[HN Gopher] Azores - Evacuations Begin as Seismic Crisis Unfolds... ___________________________________________________________________ Azores - Evacuations Begin as Seismic Crisis Unfolds in Atlantic Author : Ftuuky Score : 171 points Date : 2022-03-27 17:07 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (weatherboy.com) (TXT) w3m dump (weatherboy.com) | santialbo wrote: | I hope it's not like what happened in La Palma in the Canary | islands last year. But it brings to the attention that maybe | building your life on a volcanic area is not the best move over | the long term. Chances that something happens in a 100 year | lifespan are not negligible. | ChrisMarshallNY wrote: | Volcanic soil is some of the best soil there is. | | If you want agriculture, there's no place better than near a | volcano (which is one reason for big death tolls, when they | blow their tops). | | I lived in Uganda, and that country is surrounded by volcanoes | (I think they are all dormant). The soil is jet-black, and it | is a gorgeous, lush nation. | selimthegrim wrote: | Rwanda and Burundi too? | ChrisMarshallNY wrote: | I think so. There's a huge fault, right up the middle of | Africa. The Rift Valley is an awesome place. | mrlonglong wrote: | I recently watched a documentary about the east rift | valley. They say in a few millions of years there'll be a | new ocean and Africa will divide into two. | jp57 wrote: | Unless you're Nietzsche: "The secret of realizing the greatest | fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment of existence is: to | live dangerously! Build your cities on the slopes of Vesuvius!" | petre wrote: | I'd rather build on a voclanic area than anywhere near Russia. | Places with volcanoes are maybe the nicest places to live if | you're not obsessed with material posessions. | | https://youtu.be/U1SSlulfFKg | | We've been to the Azores. I really wish these people are safe. | We want to return there again soon. | mhoad wrote: | I was just in Azores a few months ago and was seriously | considering the move there. Truly one of the most naturally | beautiful places I've even heard the chance to see. | | I hope that everyone is able to stay safe and get through this | alright. | dzhiurgis wrote: | I'm considering move from NZ to Azores too. Seems weather is | quite nice, albeit might be too humid in mid summer and a bit | cloudy. | stjohnswarts wrote: | Can I have your spot in NZ? :) | b20000 wrote: | what was your main reason to move? | mrPurplePinkie wrote: | From my point of view, In Terceira there was only one | traffic light (this was ca 2003) | Turing_Machine wrote: | It says in the article that 8 people were killed in the | eruption of 1808, more than 200 years ago. From Wikipedia, the | most recent significant eruption in the Azores was in 1957. No | one was killed. | | People have been living in the Azores since the 1400s. | | I'm willing to bet that the risk from volcanic eruption in the | Azores is considerably less than the risk from, say, traffic | accidents in a major mainland city. | DoingIsLearning wrote: | Also not really a factor nowadays but if you were farming on | volcanic land in the 1400's it would have been insanely | fertile (andisol). | santialbo wrote: | Noone died in La Palma, but thousands of families lost their | lifelong belongings. | zeruch wrote: | If we pick where we live based on likelihood of natural | disaster, we basically reduced the human footprint to maybe 2% | of the planetary landmass. :) | stjohnswarts wrote: | I think there's a difference between building a house in the | midwest and building one on top of a volcano? There's a lot | of probably to work with there (along with possibility to | escape the natural disaster, I can build a tornado proof | underground shelter) | supernova87a wrote: | I had the recollection that at least in terms of earthquake risk, | the mid-Atlantic region is not nearly as bad for severe | earthquakes as the Pacific, since the mid-Atlantic is an | _expanding_ / divergent fault. I.e. material gets pushed up | gradually and the plates are politely moving away from one | another. This is supposed to be less catastrophic compared to | subduction where big stresses build up and get released suddenly | when things break. Is that generally right? | | But of course, that is just the earthquake part, doesn't speak to | the volcano or tsunami risk of big mountains erupting or falling | into the ocean. I guess this current story is about the | possibility of lava/ash, like what happened to the suburbs | downslope of Kilauea or Soufriere Hills in the last couple years. | | Edit, actually watching one of the videos linked by other | commenters, it looks remarkably like Molokai and people living | (gulp) at the bottom of steep drop-off/valleys. | ByteJockey wrote: | I thought transform boundaries were the big earthquake risk | (not that there is none at convergent boundaries). | | At least that's what I remember from my 8th grade earth science | class. I could be really wrong. | nknezek wrote: | Earth science PhD here - you're pretty much right, but Atlantic | oceans can still be bad. | | Most earthquakes are caused by tectonic plate motion. | | The biggest earthquakes (>M9, e.g. Japan 2011) occur at | subduction zones where an oceanic plate collides with and dives | underneath a continental plate. Japan, South&Central America, | New Zealand, and Malaysia are the biggest and most common | examples. Two plates pushing against each other allow large | energy to build, which can be released suddenly and | catastrophically. | | Large earthquakes (M7-8, e.g. San Francisco 1906) can still | occur along strike-slip faults, where two plates are sliding | past each other. However, because the plates are sliding, these | faults usually cannot build enough energy for extremely large | earthquakes (>M9.0). San Andreas fault in California is the | most well known strike-slip fault and runs through both LA and | SF, and has caused plenty of damage partly because the faults | run directly through population centers. | | The Azores lie on top of strike slip and expanding (normal) | faults. Thus, they are not likely to experience the largest | earthquakes (M9), but could be hit but a M8 which can still be | devastating, especially if buildings are not constructed with | earthquake safety in mind. | | In addition, there is a high risk of any earthquake triggering | an underwater landslide since the Azores are a mid-ocean island | chain. This could cause a tsunami which could damage far-away | locations. | | As far as lava/ash risk -- generally the biggest risk is from | explosive eruptions forming into a fast-moving cloud of ash and | mud called a "pyroclastic flow" or "lahar". [1] These can | travel faster than a car and blanket everything in their path | in a boiling, burning cloud. Think Mt St Helens or Mt Vesuvius. | However, only certain types of volcanoes are at risk of this | type of eruption -- Hawaii for example erupts as smooth, oozing | lava flows -- and I don't know if the Azores are at risk for | this kind of eruption. | | Notes on safety: | | For earthquake safety, the best cure is preparation. Most | injuries and death occur from items falling on top of people | during the shaking. Secure shelves and items on walls. Avoid | living in structures on poles as they are prone to collapse | (e.g. apartments with parking garage on first level). Avoid | living in marshy areas or seaside land constructed with | landfill (due to liquefaction) or on steep slopes (due to | landslides). | | For tsunamis, if there is a warning, head to high ground | further inland if possible, or move to upper stories of the | roof of structures. | | [1] https://www.usgs.gov/observatories/cascades-volcano- | observat... earthquake safety: | https://www.calacademy.org/explore-science/how-to-prepare-fo... | tsunami safety: https://www.ready.gov/tsunamis | darksaints wrote: | There was a pyroclastic flow event the last time this volcano | erupted (early 1800s), and it killed something like 30 | people. | | Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bocas_de_Fogo | | One big concern I have is the potential for a big boom that | can be heard for thousands of miles (like the recent Tongan | eruption), which would be in range of a certain trigger happy | sociopath that wants a reason to use his nukes. I'm not sure | if either of those scenarios (big boom or misinterpreted nuke | signals) is realistic, but I'll be worried until it is | effectively a non-issue. | gremlinsinc wrote: | At first I thought that was kinda crazy, cause he'd 'know' | pretty quick it was a volcano, but then I realized some of | the 'deadmen switches' are triggered by seismic actions, or | at least that's what I'd heard/read elsewhere, maybe it's | not. Would kinda suck if something automatically launched | because of a geological event, not an actual attack, and it | actually wasn't Putin causing it. | EdwardDiego wrote: | Quibble - pyroclastic flows and lahars are very different | things. | | The former is the boiling burning cloud of gas and tephra, | the latter is a slurry of water and tephra. | gremlinsinc wrote: | Is there some sort of correlation with uptick in seismic | activity, I mean are we in seeing normal activity, or is | there indeed a lot more going on than 'usual'? | | Maybe it's just some synchronicity and I'm just more 'aware' | because of all the other natural disasters, and non-natural, | but it just 'feels' like something big is coming because of | all the volcanoes, tsunami's, and other reports of activity. | | Also, how much does climate change affect volcanoes, and | earthquakes? | eurasiantiger wrote: | Would it be possible to trigger an earthquake by undersea | drilling in a heterogenous or diffuse fault zone? | | Asking for a reason. | | https://www.istc.int/en/project/CCBC05C670F935B0C32570040042. | .. | | https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20171121-why-russia-is- | se... | pid-1 wrote: | If I'm not mistaken there was an earthquake in 17xx that almost | erased Lisbon. | | Still, it really appears that sismic activity in the Pacific is | much more frequent. | Ftuuky wrote: | 1755 earthquake (and tsunami) nearly destroyed the whole city | and was probably one of the most deadliest in history. It was | also one of the first quakes to be studied scientifically [0] | | Sooner or later it will hit Lisbon again, scientists say. As | a Portuguese I'm very afraid the city is not prepared for | something with an estimated magnitude of 7.7-9.0... | | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1755_Lisbon_earthquake | EdwardDiego wrote: | I was wondering, given that quake, do Portugal's building | codes now incorporate seismic standards? | Ftuuky wrote: | Yes but since 2020 it's moving to European construction | standards [0] | | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocode_8:_Design_of_s | tructur... | mrlonglong wrote: | 1755, and it really did obliterate the city. They had to | rebuild it all, it was all gone. | zeruch wrote: | It did destroy a significant portion of the city, and the | rebuilding was a centerpoint of the Marquis de Pombal, whose | expanding rule/influence was largely won based on his skill | at using the rebuild to enact all manner of political change | in a short period of time. | pfdietz wrote: | GeologyHub has a short video on the situation: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTxhIEYICWw | | Note the risk from landslides onto coastal flat areas. | philipov wrote: | Thanks for a new youtube channel to follow. | pfdietz wrote: | I also recommend Mentour Pilot (not geology related, but | interesting.) | | This episode (about Olympic 411) is a nailbiter: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT6r9_wmT20 | AtlasBarfed wrote: | Is this massive scale landslide danger an Atlantic bicoastal | tsunami danger like the Canary Islands? | | edit link: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbre_Vieja_tsunami_hazard | pfdietz wrote: | No, it's due to people living on the debris fans below steep | cliffs on the island, which were formed by previous large | landslides. | philipov wrote: | The article compares it to them, but also mentions that the | exact extent of a tsunami danger from landslides in the | canaries is debated. There are arguments that the travel | distance to landfall, continental shelves, and tendency | towards multi-stage landslides mitigates the danger from | landslides in the Canary Islands. | [deleted] | Morthor wrote: | I am from, and currently live in the Azores. Friends from Sao | Jorge Island have told me that they are not overly concerned at | the moment and have evacuated only to another part of the island. | Many people have gone to other islands. Before you think it's | silly that people seem unpreocupied, please remember that | vulcanoes and earthquakes are, and have been, a part of our lives | since our ancestors populated the Azores. | asah wrote: | Nice! Being from a boring place, I'm jealous. :-) | | How can you tell when it's a "big one" vs a normal one? | metadat wrote: | This is terrifying and scary sounding, there is still so much we | don't understand about the earth. It seems we are involved in | quite a dangerous experiment as society continues to scale out | and consume resources at an ever increasing rate. | | Are we most likely screwed as a species in the medium term? Is | the best plan really to rely on the benevolent leadership and | good intentions of low-EQ celebrities like Elon Musk and Uncle | Jeff Bezos along with the government to save us from catastrophe? | | I sure hope we (and our children) aren't stuck on a dead end | path, but sometimes it seems quite probable. We can't even stop | putin from doing crazy stupid murderous shit because we are | rightly afraid of a ww3 nuclear holocaust. This doesn't even | start to address the reality that the universe doesn't care | whether or not humanity continues to exist. It's frustrating and | depressing. | senthil_rajasek wrote: | >Is the best plan really to rely on the benevolent leadership | and good intentions of low-EQ celebrities like Elon Musk and | Uncle Jeff Bezos along with the government to save us from | catastrophe? | | If we learned anything from the global pandemic (covid-19), the | world would do better by building and strengthening | institutions like WHO and CDC to solve global problems. | pasquinelli wrote: | isn't this just about a volcano? | pessimizer wrote: | WaitWaitWha wrote: | /s | | (please tell me you just forgot, but it sort of fits your | alias ;) ) | [deleted] | jofer wrote: | For whatever it's worth, while there are plenty of reasons to | be concerned about sustainability and resource consumption, | this particular type of natural disaster has absolutely zero to | do with humanity. | | This is very much something we understand quite well. You're | seeing volcanic activity on a volcanic island on a plate | boundary. Basically, this is the geological "normal" for this | area that's been going on much longer than human civilization. | | It's fair to be worried about increased human population in | areas that are affected by this, but it's not in any way | something caused by civilization's toll on the environment or | even something we "don't understand" in some way. There's | _tons_ that we don't understand in detail, but the broad brush | strokes of volcanoes at a mid ocean ridge is something we | understand relatively well. Note that the evacuation is | beginning _before_ the eruption due to both local seismic | monitoring of the sub-surface and space-borne monitoring of | deformation at the surface. | metadat wrote: | Thank you, amazing to read these comforting responses | especially from an actual geologist! | asiachick wrote: | wow, that page is impossible to read. Every few seconds it kept | popping back to the top of the page. After 5 times trying to | continue reading where I left off I gave up | | maybe these ones | | https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/with-tears-uncertainty-... | | https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/azores-volcanic... | powera wrote: | Agreed. Hopefully the mods will replace the link. | stjohnswarts wrote: | Use an adblocker? | virgulino wrote: | An eruption of ads. | | The Reader view (F9) in Firefox fixed it. | [deleted] | Ftuuky wrote: | This link has more information than Reuters (and it's not | paywalled like the links you've shared, at least from me). I | didn't notice the pop-ups due to the adblock I use, my | apologies for that. | fwsgonzo wrote: | If you disable JavaScript on the page it reads fine. I have it | disabled by default. | yosito wrote: | I don't understand how normies with JavaScript enabled manage | to do anything on the internet these days. Seems content | publishers have thrown usability out the window in favor of | spammy tracking and manipulative marketing. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-03-27 23:00 UTC)