[HN Gopher] Ask HN: How to move away from Google ___________________________________________________________________ Ask HN: How to move away from Google A big chunk of my personal software suite comes from Google, mostly Gmail, Gdrive and Android. I want to eventually move away, especially gmail and drive. What are the alternatives that can be used with expectation that they will remain active for at least a decade ? Author : rocode2 Score : 123 points Date : 2022-03-30 19:21 UTC (3 hours ago) | 4kelly wrote: | Fastmail for email. | | I used to use syncthing to maintain backups and syncing, but | eventually just gave into iCloud as a compromise. Setting up and | maintaining syncthing on wife and kids devices became a pain. | | DuckDuckGo for search. Dropping down to google when I'm stuck. | Honestly I've found google worse for technical topics due to all | the junk websites that recycle content. | | You'll be fighting against the current trying to ditch google | with an android phone! I'm sure it's possible though. | | A great benefit of de googling (and also dropping most social | media) is that I am barely exposed to ads at all! It's is | shocking using other peoples devices now ahah. | throwaway67743 wrote: | I really want to like ddg but it's just awful - not only are | the results completely irrelevant but now it's started showing | me russian language results, I'm in a country that uses the | Latin alphabet. | throwaway67743 wrote: | I think though, the irrelevancy of results is worse as | sometimes the Cyrillic results make sense once translated | jppope wrote: | try brave search | victor22 wrote: | Just use !g on your query whenever you wanna go to actually | use google. Don't trade slightly better search for censorship | and privacy invasion. | Macha wrote: | Google is catching them on the way down in my experience | these days. I'm doing less and less !g, not because I like | the DDG results, but because I'm just not confident in Google | showing me anything useful either. | | This might be just a consequence of cutting the feed of data | into Google to personalise from other sources, though. | Perhaps people who've thought they've been equivalent for a | longer period were ahead of me on that one. | greendude29 wrote: | How strange, I've been using DDG for a few years now and only | rarely do I need to go to Google. Do you have examples of | searches where Google is definitely superior (just out of | curiosity, not challenging the notion)? | Macha wrote: | Recent one from me: "Hibernate window function" | | Google showed results that explain Hibernate's expression | language isn't sufficient to express them and explainers on | how to drop down to native queries. | | DDG showed me how to hibernate my windows PC. | 4kelly wrote: | Fair enough! That's rough. Apologies I assumed English :) | throwaway67743 wrote: | Well I am a native English speaker but in a Slavic country | so I'd expect some results, but they're not they seem to | assume russian which means Cyrillic which I cannot read | nerdponx wrote: | I use Fastmail for email, contacts, calendar, reminders, and | notes. I have been an extremely happy customer for several | years and I am happy to promote them. I don't think I've ever | used another web-based service that has such a high | "usefulness/power : annoyance : money spent" ratio. | | I use paid Seafile hosting for file sync. I haven't tried | Syncthing, but the Seafile clients all seem to work very | smoothly. | uhtred wrote: | You can install /e/os on a lot of android phones. I've been | happy with it. https://e.foundation/ | denkmoon wrote: | Fastmail to replace gmail/calendar/contacts and some file storage | (drive). I also use Syncthing as a replacement for google drive. | Android, well, you know what the only alternative is. | hvmonk wrote: | I have been off google (mostly) by: 1. Email: Zohomail 2. maps: | apple maps (sometimes vet it with google maps to verify shortest | path, etc) 3. drive: iCloud | | Has been working fine so far. | eljimmy wrote: | I run my own mail server and host all my websites on a cheap | Linode instance ($5/mo) - it can be a pain in the ass to setup, | but once it's up and running, there isn't much you need to do. | Been running for 15 years now. | triyambakam wrote: | What suggestions does anyone have for phone providers? I've long | wanted to move off of Google Fi | gregoriol wrote: | One question I've been asking myself about this migration, and | didn't find all the solutions yet, is how to deal with | services/websites/... I've logged into with a Google account. | It's not always clear how, if even possible, to migrate from a | Google SSO to a login/password. | | Does anyone has thoughts on this? | jborichevskiy wrote: | I've had some success requesting password resets on services I | signed up with Oauth to get a chance to set an actual password. | Sometimes this seems to expose the internal account management, | but it really depends. | rattray wrote: | At least once I've been able to do this by reaching out to | customer support. | 1970-01-01 wrote: | I think the fast answer, unfortunately, is going to Microsoft or | Apple. They aren't going anywhere. | keraf wrote: | I moved away from Google a few years ago. I'm using the following | alternatives: | | - Email: ProtonMail | | - Contacts, Calendar, Online storage: NextCloud hosted by Hetzner | (https://www.hetzner.com/storage/storage-share) | | - Phone: LineageOS (Android) | | -- App stores: F-Droid for most apps and Aurora store for the | occasional non F-Droid apps (like the ProtonMail client) | | -- Maps: MagicEarth (not open source but privacy friendly and | very featureful) | | -- Messaging: Telegram FOSS | | -- Contact & Calendar sync: DAVx | | - Notes: Joplin (syncs with NextCloud and available on F-Droid as | well) | | - Search: DuckDuckGo | | ProntonMail (with own domain) and the hosted NextCloud instance | aren't free, but privacy comes with a price and I'm happy to pay | for it. So far I'm very happy with the transition. | butz wrote: | If you are using ProtonMail, you might want to check out their | Proton Calendar. Still waiting for Proton Drive (beta) apps to | see if it might partially replace Google Drive or Dropbox. | jeppester wrote: | You must have learned a lot of things that might prove useful | to other people who might want to do the same transition. | | I for sure would love to read a full length article about it. | RicoElectrico wrote: | An alernative to Magic Earth would be Organic Maps. | https://organicmaps.app/ | | Though it's not as focused on driving, it seems. But may be | good enough. | brewdad wrote: | I use both as I find the trails on Organic Maps easier to | follow, while Magic Earth works better in cities. This is | with the default map types. There might be a setting I could | toggle to give me the best of both in one app. | rattray wrote: | I haven't seen much mention of Maps.Me, but it's another OSM- | based android app I've heard good things about from Europeans | and enjoyed while traveling in South America. | | I haven't tried it much in the US. | maxerickson wrote: | Organic Maps is a fork of maps.me that was started after | maps.me got bought. | | The US should be pretty good for trails, reasonable for | streets and highly variable for addresses and POIs. | destitude wrote: | ProtonMail has abysmally small storage space if you receive | attachments in mail frequently. | thebean11 wrote: | Fastmail is much cheaper if you need many gigs of storage, | but you don't get the encryption Proton offers. | purplesnowflake wrote: | https://app.skiff.org/ for E2EE Google Docs. Even has a direct | integration to make the migration | sam100 wrote: | Just saw they raised their Series A. It seems like more and | more players are entering the privacy space these days. | amilich wrote: | Thanks for sharing! Happy to answer any questions. | awiesenhofer wrote: | Looks great, congrats on the funding! What I couldn't make | out from the website though is: can you export pages to pdf | or other formats? Or share public links to them? | [deleted] | throwra620 wrote: | Mondialisation wrote: | Have a look at r/degoogle | znpy wrote: | Office365 is probably going to stay around for ten more years. | sswaner wrote: | If you are interested in moving off of the Google ecosystem | then you probably won't be happy with the Microsoft version. | DoctorOW wrote: | Sure, but if you're trying to get away from Google... out of | the frying pan and into the fire, right? | Jason_Protell wrote: | Can we assume you're also trying to avoid iOS? | | Alternatives to Android: | | 1. Librem - https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ | | 2. Pine - https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ | | [Disclaimer - I haven't used these devices.] | throwaway67743 wrote: | Self hosted email for 20 years so ignoring that: | | - nextcloud for photos/drive - bitwarden with vaultwarden backend | for passwords - self hosted Firefox Sync for everything else - | syncthing for outlying file sharing - jottacloud for high | capacity storage dump (rclone is your friend) | | Probably forgot something | 4kelly wrote: | These are all great tools. But I wanted to gingerly hop on this | thread to say that de google doesn't have to mean self hosted. | | I found it very rewarding to put my money towards companies | that are aligned with my priorities (be it privacy or other) | even if there were free alternatives. | kingcharles wrote: | Agreed. Fastmail is a great example. They are cheap, but | their product is excellent and so is their support. I never | have to worry about losing my account unless I stop paying. I | got burned on that when I went to jail, but they offer a pre- | pay option so you can now pay a decade worth of fees in | advance :) | zorrolovsky wrote: | Not sure if you do it for privacy, ethical or practical reasons, | but here's my journey: I removed my life from Big Tech (FB, TW, | Gmail, YT, G Drive, MS, and other anti-user/spyware/malware | companies). It was surprisingly easy to do and refreshing | spiritually. | | First, philosophy: this article resonated so much with me that I | made the brave step of deleting my big tech accounts and | switching to Linux: https://medium.com/hackernoon/leaving-apple- | and-google-my-ee... | | Then, execution. This site will help you to find user-friendly | alternatives to your spyware apps/OSs/services: | https://www.privacytools.io/ | | I am now with a setup that maximizes privacy and giving money to | ethical companies: Phone OS: LineageOS and /e/ Desktop/Laptop: | Debian and Linux Mint Browser Mobile: Bromite Browser Desktop: | LibreWolf (firefox fork oriented to privacy) Maps and GPS mobile: | OsmAnd Mobile app store: F-Droid, Aurora Store Search Engine: | DuckduckGo, SearX Email: Posteo (1EUR/month) VPN: Mullvad | (5EUR/month) Online drive: NextCloud-based service ie /e/ | foundation | | Once I researched the above and checked the companies/projects | are trustworthy, I started using them with surprisingly low bumps | in the road. For mobile OS I went radical and didn't even install | microG (a package to enable G services so some apps work well). I | still can use my favorite apps, including banking (although if | you root your phone you might have issues) | rattray wrote: | I was confused what /e/ was; it's https://e.foundation/ | ericfrazier wrote: | Good for you for voting with your wallet and being conscious of | which causes your money supports. | walrus01 wrote: | > I want to eventually move away, especially gmail | | register your own domain name, either for personal or | professional purposes | | take some basic security precautions on your domain registrar | account, use a long complex password that's not used for any | other service anywhere else on the internet, and set up some form | of 2FA for logins as well. | | control your own authoritative DNS zonefile and choose where to | set your MX records | | choose a 3rd party email service such as the other recommendation | here, fastmail, and set the MX records, SPF and DKIM | appropriately | hbn wrote: | > register your own domain name, either for personal or | professional purposes | | I have a question about domains, for whoever might be able to | answer. I've had my own domain for a few years, a .se domain | (only because it's .se and my middle name ends in that, so I | was able to make the whole thing read like my name but with a | dot in it) | | This is the Swedish TLD, which doesn't require you be a citizen | to register. Is there any chance that the requirements for a | TLD can change in the future and revoke my ability to own it? | i.e. they start requiring you be a Swedish citizen to own a .se | domain? Cause as it stands I just use the domain for my | portfolio website which I could change whenever I want, but if | I start tying my entire internet identity to that by | registering it as my email everywhere, then it seems just as | risky as using a gmail account that could get banned at any | time. | walrus01 wrote: | If you're greatly concerned about that, choose a | .net/.com/.org or similar, or a TLD belonging to your actual | country of citizenship/residence. | | Yes it's theoretically possible the Swedish authorities who | control .se could do something else policy wise in the | future. | hbn wrote: | Good to know. I suppose my next question is: is there any | known instances of this happening in the past? | | I suppose regardless, if it ever actually happened, it's | not like you wake up one day and lose your domain. There | would probably be time to buy a new domain and point all | your accounts there before your next renewal. | jackthetab wrote: | I remember the sex, tech and sextech journalist had a | domain, vb.ly, listed in Libya because of the .ly suffix, | much like oreil.ly is today. When the PTPB found out she | talked about <GASP!>sex</GASP!> they pulled her domain. | | So yes, The Swedish government could revoke your domain | because they're the government. | runxel wrote: | I could think of the Brexit: Britons lost the access to | the .eu tld. But there was a really long sunset phase. | More than two years I think? | | I'd sayx it is not really probable that you'd would | immediately be nuked off your tld. And I also can't see | the Swedes pulling this move. | blibble wrote: | > Is there any chance that the requirements for a TLD can | change in the future and revoke my ability to own it? | | yes, see the EU commission forcing new rules on the company | running the .eu tld after brexit | hbn wrote: | Seems like this is the only case of this happening. | [1]Wikipedia: | | > British citizens had their .eu domains suspended on | January 1, 2021 for three months and then deleted on March | 1, 2021 after a grace period to allow EU/EEA citizens to | update the registration information to show their non-UK | address. This is the first case of its kind where an | institution managing an internet Top-level domain has | withdrawn domains en masse for an entire country. | | However, this seems like it wasn't actually a change in | domain registration requirements. It was the fact that the | peoples' citizenship status was changed. The original | requirements[2] of .eu domains from launch was it was only | for EU citizens, so it was really just keeping in line with | its original requirements. | | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.eu | | [2] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/I | P_06_... | blibble wrote: | it's fair enough to prevent new registrations, or even | renewals | | but they deleted domains people had legitimately | purchased prior to usual expiry (in violation of existing | contracts with the registrants) | | standard EU commission pettiness | | (meanwhile even the soviet union's .su is still usable) | awiesenhofer wrote: | Not to hijack the thread but in a similar vain: is anyone using | an esolutions/murena degoogled phone as a daily driver? Thinking | of getting their Fairphone version with /e/os but am unsure how | it will handle common tasks (banking apps, navigation, camera, | ...)? | | ie. https://esolutions.shop/shop/murena-fairphone-4-fr/ | 29athrowaway wrote: | https://www.reddit.com/r/degoogle/ | igordebatur wrote: | I thought I'll be the last to move from Google because I'm | alright with them using all my private data. But now I'm line to | find an alternative: they've just locked our payment profile for | an app with 25k+ positive ratings and their support does | literally nothing to help us. I've just started a thread, maybe | someone has the same experience and can share their experience | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30861147 | SamWhited wrote: | I've been a big fan of Fastmail for email and calendars. I've | also thought about joining May First Co-op | (https://mayfirst.coop/) as they've been around for a bit and | offer a suite of services which includes email, chat, nextcloud | for documents and files, etc. | | I've also had good results with DDG for most things search. I | know people say the results are worse, and on some occasions they | are, but mostly it's perfectly serviceable in my experience. | | For video conferencing I've been using a mix of Jitsi Meet and | meet.coop (a big blue button instance that I have access to | through my membership in social.coop, which is good for social | media). | | For chat (including phone calls and SMS through https://jmp.chat) | I use https://conversations.im, the client costs money but the | service just went free unless you want to use a custom domain. | | My phone is running Lineage OS using F-Droid for an app store. I | don't like F-Droid very much for reasons that don't matter here | (that might have been fixed since the last time I looked into it | for all I know), but it is a perfectly good alternative so I | recommend it in the absence of anything better. | | For maps I've been using Organic (https://organicmaps.app/). It | uses Open Street map data so at first a lot of places I wanted to | navigate to weren't there, but I added all the places I go | regularly to the map and now it works pretty well. | b3nji wrote: | Start here. An app that helps you deploy your own server with | various tools you need. | | Platform on user's hosting provider for deploying private | services, managed via mobile application. | | https://selfprivacy.org/en/ | uoaei wrote: | Is there anything similar for the self-hosted space? | peepop6 wrote: | I switched to Tutanota for email and calendar and it has been | surprisingly flawless. | | To make the transition easier I started by forwarding all Gmail | emails to Tutanota and I've been slowly updating my accounts to | the new email. The plan is to eventually delete my Google | accounts completely. | AussieWog93 wrote: | I got rid of my smartphone altogether 2 years ago and haven't | missed it at all (we use my wife's phone in the car for Google | Maps). | | Before that I tried de-Googled Android and the experience wasn't | great. Many of the alternatives can ostensibly do what the Big | Tech product does, but there are bizarre pitfalls that break the | experience. Stuff like OSMAnd having no business names and taking | literally 15 minutes to map a route across town. | basisword wrote: | Could you explain issues you have run into by ditching the | smartphone and the solutions to those issues? | | A few things come to mind for me: | | - 2-factor auth (SMS or app based). | | - Banking (in the UK now a lot of online purchases must also be | verified through the banks app). | | - Navigating in your city (public transport + just finding | places by foot). | | - Anything else you've come across that assumes everyone has a | smartphone. | | Also, what benefits have you found through ditching the | smartphone? | AussieWog93 wrote: | >- 2-factor auth (SMS or app based). | | I still have an old Blackberry for SMS 2FA. | | >- Banking (in the UK now a lot of online purchases must also | be verified through the banks app). | | We have an Android tablet at home for Chromecast. I just use | that. When we're out, I don't tend to make online purchases. | When push comes to shove, PayPal is a plan C. | | >- Navigating in your city (public transport + just finding | places by foot). | | I'm one of those people who always knows where North is, and | which directions main roads run in. I guess I'm just doing | whatever it is that people did 50 years ago? | | >- Anything else you've come across that assumes everyone has | a smartphone. | | I usually just ignore the COVID check-ins if they are phone | only. Only one person has stopped me and immediately didn't | care when I showed them my dumbphone. Apart from that, | literally nothing has caused an issue. | | >Also, what benefits have you found through ditching the | smartphone? | | I am not constantly plugged into an online hate machine. I | can look around and realise that, actually, people aren't all | that shit after all. | bovermyer wrote: | I use Fastmail for email and Dropbox for cloud storage. They're | not going anywhere any time soon. | freshpots wrote: | https://www.theverge.com/2014/4/11/5605734/dropbox-ceo-defen... | ChrisArchitect wrote: | Searching around here would be a good start | | then things like this | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30528205 | dividedbyzero wrote: | I'm still looking for an alternative e-mail provider that is more | privacy-conscious than Google, still works with ordinary IMAP and | is based in the EU so I get to actually benefit from EU data | protection. Haven't found one that ticks all boxes yet, but going | with a US company doesn't appear to change much as I'm not a US | citizen and hence fair game once my data is on US servers and I | guess it inevitably will end up there, and encryption schemes | that won't work with IMAP are too cumbersome (I tried); ideally | they also have contacts and calendar that work with the iOS/macOS | apps. Would love to de-google at least email on the domain I own | but it's not as easy as I'd expected. | sswaner wrote: | Did you consider ProtonMail? | dividedbyzero wrote: | I think they don't have IMAP, only some kind of bridge | application that won't work on mobile. I'm not willing two | have two different email apps in parallel, so I guess they | are out. | uhtred wrote: | I know you said based in the EU and Fastmail are based in | Australia I think, but they are great. Integrates easily with | email, calendar, and contacts clients using | imap/caldav/carddav. | | What makes you consider google to be privacy conscious? Aren't | they just scanning your emails 24/7 to profile you for | advertising? | dankwizard wrote: | I'd recommend against Australian based - There are laws that | state companies must be able to decrypt encrypted user data | if required, and for a backdoor to be in place if they | require access. | | A "Data Disruption Warrant" allows them to add, copy, delete | or modify your data. "Account Takeover Warrant" will remove | your access to an account but still allow them full access | mjochim wrote: | Don't know which providers you have considered, but one that | many around me use is posteo.de. Or gandi.net (based in | France). | [deleted] | salzig wrote: | What about https://mailbox.org/? I | Tmpod wrote: | I'll add Migadu to the existing suggestions ;^) | lizardactivist wrote: | Try Posteo, privacy is at the center of their whole e-mail | business. | srhngpr wrote: | I recently moved all emails on personal domains to Cloudflare | Email Routing [1]. It works flawlessly and you can setup | ProtonMail or whatever other email you want as your private | address that everything gets forwarded to without having to | reveal what the destination address is. | | For sending email, I setup an SMTP relay via Amazon SES. If you | verify your domain, you can send an email from any alias. | | This combination works great! | | [1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/email-routing-open-beta/ | xenonite wrote: | https://posteo.de/en | SamWhited wrote: | I believe Disroot is out of the EU and offers free (donation | based) email services: https://disroot.org | metadat wrote: | This has already been discussed extensively on HN in the past. | | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... | ChrisLTD wrote: | We get these posts every 60 days like clockwork. | DougMellon wrote: | I have been using Fastmail for roughly three years now and happy | with it. | | https://www.fastmail.com/gmail-alternative/ | uhtred wrote: | I really like the new Masked Email feature. | kingcharles wrote: | Been using them for, I think, 16 years. | barbazoo wrote: | You can have a support ticket with an actual human at Fastmail, | imagine that :) | toomuchtodo wrote: | +1 for Fastmail. They also championed the open JMAP standard | [1] [2]. | | [1] https://jmap.io/ | | [2] https://fastmail.blog/open-technologies/jmap-new-email- | open-... | xfour wrote: | The problem with the JMAP standard is that nothing seems to | actually implement it. There is their proxy which was built | in like a week and not updated and Cyrus. The latter which I | couldn't (not for lack of effort) implement, and went back to | dovecot which doesn't have an implementation. | awiesenhofer wrote: | Are you worried about Fastmail being Australian based in any | way? | DougMellon wrote: | Maybe for some, but it's never been a thought that's crossed | my mind. | mark_l_watson wrote: | I use gmail as my backup e-mail and Google drive as one of three | cloud storage services. I pay for GCP and YouTube ad-free and | YouTube Music. | | Great non-Google services I pay for are ProtonMail, Fastmail, | iCloud, and Office-365. | | I have played around with self-hosting options, but decided to | just use Cloud services, but don't rely on any single vendor. | yumraj wrote: | Curious why both Protonmail and Fastmail? | | How would you rate the two if one were to use just one of | those? | | Any experience with Zoho, if so would love your thoughts on | that too.. | delgaudm wrote: | I'm a Zoho One user and have generally been very happy with | them. They have a guide[0] on how to move off the Legacy | GSuite if that applies to you. | | [0] https://www.zoho.com/mail/help/gsuite-to-zoho-mail- | migration... | | Zoho Email has been very reliable, spam protection has been | satisfactory. Some minor things have bitten me, thier Zoom | competitor only records audio, not video, the spreadsheets | are sometimes slow to recalculate I trigger with F9 more than | I'd like. But the workdrive has been on parity with GDrive, | and the word Processor is more fully featured. | | Zoho are very responsive for support and you do interact with | a human. My "One" suite includes email, calendar, Gdocs | competitor, Gdrive competitor, and also pretty much | everything I need to run my small business (books, CRM, | website, appointments, webinars, courses, etc..) | DoctorOW wrote: | "Pay for" current tense? Why are you using that many email | services? | dotcoma wrote: | Tutanota for email. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-03-30 23:01 UTC)