[HN Gopher] Strype, a Python frame-based editor
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       Strype, a Python frame-based editor
        
       Author : marianoguerra
       Score  : 89 points
       Date   : 2022-03-15 16:05 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (microbit.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (microbit.org)
        
       | tnzk wrote:
       | Interesting. Is there an open source and embeddable equivalent to
       | this?
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | The concept is not new:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame-based_editor
        
       | omnicognate wrote:
       | I've never really understood the desire to have high level
       | programming environments for the micro:bit - blocks and such.
       | I've nothing against those sorts of environments themselves. My
       | son has hugely enjoyed Scratch and I think it has been
       | educational for him. I just think it's missing out on what makes
       | micro:bit awesome.
       | 
       | With a high level programming environment a Micro:bit is just a
       | very limited, cheap bit of hardware you can do a few fun things
       | with. There's novelty to it but it can do much less than the
       | desktop computer you use to program it.
       | 
       | But the Micro:bit is an absolutely genius bit of kit for
       | exploring _low level_ programming!
       | 
       | AIUI, the Micro:bit has 2 microcontrollers on it, not one. The
       | one you program is actually the less powerful of the two. The
       | second microcontroller, which you can't program, is there to
       | control the USB port, implement mass storage and feed anything
       | you put there to the programmable microcontroller.
       | 
       | This means you have an extremely simple RISC chip, with extremely
       | simple hardware (leds, beepers and stuff) attached that you can
       | control, and you can program it in assembler or C just by copying
       | files to USB mass storage.
       | 
       | I haven't started with this yet, but when he's ready I plan to
       | explore this in detail with my son. It seems like a perfect
       | opportunity to explore how computers actually work and how
       | software and hardware interact, without the huge complexity of
       | more powerful hardware.
       | 
       | I mean, this should be educational for _me_!
       | 
       | This book looks like a potential starting point (not published
       | yet, though):
       | https://spivey.oriel.ox.ac.uk/baremetal/Bare_Metal_micro:bit
        
       | addet0x wrote:
       | Interesting. Haven't tried it myself but looks neat.
       | 
       | And here my 2 cents: I would be seriously surprised if Strype
       | didn't have any intention of integrating some visual based
       | machine learning algorithm to help automate coding. Actually I'm
       | quite surprised I haven't seen any project doing that. Github
       | copilot comes close but is text-based only. So no end-to-end
       | software design. For that you need GUIs and thus more visual-
       | based networks. Strype could be helping with that.
        
       | BeefySwain wrote:
       | Is this open-source? Couldn't find anything about that anywhere.
       | 
       | Would be awesome to integrate this with some other libraries made
       | for beginners.
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | I didn't realize the "Scratch" interface was called "frame based
       | editing" [1]. Interesting.
       | 
       | My experience with novice programmers is that they have the most
       | problems with code syntax and formatting. The fact that one
       | misplaced comma or semicolon can prevent the whole program from
       | running is incredibly frustrating and for many, is a significant
       | obstacle that prevents further progress. I've seen with my own
       | eyes, 10 year olds break down crying in frustration over a
       | missing semicolon.
       | 
       | But I think it's too early to "standardize" on this particular
       | solution to the problem just yet. I feel we need a few more
       | iterations before it is fully baked.
       | 
       | Millions of people around the world code every day at all levels
       | of ability. When a better development system is devised, it'll
       | just naturally take over and we'll see it everywhere. This isn't
       | it yet.
       | 
       | 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame-based_editor
        
         | carlosperate wrote:
         | Generally Scratch-like languages can be referred to as "visual"
         | programming languages, or "block based" languages. "Frame based
         | editors" would be this new combined approach.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_programming_language
        
       | munro wrote:
       | This looks really great, people have been exploring AST editors
       | but I feel like this "frame" concept strikes a balanced between
       | the structure an AST editor provides, and the need for free form
       | text editing our normal text editors provide--I'm really
       | interested to see how this feels in practic.
        
       | qbasic_forever wrote:
       | This would be cool to have a version that creates bash scripts.
       | Most scripts are simple logical things like:
       | 
       | - run this tool, send its output to that tool
       | 
       | - if that fails then stop and show an error
       | 
       | - etc.
        
       | toyg wrote:
       | Very interesting, will try with the kids.
       | 
       | Bad naming though.
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-15 23:01 UTC)