[HN Gopher] Job hunting while day-jobbing (2021)
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       Job hunting while day-jobbing (2021)
        
       Author : luu
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2022-04-12 20:08 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (code.maiamccormick.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (code.maiamccormick.com)
        
       | nuancebydefault wrote:
       | "Job hunting while day jobbing" is that a thing? For people who
       | have a day job and want to switch, I only see one real
       | alternative: "job hunting after having quit their job". The
       | alternative sounds more stressful to me. How is it any different
       | from doing any personal project, e.g.improving one's house while
       | having a day job? That said, the article has some good points,
       | like: don't panic, your boss will not notice it so easily, and if
       | so, it is not such a big deal -- you want to leave anyways.
        
         | Apocryphon wrote:
         | As difficult as it is to juggle a day job and interviews,
         | that's how most employed people switch jobs. And it's
         | particularly stressful in software, as that project is more
         | intensive than just interviews, but also involves technical
         | interview prep.
         | 
         | Certainly, it's a shame that there's no short-term unemployment
         | benefits for those who want to leave a job and commit full-time
         | to finding a new one for a few months, while recovering from
         | burnout or just resting.
        
           | nuancebydefault wrote:
           | In Belgium, during the notice period, it is allowed to take
           | one day per week off for searching for a new job, while being
           | paid that day by your company. Even when the employee gave
           | their notice! What i mostly do is start the notice period
           | only just after signing the new contract. You're not obliged
           | to tell your old boss you already signed, so you can still
           | take those days off.
        
         | dgunay wrote:
         | For those earlier in their career/without a lot of confidence
         | built up, leaving your job without something lined up can be
         | scary, and it is now the easiest it has ever been to interview
         | on the job so why not keep the paychecks coming in?
        
           | nuancebydefault wrote:
           | Exactly my point. Even with built-up confidence, leaving
           | without a contract in hand feels too scary.
        
       | cebert wrote:
       | I wish interviewing wasn't so involved and instead folks could
       | enter trial periods with employers after some basic behavioral
       | interviews.
        
         | vasco wrote:
         | Most jobs have probation periods on top of the interviewing,
         | during which time it's way easier to fire an employee for any
         | reason. This might work differently in the US where I guess you
         | can always fire for any reason at any time regardless of
         | probation.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | Yes, but in practice, unless business conditions really
           | change or there's a major disconnect between you and the
           | company of some sort, it's a safe assumption that a
           | professional job will mostly set you up for a year or two. An
           | explicit we'll see how things go for the next couple of
           | months before we extend a real offer would set off a lot of
           | alarm bells.
        
       | axg11 wrote:
       | In the new remote tech world, it's easier than ever to interview
       | while on the job. Obviously it depends on your meeting load and
       | how regularly unplanned work/meetings arise.
       | 
       | I have a suspicion this is another factor contributing to lower
       | retention rates across the industry. Before the pandemic, if a
       | recruiter contacted me I would have to weigh all the benefits of
       | the role against the hassle of interviewing, including figuring
       | out how to leave the office discreetly and potentially block off
       | consecutive days. Now, it's trivial for anyone to schedule
       | interviews during hours without meetings.
       | 
       | Effectively, the bar for accepting an interview loop from a
       | candidate's point-of-view is lower when they are fully remote.
       | 
       | On the flip side, if you're fully remote and find it difficult to
       | job hunt while working, then that's a good reason to leave! Your
       | role likely isn't giving you enough autonomy.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | Finding a job is not just interviewing. It's a massive time
         | sink. Researching companies, filling out applications and web
         | forms, "quick" phone chats with recruiters who refuse to just
         | dump info over E-mail, re-studying fundamentals, grinding
         | leetcode or other skills prep, doing company take-home tests
         | and "challenges". And then for every 100 applications, you
         | might get interviews at 10 companies, producing 1 offer. It's
         | quite a bit of busy work, and if you have many work
         | deliverables or are booked solid in meetings 8:30 to 6:00,
         | you're not really going to have time to do it. I've always had
         | to take blocks of time off (vacation or unpaid time off) in
         | order to seriously get another job.
        
           | gibolt wrote:
           | The recruiter calls are the worst waste of time! On top of
           | that, if a recruiting agency sets you up, you're looking at
           | an additional call with each company recruiter and/or hiring
           | manager, before even starting to interview.
           | 
           | On top of that, each individual call/interview takes up some
           | adjacent time to schedule + prep and occupies your headspace
           | until it happens.
        
           | cecilpl2 wrote:
           | This has not been my experience at all. My three most recent
           | job switches (over 5 years) have gone like this:
           | 
           | 1. Ex-coworker or recruiter reaches out with an opportunity
           | that sounds interesting.
           | 
           | 2. I ask for comp range and make sure it's acceptable (50%+
           | increase).
           | 
           | 3. I go through the interview loop and get an offer
           | 
           | In there have been maybe 3-4 short recruiter calls that went
           | nowhere for fit or comp reasons. In my life, once I got to
           | the tech screen stage I have gotten an offer 6 out of 9
           | times.
           | 
           | Is this other people's experience as well? Maybe I have just
           | been extraordinarily lucky?
        
             | BlargMcLarg wrote:
             | Three times 50%? So 337.5%+ of your salary pre-first hop? I
             | assure you, the far majority will not just get offers for
             | that, if they can even find a job willing to make such a
             | jump in comp. They'll be looking for those offers
             | themselves. If only for the fact most devs are still in the
             | first 5 years of their career.
        
           | BlargMcLarg wrote:
           | >producing 1 offer
           | 
           | And then the resulting offer isn't even on par with your
           | current comp.
           | 
           | It's almost as if the entire thing is designed maliciously on
           | purpose.
        
           | grepLeigh wrote:
           | I've thought about piloting a temp personal assistant service
           | for software engineers during their job search.
           | 
           | Imagine the following...
           | 
           | - Recruiter outreach is filtered / summarized.
           | 
           | - Recruiter phone screens are scheduled for you, batched
           | together.
           | 
           | - Your assistant pre-screens for basic preferences: remote,
           | salary, company size, role scope/level.
           | 
           | - Interview loops are scheduled for you.
           | 
           | - Receive a packet of spaced repetition exercises (optional),
           | digest of Blind/Glassdoors messages, compensation data from
           | the company/industry/area.
           | 
           | - Negotiation practice, coaching
           | 
           | In my experience, "forwarding this to my assistant for
           | scheduling" is a power move.
           | 
           | Some of above is handled by agency-style recruiting
           | (Cybercoders) but the quality of those leads is on the low
           | end. The high-end recruiting agencies focus on the employer
           | side of the equation. Feels like there's an interesting gap
           | for a service focused on a highly-skilled candidate's side of
           | the equation.
        
       | manesioz wrote:
       | When I was an intern at my first company, my term was nearing
       | it's end and I wanted to get another role elsewhere.
       | 
       | I booked a small meeting room during work hours for an interview,
       | but as I was about to enter I noticed my boss was already in
       | there. I guess he didn't check the schedule.
       | 
       | Panicking, I had 2 minutes until the interview and nowhere to
       | take it. I ended up going into the office gym and doing it on a
       | bench while someone was running on a treadmill in the background.
       | 
       | Funny times, I ended up getting the offer too.
        
       | valleyjo wrote:
       | I couldn't do it. I tried but it was too difficult for me to find
       | a balance.
       | 
       | I had to use my paternity leave to find a new job. if that didn't
       | work out I was going to quit after leave and continue looking
       | full time. I made a lot of sacrifices and thankfully it was worth
       | it in the end. But I realize so many folks can't make such
       | sacrifices.
        
         | kraftman wrote:
         | It was harder to interview while employed than while on
         | paternity leave?
        
           | yakak wrote:
           | I would like to assume having a kid wasn't just a ploy to get
           | paternity leave..
        
             | saagarjha wrote:
             | No, it's definitely a ploy to get some time to interview
             | around.
        
             | dString wrote:
             | Do many companies ask for birth certificates?
        
       | ketzo wrote:
       | Honestly, this is just a great interview prep post in general,
       | day-job or no.
        
         | mhzsh wrote:
         | Yeah, I mean the part of doing this while having a job
         | shouldn't be rocket science: "I have an appointment" is usually
         | a good enough reason to take some time at the beginning or end
         | of day.
        
           | ketzo wrote:
           | Ehh.. the social norms around this are pretty ingrained.
           | People _do_ feel weird just saying "I have an appointment"
           | for a job interview -- even though, like you're saying, they
           | shouldn't.
           | 
           | So I think writing like this, which explicitly spells out the
           | ways in which this person "violated" these silly social
           | norms, is good. It can kind of give people permission to do
           | something they already know they should be allowed to do.
        
       | hizxy wrote:
       | You're crazy. Do not tell a trusted coworker about your
       | intentions. It's a risk. Shut up and interview. What's the
       | benefit of telling anyone at your current gig?
        
         | nuancebydefault wrote:
         | If the coworker is your friend, why not? It has helped me
         | finding assurance and the coworkers even helped me finding a
         | new job.
        
           | hizxy wrote:
           | Because they could unintentionally leak that info to the
           | wrong people? I dunno I'm not that trusting.
        
             | drekipus wrote:
             | I agree with this and it's what I did when I changed my
             | employers.
             | 
             | If they're your friends, you celebrate getting the job with
             | them. Don't tell them the plans beforehand because that is
             | just opening yourself up for problems. And you do end up
             | looking a bit worse if you keep trying to find new places
             | but not getting anywhere.
             | 
             |  _(Not to say to distrust your friends; it 's just that
             | people chat naturally. secrets never remain secret for
             | long.)_
             | 
             | I actually found my new job on stack overflow while i was
             | searching for something while at work. I applied, had a
             | month long interview, and I only told my friends when I was
             | up to the final stages of the interview. but we were a
             | cynical bunch and we were all lamenting to leave, so they
             | enjoyed the idea of the place falling apart after I left.
             | 
             | I also told them a few of my failures earlier in the year,
             | so they knew what i was up to, but they often didn't have
             | specifics that someone else in the company could try and
             | pin me by.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | Agreed! Not at the same company!
         | 
         | If you really have noone outside of work to talk to && need to
         | then get a therapist, or a dog, or COD warzone buddies
        
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       (page generated 2022-04-13 23:00 UTC)