[HN Gopher] Job hunting while day-jobbing (2021) ___________________________________________________________________ Job hunting while day-jobbing (2021) Author : luu Score : 50 points Date : 2022-04-12 20:08 UTC (1 days ago) (HTM) web link (code.maiamccormick.com) (TXT) w3m dump (code.maiamccormick.com) | nuancebydefault wrote: | "Job hunting while day jobbing" is that a thing? For people who | have a day job and want to switch, I only see one real | alternative: "job hunting after having quit their job". The | alternative sounds more stressful to me. How is it any different | from doing any personal project, e.g.improving one's house while | having a day job? That said, the article has some good points, | like: don't panic, your boss will not notice it so easily, and if | so, it is not such a big deal -- you want to leave anyways. | Apocryphon wrote: | As difficult as it is to juggle a day job and interviews, | that's how most employed people switch jobs. And it's | particularly stressful in software, as that project is more | intensive than just interviews, but also involves technical | interview prep. | | Certainly, it's a shame that there's no short-term unemployment | benefits for those who want to leave a job and commit full-time | to finding a new one for a few months, while recovering from | burnout or just resting. | nuancebydefault wrote: | In Belgium, during the notice period, it is allowed to take | one day per week off for searching for a new job, while being | paid that day by your company. Even when the employee gave | their notice! What i mostly do is start the notice period | only just after signing the new contract. You're not obliged | to tell your old boss you already signed, so you can still | take those days off. | dgunay wrote: | For those earlier in their career/without a lot of confidence | built up, leaving your job without something lined up can be | scary, and it is now the easiest it has ever been to interview | on the job so why not keep the paychecks coming in? | nuancebydefault wrote: | Exactly my point. Even with built-up confidence, leaving | without a contract in hand feels too scary. | cebert wrote: | I wish interviewing wasn't so involved and instead folks could | enter trial periods with employers after some basic behavioral | interviews. | vasco wrote: | Most jobs have probation periods on top of the interviewing, | during which time it's way easier to fire an employee for any | reason. This might work differently in the US where I guess you | can always fire for any reason at any time regardless of | probation. | ghaff wrote: | Yes, but in practice, unless business conditions really | change or there's a major disconnect between you and the | company of some sort, it's a safe assumption that a | professional job will mostly set you up for a year or two. An | explicit we'll see how things go for the next couple of | months before we extend a real offer would set off a lot of | alarm bells. | axg11 wrote: | In the new remote tech world, it's easier than ever to interview | while on the job. Obviously it depends on your meeting load and | how regularly unplanned work/meetings arise. | | I have a suspicion this is another factor contributing to lower | retention rates across the industry. Before the pandemic, if a | recruiter contacted me I would have to weigh all the benefits of | the role against the hassle of interviewing, including figuring | out how to leave the office discreetly and potentially block off | consecutive days. Now, it's trivial for anyone to schedule | interviews during hours without meetings. | | Effectively, the bar for accepting an interview loop from a | candidate's point-of-view is lower when they are fully remote. | | On the flip side, if you're fully remote and find it difficult to | job hunt while working, then that's a good reason to leave! Your | role likely isn't giving you enough autonomy. | ryandrake wrote: | Finding a job is not just interviewing. It's a massive time | sink. Researching companies, filling out applications and web | forms, "quick" phone chats with recruiters who refuse to just | dump info over E-mail, re-studying fundamentals, grinding | leetcode or other skills prep, doing company take-home tests | and "challenges". And then for every 100 applications, you | might get interviews at 10 companies, producing 1 offer. It's | quite a bit of busy work, and if you have many work | deliverables or are booked solid in meetings 8:30 to 6:00, | you're not really going to have time to do it. I've always had | to take blocks of time off (vacation or unpaid time off) in | order to seriously get another job. | gibolt wrote: | The recruiter calls are the worst waste of time! On top of | that, if a recruiting agency sets you up, you're looking at | an additional call with each company recruiter and/or hiring | manager, before even starting to interview. | | On top of that, each individual call/interview takes up some | adjacent time to schedule + prep and occupies your headspace | until it happens. | cecilpl2 wrote: | This has not been my experience at all. My three most recent | job switches (over 5 years) have gone like this: | | 1. Ex-coworker or recruiter reaches out with an opportunity | that sounds interesting. | | 2. I ask for comp range and make sure it's acceptable (50%+ | increase). | | 3. I go through the interview loop and get an offer | | In there have been maybe 3-4 short recruiter calls that went | nowhere for fit or comp reasons. In my life, once I got to | the tech screen stage I have gotten an offer 6 out of 9 | times. | | Is this other people's experience as well? Maybe I have just | been extraordinarily lucky? | BlargMcLarg wrote: | Three times 50%? So 337.5%+ of your salary pre-first hop? I | assure you, the far majority will not just get offers for | that, if they can even find a job willing to make such a | jump in comp. They'll be looking for those offers | themselves. If only for the fact most devs are still in the | first 5 years of their career. | BlargMcLarg wrote: | >producing 1 offer | | And then the resulting offer isn't even on par with your | current comp. | | It's almost as if the entire thing is designed maliciously on | purpose. | grepLeigh wrote: | I've thought about piloting a temp personal assistant service | for software engineers during their job search. | | Imagine the following... | | - Recruiter outreach is filtered / summarized. | | - Recruiter phone screens are scheduled for you, batched | together. | | - Your assistant pre-screens for basic preferences: remote, | salary, company size, role scope/level. | | - Interview loops are scheduled for you. | | - Receive a packet of spaced repetition exercises (optional), | digest of Blind/Glassdoors messages, compensation data from | the company/industry/area. | | - Negotiation practice, coaching | | In my experience, "forwarding this to my assistant for | scheduling" is a power move. | | Some of above is handled by agency-style recruiting | (Cybercoders) but the quality of those leads is on the low | end. The high-end recruiting agencies focus on the employer | side of the equation. Feels like there's an interesting gap | for a service focused on a highly-skilled candidate's side of | the equation. | manesioz wrote: | When I was an intern at my first company, my term was nearing | it's end and I wanted to get another role elsewhere. | | I booked a small meeting room during work hours for an interview, | but as I was about to enter I noticed my boss was already in | there. I guess he didn't check the schedule. | | Panicking, I had 2 minutes until the interview and nowhere to | take it. I ended up going into the office gym and doing it on a | bench while someone was running on a treadmill in the background. | | Funny times, I ended up getting the offer too. | valleyjo wrote: | I couldn't do it. I tried but it was too difficult for me to find | a balance. | | I had to use my paternity leave to find a new job. if that didn't | work out I was going to quit after leave and continue looking | full time. I made a lot of sacrifices and thankfully it was worth | it in the end. But I realize so many folks can't make such | sacrifices. | kraftman wrote: | It was harder to interview while employed than while on | paternity leave? | yakak wrote: | I would like to assume having a kid wasn't just a ploy to get | paternity leave.. | saagarjha wrote: | No, it's definitely a ploy to get some time to interview | around. | dString wrote: | Do many companies ask for birth certificates? | ketzo wrote: | Honestly, this is just a great interview prep post in general, | day-job or no. | mhzsh wrote: | Yeah, I mean the part of doing this while having a job | shouldn't be rocket science: "I have an appointment" is usually | a good enough reason to take some time at the beginning or end | of day. | ketzo wrote: | Ehh.. the social norms around this are pretty ingrained. | People _do_ feel weird just saying "I have an appointment" | for a job interview -- even though, like you're saying, they | shouldn't. | | So I think writing like this, which explicitly spells out the | ways in which this person "violated" these silly social | norms, is good. It can kind of give people permission to do | something they already know they should be allowed to do. | hizxy wrote: | You're crazy. Do not tell a trusted coworker about your | intentions. It's a risk. Shut up and interview. What's the | benefit of telling anyone at your current gig? | nuancebydefault wrote: | If the coworker is your friend, why not? It has helped me | finding assurance and the coworkers even helped me finding a | new job. | hizxy wrote: | Because they could unintentionally leak that info to the | wrong people? I dunno I'm not that trusting. | drekipus wrote: | I agree with this and it's what I did when I changed my | employers. | | If they're your friends, you celebrate getting the job with | them. Don't tell them the plans beforehand because that is | just opening yourself up for problems. And you do end up | looking a bit worse if you keep trying to find new places | but not getting anywhere. | | _(Not to say to distrust your friends; it 's just that | people chat naturally. secrets never remain secret for | long.)_ | | I actually found my new job on stack overflow while i was | searching for something while at work. I applied, had a | month long interview, and I only told my friends when I was | up to the final stages of the interview. but we were a | cynical bunch and we were all lamenting to leave, so they | enjoyed the idea of the place falling apart after I left. | | I also told them a few of my failures earlier in the year, | so they knew what i was up to, but they often didn't have | specifics that someone else in the company could try and | pin me by. | vmception wrote: | Agreed! Not at the same company! | | If you really have noone outside of work to talk to && need to | then get a therapist, or a dog, or COD warzone buddies ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-04-13 23:00 UTC)