[HN Gopher] Steam to Chrome OS
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       Steam to Chrome OS
        
       Author : LopRabbit
       Score  : 90 points
       Date   : 2022-03-20 20:16 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (support.google.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (support.google.com)
        
       | pa7ch wrote:
       | My ideal dev machine would be chromeOS running on apple silicon.
        
         | Yoric wrote:
         | Really? I have considered a chromeOS machine from afar, but I
         | wasn't aware that it had reached a stage where it could become
         | a good dev machine.
         | 
         | What's the coding workflow like on chromeOS?
        
           | ehsankia wrote:
           | If you have a remote box, probably just remote SSH + web IDE
           | (potentially running on your remote box). For full local,
           | you'd do it through the Crostini layer, which is basically
           | Debian.
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | How many Steam games actually run on Chromebooks? Let alone on
       | Linux in general.
        
         | dadoprso wrote:
         | You can stream steam games to any device with the steam binary
         | installed.
        
         | m0ngr31 wrote:
         | https://www.protondb.com
         | 
         | Quite a lot actually. Obviously you won't be playing AAA games
         | on a Chromebook, but I think most would run lots of older games
         | well enough
        
       | mdoms wrote:
       | You'd think they would want to double- and triple-down on their
       | cloud gaming platform, Stadia, for Chromebooks. But there's also
       | good reason to believe that platform won't be going the distance
       | so perhaps this is another signal in that direction.
        
         | ehsankia wrote:
         | Why not both. Stadia on Chromebook is great, but more option
         | the better. They also have android games through play store.
        
       | shmerl wrote:
       | I'd just stick to gaming on regular Linux.
       | 
       | But I suppose it can be useful for arguing that Linux gaming
       | market is expanding, so developers who like to excuse lack of
       | Linux releases with market size will have less excuses now.
        
         | JamesMcMinn wrote:
         | At this stage, native Linux releases are becoming less and less
         | likely because of Value's efforts to improve gaming on Linux,
         | as paradoxical as that seems. Proton is getting better and
         | better with each release, and in many cases, is providing
         | better performance than running native code on Windows.
         | 
         | Why bother with official Linux support when you can just check
         | that your game runs via Proton and push the burden of support
         | onto Valve and the Proton community?
        
           | modeless wrote:
           | If Proton just becomes the "game runtime" for Linux, that's
           | OK! It's still open source. There may come a time when Proton
           | compatibility becomes as important or even more important
           | than Windows compatibility for game developers. Not only
           | might game developers start explicitly supporting Proton,
           | they could even contribute fixes upstream, unlike with
           | Windows.
           | 
           | Ultimately if it becomes popular enough, Proton could execute
           | the embrace, extend, extinguish strategy on Windows itself.
           | We'll know it succeeded if one day Microsoft gives up NT
           | kernel development in favor of shipping Linux/Proton, just
           | the way they ultimately gave up on Trident and started
           | shipping Blink/Chromium. Today Windows is a relatively small
           | and shrinking percentage of Microsoft's revenue so maybe it's
           | not out of the question in a decade or two.
        
             | 1_player wrote:
             | I'd argue that Proton is better than native Linux support
             | in the long term, hear me out.
             | 
             | Linux userspace API has no promise of long term
             | compatibility, and in fact there's a lot of churn,
             | especially nowadays as we approach the Year of the Linux
             | Desktop and technologies come and go as they're improved.
             | 
             | The Windows API instead is known for its long term
             | compatibility. Microsoft goes out of their way to ensure
             | applications keep running a decade later, and using that as
             | a base for gaming is a win-win, as developers can target
             | two operating systems with one API, and gamers have more
             | guarantees their game will still be playable on Ubuntu 2030
             | edition.
             | 
             | The last few times I played native Linux games I had to
             | fish for old and unsupported libssl and libjpeg libraries
             | that my distribution doesn't ship anymore. I can blame the
             | port, but nowadays I just try the Proton version first.
        
               | shmerl wrote:
               | It's not about Windows long term support, it's about Wine
               | long term support (which is much better than Windows
               | own).
               | 
               | So I agree with your point that long term Wine offers
               | better support than Linux native ABIs.
               | 
               | I doubt Windows ABIs are better than Linux native ones on
               | their own long term wise (i.e. without Wine).
               | 
               | That said, it would be cool for someone to develop Wine-
               | like wrapping of historic Linux ABIs into modern ones so
               | you could have the same preservation effect.
               | 
               | There was for example such project for older SDL over new
               | one.
        
           | qudat wrote:
           | I've seen game devs advertise that their game works natively
           | on Linux and is seen as a positive. My guess is if steam deck
           | takes off there will be more games trying to build natively
           | on Linux.
        
             | shmerl wrote:
             | Besides, supporting a game means more than making a Windows
             | build and expecting it to "just work" through Wine /
             | Proton. Proper support requires some effort, even if it's
             | translated. So they can as well support a native release if
             | they even care about support.
        
           | shmerl wrote:
           | I don't see why it has to become less likely for those who
           | care about performance (which major games usually do).
           | Translating DX12 or DX11 into Vulkan has performance
           | overhead, even if you manage to run the game better than on
           | Windows itself (for example Cyberpunk 2077 performs on Linux
           | better than on Windows now). But native releases can perform
           | even better.
           | 
           | And it's probably not always the case that Windows games
           | perform better on Linux through translation than on Windows.
           | 
           | Besides, Wine has to play constant catch up to all kind of
           | NIH stuff that MS will produce. Direct storage is the new one
           | that doesn't have any translation implementation yet. So
           | value of native releases won't disappear.
        
             | jhasse wrote:
             | > for example Cyberpunk 2077 performs on Linux better than
             | on Windows now
             | 
             | Do you have a link? Everything I found suggest that it's
             | the other way around, but Linux comes close.
        
               | shmerl wrote:
               | *
               | https://twitter.com/killyourfm/status/1502338832053776385
               | 
               | * https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/linux-graphics-x-
               | org-d...
               | 
               | * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo1khMYMO5c
               | 
               | The above is for AMD. And I saw people with Nvidia
               | reporting it performing better on Linux as well.
        
       | jokowueu wrote:
       | Since they didn't mention it I'm guessing x86 only chrome books ?
        
         | carlhjerpe wrote:
         | Anything else would be highly unlikely.
        
           | encryptluks2 wrote:
           | I imagine they could pressure manufacturers into building
           | some kind of virtual translation layer with accelerated
           | graphics.
        
         | DiabloD3 wrote:
         | AFIACT, it's a "no but yes" sort of answer. Linux games are
         | free to build binaries for any architecture they wish, but any
         | game relying on Proton because it's a Windows binary will
         | require x86.
         | 
         | Good news is, any of us in here are going to buy whatever we
         | want and aren't limited to Chromebooks. Its everyone else that
         | is screwed by the virtual duopoly of Windows and !Windows.
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | That's not entirely clear to me. Windows on Arm has some
           | weird sort of compatibility layer that could also exist here.
           | It's a different environment but I'm able to run (some) x86
           | windows programs on an Arm Windows virtual machine,
           | unmodified, under Parallels on an M1 MacBook. Boggles my mind
           | how it all works together, but it does.
        
             | risho wrote:
             | there are projects like fex and box86/box64 that are trying
             | to do for linux what windows is doing and what rosetta 2 is
             | doing.
        
         | dEnigma wrote:
         | Seems like it, at least for now
         | 
         | https://www.aboutchromebooks.com/news/steam-gaming-on-chrome...
        
       | lima wrote:
       | Crostini's (crosvm) virgl is fast enough for gaming? Neat.
        
       | torginus wrote:
       | Wait - does this mean that if Steam ships on Chromebook, and
       | Steam can be made to run arbitrary software via proton, that
       | Chromebooks have become regular laptops?
        
         | em3rgent0rdr wrote:
         | To be clear, chromebooks have for a few years been able to be
         | regular labtops since crouton [1] allowed installing linux
         | distros on them. (And could even use wine to run windows games
         | on the x86 chromebooks.)
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton
        
         | cl3misch wrote:
         | Not sure if this is a joke, but you can already "officially"
         | install a Debian environment from within ChromeOS.
         | 
         | https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en
        
           | mistrial9 wrote:
           | hey interesting - new to me.. (checks models) yep, the
           | Chromebook on the desk is one of "the ones that have Linux"
           | ..
           | 
           | "Camera not supported yet" .. feature!
        
           | ehsankia wrote:
           | Indeed, this is just a more convenient and user friendly
           | support layer than installing stuff through Crostini.
        
       | pengaru wrote:
       | Wake me up when Steam supports ARM builds.
        
       | DatDay wrote:
       | This is big
        
       | jordanmoconnor wrote:
       | Neat - but who's gaming on a Chromebook?
        
         | pja wrote:
         | Steam streaming will probably work?
        
           | jordanmoconnor wrote:
           | Ah, didn't know that was a thing. Not unlike Stadia?
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | It's streaming from one of your own computers, not one
             | owned by Valve.
        
         | zucker42 wrote:
         | Probably the millions of people who own/have access to one and
         | don't have the ability to buy another computer.
        
           | jordanmoconnor wrote:
           | I guess I was initially thinking more resource intensive
           | games, but there are lots of smaller games that a Chromebook
           | could handle.
        
           | GeckoEidechse wrote:
           | While this was not stated in the linked post, other sources
           | said it will be limited to x86 chromebooks that run 11th+ gen
           | Intel CPUs or equivalent.
           | 
           | That basically limits it to models that cost >800$ making it
           | a very niche product.
        
           | judge2020 wrote:
           | Probably not since it requires an 11th gen i5 or better
           | chrome book https://www.androidcentral.com/steam-for-chrome-
           | os-supported...
        
             | glenstein wrote:
             | This is whats frustrating to me. We're talking a small
             | slice of most chromebooks out there.
             | 
             | I actually have used old chromebooks with crouton to
             | install steam and play games. You have to pick
             | "lightweight" games like Baldurs Gate, but it still opens
             | up a lot of possibility.
             | 
             | So I had hoped maybe something could be brought to old
             | hardware, but I guess not.
        
         | someperson wrote:
         | When travelling, I have used GeForce Now to play Fortnite on an
         | a pretty weak ARM Chromebook from a web browser.
         | 
         | I was able to turn up the graphical settings up much higher
         | than what my regular desktop's ageing GTX 970 graphics card can
         | get, while still maintaining a high frame rate.
         | 
         | Latency is low enough to have fun and contribute to the team.
         | Wasn't a good experience over cellular, but it was very good on
         | a wired connection.
         | 
         | I was very happy to have had a streaming option available at
         | the time.
        
         | donatj wrote:
         | You'd be surprised the saturation in the 12-18 year old market.
         | So many parents bought their kids chrome books.
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-20 23:00 UTC)