[HN Gopher] USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)
        
       Author : sneakymichael
       Score  : 302 points
       Date   : 2022-04-04 20:29 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (overengineer.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (overengineer.dev)
        
       | sandreas wrote:
       | If you also need a monitor for your office tasks, try the Dell
       | P2720DC. Its a Monitor including a USB-C Dock and it just works.
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | How much of the ethernet problems are due to these hubs and how
       | much is due to ethernet autoneg just sucking? On my mac mini with
       | whatever ethernet hardware they use, the link randomly negotiates
       | 10, 100, full duplex, half duplex, flow control on or sometimes
       | off. It's all coin tosses.
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | Potentially, but the problem is that now you had no choice.
         | Back then, your laptop would come with a reputable (most likely
         | Intel) Ethernet controller that you would use so you had no
         | reason to buy an external one and bear the risk of getting a
         | shitty one. Now, more and more laptops don't have an Ethernet
         | controller, so you have no choice but to roll the dice and
         | churn through multiple dongles until you get one with a
         | controller that doesn't suck.
        
         | Saris wrote:
         | A good NIC doesn't have any of those issues. It all comes down
         | to their poor choices in what ethernet IC to use.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | These Macs have Broadcom NICs so I'm not sure if it's quite
           | as simple as buying reputable brands.
        
       | pjsg wrote:
       | All I wanted for my Macbook Pro (with 4 USB-C) was to get one
       | USB-A and power passthrough. The USB-A would then get chained to
       | a genuine USB-A hub.
       | 
       | After two years, I'm now on my third hub. The second one was made
       | by EUASOO and it died not being able to pass power through from
       | the USB charger (it also wouldn't let the Mac boot when it was
       | plugged in!). The first one (that I can't find) never really
       | worked at all. The third one is branded OMARS and has survived
       | maybe a month. On the plus side, it does actually let the Mac
       | boot.
        
       | tim-- wrote:
       | The Dell DA310 is the best all in one USB hub that I have ever
       | purchased. Works fantastic on Apple devices. Been using a number
       | of them for a decent amount of time.
       | 
       | Sure, it also uses an RTL8153, and might need the Realtek drivers
       | to work (out of luck if you are on macOS 11+) but it was the
       | first USB hub that I used forever, where everything just worked.
       | 
       | I don't use it for PD, I don't trust that on any hub.
        
       | vorpalhex wrote:
       | Adding my own to the list -
       | 
       | + Belkin's thunderbolt dock - Ethernet is a mess and takes down
       | my network switch when my macbook goes to sleep. This seems like
       | a common issue. The fix is to "unplug ethernet when putting
       | laptop to sleep".
       | 
       | + Anker's bigger usb c dock - actually this one works for me,
       | though I am using it with an XPS 15.
       | 
       | + The spouse has a CalDigit 3. She says it has no issues.
        
       | holdenk wrote:
       | I like the tear-down approach, I wish it was more common for
       | these devices to say what chips they used.
        
       | orheep wrote:
       | I'm using a Kensington SD5700T and I have nothing but good to say
       | about it.
        
       | dwighttk wrote:
       | Seems like it should be Realtek RTL8153 and my slow descent into
       | madness.
        
       | ok123456 wrote:
       | I ran into a problem with one of these docks where the network
       | adapter would randomly start flooding the network if it was left
       | plugged in after the computer was disconnected. It didn't happen
       | every time, maybe once every few months. The guy who had this
       | thing would take off for the day a little before 5 and then total
       | chaos by the time he was pulling away in his car.
        
       | fooey wrote:
       | What I want to know is why no one makes a plain actual hub for
       | USB-C
       | 
       | Not a dock, I don't want video, I don't want ethernet, I don't
       | want an sdcard reader, I don't need switching
       | 
       | All I want is a powered 1 to many USB-C hub. Maybe my google-fu
       | is failing me, but I can't find this category of product and I
       | don't know why.
        
       | jmyeet wrote:
       | I've gone through a number of Thunderbolt docks over the last few
       | years. I tend to prefer docks to hubs because you tend to use
       | your laptop at several fixed positions, each of which might have
       | 1 or more monitors, a network cable, accessories (eg keyboard,
       | mouse, camera) and so on. It's easier to just plug in one cable
       | from the dock to the Macbook that'll do everything including
       | power it.
       | 
       | A good example of this is the Caldigit TS4 [1]. All the ports you
       | could possibly want. Here's what I've learned.
       | 
       | First and foremost, you'll be surprised at how many issues come
       | down to a given cable being bad. It's gotten to the point that
       | whenever I buy any sort of cable I typically buy 2 or even 3 at
       | the same time because I assume 1 will be bad or will go bad.
       | 
       | Second, also to do with cables, don't use any cable to connect
       | from your dock to your laptop longer than a foot. These cables
       | that can take power and full bandwidth for displays and
       | accesories are the most technically demanding. Keep them as short
       | as possible. And again, have spares.
       | 
       | Third, while I'm a traditionalist and like a wired connection
       | (and thus an Ethernet port), it's really optional now,
       | particularly at home where you have some control over the
       | network. Like I can get easily get 500+ Mbps over Wifi at home.
       | This of course assumes a sufficient Internet connection but if
       | you don't have that then Ehternet is even less necessary.
       | 
       | If you have flickering display in particular, your first instinct
       | should be to blame the cable.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-station-4/
        
         | j_crick wrote:
         | > All the ports you could possibly want.
         | 
         | No HDMI.
        
           | jmyeet wrote:
           | True. Personally, I never use HDMI but YMMV. You can of
           | course use a USB-C to HDMI cable however.
        
         | shitlord wrote:
         | I also prefer docks to hubs, for the same reasons you
         | mentioned. There are still some pretty big gaps which need to
         | be addressed before we can use a single cable for everything.
         | 
         | First, Mac OS still doesn't support DisplayPort MST. If you
         | have two or more non-Thunderbolt monitors, you'll need to use
         | more than one port.
         | 
         | Second, many companies require their employees to use tokens
         | such as Yubikeys, which are USB devices plugged into a laptop
         | operating on human touch. Even if you dock your laptop, you
         | will need to keep it within arm's reach so you can touch the
         | Yubikey. You could remove the Yubikey from the laptop and plug
         | it into your dock, but that defeats the purpose of docking.
         | 
         | Ultimately, I just want more desk space, and I consider both
         | the dock and the laptop to be clutter.
        
           | ubercow13 wrote:
           | >If you have two or more non-Thunderbolt monitors, you'll
           | need to use more than one port
           | 
           | Is this still true with TB4? TB4 docks can have 3 downstream
           | Thunderbolt ports and afaik each of them can power a single
           | DisplayPort display without MST being involved, and without
           | the display having to be a 'Thunderbolt' display, which I
           | think just meant that they had a TB3 hub in to allow
           | daisychaining.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | > _If you have flickering display in particular, your first
         | instinct should be to blame the cable._
         | 
         | Any recommendations? I'm very happy with Monoprice's TB cables
         | (https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24721), which start at
         | $27 but are a _lot_ cheaper than Apple 's.
        
           | jmyeet wrote:
           | So for things like iPhone cables, I just buy whatever nylon-
           | braided cable Anker is selling now. I've been using Anker
           | cables for years now and they've been reliable.
           | 
           | But for things like TB and DP cables, I don't have any
           | particular brand recommendations. I'm not sure it matters. I
           | just find something with a good rating on Amazon and buy 2 of
           | them. Whatever gets labelled as Amazon Basics has thus far
           | seemingly worked well enough.
        
         | fatnoah wrote:
         | I hear you on the cable. Even with the dock I got working, I
         | was still banging my head against the wall for a bit until I
         | tried a different Thunderbolt cable.
        
         | HNHatesUsers wrote:
        
         | btgeekboy wrote:
         | I mostly agree with this, but not necessarily the part about
         | the Ethernet connection. If you do a significant number of
         | meetings with video conferencing, you'll be much better off
         | with a wired connection where the latency and jitter are both
         | lower than over the typical WiFi. It's one of the easiest
         | things you can do to improve how your face and voice appear to
         | your colleagues.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | synicalx wrote:
       | FWIW, I've been using a Samsung S65U monitor which has a built in
       | USB hub, Ethernet, audio out and connects downstream via USB-C
       | with something like 90w power delivery (it might be 65w, can't
       | remember). So far after a couple of months it's been absolutely
       | flawless with Macbooks and Windows laptops and in it's "high
       | resolution display" mode I can get 100hz even over USB-C. It does
       | only have 3 USB ports and plugging any kind of USB-A hub or port
       | multiplier in seems to freak it out a bit, so as far as I can
       | tell you're stuck with the 3 ports it comes with.
       | 
       | LG and Dell also make similar USB-C hub type monitors as well, in
       | a few different sizes but AFAIK none of Ethernet ports on them if
       | that's important to you.
        
       | someotherperson wrote:
       | The whole time I was reading this I was hoping that the author
       | would have found something good at the end. This is unfortunate.
       | 
       | I had the same initial hub as the author, and like the author, it
       | died. I think it was branded UGreen or something. I've currently
       | got a Baesus. Likely it's all the same trash.
       | 
       | I had a Dell USB-C dock last year which worked quite well, but
       | it's a chunky thing that isn't great for travelling.
       | 
       | I wish there was a similar guide that ends with finding a product
       | that actually performs. It would be great to see Apple or
       | something try to address this issue without having to buy three
       | dongles.
        
       | steveBK123 wrote:
       | Shitty USB-C is incredible. I have some docks/SD-card reader
       | devices that somehow only work when plugged in with side A facing
       | up despite the port allowing plugging in either way.
        
       | dervjd wrote:
       | If you're purchasing something to use permanently at your desk,
       | it's worth spending more for a Thunderbolt dock. Most USB-C hubs
       | are total crap.
       | 
       | You'll get far faster transfer speeds, more ports, charging (and
       | at full speed), proper display output (dual 4K/60hz) and better
       | components/reliability. The CalDigit TS3 Plus[1] is what I've
       | used for several years - first with a 2019 Intel MBP and now with
       | my new 2021 M1 Pro MBP. It's pricey compared to a USB-C dongle,
       | but rock solid.
       | 
       | [1]: https://amzn.to/38sFDZk
        
         | paisawalla wrote:
         | Their entire product line seems to be "currently unavailable"
         | on Amazon.
        
       | physhster wrote:
       | I have one of those Anker x-in-one hubs and it works well, minus
       | the Ethernet which it capped at 300Mbps due to [checks notes] a
       | USB 2.0 interconnection.
       | 
       | Why?!? I ended up getting a separate sub $20 USB-C to Ethernet
       | adapter from a random Amazon brand called Uni. Get full gig,
       | every time despite it having a Realtek 8153 chip in it. So, there
       | might be more to it.
        
         | thedougd wrote:
         | Many laptops can't handle more than USB 2.0 when outputting
         | display over the same port. Those that can need a certain
         | protocol (too lazy to look up). There's a better protocol that
         | allows both, but now you're in the $100+ range of hub/docks
         | that can handle it.
        
       | codeulike wrote:
       | "What Shopping On Amazon Feels Like"
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQpxAvjD_30
       | 
       | I saw this a few months ago and it really lays bare a lot of the
       | crazy stuff we've just got used to with amazon
        
       | Saris wrote:
       | I feel like if you need ethernet, hdmi, DP, etc you should buy a
       | laptop that has those ports on it in the first place.
        
         | peepop6 wrote:
         | My dream laptop is something with the performance of the M1 but
         | with the modularity and freedom of old ThinkPads.
         | 
         | I'm just hoping that by the time I stop using this M1 laptop
         | there will be alternatives because there's really nothing I
         | like about Apple other than their SoC.
        
       | dml2135 wrote:
       | Does anyone know if it's possible to drive three HD/QHD monitors
       | via a single thunderbolt port on an M1 Mac, and if any docks
       | exist that would support this use case?
       | 
       | Many of these docks and Apple support documents say they support
       | dual displays at 4K resolutions, but it's difficult-to-impossible
       | to find information on # of displays supported at lower
       | resolutions.
        
         | noobee wrote:
         | I am using the USB-C 4K with an M1 Mac Pro (Pro CPU), driving 2
         | _4k@60Hz (via DP) and 1_ 4k@30Hz (via HDMI):
         | https://plugable.com/collections/docking-stations/3x-display...
        
       | snvzz wrote:
       | This seems ripe for some Maker to design a reliable alternative
       | as OSHW.
       | 
       | I'd buy it in an eyeblink, from whatever shop the author prefers
       | me to use.
        
       | Nextgrid wrote:
       | I wonder how much e-waste this USB-C bullshit idea generated.
       | It's not even a one-off, "early adopter" problem, considering
       | that even _now_ it 's hard to buy something that actually works
       | and you have to churn through many attempts before getting lucky.
       | 
       | In contrast, I can't remember the last time I bought a USB-A,
       | HDMI or Ethernet cable/peripheral that didn't work, partly
       | because those specs are self-contained and simple enough that
       | even the cheapest manufacturer will typically do a good enough
       | job.
        
         | moduspol wrote:
         | I still get the same issue with HDMI cables when you want to do
         | more than 4K (like 4K60 4:4:4) with a cable that's more than
         | half a meter long. Cable length apparently significantly
         | impacts throughput.
         | 
         | It's even worse on Amazon when a seller will list multiple
         | lengths of the same cable, as there'll be reviews about how
         | this works great for (e.g.) Dolby Vision on an Apple TV 4K, but
         | that was for the short cable. That doesn't imply the longer
         | version of the same cable will work for the same application.
        
         | npunt wrote:
         | Big picture, USB-C is set to considerably reduce ewaste given
         | that more and more consumer electronics products are
         | standardizing on it as a charging solution, eliminating custom
         | chargers and letting manufacturers get away with not including
         | a charger. This is likely to be accelerated by regulations in
         | the EU. The last time we had this level of standardization was
         | probably the AA battery. Not saying things are perfect (because
         | they obviously aren't) but computers - and especially finicky
         | docks and high performance cables - are just one part of a much
         | much bigger market for USB-C.
        
         | HNHatesUsers wrote:
        
       | legitster wrote:
       | I have never trusted one of these hubs to pass power through
       | after feeling how hot mine got. That seems to have prolonged the
       | life on mine.
       | 
       | The decision of Amazon to allow foreign sellers directly on their
       | platform really degraded the quality of their offerings overall.
       | While I understand they had to to stay competitive with other
       | retailers, the race to the bottom on some of these offerings is
       | making me care about brand names more than I ever expected to.
        
       | thedougd wrote:
       | I have found that Macs are far less tolerant of USB-C devices
       | than other machines. I have crap dongles that work with PCs,
       | Chromebooks, even Chromecast and Nintendo's, but not correctly
       | with a Mac. I've seen the same with Intel and M1 Macs.
        
       | Roritharr wrote:
       | 7 years ago I wrote a comment, dismayed about the coming USB-C
       | insanity and was made fun of.
       | 
       | Here we are.
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9645013
        
         | spicybright wrote:
         | See you again in 7 years! :(
        
       | post_break wrote:
       | I'm currently using a UNI usb C hub that has worked flawlessly. I
       | think it's bespoke because the port layout is nothing like all
       | the clones and the reviews seem to show it's not flaky.
        
       | loudthing wrote:
       | Interesting how slow USB-C adoption has been so far, which is a
       | shame because the connector and concept are a great standard, but
       | the implementation of various busses (Thunderbolt, PCIExpress),
       | video adapters (Displayport, HDMI 2, 2.1), USB versions (trying
       | to be inclusive of USB 1 through 3 and all its flavors) is
       | maddeningly complex, and unappealing to the typical consumer.
        
       | NaturalPhallacy wrote:
       | OMG. That might explain why the piece of shit dongle my work
       | provided managed to bring my entire internet connection down for
       | all the devices on it by downloading multi-gig OS update from
       | Apple at a screaming 1.2MB/s (yes, one point two megabytes per
       | second) over my _symmetric gigabit_ internet connection.
       | 
       | Somehow I couldn't ping google from my windows desktop connected
       | via ethernet, or access the web via my phone or ipad via wifi.
       | The router itself couldn't even ping anything.
       | 
       | The weirdest thing was the update never so much as paused and it
       | wasn't using even 3% of my bandwidth. I'm not network engineer
       | enough to even guess how the fuck it did that.
       | 
       | Once the update was done I just unplugged the Ethernet and used
       | built in wifi cause I needed the HDMI/USB 3 ports on it. Zero
       | problems thereafter. Internet was fine on every device.
       | 
       | It was shaped just like the pieces of shit in this article.
        
       | jcelerier wrote:
       | even without USB-C, I'm under the impression that somewhere in
       | the stack there's an overflow: _every single_ of my USB3 hubs
       | after some time (a few weeks not being turned off) enter into
       | some locked state where they just don 't work anymore, on all of
       | my computers
        
       | ApolIllo wrote:
       | > I appear to be paying a lot of money for products that I could
       | buy for cheap on random websites is starting to piss me off a bit
       | at this point.
       | 
       | The last 5+ years as an Amazon customer have me feeling this way.
       | 
       | > Realtek RTL8153
       | 
       | Could the Realtek issues be related to power?
       | 
       | I have a Tbolt dock which is powered using a DC barrel jack
       | (6.5amps @ 20V). The comparison is not great as the dock
       | (TBT3-UDZ) is not a USB C dock and uses the Intel i211 nic.
       | 
       | The author appears to have found stability with the Anker
       | PowerExpand 8-in-1, which has the buck converter with power
       | management components.
       | 
       | I've had terrible experiences with the Satechi Multiport Adapter
       | V2 and ICY BOX USB-C type adapters.
       | 
       | I suspect that the issues can typically narrow down with any dock
       | to bandwidth or power.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Power is a real concern - and if you have something pushing
         | lots of pixels or data you should be suspicious of it if it
         | doesn't have a power brick.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | This exemplifies the issues I see with a lot of this stuff.
       | 
       | The other day, I was looking at TB4 hubs, and noticed that Every.
       | Single. One. had the exact same layout of ports, with different
       | cases around them. The price range was damn wide, too.
       | 
       | The different one was CalDigit. That does seem to be a good
       | company; though pricey.
        
       | randomblock1 wrote:
       | > I appear to be paying a lot of money for products that I could
       | buy for cheap on random websites is starting to piss me off a bit
       | at this point.
       | 
       | It seems like if you bought an accessory that's just a PCB (which
       | means excluding headphones, storage, etc) within the last 5
       | years, there's like a 90% chance of it being dropshipped.
       | 
       | At this point, I've just given up and ordered right from
       | AliExpress. I can't even name any good accessory manufacturers
       | off the top of my head.
        
       | Doctor_Fegg wrote:
       | I have a USB-C hub for my Macbook which isn't any of these (it's
       | a "VMade") but looks exactly the same.
       | 
       | It's a heap of crap. (Or, at least, the conjunction of it and
       | Monterey is a heap of crap.) If I leave it plugged in when the
       | Mac goes to sleep, eventually the Mac will kernel panic and force
       | a restart. The ethernet just randomly dies, such that I now run
       | the Mac permanently off wifi even though I have a superb fibre
       | connection. The USB connections do at least work, but that's
       | about all I can say of it.
        
         | Spooky23 wrote:
         | You get what you pay for! Look at the HP USB & thunderbolt
         | dock. They are pretty stable.
         | 
         | In my experience (my team has deployed about 50k in 3 years),
         | the thunderbolt ones are more reliable, even if the laptop
         | doesn't have thunderbolt.
        
       | mulderc wrote:
       | I must be some USB-C unicorn as I can't think of ever having any
       | issues.
       | 
       | I have had a couple of USB-C hubs and they have worked for both
       | me and my partner. All my work machines are USB-C only and
       | literally the only issue I can remember is where in one
       | conference room the USB-C to HDMI output only went to 2 of the 3
       | screens on the walls but I think that was something unrelated to
       | the USB-C connection.
       | 
       | Now I don't push my USB-C hubs hard but did run ethernet, HDMI,
       | and USB-A device or two pretty often and everything worked as
       | expected.
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | The author's main complaint is that the network was being
         | downgraded to 100baseTX. If you aren't doing a lot of heavy
         | local network activity, you might not notice if you are being
         | downgraded.
        
           | mulderc wrote:
           | Since much of my USB-C hub usage was during COVID and work at
           | home, I did do a ton of speed tests and don't remember seeing
           | any issues with being downgraded but if it was random then I
           | might not have noticed.
        
       | JonChesterfield wrote:
       | Lenovo dock gen 2 here. Running power, three monitors, ethernet,
       | misc low bandwidth usb peripherals. Totally robust on windows and
       | linux, I don't have an osx box at present.
       | 
       | It was not competitively priced and I feel a lot better about
       | that after this post.
        
       | drzoltar wrote:
       | Sad to see Anker on the list. I used to think of them as a pretty
       | reliable electronics manufacturer in a sea of low quality
       | chargers and hubs.
        
         | InTheArena wrote:
         | I have their TB4 dock. It works well with a Intel mac. Not so
         | well with a M1 mac.
         | 
         | Might be a issue on the other end of the thunderbolt connector.
        
           | spyspy wrote:
           | For what it's worth I have the Anker 777 I bought with my WFH
           | budget and it's been fine with my M1.
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0928W3XHD
        
       | kmeisthax wrote:
       | Oh hey, Realtek networking. That's _the_ thing that made me give
       | up on trying to Hackintosh back in the Snow Leopard days. The
       | weird ported-from-Linux kexts that existed at the time would just
       | give up and kill the network after a few GBs transmitted - not
       | even enough to download contemporary Xcode. Glad to hear even the
       | official experience with these chips is just as bad  /s
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | This is a weird post, because as far as I can tell, his final
       | purchase (the Anker hub) never went wrong. He just took it apart
       | for the hell of it.
       | 
       | Shouldn't the summary be "Hey, this Anker hub which looks quite
       | different to the other two is actually pretty good"?
        
       | Evidlo wrote:
       | Why do people buy laptops that don't have this stuff already on
       | it?
       | 
       | I run an engineering course and it's almost comical how often
       | students have to set aside their $2000 Macbooks and use the
       | desktop workstations because they forgot their dongles at home.
       | 
       | My Thinkpad has 6 USB ports (2 USB 3.0), SDCard, DisplayPort,
       | VGA, ethernet and also e-sata and Firewire which I've never used.
        
         | hpb42 wrote:
         | I got a new laptop for work that has: 1 USB3 type A, 1 USB-C, 1
         | Thunderbolt4 in USB-C connetor, 1 HDMI, 1 audio jack, and 1
         | Power connector. No ethernet. My boss bought me a caldigit
         | element hub to be able to connect mouse and keyboard... We were
         | all disappointed when we realized there was not enough "normal"
         | USB ports.
        
         | kuschku wrote:
         | The T470 is IMO the percect thinkpad.
         | 
         | 3x USB 3.0 1x Thunderbolt 3 (with USB-PD support) Lenovo
         | Charging port Lenovo Docking port HDMI, SDcard, Ethernet, SIM,
         | SmartCard
         | 
         | It works with the oldest thinkpad docks and the newest
         | thunderbolt docks at the same time.
        
         | loudthing wrote:
         | Honest answer: Apple is a lifestyle brand, however they manage
         | to offer a superior product to the layman because they have
         | tight control over both hardware and software codevelopment. In
         | my experience, people tend to also like Apple hardware because
         | Apple stores are ubiquitous, so when you need a repair done,
         | you just take it to your local mall and get it fixed rather
         | than mailing it away to Lenovo and hoping for the best.
         | 
         | Out of curiosity, in your engineering course, what are students
         | expected to used to their own computers for? In my experience,
         | any engineering course with labs that would require dongles
         | supply desktop computers anyway. Your school doesn't have
         | desktops in the classroom right? What equipment are you
         | interfacing with that would be easily both mac and pc
         | compatible anyway?
        
       | bastardoperator wrote:
       | I had this issue too. I switched to a dell monitor that used
       | USB-C for video and then plugged my other useful devices into the
       | monitor. I have two other monitors that use USB-C too, but I
       | opted for a DVI to USB-C for the two monitors. I still have two
       | available USB-C ports and if I'm in a bind I use one of these
       | crap adapters via USB-C but that hasn't happened in quite some
       | time.
        
       | Jhsto wrote:
       | If you use a laptop with an external monitor, a better idea is to
       | get a premium monitor which handles charging, video, and data
       | transfer of USB devices connected to the monitor for you. This
       | allowed me to get rid off the wonky USBC hubs, but before my
       | employer got me a Dell monitor I didn't know that a single USBC
       | connection can deliver all three.
        
         | certifiedloud wrote:
         | I had several dongles and wires handing from my laptop until I
         | read your comment just now. thanks!
        
         | FemmeAndroid wrote:
         | I went this route. I have a supposedly good Dell monitor where
         | one of my devices will connect via video but not recognize
         | attached USB devices 4 out of 5 times so I need to plug and
         | unplug a bunch of times every day. It can take over 15 attempts
         | on a bad day. Never again.
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | This doesn't help for travel.
        
         | fivea wrote:
         | > If you use a laptop with an external monitor, a better idea
         | is to get a premium monitor which handles charging, video, and
         | data transfer of USB devices connected to the monitor for you.
         | 
         | I made this mistake, and I ended up with a grossly overpriced
         | monitor which fails to charge a MacBook Pro and whose video
         | through USBC support is hit-and-miss, in the sense that it
         | doesn't always work.
        
       | theta_d wrote:
       | I've had this Thunderbolt Doc for over a month now and I love it.
       | https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbolt-dock
        
       | eckza wrote:
       | One of the biggest reasons that I went through the trouble of
       | switching to a Surface Book 3 + Surface Dock 2 was to make _damn
       | sure_ that my desk docking station setup worked well. (Plus, I'm
       | a sucker for the Surface Magsafe-ripoff connector.)
       | 
       | I'm running a Dell 27" 4K monitor and a ViewSonic 15" portable
       | 1080p monitor along with the internal display full-time, with
       | both external displays plugged in via USB-C on the Surface dock;
       | and it's been reasonably reliable.
       | 
       | I don't have any other USB-C peripherals plugged in to the dock,
       | and I haven't tried a fourth display; but so far, so good, no
       | complaints.
        
       | mherdeg wrote:
       | Kind of surprised the author didn't describe getting refunds --
       | the behavior here seems like it should have triggered European
       | consumer protections.
        
       | moritonal wrote:
       | If you want a decent dock you have to spend a bit of money. I
       | went through this pain before accepting the cost and buying a
       | CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub[1]. Run's two 4k displays at
       | 60Hz, any peripheral and charges my laptop.
       | 
       | So good I bought a second.
       | 
       | 1. https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/
        
         | nerdawson wrote:
         | As I was scrolling through the article, I was hoping to see the
         | TS3 amongst the docks torn down.
         | 
         | I was happy with mine until I started using an extra display
         | with it recently. The main display is hooked up via
         | DisplayPort. The problem arose when I added a second display
         | over USB C.
         | 
         | For some reason, when I plug the monitor into the dock, there's
         | a faint electrical noise. If I plug the monitor into a USB C
         | port on the laptop instead, it's perfectly quiet. Maybe I
         | should attempt HDMI instead. Either way it's frustrating.
        
         | steveBK123 wrote:
         | Basically one of the few that actually does what it says on the
         | box reliably.
         | 
         | Even the OWC brand one I had was flakey, at similar $200-400
         | price point.
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | I ended up getting a Lenovo USB-C Gen 2 hub a couple of years
         | ago, and it's still on sale. Also very satisfied.
         | 
         | I'm able to switch my personal (Lenovo) and work (Dell)
         | laptops, mostly without issue. I say without issue because the
         | Dell/Intel only supports HBM2 so won't do two monitors if one
         | of them is more than 1080p.
         | 
         | I settled on using the HDMI out from the laptop to split the
         | difference in frustration and convenience.
        
         | conradev wrote:
         | CalDigit's TS3, TS3 Plus, and now the TS4 are all incredible
         | products.
         | 
         | I have used them with my MacBooks over the years as well as my
         | gaming PC (ASUS ProArt B550 motherboard), and they are the most
         | reliable part of my desktop setup. They are not just reliable,
         | but reliably fast. I get full gigabit ethernet speed, fast USB
         | transfer speeds, and fast SD card reading, without fail, every
         | time.
        
         | bsder wrote:
         | For the sake of anecdata, I found that even the Caldigit docks
         | fail to work on the Intel Macbook Pros (I only have a single
         | data point about the M1s and they didn't work there either).
         | When I hook even basic things like my keyboard and mouse up to
         | the USB A ports, things work for about 20 minutes or so (varies
         | widely) and then the USB A ports go dead requiring a reboot to
         | restore.
         | 
         | This is a known failure mode, but it doesn't hit everybody. It
         | is _solely_ an Apple software fault as older OSs do not exhibit
         | it. I _really_ wish I knew what the issue was.
         | 
         | On the plus side, I found this so infuriating that I finally
         | threw all in and switched to Linux full-time (Lenovo X1 Carbon
         | with a ThinkPad dock) and haven't looked back since.
         | 
         | Side note: practically every thunderbolt dock I have works fine
         | with every x86 laptop I have running either Windows or Linux
         | (including the Caldigit!). YMMV.
        
           | iends wrote:
           | My entire team and a few other developers I work with have
           | had zero issues with CalDigit TS3 on Intel Macs. At least 10
           | TS3s over the period of several years.
        
         | zeristor wrote:
         | Don't you mean "so good you bought the company"?
        
           | buggeryorkshire wrote:
           | Good to see you again Victor!
        
         | whatever1 wrote:
         | What network controller does it have? Is it the same realtek ?
        
           | whatever1 wrote:
           | Replying to myself. From a tear down it seems like the TS3
           | plus version uses an intel network controller!
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f6Zs1JyZBQ
        
         | TheNewAndy wrote:
         | It is missing Ethernet, which seems to be important to the
         | author.
         | 
         | Having heard positive things about caldigit, I got their USB-C
         | Pro Dock and I get frequent screen blanking with my M1 Mac, and
         | often some of the USB ports fail to work. I don't use the
         | ethernet port, but I think it is a Realtek (so likely the same
         | thing the author is complaining about)
         | 
         | I have spoken to caldigit support and so far they have replaced
         | the dock once, and now have gone pretty quiet.
        
           | dntrkv wrote:
           | Their TS3 dock supports ethernet. I've had mine for well over
           | 3 years now and it still works great. Can't say the same for
           | the 5+ other docks I had before this one.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | > _It is missing Ethernet, which seems to be important to the
           | author._
           | 
           | CalDigit's TS4 has Ethernet (2.5 GbE). I've been a happy TS3
           | user for years.
           | 
           | https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-station-4/
        
             | iends wrote:
             | I have a TS3, but it's been hard to get a second or a TS4
             | lately.
        
           | manyxcxi wrote:
           | I've got the TS 3 Plus dock (which has Ethernet) and it has
           | been working flawlessly on my 2020 MBP (Intel) the entire
           | time. I _think_ there was a firmware update in the early days
           | that unlocked the 85 or 90 watt charging. I had heartburn
           | about the price, but it's been worth every penny.
           | 
           | I'm not pushing 4K though, so mileage may vary. I've got a
           | 27" TB2 Apple Cinema Display via TB2 to USB-C and a Dell via
           | Display port.
           | 
           | As a guy working with Raspberry Pi and 3D printers a lot in
           | my free time it is SO NICE to have the card reader right up
           | front and easy to access. I also love un/plugging just one
           | cord when I'm on the go.
        
           | moritonal wrote:
           | For the Ethernet I enjoyed the fact the dock was clean and
           | unopinionated, just providing USB ports so I could use a USB-
           | C-to-Ethernet adapter.
           | 
           | Your comments about the Screen Blanking sound bad and are are
           | likely correct, I only have an Intel Mac to compare.
        
             | TheNewAndy wrote:
             | I have used the dock with windows and Linux machines and
             | seen solar issues btw. So I would expect the same with an
             | Intel mac
        
           | watermelon0 wrote:
           | Does it have an audible coil whine?
           | 
           | I've tested 5+ TS3 Plus docks, and all of them have a coil
           | whine, which can be heard in a quiet room, without playing
           | any music.
           | 
           | Sometimes I like to work in silence, and the coil whine
           | really bothers me.
        
             | conradev wrote:
             | I usually can detect coil whines to an annoying degree, but
             | I don't hear one in my TS3 Plus. Maybe your ears are more
             | sensitive than mine!
        
             | generallee5686 wrote:
             | I've had my ts3 for a couple years now. I just noticed a
             | pretty bad coil whine on mine lately. I'm not sure if it's
             | always been there and my environment's changed or the
             | device just suddenly started making the noise.
        
           | cmckn wrote:
           | I got a thunderbolt 4 dock from Razer[0] that has all the
           | bits and bobs (and it looks really nice). Almost bankrupted
           | me, but as the GP says, this is just the reality at this
           | point.
           | 
           | [0]: https://www.razer.com/gaming-pc-accessories/razer-
           | thunderbol...
        
         | serverlessmom wrote:
         | Opened this for the express purpose of plugging caldigit. A
         | device that improves on these other devices with a massive
         | upgrade in engineering. Full teardown
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f6Zs1JyZBQ&ab_channel=Camer...
        
         | wwalexander wrote:
         | I'd just like to chime in with the Kensington SD5700T [1]. I've
         | tried a CalDigit TS3 Plus, an Anker PowerExpand 13-in-1, and
         | the Kensington has by far been the most reliable.
         | 
         | It doesn't have built-in HDMI/DisplayPort out, but it's easy to
         | buy the appropriate cable to connect to your monitor (I
         | recommend Club3D [2]). Especially if you're trying to use an
         | HDMI 2.1 or DisplayPort 1.4 display, as I've found most built-
         | in ports on these hubs don't support these latest standards or
         | have weird issues with them.
         | 
         | It also has a nice mounting bracket [3] that lets you hide the
         | cable mess under your desk or behind your monitor.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.kensington.com/p/products/device-docking-
         | connect...
         | 
         | [2] https://www.club-3d.com/en/cat/cable/usb_type_c/1606/301/
         | 
         | [3] https://www.kensington.com/p/products/device-docking-
         | connect...
        
         | Sophistifunk wrote:
         | For the sake of anecdata, I have a CalDigit TB3 dock that's
         | been working _reasonably well_ for a few years now, which is
         | actually pretty high praise given the competition, and I 'll
         | probably stick with CD when I get around to replacing it.
        
         | LocalPCGuy wrote:
         | I don't like the idea of having to chain multiple dongles(I
         | know the advantages, being able to choose a good network
         | adapter, etc.) but I'd still pay decent money for a single
         | device that I can leave on my desk with everything plugged in
         | without the need for additional interconnects. (I do see that
         | they make actual hubs as well, might check those out.)
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | morninglight wrote:
         | My kid wanted a USB hub, so I got this at the local $5 store.
         | Have not heard any complaints. I am sooo lucky.
         | 
         | https://www.fivebelow.com/products/4-port-type-c-charging-hu...
        
           | Nextgrid wrote:
           | That's USB 2 though - it's literally a USB-A hub with the
           | connector swapped for a USB-C one. This speaks volumes about
           | the beauty of USB 2.0 and the USB-A specs that they withstood
           | decades of unscrupulous manufacturers; they're so simple that
           | it's literally more effort to screw it up than to do it
           | properly, so even the cheapest option will typically work.
        
             | morninglight wrote:
             | I know that, and you know that, and by the time my kid
             | figures it out....
             | 
             | I'll have saved enough to send him to College.
             | 
             | .
        
         | dogma1138 wrote:
         | You can get them on the cheap as you can buy enterprise Dell/HP
         | USB-C/TB for like $50-70 on EBay...
         | 
         | Do not waste your money on high end consumer stuff, the
         | enterprise stuff is better and the market is flooded with
         | disposed units...
        
       | alx__ wrote:
       | Yeah I've been playing this game for the past two years with the
       | MacBook Pro.
       | 
       | Most work fine for a minute and then after a few months seems to
       | get cranky and some input will start failing :/
       | 
       | Currently using that Anker hub mentioned. Probably the best of
       | the bunch but that's not saying much. Lots of little annoyances.
       | 
       | One thing I found was putting the low powered USB A devices on a
       | smaller hub "stick" that's USB-C and daisy chained to the Anker
       | one. This has been the most stable setup.
       | 
       | But usually about twice a month stability will wane I'll have to
       | unplug everything, restart computer and then plug them all back
       | in one by one.
        
       | somethoughts wrote:
       | It feels like Apple should have done/should do an official in-
       | house docking system instead of outsourcing such a critical
       | component in the overall system/value proposition.
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | Actually they have a simple USB-C break-out adapter which has a
         | USB-A port, an HDMI port and power-in. It works extremely well.
         | You can connect it to a USB3.0 hub to get a lot of ports. I
         | leave it at my office desk for day to day operation.
         | 
         | If you want a proper docking station, a higher end Dell monitor
         | [0] will do with USB-C, display daisy chain and USB-PD. It'll
         | enable single cable connectivity to anything you care, sans
         | ethernet, which can be attached to the monitor's USB hub, if
         | you really need.
         | 
         | For my mobility needs, I use a Kingston Nucleum [1] since I
         | don't care about Ethernet, but about fast card readers. It also
         | supports 60W USB-PD, which is ample for a MacBook Air M1. That
         | thing is really high quality.
         | 
         | [0]: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-
         | ultrasharp-27-4k-u...
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.kingston.com/en/memory-card-readers/nucleum-
         | usb-...
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | There's nothing like having to do Johnny Mnemonic cosplay
           | because a manufacturer won't let their product be sullied
           | with holes.
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | I don't think a MacBook Air M1 has a lot places to add
             | ports [0]. The latest generation of MacBook Pros bring a
             | lot of the ports back [1], so that point doesn't hold
             | anymore.
             | 
             | Also, of all the MacBook Air users I know, I'm the heaviest
             | user in terms of processor load, and given that it's the
             | company computer, it wouldn't be my first choice for a
             | personal MacBook (in fact, I have a personal MacBook Pro).
             | 
             | At the end of the day, having a featherweight computer
             | which can do all my work related tasks and some heavier
             | stuff and doesn't needs its charger and ports most of the
             | time is really a spoiling thing. However, for heavy
             | development and photographic work, nothing beats on board
             | ports and a bigger screen.
             | 
             | [0]: https://www.apple.com/v/macbook-
             | air/n/images/specs/mba_charg...
             | 
             | [1]: https://images.macrumors.com/t/MsiVifkTbdhdqh2z2tvJZXI
             | uH80=/...
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | I actually agree. Normally I'm against proprietary ports, but
         | vendors that have done this in the past have traditionally
         | killed a lot of birds with one stone. Both Dell and Lenovo's
         | docking solutions are fantastic, and don't require expensive
         | hardware to manufacture docks. As a result, you can get the
         | full IO of your computer extended to a dock with 10+ ports for
         | less than $30. Pretty great solution IMO.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | The downside is all of the hardware ends up inside the laptop
           | where you still pay for it and now can't upgrade it
           | separately or reuse it with another laptop. Not that I ever
           | remember Dell/Lenovo docks being $30 new anyways.
        
             | tinus_hn wrote:
             | And if one of the tiny wires breaks and causes a short, not
             | only can you cause a fire but you also damage the connector
             | in the laptop which can only be fixed by replacing the
             | motherboard, which is more expensive than the laptop itself
             | and not covered by warranty.
        
             | somethoughts wrote:
             | I remember I did receive a Dell dock complete with a spring
             | mounted adapter for the actual laptop.
             | 
             | I wasn't thinking that though - I was thinking something
             | like the ones reviewed in the article but perhaps with a
             | Apple Thunderbolt connector to prevent them from having to
             | support Windows PC users.
        
               | zamadatix wrote:
               | You can get e.g. a Dell PR02X (traditional docking
               | station/port replicator) for $30 or less the last couple
               | of years now that they aren't compatible with new models
               | but they used to also be upwards of $100 new before that
               | ~5 years ago. There was a similar price decrease story
               | after the prior generation of proprietary dock was
               | deprecated as well and you'd see the same thing if the
               | current type-C USB/Thunderbolt docks were replaced with a
               | new physical interface. Has nothing to do with the
               | hardware design and everything to do with excess
               | inventory of an old product.
               | 
               | There is no such thing as "Apple Thunderbolt" just
               | "Thunderbolt". It was developed by Intel, Apple was just
               | involved early in development with Intel and first to
               | market >10 years ago. Most Windows laptops come with
               | Thunderbolt and both Dell/Lenovo offer Thunderbolt Docks
               | just as much as USB-C docks. Being Thunderbolt or not has
               | no impact on whether or not the dock will support
               | Windows/Linux vs macOS.
        
           | tossoutaccimade wrote:
           | Totally agree. I keep a dock for my thinkpad t420 hooked up
           | to 2 27" 1440p iMacs in target display mode. Pop it in, the
           | imacs get my laptop's workspaces. I keep a dell laptop docked
           | to my tv as a streaming box. Both of these setups give me no
           | trouble, and all of these things were being thrown out by my
           | university.
        
         | rhinoceraptor wrote:
         | Technically they have one, it's built into the displays.
         | Obviously it's not a great solution if you want to use your
         | existing monitors.
        
         | moduspol wrote:
         | They do--they just include the monitor as part of it. That
         | seems to have been the vision since at least 2011 [1].
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Thunderbolt_Display
        
           | btgeekboy wrote:
           | That was discontinued over 6 years ago. In 2022, it isn't a
           | great monitor, either.
        
             | moduspol wrote:
             | They do have a replacement consumer monitor in 2022 [1],
             | but in the meantime, they were selling and supporting the
             | LG UltraFine 5K [2].
             | 
             | I haven't bought the new studio display, but the
             | Thunderbolt Display was great and the LG UltraFine 5K is,
             | too. Used both as daily drivers (and docking stations) for
             | years. I only haven't bought the new one because that LG
             | one is still going strong.
             | 
             | Regardless: my point is that this certainly seems to be
             | "the vision." You don't need a docking station because your
             | monitor functions as one. If I had to guess, they probably
             | think normal people don't want to buy a docking station and
             | then deal with a series of poorly-integrated peripherals.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/apple-studio-
             | display/stan... [2] https://support.apple.com/en-
             | us/HT210205
        
       | tristor wrote:
       | I've been through this rodeo myself. I've been happily using for
       | years docks made by Hyper over USB-C (and now over TB4). When on
       | the go, I use the official Apple dongle for HDMI and USB. If I
       | need more ports, Hyper and Anker both make USB-C hubs that are
       | very solid and actually work.
       | 
       | I totally agree with the author, most of the products on the
       | market are garbage, and many are the same garbage with different
       | names. To a large degree to solve this issue you need to stop
       | shopping on Amazon. Almost everything listed on Amazon not made
       | by Anker doesn't work. Either buy directly for Apple, or buy from
       | directly from small companies that focus on solving accessories
       | for the Apple market (e.g. Rain Design, 12South, Hyper, CalDigit,
       | et al). This is definitely not limited to USB-C hubs, and
       | encompasses nearly all products. Buying direct from high-quality
       | companies is always better than trying your luck with random
       | brand-named Aliexpress specials sold through Amazon.
        
         | rcthompson wrote:
         | I've found the Macbook hubs from Hyper to be quite reliable
         | over the years. And in addition, they're the only ones that can
         | output to 2 monitors at once (one TB3 port, one HDMI) with a
         | reasonable resolution and refresh rate, AND allow you to plug a
         | charger into the non-TB3 Type C port. I haven't found anything
         | else with similar specs in the same form factor.
        
         | austhrow743 wrote:
         | Or if you don't want to fork out for premium products, at least
         | go straight to aliexpress and pay cheap prices for your cheap
         | products.
        
       | trauco wrote:
       | The Satechi one creates "broadcast storms" [1] that messed up my
       | home network if left it unplugged from the computer but powered
       | on and with the ethernet cable connected.
       | 
       | I have an Anker one now, I guess I should expect the same.
       | 
       | I also have a Dell D6000, which is rarely reviewed but has been
       | solid.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/an3nyf/pass_thoug...
        
         | LocalPCGuy wrote:
         | I had similar issues with one of these USB-C hubs (not sure if
         | it was Satechi or just a similar PCB inside) - just shutting
         | the lid of my laptop was enough to cause it to start going nuts
         | but only after the Mac actually stopped talking to the hub at
         | all. That was a fun one to figure out, I'd lose internet some
         | small period of time (but not always the same amount) after
         | switching from my work Mac to my PC, both hardwired.
        
       | InTheArena wrote:
       | And sadly, I own two out of three of those.
       | 
       | It's worth noting that the Realtek is crap, even ignoring the OSX
       | driver situation. I have a few of the 2.5GBe dongles to make my
       | synology speak 2.5gb/s (because a modern NAS is 2020 should have
       | more then gigabit, but doens't because reasons). The driver in
       | Linux is hot mess. I seem to have much more luck then some with
       | it.
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | Realtek chips have been garbage since the 90s. But they have
         | also been the cheapest option for just as long so you see them
         | absolutely everywhere, especially with third party accessories.
         | It is typical to see hardware errata documents several pages
         | thick from them, if they provide support at all. Getting the
         | drivers working well is pure masochism as you have to deal with
         | the terrible documentation (if you have it at all) and the
         | abysmal quality of the hardware.
         | 
         | But they have turned their garbage products into a multi-
         | billion dollar company and that's all that really matters in
         | the world of business.
         | 
         | Whichever chip is the cheapest is the one that every accessory
         | maker will use. It is rare that a company can break through
         | with a product that advertises higher quality components but at
         | a higher price, or they end up with such a massive premium on
         | what should be a modest increase in BoM that the value
         | proposition still doesn't make sense.
         | 
         | As a sidenote this is exactly what I expected to happen as
         | laptop manufacturers started aggressively cutting ports from
         | their machines. You have to switch to dongles, but dongles
         | _suck_ and the total experience is much worse than having a
         | laptop that is 2mm thicker.
        
         | ridiculous_fish wrote:
         | Do you know of any alternative to the RTL8153 (1Gbe) and
         | RTL8156 (2.5GBe) chips? The only competitors seems to be
         | AQC111U, which appear to not be supported on ARM Macs, and
         | AX88179 whose support appears spotty as well. Any experience
         | with either?
        
       | hvs wrote:
       | We've only had any luck with Elgato Thunderbolt (not just USB-C)
       | hubs with Macs. Everything else has had issues.
        
         | filoleg wrote:
         | is it just me or is Elgato Thunderbolt 3 Pro case looks pretty
         | much exactly like Belkin Thunderbolt 3 Dock Pro case[0] (with
         | the main difference between Belkin having a USB-C port
         | replacing one of the USB-A ports, and the SD card reader and
         | headphone jack being left-right swapped)? It looks the same
         | even down to the curves and materials/colors, and even the
         | naming is that close.
         | 
         | No complaints about the quality of the product btw, I have been
         | using one myself for almost 2 years. I just found it pretty
         | interesting that even the most recommended hub ends up
         | potentially being just as suspect in terms of "who made it".
         | 
         | 0. https://www.belkin.com/us/business/hubs-and-docks-for-
         | busine...
        
       | fatnoah wrote:
       | When work from home started, I went down this road of madness,
       | and have a drawer full of docks that didn't work properly for my
       | Macbook (properly is defined as works as a USB hub, connection to
       | wired network, charges my Macbook, and lets me connect an
       | external 4k display @ 60Hz). A Plugable Thunderbolt 3 Dock has
       | carried me for 2 years so far.
        
         | kurthr wrote:
         | I am assuming you're using Caldigit? I've had good enough luck,
         | I'd consider their TS4 hub.
        
           | fatnoah wrote:
           | The brand of my dock is Plugable.
        
         | olyjohn wrote:
         | I also have a Plugable TB3 dock. I don't know if it's the dock,
         | or the laptop... but MacOS won't remember my monitor layout at
         | all. Even if the computer just goes to sleep, it wakes up and
         | forgets my monitor layout. Gotta fix it multiple times a day
         | sometimes. Sometimes one of the monitors doesn't show up at
         | all, and I gotta unplug and plug it back in. Sometimes doing
         | that, the computer will actually get the proper monitor layout
         | on like the 4th try.
        
           | fatnoah wrote:
           | Interesting. I have no issues like that. I've even changed
           | jobs, so I'm actually on my second Macbook with this hub, and
           | my Mac remembers window positions and monitor layouts every
           | time (knocking on wood so I don't jinx myself). I rarely
           | power all the way down, so usually it's usually just sleep
           | mode for me. I am using the USB-C connection for the monitor
           | if that makes a difference.
        
         | iblaine wrote:
         | I also have a Plugable Thunderbolt 3 Dock, currently powering
         | two displays
        
         | iblaine wrote:
         | I had 4 monitors going w/Plugable products. I've since gone
         | down to 2 and I would recommend Plugable to anyone looking for
         | dual monitors on a mac.
        
         | Falell wrote:
         | My understanding is that the problem with high
         | bandwidth/resolution setups over displayport (which may not be
         | your use case) is _in your mac_ , not in your hub. Older
         | comment thread here
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29214726
        
           | fatnoah wrote:
           | I'm totally not suprised by this. I'm using USB-C between the
           | hub and the monitor, and that seems to be working fine, so I
           | basically haven't thought too much about it.
        
       | vinhboy wrote:
       | > It honestly feels like no matter what you buy, you get more or
       | less the same hardware, and you're most likely getting a heavily
       | overpriced product just because some company printed their logo
       | on it.
       | 
       | Isn't this like a known thing? Almost all peripherals on Amazon
       | will have dozens of the exact same form-factor with different
       | logos on it. You just buy the one that is the perfect
       | intersection of costs, positive reviews, and shipping time. The
       | assumption is that they all come from the same factory in China
       | anyways.
        
         | ugjka wrote:
         | if you go for cheap, you might get someone selling stuff with
         | manufacturing defects
        
         | aendruk wrote:
         | The most frustrating part is that I want _no_ logo. It's the
         | worst of both worlds; no brand reputation, yet still covered in
         | ads.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | While not the ideal solution to your needs, I've found that
           | Brasso does a great job of removing logos from electronics
           | with a little elbow grease.
           | 
           | I've used it on my LG television, my Levoit air cleaning
           | machines, and other devices.
        
             | avar wrote:
             | Or acetone a.k.a. the pure form of nail polish remover.
        
         | blowski wrote:
         | A lot of the time, sure, this is exactly what happens. But
         | other times, there is a distinct difference in quality. How do
         | you know when you're in situation A or B? You can't trust the
         | reviews. You can't even trust that the seller will send you the
         | advertised product half the time.
        
         | wnevets wrote:
         | Amazon is just the dollar store on the internet where every
         | product has 4+ stars.
        
         | jvanderbot wrote:
         | Just to expand on this: I suspect and have been told that
         | almost all powertools follow this model. The markup for most
         | tools in the same class is essentially branding only.
        
           | manyxcxi wrote:
           | It's _mostly_ kinda sorta like that. There are broad groups
           | that are basically the same; Craftsman and Dewalt being owned
           | by Black and Decker, for instance. But it's a crazy web
           | depending on particular tools or features it goes from a
           | couple root manufacturers to a dozen or so. But there's a lot
           | of BS.
           | 
           | Pro Tool Reviews did a big break down [0] a while ago that
           | was very eye opening for me. It could easily be out of date
           | by now but I had no clue how deep the groupings went at the
           | time.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-
           | who-...
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | This is mainly because power-tool quality across the board
           | has greatly increased - once you're into a "band" they're
           | much the same, though there are differences it's usually one
           | of "focus" not of quality.
           | 
           | If you're dealing with off-brand or no-brand tools, you can
           | still end up with something entirely usable but crappy. The
           | prices usually tell most of the story.
        
         | ineedasername wrote:
         | > _costs, positive reviews, and shipping time_
         | 
         | Yes, this. There are a few exceptions, thing like ssd drives,
         | ram, sd cards, etc which I buy from companies that I know
         | manufacture their own. For random peripherals, I just make sure
         | it's Amazon Prime so there won't be any hassle if/when I need
         | to return them.
         | 
         | I make an exception for earphones. Unless you're buying off-
         | brand, you can be pretty certain that you're not getting white
         | labelled. I'm listening to an audio book on Shure TW2's w/
         | se215 heads attached... not much chance that's white labelled.
         | Same for the lower quality but also lower profile Galaxy Buds
         | Live that I use as well.
        
       | djrogers wrote:
       | This may sound a bit pedantic here, but this statement:
       | 
       | " I'm writing this on an Apple MacBook Pro, and all I got was
       | four lousy USB-C ports"
       | 
       | Is wildly inaccurate, as the author demonstrates in his
       | conclusions where he explains that he's settled on a Thunderbolt
       | hub.
       | 
       | Yes, they're more expensive, and yes, they're harder to find, but
       | the fact is, for this type of use USB-C is kinda junky, and
       | Thunderbolt is a much better option.
        
         | dijit wrote:
         | This is not the conclusion.
         | 
         | the Dell TB16 is just about the worst docking station I've ever
         | used and that was Thunderbolt 3, and their USB-C equivalent
         | (WD16 iirc) worked flawlessly.
         | 
         | Likely if you tore down the TB16 you would find the chip
         | mentioned in TFA.
        
           | olyjohn wrote:
           | I've dealt with a number of these docks. And yeah, it's a
           | Realtek NIC on them, and it's a total piece of crap. Endless
           | issues with these docks, firmware updates, new drivers
           | constantly... None of it ever helps.
           | 
           | I tried using it on my Mac. But it's on some kind of an Apple
           | blacklist and won't work on Macs. There was some way to
           | enable it, by turning off system protection or some shit...
           | But even then, you could not get all the functionality.
        
             | AshamedCaptain wrote:
             | I have never gotten the TB16 to work on anything other than
             | Dells of around the same era. I don't think it's Apple
             | blacklisting it, but rather the dock whitelisting things.
        
           | AshamedCaptain wrote:
           | Yes, the TB16 does use a RTL8153, but so does the WD16. This
           | is the USB part which is common to both.
        
         | ApolIllo wrote:
         | I agree - Thunderbolt is the way to go. It's typically 2 - 3x
         | the price of a USB-C dock, but it's well worth it for me.
         | 
         | I have the TBT3-UDV and caldigit TS4 TBolt dock. They both rely
         | on DC power supplies and higher quality components (intel NIC,
         | for example). Both have been very stable over the last year for
         | the TS4 and 3 yrs for the TBT3.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Thunderbolt _is_ the way to go - my AKiTiO Thunder3 Dock Pro
         | has been doing fine driving monitors and 10GB /s ethernet.
        
       | Kalanos wrote:
       | Even with a 2014 macbook I still have to run an oldschool USB hub
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | I never saw a multifunctional USB 3 hub (that has anything more
       | than USB 3 sockets) where all the features worked on Windows.
       | 
       | One could blame: Windows, crap hardware from Dell, and crap hub
       | hardware. I think it is all three.
        
         | vel0city wrote:
         | I'm currently using a Lenovo Hybrid USB-C dock in Windows. Dual
         | displays, ethernet, USB-3, USB-C, USB 2.0, audio, all working
         | fine and have been for >2 years. Its worked with several
         | different models of laptops without having to manually install
         | any additional drivers and software.
         | 
         | As a note though, its a DisplayLink dock. There's definitely
         | performance implications on using a DisplayLink device versus
         | USB-C alternate mode, but on the other hand its never had
         | problems with the several Windows devices I've used it with.
         | 
         | https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/dock...
        
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