[HN Gopher] Lawn mowing frequency affects bee abundance and dive...
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Lawn mowing frequency affects bee abundance and diversity (2018)
Author : gkfasdfasdf
Score : 190 points
Date : 2022-03-13 16:20 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sciencedirect.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sciencedirect.com)
| giantg2 wrote:
| "Mowing less frequently [than 3 weeks] is practical,"
|
| Not in all areas. Some grasses grow much more quickly, especially
| in warmer areas. Many areas require a lower mow to inhibit
| mosquito reproduction. Every 2 weeks tends to work well for my
| lawn.
| ozarkerD wrote:
| I'm curious if this is due more to climate or species of grass
| in an area.
| worik wrote:
| I need to mow my lawn every two weeks in summer (each week
| would be good too)
|
| I do not mow in in the winter months, at all.
|
| Seasonal.
| worik wrote:
| Mosquitos?
|
| They require stagnant water. Do people in power worry that
| rubbish in the lawn will harbour water?
|
| (I do not have mosquitos where I live)
| thegginthesky wrote:
| Depends on the location. Southern states in the US and many
| countries in Latin America have strict rules against rubble
| that accumulates still water, and you can even get fined if
| you have a pool and don't keep it clean and treated.
|
| West Nile virus and Dengue virus are serious health hazards
| transmitted by mosquitoes, and many places try to contain it.
| honksillet wrote:
| In mosquito environments limiting lawn height definitely
| helps.
| worik wrote:
| I do not doubt you. But I would like to know why?
| rdedev wrote:
| Purely anecdotal but i used to live in a mosquito heavy
| country. What I've noticed is male mosquitoes tend to
| hand around densly packed tall plants. Especially under
| the leaves. Not sure if tall grass also have the same
| effect
| giantg2 wrote:
| The tall grass gives them a place to hide. In theory they
| can even use small amounts of water under the tall grass
| to reproduce (the tall grass prevents evaporation that
| would happen with shorter grass).
| yeahwhatever10 wrote:
| Now here's a sacrifice I'm willing to make!
| amelius wrote:
| Funny thing is, staying in bed every other day would also help
| the bees, if everybody did it.
| popol12 wrote:
| Lawn mowing is among the top most useless energy wasting human
| activities. It's noisy (of course nobody syncs with neighbours to
| mow so you can be sure to hear mowing noise every day),
| polluting, and so fucking useless.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| It looks really nice, which is the point.
| devmunchies wrote:
| then people take it too far and get turf lawns which look
| terrible IMO. its the uncanny too-much-plastic-surgery of
| lawns.
| ironmagma wrote:
| Not noisy or polluting if you use an electric mower. Useless,
| kind of, although I appreciate not having a literal million
| insects floating into my house when I open the door (I live in
| FL) so it keeps those populations in check. Most of the macro
| bugs know the mower is coming and hop out of the way.
| smileysteve wrote:
| > it keeps those populations in check
|
| This is an interesting word choice to use as pollinators
| approach endangerment.
|
| Akin to suggesting that deer hunting season should be
| extended until there are no longer any deer near roadways in
| FL.
| ironmagma wrote:
| From what I have heard from science communicators, the bee
| problem is mostly of commercial bee populations. My
| backyard definitely has enough.
| pid-1 wrote:
| A friend of mine started raising chickens for eggs last year.
| One of the unexpected upsides is that they will prevent grass
| from growing too much.
|
| Not for everyone, but sure an interesting solution.
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| Electric mowers are much less noisy. But lawn services don't
| use them and in my area - central NJ burbs - I would estimate
| 50% or more hire a lawn service.
| rascul wrote:
| It's not pointless. It's nice for myself and my dog to be able
| to use my yard without catching ticks. Seeing where I step when
| I walk is a nice perk. Also I like to minimize the places that
| rodents and other animals can live around my house, to minimize
| on the damage they cause to my house. My mower was down for the
| better part of the year last year and it was not pleasant for
| me or my dog.
| hanniabu wrote:
| Plants clover instead of grass and you can still use your
| yard perfectly fine
| rascul wrote:
| Some of my yard already is clover. It still needs mowing
| from time to time. I have no interest in spending the time
| and money to replace grass with clover.
|
| Edit: I'm not particularly attached to grass. If clover
| took over and pushed the grass out, I wouldn't be upset
| about it.
|
| Another edit: A clover lawn also might not be durable
| enough for the usage much my yard gets.
| popol12 wrote:
| https://www.whygoodnature.com/microclover Great finding,
| thanks
| madiator wrote:
| And a waste of time and water and of opportunity cost.
| parenthesis wrote:
| I understand lawn mowing, what I don't understand is people
| mowing tiny bits of grass with powered mowers.
|
| I use a push mower, about once a week (and I leave the
| clippings on the lawn). It's really enjoyable.
| cableshaft wrote:
| As someone who tends to be a super inconsistent lawnmower and
| often goes 3+ weeks in between mowing, I'm not sure I totally
| agree.
|
| Leaving the lawn to grow out for more than three weeks makes it
| pretty unusable, especially for our dogs, with giant weeds
| (with spikes that hurt the dogs' legs) and thistle bushes and
| whatnot, and when you do mow it takes 2-3 times as long and the
| mower tends to get clogged up a bunch, and you need to extra
| careful about not hitting a rabbit or other nest, which might
| have been built in your yard because the weeds got so deep.
|
| When I do mow I do try to leave some patches of clover for
| bees, though, and let some thistle plants grow in a few clumps.
|
| I do wish people wouldn't obsessively mow and poison their
| lawns with weed killer to keep their lawns only consisting of
| grass, though. Nothing wrong with dandelions and clover and the
| occasional thistle.
|
| As for polluting, I use a plug-in electric mower, so it doesn't
| really pollute much. I do wish electric mowers were the norm.
| BolexNOLA wrote:
| Plant local flora/grasses that don't need constant
| management. The manicured lawns we generally do are full of
| non-native plants and require more care.
| ghaff wrote:
| And where I live in New England, it will grow to very tall
| grass, brush, and eventually trees which you really don't
| want right up to the house because it's a potential fire
| hazard and you can't easily even walk around the house
| through it after a while. I don't have _most_ of my property
| mowed (just basically a band around the house) and I don 't
| apply weed killer/water to it. I do have someone knock the
| field down with a tractor brush hog once a year so it doesn't
| transition to forest which it would on its own.
| emj wrote:
| I maintain a forrest around the house with just enough
| shade to make the undervegation grow with berries and such.
| Once per year I just walk around, remove small saplings, do
| some chainsawing of larger things and take down one tree.
| That's all. The tree is a quite a lot of work when you do
| not know how to handle it but it gets easier every year in
| the beginning.
|
| This is not considered a fire hazard here, but yeah we do
| not have that many trees close to the house.
| chlorion wrote:
| In some areas you have no choice, otherwise your entire house
| will be swallowed by tall weeds and other stuff. It also can
| create safety issues with snakes and other creatures coming
| close to the house. I can't imagine living in a house totally
| surrounded by 4 foot high grass!
| samstave wrote:
| CHECK THIS OUT!
|
| This is happening in my front yard literally as I type this!
|
| The colony in my tree is electing a new Queen. Last week half the
| colony left with the old queen - and a bee-keeper noticed they
| were all bunched up in the yard and brought a hive and harvested
| them off the lawn. (Ill ad pics of that later)
|
| I havent needed to mow the lawn in months, and this literally
| just happened in the last 30 mins as I returned to costco...
|
| Listen with audio they are swarming like mad!
|
| https://imgur.com/gallery/2nnZBy4
|
| ---
|
| What was crazy is I read this article this AM before heading to
| errands, and then I came home to this!
|
| And I was recognizing the hive was there, and I was recognizing I
| havent mowed in months! and I planted a crap-ton of bee friendly
| stuff in the yard last summer...
|
| https://i.imgur.com/Io1LASO.jpeg
|
| https://imgur.com/gallery/ltjjtMd
| AnotherGoodName wrote:
| One thing i personally noticed and wanted to ask someone who
| might know (perhaps they are reading this)
|
| Does the abundance of color in the modern world harm bees in any
| way? I ask this because I've seen bees repeatedly fly into modern
| packaging, signage and bright clothing. I can imagine that the
| wasted energy flying into a sign that is as colorful as a flower
| harms bees.
|
| But I'm not sure if there's studies on this or if it is even a
| big deal. So opportunistically asking here in this semi related
| thread to see if others have thought about this.
| lazide wrote:
| It also increases angry letters from the HOA by 200%
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| I've tried to imagine buying a house with an attached HOA. I
| already have three layers of government, what does adding a
| fourth layer get me beside more busybodies telling me what
| (not) to do?
| rcpt wrote:
| Seems like existence of an HOA should decrease property
| values.
| karaterobot wrote:
| Nothing, but you can't get everything you want. It's fair to
| say the number of people who like HOAs is much lower than the
| number of people who are part of them. Having an HOA is a
| tradeoff many people are willing to make to get a home with
| other, more preferable qualities on a limited budget.
| lazide wrote:
| Personally I agree. Some areas it's essentially impossible to
| get a home without an HOA however.
|
| Also, some folks like having a small army of busy bodies go
| after folks doing things that they don't like.
| agilob wrote:
| When these topics are mentioned I remember once how police
| wanted to give my parents' neighbour a ticket for trash on her
| property, it was fly tipping. Turned out my parents personally
| knew the police officer and after being asked "so if I break a
| glass bottle in your garden, you will give yourself a ticket?".
| The guy let them go without a ticket... so when this US HOA
| thing is mentioned in extreme scenarios like someone isn't
| allowed to grow carrots, they have to have grass or be fined,
| what is stopping people from passing by a HOA president and
| throwing random clover or dandelion seeds at their properties
| at night, or simply if you live around, feeding birds seeds?
| Would it be possible to seed-pollute their lands to the extreme
| until they give up on what you grow on your soil?
|
| Kind of a thing like this https://www.treehugger.com/tree-
| arborist-redondo-beach-mayor...
| lazide wrote:
| A LOT of the HOA president types are retired and stay at home
| a lot, and watch things like a hawk.
|
| I would expect a decent number of them to consider throwing
| 'invasive' seeds onto their lawns some kind of terrorist act.
| And almost all of them would comb over every legal resource
| they could find to try to nail you with something over it.
|
| This is definitely a case where you'd be better off just
| avoiding it entirely.
| agilob wrote:
| >A LOT of the HOA president types are retired and stay at
| home a lot, and watch things like a hawk.
|
| Well, I'm just passing by, and whoops I need to tie
| shoelances, and here I drop some super tiny seeds for the
| bugs, birds and wind to do the rest. Planting them is super
| easy.
| lazide wrote:
| I had a friend once who got followed around constantly by
| someone on the HOA because they suspected they _were the
| ones putting unsorted recycling in the recycling bins_.
| They even installed security cameras watching the
| recycling bins and all other common areas as part of
| their hunt for the offender.
|
| I wish you luck.
| bluedays wrote:
| They gotta sleep some time.
| lazide wrote:
| Cheap high resolution surveillance cameras means they
| essentially don't anymore. :s even the old fogies have
| jumped on that train.
| RobertMiller wrote:
| Any time after 9pm, those sorts will be fast asleep.
| driverdan wrote:
| Another reason for never buying a house with an HOA.
| crossingTime wrote:
| "I can't mow this week wife, think of the bees." Thanks science.
| nemo44x wrote:
| Bad approach to life. My advice is to either learn to love
| things that have to be done (and frequently like mowing) or pay
| someone to do it. Life's too short.
|
| Lawn is really fascinating when you get into it.
| vidarh wrote:
| Or affect change to not need it. My advice is to not have a
| lawn, and instead culture semi-wild patches of flowers by
| only weeding what is unattractive. No mowing for me, and no
| high maintenance manicured flower beds, and lots of bees.
| worik wrote:
| I agree, but also have a lawn.
|
| I have a lot of space around the edges that have trees
| (fruit trees, nut trees and decorative native trees as) I
| pull out the plants I want to discourage (hemlock, stinging
| nettle, dock by the roots...) and other plants like ferns,
| flaxes, butter cups fill in the spaces.
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| Yep. Bought a house last summer, in process of getting rid
| of the lawn. Less noise, less work, less chemicals.
|
| I mean what would I do with it? Play croquet?
| RobertMiller wrote:
| Many people are required to have and mow lawns by their HOA
| or local government. For those people, the choice is mow,
| move, or eat some fines.
|
| Mowing may also be necessary if you live somewhere with a
| rodent problem, or particularly if you live somewhere with
| a rodent _and snake_ problem. You don 't want rats nesting
| right up against your house, nor vipers (attracted to the
| rats) nipping at your heels every time you go outside to
| check your mailbox.
|
| Of course there are outside-the-box solutions like
| surrounding your house with gravel.
| oblak wrote:
| OK, but can't you learn to love bees, too? I am not even half
| joking.
|
| The fascination with lawns, and everything that comes with
| it, is something I could never get. Flowers might not be
| manly enough but why not grow trees and/or produce? Not
| talking commercial efforts. Just a hobby. One that doesn't
| involve horrible motorized mowers, water waster, and what
| have you.
| nemo44x wrote:
| Growing produce is super hard. It also requires more water
| than a lawn for similar area. But you can also do both. We
| have a pretty big vegetable patch too.
|
| But I love a lawn. They're beautiful and it's a fun hobby.
| They also make a great ecosystem for lots of bugs and worms
| which love organically fertilized earth. Lawns are also a
| carbon sink depending on how you maintain it. Not to
| mention they're great for erosion issues. Not to mention
| the kids love playing on it.
|
| As for water I live in an area where you can't really
| "waste" water. Mowers can be electric as well.
| worik wrote:
| Bees love a good lawn (as in not a monoculture but a mosaic
| of flowering "weeds")
|
| Also having a space around your house means it can be more
| easily defended from file
|
| Gardens with flowers and vegetables have the same benefits,
| but are more work and make the ground unusable for the dogs
| and their children
| nemo44x wrote:
| Also erosion control. Lawns are great for controlling
| that.
| davidmurdoch wrote:
| Not when your kid is deathly allergic.
| oblak wrote:
| Allergic to what?
| davidmurdoch wrote:
| Bees
| CalRobert wrote:
| I let my 3 acres go fallow for the last few years (half an acre I
| mow so my kids can play and not come out covered in ticks).
|
| I wondered if it was helping a lot until I took a few walks in
| the grass and nesting birds were startled by my presence (I let
| them be after I knew where they were!). I don't think they'd had
| the chance to nest there when it was being cut for silage.
| nemo44x wrote:
| My lawn would be so long if I mowed every other week. It would
| also be extremely bad for my lawn (fescue with KBG and rye).
|
| I mow about twice a week and keep my lawn at 3" - 4". I like it a
| bit longer.
|
| If I let it grow for 2 weeks I'd be chopping off 50% or more of
| its length which puts the lawn under so much stress. It would be
| wide open for disease and it would actually be wasting water.
| joshu wrote:
| this attitude, generally, is why we're never going to solve
| climate change
| nemo44x wrote:
| My lawn has no to very little effect on that. If anything
| it's probably a carbon sink. Mower is electric and I use
| organics.
| joshu wrote:
| and you have no ability to project this out to a larger
| number of people?
|
| mowing twice a week on what is almost certainly a two-cycle
| engine is very, very unlikely to be a carbon sink.
| nemo44x wrote:
| My mower is electric.
|
| It's hard to find 2-stroke gas engines today. Even cheap
| gas mowers use 4 stroke.
| jsnodlin wrote:
| teawrecks wrote:
| "It seems they created lawns of unsustainable crops that
| allegedly had aesthetic appeal, and then proceeded to
| maintain these crops until they ran out resources and all
| went extinct." -some alien archeologist in 1000 years
| laurent92 wrote:
| *for ritual purposes, as they always qualify in
| archeological articles.
| bluedays wrote:
| Sounds like something out of a Douglas Adams novel.
| joshu wrote:
| less that specifically and more the general attitude
| serverlessmom wrote:
| I have always wanted to allow more lawn growth to create room for
| insect and animals to thrive, and to replace the invasive grasses
| that are so common in my state with local clover and creeping
| thyme ground cover but I have been surprised at the level of
| resistance this has been met with by landlords and nosy
| neighbors. Keeping a "neat and tidy" yard is one of those weird
| cultural values in the US that was born from misguided beliefs
| about patriotism and is rooted in classist ideas.
|
| Even the idea of dandelions being "weeds" is ridiculous as the
| dandelion is an incredibly useful plant that can be used in a
| variety of circumstances. I really suggest that anyone interested
| in these topics check out a book called Lawn People How Grasses,
| Weeds, and Chemicals Make Us Who We Are.
|
| https://tupress.temple.edu/book/0141
| pfdietz wrote:
| Creeping thyme is not native to North America.
| kingkawn wrote:
| Not mowing at all works even better
| thenerdhead wrote:
| https://www.fs.fed.us/nrs/pubs/jrnl/2018/nrs_2018_Lerman_001...
| may suggest that is not the case.
|
| > Bee abundance differed among mowing treatments (p = 0.002),
| such that lawns mowed every two weeks had significantly more
| bees compared with the weekly and every three-week treatment
| (Fig. 4c, Tables 1, 2).
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| Lawn services work on a schedule. I'm not so sure that's as true
| as home owners who mow their own.
|
| I (DIY home owner) don't schedule, I mow on demand. That said, if
| the lawn gets too long our electric mower struggles.
|
| Finally, wouldn't longer grass also be a better environment for
| ticks? Don't get me wrong, bees are important. But grass length
| has been a constant, and while this information is helpful it's
| not doing much to address root cause (without that its influence
| could get worse).
| jupp0r wrote:
| It would also cut the number of interrupted Zoom meetings due to
| noise pollution in half.
| sdenton4 wrote:
| The denoising in Google Meet is fantastic, btw.
| westurner wrote:
| Another reason for textual chat meetings with URLs, #hashTags,
| @atTags, an agenda at the top, headings, and a prepared,
| accessible transcript!
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| I'm not sure why this comment is grey. I know this wouldn't
| necessarily work for everyone, but hey voice/video meetings
| don't work well for some of us either. Folks, do what works
| for you and your team. Not everyone has to do the same thing.
| dot_michael wrote:
| I need to show this article to HOA.
| carlgreene wrote:
| Also increases the mosquito population :/
| holri wrote:
| Last year I mowed only 2 or 3 times in the whole year because my
| automower died and I wanted to try what happens. The increase in
| insects and birds was incredible. I therefore do not repair or
| replace the mower. Instead I only regularly mow paths through the
| garden so I can walk through it and a "central place" where I
| really need and use low grass. Only 2 or 3 times a year I mow all
| of the garden with the scythe.
| lowdose wrote:
| There is not enough competition in automower market. I have
| still yet to meet an owner completely without complaints.
| binarymax wrote:
| I noticed the last couple seasons that certain parts of the lawn
| by the curb were really active with pollinating bees. I stopped
| mowing that area, much to the chagrin of the city who warned me
| (there's a blue law it must be shorter than 10 inches).
|
| So now, I don't mow that part until they warn me, then I'll trim
| it with a weed trimmer but leave some clusters here and there.
| chockchocschoir wrote:
| I don't live in the US nor speak English natively, but are you
| referring to neighbors around you as "the city"? And what does
| "blue law" mean in this context, as it seems to mean "Blue
| laws, also known as Sunday laws, Sunday trade laws and Sunday
| closing laws, are laws restricting or banning certain
| activities on specified days, usually Sundays in the western
| world." but that doesn't fit the context.
|
| It can't actually be illegal for you to not cut your grass at
| your property right?
| binarymax wrote:
| Hard to believe, but it is real:
| https://www.cityofrochester.gov/article.aspx?id=8589936029
|
| I've lived in this house for 5 years now, and the first time
| it happened I couldn't believe it myself.
|
| You are right in that I incorrectly referred to it as a "blue
| law". But it is an ordinance.
| wrycoder wrote:
| Think of it as a "bluenose" law, intended to protect their
| right-thinking sensibilities.
| driverdan wrote:
| If you live in the city they will eventually come and mow
| it for you. The fines and fees will be added to your taxes.
| I had it happen to me when I owned a house in Rochester.
| masklinn wrote:
| > You are right in that I incorrectly referred to it as a
| "blue law". But it is an ordinance.
|
| Mayhaps the mis-reference was due to most cool-season lawns
| being buegrasses?
| [deleted]
| jeromegv wrote:
| Many cities in canada and US have laws that force you to cut
| your lawn. It is pure insanity but America has a weird
| fixation with lawn.
|
| Good article / podcast on it
|
| https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/lawn-order/
| masklinn wrote:
| > It is pure insanity but America has a weird fixation with
| lawn.
|
| It's classism. The entire point of requiring large setbacks
| with front lawns is to discriminate for homeowners who can
| afford to maintain a large completely useless surface.
| kache_ wrote:
| Or maybe, not everything is about power, and nicely
| tended to lawns look nice enough to the majority of the
| neighborhood families, such that they want that
| enforcement
| sha256sum wrote:
| Enforcement of private property through majority rule
| sure sounds like power to me
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Sounds like democracy. Neighborhoods with enforcement
| voted for it.
|
| If you've ever lived somewhere with 'that one guy' who
| completely flouts the norms in all regards, it's easy to
| see how people decide to enact regulations. I lived in
| such a place, and the whole neighborhood had to live with
| his stinky, half-burned shade-tree mechanic operation
| with junked cars and chemicals everywhere for _years_
| before he could be forced out. He didn 't even live
| there, he had a house somewhere else. What finally pushed
| the city into acting was when we were able to document
| rats.
|
| After serious cleaning (including hauling away truckloads
| of contaminated dirt) there's a nice little house on the
| old lot that matches the rest of the neighborhood, and we
| can forget what a jackass Verl was.
| worik wrote:
| Perhaps. I cannot argue, I live elsewhere.
|
| But I have a lawn that takes me an hour of hard work to
| mow. It is not visible to the public. I adore it. The
| dogs adore it. The children are too little to appreciate
| the effort, but they like it too.
|
| There are other reasons to have lawns.
|
| Also maintains an area around the house that does not
| burn
| notatoad wrote:
| i don't think anybody is arguing that well-maintained
| lawns are nice. they're great, but they're undisputably a
| luxury.
|
| the only reason for a law _requiring other people_ to
| have a manicured lawn is to ensure that a neighbourhood
| is only populated by the class of people who both value
| and can afford that luxury.
| Kluny wrote:
| They might have mispelled "bylaw" which is a municipal
| ordinance with legally binding power, but only on a local
| level.
| rand_5738 wrote:
| It's actually illegal in some areas. Tall grass is considered
| by some to be a public health issue, as it's more likely to
| be home to rodents and snakes.
| lazide wrote:
| Also certain kinds of nasty insects like ticks, chiggers,
| no-see 'ums, etc.
| social_quotient wrote:
| Yes not only the city but if you have an HOA in your
| neighborhood you will/could get in trouble.
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeowner_association
|
| Another fun read of you are not familiar
|
| https://www.yellowstonelandscape.com/blog/most-common-hoa-
| la...
| yial wrote:
| I don't know where OP lives, but inside of the town where I
| live (the Borough) there is an ordinance about grass height.
| You get 1 warning per season, with 7 days to rectify it.
| After that any violations become a $50 per day fine. (With no
| additional warnings)
| softwaredoug wrote:
| I think generally I want to keep much of my lawn unmowed. But
| the large number of ticks and kids / pets that wander through,
| make me somewhat hesitant. I think I'll compromise on leaving
| an area unmowed and if anyone complains I will put a border
| around it and call it a "pollinator garden"
| worik wrote:
| Less regular mowing will encourage the flowers.
|
| In my experience (I am at 45deg45'S 170deg34'E in the South
| Pacific/Southern Ocean area) the lawn flowers do not mind
| being mowed. It seems to encourage them if you mow like I do
| (a bit irregularly, when it looks too long) they seem to
| thrive.
|
| I am really pleased to see this article. (I have only read
| the abstract) It matches my experience.
| cinntaile wrote:
| I don't understand why a lot of people have a lawn in the first
| place, most don't even use the lawn (besides mowing it on a
| regular basis hahaha)!
| vidarh wrote:
| My local London borough was short on cash last year, and while
| that was a shame, the fact that one of the things they cut down
| on was mowing the parks was _fantastic_. While I get some
| people want short grass in parks for e.g. ball games, I wish
| they 'd keep leaving larger parts of the parks mowed less often
| - the parks had far more flowers and far more bees etc. than
| usual.
| masklinn wrote:
| TBF one of the issues with long grass is they also favour
| ticks: ticks need a relatively wet environment, short grass
| prevent moisture retention which is an issue for all sorts of
| good critters... but also for ticks.
| goda90 wrote:
| The problem with trying to reduce ticks and mosquitoes in
| unnatural ways is that we often harm the things that eat
| them too. Since ticks and mosquitoes feed on us and other
| larger animals, they're the first to rebound their
| population, while their predators take longer to come back
| to keep their numbers down.
| zdragnar wrote:
| I live surrounded by hundreds of acres of forest.
| Wildlife is abundant, but there is absolutely no keeping
| up with the mosquito and tick population. Using deet and
| grooming ourselves and our dogs after they come inside
| _every single time_ is just a fact of life.
| goda90 wrote:
| It's a slow moving solution, but abundant bat boxes do
| wonders for mosquito control. Of course you'll never get
| rid of them entirely, but the population can be kept
| really low. Also promoting dragonflies helps a ton.
|
| For ticks, wolves are actually really important. They
| keep deer and coyote populations in check. Deer of course
| feed ticks, but what's really interesting is that coyotes
| have a two fold effect on ticks. First they eat some of
| the tick predators like opossums. And second they eat
| mouse predators like foxes, with mice being a major part
| in tick reproduction. Wolves don't usually eat these
| smaller animals. So wolves help keep a balance.
| toast0 wrote:
| > Also promoting dragonflies helps a ton.
|
| What are good ways to do that? Everything I saw that's
| good for dragonflies is good for mosquitos, but I'm not
| going to promote mosquitos. (Sure they've got a place in
| the world, but I wish it wasn't so close to my house)
| vidarh wrote:
| I'm in London. _Everywhere_ is a relatively wet environment
| almost all the time.
|
| And my local borough at least have plenty of high moisture
| wooded areas whether or not the grass is cut short, so
| allowing more of the open grassland to grow out would not
| make a material change.
|
| Ticks are uncommon here (EDIT: Here being _in my borough_ ;
| there are definitely parts of England where it's more of a
| concern - and if I had a dog or if I was wandering around
| more in the woods, I'd still check for ticks, just in case)
| - some have been found in adjacent boroughs e.g. in
| Richmond Park, but that's thought to be due to to a high
| population of deer, but even there the proportion of
| infected ticks is tiny.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| My homeowners association requires it even if I didn't want it.
| ironmagma wrote:
| Often times it is required by law or HOA. For example the FL
| fire code has a mandate that buildings be set back from the
| road a certain (insane) distance, ostensibly for fire safety
| reasons, and then people don't really want to see huge dirt
| fields everywhere, so the HOAs require lawns.
| mdoms wrote:
| "Huge dirt field" is not the only alternative to lawn. I
| would NEVER live somewhere where some busy-body group of
| Karens can tell me what I can, can't or must plant on my own
| property.
| closeparen wrote:
| A lot of people would never live somewhere lacking
| greenery.
| cinntaile wrote:
| Nobody in this thread is saying that though, so it's
| unclear who or what you are arguing against?
| mdoms wrote:
| Are you implying that not having a lawn means not having
| greenery? I would argue the opposite is true. While a
| monoculture lawn may be "green" it's about as barren a
| green space as you can imagine.
| closeparen wrote:
| Are you construing a requirement to have a lawn as
| prohibiting more intensive gardening? I have never heard
| of that.
|
| What I do see all the time is the front setback given
| over 100% to driveway and parking. These neighborhoods
| become very drab, even though if you look on satellite
| view there's plenty of plant life - it's just all locked
| away in private backyards.
|
| My personal preference is neither. Pull the buildings
| right up to the sidewalk. Present an interesting pleasant
| facade to pedestrians. But to the extent you are going to
| have setbacks, they should at least have some redeeming
| aesthetic value.
| mdoms wrote:
| Yes, a lawn precludes an alternative usage of that space.
| That's just physics.
| rascul wrote:
| I'm not most people, but I live on an acre and between myself
| and my dog, we use almost all of it. Probably half of it has
| grass, though.
|
| Also, in many locations, the grass is already there when the
| house is built, but maybe needs some help coming back around
| the construction areas, so it's not like they're putting a lawn
| in that wasn't already there. It's just that perhaps now it's a
| lawn instead of a field because the house is there.
| hanniabu wrote:
| What would you have instead? Seeing greenery is good for mental
| health.
| cinntaile wrote:
| There are a lot of green alternatives that don't require the
| weekly maintenance and are better from a flora/fauna point of
| view than grass monoculture.
| worik wrote:
| My lawn (that I love) is not a mono culture.
|
| The parts I planted are dominated by the grass I planted
| (fescu? sp?) but the invasive flowering weeds are
| encroaching and I am happy to see them.
|
| Biggest influence is foot fall. High traffic areas are very
| different from low traffic areas.
|
| I imagine my lawnmower is like a herbivore eating the tops.
|
| I have experimented with letting it grow. Gets dominated by
| dock and long grasses generally
| rdedev wrote:
| For me it's the diversity of plants that count. A porch with
| just plain grass is too boring after sometime.
| wrycoder wrote:
| I've heard of a guy who paved his front lawn with green
| concrete and mounted a lawn mower on a pedestal in the
| middle.
|
| I've heard of HOAs going after people for planting vegetables
| in their front yard.
|
| But, there is seriscaping, which is popular in dry areas.
| analog31 wrote:
| In my neighborhood, there are quite a few wooded lots, where
| they just let the trees grow with varying levels of
| deliberate gardening under the trees. It's quite pleasant.
|
| My neighbors have something like that in their back yard, and
| prairie grass in the front. My house has a big vegetable
| garden, some flower gardens, some bushes, and trees. We also
| have some lawn, but it's un-maintained and only needs to be
| mowed a couple times during the spring before it goes
| dormant. It's also about 1/2 weeds. Every year we convert
| more of it to garden.
|
| Only about 1/5 of the houses have actual managed green lawns.
|
| Contrast with my parents' neighborhood in another state.
| Every lawn in the entire 'hood is bushy bright green, and the
| people are out there mowing all the time. Many of their
| neighbors mow twice a week. One neighbor had a large mature
| tree cut down because it was shading their grass. Of course
| you can't see the lawns because all of the streets are lined
| on both sides with giant cars.
|
| In addition to the visual appearance, there's the noise. A
| relative of mine went on vacation recently, to a place that
| was more or less off the grid. His comment was that there
| were no string trimmers or leaf blowers. A lot of suburban
| neighborhoods are just a constant racket of equipment.
|
| I get it, it's a culture thing. But it's interesting to see
| that there are actually lots of possibilities for what to do
| with the grounds around a detached house.
| oblio wrote:
| Real greenery. The mind boggles at the lack of imagination.
|
| Trees, bushes, hedges.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Every lawn in my neighborhood has all of that, in addition
| to patches of green grass. Not many houses I've seen just
| have perfect manicured golf-course style green grass with
| no other plants.
| mhh__ wrote:
| To my that implies wandering around in a forest or tracking
| the edges of farmland (this is a very British thing keep in
| mind, YMMV), I don't think I'd get the same effect from some
| grass.
|
| I count myself fairly lucky that I can walk from the sea to a
| suburb to a field full of cows in less than an hour where I
| live.
| watwut wrote:
| The odd thing to me is that grass fields I see in nature are
| not arbitrary high. It naturally stays small in a lot of
| places. And there are even small flowers in it. Nature had
| also high grass, but why do people put the high one into
| gardens is weird.
| zip1234 wrote:
| Street trees!
| iso1631 wrote:
| My front garden is full of various different plants, much
| nicer to look at. Back garden has a lawn which the kids play
| football and other things on, not very interesting - the
| squirrels on the fence and power line, and and pheasants
| which seem to somehow get in are better
| mjh2539 wrote:
| Many HOAs in the United States require that you have a fully
| sodded lawn.
| eveningcoffee wrote:
| We kept batches of flowering grass in our garden for bees.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| Maybe I have slow growing grass. I mow every three weeks, and I
| feel like my neighbors do it every two. I thought weekly mowing
| was something mostly only seen in fictional portrayals of
| American fathers.
| c0brac0bra wrote:
| Perhaps they're fertilizing and you're not.
| nightski wrote:
| Our cool season grass grows pretty fast and weekly is best.
| Plus it is better for the lawn to cut more frequently as it
| stresses the grass less.
|
| There are a lot of things you can do to help bee populations. I
| can't imagine how you mow the lawn is that large of a factor
| considering the other things you can do.
| social_quotient wrote:
| In Austin Texas. I mow weekly during the growing season. We
| previously had lawn service and it was every 2 weeks. Once
| lockdowns happened I took this over. Mainly out of habit and a
| need to get some exercise, so it's every Saturday morning. I
| have kids so maybe there is some correlation :)
| softfalcon wrote:
| Yeah, weirdly, here in the Canadian "frozen tundra" West of
| Alberta, there's about 2-3 months where my grass goes into
| overdrive and I have to mow it once a week.
|
| Seriously considering landscaping to not need to do this. Wife
| and I have thought to turn the whole front and back yard into
| other greenery.
| ericd wrote:
| Other do better at hosting butterfly caterpillars, bees, etc,
| which helps feed birds and other wildlife, so I think that's
| a great idea that everyone should consider.
| softfalcon wrote:
| Agreed, I want my yard to contribute to the ecosystem
| instead of contributing to my "status" in suburbia.
| ericd wrote:
| Nice! We're looking at doing that too. This is a cool
| site for figuring out what to plant:
| https://www.nwf.org/NativePlantFinder/Plants - ranked by
| number of butterfly species they can host.
| zdragnar wrote:
| My yard is a mix of shade, part shade and full sun. Different
| areas of the lawn grow at different rates, but some definitely
| need to be cut more than once a week during the worst of the
| year to avoid constantly clogging up the mowing deck.
|
| Bear in mind this is a 5 acre lot that is 4/5 forest or water-
| definitely not a stereotypical suburban uniform green carpet.
| No pesticides or fertilizers used at all either.
| brenainn wrote:
| Here in suburban Australia, in my street anyway, there's
| several households that do it multiple times a week. My
| neighbour mows every other day. I had a neighbour in another
| place who was on his ride on mower every afternoon at 5pm.
| There isn't a daylight hour of the weekends where you can't
| hear a mower or whipper snipper (weed whacker in American) in
| the vicinity. I've really grown to hate lawns.
| kitten_mittens_ wrote:
| How hot is it there and how much does it rain? I grew up in
| Idaho, where in the summer it'd get to 42-44C relatively
| regularly. And there was at most 200mm of precipitation a
| year. Most of the grass in my parents' neighborhood was
| Kentucky Bluegrass. Mowing the lawn weekly was something that
| happened to help a bit with water retention.
|
| My dad always insisted on mowing every 4 days though.
| brenainn wrote:
| Where I live is subtropical, and there are times in summer
| where the grass seems to grow tall overnight. For the rest
| of the year you can get away with mowing every two or three
| weeks to keep it under control. It's the striving for
| constant perfection that bothers me, instead of just
| waiting till it needs to be cut. I know these people
| probably enjoy it and have a lot of pride in a manicured
| lawn. I just want to live somewhere with less of them
| around.
| AnotherGoodName wrote:
| I don't know about op but keep in mind it's a big country.
| Very close in size to continental USA. With as much climate
| variation.
|
| Sydney for example has a higher annual rainfall than places
| that Americans consider rainy (eg. Seattle). Combine that
| with warmer temperatures and in many parts of Australia you
| are fighting a potential jungle more than fighting
| desertification.
|
| Canberra, the capital, on the other hand regularly gets
| below freezing which means less mowing required.
| graywh wrote:
| > higher annual rainfall than places that Americans
| consider rainy (eg. Seattle)
|
| a surprising amount of the US gets more rainfall than
| Seattle
|
| https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-17/this-
| simp...
| asdff wrote:
| Depends on how much water you get. During wet times of the
| summer, if you didn't mow at least once a week the mower would
| just clog up the next time you tried because the grass gets so
| thick so fast.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Could be they're putting down nitrogen. My lawn grows _much_
| faster if I throw down some nitrogen a couple times a year. As
| a bonus, happy grass crowds out most of the more obnoxious
| weeds (looking at you, quack grass).
| sokoloff wrote:
| It depends on your climate and grass. In MA (where this study
| was), many cool season grasses can grow well over an inch per
| week in the mid-May and late-September windows. (Turf type tall
| fescue can grow over two inches per week in those windows.)
| ghaff wrote:
| Yeah. I have a biweekly mowing service in MA. It's _barely_
| adequate in late spring (and especially if they get behind
| because it 's been rainy) and it's probably more frequent
| than needed during a dry late summer.
| rez9x wrote:
| If this year is anything like last year, I'll have to mow twice
| a week in the spring and then once a month in the summer. I mow
| at the second highest deck height though.
| mmcgaha wrote:
| Sweet, now I can say that I am doing it for mother earth instead
| of admitting that I am too lazy to do it every weekend.
| marmakoide wrote:
| The previous owner of my house was maintening a picture perfect
| green. With the kids and the jobs, I didn't want to follow that
| practice. Too much time for a soil not made for this, lots of
| fertilizer, various chemicals...
|
| I fix the dead patches every spring and autumn with clover seeds
| and compost made from grass clippings, egg shells and
| vegetables/fruits peels. Zero fertilizer or weed killers, I
| remove by hand the weeds I don't like once in a while. I rake the
| garden twice a year to keep moss under control.
|
| 5 years later, our garden no longer looks like a green, but a
| prairie with the usual local plants. Since 2 years poppies are
| colonizing the most sun exposed parts, with spectacular blooms we
| are eagerly waiting for. Worms, larvae, slugs and snails are
| plenty, so birds are always at work foraging. Whatever dies
| during the hottest weeks regenerates in autumn. Plenty of bees
| are foraging the clovers and bindweed flowers.
|
| It's looks nice, it's alive, it's much less work and money to
| maintain, it's self regenerating.
| alliao wrote:
| did you receive any complaints?
| beaconstudios wrote:
| That's awesome - natural and native ecosystems are what we
| should be aiming for, not sterile lawns. It's better for the
| environment and for biodiversity, lower maintainence, and you
| get the benefits of an ecosystem like surprise blooms.
|
| I don't know if you're aware of this (you probably are but I'm
| posting it for readers anyway) but there's a movement for doing
| this in many aspects of our nature management called
| permaculture. It's pretty cool!
| blkhp19 wrote:
| Would love to see a couple of photos of what's possible! Any
| maybe some info about where you're located?
| simpthrown8id wrote:
| Personally, I'd love to just get rid of most or at least part of
| my lawn and replace with growing food, like Rob Greenfield.
| anyone interested in turning their lawn into a food growing yard,
| should check out his work: https://www.robgreenfield.org/
| Phenomenit wrote:
| Only reason I mow is because it reduces the chance of the
| neighbors cat shitting in my yard. Otherwise I would have a
| beautiful Meadow.
| emj wrote:
| Camera that can identify cats and a sprinkler.
| Phenomenit wrote:
| That's the dream, a anti-cat water turret.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Pet golden eagle.
| quesera wrote:
| ...You'd have a beautiful meadow, which would attract wildlife,
| which would shit in your meadow.
|
| Go ahead and let the cat shit in your meadow, everyone's
| happier that way.
| thenerdhead wrote:
| I'm actually building a DIY lawncare app right now. One of the
| features is having the right frequency of mowing depending on how
| much rain & fertilizer product plan you follow.
|
| It would mean a lot to me if you took a quick survey so I could
| understand if there's value in the idea:
|
| https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/XF8RZJF
| sokoloff wrote:
| Regardless of whether I mowed 0.5, 1.0, or 2.0 times per week, my
| lawn already has no "lawn flowers", aka weeds.
|
| We keep some milkweed along one fence and have a bed of local
| wildflowers along the roadway and a vegetable garden for the
| bees, but this article is about increasing lawn flowers/weeds
| rather than directly about mowing frequency.
| worik wrote:
| Perhaps you should introduce some?
|
| Flowering lawn weeds are such a wonderful addition to a lawn.
|
| The bees will be pleased, but you may need to get a hive nonce
| you have flowers established. From the complaints here about
| local by-laws you may need to have a stealth hive.
|
| Worth the effort.
| jelliclesfarm wrote:
| We'd have bee abundance if there are less lawns.
| lightlyused wrote:
| I really dislike mowing in general, so mow as little as possible.
| Yes, I have the worst looking lawn on the block, but I also now
| have less grass and more diversity in "weedy" plants. My quote is
| "if I wanted to be a land lord, I would move to England" when
| asked about my lawn.
| aimor wrote:
| Would someone with access say how short they were mowing?
| thenerdhead wrote:
| > Lawns were mowed from May through September in 2013 and 2014,
| using a Toro 19'' self-mulching push mower, (mowing height set
| at 6.35 cm). Grass clippings remained on the lawn. We assigned
| each yard to a mowing frequency regime: mowed every seven days
| (oneweek; n = 8 yards), 12-14 days (two-weeks; n = 7 yards), or
| 18-21 days (three-weeks; n = 8 yards) to represent the range of
| typical mowing behaviors (one to two weeks) to a more extreme
| frequency (three weeks; Robbins, 2007). Seven yards
| participated in both years of the study and thus these repeat
| yards were assigned a different mowing regime for the second
| year of the study. To ensure households adhered to the
| experimental restrictions (e.g., frequency and height of
| mowing), we provided a free lawn mowing service and mowed all
| participating lawns for the duration of the study
|
| > Summarized bee abundance and richness in relation to lawn
| mowing treatments were as follows: weekly mowing = 1425 bees
| representing 72 species, mowed every two weeks = 1903 bees
| representing 60 species, and mowed every three weeks = 1259
| bees representing 62 species (Fig. 2, Appendix A1). Our
| rarefaction analysis reflected these overall abundance and
| richness values, showing lower bee richness in the two-week
| treatment
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| Wait, what? _Weekly_ mowing? What the hell? Who does that? This
| sounds absolutely disastrous for grass and its ecosystem. I don
| 't see a reason to mow more than a few times per _year_.
| jsnodlin wrote:
| slothtrop wrote:
| The grass in Ontario for instance grows very fast. Plus, weeds.
| Most people here cut weekly to keep it trim. They're also
| usually gas-powered.
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| But what does "very fast" mean? Other comments are talking
| about something like 15 cm in a month. That's not a lot.
| WalterBright wrote:
| I hate mowing the lawn. I might do it once a month. Glad to see
| confirmation of how great my laziness is!
| jmull wrote:
| Bees love me. My neighbors don't! :)
| oxfordmale wrote:
| I am based in the UK and I cut the "grass" every 6 weeks in the
| spring and summer. I have severe hay fever and I only mow the
| grass after a good bout of rain, otherwise I get quite a severe
| reaction. My neighbor does religiously mow every week in the
| spring and summer season.
|
| I have found my green carpet to be a lot more drought resistant
| than my neighbours perfect lawn, and the biodiversity attracts
| more bees, toads and other insects. However, I appreciate many
| would class the biodiversity as weeds (moss, clover dandelion,
| daisies).
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Also stop using herbicide and plant some clover. My neighbors
| hate me but I (and the bees, bunnies, and other critters) love my
| almost white lawn in July. It smells great, and the clover keeps
| the grass healthy.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| The use-case for herbicides are large agricultural fields
| (several acres) where a worker can no longer deal with weeds
| individually.
|
| Most herbicides require you to wear PPE. But in the residential
| market people ignore those instructions. Most of them are also
| unaware of the existence of safety data sheets, and are also
| unaware that the product packaging is not required to have
| every safety instruction for the product. The result: a
| proliferation of cancer lawsuits against herbicide
| manufacturers.
|
| After use, herbicides still leave the dead plant behind that
| needs removal.
|
| So, in practice, using herbicides for a residential yard is as
| stupid as declawing a cat.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| I consider clover to be a weed and go to great lengths to
| eradicate it. People underestimate how many people just want
| lawns of perfect, green, undifferentiated grass.
| mhh__ wrote:
| But people like coldplay and voted for the Nazis!
|
| If you don't want a weed on your garden, fair enough, but
| what's the point of the homogenous-lawn ideal Americans seem
| to have? It feels like a holdover from something like cold-
| war cultural propaganda.
| sokoloff wrote:
| What's the point of a manicured English garden? What's the
| point of a fine suit or dress? What's the point of a nice
| oil painting? What's the point of a Porsche 911 or Ferrari
| 488?
|
| People have different preferences and that used to be OK.
| pfdietz wrote:
| Veblen goods. They display that you can afford them.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| In the Midwest you don't even need a 6 figure salary to
| have a lawn.
| mhh__ wrote:
| Lawns would be like everyone owning the same model of
| Porsche.
| kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote:
| Like Subarus in Portland
| underwater wrote:
| Not American, but keep a relatively short mono-cultured
| lawn. Having short grass keeps the outdoor space usable, my
| kids can play outside in bare feet with no fear of stinging
| nettles or bee stings. They're always playing soccer,
| obstacle courses, or just running around. I have plenty of
| native and exotic trees and shrubs around the yard, so
| there is always something for the numerous birds and bees
| to eat.
| gordaco wrote:
| I'm going to be that guy and point out that clover wasn't
| considered a weed until a chemical that killed clover, but
| not grass, was developed by Dow Chemical and the company
| wanted to sell it as a weed killer, so they ran a campaign
| about it.
|
| https://laidbackgardener.blog/2020/11/04/clover-in-the-
| lawn-...
|
| _The secret was to turn clover from a friend into an enemy.
| Pesticide companies decided to launch an intensive
| advertising campaign to convince homeowners that white clover
| was a weed that needed to be destroyed. They spent literally
| millions on advertising to persuade unconvinced gardeners._
| swayvil wrote:
| Propaganda can turn black to white and white to black. And
| it propagates down the generations better than genetic
| damage. And we just call it "facts" or something.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| That's great but, I independently came to the conclusion
| that clover looks horrible on a nice lawn.
| kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote:
| Probably not independently. You no doubt got the idea
| from TV, movies, etc which are basically pushing the same
| propaganda. You think you're above such things, when in
| reality you're a victim of it.
| candiddevmike wrote:
| What a waste of time, energy, and resources to maintain
| something so unnatural. Truly a testament to man's hubris
| against nature.
| tiahura wrote:
| Do you feel the same way about body odor?
| drekk wrote:
| I don't feel the same way about bacteria colonizing my
| skin as I do about an ecologically dead crop monoculture
| that came into style among the British nobility as a way
| to show off wealth (look peasants! I don't need to grow
| food with my land)
|
| If I ignore the smell of my body I'll eventually be
| rewarded with a staph infection or worse. If I don't use
| grass monoculture on my lawn I eventually am rewarded
| with pollinators, blooms, and an ecologically active
| space.
|
| Lawns require 200 gallons of drinking water per day. In
| 2005, the amount of lawn cultivated in the US would cover
| the entire terrestrial surface of Texas. We use 17
| million gallons of gas on lawn mowers every year, and
| tens of millions of pounds of chemical fertilizer and
| pesticides. All said, Americans spend more than $36
| billion USD a year on lawn care, more than 4x the annual
| budget of the Environmental Protection Agency.
|
| At least with a shower I get something out of the water I
| used. With lawns what do you get? Empty green space. Fuck
| bees, fuck butterflies, fuck rabbits, I need my neighbors
| to know I can afford to let my land lay fallow in an
| aesthetically inert way.
| nightski wrote:
| Deodorant doesn't prevent infections, pretty sure that is
| what parent was referring to. Not showers.
|
| My lawn gets most of it's water from rain actually. We
| supplement occasionally when necessary. But during
| drought we just let it go a little brown. Not a big deal.
|
| I still love my lawn and mowing it is a very nice break
| from sitting on the computer.
| enraged_camel wrote:
| I think this is a poor analogy. Body odor is a proxy for
| personal hygiene, and can be anywhere from unpleasant to
| actively revolting for others. Whereas how nice your lawn
| looks will pretty much be a matter of subjective opinion.
| Things that look orderly may be more pleasant to look at,
| but the _lack_ of order in this particular context is
| unlikely to, say, make someone gag.
|
| It's worth realizing that carefully curated and
| maintained lawns are more of a signifier of wealth than
| anything else. The trend originated in Victorian-era
| Europe, and somehow stuck.
| dimitrios1 wrote:
| Or people who live in extreme climates and rely on HVAC
| systems to pump air conditioned / heated air in their
| homes and environments the majority of the time?
|
| The reality is the majority of our modern world and lives
| can be seen as a waste of energy, resources, and, "hubris
| against nature" and it seems like there is some
| subjective line for each person that delineates what is
| too far.
| [deleted]
| worstestes wrote:
| Are we really equating technology relevant to our
| survival in different climates to keeping a manicured
| lawn?
| sokoloff wrote:
| The overwhelming majority of HVAC energy use is for
| comfort, not survival.
| dimitrios1 wrote:
| This just proves my point. Quite a generous framing to
| support your subjective view! "Technology relevant to our
| survival in different climates" can also be restated as
| "wasting energy and resources to support people living
| comfortably in naturally uninhabitable environments", it
| just depends on what degree of an environmentalist
| extremist you are.
|
| Why should we burn endless amounts of gas/coal/other
| energy when the "natural" solution is to either naturally
| adapt or to simply live in more habitable environments.
|
| Anyways, yes, I'll give you that comparing HVAC to lawns
| is silly, but it doesn't take much imagination to think
| of less silly examples that we accept. So my question is
| who draws the lines? Whose standard is the standard that
| everyone should follow? Manicured lawns not cool, ok.
| What about backyard pools? What about irrigation systems?
| What about drainage ditches or other infrastructure that
| allow for land to perk so more housing can be made
| available, but negatively affects downstream wildlife?
| Etc, etc.
| woodruffw wrote:
| It's not clear that "drawing lines" is a useful mental
| model in this scenario.
|
| Speaking personally, it's about externalities: American
| suburbs have _ludicrous_ amounts of common and private
| infrastructure, all financed through the lie of infinite
| and perpetual growth. All of that infrastructure has
| hidden externalities, ones that aren 't being addressed
| on the individual or state levels. Monoculture lawns are
| just one tiny example of that, manifest in their cost to
| the local ecosystem (and additional water demands,
| pesticide use, &c.).
| swayvil wrote:
| But it made the suits wealthier. Surely that's something.
| goda90 wrote:
| What's the point? How does that enhance your life?
| coryrc wrote:
| Might like going barefoot and not stepping on bees.
| pasquinelli wrote:
| i stepped on a bee once and only once in my life and it
| was on the gravelly bank of a river. you know how it's
| hard to swat a fly? bees aren't trying to get stepped on,
| abd they're watching more closely than you.
| drekk wrote:
| Yeah Americans not wanting to interact with pollinators
| is why they are disappearing from our environments. You
| could achieve the same thing with zero-scaping also, not
| like you need to waste water to create a pollinator-free
| zone.
|
| But then it wouldn't look the certain way you want, would
| it? That seems to be the main concern for Americans.
| slothtrop wrote:
| Aren't there plentiful suitable environments for bees
| _outside_ of suburbia? I don 't think the issue is lack
| of environment so much as herbicides and destructive
| habits.
| alar44 wrote:
| Lol ok.
| michaelcampbell wrote:
| > I consider clover to be a weed ...
|
| You and Dow chemial, who demonized this Nitrogen fixing
| wonder in order to make more money.
| odonnellryan wrote:
| What clover? Would love to do this even though clover is really
| expensive. I planted some last year but it only half kinda
| took.
| oblio wrote:
| America, the place where one of the cheapest team sports on
| the planet (real football) is too expensive to be played by
| poor people and one of the most abundant weeds in temperate
| climates is too expensive...
| DFHippie wrote:
| It's not too expensive; it's too class-coded. The
| football/soccer, I mean. There are plenty of poor
| immigrants playing it. And where I live the clover appears
| for free. Maybe it's spread by rabbits.
| swayvil wrote:
| Where I am, having a lot of clover in your lawn is considered
| to be a sign that the soil is short some nutrient. Nitrogen
| or potassium or something.
|
| My lawn is about 1/3 clover. Just grows wild.
|
| The dirt here is mostly clay, if that significates.
| jws wrote:
| Nitrogen. Clover can fix its own nitrogen so the game gets
| tilted in its favor when other plants are struggling for
| nitrogen.
| zip1234 wrote:
| The trick is to do nothing and it will balance out in a year
| or two :)
| candiddevmike wrote:
| It's a mix of white and pink, mostly white though. I also
| planted some creeping thyme and I keep a lot unmowed with
| some wildflowers. I have a decent sized lawn (little over 1/2
| acre), but a good chunk of it is taken up by a septic system.
| lijogdfljk wrote:
| Do you have tall grass too? I planted clover a while back
| over my existing grass and if i didn't mow i'd still have a
| foot tall grass, which i find really annoying.
|
| I still love the clover, and it helps keep the grass a bit
| more sane - but the length of the grass is my primary
| fight.
| [deleted]
| londons_explore wrote:
| Add rabbits. Wild rabbits look after themselves (no need
| to cage them or anything), and will keep grass down to a
| height of about 2 inches.
|
| They stay within about 50 yards of wherever their 'home'
| hole is, so they won't run off (although their offspring
| may!).
|
| You still need to mow about twice a year to get rid of
| plants the rabbits don't like to eat, which will
| otherwise grow into bushes.
| luckman212 wrote:
| Do rabbits follow the _don 't shit where you eat_ mantra?
| i.e. will there be rabbit poo all over the lawn?
| londons_explore wrote:
| No, but rabbit poo is tiny and isn't too nasty. It won't
| stick to your shoe if you stand on it for example.
|
| Your biggest headache with rabbits is they'll eat other
| plants you might want (vegetables etc), and will dig
| burrows in random places. But in my opinion, both those
| are well worth it for having a lawn that mows itself.
| SSLy wrote:
| Creeping thyme is not native to americas, you might wish to
| avoid that particular plant.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| One good thing about clover is it can propagate naturally! If
| you had some native clover half kinda take last year, it
| should be verdant this year.
| xahrepap wrote:
| We're planting clover in our park strip to augment the lawn.
|
| We had some naturally move in last year and we really liked it
| So we're going to help it out. It was soft, and keeping the
| lawn green/alive/pretty in the park strip is notoriously water
| wasteful.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| We just gave up on the parking strip. Close enough to the
| heat of the asphalt road that it takes a fair amount of water
| to keep it green. So instead I ripped it out and put in rocks
| of varying sizes 1-3 inches, along with a few hardy shrubs
| that can take some abuse and don't grow too fast. Capped all
| the sprinklers but one next to each shrub and then ran a drip
| line to it.
| maguirre wrote:
| Do you have a picture of what it looks like in full display? I
| have been thinking of trying clover on mine.
| silisili wrote:
| Not OP, but here was my yard a few years ago. I never planted
| any, it just spread itself I guess. Very beautiful and
| attracted bumble bees and rabbits. Apologies for the quality,
| cheap Android cam 4 years ago, zoomed in at that.
|
| https://ibb.co/nsB7fFT
| tbihl wrote:
| When I see a picture like this, I wonder what everyone else
| is doing. This picture would be the result of extreme lawn
| care at my house...
|
| I normally don't cut the grass until it's long enough that
| I can pick the flowers there and bring them inside
| (monthly?)
| silisili wrote:
| In that particular city, monthly wouldn't fly. The grass
| would be nearly 8 inches to a foot tall, which means
| mice, snakes, mosquitoes, ticks, you name it.
|
| Though it's really just the grass and dandelions that
| grow tall. If I had my way, I'd kill all the grass and
| just throw out wild violets and clover. So much prettier,
| and requires way less maintenance.
| chris_va wrote:
| Bunnies can keep the grass quite short.
| tbihl wrote:
| We have very few rabbits around me. I've heard it's
| because the nearby golf course provides space for foxes.
| Otherwise I imagine they'd struggle with all the backyard
| fences.
|
| My real goal is to provide a maximally inhospitable
| environment for cockroaches of all sizes.
| kansface wrote:
| Rabbits don't mow the lawn, they chew holes into it.
| tharkun__ wrote:
| I move the guinea pig run across our lawn. Once they've
| cut it down "enough" I move it, so that it overlaps
| slightly. The wild bunnies do help. It's funny when they
| look at each other. Cavies inside the run, bunny outside,
| all of them chewing.
| dbrgn wrote:
| I don't have any clover here, but lots of flowers. We
| usually wait with the first cut in spring until the flowers
| are mostly gone. They displace grass unfortunately, but
| look very nice, and insects love them.
| https://i.imgur.com/sbqhEYt.jpeg
| silisili wrote:
| That is really nice, thanks for sharing.
|
| Currently in the process of finding a house, and
| specifically avoiding HOAs. They'd never let something
| like this fly, which IMO should be illegal(not your yard,
| rules banning something like your yard).
| dbrgn wrote:
| I rent, but the homeowner doesn't care. We're three
| parties in the house, one neighbour doesn't care either,
| and the other neighbour's wife is sad if we cut the
| flowers :)
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