[HN Gopher] A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner working...
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       A new history of Byzantium reveals the inner workings of a late
       antique empire
        
       Author : mr_golyadkin
       Score  : 111 points
       Date   : 2022-03-13 18:51 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (thecritic.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (thecritic.co.uk)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Uehreka wrote:
       | This sounds fascinating. I almost want to get it just so I can
       | learn what is meant by "The cursus publicus was hailed for its
       | efficiency, at least until Justinian got his hands on it. "
        
         | atdrummond wrote:
         | A modern analog would be the USPS historically and what it's
         | turned into under recent administrations, especially
         | accelerated under DeJoy's administration.
        
           | hetspookjee wrote:
           | Imagine an analogous overlay much like you provided but
           | continuous for such historical texts. That would be
           | something. Like a Google translate from historical or
           | cultural texts to your own contemporary culture, or a battery
           | of footnotes.
           | 
           | On a tangent. The latest version of Candide on Gutenberg has
           | such footnotes spread throughout to explain some obscure
           | mentions in the text. An absolute recommender.
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | A battery of footnotes, commentary, and other marginalia is
             | the norm for historical texts. The commentary is frequently
             | more significant than the primary work.
        
         | Koshkin wrote:
         | > _cursus publicus_
         | 
         | Didn't the Byzantians speak Greek (rather than Latin)?
        
           | Veen wrote:
           | They did, but the cursus publicus was inherited from the
           | Western Empire. It's demosios dromos in Greek.
        
           | mr_toad wrote:
           | Early on, the official language was still Latin. The
           | population of Constantinople spoke Greek natively. Later on,
           | Greek became common in official business as well.
        
         | doctor_eval wrote:
         | This is fascinating.
         | 
         | "The cursus publicus (Latin: "the public way"; Ancient Greek:
         | demosios dromos, demosios dromos) was the state mandated and
         | supervised courier and transportation service of the Roman
         | Empire, later inherited by the Eastern Roman Empire. It was a
         | system based on obligations placed on private persons by the
         | Roman State"
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_publicus
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | Isn't it wild that the Roman Empire lasted until the 1400s, only
       | to finally fall to the Ottoman Empire?
       | 
       | But as the Empire fell, a large set of manuscripts were brought
       | by the great Plethon to Cosimo d'Medici. Marsilio Ficino's
       | translation of Greek classics into Latin--like the complete works
       | of Plato and the Hermetica--helped kindle the European
       | Renaissance as we know it.
        
         | canjobear wrote:
         | Why was it hard for people in Western Europe to get Greek
         | manuscripts before the fall of the Byzantine Empire? It's not
         | that far from Rome to Athens. Seems like you could just ride
         | down to Brundisium and then get on a boat, get to Athens and
         | ask around. Before 1054 there wasn't an East-Wests schism so
         | the clerics in Greece wouldn't be hostile.
         | 
         | Was the political situation really so chaotic and crazy that
         | you couldn't take that trip? Or was no one interested?
        
           | xavxav wrote:
           | The manuscripts weren't in Greece. These works were written
           | centuries ago, many of them _before_ the rise of the roman
           | empire. As books were expensive back then, they would often
           | be found in wealthy cities like Rome, Alexandria or
           | Constantinople and often taken as spoils after conquests. The
           | fall of the Western Roman empire additionally meant no one
           | had time or resources to go collecting old dusty manuscripts,
           | but the rising Arabic empires did. Later in the medieval
           | period, notably after the crusades and moor conquest of
           | spain, monks began (re)translating the arabic copies of these
           | works, bringing them back west along with many other novel
           | works, commentaries and inventions.
        
         | dan-robertson wrote:
         | One thing to note is that the Greek works likely could not have
         | survived medieval Europe if they had left Constantinople a lot
         | earlier. There were two great advantages to renaissance
         | scholars:
         | 
         | 1. The works were still in their original Greek (rather than
         | translations into Latin done long ago, or the translations from
         | Greek to Arabic (and then to Latin) that came in through
         | moorish Spain).
         | 
         | 2. Religious attitudes allowed the works to be studied close to
         | their original form. Early Christians were basically of the
         | opinion that if a book disagreed with the bible it was heresy
         | and should be destroyed, and if it agreed with the bible it was
         | unnecessary and could be destroyed. That was less the case in
         | the eastern side of the church and of course a big exaggeration
         | too: there were old Latin translations of eg Plato however they
         | had been quite bastardised to conform with Christian theology
         | (I understand Aristotle was a little less bastardised as early
         | Christian theology was itself quite Aristotelian). By the
         | renaissance less bastardisation was required (if translating to
         | Latin rather than the vernacular).
         | 
         | Without being transferred so late to the west, the works may
         | never have made it to modern times in such a complete form.
        
         | throwawaycities wrote:
         | Well there was also The Holy Roman Empire (Translatio imperii)
         | following the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire and currently
         | the See of Rome where the Pope holds title as bishop of Rome as
         | just 1 of a handful of absolute monarchs recognized under
         | international law.
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-13 23:00 UTC)