[HN Gopher] Never hose out a Honda Element ___________________________________________________________________ Never hose out a Honda Element Author : gkop Score : 122 points Date : 2022-04-12 21:10 UTC (1 hours ago) (HTM) web link (fifthelementcamping.com) (TXT) w3m dump (fifthelementcamping.com) | [deleted] | danchoe wrote: | I was curious so I looked up what the floor of an Element looks | like: https://i.imgur.com/Q3zlB6M.jpg | | Looks like it's meant to catch all the spills from the rear | passenger section but applying any water to the front is no | bueno. | | Note to self: don't buy a used Element. | smm11 wrote: | Test-drove one when they came out, and I was told you could hose | them out. We said it would be an ideal vehicle to carry bicycles, | and the sales guy said "I can do you one better. You can not only | carry bicycles, but you can hose out the inside when you get | home!" | duxup wrote: | I would love if I could hose out my car or , house, but I would | be pretty skeptical if someone told me I could. | caycep wrote: | that's sad...it would be the perfect vehicle from a form factor | standpoint to do this. Would that they could just spend the extra | production bux to put extra rustproofing and drain holes in it | for this... | bin_bash wrote: | I agree. Wranglers have drain holes and it seems to me there | would be a market for a less offroad capable, more practical | car with similar water resistance. | jacquesm wrote: | That's not that simple, actually. Drain holes by themselves are | going to allow moisture _in_ to the car as well, and being | holes the edges will need to be protected, usually drain holes | will have some rubber insert for that. But then they are no | longer flush, so some water will pool. I 've welded plenty of | car bottoms where moisture had done a very thorough job of | rusting things out, drain holes are typically a fantastic way | to get a problem, rarely a way to solve a problem. | | Some convertibles have this done the right way, but there the | whole car is designed from the ground up for this, and that | includes the upholstery, the electronics placement, the way the | cables are routed and so on. If that isn't the case your best | bet is to keep moisture and fluids on the other side of the | bodywork. | [deleted] | bendbro wrote: | If you hose it out and it rusts, the problem of no drain holes is | fixed, right? | luma wrote: | I'm curious how this is currently the top story on HN. A now- | discontinued and otherwise entirely unremarkable family vehicle | is not able to be inundated with water without serious | consequences, much like the overwhelming majority of passenger | vehicles made before or since. | | Who is the audience for this? | [deleted] | everly wrote: | It's mostly the Mandela-esque effect of everyone seeming to | remember it being a supposedly washable interior. | | Plus the Element sort of has an outsized place in American | popular car culture, not unlike the Pontiac Aztek. That's my | best guess anyway. Hard to explain but it makes sense to me | seeing it here. | function_seven wrote: | Yeah you nailed it. Until just now I thought you could hose | these things out. I thought that was the entire point of the | plastic interior: hoseability. | | Like public bathrooms with central drain and continuous tile | from the floor and up the wall. | | I've never owned an Element--I hope that if I did, I'd figure | out the truth of this myth--but it's definitely a very common | one. | numbsafari wrote: | > entirely unremarkable family vehicle | | That's blasphemy right there. | | It's the best of a group Of vehicles designed by Boomers for | millennials that ended up only being bought by Boomers, since | discontinued for no good reason. | | Honda's major sin here was not updating it with modern | electronics or a more efficient engine. | | It is smaller than the current CR-V. | | Such a shame. | bloomingeek wrote: | I agree, the Element was a great vehicle, I think it was a | little overpriced, but it is a Honda. I would love an updated | version now that I can afford one. | HWR_14 wrote: | > vehicles designed by Boomers for millennials | | As I recall, they were designed by Boomers for younger | versions of themselves, and priced for Boomers wanting to | feel young again. That, of course, necessitated ads | theoretically aimed at millennials | drums8787 wrote: | I'd buy an updated Element in a minute. Meanwhile I'm holding | on to the one I have. And I'd never hose it down. | jacquesm wrote: | They did in fact update the engine (at least once). I tried | finding one here in Europe but they are pretty much | impossible to come by unless you want to import one from the | USA which has a ton of problems for a car that is not | officially carried here. | numbsafari wrote: | I put 250k miles on an '08 before, very reluctantly, | selling it to a kid for his first vehicle. | | The '08 had been "updated". | | But they never offered it with factory installed nav, | despite having a very "ahead of its times" sound system. It | also had terrible gas mileage. | | Sure, it was less aerodynamic than a Mac truck, but Honda | could have revisited it. | | Much like my dearly departed Vanagon, there's nothing new | like it on the market. | jacquesm wrote: | I have a VW Transporter that started life as a taxi cab. | 9 seater, rubberized floor. I put a longer 5th gear in it | and removed the LNG system (ridiculous taxes otherwise), | it's pretty economic and can haul a ton of stuff. The | whole neighborhood here uses it :) | | It being an ex taxi bi-fuel I bought it super cheap with | low mileage. | ramesh31 wrote: | > A now-discontinued and otherwise entirely unremarkable family | vehicle | | The Honda Element was a very special car. I never understood it | until I spent time with a friend who has owned one for years. | They have a cult following for good reason. You can fit full | size furniture in the cargo bay, while still parking in a | compact spot. With people piled in the back, you can easily | carry 6 passengers at double the MPG of a full size SUV or van. | The handling is tight and smooth; nothing like an SUV or truck. | The clearance is equivalent to a Wrangler. And Honda | reliability means these things are still on the road in perfect | condition at 300k+ miles. I could go on and on, but suffice to | say the Element was not "just" an unremarkable family vehicle. | It absolutely _nailed_ a utilitarian niche that no other | vehicle has come close to before or since. | freetime2 wrote: | I have never owned, or even considered buying a Honda Element. | But I have heard the rumor that they can be hosed out, and I | know they have a bit of a cult following, so that was enough to | arouse my curiosity. I clicked the link, had some previously | held misconception dispelled, and saw some images of a rusted | out element. All in all I was not disappointed. | Douger wrote: | And yet we've clicked on it! | devy wrote: | It looks like this is a Honda Element fan site. But I wonder if | floor panel rusting is a design flaw, how come the lawyers | haven't all jump on the class action suit bandwagon... | cpsns wrote: | Floor panels rust if they end up in constant contact with | dampness, it's not a design flaw so much as the expected | result. You should never let the floor inside the car stay | damp/wet. | | In places where salt is heavily used on roads new floor pans | are something you'll see regularly completely rusted out. | kllrnohj wrote: | Unless Honda advertised or recommended hosing it out, what | would lawyers go after? As far as I know Honda themselves | didn't advertise this, it was some odd public myth that spread | rapidly | not_the_fda wrote: | The user manual specifically says not to hose it out. | qbasic_forever wrote: | It's steel, it will rust. No one would want to spend the huge | increase in cost for a fully stainless steel car. DeLorean | tried! | Aloha wrote: | That's not even really severe rust - most of it is just surface, | easy to treat it with naval jelly/rust neutralizer. | kube-system wrote: | The second photo shows two large holes in the driver footwell | and one in the passenger side. The last 4 photos show where it | was cut out and patched. It's not difficult to patch with some | sheet metal and a welder, but it's labor intensive. | jacquesm wrote: | It can get difficult in a hurry if the rusted out spots are | near where wiring is sandwiched between the various metal | parts. I've done my share of repairs like these and if you | only end up doing what you think you'll be doing when you | start the job then consider yourself lucky. | gedy wrote: | Random FYI, but the article shows repairs using POR15 paint. It's | pretty nasty to work with, and I highly recommend MasterSeries | paint as an alternative: http://masterseriesct.com | | No affiliation, just learned the hard way with my 1960s VW | Beetle. | kcb wrote: | Reminded me where I have seen POR-15 before. Seems to be good | stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag46YUovPUc | jacquesm wrote: | I use a single component moisture cure coating made for the | maritime applications and it is awesome. | murderfs wrote: | Especially after defragmenting your wife | jacquesm wrote: | That was a Civic... and that reference is in pretty poor taste. | byoung2 wrote: | My wife had a 2006 Element. The salesman at the dealer told that | hose it out lie. A quick Google search back then debunked it, | thankfully. | kipchak wrote: | Honda described the element as having an easy to wipe down | utility floor, and waterproof seat fabric. I think somewhere | along the line that merged into waterproof floor in peoples | minds. | | https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5505836ae4b015246aa27... | riffic wrote: | stick it in a bag of rice | chrisseaton wrote: | I don't get it - would you would think you can hose out a | consumer car like this, with the fabric seats and all that | plastic trim? I've hosed out Land Rovers, but they're clearly an | off-road vehicle designed for wading. | Barrera wrote: | It's in the video embedded at the bottom. What appears to be a | representative of Honda says the following about the then- | concept car (0:40): | | "It's got kind of a wash-and-wear interior. You can kind of | completely hose out the interior if you wanted to." | assttoasstmgr wrote: | "I hit a skunk, Karen" | mmaunder wrote: | This is why "kind of" is such a popular caveat. | cookie_monsta wrote: | And why "if you wanted to" is such a brilliant disclaimer. | uuyi wrote: | Having driven Land Rovers in the form of series, defender and | discovery, I wouldn't hose one out either. The upholstery rots | and stinks and the fittings go rusty too. If you're doing | wading and off road stuff you need to tear the entire guts out | and start again. And then the bulkhead equipped vehicles will | fall to bits within a few years as well. | chrisseaton wrote: | I've been hosing out my Defenders and wading them above the | door seals for years and there's no significant rust yet. | They have rubber floor mats instead of upholstery. But they | are maintained professionally. | lb1lf wrote: | If memory serves - I have never put it to the test - my | HZJ78 Land Cruiser owner's manual says wading depth is | 700mm (doors closed), 875mm (doors open) - presumably the | added depth with doors open is down to the reduced | buoyancy. | | Part of me really wants to try it out once, though. | chrisseaton wrote: | I think the new Defender is 900mm doors closed, which is | pretty deep! | uuyi wrote: | You won't find it until your foot goes through something or | something falls off. I had a 1990 defender 90 which was 8 | years old and the bulkhead was invisibly rotten in various | places. That got very expensive very quickly. A friend has | a more modern 110 that's only 6 years old and has the same | problem. | | This is not an issue in some areas and dry climates as a | rule but in the UK it sucks owning one. | | I don't own one now. I drive a little French go cart then I | use my legs for off road. They last longer, don't go rusty | and run on dried fruit and sandwiches. | shubb wrote: | A lot of Landrovers used in off roady places around the world | are ex-army models. Maybe they were more water tolerantly | trimmed. E.g. at one point you could buy Landrover Rover Wolf | fairly cheap I think | uuyi wrote: | Not really. The wolfs suck. 24v electrics and stripped bare | of everything even remotely nice. And yes they go rusty | too. They mostly tend to survive in desert climates longer | as they are surrounded by desiccants and clever engineers | who can weld things that fell off back on again. | ungamedplayer wrote: | Stripped bare is a feature. Less shit that can go wrong. | drewzero1 wrote: | It was very widely reported that the car interior was designed | to be washed with a hose. That would have been a big selling | point for me except that it only had four seats, and it looked | like a shed. | ungamedplayer wrote: | It's barely a shed. Check out the cybertruck for something | that looks like a backyard shed. | mmaunder wrote: | Only time I hosed out a car is my uncle's car when it ended up | in the ocean. Was low-tide and tons of seagrass on the boat | launch. Lost traction and just slowly slid all the way into the | ocean. Actually turned out OK after a serious fresh-water bath | and carefully drying out everything. | | Hosing out a car under normal circumstances is insane. I | recently worked on a Dodge 12V diesel 1994 truck. Removed all | interior carpet and WIPED out all the nastiness and vacuumed up | the bits etc. Got it down to the metal and really nice and | clean. Then layered up on Dynamat in prep for installing a | high-end sound system and got a great result. | | Unless you've destroyed the vehicle anyway by dipping it in | sea-water, don't hose out your car. | | A really great check to do if you're buying used is to look | under the driver's seat for rust. It indicates flooding. In the | case of pickups, it means they either submerged it or used it | as a mudder. Red flag. Walk away. | mortenjorck wrote: | The author references the "hose" comment in the 1998 unveiling | of the concept car that would become the Element, but I think | they greatly underplay the degree to which this idea caught on | with the public and in the press, especially in non-automotive | publications. | | I'm pretty sure it was an issue of Wired in the early 2000s | where I read about this futuristic new SUV from Honda with, | among other clever details, "a floor you could hose down." It | became an unofficial selling point for the Element, and I would | imagine most people exposed to the meme never knew the vehicle | was not in fact designed for such a use until they saw this | blog post. | kube-system wrote: | Wranglers have fabric and plastic trim, and they specifically | advertise that the floor can be hosed out. The difference is | that it has drains (and floor != seat). | djrogers wrote: | They do not advertise that (at least not in North America) - | the carpet will get ruined. | oceanplexian wrote: | I ripped all the carpet out of my older Jeep and bedlinered | the interior floor pan. When the top is off an the interior | is covered in mud "wipe it with a damp cloth" isn't a viable | strategy, now it's much easier to clean. | yazboo wrote: | I don't know where the meme came from but I've heard it from | two independent Honda Element owners, and it comes up on random | SEO-spam blogs as a benefit of the Element if you're searching | for "dog-friendly" cars. I never thought to question it myself | - the trunk area does look like something you could hit with a | hose. Glad this made #1 on Hacker News before I bought one! | caymanjim wrote: | The whole floor is covered by a plastic sheet. It looks like | it's safe to hose out, and unless it's damaged, it will hold | pools of water. I never intentionally hosed out the whole | interior of mine, but I did spray a lot of water around the | front seats when I first got the car from someone who never | cleaned it. The water pooled up to the point that I had to | scoop it out and towel the rest. I suspect it was a bad idea, | but if you saw it you'd think it's the best way to clean it. | stjohnswarts wrote: | because you wouldn't hose it out with everything in it, only | after you removed the seats and such. personally I never would, | as it doesn't take that much extra elbow grease to just use a | pail and wash cloth/dry cloth. | Wistar wrote: | About 2005 or so a co-worker bought a new Toyota FJ Cruiser, | kept it for a week and then showed up with a Honda Element. | When I asked him why he said, "The FJ is just too fussy. I go | hiking and fishing with the dogs and, with this Element, I can | just hose it out." | | Apparently not. | bstar77 wrote: | I was looking at one of these at the dealership in the early | 2000's and the sales guy told me I could just hose it out after | a day at the beach. It seemed plausible considering there was | no carpeting and the seats could be folded up. | cowmix wrote: | Yup, I heard the same thing. | | My buddy bought one and he would hose his out all the time. | seanalltogether wrote: | My roommate did the same. I remember him telling me that | was one of the key reasons he bought it as he was an avid | camper and would take the dog along and let everything get | dirty then hose it out. | anamax wrote: | I remember being told that hosing out an Element would ruin the | electrics, that they aren't sealed. | | Rust too eh. | bloomingeek wrote: | Early 70's and before pickup trucks could be hosed out, but when | you were finished you needed to "broom" out the excess water. | These were the trucks which had regular floor mats, just leave | the two doors open for a little while to air out the cab. | tannedNerd wrote: | I had one and remember hearing the rumor but seeing how run off | from snow would pool I never believed it. Still one of the best | and most utilitarian cars I ever owned. Beach day, snow day, | moving it did it all. Especially with the fold up seats! | dole wrote: | Loved ours until it got in a wreck, still consider picking a | used one up. My only complaint ever was the 4-cyl being | underpowered. | | Folded the seats up to the sides, moved a full-sized clothes | washer and dryer upright in the back, a lot roomier than it | looks. (Edit: I luckily was not dumb enough to hose it out.) | gotaquestion wrote: | I don't know how many times I promoted this myth, and I never | even owned one. Ironically, I really want one now because | conversion vans are way too expensive, and Elements had great | clearance, space, and 4WD. I hope they make a comeback. | ourmandave wrote: | There's a Element group on Facebook where people post ones for | sale. | | The admins insist on pics from every angle and ton of details | so there's nothing sketchy. Of course high miles are the norm | because the last model year was 10 years ago. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-04-12 23:00 UTC)