[HN Gopher] Strava abruptly ends 3rd party data sync to Apple He...
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Strava abruptly ends 3rd party data sync to Apple Health
Author : andyzei
Score : 36 points
Date : 2022-03-14 19:56 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.dcrainmaker.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.dcrainmaker.com)
| exabrial wrote:
| All of the (Garmin, Strava, Apple, and Google [who is trying
| really hard but failing]) want a monopoly on your health data.
| Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've
| shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information.
|
| The Strava/Garmin relationship is an interesting one: Strava has
| the social network, Garmin has the best devices [for serious
| Athletes, not casual users]. Garmin Connect is pretty cool in
| it's own right, but the Social features never really took off,
| which is where Strava plays and has a de-fact monopoly. Strava
| can't survive without Garmin, and Garmin benefits from Strava's
| content.
|
| Garmin has pulled some 'power moves' in the past though with
| people it doesn't like... A competitor: Wahoo, who made cycling
| GPS computers, was cut off from inserting data into Garmin
| Connect and it left a lot of users out in the cold. Most serious
| cyclists will use Garmin devices, not an Apple watch, to track
| their rides as it seamlessly integrates with ANT+ sensors: power,
| cadence, wheel speed, heart rate, chainring and cog positions
| sensors.
|
| Interesting to see Strava cut off Apple... I'm guessing it has to
| do something with preventing them from developing an alternative
| to the Strava social network.
| oneplane wrote:
| Strava isn't cut off from Apple. Instead, Garmin/Fitbit etc.
| would send their data to Strava, which then would forward it to
| Apple for them. The part where Strava takes the data from non-
| Strava apps is the one that got disabled (presumably by strava
| and not by garmin, but either could have).
| usrusr wrote:
| Really surprising to see Strava actively avoiding the central
| switchboard role that would be such a powerful retention
| feature. I wouldn't be surprised to see it come back very
| soon, with some low level UX polisher receiving that talk
| about power and responsibility.
| sulam wrote:
| Garmin couldn't directly disable this, once Strava has your
| data they can do with it whatever they want, licensing
| permitting. Which is a segue into - while I have no specific
| knowledge of this case, I do think it's somewhat tricky to
| take data from a third party and then hand it on to another
| third party. Presumably all of this was mediated by the user,
| and user's desires should be paramount here, but it's an
| example of why I believe OAuth is fairly broken and what we
| should all be giving permission to is capabilities, not
| access.
| verisimi wrote:
| I'm still shocked and amazed that anyone would willingly share
| their health data with corporations. Why? What could go right?
| I say that acknowledging your point that this is possibly one
| of the better corporations out there.
|
| > Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've
| shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information.
|
| What about the concern that the company is bought out in the
| future? Or that it may be sharing data already, with government
| agencies, etc? Or companies that it works with?
|
| I honestly can't even imagine the criteria whereby a
| corporation could be 'trusted' with personal information!
|
| It boggles my mind, that people think about this - and plainly
| you do - but come to the judgement that its ok for corporations
| to have this personal data!
| mulmen wrote:
| I prefer the corporations not have the _data_ at all. The
| problem is Apple is simultaneously the best and also pretty
| bad at stewarding such an ecosystem. In theory all my actual
| health data would live on a device I own, encrypted, and
| accessible only by the apps I approve. In reality Apple can
| 't or won't provide those mechanisms. Every other corporation
| wants to collect and sell my data.
|
| Apple had a chance to make on-premise data storage a thing.
| They had AirPort, which combined with a Mac Mini could
| provide full iCloud functionality from the home. iCloud
| itself could have simply been an encrypted offsite backup,
| like Tarsnap with no options.
|
| Instead Apple built a system that still puts clear user data
| within their reach.
| js2 wrote:
| > Garmin has the best devices [for serious Athletes, not casual
| users].
|
| I'm a happy Garmin user but I know a lot of distance runners
| that have switched to Coros. They love the battery life w/o
| sacrificing GPS accuracy.
| trentgreene wrote:
| I've rearchitected my data flow for cycling multiple times now,
| and it's frustrating to do it again
| ijustwanttovote wrote:
| I kept messing with my settings yesterday to figure out why my
| Strava data wasn't exporting to Apple health. Now I know why, I
| must've spent an hour trying to get it to work.
| samschooler wrote:
| Note: this restriction is limited to THIRD PARTY data, so:
|
| Strava -> Apple Health, still works
|
| Garmin/Fitbod/3rd party app -> Strava -> Apple Health, no longer
| syncs.
|
| IMHO this is better for me because now I don't have duplicates in
| Apple Health and can sync to both services. But to each they're
| own I guess.
| artdigital wrote:
| Wonder if this includes third party sensor data that's tracked
| with Strava. Like if I use a chest strap and record into
| Strava, will the exported data include the sensor data or is
| that considered "third party"
| stingrae wrote:
| Why not let users chose to enable/disable?
| Gigachad wrote:
| I think this can make sense. The recording devices ideally
| should have their own integrations with Apple Health so the
| source pushes to all the data repos rather than repos chaining
| the data along.
| notacoward wrote:
| The weird thing is that they claim it's to avoid duplicate
| activities, but they totally know how to recognize duplicates
| already. Every so often, there's some sort of glitch in one of my
| activities getting from Garmin to Strava. If I'm feeling
| impatient, I download the .fit file from Garmin and upload it to
| Strava myself, and _I never get a duplicate that way_. Happened
| for the first time in a while just last week. Clearly, whenever
| Garmin _does_ send the data, Strava is perfectly capable of
| recognizing an activity it already has, and it does the right
| thing. I 'm just not buying that excuse.
|
| BTW and a bit OT, I find it very impressive that Strava can
| _retroactively_ create a leaderboard going back years for a newly
| created segment, meaning that they must evaluate potentially
| millions of nearby activities for overlaps, often in just a few
| minutes. That 's a hell of a query. Anybody know of more
| information on how they do it?
| mulmen wrote:
| Millions of activities is approximately zero activities. That's
| an inconsequential amount of data.
|
| Even if it is a couple orders of magnitude larger than I think
| geographic partitioning can keep the volume small enough to
| easily fit in RAM.
| mdoms wrote:
| Incredibly ignorant statement. An activity can have thousands
| of data points across dozens of metrics. A record of your
| route to 1 meter or smaller precision for a 5 hour bike ride
| is alone thousands of data points. Along with hundreds or
| thousands of time series points for heart rate, elevation,
| cadence, power, respiration, etc etc... Millions of
| activities means tracking tens of billions of data points and
| perhaps an order of magnitude more than that.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| I thought they meant duplicate activities on the Apple Health
| side. If they can't read what the other services are writing to
| Apple Health then they have no way of avoiding duplicates.
| Gigachad wrote:
| I wonder what is going on at Strava. It feels like peak Strava
| was some time around 2018. Since then, it seems like features
| have only been getting disabled, hidden behind opt in flags, or
| moved to the paid plans. I completely understand the decision to
| move things to paid since their service does cost a lot to run
| and the subscription isn't expensive, but where are all the new
| and cool features that should have come out over the last few
| years?
|
| And I wonder if the article is correct in that they are pivoting
| away from segments. That seems strange since segments seem like
| the most compelling feature.
| usrusr wrote:
| > And I wonder if the article is correct in that they are
| pivoting away from segments
|
| That's not what DCR wrote, that part was clearly about user
| perception: Strava has grown into something bigger than just
| that app that declares you KOM when you go really fast.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| They're starting to run it like a business.
|
| Most apps/startups begin as an exploration of product/market
| fit. They'll try a lot of different things and use analytics
| (even simple server-side stats) to determine what people
| actually use in the app. Very frequently, you discover that the
| things you thought your users would want are actually only used
| by 0.05% of your customers. Eventually you have to start
| shedding rarely used features and limiting free plans, even if
| it makes the non-paying users angry.
|
| Truth is, it doesn't really matter if you're losing someone who
| spend 5 years on the free plan but refused to sign up for the
| paid plan. They're not converting to paid unless they're forced
| to, and you're not gaining any money by letting them stay on
| the free plan for another 5 years.
|
| > but where are all the new and cool features that should have
| come out over the last few years?
|
| Cutting rarely-used features like this one could be a sign that
| they're trying to free up engineering resources to ship new
| features.
| site-packages1 wrote:
| Paid member for a decade here. They've pulled some things that
| I enjoy, like the Instagram sync and nerfed the Flyby map. I've
| met so many people that I've chatted with briefly on a ride,
| then found them on Flyby after and we added each other. I do
| get the privacy concerns of stalkers or whatever, but there are
| better ways to handle on the Flyby feature. The nerf of that is
| by far the biggest bad thing that has happened, imo.
|
| I don't blame them for adding things behind paywall. But behind
| the paywall they have indeed added features I find compelling,
| such as the new 3D maps, which is really cool, new heatmap
| functionality, and new functionality around fudging the
| start/end of rides randomly so people have a harder time
| working out where you live. I think it's still strong. But I am
| biased because I love Strava. If they want a CTO I believe I
| have the resume and requisite personal life to make them
| successful. :) Please hire me before making the decision to
| pivot from segments, if that's on the table! /s, but maybe not
| pedalpete wrote:
| From discussions I've had with people at Strava, they're trying
| to be more focused on implementing a few key features really
| well. When the original founders returned in 2018 or 2019, the
| app had a ton of features that had been half integrated,
| couldn't be found in order to be used, etc etc.
|
| They paired back things that weren't working, moved to focus on
| revenue (as they weren't going to be able to grow into the
| social network for all activities like they tried).
|
| I think it's the right strategy, but this move makes no sense.
| It's very easy for them to manage duplicate data, and I'm
| surprised to see them suggest users set-up their garmin device
| to connect directly to Apple. This essentially makes it easier
| for strava to be cut out of the loop in the future if the
| social aspect isn't working for you.
| s1mon wrote:
| Strava is extremely frustrating. I've been a paid user for 10+
| years. They do add features from time to time, but it's amazing
| how slowly it happens. There's a forum on their web site for
| user feedback and suggestions, but it seems like they pay
| little attention to the users. So many of their users that I
| know feel like a run or bike ride didn't happen if they don't
| record it on Strava. It's a super addictive and sticky product,
| yet Strava seems to squander this loyalty by ignoring their
| customers.
|
| Route building and personal heatmaps are some of my favorite
| features, but there's so much that could be added (like a
| simple search). To some degree their customers are spread out
| over so many market segments beyond the original biking and
| running that they started with. Each segment has their own
| needs and wants. Then there's all the hardware (watches, power
| meters, trainers, etc..) that needs to be integrated and
| supported.
| asdff wrote:
| I'm an occasional strava user because I wanted just something
| to log these data and strava seemed like the popular choice,
| but what a clunky app. First off there are so many features
| and I have no clue how to use any of them, half of them ask
| for a subscription. Feels like my junky cut rate wyzecam app
| always asking to upcharge me, or maybe Spirit Airlines. The
| auto pause feature rarely works correctly (maybe not at all?)
| on my cellphone. I'm sitting there still as a statue and I'm
| watching average speed tick down...
|
| I used it snowboarding and there's some way to track runs and
| push out the whole day of skiing as one post, but I couldn't
| figure it out, so I just polluted my own feed with these
| single run posts. Then for some of them I forget to start
| recording halfway down the run because once again thanks to
| the broken auto pause feature, so now I need to remember to
| start it up at the top of the hill in addition to already
| having to put on a snowboard binding. Then thanks to the auto
| pause and me forgetting about pausing the run, it records me
| shuffling about in the lift line and then riding 25mph on the
| nose on the gondola.
| outside1234 wrote:
| There is no business here that scales sadly. In fact, it gets
| more expensive for Strava to operate the longer you are a
| subscriber
|
| And it apparently isn't valuable enough to charge more for
| ($5/month)
| KindAndFriendly wrote:
| >> it gets more expensive for Strava to operate the longer
| you are a subscriber
|
| What are you referring to? That Strava has to store&compute
| more and more data from a user the longer they are using the
| platform?
| whimsicalism wrote:
| Sad to see this happen to Apple, a strong crusader for open
| standards across competing systems.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| Honest question, is that comment meant at face value, or is it
| sarcastic?
|
| My impression of Apple has been that it's a mixed-bag for
| privacy, etc., so I'm actually not sure.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| Sarcastic :) (but hopefully not snarky?)
|
| For privacy, certainly they have been a crusader. For open
| standards, considerably less so.
| dc-programmer wrote:
| Apple's garden (orchard?) is famously walled. This just means
| they intentionally make their hardware incompatible with
| other hardware/software. Presumable so you have to buy more
| Apple stuff
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| outside1234 wrote:
| amen
| mdoms wrote:
| Garmin Connect is so much better than Strava it's not even close.
| The only reason I could possibly imagine preferring Strava is if
| I desperately need my social circle to be aware of my every
| workout. For those of us who do this for ourselves and not the
| approval of our peers Strava is miles behind.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Curious HN phenomenon: Describing reasons for behaviour as
| different from some hypothetical human with undesirable traits.
|
| This one:
|
| 1. I don't use Strava because I am doing things for myself and
| not the approval of my peers
|
| I shall shelve this along with my other HN faves which are
| (paraphrased):
|
| 1. I am remote because unlike everyone who goes to the office I
| have a _life_ with _hobbies_ and I don 't like having friends
| only from work
|
| 2. For those of us who own a phone for productive reasons and
| not for social "clout", iPhones are terrible
|
| 3. If you want to do work and not just sit around in coffee
| shops posting about work, you would avoid a Macbook
|
| Very enjoyable.
| adam-_- wrote:
| Maybe it's just what you know but every time I've used Garmin
| Connect it's felt like a dumpster fire compared to Strava.
|
| Even for route planning (years ago) which I would not say
| Strava is fantastic at, it still seemed worse.
|
| YMMV
| notacoward wrote:
| That's a very negative view of why people want to share on
| Strava. It's not all about ego. Sometimes it's about
| motivation, in two ways. I try to track _my own_ times on
| various segments to see how well my training is going, and
| sometimes challenge myself to beat those times, because that
| helps me keep going. Garmin Connect 's equivalent is a
| wasteland by comparison, though I do like the color-coded pace
| information. Even more importantly, it's a platform where
| friends can encourage each other, and celebrate each other's
| accomplishments. I greatly appreciate the "kudos" I get from
| others, and that was especially true after I had a setback some
| years ago. I have a friend right now who had an even more
| serious setback, and I'm glad I have a way to support him as he
| logs his rehab activities. It's the only forum where we're
| connected (he's not very online the way I am) and it enriches
| both of our lives.
|
| I know a lot of people think Strava is just about ego. I submit
| that it's often projection or envy from people who don't get
| what _they_ want out of it.
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