[HN Gopher] Why we've canceled flights, and what we are doing to...
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       Why we've canceled flights, and what we are doing to get back on
       track
        
       Author : aoetalks
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2022-04-11 21:32 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.alaskaair.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.alaskaair.com)
        
       | kepler1 wrote:
       | Why is it that in even in an explanation about flight delays,
       | pilot staffing, shortages, we have to inject a political
       | statement that "... we founded a program to develop and support
       | BIPOC pilots..."?
        
       | hindsightbias wrote:
       | When your basic right seater needs a minimum of 1500 hours flight
       | time, maybe your career path should include a salary higher than
       | a union bus driver.
        
         | totalview wrote:
         | Yeah, they make way more than any bus driver.
         | 
         | "An Alaska Airlines captain, according to a news release from
         | the airline, averages about $341,000 a year, but pilots say
         | it's not just about money"
         | 
         | https://www.alaskasnewssource.com/2022/04/04/cancellations-c...
         | 
         | FWIW I just traveled on 4 flights with Alaska Air and this
         | didn't impact us at all.
        
           | sparrish wrote:
           | Right seat != left seat. Check salary of first officers.
        
         | faangiq wrote:
         | You will earn nothing. And you will be happy.
        
         | bumper_crop wrote:
         | Airlines in America are traditionally extremely capital
         | intensive, and the customers are very price sensitive. (e.g.
         | "If you want to be a Millionaire, start with a billion dollars
         | and launch a new airline.") The low salary and unfavorable
         | hours pilots face really originate at the customer level, with
         | most people being unwilling to pay higher ticket prices. It's
         | easy to blame airlines here, but that's a mental shortcut that
         | doesn't represent the truth.
        
           | bumblebritches5 wrote:
        
           | tmp_anon_22 wrote:
           | Would Airlines be so capital intensive if not for the
           | security theatre of the TSA and all its related expenses?
        
             | seanmcdirmid wrote:
             | Yes. TSA security theater is all paid for with a specific
             | line item on your ticket. It is not that expensive:
             | 
             | > The fee is currently $5.60 per one-way trip in air
             | transportation that originates at an airport in the U.S.,
             | except that the fee imposed per round trip shall not exceed
             | $11.20
             | 
             | The rest is covered by tax payers, not airliners
             | specifically.
             | 
             | https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/testimony/2020/03/03/examini
             | n...
        
             | ceeplusplus wrote:
             | Yes. During COVID multiple airlines either almost went
             | bankrupt or suffered huge losses because most of the cost
             | of flying is depreciation of the airplanes themselves.
             | That's why even though the US govt paid for airline
             | employees' wages and fuel costs were 0 because no one was
             | flying during COVID, airlines still suffered big losses.
        
         | iooi wrote:
         | Pilots at the majors earn 200k-500k. There's evidence of some
         | pilots hitting seven figures. How much does a bus driver make?
        
           | ericbarrett wrote:
           | Pilots not flying major routes for major airlines make less,
           | in some cases a lot less ($30-40k a year).
        
             | jabedude wrote:
             | How is this information relevant on a discussion about a
             | pilot shortage affecting a major carrier?
        
           | uoaei wrote:
           | Right seat is the first officer / copilot. Not the pilot. You
           | must spend a long time as a copilot before advancing to the
           | pilot role.
        
       | nathanaldensr wrote:
       | > _10,000 pilots left the airline industry_
       | 
       | Hmm. I wonder. Why. That was. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......
        
         | reedjosh wrote:
         | "To know who rules over you, simply find out who you are not
         | allowed to criticize."
        
           | evan_ wrote:
           | wow I had no idea society was ruled over by children with
           | leukemia. Learn something new every day.
        
             | reedjosh wrote:
             | Children with Leukemia are mega whiny.
        
         | monitron wrote:
         | Sorry, I'm dense...what is this comment referring to?
        
           | reedjosh wrote:
           | https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/01/alaska-airlines-employees-
           | ne...
        
             | uoaei wrote:
             | From the subheadline:
             | 
             | > more than 97% of its staff received at least one shot
             | after the deadline this week.
             | 
             | If pilots and copilots are massively, _massively_ over-
             | represented in the remaining 3%, you might have a point,
             | but that is a huge and unsupported assumption.
        
           | newacc9 wrote:
           | vax mandates. pilot deaths are up 4x yoy.
        
             | kossTKR wrote:
             | I don't get this - is the vaccine killing the pilots? Why
             | is pilot deaths up 4x and what is the source?
        
               | nukemaster wrote:
               | It might not be as deadly as some people are saying but
               | it's more deadly than all the previous ones combined. The
               | data is still coming in.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | I assume it's because if you're not a senior captain in a major
         | airline, most pilots earn very low wages and work long hours.
         | Though it may be tempting to blame vaccine mandates depending
         | on your ideology.
        
           | reedjosh wrote:
           | An article posted below:
           | 
           | https://www.alaskasnewssource.com/2022/04/04/cancellations-c.
           | ..
           | 
           | > An Alaska Airlines captain, according to a news release
           | from the airline, averages about $341,000 a year, but pilots
           | say it's not just about money -- they also want work rule
           | changes, job security and scheduling flexibility.
           | 
           | So, money doesn't seem to be it alone...
           | 
           | > work rule changes
           | 
           | interesting.
        
             | uoaei wrote:
             | What's interesting is how hard people struggle to force a
             | narrative that isn't there.
        
               | reedjosh wrote:
               | If you find that interesting, have you investigated why
               | _people_ do it?
        
         | bpodgursky wrote:
         | That which cannot be questioned, isn't.
        
         | jmcgough wrote:
         | Probably because they furloughed a good chunk of them, and it
         | gave them the time and space to decide they didn't want to go
         | back to their miserable, underpaid job.
        
       | m1gu3l wrote:
       | Not alaska air but: Currently stuck from a flight canceled on
       | Saturday, next available flight out is Thursday night. I've gone
       | through every state of rage and have settled on just never flying
       | again when i get home.
        
       | unsupp0rted wrote:
       | I love this. It feels like only in America (perhaps Canada,
       | Aus/NZ, and parts of Northern/Western Europe?) would a company
       | cop in direct terms to screwing up and needing to do better.
       | 
       | There's little (but not zero) PR-speak here and little (but not
       | zero) passive voice or blame on uncontrollable circumstances:
       | it's a decent enough post-mortem.
       | 
       | In most countries, especially in East Asia or central/Eastern
       | Europe, I never see companies say in public "we messed up and
       | here's how". It's always caused by acts of god, unforeseeable
       | industry conditions, etc. It's never mea culpa.
       | 
       | But speaking of Canada, it'll be a cold day in hell before Air
       | Canada ever admits to being the worst major airline in the
       | developed world.
        
         | talal7860 wrote:
         | > But speaking of Canada, it'll be a cold day in hell before
         | Air Canada ever admits to being the worst major airline in the
         | developed world.
         | 
         | I wouldn't agree more.
        
       | Marazan wrote:
       | Liking the passive voice which manages to mention Omicron and
       | illness in the same sentence without actually saying the staff
       | were sick with Covid.
        
         | nukemaster wrote:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=660ZCEhvbnw
        
       | p0wn wrote:
       | Flying sucks. Flights are always packed and the seats are too
       | close together for comfort. I wonder if a plane was packed with
       | all first class seats how expensive the tickets would be.
        
         | chrisseaton wrote:
         | > I wonder if a plane was packed with all first class seats how
         | expensive the tickets would be.
         | 
         | It's pretty normal to have all lie-flat business/first-class
         | flights between major business centres such as New York and
         | London. You wouldn't know about them unless you were booking a
         | first-class ticket in the first place, so they're not very
         | visible.
         | 
         | I think the prices are the same as normal? Otherwise nobody
         | would use them, of course.
        
         | andrejguran wrote:
         | they're not if you're willing to pay extra for comfort
        
         | atdrummond wrote:
         | I used to fly a route from London City to JFK (with a stopover
         | in Shannon) and a similar route from Newark to Singapore. Both
         | were competitively priced with the business class seats on the
         | 3 class birds on similar routes. In the case of the former, it
         | was much slower than the larger jets, so I assume that put
         | downward pressure on the flight price. For the Newark flight, I
         | think the departing airport being Newark also helped contribute
         | to slightly lower fares than say if it was JFK to SIN.
         | 
         | Having worked in the industry previously, I'm not sure there
         | are many city pairs where all business works but carriers such
         | as La Compagnie have made it work for at least stretches at a
         | time.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | Double, more or less, if the sole requirement was to have the
         | same revenue per flight for a full plane. E.g. a small short
         | haul aircraft with, say, 35 rows of economy class (six across)
         | would end up with 30 rows of first class (four across). That
         | cuts capacity by about half.
         | 
         | But some people will pay more for comfort. And most regular
         | people are _incredibly_ price sensitive, they 'll suffer quite
         | a lot just to save even 10 bucks on an airline ticket, so your
         | hypothetical airline doing this strategy went bankrupt.
        
         | yabones wrote:
         | I would love if blimp travel would come back, so long as you
         | get more personal space. A modern airship could make the
         | transatlantic trip in about 24-36 hours, so it doesn't really
         | matter for casual vacation travel. It would be quite relaxing,
         | just floating across the ocean with a nice cup of tea and a
         | good book in a small but cozy cabin.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Once the "fastest possible" is broken zeppelin travel offers
           | significant energy savings - it can ride the Gulf Stream and
           | spend most of the actual energy positioning itself correctly
           | there. They could even be designed as sails to catch more.
        
         | lisper wrote:
         | Here is a good analysis of why the situation will never
         | improve:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll92ud6Nufw
        
         | drstewart wrote:
         | That experiment existed, it was called the Concorde
        
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       (page generated 2022-04-11 23:00 UTC)