[HN Gopher] The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads ___________________________________________________________________ The Pied Piper of Psychedelic Toads Author : mitchbob Score : 25 points Date : 2022-03-21 13:41 UTC (1 days ago) (HTM) web link (www.newyorker.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.newyorker.com) | pmoriarty wrote: | See "Open Letter Concerning Abuses by Octavio Rettig and Gerry | Sandoval": | | https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86872 | jamal-kumar wrote: | Thanks for posting this as the new yorker article kinda just | scratche on it, which is a real shame considering these people | have left death in their wake. Absolutely garbage journalism to | somehow omit that there's murder arrest warrants out for them. | There are so many psychologically manipulative, abusive people | working in these spaces. Literally these people are just | profiteering crackheads who got into making money on giving | waaaaaay too powerful psychedelics to innocent people who don't | know any better. They need to be popped out like bad pimples. | | 5-meo-dmt is extremely powerful stuff and unlike DMT it can | cause you to end up in the hospital or dead. It's not something | to be trifled with. It made a friend of mine's mom really lose | her sense of what is even real anymore. I usually see these | sorts of negative results in people who are long-term abusing | hard drugs like stimulants or opiates over time, not like | immediately after a few sessions of a psychedelic. | mythrwy wrote: | I caught one of these toads once when I lived in Arizona. On a | golf course. They look kind of like big frogs. | | At the time I had no idea what it was (probably a good thing, I | was young and a bit adventurous). Just a toad. I let him go by | the water hazard. | twomoonsbysurf wrote: | I don't recommend it. | | It is incredibly intense-- even traumatic. And there is no | precise "dosing". | | Stay away from all drugs. Drugs do not lead to enlightenment. | They do not lead to some hidden knowledge. They throw your neuro- | chemicals out of balance-- potentially forever if you're | misfortunate. | | Hallucinogens can affect you forever, negatievely, and never | stop-- and there is no cure if they do, for example: | "Hallucinogen-persisting perception disorder (HPPD) is a long- | lasting and potentially permanent syndrome characterized by a | spontaneous recurrence of perceptual/visual disturbances". | | It is not worth the risk. You have only one brain-- don't tamper | with its health and safety. Again-- there's no hidden knowledge | there, no enlightenment. It's not worth it: put your focus on | something valuable, productive, and safe. | Zababa wrote: | > Drugs do not lead to enlightenment. They do not lead to some | hidden knowledge. | | This reminds me of something near the end of "Fear and Loathing | in Las Vegas": | | > We are all wired into a survival trip now. No more of the | speed that fueled the 60s. That was the fatal flaw in Tim | Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling "consciousness | expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook | realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took | him seriously. All those pathetically eager acid freaks who | thought they could buy peace and understanding for three bucks | a hit. But their loss and failure is ours too. What Leary took | down with him was the central illusion of a whole lifestyle | that he helped to create. A generation of permanent cripples, | failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic | fallacy of the acid culture: The desperate assumption that | somebody - or at least some force - is tending the light at the | end of the tunnel. | | My own experience is relatively tame. I'd say the worst part | was the difference between my expectations and reality. The | "hidden knowledge" you talk about and the "fallacy of the acid | culture" are a good illustration of that. But I wouldn't call | this life-altering or destroying. It's like going to a country | that you really want to go to, only to find out it's not what | you expected. I've seen many people that would rationalize this | by saying "the drugs showed you what you needed, that you need | to manage your expectations", but you can rationalize/anaylze | any situation in your life like that. I went to Chernobyl and | had a great time, so I should try to go out of my comfort zone | more often. I didn't do my best in school and regret it, so I | should try to work have to have less/no regrets. Everything has | meaning once you search for it. | systemsignal wrote: | Have you seen this study on how psilocybin substantially | reduced depression and anxiety in people with life threatening | cancer? | | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5367557/ | | Would love to know if you know anything else in the world that | can do that repeatably | burner556 wrote: | Drugs are actually tons of fun. I think in the long run all | drugs become detrimental (alc, caffeine, etc) but wow you can | have experiences you will never forget and they def-o change | the way you look at the world. | | I would recommend everybody I know to experiment with drugs. I | don't recommend becoming dependent on ANY drugs. | pmoriarty wrote: | It is a risk, but so is riding in a car, which can cause | irreparable brain damage or death if one is injured in a car | accident. Skiing, skydiving, and scuba diving carry similar | risks. Even crossing the street is risky. | | As adults we evaluate risks and make a decision as to whether | the benefits outweigh the risks. | | I don't think we can say a priori whether something is too | risky for someone without knowing the person and their | circumstances. Some people are really at the end of their rope | and desperate to try anything, and have already tried many | risky things (like antidepressants or other medication, each of | which carries their own risks and possibly severe side effects) | and will continue doing risky things without a fraction of the | potential benefits of psychedelics. | | There have been studies which show that psychedelics help | people, even to the point of "curing" some of them after a | single dose. The evidence so far shows enormous promise and far | more effectiveness than traditional antidepressants for severe- | treatment resistant depression. | | How can we tell people who are suffering, some of whom are | suicidal even, that they shouldn't try something which holds so | much promise? | | Yes, there are risks, and no guarantees. But steps can be taken | to maximize the chances of a positive experience... such as | doing it in a safe setting with a trusted, trained therapist or | guide, and spending a lot of time afterwards integrating the | experience with a therapist. | | Some other recommendations for enhancing safety: | | - lie in the recovery position[1], with the mouth facing | downward so fluid can drain | | - abstain from food and drink for at least 4 or 5 hours | beforehand | | - don't mix substances | | - thoroughly vet anyone you entrust your safety to, and stay | away from facilitators who mess with your body or mind during | the experience | | Also see the best practices guide of _The Conclave_ : [2] | | [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_position | | [2] - https://theconclave.info/ | braingenious wrote: | > Stay away from all drugs. Drugs do not lead to enlightenment. | They do not lead to some hidden knowledge. They throw your | neuro-chemicals out of balance-- potentially forever if you're | misfortunate. | | Counterpoint: I have done quite a lot of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT and | they were both fun and interesting substances. | | My advice is: Do _not_ stay away from drugs unless: a) that is | your personal preference, b) you have a specific medical issue | that precludes being able to experiment with something safely | or c) you are not curious enough to educate yourself thoroughly | about a substance before trying it out. | | HPPD is wildly exaggerated by almost exclusively people that | have a vested interest in policing other people's behavior and | values. Belief in the dangers of "the ability of any substance | to permanently change your brain in a negative and nonspecific | way" (a hilarious logically impossible supposition) almost | always follow up with "don't do drugs, instead do what I tell | you to do. Read my self help book or convert to my religion. My | values are the best values." | photochemsyn wrote: | All psychedelics are at least as safe as alcohol, if consumed | responsibly. We accept alcohol even though drinking too much at | one sitting can kill you and drunk people routinely smash their | cars into other cars, etc., so 'safety' is a relative concept. | Caution is clearly the best approach. | | However, the claim that 'hallucinogens can affect you forever, | negatively and never stop' is unsupported. These drugs share a | common receptor as the basis of their action, the 5-HTP | receptor, which is involved with sensory perception at some low | level in the brain. This can result in 'visions' or intensified | color perception or numerous other effects (synthesia, etc.) | Some people enjoy the experience, others do not. The most | important rule for the neophyte experimentalist to follow is | 'less is more'. | | Personally I found psychedelics immensely therapeutic and a | great aid to quitting alcohol, and also of great benefit to my | 3D-visualization skills. I'd also note that consumer culture | norms ('more is always better') can cause disasters when mixed | with psychedelics. | | However as I note in another comment, toads are a horrible | source of 5-MeO-DMT due to the fact that toads of this type | contain a variety of other toxins. | photochemsyn wrote: | The article briefly notes there are other sources of | 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, but it's very brief: | | > "Although the most concentrated source of 5-MeO-DMT is the | Sonoran Desert toad, the compound is also produced by some plant | species in Latin America, where it was traditionally used in | snuffs." | | The author fails to mention that these toads also contain an | additional spectrum of toxins: | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bufotenin#Toads | | The plant-based snuffs containing 5-MeO-DMT, 5-OH-DMT, etc. in | contrast are likely far safer, and have a very long history of | use, for example the Cebil seed, Anandenanthera colubrina, has | been used for thousands of years in the northwestern Argentine | region of Puna. That would be a far better source for any | therapeutic use than toads. | | All in all, not a very well researched article, and overly | sensationalist as well. | mitchbob wrote: | Archived: https://archive.ph/xYDlq | Alex3917 wrote: | 5-MeO was extremely well known in 2013. It had already been | featured multiple times on every psychedelic podcast, and there | were multiple books about it. This whole article seems vaguely | fake to me. | pmoriarty wrote: | I'd bet anything that the overwhelming majority of people in | the world have never heard of it, and don't listen to | psychedelic podcasts either. | thanatos519 wrote: | Highly recommended substance. | | See also https://erowid.org/columns/teafaerie/ ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-03-22 23:00 UTC)