[HN Gopher] USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021) ___________________________________________________________________ USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021) Author : sneakymichael Score : 302 points Date : 2022-04-04 20:29 UTC (2 hours ago) (HTM) web link (overengineer.dev) (TXT) w3m dump (overengineer.dev) | sandreas wrote: | If you also need a monitor for your office tasks, try the Dell | P2720DC. Its a Monitor including a USB-C Dock and it just works. | jeffbee wrote: | How much of the ethernet problems are due to these hubs and how | much is due to ethernet autoneg just sucking? On my mac mini with | whatever ethernet hardware they use, the link randomly negotiates | 10, 100, full duplex, half duplex, flow control on or sometimes | off. It's all coin tosses. | Nextgrid wrote: | Potentially, but the problem is that now you had no choice. | Back then, your laptop would come with a reputable (most likely | Intel) Ethernet controller that you would use so you had no | reason to buy an external one and bear the risk of getting a | shitty one. Now, more and more laptops don't have an Ethernet | controller, so you have no choice but to roll the dice and | churn through multiple dongles until you get one with a | controller that doesn't suck. | Saris wrote: | A good NIC doesn't have any of those issues. It all comes down | to their poor choices in what ethernet IC to use. | jeffbee wrote: | These Macs have Broadcom NICs so I'm not sure if it's quite | as simple as buying reputable brands. | pjsg wrote: | All I wanted for my Macbook Pro (with 4 USB-C) was to get one | USB-A and power passthrough. The USB-A would then get chained to | a genuine USB-A hub. | | After two years, I'm now on my third hub. The second one was made | by EUASOO and it died not being able to pass power through from | the USB charger (it also wouldn't let the Mac boot when it was | plugged in!). The first one (that I can't find) never really | worked at all. The third one is branded OMARS and has survived | maybe a month. On the plus side, it does actually let the Mac | boot. | tim-- wrote: | The Dell DA310 is the best all in one USB hub that I have ever | purchased. Works fantastic on Apple devices. Been using a number | of them for a decent amount of time. | | Sure, it also uses an RTL8153, and might need the Realtek drivers | to work (out of luck if you are on macOS 11+) but it was the | first USB hub that I used forever, where everything just worked. | | I don't use it for PD, I don't trust that on any hub. | vorpalhex wrote: | Adding my own to the list - | | + Belkin's thunderbolt dock - Ethernet is a mess and takes down | my network switch when my macbook goes to sleep. This seems like | a common issue. The fix is to "unplug ethernet when putting | laptop to sleep". | | + Anker's bigger usb c dock - actually this one works for me, | though I am using it with an XPS 15. | | + The spouse has a CalDigit 3. She says it has no issues. | holdenk wrote: | I like the tear-down approach, I wish it was more common for | these devices to say what chips they used. | orheep wrote: | I'm using a Kensington SD5700T and I have nothing but good to say | about it. | dwighttk wrote: | Seems like it should be Realtek RTL8153 and my slow descent into | madness. | ok123456 wrote: | I ran into a problem with one of these docks where the network | adapter would randomly start flooding the network if it was left | plugged in after the computer was disconnected. It didn't happen | every time, maybe once every few months. The guy who had this | thing would take off for the day a little before 5 and then total | chaos by the time he was pulling away in his car. | fooey wrote: | What I want to know is why no one makes a plain actual hub for | USB-C | | Not a dock, I don't want video, I don't want ethernet, I don't | want an sdcard reader, I don't need switching | | All I want is a powered 1 to many USB-C hub. Maybe my google-fu | is failing me, but I can't find this category of product and I | don't know why. | jmyeet wrote: | I've gone through a number of Thunderbolt docks over the last few | years. I tend to prefer docks to hubs because you tend to use | your laptop at several fixed positions, each of which might have | 1 or more monitors, a network cable, accessories (eg keyboard, | mouse, camera) and so on. It's easier to just plug in one cable | from the dock to the Macbook that'll do everything including | power it. | | A good example of this is the Caldigit TS4 [1]. All the ports you | could possibly want. Here's what I've learned. | | First and foremost, you'll be surprised at how many issues come | down to a given cable being bad. It's gotten to the point that | whenever I buy any sort of cable I typically buy 2 or even 3 at | the same time because I assume 1 will be bad or will go bad. | | Second, also to do with cables, don't use any cable to connect | from your dock to your laptop longer than a foot. These cables | that can take power and full bandwidth for displays and | accesories are the most technically demanding. Keep them as short | as possible. And again, have spares. | | Third, while I'm a traditionalist and like a wired connection | (and thus an Ethernet port), it's really optional now, | particularly at home where you have some control over the | network. Like I can get easily get 500+ Mbps over Wifi at home. | This of course assumes a sufficient Internet connection but if | you don't have that then Ehternet is even less necessary. | | If you have flickering display in particular, your first instinct | should be to blame the cable. | | [1]: https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-station-4/ | j_crick wrote: | > All the ports you could possibly want. | | No HDMI. | jmyeet wrote: | True. Personally, I never use HDMI but YMMV. You can of | course use a USB-C to HDMI cable however. | shitlord wrote: | I also prefer docks to hubs, for the same reasons you | mentioned. There are still some pretty big gaps which need to | be addressed before we can use a single cable for everything. | | First, Mac OS still doesn't support DisplayPort MST. If you | have two or more non-Thunderbolt monitors, you'll need to use | more than one port. | | Second, many companies require their employees to use tokens | such as Yubikeys, which are USB devices plugged into a laptop | operating on human touch. Even if you dock your laptop, you | will need to keep it within arm's reach so you can touch the | Yubikey. You could remove the Yubikey from the laptop and plug | it into your dock, but that defeats the purpose of docking. | | Ultimately, I just want more desk space, and I consider both | the dock and the laptop to be clutter. | ubercow13 wrote: | >If you have two or more non-Thunderbolt monitors, you'll | need to use more than one port | | Is this still true with TB4? TB4 docks can have 3 downstream | Thunderbolt ports and afaik each of them can power a single | DisplayPort display without MST being involved, and without | the display having to be a 'Thunderbolt' display, which I | think just meant that they had a TB3 hub in to allow | daisychaining. | CharlesW wrote: | > _If you have flickering display in particular, your first | instinct should be to blame the cable._ | | Any recommendations? I'm very happy with Monoprice's TB cables | (https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24721), which start at | $27 but are a _lot_ cheaper than Apple 's. | jmyeet wrote: | So for things like iPhone cables, I just buy whatever nylon- | braided cable Anker is selling now. I've been using Anker | cables for years now and they've been reliable. | | But for things like TB and DP cables, I don't have any | particular brand recommendations. I'm not sure it matters. I | just find something with a good rating on Amazon and buy 2 of | them. Whatever gets labelled as Amazon Basics has thus far | seemingly worked well enough. | fatnoah wrote: | I hear you on the cable. Even with the dock I got working, I | was still banging my head against the wall for a bit until I | tried a different Thunderbolt cable. | HNHatesUsers wrote: | btgeekboy wrote: | I mostly agree with this, but not necessarily the part about | the Ethernet connection. If you do a significant number of | meetings with video conferencing, you'll be much better off | with a wired connection where the latency and jitter are both | lower than over the typical WiFi. It's one of the easiest | things you can do to improve how your face and voice appear to | your colleagues. | [deleted] | synicalx wrote: | FWIW, I've been using a Samsung S65U monitor which has a built in | USB hub, Ethernet, audio out and connects downstream via USB-C | with something like 90w power delivery (it might be 65w, can't | remember). So far after a couple of months it's been absolutely | flawless with Macbooks and Windows laptops and in it's "high | resolution display" mode I can get 100hz even over USB-C. It does | only have 3 USB ports and plugging any kind of USB-A hub or port | multiplier in seems to freak it out a bit, so as far as I can | tell you're stuck with the 3 ports it comes with. | | LG and Dell also make similar USB-C hub type monitors as well, in | a few different sizes but AFAIK none of Ethernet ports on them if | that's important to you. | someotherperson wrote: | The whole time I was reading this I was hoping that the author | would have found something good at the end. This is unfortunate. | | I had the same initial hub as the author, and like the author, it | died. I think it was branded UGreen or something. I've currently | got a Baesus. Likely it's all the same trash. | | I had a Dell USB-C dock last year which worked quite well, but | it's a chunky thing that isn't great for travelling. | | I wish there was a similar guide that ends with finding a product | that actually performs. It would be great to see Apple or | something try to address this issue without having to buy three | dongles. | steveBK123 wrote: | Shitty USB-C is incredible. I have some docks/SD-card reader | devices that somehow only work when plugged in with side A facing | up despite the port allowing plugging in either way. | dervjd wrote: | If you're purchasing something to use permanently at your desk, | it's worth spending more for a Thunderbolt dock. Most USB-C hubs | are total crap. | | You'll get far faster transfer speeds, more ports, charging (and | at full speed), proper display output (dual 4K/60hz) and better | components/reliability. The CalDigit TS3 Plus[1] is what I've | used for several years - first with a 2019 Intel MBP and now with | my new 2021 M1 Pro MBP. It's pricey compared to a USB-C dongle, | but rock solid. | | [1]: https://amzn.to/38sFDZk | paisawalla wrote: | Their entire product line seems to be "currently unavailable" | on Amazon. | physhster wrote: | I have one of those Anker x-in-one hubs and it works well, minus | the Ethernet which it capped at 300Mbps due to [checks notes] a | USB 2.0 interconnection. | | Why?!? I ended up getting a separate sub $20 USB-C to Ethernet | adapter from a random Amazon brand called Uni. Get full gig, | every time despite it having a Realtek 8153 chip in it. So, there | might be more to it. | thedougd wrote: | Many laptops can't handle more than USB 2.0 when outputting | display over the same port. Those that can need a certain | protocol (too lazy to look up). There's a better protocol that | allows both, but now you're in the $100+ range of hub/docks | that can handle it. | codeulike wrote: | "What Shopping On Amazon Feels Like" | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQpxAvjD_30 | | I saw this a few months ago and it really lays bare a lot of the | crazy stuff we've just got used to with amazon | Saris wrote: | I feel like if you need ethernet, hdmi, DP, etc you should buy a | laptop that has those ports on it in the first place. | peepop6 wrote: | My dream laptop is something with the performance of the M1 but | with the modularity and freedom of old ThinkPads. | | I'm just hoping that by the time I stop using this M1 laptop | there will be alternatives because there's really nothing I | like about Apple other than their SoC. | dml2135 wrote: | Does anyone know if it's possible to drive three HD/QHD monitors | via a single thunderbolt port on an M1 Mac, and if any docks | exist that would support this use case? | | Many of these docks and Apple support documents say they support | dual displays at 4K resolutions, but it's difficult-to-impossible | to find information on # of displays supported at lower | resolutions. | noobee wrote: | I am using the USB-C 4K with an M1 Mac Pro (Pro CPU), driving 2 | _4k@60Hz (via DP) and 1_ 4k@30Hz (via HDMI): | https://plugable.com/collections/docking-stations/3x-display... | snvzz wrote: | This seems ripe for some Maker to design a reliable alternative | as OSHW. | | I'd buy it in an eyeblink, from whatever shop the author prefers | me to use. | Nextgrid wrote: | I wonder how much e-waste this USB-C bullshit idea generated. | It's not even a one-off, "early adopter" problem, considering | that even _now_ it 's hard to buy something that actually works | and you have to churn through many attempts before getting lucky. | | In contrast, I can't remember the last time I bought a USB-A, | HDMI or Ethernet cable/peripheral that didn't work, partly | because those specs are self-contained and simple enough that | even the cheapest manufacturer will typically do a good enough | job. | moduspol wrote: | I still get the same issue with HDMI cables when you want to do | more than 4K (like 4K60 4:4:4) with a cable that's more than | half a meter long. Cable length apparently significantly | impacts throughput. | | It's even worse on Amazon when a seller will list multiple | lengths of the same cable, as there'll be reviews about how | this works great for (e.g.) Dolby Vision on an Apple TV 4K, but | that was for the short cable. That doesn't imply the longer | version of the same cable will work for the same application. | npunt wrote: | Big picture, USB-C is set to considerably reduce ewaste given | that more and more consumer electronics products are | standardizing on it as a charging solution, eliminating custom | chargers and letting manufacturers get away with not including | a charger. This is likely to be accelerated by regulations in | the EU. The last time we had this level of standardization was | probably the AA battery. Not saying things are perfect (because | they obviously aren't) but computers - and especially finicky | docks and high performance cables - are just one part of a much | much bigger market for USB-C. | HNHatesUsers wrote: | legitster wrote: | I have never trusted one of these hubs to pass power through | after feeling how hot mine got. That seems to have prolonged the | life on mine. | | The decision of Amazon to allow foreign sellers directly on their | platform really degraded the quality of their offerings overall. | While I understand they had to to stay competitive with other | retailers, the race to the bottom on some of these offerings is | making me care about brand names more than I ever expected to. | thedougd wrote: | I have found that Macs are far less tolerant of USB-C devices | than other machines. I have crap dongles that work with PCs, | Chromebooks, even Chromecast and Nintendo's, but not correctly | with a Mac. I've seen the same with Intel and M1 Macs. | Roritharr wrote: | 7 years ago I wrote a comment, dismayed about the coming USB-C | insanity and was made fun of. | | Here we are. | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9645013 | spicybright wrote: | See you again in 7 years! :( | post_break wrote: | I'm currently using a UNI usb C hub that has worked flawlessly. I | think it's bespoke because the port layout is nothing like all | the clones and the reviews seem to show it's not flaky. | loudthing wrote: | Interesting how slow USB-C adoption has been so far, which is a | shame because the connector and concept are a great standard, but | the implementation of various busses (Thunderbolt, PCIExpress), | video adapters (Displayport, HDMI 2, 2.1), USB versions (trying | to be inclusive of USB 1 through 3 and all its flavors) is | maddeningly complex, and unappealing to the typical consumer. | NaturalPhallacy wrote: | OMG. That might explain why the piece of shit dongle my work | provided managed to bring my entire internet connection down for | all the devices on it by downloading multi-gig OS update from | Apple at a screaming 1.2MB/s (yes, one point two megabytes per | second) over my _symmetric gigabit_ internet connection. | | Somehow I couldn't ping google from my windows desktop connected | via ethernet, or access the web via my phone or ipad via wifi. | The router itself couldn't even ping anything. | | The weirdest thing was the update never so much as paused and it | wasn't using even 3% of my bandwidth. I'm not network engineer | enough to even guess how the fuck it did that. | | Once the update was done I just unplugged the Ethernet and used | built in wifi cause I needed the HDMI/USB 3 ports on it. Zero | problems thereafter. Internet was fine on every device. | | It was shaped just like the pieces of shit in this article. | jcelerier wrote: | even without USB-C, I'm under the impression that somewhere in | the stack there's an overflow: _every single_ of my USB3 hubs | after some time (a few weeks not being turned off) enter into | some locked state where they just don 't work anymore, on all of | my computers | ApolIllo wrote: | > I appear to be paying a lot of money for products that I could | buy for cheap on random websites is starting to piss me off a bit | at this point. | | The last 5+ years as an Amazon customer have me feeling this way. | | > Realtek RTL8153 | | Could the Realtek issues be related to power? | | I have a Tbolt dock which is powered using a DC barrel jack | (6.5amps @ 20V). The comparison is not great as the dock | (TBT3-UDZ) is not a USB C dock and uses the Intel i211 nic. | | The author appears to have found stability with the Anker | PowerExpand 8-in-1, which has the buck converter with power | management components. | | I've had terrible experiences with the Satechi Multiport Adapter | V2 and ICY BOX USB-C type adapters. | | I suspect that the issues can typically narrow down with any dock | to bandwidth or power. | bombcar wrote: | Power is a real concern - and if you have something pushing | lots of pixels or data you should be suspicious of it if it | doesn't have a power brick. | ChrisMarshallNY wrote: | This exemplifies the issues I see with a lot of this stuff. | | The other day, I was looking at TB4 hubs, and noticed that Every. | Single. One. had the exact same layout of ports, with different | cases around them. The price range was damn wide, too. | | The different one was CalDigit. That does seem to be a good | company; though pricey. | randomblock1 wrote: | > I appear to be paying a lot of money for products that I could | buy for cheap on random websites is starting to piss me off a bit | at this point. | | It seems like if you bought an accessory that's just a PCB (which | means excluding headphones, storage, etc) within the last 5 | years, there's like a 90% chance of it being dropshipped. | | At this point, I've just given up and ordered right from | AliExpress. I can't even name any good accessory manufacturers | off the top of my head. | Doctor_Fegg wrote: | I have a USB-C hub for my Macbook which isn't any of these (it's | a "VMade") but looks exactly the same. | | It's a heap of crap. (Or, at least, the conjunction of it and | Monterey is a heap of crap.) If I leave it plugged in when the | Mac goes to sleep, eventually the Mac will kernel panic and force | a restart. The ethernet just randomly dies, such that I now run | the Mac permanently off wifi even though I have a superb fibre | connection. The USB connections do at least work, but that's | about all I can say of it. | Spooky23 wrote: | You get what you pay for! Look at the HP USB & thunderbolt | dock. They are pretty stable. | | In my experience (my team has deployed about 50k in 3 years), | the thunderbolt ones are more reliable, even if the laptop | doesn't have thunderbolt. | mulderc wrote: | I must be some USB-C unicorn as I can't think of ever having any | issues. | | I have had a couple of USB-C hubs and they have worked for both | me and my partner. All my work machines are USB-C only and | literally the only issue I can remember is where in one | conference room the USB-C to HDMI output only went to 2 of the 3 | screens on the walls but I think that was something unrelated to | the USB-C connection. | | Now I don't push my USB-C hubs hard but did run ethernet, HDMI, | and USB-A device or two pretty often and everything worked as | expected. | cortesoft wrote: | The author's main complaint is that the network was being | downgraded to 100baseTX. If you aren't doing a lot of heavy | local network activity, you might not notice if you are being | downgraded. | mulderc wrote: | Since much of my USB-C hub usage was during COVID and work at | home, I did do a ton of speed tests and don't remember seeing | any issues with being downgraded but if it was random then I | might not have noticed. | JonChesterfield wrote: | Lenovo dock gen 2 here. Running power, three monitors, ethernet, | misc low bandwidth usb peripherals. Totally robust on windows and | linux, I don't have an osx box at present. | | It was not competitively priced and I feel a lot better about | that after this post. | drzoltar wrote: | Sad to see Anker on the list. I used to think of them as a pretty | reliable electronics manufacturer in a sea of low quality | chargers and hubs. | InTheArena wrote: | I have their TB4 dock. It works well with a Intel mac. Not so | well with a M1 mac. | | Might be a issue on the other end of the thunderbolt connector. | spyspy wrote: | For what it's worth I have the Anker 777 I bought with my WFH | budget and it's been fine with my M1. | | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0928W3XHD | kmeisthax wrote: | Oh hey, Realtek networking. That's _the_ thing that made me give | up on trying to Hackintosh back in the Snow Leopard days. The | weird ported-from-Linux kexts that existed at the time would just | give up and kill the network after a few GBs transmitted - not | even enough to download contemporary Xcode. Glad to hear even the | official experience with these chips is just as bad /s | LeoPanthera wrote: | This is a weird post, because as far as I can tell, his final | purchase (the Anker hub) never went wrong. He just took it apart | for the hell of it. | | Shouldn't the summary be "Hey, this Anker hub which looks quite | different to the other two is actually pretty good"? | Evidlo wrote: | Why do people buy laptops that don't have this stuff already on | it? | | I run an engineering course and it's almost comical how often | students have to set aside their $2000 Macbooks and use the | desktop workstations because they forgot their dongles at home. | | My Thinkpad has 6 USB ports (2 USB 3.0), SDCard, DisplayPort, | VGA, ethernet and also e-sata and Firewire which I've never used. | hpb42 wrote: | I got a new laptop for work that has: 1 USB3 type A, 1 USB-C, 1 | Thunderbolt4 in USB-C connetor, 1 HDMI, 1 audio jack, and 1 | Power connector. No ethernet. My boss bought me a caldigit | element hub to be able to connect mouse and keyboard... We were | all disappointed when we realized there was not enough "normal" | USB ports. | kuschku wrote: | The T470 is IMO the percect thinkpad. | | 3x USB 3.0 1x Thunderbolt 3 (with USB-PD support) Lenovo | Charging port Lenovo Docking port HDMI, SDcard, Ethernet, SIM, | SmartCard | | It works with the oldest thinkpad docks and the newest | thunderbolt docks at the same time. | loudthing wrote: | Honest answer: Apple is a lifestyle brand, however they manage | to offer a superior product to the layman because they have | tight control over both hardware and software codevelopment. In | my experience, people tend to also like Apple hardware because | Apple stores are ubiquitous, so when you need a repair done, | you just take it to your local mall and get it fixed rather | than mailing it away to Lenovo and hoping for the best. | | Out of curiosity, in your engineering course, what are students | expected to used to their own computers for? In my experience, | any engineering course with labs that would require dongles | supply desktop computers anyway. Your school doesn't have | desktops in the classroom right? What equipment are you | interfacing with that would be easily both mac and pc | compatible anyway? | bastardoperator wrote: | I had this issue too. I switched to a dell monitor that used | USB-C for video and then plugged my other useful devices into the | monitor. I have two other monitors that use USB-C too, but I | opted for a DVI to USB-C for the two monitors. I still have two | available USB-C ports and if I'm in a bind I use one of these | crap adapters via USB-C but that hasn't happened in quite some | time. | Jhsto wrote: | If you use a laptop with an external monitor, a better idea is to | get a premium monitor which handles charging, video, and data | transfer of USB devices connected to the monitor for you. This | allowed me to get rid off the wonky USBC hubs, but before my | employer got me a Dell monitor I didn't know that a single USBC | connection can deliver all three. | certifiedloud wrote: | I had several dongles and wires handing from my laptop until I | read your comment just now. thanks! | FemmeAndroid wrote: | I went this route. I have a supposedly good Dell monitor where | one of my devices will connect via video but not recognize | attached USB devices 4 out of 5 times so I need to plug and | unplug a bunch of times every day. It can take over 15 attempts | on a bad day. Never again. | cortesoft wrote: | This doesn't help for travel. | fivea wrote: | > If you use a laptop with an external monitor, a better idea | is to get a premium monitor which handles charging, video, and | data transfer of USB devices connected to the monitor for you. | | I made this mistake, and I ended up with a grossly overpriced | monitor which fails to charge a MacBook Pro and whose video | through USBC support is hit-and-miss, in the sense that it | doesn't always work. | theta_d wrote: | I've had this Thunderbolt Doc for over a month now and I love it. | https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbolt-dock | eckza wrote: | One of the biggest reasons that I went through the trouble of | switching to a Surface Book 3 + Surface Dock 2 was to make _damn | sure_ that my desk docking station setup worked well. (Plus, I'm | a sucker for the Surface Magsafe-ripoff connector.) | | I'm running a Dell 27" 4K monitor and a ViewSonic 15" portable | 1080p monitor along with the internal display full-time, with | both external displays plugged in via USB-C on the Surface dock; | and it's been reasonably reliable. | | I don't have any other USB-C peripherals plugged in to the dock, | and I haven't tried a fourth display; but so far, so good, no | complaints. | mherdeg wrote: | Kind of surprised the author didn't describe getting refunds -- | the behavior here seems like it should have triggered European | consumer protections. | moritonal wrote: | If you want a decent dock you have to spend a bit of money. I | went through this pain before accepting the cost and buying a | CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub[1]. Run's two 4k displays at | 60Hz, any peripheral and charges my laptop. | | So good I bought a second. | | 1. https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/ | nerdawson wrote: | As I was scrolling through the article, I was hoping to see the | TS3 amongst the docks torn down. | | I was happy with mine until I started using an extra display | with it recently. The main display is hooked up via | DisplayPort. The problem arose when I added a second display | over USB C. | | For some reason, when I plug the monitor into the dock, there's | a faint electrical noise. If I plug the monitor into a USB C | port on the laptop instead, it's perfectly quiet. Maybe I | should attempt HDMI instead. Either way it's frustrating. | steveBK123 wrote: | Basically one of the few that actually does what it says on the | box reliably. | | Even the OWC brand one I had was flakey, at similar $200-400 | price point. | xattt wrote: | I ended up getting a Lenovo USB-C Gen 2 hub a couple of years | ago, and it's still on sale. Also very satisfied. | | I'm able to switch my personal (Lenovo) and work (Dell) | laptops, mostly without issue. I say without issue because the | Dell/Intel only supports HBM2 so won't do two monitors if one | of them is more than 1080p. | | I settled on using the HDMI out from the laptop to split the | difference in frustration and convenience. | conradev wrote: | CalDigit's TS3, TS3 Plus, and now the TS4 are all incredible | products. | | I have used them with my MacBooks over the years as well as my | gaming PC (ASUS ProArt B550 motherboard), and they are the most | reliable part of my desktop setup. They are not just reliable, | but reliably fast. I get full gigabit ethernet speed, fast USB | transfer speeds, and fast SD card reading, without fail, every | time. | bsder wrote: | For the sake of anecdata, I found that even the Caldigit docks | fail to work on the Intel Macbook Pros (I only have a single | data point about the M1s and they didn't work there either). | When I hook even basic things like my keyboard and mouse up to | the USB A ports, things work for about 20 minutes or so (varies | widely) and then the USB A ports go dead requiring a reboot to | restore. | | This is a known failure mode, but it doesn't hit everybody. It | is _solely_ an Apple software fault as older OSs do not exhibit | it. I _really_ wish I knew what the issue was. | | On the plus side, I found this so infuriating that I finally | threw all in and switched to Linux full-time (Lenovo X1 Carbon | with a ThinkPad dock) and haven't looked back since. | | Side note: practically every thunderbolt dock I have works fine | with every x86 laptop I have running either Windows or Linux | (including the Caldigit!). YMMV. | iends wrote: | My entire team and a few other developers I work with have | had zero issues with CalDigit TS3 on Intel Macs. At least 10 | TS3s over the period of several years. | zeristor wrote: | Don't you mean "so good you bought the company"? | buggeryorkshire wrote: | Good to see you again Victor! | whatever1 wrote: | What network controller does it have? Is it the same realtek ? | whatever1 wrote: | Replying to myself. From a tear down it seems like the TS3 | plus version uses an intel network controller! | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f6Zs1JyZBQ | TheNewAndy wrote: | It is missing Ethernet, which seems to be important to the | author. | | Having heard positive things about caldigit, I got their USB-C | Pro Dock and I get frequent screen blanking with my M1 Mac, and | often some of the USB ports fail to work. I don't use the | ethernet port, but I think it is a Realtek (so likely the same | thing the author is complaining about) | | I have spoken to caldigit support and so far they have replaced | the dock once, and now have gone pretty quiet. | dntrkv wrote: | Their TS3 dock supports ethernet. I've had mine for well over | 3 years now and it still works great. Can't say the same for | the 5+ other docks I had before this one. | CharlesW wrote: | > _It is missing Ethernet, which seems to be important to the | author._ | | CalDigit's TS4 has Ethernet (2.5 GbE). I've been a happy TS3 | user for years. | | https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-station-4/ | iends wrote: | I have a TS3, but it's been hard to get a second or a TS4 | lately. | manyxcxi wrote: | I've got the TS 3 Plus dock (which has Ethernet) and it has | been working flawlessly on my 2020 MBP (Intel) the entire | time. I _think_ there was a firmware update in the early days | that unlocked the 85 or 90 watt charging. I had heartburn | about the price, but it's been worth every penny. | | I'm not pushing 4K though, so mileage may vary. I've got a | 27" TB2 Apple Cinema Display via TB2 to USB-C and a Dell via | Display port. | | As a guy working with Raspberry Pi and 3D printers a lot in | my free time it is SO NICE to have the card reader right up | front and easy to access. I also love un/plugging just one | cord when I'm on the go. | moritonal wrote: | For the Ethernet I enjoyed the fact the dock was clean and | unopinionated, just providing USB ports so I could use a USB- | C-to-Ethernet adapter. | | Your comments about the Screen Blanking sound bad and are are | likely correct, I only have an Intel Mac to compare. | TheNewAndy wrote: | I have used the dock with windows and Linux machines and | seen solar issues btw. So I would expect the same with an | Intel mac | watermelon0 wrote: | Does it have an audible coil whine? | | I've tested 5+ TS3 Plus docks, and all of them have a coil | whine, which can be heard in a quiet room, without playing | any music. | | Sometimes I like to work in silence, and the coil whine | really bothers me. | conradev wrote: | I usually can detect coil whines to an annoying degree, but | I don't hear one in my TS3 Plus. Maybe your ears are more | sensitive than mine! | generallee5686 wrote: | I've had my ts3 for a couple years now. I just noticed a | pretty bad coil whine on mine lately. I'm not sure if it's | always been there and my environment's changed or the | device just suddenly started making the noise. | cmckn wrote: | I got a thunderbolt 4 dock from Razer[0] that has all the | bits and bobs (and it looks really nice). Almost bankrupted | me, but as the GP says, this is just the reality at this | point. | | [0]: https://www.razer.com/gaming-pc-accessories/razer- | thunderbol... | serverlessmom wrote: | Opened this for the express purpose of plugging caldigit. A | device that improves on these other devices with a massive | upgrade in engineering. Full teardown | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f6Zs1JyZBQ&ab_channel=Camer... | wwalexander wrote: | I'd just like to chime in with the Kensington SD5700T [1]. I've | tried a CalDigit TS3 Plus, an Anker PowerExpand 13-in-1, and | the Kensington has by far been the most reliable. | | It doesn't have built-in HDMI/DisplayPort out, but it's easy to | buy the appropriate cable to connect to your monitor (I | recommend Club3D [2]). Especially if you're trying to use an | HDMI 2.1 or DisplayPort 1.4 display, as I've found most built- | in ports on these hubs don't support these latest standards or | have weird issues with them. | | It also has a nice mounting bracket [3] that lets you hide the | cable mess under your desk or behind your monitor. | | [1] https://www.kensington.com/p/products/device-docking- | connect... | | [2] https://www.club-3d.com/en/cat/cable/usb_type_c/1606/301/ | | [3] https://www.kensington.com/p/products/device-docking- | connect... | Sophistifunk wrote: | For the sake of anecdata, I have a CalDigit TB3 dock that's | been working _reasonably well_ for a few years now, which is | actually pretty high praise given the competition, and I 'll | probably stick with CD when I get around to replacing it. | LocalPCGuy wrote: | I don't like the idea of having to chain multiple dongles(I | know the advantages, being able to choose a good network | adapter, etc.) but I'd still pay decent money for a single | device that I can leave on my desk with everything plugged in | without the need for additional interconnects. (I do see that | they make actual hubs as well, might check those out.) | [deleted] | morninglight wrote: | My kid wanted a USB hub, so I got this at the local $5 store. | Have not heard any complaints. I am sooo lucky. | | https://www.fivebelow.com/products/4-port-type-c-charging-hu... | Nextgrid wrote: | That's USB 2 though - it's literally a USB-A hub with the | connector swapped for a USB-C one. This speaks volumes about | the beauty of USB 2.0 and the USB-A specs that they withstood | decades of unscrupulous manufacturers; they're so simple that | it's literally more effort to screw it up than to do it | properly, so even the cheapest option will typically work. | morninglight wrote: | I know that, and you know that, and by the time my kid | figures it out.... | | I'll have saved enough to send him to College. | | . | dogma1138 wrote: | You can get them on the cheap as you can buy enterprise Dell/HP | USB-C/TB for like $50-70 on EBay... | | Do not waste your money on high end consumer stuff, the | enterprise stuff is better and the market is flooded with | disposed units... | alx__ wrote: | Yeah I've been playing this game for the past two years with the | MacBook Pro. | | Most work fine for a minute and then after a few months seems to | get cranky and some input will start failing :/ | | Currently using that Anker hub mentioned. Probably the best of | the bunch but that's not saying much. Lots of little annoyances. | | One thing I found was putting the low powered USB A devices on a | smaller hub "stick" that's USB-C and daisy chained to the Anker | one. This has been the most stable setup. | | But usually about twice a month stability will wane I'll have to | unplug everything, restart computer and then plug them all back | in one by one. | somethoughts wrote: | It feels like Apple should have done/should do an official in- | house docking system instead of outsourcing such a critical | component in the overall system/value proposition. | bayindirh wrote: | Actually they have a simple USB-C break-out adapter which has a | USB-A port, an HDMI port and power-in. It works extremely well. | You can connect it to a USB3.0 hub to get a lot of ports. I | leave it at my office desk for day to day operation. | | If you want a proper docking station, a higher end Dell monitor | [0] will do with USB-C, display daisy chain and USB-PD. It'll | enable single cable connectivity to anything you care, sans | ethernet, which can be attached to the monitor's USB hub, if | you really need. | | For my mobility needs, I use a Kingston Nucleum [1] since I | don't care about Ethernet, but about fast card readers. It also | supports 60W USB-PD, which is ample for a MacBook Air M1. That | thing is really high quality. | | [0]: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell- | ultrasharp-27-4k-u... | | [1]: https://www.kingston.com/en/memory-card-readers/nucleum- | usb-... | kevin_thibedeau wrote: | There's nothing like having to do Johnny Mnemonic cosplay | because a manufacturer won't let their product be sullied | with holes. | bayindirh wrote: | I don't think a MacBook Air M1 has a lot places to add | ports [0]. The latest generation of MacBook Pros bring a | lot of the ports back [1], so that point doesn't hold | anymore. | | Also, of all the MacBook Air users I know, I'm the heaviest | user in terms of processor load, and given that it's the | company computer, it wouldn't be my first choice for a | personal MacBook (in fact, I have a personal MacBook Pro). | | At the end of the day, having a featherweight computer | which can do all my work related tasks and some heavier | stuff and doesn't needs its charger and ports most of the | time is really a spoiling thing. However, for heavy | development and photographic work, nothing beats on board | ports and a bigger screen. | | [0]: https://www.apple.com/v/macbook- | air/n/images/specs/mba_charg... | | [1]: https://images.macrumors.com/t/MsiVifkTbdhdqh2z2tvJZXI | uH80=/... | smoldesu wrote: | I actually agree. Normally I'm against proprietary ports, but | vendors that have done this in the past have traditionally | killed a lot of birds with one stone. Both Dell and Lenovo's | docking solutions are fantastic, and don't require expensive | hardware to manufacture docks. As a result, you can get the | full IO of your computer extended to a dock with 10+ ports for | less than $30. Pretty great solution IMO. | zamadatix wrote: | The downside is all of the hardware ends up inside the laptop | where you still pay for it and now can't upgrade it | separately or reuse it with another laptop. Not that I ever | remember Dell/Lenovo docks being $30 new anyways. | tinus_hn wrote: | And if one of the tiny wires breaks and causes a short, not | only can you cause a fire but you also damage the connector | in the laptop which can only be fixed by replacing the | motherboard, which is more expensive than the laptop itself | and not covered by warranty. | somethoughts wrote: | I remember I did receive a Dell dock complete with a spring | mounted adapter for the actual laptop. | | I wasn't thinking that though - I was thinking something | like the ones reviewed in the article but perhaps with a | Apple Thunderbolt connector to prevent them from having to | support Windows PC users. | zamadatix wrote: | You can get e.g. a Dell PR02X (traditional docking | station/port replicator) for $30 or less the last couple | of years now that they aren't compatible with new models | but they used to also be upwards of $100 new before that | ~5 years ago. There was a similar price decrease story | after the prior generation of proprietary dock was | deprecated as well and you'd see the same thing if the | current type-C USB/Thunderbolt docks were replaced with a | new physical interface. Has nothing to do with the | hardware design and everything to do with excess | inventory of an old product. | | There is no such thing as "Apple Thunderbolt" just | "Thunderbolt". It was developed by Intel, Apple was just | involved early in development with Intel and first to | market >10 years ago. Most Windows laptops come with | Thunderbolt and both Dell/Lenovo offer Thunderbolt Docks | just as much as USB-C docks. Being Thunderbolt or not has | no impact on whether or not the dock will support | Windows/Linux vs macOS. | tossoutaccimade wrote: | Totally agree. I keep a dock for my thinkpad t420 hooked up | to 2 27" 1440p iMacs in target display mode. Pop it in, the | imacs get my laptop's workspaces. I keep a dell laptop docked | to my tv as a streaming box. Both of these setups give me no | trouble, and all of these things were being thrown out by my | university. | rhinoceraptor wrote: | Technically they have one, it's built into the displays. | Obviously it's not a great solution if you want to use your | existing monitors. | moduspol wrote: | They do--they just include the monitor as part of it. That | seems to have been the vision since at least 2011 [1]. | | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Thunderbolt_Display | btgeekboy wrote: | That was discontinued over 6 years ago. In 2022, it isn't a | great monitor, either. | moduspol wrote: | They do have a replacement consumer monitor in 2022 [1], | but in the meantime, they were selling and supporting the | LG UltraFine 5K [2]. | | I haven't bought the new studio display, but the | Thunderbolt Display was great and the LG UltraFine 5K is, | too. Used both as daily drivers (and docking stations) for | years. I only haven't bought the new one because that LG | one is still going strong. | | Regardless: my point is that this certainly seems to be | "the vision." You don't need a docking station because your | monitor functions as one. If I had to guess, they probably | think normal people don't want to buy a docking station and | then deal with a series of poorly-integrated peripherals. | | [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/apple-studio- | display/stan... [2] https://support.apple.com/en- | us/HT210205 | tristor wrote: | I've been through this rodeo myself. I've been happily using for | years docks made by Hyper over USB-C (and now over TB4). When on | the go, I use the official Apple dongle for HDMI and USB. If I | need more ports, Hyper and Anker both make USB-C hubs that are | very solid and actually work. | | I totally agree with the author, most of the products on the | market are garbage, and many are the same garbage with different | names. To a large degree to solve this issue you need to stop | shopping on Amazon. Almost everything listed on Amazon not made | by Anker doesn't work. Either buy directly for Apple, or buy from | directly from small companies that focus on solving accessories | for the Apple market (e.g. Rain Design, 12South, Hyper, CalDigit, | et al). This is definitely not limited to USB-C hubs, and | encompasses nearly all products. Buying direct from high-quality | companies is always better than trying your luck with random | brand-named Aliexpress specials sold through Amazon. | rcthompson wrote: | I've found the Macbook hubs from Hyper to be quite reliable | over the years. And in addition, they're the only ones that can | output to 2 monitors at once (one TB3 port, one HDMI) with a | reasonable resolution and refresh rate, AND allow you to plug a | charger into the non-TB3 Type C port. I haven't found anything | else with similar specs in the same form factor. | austhrow743 wrote: | Or if you don't want to fork out for premium products, at least | go straight to aliexpress and pay cheap prices for your cheap | products. | trauco wrote: | The Satechi one creates "broadcast storms" [1] that messed up my | home network if left it unplugged from the computer but powered | on and with the ethernet cable connected. | | I have an Anker one now, I guess I should expect the same. | | I also have a Dell D6000, which is rarely reviewed but has been | solid. | | [1] | https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/an3nyf/pass_thoug... | LocalPCGuy wrote: | I had similar issues with one of these USB-C hubs (not sure if | it was Satechi or just a similar PCB inside) - just shutting | the lid of my laptop was enough to cause it to start going nuts | but only after the Mac actually stopped talking to the hub at | all. That was a fun one to figure out, I'd lose internet some | small period of time (but not always the same amount) after | switching from my work Mac to my PC, both hardwired. | InTheArena wrote: | And sadly, I own two out of three of those. | | It's worth noting that the Realtek is crap, even ignoring the OSX | driver situation. I have a few of the 2.5GBe dongles to make my | synology speak 2.5gb/s (because a modern NAS is 2020 should have | more then gigabit, but doens't because reasons). The driver in | Linux is hot mess. I seem to have much more luck then some with | it. | jandrese wrote: | Realtek chips have been garbage since the 90s. But they have | also been the cheapest option for just as long so you see them | absolutely everywhere, especially with third party accessories. | It is typical to see hardware errata documents several pages | thick from them, if they provide support at all. Getting the | drivers working well is pure masochism as you have to deal with | the terrible documentation (if you have it at all) and the | abysmal quality of the hardware. | | But they have turned their garbage products into a multi- | billion dollar company and that's all that really matters in | the world of business. | | Whichever chip is the cheapest is the one that every accessory | maker will use. It is rare that a company can break through | with a product that advertises higher quality components but at | a higher price, or they end up with such a massive premium on | what should be a modest increase in BoM that the value | proposition still doesn't make sense. | | As a sidenote this is exactly what I expected to happen as | laptop manufacturers started aggressively cutting ports from | their machines. You have to switch to dongles, but dongles | _suck_ and the total experience is much worse than having a | laptop that is 2mm thicker. | ridiculous_fish wrote: | Do you know of any alternative to the RTL8153 (1Gbe) and | RTL8156 (2.5GBe) chips? The only competitors seems to be | AQC111U, which appear to not be supported on ARM Macs, and | AX88179 whose support appears spotty as well. Any experience | with either? | hvs wrote: | We've only had any luck with Elgato Thunderbolt (not just USB-C) | hubs with Macs. Everything else has had issues. | filoleg wrote: | is it just me or is Elgato Thunderbolt 3 Pro case looks pretty | much exactly like Belkin Thunderbolt 3 Dock Pro case[0] (with | the main difference between Belkin having a USB-C port | replacing one of the USB-A ports, and the SD card reader and | headphone jack being left-right swapped)? It looks the same | even down to the curves and materials/colors, and even the | naming is that close. | | No complaints about the quality of the product btw, I have been | using one myself for almost 2 years. I just found it pretty | interesting that even the most recommended hub ends up | potentially being just as suspect in terms of "who made it". | | 0. https://www.belkin.com/us/business/hubs-and-docks-for- | busine... | fatnoah wrote: | When work from home started, I went down this road of madness, | and have a drawer full of docks that didn't work properly for my | Macbook (properly is defined as works as a USB hub, connection to | wired network, charges my Macbook, and lets me connect an | external 4k display @ 60Hz). A Plugable Thunderbolt 3 Dock has | carried me for 2 years so far. | kurthr wrote: | I am assuming you're using Caldigit? I've had good enough luck, | I'd consider their TS4 hub. | fatnoah wrote: | The brand of my dock is Plugable. | olyjohn wrote: | I also have a Plugable TB3 dock. I don't know if it's the dock, | or the laptop... but MacOS won't remember my monitor layout at | all. Even if the computer just goes to sleep, it wakes up and | forgets my monitor layout. Gotta fix it multiple times a day | sometimes. Sometimes one of the monitors doesn't show up at | all, and I gotta unplug and plug it back in. Sometimes doing | that, the computer will actually get the proper monitor layout | on like the 4th try. | fatnoah wrote: | Interesting. I have no issues like that. I've even changed | jobs, so I'm actually on my second Macbook with this hub, and | my Mac remembers window positions and monitor layouts every | time (knocking on wood so I don't jinx myself). I rarely | power all the way down, so usually it's usually just sleep | mode for me. I am using the USB-C connection for the monitor | if that makes a difference. | iblaine wrote: | I also have a Plugable Thunderbolt 3 Dock, currently powering | two displays | iblaine wrote: | I had 4 monitors going w/Plugable products. I've since gone | down to 2 and I would recommend Plugable to anyone looking for | dual monitors on a mac. | Falell wrote: | My understanding is that the problem with high | bandwidth/resolution setups over displayport (which may not be | your use case) is _in your mac_ , not in your hub. Older | comment thread here | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29214726 | fatnoah wrote: | I'm totally not suprised by this. I'm using USB-C between the | hub and the monitor, and that seems to be working fine, so I | basically haven't thought too much about it. | vinhboy wrote: | > It honestly feels like no matter what you buy, you get more or | less the same hardware, and you're most likely getting a heavily | overpriced product just because some company printed their logo | on it. | | Isn't this like a known thing? Almost all peripherals on Amazon | will have dozens of the exact same form-factor with different | logos on it. You just buy the one that is the perfect | intersection of costs, positive reviews, and shipping time. The | assumption is that they all come from the same factory in China | anyways. | ugjka wrote: | if you go for cheap, you might get someone selling stuff with | manufacturing defects | aendruk wrote: | The most frustrating part is that I want _no_ logo. It's the | worst of both worlds; no brand reputation, yet still covered in | ads. | reaperducer wrote: | While not the ideal solution to your needs, I've found that | Brasso does a great job of removing logos from electronics | with a little elbow grease. | | I've used it on my LG television, my Levoit air cleaning | machines, and other devices. | avar wrote: | Or acetone a.k.a. the pure form of nail polish remover. | blowski wrote: | A lot of the time, sure, this is exactly what happens. But | other times, there is a distinct difference in quality. How do | you know when you're in situation A or B? You can't trust the | reviews. You can't even trust that the seller will send you the | advertised product half the time. | wnevets wrote: | Amazon is just the dollar store on the internet where every | product has 4+ stars. | jvanderbot wrote: | Just to expand on this: I suspect and have been told that | almost all powertools follow this model. The markup for most | tools in the same class is essentially branding only. | manyxcxi wrote: | It's _mostly_ kinda sorta like that. There are broad groups | that are basically the same; Craftsman and Dewalt being owned | by Black and Decker, for instance. But it's a crazy web | depending on particular tools or features it goes from a | couple root manufacturers to a dozen or so. But there's a lot | of BS. | | Pro Tool Reviews did a big break down [0] a while ago that | was very eye opening for me. It could easily be out of date | by now but I had no clue how deep the groupings went at the | time. | | [0] https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers- | who-... | bombcar wrote: | This is mainly because power-tool quality across the board | has greatly increased - once you're into a "band" they're | much the same, though there are differences it's usually one | of "focus" not of quality. | | If you're dealing with off-brand or no-brand tools, you can | still end up with something entirely usable but crappy. The | prices usually tell most of the story. | ineedasername wrote: | > _costs, positive reviews, and shipping time_ | | Yes, this. There are a few exceptions, thing like ssd drives, | ram, sd cards, etc which I buy from companies that I know | manufacture their own. For random peripherals, I just make sure | it's Amazon Prime so there won't be any hassle if/when I need | to return them. | | I make an exception for earphones. Unless you're buying off- | brand, you can be pretty certain that you're not getting white | labelled. I'm listening to an audio book on Shure TW2's w/ | se215 heads attached... not much chance that's white labelled. | Same for the lower quality but also lower profile Galaxy Buds | Live that I use as well. | djrogers wrote: | This may sound a bit pedantic here, but this statement: | | " I'm writing this on an Apple MacBook Pro, and all I got was | four lousy USB-C ports" | | Is wildly inaccurate, as the author demonstrates in his | conclusions where he explains that he's settled on a Thunderbolt | hub. | | Yes, they're more expensive, and yes, they're harder to find, but | the fact is, for this type of use USB-C is kinda junky, and | Thunderbolt is a much better option. | dijit wrote: | This is not the conclusion. | | the Dell TB16 is just about the worst docking station I've ever | used and that was Thunderbolt 3, and their USB-C equivalent | (WD16 iirc) worked flawlessly. | | Likely if you tore down the TB16 you would find the chip | mentioned in TFA. | olyjohn wrote: | I've dealt with a number of these docks. And yeah, it's a | Realtek NIC on them, and it's a total piece of crap. Endless | issues with these docks, firmware updates, new drivers | constantly... None of it ever helps. | | I tried using it on my Mac. But it's on some kind of an Apple | blacklist and won't work on Macs. There was some way to | enable it, by turning off system protection or some shit... | But even then, you could not get all the functionality. | AshamedCaptain wrote: | I have never gotten the TB16 to work on anything other than | Dells of around the same era. I don't think it's Apple | blacklisting it, but rather the dock whitelisting things. | AshamedCaptain wrote: | Yes, the TB16 does use a RTL8153, but so does the WD16. This | is the USB part which is common to both. | ApolIllo wrote: | I agree - Thunderbolt is the way to go. It's typically 2 - 3x | the price of a USB-C dock, but it's well worth it for me. | | I have the TBT3-UDV and caldigit TS4 TBolt dock. They both rely | on DC power supplies and higher quality components (intel NIC, | for example). Both have been very stable over the last year for | the TS4 and 3 yrs for the TBT3. | bombcar wrote: | Thunderbolt _is_ the way to go - my AKiTiO Thunder3 Dock Pro | has been doing fine driving monitors and 10GB /s ethernet. | Kalanos wrote: | Even with a 2014 macbook I still have to run an oldschool USB hub | PaulHoule wrote: | I never saw a multifunctional USB 3 hub (that has anything more | than USB 3 sockets) where all the features worked on Windows. | | One could blame: Windows, crap hardware from Dell, and crap hub | hardware. I think it is all three. | vel0city wrote: | I'm currently using a Lenovo Hybrid USB-C dock in Windows. Dual | displays, ethernet, USB-3, USB-C, USB 2.0, audio, all working | fine and have been for >2 years. Its worked with several | different models of laptops without having to manually install | any additional drivers and software. | | As a note though, its a DisplayLink dock. There's definitely | performance implications on using a DisplayLink device versus | USB-C alternate mode, but on the other hand its never had | problems with the several Windows devices I've used it with. | | https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/dock... ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-04-04 23:00 UTC)