[HN Gopher] Mavis Beacon was the top typing teacher in the US, t...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Mavis Beacon was the top typing teacher in the US, then she
       vanished
        
       Author : ducaale
       Score  : 134 points
       Date   : 2022-03-13 15:59 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.independent.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.independent.co.uk)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | cols wrote:
       | Archive:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20220313160742/https://www.indep...
       | 
       | Mavis Beacon taught me to type. I don't really care if she's real
       | or not, I'll always have a soft spot for that CD!
        
         | tiahura wrote:
        
           | iratewizard wrote:
           | "America is racist" is a narrative sold by racists to sow
           | racial division.
           | 
           | Shirkey's principle. Any institution (or career race-baiter)
           | tasked with solving a problem will instead preserve the
           | problem so they can continue to solve it.
        
             | lozenge wrote:
             | What year did America go from actually being racist to just
             | pretending?
        
               | tiahura wrote:
               | I think a strong argument is to be made that in the early
               | '70s the tide turned and racism became viewed as old
               | fashioned and embarrassing.
        
               | sangnoir wrote:
               | I think a subtle distinction has to be made: being
               | _labelled_ a racist became the worst thing ever. Which
               | has led to absurd scenes where someone conducts
               | themselves in blatantly racist ways and then says
               | "That's not who I am". It has become a noun, rather than
               | a verb
        
             | ketzo wrote:
             | There's a significant divide between "America is racist"
             | and "America was founded on, and still preserves, many
             | institutions that are fundamentally biased against some
             | people."
             | 
             | I don't know many people who seriously claim that every
             | single atom of American life is racist.
        
               | iratewizard wrote:
               | People and the institutions they create are fundamentally
               | biased, period. Race isn't more important than the other
               | biases because some propaganda you saw on TV says so.
               | Stop enabling division.
        
               | _3u10 wrote:
               | No actual person thinks this but it's the take away when
               | you compress it down to memes / read about it in media.
               | 
               | America has no room for nuance, it's either every police
               | shooting is justified or every shooting isn't justified.
               | It's probably not a great way to actually run a country
               | but it makes for great media sales / entertaining
               | politics.
        
               | andrewzah wrote:
               | No. In daily life America and Americans are typically
               | nuanced. Like literally any other country.
               | 
               | It's the internet that disposes of context and nuance.
        
               | syshum wrote:
               | No the internet can do that just fine, the twitterization
               | of social media in to short quippy "bumper sicker" took
               | the worst aspects of politics (sound bites and bumper
               | stickers") and normalized that in to the "correct" way to
               | debate or discuss topics.
               | 
               | Gone where the long form threaded topics of forums,
               | usenet, etc, replaced with 180 characters quips
        
               | bbarnett wrote:
               | I'm sorry, I didn't get that, it was cut off at 180
               | chars.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | Twitter has never had a 180 character limit. It was 140
               | characters (based on the 160 character limit of SMS), but
               | it's now 380 characters.
        
               | _3u10 wrote:
               | Yes well said, that's exactly what I was trying to
               | convey.
        
           | Spooky23 wrote:
           | I think the meta-commentary re: the current zeitgeist of
           | misinformation and nonsense. Being inspired to write a
           | comment like this is probably more revealing of human
           | character.
        
           | umanwizard wrote:
           | The US isn't some kind of Nazi state. Black people holding
           | professional jobs has been considered culturally acceptable
           | for many decades. (And this by no means proves that racism
           | doesn't exist).
        
             | xattt wrote:
             | My hypothesis is that the groups that were typically
             | associated with steadfast racist views were typically
             | technically illiterate, so this intersection with Mavis
             | Beacon just didn't happen.
        
             | pessimizer wrote:
             | And let's be serious, this is a fictional black typist.
             | Secretary isn't the most high-status job. Teacher is a bit
             | more status (she's a typing teacher!), but typist could
             | also mean data entry, which is significantly worse.
             | 
             | The US has never had a problem with black servants, but
             | that's not a indicator of not being racist.
        
             | sangnoir wrote:
             | That makes sense. Polling in the early 90's showed half the
             | country was against black/white interracial marriages, but
             | no one had a problem with a black secretary/typist (which
             | did not disrupt the "social hierarchy" in people's minds)
        
         | unboxingelf wrote:
         | Blank key caps taught me to type
        
         | bladegash wrote:
         | Same here - I would likely be finger pecking to this day if not
         | for Mavis Beacon.
        
         | jrib wrote:
         | I had Mavis Beacon but AOL Instant Messenger taught me. I later
         | relearned using gtypist when I switched to dvorak 10 years
         | later though.
         | 
         | https://www.gnu.org/software/gtypist/
        
         | Ansil849 wrote:
         | > I don't really care if she's real or not
         | 
         | I don't understand comments like this. Why go through the
         | effort of articulating your lack of interest in a topic? "I
         | have no intellectual curiosity about this topic, but I figure I
         | should still comment letting the world know I have no interest
         | in this".
        
           | cjaybo wrote:
           | "They taught me how to type" sounds a lot more like fond
           | recollection than disinterest to me, but I guess we all read
           | things differently. Your way seems needlessly uncharitable,
           | though!
        
           | michaelcampbell wrote:
           | > I don't understand comments like this.
           | 
           | Interestingly, I suspect you understand it fully.
        
           | gunfighthacksaw wrote:
           | "I don't really care if" can be replaced with "regardless of
           | whether" if you have a pathological case of semantic
           | pedantry.
        
           | interestica wrote:
           | I think you missed the point of the comment. I don't think
           | this is a lack of interest in the topic per se -- it's
           | demonstrating that when using the software, there was a clear
           | separation between the 'teacher' and just using the software.
           | I had no idea she was a 'real' person (or interpreted as such
           | anyways) and always presumed it was just a 'character'.
        
           | Jaruzel wrote:
           | I think something is lost in translation here, the OP is
           | saying that emotionally it doesn't matter to them if she
           | wasn't real, they still hold her in high regard.
           | 
           | They are not saying, "I have no interest in this."
        
         | HideousKojima wrote:
         | StarCraft taught me how to type, gotta type fast if you're
         | going to trash-talk on Battle.Net
        
           | jen729w wrote:
           | Copying my mate's work (hi, mjoc101) at uni taught me to
           | type. Too many headaches looking at his printout, my screen,
           | my keyboard, forced me to use whatever tool was available on
           | the uni *nix systems.
           | 
           | One of the best things I ever did for myself. If you're
           | reading this and you don't touch-type, learn. Now.
           | 
           | (They kicked me out eventually, so nothing good came of the
           | copying.)
        
           | monkeybutton wrote:
           | ICQ and MSN messenger did it for me.
        
             | effingwewt wrote:
             | Definitely messenger apps that did it for me. Back in the
             | AOL online CD days!
             | 
             | No one I knew could type, so I had to learn myself. By the
             | time it was taught in HS, my habits and muscle memory
             | weren't having it. I could type 'properly' but far slower,
             | so I gave up.
             | 
             | To this day I've never had a RSI from typing (and some of
             | the marathons were crazy!), and it's rampant among 'proper'
             | typers.
        
           | iszomer wrote:
           | Are you sure it wasn't all about the APM and macros? :)
           | 
           | I remember briefly learning to type from a Mavis Beacon book
           | but practicing on those clicker mechanical keyboards drove my
           | parents nuts!
        
       | interestica wrote:
       | I had no idea there was a potential "real person" there any more
       | than I thought Mario/Luigi were real. Maybe I'd never even seen
       | an image or box to make that connection? I remember that the
       | software was really useful early on -- and game modes even made
       | it a bit competitive.
       | 
       | For a left-field alternative for super young kids (3? 4?) just
       | being introduced to letters/keyboard try out Typatone
       | (https://typatone.com/). Get a wireless keyboard and throw it up
       | on a big screen. Something interesting happens when there's the
       | added layer of reactive sound tied to what they've typed. It's a
       | really good way of recognizing letters, and learning where to
       | find them on a keyboard. And then common words take on a specific
       | "song". There's probably something to this in an education space
       | for someone to build on.
        
         | ZeroGravitas wrote:
         | It has been claimed Mario is based on someone that worked for
         | (edit: rented property to) Nintendo. Not sure I belive that
         | though.
         | 
         | https://www.npr.org/2018/11/02/663372770/mario-segale-inspir...
        
           | LukeShu wrote:
           | I've never heard that the character was "based on" Mario
           | Segale, just named after him.
           | 
           | It is my dim recollection from reading _Game Over_ by David
           | Sheff many years ago that the incident when  "Segale was said
           | to have made an impression on his tenants when he allegedly
           | stormed into Nintendo's offices in Tukwila, Wash., demanding
           | they catch up on late rent" (as the NPR article writes)
           | happened when they already had the Donkey Kong cabinets in
           | their final form.
           | 
           | The article from Benj Edwards cited at the end of the NPR
           | article says
           | 
           | > Legend has it that NOA President Minoru Arakawa noticed
           | physical similarities between Donkey Kong's short, dark-
           | haired protagonist and the landlord. So the crew at NOA
           | nicknamed the character Mario, and it stuck.
           | 
           | And that seams eminently plausible to me; that someone said
           | to Shigeru Miyamoto (Mario's creator) "hey, they guys at the
           | American office have started calling the character 'Mario'
           | because he looks like our landlord who is named Mario" and
           | Miyamoto ran with it.
        
       | staticassertion wrote:
       | The best typing teacher was AIM and Runescape.
        
       | LukeShu wrote:
       | If anyone else is confused by some of the years in the article, I
       | have submitted the following to The Independent:
       | 
       | Subject: Inaccuracy in article on Mavis Beacon
       | 
       | The article at
       | https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/mavis-beac...
       | states that The Software Toolworks was "founded in 1990." I
       | believe this to be a mistake; it does not make sense in the
       | context of the article discussing things that they did in 1986
       | and 1987. Wikipedia tells me that The Software Toolworks was
       | founded in 1980.
        
       | JohnBooty wrote:
       | I told a coworker that I was dismayed to learn that Mavis Beacon
       | wasn't real. She had a good laugh at my expense.
       | 
       | her: "Really??? You thought she was a real person? JOHN. Come
       | on."
       | 
       | me: "I thought she was a real person, like Orville Redenbacher. I
       | didn't know she was made up like Betty Crocker."
       | 
       | her: "WAIT, BETTY CROCKER WASN'T REAL??"
       | 
       | oh, the laughs
        
         | interestica wrote:
         | There's probably a list somewhere. Aunt Jemima? Uncle Ben?
         | Colonel Sanders? Betty Crocker? The Quaker oats guy?
        
           | selimthegrim wrote:
           | Oh boy wait until you hear about the Cream of Wheat guy
        
           | namdnay wrote:
           | Mr Kipling
        
           | Jtsummers wrote:
           | A couple lists from Wikipedia:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Female_characters_in_.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Male_characters_in_ad.
           | ..
           | 
           | Unfortunately they mix the obviously fictional in with the
           | less obviously fictional (like cartoon characters with more
           | plausible characters).
        
             | ZeroGravitas wrote:
             | Wendy Thomas is real though.
        
               | Jtsummers wrote:
               | I didn't make the list, just found it. Fortunately, it's
               | Wikipedia so you can edit it if you want.
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | The name is real (and maybe the portrait is close enough)
               | but the character in commercials isn't.
        
               | TigeriusKirk wrote:
               | The one I was most surprised to learn was a real person
               | was Chef Boyardee.
        
               | slavik81 wrote:
               | From Wikipedia:
               | 
               | > After leaving his position as head chef at the Plaza
               | Hotel in New York City, Boiardi opened a restaurant
               | called Il Giardino d'Italia in 1924 at East 9th Street
               | and Woodland Avenue in Cleveland, Ohio. The idea for Chef
               | Boyardee came about when restaurant customers began
               | asking Boiardi for his spaghetti sauce, which he began to
               | distribute in milk bottles. Four years later, in 1928,
               | Boiardi opened a factory and moved production to Milton,
               | Pennsylvania, where he could grow his own tomatoes and
               | mushrooms. He decided to name his product "Boy-Ar-Dee" to
               | help Americans pronounce his name correctly. The first
               | product to be sold was a "ready-to-heat spaghetti kit" in
               | 1928. The kit included uncooked pasta, tomato sauce, and
               | a container of pre-grated cheese.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chef_Boyardee
        
               | asperous wrote:
               | It says female/male characters in advertising; not
               | necessarily fictional.
        
           | deutschew wrote:
           | damn i thought those were the founders
        
             | lmkg wrote:
             | Colonel Sanders was the real founder, although not a real
             | Colonel.
        
               | netr0ute wrote:
               | He was technically a real Colonel, just not a
               | conventional one.
        
               | shoo wrote:
               | a convolutional kernel, maybe
        
               | SaberTail wrote:
               | He was a Kentucky Colonel:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_Colonel
        
           | sbuttgereit wrote:
           | Colonel Harland David Sanders (September 9, 1890 - December
           | 16, 1980)
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Sanders
        
             | dehrmann wrote:
             | Dave Thomas of Wendy's was also a Kentucky Colonel.
        
           | rob74 wrote:
           | Peter Norton?
        
             | userbinator wrote:
             | He's real. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Norton
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | seanmcdirmid wrote:
             | And then there is John McAfee who passed recently in a
             | Spanish jail cell.
        
               | fuzzer37 wrote:
               | Was assassinated.
        
         | WalterBright wrote:
         | Back in the 1980s, when my company Zortech was located in
         | London, my partner set up a "Meet Walter Bright" with the tech
         | press there. After all, my picture was on the Zortech ads and
         | the compiler manual.
         | 
         | When I arrived at the meet & greet, the journalists thought I
         | was a model (!) hired to be a figurehead. I had to show them my
         | passport to convince them that was my real name, and answer a
         | bunch of tech questions to show I knew all about C++ and
         | compilers.
         | 
         | It was a very amusing experience for me, especially that some
         | people thought I was handsome enough to be a model, LOL.
        
           | bluefirebrand wrote:
           | I wonder how handsome you would have to be to play a model
           | playing yourself.
           | 
           | This is a great story. I'm wondering if any of them had
           | techie friends that set them up.
           | 
           | "I'm going to interview Walter Bright!"
           | 
           | "Oh yeah? You know that's not a real person, right?"
           | 
           | I think I would do that if I ever got the chance. "You think
           | the guy who created Linux is named Linus? Really? Well, okay
           | I guess"
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | mwattsun wrote:
           | When I first got internet in the 90's I became aware of an
           | art collective that was fronted by a personality name
           | "Netochka Nezvanova". I got the impression that this kind of
           | thing was nothing new. Maybe your last name "Bright" and
           | programming skills were such that they thought you had to be
           | more than one person!
           | 
           | https://anthology.rhizome.org/m9ndfukc-0-99
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | They thought "Walter Bright" was a made up marketing name,
             | like Mr. Goodwrench.
             | 
             | P.S. I still have the green shirt!
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | when I finish my next compiler I'm going to hire someone
               | on Fiverr to steal--I mean, alter slightly--the George
               | Brazil Plumbing guy (https://www.google.com/search?q=geor
               | ge+brazil+plumbing&tbm=i...), put him on the website, and
               | call him Walter Bright just to complete the circle
        
           | tomcam wrote:
           | What a great story. Also how nice is it that at one time
           | journalists could ask something smart enough to discern your
           | knowledge of C++
        
           | wdurden wrote:
           | Ima hafta call baloney on this one ... If WalterBright was
           | real he would'a wrote a language ... even better than C!
           | Maybe throw in some memory management. Just sayin'
           | 
           | Plus, "Zortech" ... wth kind of name is that? Someone
           | couldn't make this stuff up as fiction! And a journalist that
           | knew the right question to see if you knew about C plus plus
           | ... You almost had me til there.
        
         | hasmanean wrote:
         | I just assumed she was a software developer who decided to
         | teach typing. Then I realized, she doesn't have to code it
         | herself...maybe she hired someone to program it for her.
         | 
         | It never crossed my mind that she was not an entrepreneur until
         | I read this comment.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Aardwolf wrote:
       | Also featured in a Lazy Game Reviews video:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-6d6X4E-3w
        
       | serf wrote:
       | an aside, I miss old Broderbund software.
       | 
       | I'm no longer of 'in-education' age so my opinion may be way off
       | , but Broderbund seemed to fill an educational niche that is no
       | longer as explored as it was.
        
       | joshu wrote:
       | what ever happened to carmen sandiego?
        
         | savoytruffle wrote:
         | Get on it, gumshoes
        
         | aceazzameen wrote:
         | You mean where in the world is Carmen Sandiego? She's at
         | Netflix.
        
           | techsupporter wrote:
           | All these people want to know, "Where in the World is Carmen
           | Sandiego?"
           | 
           | That game show on PBS was my favorite and I was genuinely sad
           | when Lynne Thigpen died. That show got me into Jeopardy!, and
           | then into the trivia group I found on a local discussion
           | forum, and then through a friendship made there into the job
           | I've had for many years.
           | 
           | Hit it, Rockapella.
        
         | whitej125 wrote:
         | She was captured in Argentina attempting to steal Iguazu Falls
         | [0]. Fortunately a couple of super sleuths [1] were tipped off
         | about the soon-to-be caper by none other than Dr. Brain [2].
         | 
         | I miss the educational games of the 90s.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Sandiego_(video_game_se...
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Mountain! [2]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_of_Dr._Brain
        
       | na85 wrote:
       | We had a copy of Mavis Beacon but I never really used it. What
       | taught me typing:
       | 
       | 1. Flirting with the girl I later married over ICQ
       | 
       | 2. Getting rushed and begging for help in StarCraft 1
       | 
       | Both things require timely and efficient typed communication!
        
         | kevinventullo wrote:
         | I believe AIM did more to teach my entire graduating class how
         | to type than any educational software.
        
           | Dalrymple wrote:
           | My graduating class learned to type by producing thousands of
           | punch cards on the IBM 026 punch card machine.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | Trying to keep up with file servers and conversation on IRC
         | taught me to type fast!
         | 
         | Sink or swim scenarios work best for me.
        
           | na85 wrote:
           | Yes, the glory days of game rips (sorry, gamez and ripz) on
           | DALnet channels full of uber-leet color codes and DCC-based
           | fserv interfaces.
           | 
           | I miss the old internet.
        
         | joshspankit wrote:
         | You married over ICQ? If so, that's quite notable!
        
           | na85 wrote:
           | No no, I meant the messaging was conducted over ICQ.
        
       | good8675309 wrote:
       | On a somewhat related note, if you're teaching your kids typing
       | the current Mavis Beacon software has broken DRM purchased
       | straight from Amazon. I was told by their support to buy it again
       | directly from their website. I recommend the much superior
       | Typing.com
        
         | etataetaet wrote:
         | Typing.com and nitrotype are AMAZING tools to learn how to type
        
       | riffic wrote:
       | are people still just now coming to the conclusion this was a
       | fictional character? yikes.
        
       | softwarebeware wrote:
       | We also really need to find Carmen Sandiego!! :-p
        
         | theandrewbailey wrote:
         | Someone did: Janine LaManna
         | 
         | https://www.huffpost.com/entry/carmen-sandiego-found_n_578e6...
        
       | WhiteOwlEd wrote:
       | Mavis Beacon taught my how to type between 60-75 wpm. The dictate
       | feature of Microsoft Word within Office 365 gets me roughly to
       | 100 wpm after corrections.
       | 
       | Bottom line: Mavis Beacon helped me code faster, but Microsoft
       | helped me write blogs faster.
        
         | jker wrote:
         | This is always interesting to me: I find that I can't dictate
         | at all, I need to see the words and read them as I'm writing
         | them, for some reason. Especially for writing fiction, it's
         | just hard to imagine saying it out loud, I feel like that would
         | engage a different and "wrong" part of my brain.
        
           | WhiteOwlEd wrote:
           | When I am coding, I feel the need to "type it out."
           | 
           | If I am writing blogs or if I'm writing scripts, I find that
           | I can dictate much faster and then just edit the sentences
           | afterwards in order to clarify. The process of dictation plus
           | editing is faster for me than if I were to type out
           | everything.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Past appearances by Mavis:
       | 
       |  _Mavis Beacon_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28767251 -
       | Oct 2021 (4 comments)
       | 
       |  _What 's Mavis Beacon Up to These Days? (2015)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25530183 - Dec 2020 (58
       | comments)
        
       | ghaff wrote:
       | Unfortunately, I never learned to touch type though I'm pretty
       | fast so long as I'm not copying something. I don't think I ever
       | touched a typewriter until senior year in high school and touch
       | typing never seemed a sufficient priority to me to deliberately
       | learn it. (Shorthand would probably have been useful too at
       | various times.)
        
       | unfocussed_mike wrote:
       | Next, we track down Waldo and ask him how it feels that people
       | don't know he actually goes by Wally:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where's_Wally%3F
        
       | narrator wrote:
       | "The Spectacle is not a collection of images but a social
       | relation among people mediated by images." - Guy Debord
       | 
       | You could literally write a PhD thesis on this Mavis Beacon thing
       | by running it through the lense of Debord's "Society of the
       | Spectacle."
        
         | _3u10 wrote:
         | Through that lens she's more real than most. I loved his idea
         | that JFK eulogized his own funeral.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | Out of curiosity, have you ever publicly referred to the
         | Society of the Spectacle more than 3 months ago? For whatever
         | reason, I am seeing all sorts of references all over the
         | internet to Debord and SotS in the past couple months, and I'm
         | just trying to track down why this is happening. I don't think
         | this is a yellow car phenomenon because I've been into
         | Situationism for the past 20 years and am fairly attuned to
         | references to it that I stumble across.
        
           | narrator wrote:
           | I think the "Contain" podcast (https://podbay.fm/p/contain-
           | podcast) got me into it originally. It has a lot of guests
           | who reference stuff like "commodity fetishism" and I just
           | started looking that up to figure out what they were talking
           | about and this eventually led to Debord.
           | 
           | As an aside, The "Contain" podcast is great. Lots of
           | interviews with lots of unusual intellectual people.
        
           | 8b16380d wrote:
           | Debord has been a well known figure in far right circles for
           | a while now
        
       | dimitrios1 wrote:
       | I remember at some point in middle school in the early 90s we had
       | typing instruction in the form of some sort of car drag racing
       | video game. It was actually quite fun and motivated me to type
       | correctly! The faster and more accurately you typed, the faster
       | your car went. And you could use the money you won from winning
       | to upgrade you car, or purchase faster ones.
       | 
       | Does anyone remember this?
        
         | codingclaws wrote:
         | I still play:
         | 
         | https://play.typeracer.com
        
           | BenjiWiebe wrote:
           | That doesn't let you upgrade cars to faster ones though.
        
       | cubix wrote:
       | I guess now I know the story behind this flyer I saw in a Bay
       | Area shop window a little over a year ago:
       | https://files.catbox.moe/48giot.jpeg
        
       | harel wrote:
       | Real or not, I owe Mavis my touch typing ability. It's kinda like
       | the "are we in a simulation" argument - does it matter if we are,
       | if we can touch type like Mavis Beacon?
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%...
        
       | dheera wrote:
       | I'm in my 30s and I grew up at a time in grade school when
       | computers and internet access were just becoming more and more
       | popular, but typing wasn't specifically a necessity for school.
       | 
       | As such I'm EXTREMELY GLAD that I had the choice to learn how to
       | type on my own and made a conscious choice to learn Dvorak
       | instead of QWERTY.
       | 
       | I feel that kids these days are forced into QWERTY as part of
       | curriculum and I think that's a terrible forced propagation of a
       | shitty standard.
        
         | caymanjim wrote:
         | There's no good evidence that Dvorak is better for either speed
         | or RSI.
        
           | dheera wrote:
           | So what? There's no good evidence for QWERTY and it's based
           | on assumptions about mechanical typewriters that are no
           | longer true whereas Dvorak is at least based on something
           | that applies to modern life.
           | 
           | There's adecnotal evidence of both in favor of Dvorak which
           | is more than good enough for me.
           | 
           | Anyway, it was super easy to learn, I was lightyears ahead of
           | my classmates in touch typing, so I'm happy.
        
             | lazide wrote:
             | Well, if you do something that doesn't match what 90% (or
             | for Dvorak, more like 99.99%) of society does, especially
             | if it is in a way that is incompatible, you end up having
             | to do both ways or suffer significant friction in everyday
             | life if it is a common skill or requirement.
             | 
             | It does open some unique niches, but it's also easy to
             | oversell that advantages while ignoring the disadvantages.
             | 
             | Dvorak is even less useful than being a leftie (since
             | lefties still have the same hands in the same orientation),
             | it's more like if someone switched/mirrored the hands
             | themselves.
             | 
             | Which, if everyone had the same setup would be fine. But
             | since not everyone does, better get used to constantly
             | switching and adjusting things.
        
               | dheera wrote:
               | > suffer significant friction in everyday life
               | 
               | I don't.
               | 
               | > if it is a common skill or requirement
               | 
               | It almost never is, in my personal experience.
               | 
               | Dvorak is available as an option on all the major OSes on
               | a per-user basis. It's literally zero issue.
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | Glad to hear it works for you!
               | 
               | I travel frequently (well did not that long ago), and
               | regularly work on a equipment that others use daily.
               | 
               | I'd get nothing but hassles if I had to change keyboard
               | layouts, especially since there is so much variation in
               | keyboards I interact with sometimes that touch typing
               | gets high error rates at first.
               | 
               | And if I didn't switch someone's layout back before
               | leaving, the anger would be non-trivial.
               | 
               | Most folks I know at some point also need to use a
               | computer at work, or did at school (but aren't techies),
               | so not knowing QWERTY isn't going to go well for them. As
               | would trying to switch keyboard layouts every time they
               | go somewhere or do something. Most folks have zero time
               | for that kind of thing.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | I've used QWERTY, Dvorak, Colemak, and CarpalX (and even
         | Workman for a short while) and have been using CarpalX as
         | primary for nearly the last decade. I'd say it doesn't really
         | matter at all which you learn first as by far the vast majority
         | of what you learn is the motor skills which transfer to using
         | any layout. Learning a particular layout after you've already
         | learned how to type takes a miniscule amount of time in
         | comparison (on the order of 1-2 weeks of use to reach full
         | proficiency as the original layout regardless of the level of
         | proficiency that was) while knowing QWERTY remains a handy
         | fallback given it's never just going to disappear overnight.
        
       | awinter-py wrote:
       | yes carmen sandiego had a similar thing happen
       | 
       | ppl are still looking
        
       | gcheong wrote:
       | I was never under the impression that she was a real person. I
       | just assumed she was a marketing persona ala Betty Crocker et al.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | Fta: you're correct
        
         | smegsicle wrote:
        
           | Tagbert wrote:
           | You would be missing the amazing Mavis Staples
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuCF7BtGrEI
        
           | RobertMiller wrote:
           | It was a somewhat popular name for girls in the 30s and 40s.
           | Mavis Beacon came out in the late 80s, one of the programmers
           | might well have had a mother or aunt named Mavis.
        
             | vmception wrote:
             | (or just heard the name as not uncommon so it fit when they
             | pulled it out of their mental random name generator)
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | Probably also somewhere between 'so common it can't be
               | trademarked' and 'so uncommon it sounds bizarre and not
               | like it could be a real person'.
        
             | boomboomsubban wrote:
             | >one of the programmers might well have had a mother or
             | aunt named Mavis.
             | 
             | Or a typing teacher.
        
               | mmcgaha wrote:
               | Or a dead milkmen album: "somebody kicked my dog Mavis
               | and I'm gonna find out just who the hell it was"
        
         | ralusek wrote:
         | You're telling me that she's American McGee rather than Carmen
         | San Diego? Sid Meier rather than Dr. Grordbort?
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | *Sandiego.
           | 
           | And vice versa.
        
       | dudeinjapan wrote:
       | Francis Bacon teaches metallic transmutation
        
         | selimthegrim wrote:
         | Outside the OJ trial on a sign - "Save the Juice! Bacon Did It"
         | (playing on the Shakespeare conspiracy theory)
        
       | vxNsr wrote:
       | I don't know anyone who thought mavis beacon was real, this feels
       | like hype for the documentary and nothing else.
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | Indeed. It is just hype and that's it.
         | 
         | The people who are investigating over this are trying to turn a
         | non-issue into an industry problem.
         | 
         | With them, everything is always a problem with no solutions and
         | all it is about is just complaining. Especially about a
         | character that doesn't even exist. Somehow it is a problem.
         | 
         | But don't worry. Maybe one day, the Mavis Beacon actor might
         | consider releasing an NFT collection for all her fans.
         | 
         | Someday.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | Is this really a topic you've interrogated your friends about?
         | Why would you know anyone's perspective on Mavis Beacon?
         | 
         | I thought Mavis Beacon was real back in the day, because why
         | wouldn't she be? It was just a nice looking lady, not like a
         | cartoon character who teaches you typing or anything like that.
         | I assumed maybe she was just a world class typer when I was 10
         | or so.
         | 
         | If it is obvious that Mavis Beacon isn't real to some, I would
         | love to know how they understand that Mavis is fake, but, say,
         | the guy on the "Norton Utilities", "Norton Antivirus" is a real
         | person.
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | There are three things that kids back then should now know that
       | don't exist: The Tooth-fairy, Santa Claus and Mavis Beacon.
        
         | compiler-guy wrote:
         | Carmen San Diego also.
        
         | RobertMiller wrote:
         | Countless hours of Number Munchers taught me mental arithmetic.
        
       | zamadatix wrote:
       | That site of people trying to find her has some great 90s
       | internet vibes https://seekingmavisbeacon.com/. No blinking
       | sadly.
        
         | owlninja wrote:
         | The 'Future Thot Leader's site is interesting as well
         | 
         | https://www.jazminjones.com/
        
           | cols wrote:
           | Wow this was really cool! A little slowish but very creative
           | and different from the standard website experience. Highly
           | enjoyed poking around.
        
       | unsupp0rted wrote:
       | > Incarnating Mavis was a Haitian-born woman called Renee
       | L'Esperance, spotted behind a cosmetics counter at Saks Fifth
       | Avenue by one of the men behind the company that sold Mavis
       | Beacon Teaches Typing.
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-13 23:00 UTC)