[HN Gopher] Pidgin: The Universal Chat Client
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Pidgin: The Universal Chat Client
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 200 points
       Date   : 2022-03-25 14:49 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pidgin.im)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pidgin.im)
        
       | sequoia wrote:
       | Q: What happened to Pidgin? A: Google & Facebook shut down their
       | XMPP gateways to force you into their apps. All the sudden you
       | can no longer use Pidgin to communicate with people on google &
       | facebook. At least that was my experience.
       | 
       | I used to use Pidgin with OTR[0] for e2e encrypted chat over
       | google & facebook. It was pretty fantastic, messages were
       | inaccessible to facebook and google even with a court order so I
       | didn't need to trust them.
       | 
       | Also used Finch for a bit[1]. For a time I had a pretty great
       | setup on a local VM (running the PHP app I was working on): one
       | tmux tab with work, another with a pane for finch (for chatting
       | on FB & google), a pane for IRC, and a third pane for ttytter[2],
       | the amazing twitter CLI. If someone nontechnical walked by they'd
       | see a terminal and it looked exactly like I was working, not
       | chatting on IRC & facebook, and looking at twitter :D
       | 
       | 0: https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/ 1:
       | https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/1-finch/ 2:
       | https://www.floodgap.com/software/ttytter/
        
         | paulryanrogers wrote:
         | Plus one for OTR. It was a bit awkward to do key exchange and
         | validation but otherwise great once set.
        
       | eimrine wrote:
       | I love Pidgin. If I want a secure chat between 2 I will forse my
       | buddy to go XMPP OTR
        
         | zaik wrote:
         | You should also checkout OMEMO which is based on the Signal
         | protocol and allows things like group chat and sending messages
         | to contacts who are offline.
        
           | eimrine wrote:
           | I have tried Matrix not on my wish but it has not worked.
           | Also I like Tox but it needs processor with hardware
           | cryptography and have not use it a long time.
        
             | zaik wrote:
             | OMEMO is an XMPP extension: https://omemo.top/
        
       | anthk wrote:
       | Bitlbee + libpurple has the best of both worlds.
        
       | tuckerpo wrote:
       | I used to work a little bit on Pidgin. A lot of the core
       | maintainers have moved on. I think it's just grim (Gary Kramlich)
       | at this point. It's very clean C if you're interested in
       | contributing to an open source project.
        
       | l72 wrote:
       | I use pidgin daily with the libpurple-slack connector. It isn't
       | super great for large rooms (I often keep Slack open in the
       | background but have no notifications enabled), but it is really
       | nice for direct messages, which is what mostly happens on slack
       | in my company. Pidgin integrates nicely into gnome-shell's
       | notifications, allowing me to quickly see messages and reply
       | without losing focus.
        
       | cbm-vic-20 wrote:
       | The lead maintainer of Pidgin (Gary Kramlich) frequently
       | livestreams his work on Twitch.
       | 
       | https://twitch.tv/rw_grim
        
       | arminiusreturns wrote:
       | Weechat is pidgin for terminal. Check it out also if you pull
       | together disparate systems.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | Though it's often derided on HN, scree-scraping is the
       | integration method that requires the list cooperation from the
       | other party. I'd love to have something like Pidgin that ran
       | stock copies of these messaging apps in their own virtual
       | machines and aggregated the data.
        
         | dybber wrote:
         | Not necessary, new EU regulation forces them to make their
         | messaging services interoperable:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30798850
        
           | inops wrote:
           | That will take years to be heeded, I'm sure. Even then, it's
           | possible some companies will provide that access only to
           | customers from the EU (given it removes the monopoly these
           | companies hold on their services).
        
           | phone8675309 wrote:
           | Forces them to make them interoperable in Europe. I'm sure
           | they'll drag their feet and then use some fuckery in the rest
           | of the world to avoid it.
        
       | pie_flavor wrote:
       | Is pidgin's Discord experience anything to write home about?
        
       | forty wrote:
       | Aaah I used it a long time ago, it was then called Gaim I
       | believe.
       | 
       | I also used the similarly named but jabber only Gajim.
       | 
       | Good times :)
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | nocman wrote:
         | Interesting, I did not remember that it was once called Gaim.
        
           | dmead wrote:
           | it was for sure called gaim. one of the only usable aim
           | clients that worked on linux in the 90s.
        
         | chipx86 wrote:
         | Indeed. Originally it was "GAIM" (due to the original purpose
         | being a GTK+ AOL Instant Messenger client), which AOL wasn't
         | thrilled about. We changed it to "Gaim", which I think they had
         | less of a problem with, or at least we had hoped they would.
         | 
         | Internally at least, we called it "Gaim's An Instant
         | Messenger". I'm not sure if we formalized that or not. It's
         | been too long.
         | 
         | And then to fully move away from that branding situation, it
         | was renamed to Pidgin. This was mid-2000s, after I moved away
         | from the project, so I don't have any insight into the name
         | change beyond the history.
         | 
         | Good times for sure!
        
           | khc wrote:
           | Hi chipx86! I remember "Gaim's An Instant Messenger" used to
           | be on the old website but either google or my memory is
           | failing me.
        
       | somethingsome wrote:
       | The plugin to connect Pidgin and Meta/Facebook messenger is
       | dying. I think Pidgin may lose a lot of users if this in not
       | solved.
       | 
       | If someone want to help them :
       | 
       | - https://github.com/dequis/purple-facebook/issues/526
       | 
       | - https://github.com/dequis/purple-facebook/issues/518
        
         | greatquux wrote:
         | yeah, i do hope someone can do this. unfortunately i cannot but
         | it is awesome.
        
       | 88840-8855 wrote:
       | I did pidgin and before that Trillian, Miranda and Disgby.
       | 
       | It would be great to see an integrated chat app.
       | 
       | For me Telegram is the king of today's UI, hence, it would be
       | amazing to see them integrating Skype (still using it) and
       | whatsapp. Line and wechat integration would also be super.
       | 
       | This new European law that is about being passed gives me hope.
        
       | mdasen wrote:
       | I really miss Adium (https://adium.im) which was based on
       | Pidgin's libpurple. Adium had such a great user experience. It
       | was built with native widgets and also incorporated chat themes
       | that were implemented using WebKit's rendering (https://www.adium
       | xtras.com/index.php?a=search&cat_id=5&sort=...). It was fast and
       | memory friendly given that it was a native app and the themes
       | were just small templates offering a different rendering style
       | (rather than the entire app being a huge JS/HTML/CSS React app).
       | 
       | There were add-ons for message styles, contact list styles, dock
       | icons, sounds, and more.
       | 
       | It's really sad that we've lost the ability to connect to so many
       | of the services we use with third party clients. Instead, I now
       | have FB Messenger, WhatsApp, iMessage, Discord, and Signal all
       | running and taking up space in my dock.
        
         | kitsunesoba wrote:
         | There also used to be plugins for iChat (which later became
         | Messages) that added support for MSN Messenger, making for a
         | no-fuss nicely streamlined chat experience across a decent
         | range of networks (AIM, XMPP/Gchat, Yahoo Messenger, and MSN
         | Messenger).
         | 
         | So between modded iChat and Adium, on Mac OS you had the choice
         | between minimal and kitchen-sink style IM clients, both of
         | which were free and had no ads. OS X had also hit peak
         | refinement around that time, between 10.2 and 10.6. It was a
         | brief but golden age for Mac users with a lot of IM friends.
        
           | fumar wrote:
           | How did I forget about iChat? That brings back memories. Mac
           | 10.4 to 10.6 was glorious. The walled gardens got higher and
           | less fun over the 2010's. Discord works but I am probably one
           | generation too old to appreciate the meme-heavy communication
           | style.
        
             | eddieroger wrote:
             | iChat had multi-party video calls and virtual backgrounds
             | in 2008. It blows my mind when Apple talks about multi-
             | party FaceTime calls like it's a new feature.
        
               | lopis wrote:
               | We had actual video phone calls in 2005, and with the
               | advent of Smartphones they were essentially deprecated.
               | Eventually, Smartphones became capable of making video
               | calls over the Internet with 3G
        
         | hans1729 wrote:
         | > Instead, I now have FB Messenger, WhatsApp, iMessage,
         | Discord, and Signal all running and taking up space in my dock.
         | 
         | Why don't you use a matrix client with bridges? I use telegram,
         | WhatsApp and signal over Element. The bridges are not as great
         | as the individual clients, but it's definitely miles ahead of
         | using five messaging apps.
        
           | phone8675309 wrote:
           | Honest question: when registering for those bridges is it
           | just as simple as putting in your username/password or do you
           | have to do other gyrations to make it work? Do you have to
           | upgrade continually to avoid the services playing whack-a-
           | mole with your bridges?
           | 
           | I ask because I'd like to set up Matrix bridges like that
           | locally, but if I have to create a Discord bot account or
           | fish out an API key then that's asking a bit much.
        
           | olah_1 wrote:
           | i think both Element matrix services and Beeper both offer
           | this as a service now
        
           | mdasen wrote:
           | Maybe I'll look into it more, but it feels messy and
           | complicated at first glance. Portal rooms, plumbed rooms,
           | bridgebot bridges, Bot-API bridges, puppeted bridges, double-
           | puppeted bridges, server-to-server briding, and sidecar
           | bridges. I haven't used it so some of this may be wrong and
           | I'm happy to accept corrections.
           | 
           | It seems like a puppeted bridge requires me to send the
           | messages to the Matrix server who then has a login to my FB
           | Messenger to read/write messages there. I'm not going to run
           | my own Matrix server so that requires me to trust a Matrix
           | server with access to my Facebook.
           | 
           | Yes, downloaded apps can be malware, but it's a lot more
           | easily discoverable. One can use tools like Wireshark to
           | confirm where data is going. If apps are open source, one can
           | see the source code and even compile one's self. Even if you
           | don't trust the maintainer who is compiling, you still have a
           | good idea that they're not sending all your messages to them
           | because someone is more likely to notice the binary doing
           | that (via tools like Wireshark). When software is just run on
           | a server that the public doesn't have access to, who knows
           | what is happening. Yes, running on your machine doesn't mean
           | everything is safe, but there's some level of inspection you
           | can do of what is going on.
           | 
           | I don't want to sound too down on Matrix, but it feels a bit
           | off to me. It feels like people who want a decentralized
           | future...where everyone is centralized into a small number of
           | servers who can run a dozen or so Docker containers and such.
           | Maybe that's the way the world needs to be given where we're
           | at, but I just miss having a client that could login to
           | multiple chat services.
           | 
           | If these puppeted bridges can exist, why can't my client just
           | puppet directly? Why send the message to the matrix server
           | for the matrix server to then call the Facebook API? I
           | remember the days of AIM breaking the OSCAR protocol and
           | libpurple/libgaim needing to catch up so I understand that
           | pushing out an update to client software might mean some
           | extra hiccups in the connectivity. Still, it feels like the
           | servers might not be able to update their software much
           | faster than I am able to. Maybe App Store approvals holding
           | up updates is the issue? Is the issue that app stores could
           | block a Matrix + bridges client since it's clearly trying to
           | access services that don't want third-party access, but a
           | Matrix client that's just talking to a Metrix server is fine
           | - and then the "infraction" is on a server that the App Store
           | doesn't get a say over? (I'm not saying that I think it
           | should be disallowed, but I could see companies disliking it)
           | 
           | Is the issue that people want to write these bridges in
           | JavaScript, Python, and other languages which are all fine if
           | you're running a bunch of Docker containers on a server, but
           | might not work so well if you're trying to create a desktop
           | or mobile app?
           | 
           | Why can Matrix bridge these things, but we can't have a
           | libpurple that works as well as these bridges? Or maybe I
           | just haven't used libpurple in a long time and it's actually
           | still good and I should re-try it.
           | 
           | It feels like Matrix wants to be a decentralizing force, but
           | then the bridges force me to centralize my messaging through
           | one of their servers. Again, maybe that's the way it needs to
           | be for reasons, but it just doesn't feel like what I've been
           | looking for.
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | You don't need to know most of those things to get started,
             | in general you can just follow the setup instructions for
             | the services you use.
             | 
             | You do need your own homeserver, but for me I run a
             | homeserver just for the bridges, and have my main account
             | on a third-party homeserver. This way at least my native
             | matrix chats (which are far more important to me) don't
             | depend on my home server being online.
             | 
             | I would subscribe to hosted bridges fairly quickly if they
             | were a reasonable price. Maybe $1/month per service?
             | Obviously there is risk here because you are trusting
             | someone with access to your account but to me it is
             | probably worth it. There is https://www.beeper.com/ but you
             | need to move your primary account to their service, which
             | is just too much disruption and lock-in for me.
             | 
             | TL;DR I agree, self-hosting is a bit much. I'd love to be
             | able to pay for it though.
             | 
             | I thought about hosting that service myself but I wouldn't
             | want to run a service that is both against the
             | dependencies' ToS and is playing cat-and-mouse with their
             | attempts to shake you off. Too much excitement for too
             | little reward.
        
             | danShumway wrote:
             | > Maybe that's the way the world needs to be given where
             | we're at, but I just miss having a client that could login
             | to multiple chat services.
             | 
             | I'd be very curious to know if the work on P2P Matrix
             | servers is going to include some level of support for
             | client-side bridges?
             | 
             | I know the P2P work and bridging aren't quite the same
             | thing, but it seems like the two are vaguely related: if
             | you've got a bridge running, I suspect that would have a
             | lot of the same concerns as running a Matrix server
             | locally. And I get that for some clients like iMessage,
             | your bridge has to be running on a Mac, but that isn't the
             | case for most other messaging platforms, is it?
        
           | iforgotpassword wrote:
           | I tried matrix bridged to IRC (libera) a while ago. It didn't
           | sync back to matrix properly when people on irc left the
           | channel, so you'd try to talk to someone on irc who wasn't
           | there anymore. One time, a person on irc couldn't see any
           | messages by any matrix users until they reconnected to the
           | Network. And IRC is an old, open, well understood protocol. I
           | just cannot imagine that a bridge to eg Whatsapp would result
           | in anything even remotely usable.
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | To be fair your first problem sounds like an impedance
             | mismatch more than anything else. Users come and go from
             | IRC all the time because connections are transient by
             | nature. It would probably be annoying to a lot of people if
             | they left the room every time they disconnected.
             | 
             | Matrix and WhatsApp are both durable with regards to users
             | so this issue probably isn't relevant.
             | 
             | Personally I find the biggest problem with puppeting is the
             | impedance mismatches. For example if reactions aren't
             | bridged it can be easy to miss stuff. This depends on the
             | bridge used.
        
         | Apocryphon wrote:
         | There's still third party clients. I use Ferdi, which is the
         | open-source equivalent to Franz and Rambox.
        
         | mattgreenrocks wrote:
         | The ironic thing is the protocols are now almost all dirt
         | simple but I perceive the risk of being C&D'd for making
         | alternative clients to not be worth the risk.
        
           | Kye wrote:
           | AOL definitely took issue with gaim, which was Pidgin's old
           | name from when it was mainly an AIM client.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin_(software)#Naming_dispu.
           | ..
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Yeah the days of integrated chat messengers seem to be dead. I
         | loved Trillian way back when and all of the UI customization
         | options.
        
         | xenophonf wrote:
         | Does Adium not compile on newer versions of macOS? Development
         | appears to have slowed down, but it doesn't look completely
         | abandoned. I might try to feed it to Xcode on my hackintosh if
         | only to see what kinds of errors crop up.
         | 
         | That said, I've switched back to terminal-based IRC clients, so
         | I haven't run either Pidgin or Adium in probably 10 years. It's
         | sad. Both were really good tools.
        
           | duskwuff wrote:
           | Honestly, it's mostly a matter of Adium having lost its
           | purpose. Most of the IM networks it originally interacted
           | with no longer exist or are no longer open to third-party
           | clients, and the ones that remain (mostly XMPP and IRC)
           | aren't necessarily a great fit for Adium.
        
             | pjerem wrote:
             | I've been surprised recently by the availability of plugins
             | for libpurple (the lib on which Adium is based) which
             | supports Telegram, Signal, Facebook ...
        
               | duskwuff wrote:
               | Modern IM networks aren't a great fit for libpurple
               | because they fundamentally work differently.
               | 
               | "Old-school" IM networks like AIM were simple to work
               | with from a client perspective -- you connect to the
               | network, you send and receive messages, and that's it.
               | There was no real support for server-side message
               | history, multiple clients, mobile clients, or offline
               | messaging, so third-party clients often just implemented
               | their own local history instead.
               | 
               | Newer IM networks like Telegram are usually designed from
               | a mobile-first perspective -- the Telegram client
               | protocol is designed around the concept that the server
               | has a definitive view of history across all chats, and
               | the client synchronizes portions of that history to local
               | storage to display it. It certainly isn't impossible to
               | adapt this to a design like libpurple/Adium/etc, but it's
               | an awkward fit and is likely to fail to support features
               | which don't fit into that model, like chat messages being
               | edited or deleted by the other party in the conversation.
        
         | vanshlanger wrote:
         | definitely used Adium when I had a white macbook
        
         | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
         | I'd love to see what Adium's interface actually looked like,
         | but apparently the website does not believe in screenshots. :(
        
           | MiddleEndian wrote:
           | One of the non-obvious parts of Adium's interface from the
           | screenshots was that it integrated with Mac OS's calendar
           | app, so I could have a contact "John Smith" and enter his AIM
           | name, his Yahoo name, etc and they'd all show up as "John
           | Smith" and be collapsed into one entry in your contact list.
           | 
           | On top of that, Adium is/was also incredibly themable. You
           | could use independent Adium Xtra addons for both your contact
           | list and your chats. I had a theme so that all messages just
           | appeared sequentially like so:
           | 
           | [Hello][Hello][What's Up?][Etc.]
           | 
           | where mine were red and the person I was talking to was in
           | blue (or vice versa, it's been awhile). You could see so many
           | messages at once.
           | 
           | Adium is the application I miss most from MacOS, although I
           | imagine I'd still miss it even if I were still using a Mac.
           | With the exception of the addition of multi-device continuous
           | chat history, we've really regressed in the category of
           | instant messaging since the days of multi-chat clients.
        
             | egypturnash wrote:
             | I'm using a Mac and I definitely miss Adium.
        
           | lproven wrote:
           | Er... does this help?
           | 
           | https://adium.im/screenshots/
           | 
           | I still have it installed. It was very useful in the PowerPC
           | era.
           | 
           | Pidgin still is useful: it talks to a whole bunch of services
           | that are still alive... IRC, Telegram, Skype, Google
           | Hangouts, Slack, Rocket.chat, XMPP, ICQ, etc.
           | 
           | Sadly Adium can't use Pidgin or Libpurple plugins directly.
           | This severely reduces its usefulness today.
        
           | mdasen wrote:
           | The website isn't well maintained anymore since we've kinda
           | passed the days that people used multi-service clients. Here
           | are some screenshots:
           | 
           | https://www.adium.im/screenshots/images/overview.jpg
           | 
           | The area inside the chat window is HTML rendered via WebKit
           | and you can change the theme easily. The Contacts list is
           | also HTML in the middle so that's all theme-able too.
           | 
           | https://images.six.betanews.com/screenshots/1110403338-1.jpg
           | 
           | Here's a Contacts list that's more compact and a chat window
           | without the top toolbar.
           | 
           | https://adium.im/screenshots/images/overvieworange.jpg
           | 
           | Here's a more radical theming where they've gotten rid of the
           | window around the contact list so it's floating.
           | 
           | If you go through the Adium Xtras, you can see all sorts of
           | chat (https://www.adiumxtras.com/index.php?a=search&cat_id=5&
           | sort=...), contact list (https://www.adiumxtras.com/index.php
           | ?a=cats&cat_id=4&sort=do...), and other ways of styling
           | Adium.
        
             | Gualdrapo wrote:
             | > The area inside the chat window is HTML rendered via
             | WebKit and you can change the theme easily
             | 
             | KDE's Kopete (and after that, the now defunct KDE
             | Telepathy) could that too. Maybe GNOME's Empathy client
             | could that too. I agree all of that was really cool.
             | 
             | I sorely miss those all-in-one messengers completely
             | integrated to the desktop.
        
               | dmacvicar wrote:
               | In Kopete we even had Latex rendering plugins and auto-
               | away plugins using motion detection :-)
               | 
               | (I started that project decades ago and still grateful to
               | it, as it was the start of my career in tech)
        
         | bergie wrote:
         | The messaging app on the Nokia N900 was also based on
         | libpurple. You had all of your Google Talk and Skype contacts
         | and chats, together with SMS in a single place.
        
           | wjt wrote:
           | It was based on Telepathy https://telepathy.freedesktop.org/.
           | None of the built-in backends for XMPP, SIP, Skype and
           | cellular calls used libpurple. (A libpurple-based backend
           | could be installed from the community app repo.)
        
       | lousken wrote:
       | After ICQ and QIP, Trillian was the way to go for me.
       | Unfortunately the inability to use facebook without being
       | constantly banned forced me to switch to Element. And while
       | Element and Matrix is cool, it still doesn't come close to
       | Trillian. Emotes are not customizable, theming is harder, and the
       | amount of things u can do with history is endless compared to
       | Element. Overall I feel like Element is more like Teams and
       | missing features for power users. The search functionality and
       | working with many attachments in element is very tedious, no way
       | to search in them, sort them, filter them... I hope they can
       | improve on that, I have over 500k messages and history feels
       | useless thanks to that.
        
       | shashurup wrote:
       | I definitely liked it, however, since whatsapp, telegram, slack
       | etc had joined the game with mostly proprietary protocols it
       | looks like it just has no chance to catch up and it is very sad -
       | I find the ability to choose a client quite important.
       | 
       | P.S. I have even written a plugin for - quickpurple
        
         | __del__ wrote:
         | protocols like aim's oscar were proprietary. it's the legal and
         | business landscape that's changed.
        
       | ganzuul wrote:
       | I could never come to terms with the tattered and worn user
       | interface experience for an application that is so prominent on
       | the desktop. Perhaps the widget system is glamorous underneath,
       | but to accomplish its job of getting out of the way of
       | functionality... I can feel the RSI acting up from the time when
       | Pidgin was my only option.
       | 
       | Thanks for what you did, no thanks for repeat business.
        
         | millzlane wrote:
         | I grew up using windows running the "classic" interface. It's
         | really no different from any other GTK based app.
        
       | vanshlanger wrote:
       | Damn I used to use pidgin like 15 years ago, can't believe
       | they're still around!
        
       | hammyhavoc wrote:
       | Why not Matrix with bridges?
        
         | zaik wrote:
         | Bridges require you to forfeit your credentials to your
         | homeserver and break E2EE.
        
           | hammyhavoc wrote:
           | But surely if it was worth protecting then you would be
           | having that conversation on Matrix in the first place rather
           | than Facebook Messenger?
        
             | zaik wrote:
             | I mostly use XMPP for secure communication. Sadly, Matrix
             | does not built upon the XMPP standard and reinvents another
             | incompatible E2EE chat protocol.
        
         | BaseballPhysics wrote:
         | I had really mixed experiences with the various Matrix bridges
         | the last time I tried this. I might have to take another crack
         | at it, though, to see if it's gotten any better.
         | 
         | Though, honestly, now that most people I know are on Signal,
         | the only other messenger platform I care about is Slack, and
         | given that's just for work, I'm not sure I care anymore...
        
       | anta40 wrote:
       | I'm a heavy Pidgin user during undergraduate days (2006-2010),
       | when Yahoo Messenger was still really popular.
       | 
       | Thanks to Pidgin Portable, simply copied the zipped folder to the
       | USB flashdisk, visit any computer lab then I can YM'ed my
       | friends. Good old days :)
        
       | valbaca wrote:
       | oh pidgin. Throughout my life (as a millennial) chat went this
       | way:
       | 
       | 1. IRC
       | 
       | 2. IRC, Yahoo messenger, Aol Instant Messenger, MSN Messenger
       | (mostly based on your ISP in the early days)
       | 
       | 3. All + Skype (video!! wow!) + Google messenger. *This was when
       | pidgin was invaluable* (there was also some Duck app for macOS?)
       | 
       | 4. Skype started charging and since everyone was on Facebook,
       | everyone moved to Facebook messenger. Text messages also became
       | free, so for instant comms you just texted people.
       | 
       | 5. Slowly FB Messenger took precedence over even text messages as
       | data plans became better
       | 
       | 6. A decade passes...
       | 
       | 7. The exodus off of Facebook begins and Discord takes over as a
       | way to talk to your group of friends.
        
         | jitix wrote:
         | As an Indian millennial, my journey was a bit different:
         | 
         | 1. Yahoo messenger (2001/2 - First internet experience)
         | 
         | 2. Yahoo messenger + Text (2003/4)
         | 
         | 3. Text + Skype (2006/7)
         | 
         | 4. Whatsapp + FB Messenger + Skype (2010)
         | 
         | 5. Whatsapp/iMessage + Instagram (2016/17)
        
         | sidpatil wrote:
         | > (there was also some Duck app for macOS?)
         | 
         | I believe you're referring to Adium [1].
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adium
        
         | pacbard wrote:
         | > there was also some Duck app for macOS?
         | 
         | You are thinking of Adium (https://adium.im). I believe it was
         | a port of pidgin/libpurple to cocoa/aqua (or whatever the macOS
         | gui framework was back then).
        
         | mattwad wrote:
         | What no ICQ? I got off the train before FB Messenger,
         | personally. I don't think it was 'required' to have an app
         | anymore once texting became free. And now everyone's on
         | iMessage, except for Android users like me.
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Don't forget Trillian!
        
           | sumtechguy wrote:
           | I still use it. But all it is good for anymore is a google
           | chat/hangouts desktop app. It was nice gluing all of them
           | together like pidgin.
        
           | johnisgood wrote:
           | Woah! My Trillian-lover friend also used KVirc quite a lot.
           | Actually, not sure it was called KVirc, but something like
           | that.
        
         | klvino wrote:
         | Would probably include ICQ in the list for #2
        
         | dijit wrote:
         | Similar.
         | 
         | 1. IRC
         | 
         | 2. ICQ
         | 
         | 3. MSN
         | 
         | 4. IRC (again)
         | 
         | 5. Skype and Facebook
         | 
         | 6. WhatsApp
         | 
         | 7. Facebook again
         | 
         | 8. Still Facebook (very sticky)
         | 
         | 9. IRC + Slack (some communities) + Discord (some communities)
         | + Facebook/Whatsapp + Signal + Telegram + Matrix + Zulip
         | 
         | Yeah, I think we need a new libpurple.
        
           | snvzz wrote:
           | Before: IRC + XMPP.
           | 
           | Today: IRC + Matrix.
        
           | syntheticnature wrote:
           | Part of the lack of 'new libpurple' is that companies have
           | grown much more adept at/focused on removing third party
           | clients. Discord in particular, IIRC, will even ban users for
           | using third party clients.
        
             | chipx86 wrote:
             | This was a problem even back when Gaim (now Pidgin) was at
             | peak popularity.
             | 
             | I used to be a dev on the team, and we had our accounts
             | banned all the time. Some of the IM services didn't mind us
             | being there (MSN seemed more than fine with it, and we
             | reportedly had fans within the team there, though future
             | protocol versions made it harder for us to figure out).
             | 
             | Yahoo wanted us off and did everything they could to keep
             | us from connecting. Changing auth schemes to increasingly-
             | elaborate obfuscated methods, at one point throwing pages
             | of what looked like equations at us.
             | 
             | AIM would have been fine with us if we had used TOC (their
             | open source protocol), but OSCAR is where all the features
             | were at. They didn't outright ban clients, but my
             | understanding is that their lawyers were involved at one
             | point (though I think mainly due to the name "GAIM").
             | 
             | But you're right, they are removing third-party clients
             | more. And fewer protocols are unencrypted plain text, which
             | makes it harder as well. Still, work continues.
        
           | tjader wrote:
           | I've been using Matrix + bridges to fill that gap. I use IRC,
           | Telegram, Google Chat, Discord and WhatsApp all via bridges,
           | so I only have to interact with a single interface and all my
           | chats are in the same place.
           | 
           | Before that I used first Trillian, then Pidgin. Then seeking
           | persistence across clients I started using bitlbee to access
           | everything through IRC, but that really sucked for media-
           | heavy things like Telegram. My current setup of my own Matrix
           | homeserver + bridges has been working great and feels way
           | more liberating than using 6 different apps.
        
             | kurisufag wrote:
             | this, but I bridged them all to IRC by custom means, which
             | is the easiest to implement and allows people on all
             | platforms to talk in the same channel-equivalent. the media
             | issue is solved by using a more modern client that can
             | generate embeds (e.g. glowing-bear for weechat-relay).
        
               | tjader wrote:
               | Do you manage to get pictures, audio messages, videos and
               | reactions to work well in both directions with that
               | setup?
               | 
               | Also, I use this for personal messages as well as group
               | chats. The people I interact with don't even know I am
               | not using the native client.
        
           | spennant wrote:
           | I started with Talk -
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_(software) But I guess
           | that's because I'm Gen-X
        
             | mxuribe wrote:
             | Thank you! I remember that I had started on a chat system
             | right before IRC, but could not for the life of me remember
             | its name; though i knew that it was a simple name. Talk was
             | the first thing that i started on, but once i learned that
             | IRC allowed me to connect with folks around the world (at
             | the time, Talk was limited to the single unix server that
             | users were connected to, though that constraint was
             | expanded beyond that later on if i recall correctly). Man,
             | i remember those early days; what fun to marvel at chatting
             | with others either across the university campus or - later
             | on - across the world!
        
           | Agamus wrote:
           | My path, which began in 1997:
           | 
           | 1. IRC
        
         | k__ wrote:
         | Haha, nice.
         | 
         | My journey was:
         | 
         | 1. ICQ, because my gamer friends used it.
         | 
         | 2. Added IRC, while it felt already outdated, somehow a bunch
         | of my Japan-nerd friends used it.
         | 
         | 3. Added AIM, YIM, MSN, because girls and my parents used them.
         | 
         | 4. Switched to Trillian, because it wasn't managable otherwise.
         | 
         | 5. Everyone moved to Facebook Messenger.
         | 
         | 6. Everyone moved to WhatsApp
         | 
         | 7. Now and then some friends switch to Signal, Telegram, or
         | another "secure," alternative to WhatsApp.
         | 
         | 8. Started working remote and everything is Slack and Zoom.
         | 
         | 9. Dabbled in Web3/crypto and everything is Discord
        
         | HeckFeck wrote:
         | Stage 2 evokes warm memories. The clients were featureful
         | enough but very far from being resource hogs. The UIs were
         | workable and hid plenty of options in their menus.
         | 
         | The webcam features on MSN messenger landed at the same time as
         | broadband internet became widespread in my country, when I was
         | at school, so everyone was in on the novelty.
         | 
         | Some of it is certainly the cynicism of age and work life, but
         | I'm certain something has been lost since then. The UI, the
         | nudges, the winks, the games, the chaotic friend lists were all
         | magic in a way that FB, WA, Slack, Teams, Discord, et al
         | aren't.
        
         | egman_ekki wrote:
         | 1. Odigo & web based chats
         | 
         | 2. ICQ
         | 
         | 3. Trillian & QIP, mostly to connect to ICQ
         | 
         | 4. Facebook chat
         | 
         | 5. Google Hangouts, Allo, gmail chat
         | 
         | 6. Back to Facebook Messenger because all my contacts use it,
         | Slack for work
        
         | madrox wrote:
         | I'm the proud owner of a six digit ICQ number. What a time that
         | was.
         | 
         | It's funny. Having a similar trajectory of chat clients, I'd
         | say my migration in my teens was dictated by "which service
         | were the girls I wanted to talk to using?" In my 20s it was
         | "what preserved my session as I ran around town and logged into
         | various dumb terminals" until finally "what worked best on
         | mobile."
         | 
         | Now that I'm married in my 40s, it's "which service are the
         | guys I want to talk to using?"
        
         | 8ytecoder wrote:
         | GTalk - you could install it without admin and it was blazing
         | fast.
        
         | qiskit wrote:
         | No icq? There was a time when the first thing you installed on
         | your computer was instant messaging applications. It's how you
         | kept in touch with friends online. Crazy how quickly it fell
         | off.
        
       | ValtteriL wrote:
       | Pidgin has been a trusty XMPP client. Staff at one of my previous
       | employers used it for IRC.
       | 
       | Interestingly, some actors are willing to buy exploits against
       | Pidgin users for sums higher than what the authors have made out
       | of it.[0]
       | 
       | [0] https://therecord.media/zerodium-acquiring-zero-days-in-
       | pidg...
        
       | millzlane wrote:
       | Great app. But development was hostile to new users willing to
       | help report bugs. It was then I learned of the "if you can't fix
       | it, then don't complain" crowd of OSS.
        
       | tomfast wrote:
       | Still universal!
        
       | UltraViolence wrote:
        
       | greatquux wrote:
       | I still use Pidgin for XMPP and the increasingly-unreliable-
       | Facebook-Messenger plugin, along with a Gnome extension that
       | allows me to reply directly to chat popups from the notification
       | no matter what virtual desktop I'm on. I really can't get that
       | combination anywhere else in fact and I hope it never stops
       | working. :)
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-25 23:00 UTC)