[HN Gopher] Show HN: Calenday, real-time collaborative calendars...
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       Show HN: Calenday, real-time collaborative calendars for trip
       planning
        
       Author : jaflo
       Score  : 149 points
       Date   : 2022-03-18 15:52 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (calenday.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (calenday.co)
        
       | azinman2 wrote:
       | My 2 cents:
       | 
       | It's really hard to get consumers to switch behaviors for
       | something they already can do through other means. Perhaps this
       | is more efficient in some respect, but only if you ignore the
       | inefficiency of changing your ways to learn a new tool, and
       | further separate it from your existing communications medium (ie
       | text messaging or whatever). I don't feel like the value
       | proposition is super high here.
       | 
       | In general people only tend to use 7 apps, and to create
       | something for a rare activity will be very hard to keep in mind
       | when you go to do it. So capturing the moment when people need to
       | do it with when they find out about you is difficult to time...
       | and that's if you can convince them to try something new at all.
       | 
       | If you're going consumer specifically for trip planning, I'd
       | focus more on specific pain points versus "nice to haves". It's
       | not clear from the website that pain points are considered. It
       | also feels very structured, eg that you know how long you'd stop
       | at a given place. In practice I don't think many people operate
       | that way, especially for a vacation unless they have
       | reservations.
       | 
       | I'd suggest finding a niche with clear pain points that this
       | solves, and then focus on that demographic. That may likely not
       | include consumers.
       | 
       | Good luck, it's really hard to make something new, put yourself
       | out there, and know whether to stick with it or not. I've been
       | down this road before. If you don't try, it really won't work!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | noirbot wrote:
         | I think I mostly agree with you, but I definitely have a set of
         | apps that I install for only trips.
         | 
         | I had a trip back in November with 6 people in total, and
         | plenty of sub-groups going off to do stuff, along with full-
         | group reservations with fixed times. It would have been helpful
         | to have something like this instead of having to search a text
         | thread repeatedly to work out when dinner reservations are and
         | on which days.
         | 
         | One specific idea - There's apps like this where if I could pay
         | a sort of "rental" fee to create a calendar for one event
         | instead of a full time subscription, that would be great. I
         | don't do big group trips that need something like this all the
         | time, but I'd maybe pay $10 or such for access for 2 months for
         | 4-8 people.
         | 
         | One really important feature for me would be some good time-
         | zone support as well, both for trips that may span different
         | time zones, and for converting from local to remote trip times.
        
           | azinman2 wrote:
           | Why not just use google calendar? You can invite people to
           | events, so it doesn't need to be a shared calendar.
        
           | heyitsguay wrote:
           | Just use your favorite online spreadsheet - for group trips
           | with more than about 3 people, I've been using Google Sheets
           | for trip planning for years. It's easy, effective, and free.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | jaflo wrote:
         | I definitely agree that it is difficult to make users switch if
         | there isn't enough of a value add. I was hoping for features
         | like the suggestions and voting to give enough of a reason to
         | switch, but admit that it might not be enough.
         | 
         | I really appreciate your comment about finding a niche and
         | fixing pain points there. Certainly a less clear path, but more
         | fruitful too as you mentioned.
         | 
         | Good points, thank you for taking the time to put this
         | together!
        
       | SmellTheGlove wrote:
       | Wow I was about to start developing something similar for my own
       | needs. I'll give this a try instead!
        
       | haolez wrote:
       | Slightly related, but I remember seeing in the past an
       | app/startup that offered a tool to manage the entire companies'
       | calendar, where it tried to optimize everyone's agenda by
       | rescheduling as many meetings as possible close to each other, so
       | everyone would have a lot of continuous free time to focus on
       | more demanding tasks.
       | 
       | But I can't find it again no matter how hard I look! Has anyone
       | here seen anything like this? I hope they are still around :(
        
         | tedmiston wrote:
         | There are so so many calendar scheduling optimization apps
         | these days.
         | 
         | Motion and Calendly are the ones I hear about most.
        
           | haolez wrote:
           | Thanks! Motion seems to be exactly what I was looking for.
        
         | darkgreene wrote:
         | https://www.getclockwise.com/ ? That's what our team is using
         | for this problem and it seems to work relatively well
        
       | eddyg wrote:
       | I'm curious what benefits you see something like this offering
       | over a more "full-fledged" collaborative trip-planning solution
       | like https://wanderlog.com/? The benefits of a full-featured
       | travel-planner outweigh a calendar, especially when it does
       | things like automatically calculate the driving time between
       | stops. Other travel partners can "like" things, create new
       | "lists" for whatever ("possible hotels", "restaurants",
       | "attractions", etc.) and then drag them down to specific days.
       | And you can "share a link" to the trip for others to just _view_
       | , or invite others to collaborate...
        
       | pkulak wrote:
       | Nice! Using it now for a trip I'm leaving on in a few hours. :D
       | 
       | It would be nice to share a link that folks can suggest, without
       | signing up. Kinda hard to get a bunch of people to make accounts
       | on something last minute, and I'd be okay being the one who slots
       | suggestions into times and does general management.
       | 
       | EDIT: Adding events is a bit painful. I've been conditioned to
       | click on a calendar where I want the event, then fill in details.
       | Running through every field of a date time in order (day, hour,
       | am/pm, etc) for start and end is a lot of friction.
        
         | jaflo wrote:
         | Thank you! This is really nice to hear! And good idea as well,
         | I will look into adding an open suggestion mode.
         | 
         | I should surface this better, but you can click and drag on the
         | calendar or drag the event button to the calendar to quick add!
        
           | pkulak wrote:
           | Oh wow, I just tried Google Calendar, and that's exactly how
           | you do it there also. Looks like I missed the memo on the
           | standard way to interact with calendar apps. I mean, if
           | Google has never communicated that to me, should you be
           | required to? Tough call...
           | 
           | EDIT: Fastmail too. lol.
        
       | abdullahkhalids wrote:
       | I am a professor. What I want is for students to quickly and
       | efficiently book 15 meeting slots with me during pre-defined
       | times and they should appear in my calender.
       | 
       | My university uses the Office365 suite, and I don't think the
       | above is possible. Either I share my entire Busy/Free calender
       | with them, and specify acceptable times in some other way. Or do
       | a back and forth with them via email.
        
         | qazxcvbnmlp wrote:
         | Calendly does exactly that.
        
       | robertlagrant wrote:
       | Aaah I wanted to make something like this! Good to see someone
       | actually do it.
        
       | mcint wrote:
       | Thank you for building this. I have been meaning to, for a few
       | years.
       | 
       | I would suggest that, like when2meet, this should support
       | coordination without every person having signed up. Perhaps
       | require 1 person to have an account to host a day's coordination,
       | but allow coordinators lower friction to use that day without
       | signup. Allow account signup to be a convenient upgrade, rather
       | than a minimum required. I support I wish there were view-urls
       | and edit-urls.
       | 
       | I appreciate that you don't hint at marketing emails permission,
       | nor have early signs of turning this into a business like ToS or
       | Privacy Policy. It would however be comforting, clarifying, to
       | share about the person or entity developing and hosting this.
        
       | alexk307 wrote:
       | I would definitely use this, but Google Cal has most of these
       | features, except the voting part. I can already collaborate on a
       | shared cal with my friends or colleagues that sync directly to my
       | devices (e.g. details, times, links, tickets, locations, etc.).
       | What differentiates you from existing calendar apps that would
       | pull users away from the Google/Apple ecosystem?
        
         | jaflo wrote:
         | I also use Google Calendar, but in my experience sync between
         | calendars across users is slow unless you send out invites for
         | each event (instead of sharing a calendar). Calenday is
         | supposed to be a real-time solution (updates happen near-
         | instantly). It also allows you to add the plan to external
         | calendar apps, but with a delay (imposed by the external
         | service).
         | 
         | I hope for Calenday to implement features specifically for trip
         | planning (although I am also trying to find other
         | applications). Ideas I were considering are adding location-
         | aware functionality like figuring out travel time and such.
        
       | gxs wrote:
       | Honestly, the best I've found for planning trips is creating a
       | custom google maps with all your personal points of interests
       | along with notes, etc.
       | 
       | Then planning becomes trivial - hey let's hit up spots a, b, and
       | c.
       | 
       | Everyone knows what those are, where they are, notes on them, and
       | everyone is sure they are going to the same address.
       | 
       | This app is cool but I imagine it appeals to a certain kind of
       | traveler more than broadly appealing to anyone taking a trip.
       | 
       | My two cents.
        
       | siscia wrote:
       | I like it!
       | 
       | However, I would like an interface a more long term and with
       | fewer details.
       | 
       | Like I am planning the next summer with my SO, and I would like
       | to know which day each of us is in which continent. So the
       | interface should show me days, not hours.
       | 
       | I am not sure I was able to explain
        
         | SamBam wrote:
         | Sounds like there should also be a fuzzy "sometime in late
         | August"-type scheduling.
         | 
         | A way to pencil in events and sketch out a vacation.
        
       | culpable_pickle wrote:
       | As a trip-it free tier user, it's not clear to me why this is a
       | better choice. Is the value add purely the voting?
        
         | jaflo wrote:
         | I haven't used it myself, but it looks like the goals are
         | different. TripIt is meant for trip planning for a single
         | person and organizing travel and stay mainly. Calenday is meant
         | for cross-user collaboration of trips and getting consensus on
         | activities between multiple people.
        
           | sbecker wrote:
           | I use TripIt for multi-person travel itineraries. It does
           | allow for sharing and multiple contributors. It is not
           | necessarily for getting consensus on activities, but for
           | centralizing all of your confirmed plans in one place.
        
       | u2077 wrote:
       | Looks great!
       | 
       | Are there any resources in particular that helped you along the
       | way, and may be worth sharing?
       | 
       | (Specifically for integrating auth and calendar events)
       | 
       | I am building something for personal use to manage calendar,
       | todos, and time tracking
        
         | jaflo wrote:
         | Thank you!
         | 
         | I had personally not used stores a lot before, but realized how
         | powerful they were in the project. I would try to abstract away
         | as much as possible of the Firebase stuff and having your
         | components talk to the store as data source. This makes it a
         | lot easier for real-time stuff to work right (but also auth,
         | you want to make sure to update state across the page once
         | users log in or out).
        
       | tylermenezes wrote:
       | This looks like a wonderful tool, but I would be hesitant to use
       | it solely because I'm sure Calendly's IP lawyers will try to shut
       | you down for the name. (It's similar enough that I mistook the HN
       | post for Calendly several times.)
        
         | samspenc wrote:
         | +1 as a heavy Calendly user (with plenty of friends who also
         | use Calendly), I initially mistook this for a post promoting
         | Calendly.
        
       | wpietri wrote:
       | This is interesting, but for me the barrier to entry is too high
       | for me to try it out absent an urgent need.
       | 
       | Right now I'm thinking about visiting family sometime this summer
       | and want to figure out the best time, so some sort of joint
       | calendar might be good. But I can solve this problem adequately
       | the usual way. I read through the front page and thought, "Oh,
       | maybe!" But then I got to "Sign up or log in" and that was enough
       | of a barrier that I closed the window.
       | 
       | The way to get me to take the next step would be to let me try
       | the product anonymously, with just a unique link. Maybe a link
       | that I can forward, as with Google Docs, to anybody I want to be
       | involved. If I find it useful, then I'd be much more willing to
       | jump through signup and account-linking hoops.
        
       | pcj-github wrote:
       | Reminded of https://www.phocuswire.com/Why-you-should-never-
       | consider-a-t...
        
       | gwoplock wrote:
       | This came just in time. So far I'm super happy with it.
       | 
       | One feature I think would be cool to have would be a check
       | in/check out time for the first and last day. Other than that I
       | really like it and will be super useful.
       | 
       | Good luck!
        
       | ivyirwin wrote:
       | Congrats on the launch. My company tried to tackle collaborative
       | trip planning too by doing a shared itinerary
       | (https://www.lunamoons.com). We went as far as collaborative
       | booking where people could split the charge at time of
       | reservation. It's a tricky space but would be happy chat about
       | lessons learned in the monetization space if you're interested.
       | Email is in profile, shoot me a note if you want to connect.
        
       | jaflo wrote:
       | Hi HN!
       | 
       | I built this website after having to recreate the same Google
       | Sheets template over and over for different trips. This is
       | basically Google Docs for calendars along with some other helpful
       | features like voting and categories for trip ideas.
       | 
       | The website itself was built using SvelteKit with Firebase for
       | the database and authentication, all hosted on Vercel.
       | 
       | Feel free to ask anything!
        
         | asleepawake wrote:
         | how did you manage real time collaboration in sveltekit? are
         | relying completely on firebase?
        
           | jaflo wrote:
           | Correct, yes, I subscribe to the Firebase Cloud Firestore
           | events and update a Svelte store whenever something changes.
           | This way I only need to set up the connections once and every
           | Svelte component can just subscribe to updates to the store.
           | 
           | Writing is more challenging, I haven't found a nice solution
           | so I resort to making calls with the Firebase SDK directly
           | (but those updates are then surfaced nicely again through the
           | store).
        
         | MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
         | Suggestion: the Share form should perform an invite. Instead it
         | tells me "This email address does not belong to a registered
         | user account". Makes recruiting your friends and family a bit
         | tougher!
        
         | elefanten wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing.
         | 
         | Very trivial feedback here: Calendly has gotten pretty
         | prominent and your app's name is so similar that I misread it
         | as Calendly (and wondered "why is Calendly doing Show HN and
         | what's this about trip planning?")
        
           | benatkin wrote:
           | That's a good move by OP. Too bad for Calendly. I can't think
           | of a reasonable argument that it's trademark infringement. A
           | portmanteau with _day_ is quite different from a -ly suffix.
           | Levenshtein distance is irrelevant.
        
             | doctor_eval wrote:
             | When the law is basically "shoot first and ask questions
             | later" - and it is - then semantic arguments don't matter.
             | If it seems similar, it is similar.
        
         | joenathanone wrote:
         | Plans for monetization?
        
         | wuschel wrote:
         | Hi,
         | 
         | great project, and looks very neat :)
         | 
         | I would be very curious to hear about any difficulties when
         | implementing actual collaborative editing. Did you have to go
         | into CRDTs and friends?
         | 
         | Cheers!
        
       | andrewshadura wrote:
       | I wish someone recreated Google Trips. Like TripIt, but with
       | better UX and more magic aurorecognition. Preferably self-hosted
       | and with IMAP or JMAP support, so I can give it a folder or a tag
       | to import trips from.
        
         | krat0sprakhar wrote:
         | 100% .. I love google trips but it can be improved by a lot.
         | I'm afraid of giving my email access to anybody else apart from
         | Google (only because they already have my mail). Ability to
         | collaborate and add other events etc on google trips would be
         | great.
        
           | andrewshadura wrote:
           | Well, Google Trips doesn't exist as an app anymore. What's
           | left is a much less functional web app and a trip section in
           | Google Maps.
        
       | pupppet wrote:
       | I like the idea but the Calendly suits may have something to say
       | about your name.
        
       | antidnan wrote:
       | Neat!
       | 
       | A collaborative itinerary seems really useful.
       | 
       | Any plans to add or design features around coordinating flights
       | for these types of trips? In my experience this tends to be the
       | hardest thing to keep track of collaboratively. I've actually
       | also seen friends using spreadsheets to track flights. It could
       | be cool to add a feature that shows when everyone is landing or
       | leaving.
        
         | jaflo wrote:
         | That's a really cool idea! A friend mentioned something
         | similar. I will look into that, I think the UX might be hard to
         | nail down.
         | 
         | I am not sure on how to best indicate it, but it might be
         | interesting to show availability of each person as a shaded
         | background. Darker shade would mean more people present. I will
         | put it on my backlog, thank you!
        
           | ehaughee wrote:
           | A couple ideas come to mind solving slightly different
           | problems
           | 
           | 1. Flight discovery
           | 
           | It would be interesting to propose a date and (optional)
           | arrival time and location and have the service look up like
           | the top 5 cheapest flights or something and link to a
           | purchasing site (affiliate link kickbacks might be a viable
           | way to generate revenue here but I have effectively zero
           | context/experience here).
           | 
           | The rest of the user story/flow (aka what happens when
           | someone chooses to purchase a flight from the list) is
           | interesting here but simpler is probably better (e.g. just
           | have them follow the flow in point 2 below) unless there's
           | some simple way for Calenday to know which flight you bought
           | and surface that to collaborators.
           | 
           | 2. Flight coordination
           | 
           | It would be nice if the trip "vanguard" or leader could put
           | in their flight details and have that shown with some rich
           | information from some flight tracker API. Might be able to
           | simplify the flight details input portion with some kind of
           | flight tracker API (e.g. Airline, flight number, date and
           | then it would pull the departure/boarding times, terminals,
           | gates, or whatever is available).
           | 
           | Going a bit more democractic, and maybe what you were talking
           | about with showing availability, if people buy different
           | flights from one another (e.g. coming from diverse origins,
           | or differing availabilities or price sensitivities), having
           | an easy way to see when each collaborator/co-traveler will
           | land in the given destination would be very useful/cool.
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | This could be super profile for all sorts of event planning. Do
       | you plan on expanding beyond offering this for solely for trip
       | planning?
        
         | jaflo wrote:
         | I kept the website purposefully vague to just mention "planning
         | together" in general. I was thinking this might be helpful to
         | plan corporate events, but haven't really thought of many other
         | use cases.
         | 
         | Do you have any in mind? Definitely interested to hear of any
         | ideas!
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | Drop an email in your HN profile, I'll reach out shortly.
        
             | jaflo wrote:
             | Just added it, looking forward to hearing from you!
        
       | pondemic wrote:
       | I rarely log into HN, but I just wanted to say thank you so much
       | for building this. I was looking for something just like it a few
       | months ago to plan a trip with some friends that I also wanted to
       | view-only share with a couple others (with a simple link - no
       | account requirements). I was amazed how hard it was to find
       | something like it and how you couldn't really do that with Google
       | Calendar. Don't remember exactly what the issue was with other
       | sites I found, but just know I will ABSOLUTELY be using Calenday
       | for all of my collaborative trip planning needs going forward. If
       | you add any other features I can't wait to see them (and if you
       | leave the site as is, I might be even happier in the long run).
       | 
       | Best of luck!
        
         | jaflo wrote:
         | Thank you for the kind words! I was thinking the same thing, I
         | didn't really find a good solution for group trips and also
         | wanted something where I can send a link after the trip to
         | friends that wanted to go to the same place. If you recall the
         | issues with the other sites, do let me know! I am interested to
         | hear.
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-18 23:00 UTC)