the biggest plausible leverage points for intervention | are (1) supporting free press directed towards Russia and | Belarus, and enabling ordinary people to stay informed even | given the Russian and Belarusian governments' predictable | attempts at censorship. There's a long history of providing | this sort of aid to North Koreans, and the situation in those | countries may well turn out to be rather similar. (2) | fostering economic development and a favorable political | climate in Russia's and Belarus' closest competitor | countries. Not enough attention is being paid to this, | luckily enough these are mostly countries where real | improvement may be feasible even with comparatively modest | means. It is absolutely possible to work with high | effectiveness against the plausible aims of this special | operation, even as direct military action is set aside being | irrelevant to average HNers. | int_19h wrote: | Not OP, but Russians don't necessarily have easy access to | those tools, or won't have it going forward. Running Tor | nodes or organizing to provide VPN access is something that | all of us can do. | 01100011 wrote: | HN is a tech news aggregator website. Some of us are more | active in the appropriate forums. Do you leave comments on | cooking websites suggesting they need to take action? | user249 wrote: | People who cook could help in their own way. Hacker News is | has people who could tell you about how to run a botnet hack, | mount an effective DDOS or the appropriate type of crypto to | donate and how to get it. | | Nevermind, though. I'm just feeling helpless and want to do | something. I need to think a little deeper about it. | jdrc wrote: | Tbh there is too much non-tech news | hvs wrote: | Hacker News isn't an activist group, it's a tech website. | Individuals on this site may or may not be "doing" something | about Ukraine but there is no reason to associate this with HN | being "good" or "bad". | | I've seen this sentiment in other places as well. Everything | doesn't have to be coopted into activism for the current cause. | memonkey wrote: | Did you expect HN to have that same drive for countries like | Somalia, Afghanistan, Syria and Palestine? | jdrc wrote: | No because the western economy is insulated from those | tunesmith wrote: | I'm not as surprised, given the kind of discussion we've seen | the last few years. Hacker News main audience isn't true | hackers. A large proportion of its readers are techno- | libertarian startup/venture corporatists, many with an | authoritarian bent. | hereforphone wrote: | I'm thankful that HN is (kind of) remaining an island of | politics-light STEM discussion, differentiating itself from the | angsty college protestor vibe of places like Reddit. The | response is muted because 1) increased maturity, and 2) | moderation. | hanselot wrote: | DamnYuppie wrote: | Business, despite all its press and media to the contrary, | isn't war. People are not dying and suffering and you don't | really face any repercussions from your actions. War is a | totally different thing so asking people to "move fast and | break things" doesn't really make sense in that context | especially when there are actual physical repercussions. | | Also why should the people on this site really care? Honestly I | get it is not great but in the grand scheme of things I don't | care. I am tired of war, I have watched my friends and family | members server in wars for this country since the early 90's. I | don't recall Ukraine sending f*ck all for them. As such I just | don't have it in me to give a sh*t at this point in time. | beebmam wrote: | >Also why should the people on this site really care? | | Would you care if gangsters showed up at your house and told | you that everything you owned now belongs to his gang? Would | you care if that happened to your neighbor? | | If you think this will never happen to you, think again. This | world is a brutal place filled with people that would take | from you every single thing you hold dear without a blink of | an eye. | trhway wrote: | > I don't recall Ukraine sending f*ck all for them. | | so, you're holding against Ukraine that they were peaceful | and didn't participated in other countries destructions all | this time? | geoka9 wrote: | > Also why should the people on this site really care? | | This war is the closest we've been to a nuclear war since the | Caribbean Crisis in 1962. Especially if Russia wins. | worik wrote: | We will be much closer if Russia cannot win | jdrc wrote: | That severely underestimates the consequences of this war in | business | altdataseller wrote: | OK, give us some suggestions. And tell us what you are doing | too. | kenjackson wrote: | In many cases asking forgiveness is easier. In this case, I'm | not so sure. | thesausageking wrote: | What should we do? What have you done? | IncRnd wrote: | Why are you frustrated? Have you mentioned here what you are | doing to help Ukraine? If you haven't done things or have | helped but not mentioned that here, why should others mention | what they may be doing? | SirYandi wrote: | I know this is a selfish perspective but the Ukraine/Russia | news cycle has been hitting my mental health pretty hard. Its | nice to come here and see the usual interesting techy stuff and | get a break from the horror. | | Not that I disagree with your point. This is a place of | intelligent discussion which could perhaps benefit Ukrainians | better. | galaxyLogic wrote: | Yes HN is supposed to be about intellectually interesting | ideas. And the fight against war and fascism needs those | because otherwise we are in deep sh*t. So why not combine the | two? | | The situation with Russia is much about information. HN is | about information and IT, no? HN could be the primary forum | to discuss ways to counter MIS-information. | | There seems to be a deep problem in Russia, its citizens are | mostly duped by misinformation pushed by their government. | What kind of intelligent solutions exist or could be | developed to counter that? | hanselot wrote: | hurflmurfl wrote: | Just this once, I want to contribute a "view from the | inside" on how things work in Russia [in my opinion]. | | Sure, some people are hoodwinked by the propaganda. | However, a weird misunderstanding is that "if they new what | the Truth was, they would surely relent". | | From what I've gathered growing up in Russia, that's not | quite the case. I don't know why, but a lot of people here | have a very apathetic view on politics. In that even if | they knew all the "real truth", they wouldn't go into | "fight mode", but would instead go into "man, same shit as | usual, our life's about to get harder" mode. | | I've just chatted with some friends who don't support the | war effort in any way and are just as dismayed as your | average European Joe (Giuseppe??) (and they have relatives | in Ukraine too). What struck me really hard is that once | again I had a glimpse of this weird mentality, whereby the | person laments being in bad circumstances and start doing a | lot of planning (and hoping) on how to deal with the coming | misfortunes. Taking control of the change and nipping the | said misfortune in the bud is just plain out of sight! | | With this in mind, the problem that needs to be solved, in | my opinion, is the "victim mentality" in the population, | rather than the "misinformation", since "solving" | misinformation would seem to push people into the usual | victim loop. | | Just my 2 cents, and I'm no one and my opinion is based | solely on more than a decade of life in Russia. | shoo wrote: | I reckon the population of hacker news has drifted tremendously | over the last decade. More content about the general grind of | corporate tech industry, less focus on entrepreneurship. Many | people in the tech industry who read and comment on HN are | focused on exploiting the status quo and enjoying salaries | offered by roles in large corporations | | Perhaps one consequence of this drift is that people with more | radical activist leanings, who are more likely to actually do | something, are going to be more likely to hang out and discuss | somewhere else rather than here | | (i am not pointing any fingers, i haven't engaged in any kind | of activism for years and grind away at the IT day job in | exchange for salary.) | | edit: the above argument lazily conflates people interested in | tech industry entrepreneurship with people interested in | activism. that doesn't make much sense, both groups will have | quite different goals and often be in conflict. but i think | there is definitely a drift where much of the people following | tech industry news here on HN will be increasingly mainstream & | functionally conservative. | jdrc wrote: | Where else? | 2-718-281-828 wrote: | can somebody tell me why pretty much any (even random) | configuration sounds kind of good? | edhowzerblack wrote: | CapsAdmin wrote: | kinda funny how it sort of reads: | | Inside Putin's circle -- the real Russian elite. An intelligent | take on global lifestyle, arts and culture | | - Insightful reads | | - Interviews & reviews | | - The FT Crossword | | - Travel, houses, entertainment & style | galaxyLogic wrote: | And all behind paywall, as if they didn't want you to see | what they are writing. | | In time of crisis like this you should expect FT to do at | least a token contribution to spread true information. Other | commercial news outlets like say New York Times let the | casual reader read a few articles for free, but not FT it | seems. | andrewflnr wrote: | Which is why someone helpfully posted an archive link. | cbg0 wrote: | https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2... | mekkkkkk wrote: | I read an incredibly thorough book about Putin a year or so ago, | and what stuck with me is how political his career in the KGB | was. In those final years of the USSR, everything was in | shambles, and any position of power became so through-and-through | political. That makes his rise so interesting and frightening. He | has been forged in a dark web of covert slush funds, power | projection and kompramat. He was obviously very good at that | game, and it continues today. | | EDIT: The book was "Putin's People" by Catherine Belton | stjohnswarts wrote: | Seems to me like he has lost that and becoming just an angry | old man playing with people's lives because he can. | [deleted] | agumonkey wrote: | there's also long interviews from 2017~ on PBS Frontline IIRC, | a series called "Putin files" | | Julia Ioffe, Masha Gessen | | It's partial but has a lot of detail | | On the other side there are the Russian friendly views such as | Mearsheimer or even Stone. | | It's difficult to weigh what is true (even though I'm biased | anti aggressor in this case) | JumpCrisscross wrote: | "I believe, however, that Putin and the _siloviki_ (though not | many in the wider elites) welcome this isolation [from the west]. | They are becoming impressed with the Chinese model: a | tremendously dynamic economy, a disciplined society and a growing | military superpower ruled over with iron control by a hereditary | elite that combines huge wealth with deep patriotism, promoting | the idea of China as a separate and superior civilisation. " | | Money quote. | hcarvalhoalves wrote: | The idea of a centralised planned state fell with the USSR, and | it was widely argued that it fell _because_ of central | planning. China is becoming a counter-example for the people | who have always been fond of the idea of having a state ruled | by an "elite", with the perception that democracy is fragile | and doesn't work for long-term (more than a 4/5 years mandate) | planning. | AnimalMuppet wrote: | But Putin and Co don't seem to have the tools to create a | dynamic economy or a disciplined society. They may admire | China; they can't follow the pattern. | yborg wrote: | The "Chinese model" is as old as civilization and has been | implemented and collapsed many times in China itself. If Putin | establishes a new czarist dynasty in Russia, it will end up | just like the last one. | mmaunder wrote: | I've been a paid subscriber of FT for years. It's horrifically | expensive and worth every penny. | tatrajim wrote: | I was a subscriber for ten years, but gave up on them over | mediocre coverage of important issues in the US and East Asia, | about which I had some knowledge. Relying on their reporting | risked costing me money in my investment decisions. | notyourwork wrote: | I had to check pricing after reading your comment. $375/year! | That sounds crazy. | ghaff wrote: | New York Times is around $200. The Economist is something | north of $100. So the FT is on the high side but hardly out | of the ballpark. | jfk13 wrote: | Does a dollar a day sound more affordable? Just read the news | over a cup of home-brewed coffee instead of getting a take- | out, and you should easily break even. :) | dangrossman wrote: | If I'm going out to get my avocado toast anyway, it only | makes sense to get the coffee with it since I'm right | there. Maybe they should let me round up my change to get | the day's FT news with my coffee at Starbucks instead. | notyourwork wrote: | For me, no it doesn't. | melony wrote: | That's cheap compared to the Bloomberg terminal. High quality | news is not free (news is not necessarily the same as | journalism). | bogomipz wrote: | A related Op/Ed piece from yesterday regarding his inner circle | and his isolation over the last couple of years: | | "How Vladimir Putin Lost Interest in the Present": | https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukra... | Animats wrote: | That's a very useful and important article. So that's who Putin | talks to. A very small group who share his worldview: It is the | manifest destiny of Mother Russia to have an empire in Eastern | Europe. | | A key point that has emerged from a number of sources is that | Putin's crowd has no plan B. This isn't considered by Russia's | leadership to be just a military adventure - if it works, great, | if it doesn't work, pull back and try something else. It's a | must-win operation. | | Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is | killed. | worik wrote: | > Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is | killed. | | Or Russia wins | stjohnswarts wrote: | that's not going to happen. When they try to take a NATO | country it's over for them. Possibly over for all of us. | mayiplease wrote: | https://archive.ph/RXgCG | doe88 wrote: | Another interesting opinion piece in NYT on this subject | https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukra... | ordu wrote: | _> These men are known in Russia as the "siloviki" -- "men of | force", or perhaps even, in the Irish phrase, "hard men"._ | | Just to clarify. The word "siloviki" made from "silovye | struktury", which may be translated literally as "structures of | force", or less literally but preserving some meaning "armed | organizations" (maybe "armed forces", but I think that in English | "armed forces" doesn't include the likes of police and security | guards). It refers to police, military or any other organization | with a dress code that requires a gun. | lordnacho wrote: | > other organization with a dress code that requires a gun | | Sounds a lot like organized crime, is it supposed to have that | undertone? | skrtskrt wrote: | or mercenaries/"private security" | xxs wrote: | >is it supposed to have that undertone? | | nope. the 2nd word means "structures" and it implies part of | the state. | hunterb123 wrote: | > other organization with a dress code that requires a gun | | No, _that_ sounds like any armed _forces_ , police _force_ , | the secret service, etc. | ordu wrote: | Policemen wear guns, and it doesn't sound like an organized | crime. | | The root of the word "siloviki" is "sila", which means | "force". And it is about using force in order to perform | their job. Like policemen do. Or security guards. Or | soldiers. | | And it is not used to refer to crime activities. They also | use force, but they are not "siloviki". | sgt101 wrote: | In some places, in theory, the police use consent of the | overwhelming majority to do their job. | cjmcqueen wrote: | Force or power was how I see the translation. These are | people using their force or power to their own agenda. It's | a useful name IMHO | IncRnd wrote: | > Sounds a lot like organized crime, is it supposed to have | that undertone? | | As does "Department of Homeland Security". That was the first | federal agency named that way, and prior to that people would | have thought that sort of naming to be associated with the | Stassi or a totalitarian regime. I suppose it is commonplace | now. | fragmede wrote: | Unconscious bias at work. Russians aren't mostly mobsters | wearing Adidas track suits, despite what you see on TV and in | movies. | thanatos519 wrote: | "other organization with a dress code that requires a gun" = | mafia. | watwut wrote: | Not all mafia have dress code. Some do, but it is not norm or | anything. | benatkin wrote: | A dress code could require wearing a gun (i. e. wearing | both a gun and a holster - when someone puts a vest on you | say they're wearing a vest even if the vest only touches | the shirt - ditto shoes and long socks) and nothing else | and it would still be a dress code. I would even say that a | policy that you can wear anything is a dress code in the | same way the unlicense is a license. | | I think that _undercover_ or _plainclothes_ in most cases | has enough rules that it constitutes a dress code. | twelve40 wrote: | yes, definitely not "hard men", more like what you described, | except various intelligence agencies who don't always wear a | gun, are also included. | ordu wrote: | Well, FSB is an intelligence agency, and they wear guns or at | least have a license to wear gun. | | Though I cannot argue. I rely on my intuitive knowledge of | Russian which is hard to use as a rational argument. This | knowledge tells me that "silovye struktury"/"structures of | force" are organizations that use force to solve problems. | And I think that all of them wear guns. But I may be wrong | with that last statement, and moreover language is changing, | so the generally accepted meaning of the word can differ from | what I had learnt in my childhood. | [deleted] | Koshkin wrote: | > _FSB is an intelligence agency_ | | It is a security agency, a.k.a. the "secret police." (It | does, of course, spy on the populace.) | stjohnswarts wrote: | Basically the Stasi of Russia, no? | qiskit wrote: | We get what you are trying to say, but people carry guns, | they don't wear guns. | adamc wrote: | Right, in English "wear" generally means something you can | "put on" and you can't "put a gun on" either. | | Although you can put on a holster. ;-) | stjohnswarts wrote: | Pedantry that isn't needed. Offering such things is | unneeded unless someone is asking for better wording. | SkinTaco wrote: | What were you hoping the readers of your comment would gain | from your comment? | | Apologies if this comes off abrasively. This is a genuine | question that I'm curious about the answer to. I can't | think of a better way to phrase it. | qiskit wrote: | Edification. Nobody says "wear a gun". It doesn't sound | right. Was assuming the commenter was a non-native | english speaker and was helping him out. | js2 wrote: | I'm a native U.S. English speaker and I didn't think | twice about "wear a gun". People absolutely say that. | It's not even pedantically incorrect: | | 2 (b) to carry on the person; wear a sword | | https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wear | | https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Wearing+a+gun%22&tbm=b | ks | benatkin wrote: | I'm a native english speaker and I think you're mistaken. | Both are correct. "Wear a gun" is less common but carries | an important distinction. | | I like this usage right here: | | > A gun holster is an accessory which is designed to | allow someone to wear a gun on his or her body. | | https://www.wise-geek.com/what-is-a-gun-holster.htm | ithkuil wrote: | Learning a nuance of the English language that non-native | speakers may lack (and be curious to learn)? | huhtenberg wrote: | "siloviki" is literally a "men of power" ("sila" in Russian is | "power" in English) => these include the FSB (an FBI | equivalent, or the ex-KGB in practice) and MVD (the police). | That's it. | throwawaymanbot wrote: | The Irish term "hard man" is more of a meaning about a persons | spirit/ attitude to certain things. It does mean someone you | don't want to mess with or in fact have any sort of dealings | with. (unless you can equivalently "nullify" their attitude and | there's only one thing usually that can nullify a "hard man"... | and this the cycle begins. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-03-11 23:00 UTC)