[HN Gopher] Panic Playdate Review
___________________________________________________________________
Panic Playdate Review
Author : wallflower
Score : 86 points
Date : 2022-04-19 07:41 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cnet.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cnet.com)
| causality0 wrote:
| It seems like Playdate reviews fall broadly into two categories:
| people that got it for free or stand to make money off it via
| their readers/viewers really like it. People who paid their own
| money for it and don't have a large audience think it's mediocre
| and mostly not worth the $180.
| airstrike wrote:
| $180??? That's highway robbery. I hadn't heard about it until I
| read this article and I was guessing it cost around $40
| esrauch wrote:
| Just 24 indie games from well-known indie devs would need to
| cost more than that
| ngngngng wrote:
| That's pretty insulting to the people that spend the better
| part of the last decade making this happen
| [deleted]
| tapoxi wrote:
| I mean, there's a third, the video game nerd who can afford a
| $180 toy. The fact that you get 24 games from well known indie
| developers makes it an easier pill to swallow.
|
| I might get a second revision of this. It's neat, but it needs
| a backlight.
| zitterbewegung wrote:
| I've watched reviews about it and the biggest problem is the
| lack of having a backlit screen . Only having 12 games is
| another issue (but anyone can develop the device ) but not
| having a backlit screen in 2021 is a huge problem because
| people play with handheld devices when it's dark sometimes .
| surewe wrote:
| It comes with 24 games (this was announced before preorders
| opened -- it was previously 12).
| kemayo wrote:
| They've also been recently promoting some third-party games
| you can sideload:
| https://twitter.com/playdate/status/1516864373473480705
| atdrummond wrote:
| I have one - well, at least for the moment. Played it in the
| super bright Bay Area sunlight today and had zero issues with
| legibility.
|
| This will really sink or swim dependent on how well those initial
| games deliver. If there's no true stinkers in the initial run, I
| suspect we'll see a strong long term development effort buoyed by
| ongoing consumer interest. It is a pretty neat little device and
| I know personally that I'm always a more creative developer when
| I have some legitimate, and significant, limitations on my
| resources.
| yakkityyak wrote:
| I would rather buy another Analogue Pocket over one of these.
| filmgirlcw wrote:
| I played with a prototype Playdate at Xoxo in 2019 and I was just
| delighted by it. It was already a gadget I knew I'd buy, because
| I love Panic and gadgets, but the time I spent with it was really
| fun.
|
| But I'm the target market I think, which is someone with lots of
| disposable income who wasn't looking for it to be anything more
| than it is. I think if you go in with the expectation that it is
| indie and quirky and NOT a mass-market product, it's easier to
| position to people.
|
| I don't have mine yet (I'm hoping it'll ship next week), but as
| long as it does what I saw three years ago, I think I'll be
| really pleased.
|
| Again, I don't think this has broad appeal. But I also don't
| think it has to. It's for the people it is for and I think that
| will be enough.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| Apparently you can't order one today even if you wanted to, so
| at the very least it does seem like Panic captured its expected
| market.
|
| I don't think this is for me, but given some of the developers'
| interests being peaked over this I am interested of what comes
| out of this.
| kemayo wrote:
| Yeah, I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone to look at
| it and go "$180 for _that_? It 's not worth it for me". It's
| very specifically-targeted.
|
| It does look cute, though, and if their SDK takes off I could
| see it being a really nice intro-to-programing tool entirely
| independent of Panic's own game-seasons thing. (I bought one. I
| won't be getting it for another 1-2 months, alas.)
| Gigachad wrote:
| So basically only good if you source your joy from spending
| large amounts on consumer products that give little lasting
| enjoyment.
|
| I can see how HN loves this thing
| nicolashahn wrote:
| I ordered one of these almost solely because I thought it'd be
| really fun to develop for.
| behnamoh wrote:
| Lost me at "no backlit display". Thanks, but no thanks.
| anyfoo wrote:
| I haven't seen it in person, but if it's the kind of display I
| think it is, it will look absolutely amazing and be better than
| most other equivalent backlit displays (and you don't need a
| good light source to make it readable).
| [deleted]
| jrootabega wrote:
| I'd be primarily interested in the crank mechanic, but it looks
| like getting enough of a grip on the other side to stabilize it
| would be a pain, and cranking will probably result in
| accidentally throwing the whole thing down.
| dgritsko wrote:
| I don't have any need for one of these. But this review makes me
| want one, it looks like a lot of fun. Anybody here have one yet?
| How does your experience compare?
| ngngngng wrote:
| Today was the first day any non reviewers have been receiving
| them. Mine should be here within the next day or two.
| dfee wrote:
| I bought one, and of course it hasn't arrived yet (though I think
| it will in Q3).
|
| The best parts for me are the following:
|
| 1. It's indie.
|
| 2. It's accessible.
|
| 3. It's got a completely different engagement model.
|
| I have a 7yo who I bought it for (really) and with the web drag-
| and-draw IDE, I can't think of a better way to get him involved
| in the exploration of technology. Maybe it can be fun and provide
| an outlet for deep exploration. I sure as hell am not going to
| sit down with him and explain the principles of enterprise
| architecture.
|
| For engagement models / indie-ism, we have a Switch and just got
| a PS5. They're neat. I guess. But they're also kinda stale and
| boring (outside a few winner games). Kinda like watching Disney
| these days with the Avengers series. Diminishing returns on every
| title and no real way to engage beyond consumption.
|
| I'm really hoping this is good for him (and good for me as a
| reset against my day to day as an engineer indoctrinated in the
| Bay Area ways of growth). To that end, the other comments I'm
| seeing don't seem to understand the appeal that has attracted me.
| [deleted]
| lapetitejort wrote:
| > 1. It's indie.
|
| Shamelessly, this is what I'm excited about most. There's some
| big little names attached to the project, and I'm excited how
| the limitations will stretch their creativity.
| fennecs wrote:
| Wow I am excited by cheap consumerist product! More plastic waste
| please!
| [deleted]
| mig39 wrote:
| I ordered mine at the beginning of August 2021. Still waiting for
| it to show up :-)
| rtkwe wrote:
| They sent out an email recently that said what wave you were in
| and a list of when the waves were expected to ship. I ordered
| mine at the very end of July '21, practically the first day
| iirc, and I'm wave 2 which is supposed to be this quarter.
| raldi wrote:
| How do you know Wave 2 is this quarter?
| eps wrote:
| It's on the website, linked from the account/order page.
|
| Basically, first 10000 are shipping now, next 10k will
| follow and that will exhaust their 20k first batch they are
| getting from the factory. The rest will follow later. And
| your order number is your spot in the delivery queue. Mine
| is in 15000s, so not long now :)
| kemayo wrote:
| All I've seen was this tweet thread:
| https://twitter.com/playdate/status/1516099269979262976
|
| Basically, they started shipping the Group One systems on
| Monday and say that they think they'll all be out within
| the next month. Presumably Group Two will ship after that,
| meaning they'll be shipping late May -- but they haven't
| actually announced that, just said there's news coming
| soon.
| ngngngng wrote:
| They said they should be done with group 1 within the next
| month and group 2 will start immediately after.
| SeanLuke wrote:
| To me, a critical quality of a handheld and portable gaming
| device is durability. In this light, a handcrank, with a fairly
| long shaft and a 90 degree handle, seems to be an incredibly
| stupid idea. It's just begging to get snagged on something and
| broken off. I wouldn't give this thing to my kids: they'd destroy
| it in a week. There are so many alternatives to a handcrank which
| aren't desperately fragile.
| nomel wrote:
| > seems to be an incredibly stupid idea
|
| It's on a floppy hinge, it's metal, and it folds in when you're
| not using it. Here's it in use:
| https://youtu.be/ZGdP59hhiDg?t=125
|
| Here's a teardown showing what looks like a very reasonable
| mechanical strain relief: https://youtu.be/J5G02ru0GyM?t=110
|
| > There are so many alternatives to a handcrank which aren't
| desperately fragile.
|
| It's not just for charging. It doubles as an input for the
| games.
|
| > I wouldn't give this thing to my kids: they'd destroy it in a
| week.
|
| This sounds like it may not be related to the device.
| DrTolley wrote:
| Just wanted to correct that the crank doesn't charge the
| device. It's just input.
| unwind wrote:
| I don't think it's for charging at all? It's an innovative
| rotational game input device, not a generator.
| paxys wrote:
| This looks like something I'll have an absolute blast with for a
| few hours and then keep away in a drawer and never touch again.
|
| Although if your product's target market is rich nerds that's a
| great strategy.
| xwdv wrote:
| That's generous, I would probably play for up to an hour, or
| less.
| tshaddox wrote:
| Same for me, although I'm the worst when it comes to that. I've
| done roughly the same thing with flagship gaming consoles and
| even an expensive custom-built (my me) gaming desktop.
| christoph wrote:
| I think the slow drip of games will prevent this initially, as
| you'll pick it up again every week or two to play whatever new
| titles drop in, even if only for an hour or two. I think by the
| end of the "season" there'll be a decent number of other whacky
| little titles from other developers that will be worth checking
| out for short bursts of play as well. I'm personally still
| excited to receive mine, some of the limitations will push
| creativity from developers and hopefully lead to some fun,
| unique little experiences you wouldn't find anywhere else.
| bombcar wrote:
| Compared to some forms of entertainment, $180 for a few hours
| isn't that bad. A flight in a small plane would run you way
| more than that.
| airstrike wrote:
| If anything, flying is more akin to torture than
| entertainment...
| patch_cable wrote:
| I think the parent was referring to a private plane that
| you pilot. 180 would about cover the expense of fuel for
| the hour.
| bombcar wrote:
| Yup, even if you never want to get a license you could
| spend $180 or so on an introductory flight or two for
| fun.
|
| WARNING: you will get addicted and end up spending
| $15-20k on a license.
| paxys wrote:
| See my point about rich nerds. If you are okay with spending
| a couple hundred bucks on something which you may throw away
| after a few hours - great, it's a fun quirky device made just
| for you. 99.9% of the planet does not fall into that
| demographic, however.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >99.9% of the planet does not fall into that demographic,
| however.
|
| to be pedantic, 0.1% of the planet is 8 million. There
| aren't a lot of non-essential products selling 7.92 billion
| of anything so this is an unreasonable bar.
|
| (and yes, I have no regrets being pedantic to a comment
| that comes down to "remember that you are a niche").
| bombcar wrote:
| Yeah, it's definitely a thing for a particular group.
|
| Then again, I suspect many raspberry pis meet the same
| fate; bought and played with for a few hours and then left
| to collect dust in a drawer somewhere.
| post_break wrote:
| *edit adding the review link:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGdP59hhiDg *
|
| This thing, I'll never forget John Gruber saying "The story is
| about Playdate, the most amazing and exciting product
| announcement, for me, since the original iPhone." I don't know if
| I could roll my eyes harder without getting a headache. Is this
| thing some sort of techie inside joke?
|
| Then reviewers get their hands on them. Metal Jesus on YouTube
| recently got to test one and it confirmed everything I needed to
| know. It's expensive. The screen isn't backlit so you've got OG
| gameboy issues. And it's a complete chore to hold. He was
| complaining about hand cramps after a little bit of play time.
| And the screen resolution is so low that some of the gameplay is
| hindered.
|
| But it has a hand crank: https://i.imgur.com/wBmESKj.jpg
| wlesieutre wrote:
| You need light to see it yes, but that screen is nowhere near
| OG gameboy issues
| rileyphone wrote:
| The screen isn't a normal LCD but a Sharp Memory device -
| https://www.adafruit.com/product/4694
| AlanYx wrote:
| Is that the same technology as RLCD, or is it a different
| type of display?
| anyfoo wrote:
| Yeah. Not sure if the parent commenter had an original
| Gameboy as a kid, because if they did they wouldn't throw
| that comparison around so inflationarily...
| post_break wrote:
| I had an original gameboy. So it's not exactly the same
| type of torture, but in 2022 not having backlighting is
| kind of a joke.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| It's a weird niche device with weird niche games, I'm not
| planning to buy one but I'm happy to see people doing
| something interesting instead of all chasing the same
| mass market. There's a certain retro appeal to the
| "shades of gray like a gameboy" screen without the part
| where it's impossible to see in 90% of lighting
| conditions.
| anyfoo wrote:
| They tout the system as having "a very special black and
| white screen - not backlit, but super reflective - that
| looks way more amazing than you're probably imagining".
|
| If it is the kind of display I _am_ imagining (which I
| think is different from the one they claim I probably
| am), then that display will probably look much better
| than an equivalent backlit displays.
|
| It's just not usable in low lighting conditions, which is
| a tradeoff I can imagine them accepting, and customers as
| well. Though unlike an original Gameboy, and more like a
| common book, a crappy bedside lamp will likely suffice.
| caconym_ wrote:
| Here is a great image (from the Ars Technica review) showing
| how utterly bullshit the comparisons with the original Gameboy
| screen are: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-
| content/uploads/2021/07/IMG_1...
|
| Since you mentioned reviewers getting their hands on Playdates:
| doubtless they're out there, but ("Metal Jesus", whatever that
| is, notwithstanding) I don't think I've seen a single net
| negative review from any source I previously considered
| anywhere close to reputable. Everyone is, of course, entitled
| to their opinion--but as someone who presumably hasn't actually
| used a Playdate yourself, I don't think you're making much
| effort to keep yours objective.
| johnnyanmac wrote:
| >"Metal Jesus", whatever that is, notwithstanding
|
| I don't quite have a dog in the race of Playdate, but I do
| want to note that MetalJesusRocks is in fact a legitmate and
| longstanding video game reviewer, over a decade old by now.
| He's not qiute a pre-Google YT era reviewer, but he's close.
|
| I don't have any particular attachment to him nor his
| opinion, but I have watched a few of his reviews over the
| years. Particularly a few Vita game reviews (he's given more
| focus to portable/handheld games that other reviewers). His
| name definitely betrays his presentation (asusmedly because
| the channel, in actual pre-Google days, had some music
| coverage).
| post_break wrote:
| caconym_ wrote:
| Do you often feel the urge to project negative emotions
| onto strangers you have never met?
|
| Why do you think that is?
| post_break wrote:
| I'm just responding to your comment's tone in kind. Are
| you so upset with my opinion that you have to instantly
| discredit it because "whoever that is" review I based my
| opinion on isn't subjective? It's the most niche game
| console ever made, that I don't understand why it gets
| such high praise, but because it's made by Panic I just
| have to get all fuzzy at the whimsy!
| caconym_ wrote:
| > Are you so upset with my opinion that you have to
| instantly discredit it because "whoever that is" review I
| based my opinion on isn't subjective?
|
| There you go again with the projection.
|
| All _I_ said was that you don 't seem to be making much
| effort to be objective, and if you really based your
| entire opinion on a single random Youtuber's review (as
| you seem to imply here) then you've effectively made my
| point for me.
|
| > I don't understand why it gets such high praise
|
| Maybe you should check out some of the other reviews.
| jrm4 wrote:
| I like the comparison to the iPhone, because for all it's done,
| the iPhone has effectively likely annihilated a generation
| worth of fun gadgetry. Nearly literally every available cell
| phone is an iPhone clone.
| haswell wrote:
| > _the iPhone has effectively likely annihilated a generation
| worth of fun gadgetry_
|
| This just doesn't ring true. It's a golden age of fun
| gadgetry. It's easier than ever before to combine off the
| shelf components (e.g. ESP8266) with a myriad of sensors and
| other devices. Can you expand on what you mean and what
| you're referring yo?
|
| You seem to be implying that the Playdate will annihilate a
| generation of gaming gadgetry? I also don't understand this
| when there's a rich ecosystem of gadgetry all focused on
| various forms of gaming. Granted, most of those are focused
| on emulation, but the hardware is capable of more.
| xg15 wrote:
| Yes, it's easier than ever, but you'll also have fewer
| reasons than ever to actually do it, as most usecases for
| gadgets are already perfectly served by an off-the-shelf
| smartphone.
| tshaddox wrote:
| It's easier than ever to experiment with off the shelf
| components if you're interested in that stuff for its own
| sake or you have very specific niche goals, but smartphones
| have annihilated _the need_ for a generation worth of fun
| gadgetry. You don 't need an MP3 player, a pager, a
| camcorder, a handheld video game console, a PDA, a voice
| recorder, a walkie talkie, a GPS device, a remote control,
| a calculator, etc. because your smartphone can do all of
| those things (and you're already carrying your smartphone
| anyway!). I think that's what people mean when people say
| "the iPhone annihilated a generation worth of fun
| gadgetry."
| tshaddox wrote:
| This is the John Gruber article you're talking about (from May
| 2019):
|
| https://daringfireball.net/2019/05/playdate
|
| I just read the article expecting (based on your tone) to see
| Gruber making grand predictions about the Playdate being a
| massive success or having a massive impact. But no, it's very
| clear in the article that he's just personally excited about
| it. He doesn't make any grandiose predictions or even really
| attempt to persuade other people that they should be similarly
| excited about it. Clearly he just thinks it's neat for a small
| software company to develop their own affordable consumer
| electronics hardware. He's even explicit about thinking the
| product will likely be playing in a relatively small market:
| "Panic is almost cheating in a way because they're tiny. The
| Playdate platform isn't competing with the state of the art." I
| don't see any reason to roll your eyes about this one.
| haswell wrote:
| The thing that I think some folks miss about the Playdate is
| that it's not just a device meant to play a catalog of high
| budget polished games. It's not necessarily for the masses.
|
| It's also a platform and developer ecosystem explicitly made to
| get new/interested devs involved in game development with
| documented support for side loading.
|
| I preordered early on, and haven't gotten mine yet, but I
| bought in to the idea because I love to tinker and have always
| wanted to dabble with game dev. I like the possibility that
| there will be many others like me, trying similar things on the
| same exact hardware, opening up opportunities for community and
| collaboration.
|
| I have yet to see if my excitement is warranted, but I thought
| it was worth mentioning that some people are not as focused on
| the end product as they are on the community, ecosystem and
| tinkering opportunities it enables.
| cableshaft wrote:
| I've been playing around with the Playdate SDK, and it's
| pretty darn simple for the most part (the documentation could
| be better, but it mostly gets the job done). I have a working
| version of my Pico-8 game that I ported in a couple of days
| (the core gameplay loop at least), including crank
| functionality.
|
| The code is basically just Lua with some extra Playdate
| specific bits. This tutorial helped me get up and running:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ufxinp7No
|
| The hardest bit for me so far has been how to make graphics
| look halfway decent in 1-bit, especially when I'm not much of
| an artist. Still haven't figured that bit out. I'm just
| drawing polygons and text on the screen right now
| programatically. Works okay for the core gameplay, but I'm
| struggling more with menus.
| causality0 wrote:
| _trying similar things on the same exact hardware, opening up
| opportunities for community and collaboration._
|
| The Gameboy homebrew community would provide that for you,
| with the added benefit of a much larger potential userbase.
| cableshaft wrote:
| As someone who's been really wanting to make a Gameboy port
| of one of my games and also played with PlayDate dev,
| PlayDate has been much easier to get up and running with
| it. Gameboy has been difficult enough (although it has
| gotten a lot easier with the gb dev kit, it's still not
| easy) I haven't gotten very far with it yet.
| haswell wrote:
| I think that's great, but how accessible is that community?
| How high is the barrier to entry? Genuinely interested
| because I'll probably spend some time dabbling there.
|
| I don't think this needs to be an either/or conversation
| though.
| jxjddjdbd wrote:
| And the thing is, it's made by Panic. A company, that aside
| from like _one_ piece of software, is absolute garbage at
| supporting anything they sell.
|
| I wouldn't own another Panic product if they paid me.
| jakelazaroff wrote:
| Which software have they supported poorly? I've had nothing
| but good experiences with them. And even when they've had to
| retire an app, they're usually super transparent about the
| reasoning.
| neendib wrote:
| Oh good. They were "transparent"
|
| Just like Google is with every product they kill. Corporate
| bs isn't transparency.
| gorgoiler wrote:
| Ok apart from Prompt, what did they ever do for us?
|
| Firewatch.
|
| Ok, Prompt and Firewatch.
|
| And Untitled Goose Game.
|
| Ok, apart from Prompt, Firewatch, and Untitled Goose Game.
|
| ...
| neendib wrote:
| oh lol. They "published" those games for other companies.
| Panic did the best job ever by staying the heck out of the
| way.
|
| Panic sucks.
| cercatrova wrote:
| > _Firewatch, and Untitled Goose Game_
|
| Both were only published by Panic, not developed. They had
| barely anything to do with how the games were made.
| [deleted]
| e1ghtSpace wrote:
| At first I thought that you could charge the batteries through
| the hand crank. Does anyone know if it would be throetically
| possible to fit something like that into such a small
| enclosure? I actually have an electronic game toy from when I
| was a teen that has a hand crank. If anyone wants to see a pic
| of it let me know.
| jbay808 wrote:
| Yes, it's possible. The components needed are very small.
| However I think it would risk people damaging their device
| (or their fingers) by trying to crank-charge the batteries
| too zealously.
| twobitshifter wrote:
| This is what I thought it would be for, I have a small radio
| with a similar crank and it should be possible to power it
| that way. The designers probably considered it and I wonder
| why they didn't do it.
| danachow wrote:
| You probably don't have a radio anywhere near as small as
| device with a hand crank - I have seen a lot of hand crank
| radios and they are much bigger than this and can
| accommodate a relatively hefty large diameter generator -
| With this form factor you have barely more space than to
| get a generator the size of a vibration motor.
|
| It would add tremendous sourcing cost - this thing is
| viable because it uses easily available parts. Having to
| custom design a suitable micro generator would probably be
| more than 50% the design budget. You would also have to
| design it in such a way that it does not detract from its
| primary purpose as a precision game input - something not a
| factor on a cheap hand crank radio. Also are people
| bitching about perceived durability as is. Possible?
| Perhaps. But a bit silly for a completely non essential
| feature on a gaming device when more effort can be just
| poured into sensible power management - it shouldn't be
| hard to get tremendous battery life out of that design.
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