[HN Gopher] Folding bicycle small enough to fit in hand luggage
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Folding bicycle small enough to fit in hand luggage
Author : bwindels
Score : 108 points
Date : 2022-03-22 21:39 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.kwigglebike.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.kwigglebike.com)
| [deleted]
| bambax wrote:
| It looks absolutely amazing, but calling it "affordable" at
| EUR1600+ is a stretch. You can find non-electric folding bikes
| for under EUR200 that are quite sturdy and dependable (although
| not that small when folded).
|
| A few months ago I bought a used folding bike for EUR100,
| equipped it with a motor and battery that cost less than EUR400,
| for use on train trips.
|
| Nothing feels better than getting out of a long-distance train
| trip, unfolding your bike and going about your way in a different
| city... No taxis, no complex public transport map to understand,
| nothing but freedom.
| teruakohatu wrote:
| I got a kick out of the banner at the top of the shop answering
| everyone's first concern which is "Why is the Kwiggle so
| affordable?"
|
| A clever way of answering the actual first question "why so
| expensive?"
| gorbypark wrote:
| Did you use a conversion kit? I have an older Dahon I'm
| thinking of converting. Any tips?
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| Useful for a very brief stay, but in general I'd much rather rent
| a full-sized bike.
| yupper32 wrote:
| I don't think I could ever get over the look of the small wheels.
|
| It seems like the fanny pack of bikes: pretty useful but you
| gotta look dorky if you want to use it.
|
| It's vain but I'd find it hard to believe I'm alone here.
| nikanj wrote:
| We are swiftly destroying the planet because people don't want
| to look goofy in a small car, and insist on an aircraft
| carrier-sized truck. And now the same attitudes go for bikes
| too?!
| Swizec wrote:
| My penny board fits in carry-on luggage, is allowed on
| airplanes, can be ridden inside airports, and looks cool as
| heck when you ride in the city. Plus it weighs like 3lbs and
| costs $100.
|
| But it's a little more work to ride than a bicycle
| hutzlibu wrote:
| Yeah, guilty of that feeling, too. I am used to MTBs, I think I
| just would feel ridiculus, like riding a childrens or a clown
| bike.
|
| But if I would live in a big city, I might get over that
| feeling, since it _does_ seem practical.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| How much smaller than the classic Brompton is this
| xchaotic wrote:
| I think the Brompton with their 16" is the lowest I'd want a
| grown adult human to ride. Even in urban areas, there's lots of
| uneven surfaces, speed bumps, pot holes, cobbles, you name it. So
| even 18" is a compromise - I live pretty rural and a 29" MTB with
| chunky tires and full suspension is as comfy as it gets, but also
| a must for rooty singletrack etc
| Someone wrote:
| FTA: effortlessly 25 km/h with the folding bike, without much
| pedaling
|
| 25 km/hour is fairly fast for a regular 'upright' bicycle, and
| certainly not obtained effortlessly. I don't see that being
| better for this bicycle with its small wheels.
| usrusr wrote:
| And this is even more upright, aerodynamics doesn't like to get
| cheated no layer the size of the wheels. 25 km/h is close to
| the speed (not quite there, but almost) where people on
| particularly upright bikes start folding down their upper body
| to strike a deal with aerodynamics if they need to go faster.
| caturopath wrote:
| I'm pretty skeptical about "effortlessly 25 km/h with the folding
| bike, without much pedaling". Other small-wheel folding bikes
| I've tried (of, I'm sure, much inferior quality) were not so
| efficient. Awesome if true.
| sendfoods wrote:
| they do have gears that help with that, I think. Can be seen in
| the promo videos from the side. Also, the riders are peddling
| very slow for the speed they are going.
| seltzered_ wrote:
| The question to ask is: how do you carry your hand luggage with
| the bike that fits in the hand luggage?
|
| Brompton can sorta solve this by having front and rear cargo
| carry (bias: I own an older Brompton and have travelled from
| seattle to california by train with it. see also knockoff
| versions of it like https://jcat.bike/ )
| laurieg wrote:
| I've spent a long time with folding bikes over the years. My
| advice: bite the bullet and buy a Brompton[1].
|
| Yes, Bromptons are expensive. But they ride like a bicycle, have
| gears, a stiff enough frame, luggage racks etc. There's very
| little compromise. The fastest I've done on mine is 45 kph and
| I've ridden 70km in a day. I carry it on and off buses and trains
| multiple times a day without issue.
|
| In the past I had an A-bike[2]. It's a fun and cute little design
| but the wheels are absolutely tiny and has no gears. You feel
| like you're riding a folding contraption rather than a bicycle.
| The build quality was rather plasticky too. I like the idea of an
| A-shape with telescoping tubes. It's quite an ingenious fold.
|
| I've also ridden (but not owned) a Pacific CarryMe[3]. The ride
| experience again suffers for the short wheels and no gears, but
| it could be useful for some. The fold still leaves you with quite
| a long package.
|
| I'd love to try the Kwiggle bike. I don't think the strange seat
| will cause as many problems as people think, but I suspect the
| overall ride experience to be a bit bouncy and flexy. Maybe it's
| worth it for the small fold.
|
| For a more out-there design I think the Halbrad/Half-Bike[4]
| could be quite nice but it never really got past the prototype
| stage. Under-seat steering is a bit of an adjustment too.
|
| [1] https://www.brompton.com/
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-bike
|
| [3] https://pacificcarryme.com/
|
| [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQIC138vmlE
| lisper wrote:
| > Bromptons are expensive
|
| Half the price of a Kwiggle [1]. Seems like a bargain to me.
|
| [1] Comparing apples to apples, the base Brompton is a 3-speed
| for 850 euros. The 3-speed Kwiggle is 1690.
| dn3500 wrote:
| I'll second that. My dad had a different English folding bike
| in the 1980s, got rid of it and got a Brompton that he kept for
| 30 years. I had a Dahon that was ok I guess but the Brompton
| was way better. The Dahon had lots of frame flex and the
| folding headset, folding pedal, and flimsy seat post never
| worked right.
| mypalmike wrote:
| Heh I learned about the Brompton from the quirky BBC show
| "W1A", where it was treated as a kind of strange status symbol.
| bambax wrote:
| Bromptons are fantastic but there are many folding bikes with
| gears for much much less money. Decathlon Oxylane 120 retails
| for EUR289, with taxes, for example. It's not a Brompton, but
| for 1/4 of the price it doesn't need to be.
| samwillis wrote:
| My understanding is that Brompton have a patent on their
| particular fold configuration and so no one can copy it. I'm
| very much of the opinion that that fold is the most compact
| while keeping your cycling position close to that of a normal
| bike. Every other compact folding bike is fighting for a design
| against that patent, and it can't be done. This looks to me
| like one of those designs, if the designers had been able to
| independently develop a fold without infringing Brompton they
| would have come up with something very similar to them, not
| this strange contraption.
|
| You can see the Brompton influence, one pivoting wheel and
| folding cross bar with a 45deg hinge. But they have had to
| compromise in order to not infringe the design resulting in a
| very odd seat design.
|
| I have spent many many hours trying to design a fold as good as
| Bromptons and haven't managed too, it's just too perfect.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| That patent was from 1979 so it must be long expired.
| samwillis wrote:
| Hmm, will have to dig into it and do some research as, if
| it is expired, why has no one copied the design?
|
| Edit:
|
| It seems to have been proven in court that they have
| copyright (rather than the old patent) of the design. A bit
| like the coke bottle design I suppose.
|
| https://www.farrer.co.uk/news-and-insights/brompton-puts-
| the...
| chews wrote:
| Buy a Tern (sp edit), better components on a Brompton frame
| 28304283409234 wrote:
| I got my brompton in 2006. Still bike it almost daily.
| pizza234 wrote:
| > In the past I had an A-bike[2]
|
| I've had an A-bike in the past as well, and while I like the
| idea in principle, it's essentially a scam, due to the
| extremely low-quality materials - some components in the
| transmission are made of plastic, and they're bound to break
| rather quickly (I think it took me just a few months, even with
| around 20 km/week).
| [deleted]
| codeulike wrote:
| The A-Bike was a project by Clive Sinclair (ZX Spectrum etc)
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-bike
|
| Had one for a bit, very small wheels, was kindof fun but in
| London its just easier to have a normal bike and arrange your
| commute so that you use it, rather than carry a small bike
| around.
|
| I also had a Strida, really nice design and a good balance
| between usefulness and foldyness
|
| https://www.strida.com/
| Gualdrapo wrote:
| For shorter rides the saddle thing can be no biggie, but on
| long distances your butt will curse at that thing. Saddles are
| more important than people would acknowledge.
| user568439 wrote:
| It was a difficult decision for me to spend 1.300 EUR in a
| Brompton, but I don't regret it a little bit. I have to admit I
| didn't use any alternative as a long term foldable bicycle, but
| after 3 years with the Brompton I don't have a single complain.
| Great quality, minimum weight, nice riding, fast un/folding.
| Everything you would expect from a portable bike.
|
| Regarding the cost, I'm quite sure I could sell mine for more
| than 800 EUR while any other alternative would lose at least
| 50% of the value and probably require more maintenance.
| someweirdperson wrote:
| I like my Beixo with shaft drive. A bit on the heavy side,
| but can carry it close without getting dirty.
| sparrc wrote:
| Seems like it's bordering on push-scooter levels of top speed and
| stability...what's the benefit of such a small bike compared to a
| scooter?
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| I used a push scooter in Munich in combination with buses and
| trains. It was fine for short distances of like ~1.5km or less,
| going to/from transit stations, but past that distance it just
| gets fucking annoying. Standing up on a push scooter and
| constant pushing with your feet just isn't as comfortable as
| sitting down and pedaling.
|
| Also, the non-inflated rubber wheels I had on the thing were
| very uncomfortable (and loud) on cobblestone-type roads. Almost
| infeasible to use, really. But otherwise it was a pretty
| convenient thing to have.
| sparrc wrote:
| Fair enough, but from the looks of that bike it doesn't
| really look like it'd be comfortable much more than a few
| kilometers either.
|
| There are push scooters with inflatable tires (I've seen them
| here in the US) but not sure how much that affects the weight
| and portability.
| joe_the_user wrote:
| I have no idea whether this bike is any good.
|
| However, the limit on how good a bike is are defined by
| materials and geometry together. With strong, tight and shock-
| absorbing enough materials, you could theoretically create a
| race-quality bike in a form-factor like this.
|
| When or if such things will appear is hard to say. The Bike
| Friday seems to be at the quality of a decent road bike but
| foldable into a suitcase (they've had the same basic design for
| twenty years so twenty years of materials improvement might
| create a pretty extraordinary thing).
|
| See: https://bikefriday.com/ (relative to other comments,
| slightly larger than Brompton but I think more of a bike that
| really can be your only bike).
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| I have a Bike Friday (and I even visited the factory in
| Eugene OR to pick it up, which was fun). There's a clear
| difference between it and a Brompton, slow-fold vs. quick,
| essentially. I have gone on great plane trips with my Friday,
| but it wouldn't be very practical for taking on public
| transit, and it doesn't fold up much without coming apart,
| and that takes tools and time.
| gibolt wrote:
| A scooter has very bad stability. Your weight is centered,
| whereas a bike distributes force wider through each foot.
| Larger tires can handle most surfaces, while a tiny pebble,
| crack, or wandering ghost could flip a scooter rider into the
| nearest car or old lady.
| ThinBold wrote:
| Scooter has an even smaller wheel and is more unstable during
| high speed. Also bike is more muscle-efficient.
| avasylev wrote:
| Overall it's questionable on muscle efficiency. The main
| problem with scooters/skateboards is that beginners don't
| learn using second leg (it feels unnatural and takes
| practice). Thus getting tired with pushing with one leg.
|
| Another thing at this form factor you can get electric
| skateboard, muscles are concern.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| I would switch between legs while using my push scooter,
| still not nearly as good as a bike.
| pizza234 wrote:
| I had a push scooter, and they're very dangerous.
|
| Wheels are small, board is short, and center of gravity is
| high. It just takes a small pothole covered with leaves (so,
| not even winter), and the driver will fly forward (I did).
|
| E-scooters are heavier, with larger wheels and longer boards,
| so they may be less accident-prone, but I've never tried one.
| twblalock wrote:
| One benefit is the ability to sit.
| avasylev wrote:
| I think more people are familiar with riding bycicle and thus
| it maybe easier for them to go longer distance. But yeah
| scooter would be smaller and lighter,even electric powered
| ones. Longboard would be even lighter. It takes some practice
| to start, but for city commute it's quite good and can't beat
| the portability.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| An electric scooter I'd expect to probably be heavier than a
| tiny portable bike like this, unless the range is really
| short.
|
| Longboards I think still have serious usability/safety issues
| compared to scooters and especially bikes.
| ahoy wrote:
| Folding bikes are really cool but the small wheels mean you
| really feel any unevenness it the road.
| emmelaich wrote:
| The front wheel needs to be bigger I think. Not for comfort but
| for safety.
|
| This makes me want to design one. Roughly, bigger front wheel,
| hard (no pneumatic) tyres. Suspension on the rear wheel; a low
| unsprung weight would make this effective.
|
| It reduces the use case to short distances, not commute rides.
| But that's ok if it's small enough folded to be taken on a
| train/bus/taxi.
| hinkley wrote:
| I gotta have bigger wheels.
|
| They've experimented from time to time with hubless wheels,
| which allow for a lot of flexibility in passing bits of the
| bike through the plane of the wheel when folded, but it's never
| clear how they deal with shock - potholes in particular.
|
| Spoked wheels have partial failure modes and those are
| important.
|
| I wonder too if at these small dimensions you still want to
| copy the Brompton model, where a flick of the elbow practically
| assembles or disassembles the bike. Would a design that
| requires both wheels to be removed and reattached be more
| workable? Though removing rear wheels can be complicated
| greatly by the drivetrain.
| UFOFlyer wrote:
| I think the niche of "personal vehicle that you can take on the
| metro" is better filled by PEVs. Shrinking down a bike's
| drivetrain size is harder and more expensive than just putting
| together a single wheel, some circuit boards, batteries, and an
| electric motor to make an electric unicycle.
|
| A big advantage EUCs have is you don't have to bother with
| folding like a bike, just hop off, grab the trolley handle and
| walk on.
|
| Electric scooters have similar advantages but they have to
| compromise range, performance, and compactness for their ease of
| learning.
| lps41 wrote:
| Montague makes various full sized folding bikes. I'm quite
| pleased with the Navigator, but they even make a folding mountain
| bike, the Paratrooper.
|
| When unfolded, you can't tell at all that they're folding bikes.
| [deleted]
| kgbcia wrote:
| I'm interested in folding bikes. This was is a great device if
| you can affords the price tag $1300+ there is also the a bike is
| going. http://a-bike.co.uk/product-category/bikes/
| mi100hael wrote:
| Intriguing design and it looks like they've sold enough to see
| some real-world success, but I can't help but think the headset
| must be under extreme torque with a 150+ lb person sitting on
| essentially a large lever.
|
| That and the small wheels don't inspire confidence dealing with
| the typical curbs & potholes that one is likely to encounter in
| an urban environment.
|
| What's the use-case for folding bikes like this? Is there a
| pervasive lack of bike racks in certain places that would
| necessitate stowing a bike in such small quarters?
| deltarholamda wrote:
| One use case is for cruisers (sail and power). Having some kind
| of go-machine to get from the marina to a real market is often
| preferred over taxis/rideshares due to cost. Some high-end
| marinas may have a car or something to borrow, but that's rare.
|
| What I've read from people who fall into this use case is the
| biggest requirement is a large wheel size. (This one wouldn't
| be great for that reason.) You'll want big wheels and fat tires
| to deal with, shall we say, less than optimal road conditions.
| The other main requirement is, of course, some kind of load
| carrier. Usually some sort of trailer, though several Dahons
| have a carrier. Dahons are the usual go-to brand.
| daleharvey wrote:
| From a British perspective it's quite often public transport,
| bikes are banned on the tube afaik and taking them on trains
| can be hit or miss, some routes require a specific (and hard to
| get) cycle booking, most local buses are a non starter and even
| intercity buses are a big problem (they will often require your
| bike be dissembled / be in a hard case bike bag thing).
|
| There are none of those nice bike racks on the front of
| American buses here. The whole system is fairly hostile towards
| active travel.
| bluescrn wrote:
| > The whole system is fairly hostile towards active travel.
|
| And even more hostile to PLEVs. Electric scooters still
| illegal (beyond a few set-up-up-to-fail rental trials), a
| 250W limit on eBikes, and no hope whatsoever of electric
| skateboards, OneWheels, and so on ever being legal on roads
| or pavements.
|
| Yet still people wage war on the car, without any attempt to
| make alternatives more viable.
|
| And despite the roads being at breaking point, the trains
| being overcrowded and ludicrously priced, and road
| safety/bike theft/weather deterring all but the most
| dedicated cyclists, somehow transport isn't even a
| significant political issue in the UK.
|
| (London-centric politics doesn't help. Many Londoners,
| particularly politicians, don't seem to have a clue about
| life beyond the M25)
| renw0rp wrote:
| The only thing I can come up with is last mile commute, but for
| that probably a bit larger foldable bike would do.
|
| Btw. In UK on certain routes or during rush hours you can only
| take a foldable bike onboard.
| gushie wrote:
| A use case is crowded rush hour trains where space for bikes is
| at a premium
| histriosum wrote:
| I've been looking at folding bikes like this.. in my case, I'm
| a private pilot, and I'm looking for ways to solve the last
| mile issue of getting from my destination airport to somewhere
| fun to go - ie a nearby beach, or into town for dinner, etc.
| Size and weight are important in my use case, since general
| aviation aircraft don't have alot of cargo space.
|
| This bike looks like it would be a decent fit, but I'm not sure
| I can convince myself to shell out 1500 bucks for it... So the
| search for a last mile solution continues :-)
| ledauphin wrote:
| hah - there are dozens of us! let me know when you find a
| solution...
| soared wrote:
| Similarly I like to get very cheap ($40-$70) round trip
| flights to random town and explore around. Unfortunately my
| uber from the airport to the town is usually more expensive
| than the flight. Most small towns don't have much in the way
| of airport buses.
| ideamotor wrote:
| Why not take an rideshare/taxi? It seems you'd be able to
| even optimally schedule the rides in advance. I wouldn't want
| to ride this thing on car-only roads.
| histriosum wrote:
| I live in Michigan, and especially since Covid, many of the
| small towns in this state have no taxi or rideshare
| options. Cadillac MI is one example - big enough town that
| there's some stuff to go do, but only a single taxicab and
| no rideshare. The single taxi is fairly unreliable. The
| saving grace at Cadillac is that the airport has a courtesy
| car you can arrange to borrow, but that's more and more
| rare.
|
| Ground transportation at a whole lot of the places I can
| fly to is just nonexistent or not at all reliable. I expect
| much of the rest of the country probably has similar
| issues..
| sbussard wrote:
| Isn't it a scooter that you pedal?
| grzes wrote:
| so i bought a folding bike from decathlon about 1.5yr ago and
| never been happier since. its following model:
|
| https://www.decathlon.fr/p/velo-pliant-oxylane-120/_/R-p-120...
|
| they actually went up in price since then. swapped stock wheels
| because they were rubbish and also bought better seatpost from
| upper model. removed all the unneccessary stuff like ringer or
| mudguards and this thing flies. im getting average speed about
| 18km/h on my rides and done about 4000km so far without any
| problems. this is perfect city bike in my opinion. if this thing
| had disc brakes it would be even better.
| jbverschoor wrote:
| What's so special about it? It looks like any other folding bike
| NKosmatos wrote:
| Nice one, base model with 1-speed costs 1340EUR (+50EUR shipping
| for EU) and rider can be up to 100kg.
| rmoriz wrote:
| 100kg is total weight. ~10kg is the bike alone, so 90kg is max
| for rider+luggage (backpack etc)
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(page generated 2022-03-22 23:00 UTC)