[HN Gopher] TX-6 - Teenage Engineering
___________________________________________________________________
TX-6 - Teenage Engineering
Author : yurivish
Score : 328 points
Date : 2022-04-21 13:47 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (teenage.engineering)
(TXT) w3m dump (teenage.engineering)
| vikingcaffiene wrote:
| I have an OP-1 and love it. Its a mainstay in my recording and
| live performances and honestly my "main" synth despite it looking
| like a toy. I keep finding new uses for it. Example: I needed
| backup vocals for a part and none of my bandmates could do it. I
| sampled the backup vocals and just play them while I sing lead in
| that spot. Really cool.
|
| As for this mixer, I would love this bit of gear but I just can't
| justify spending that kind of scratch for what essentially
| amounts to a mini mixer (which I already have). It seems really
| great though and it being battery powered and tactile like that
| is great.
| [deleted]
| eternityforest wrote:
| This is how all mixers should be! I can't believe how audio is
| still basically analog. Even digital things are still linked by
| analog connections.
|
| Digital wireless exists but is completely nonstandard. Digital
| audio over XLR exists but there are multiple standards and none
| are anywhere near as big as analog.
|
| And mixers are all still analog despite the fact they could
| probably be cheaper if it was done in a DSP at sufficient qty,
| and there would be no concern about scratchy faders, ever.
| cadr wrote:
| I saw "from $199" and thought this looked like an incredible
| deal. Then realized it was just how the font was rendered, and it
| was actually "$1199". I'm not quite sure who the market for this
| is - that is crazy.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| Wow, you're not kidding.
| tmountain wrote:
| Especially with the Focusrite Scarlett Solo is obtainable for
| $119.
| fredoliveira wrote:
| But the Solo is also nowhere _near_ this in terms of
| functionality, so I 'm not sure this is a great comparison.
| javajosh wrote:
| Here's a better comparison:
| https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MG10XU--yamaha-
| mg10x...
|
| "10-channel Analog Mixer with 4 Microphone Preamps, 3
| Dedicated Stereo Line Channels, 1 Aux Send, EQ, 1-knob
| Compressors, and Digital Effects"
|
| $230. It's bigger and needs to plug into a wall. But TBH
| I can't think of an application for a battery powered
| mixer.
| Animats wrote:
| It's an elegant little box. Some of those pictures seem to be
| renders, though. It doesn't really have motorized sliders.
|
| Apple used to have a "no cables in ads" thing.[1] TE is copying
| that. In use, this box has a lot of cables going in, so it will
| look like a mess. So they never show it in use.
|
| [1] https://www.cultofmac.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2012/10/chicnot...
| duped wrote:
| What bothers me is that I would absolutely buy this if it was
| bigger and had 1/4" balanced or stereo TRRS inputs, I actually
| have a variety of input sources in my home office that gets dual
| use for work, gaming, and music. But to use this I would need to
| go XLR to 3.5mm (and no phantom power?) for my voice and amp
| mics, main out to a Y split 1/4 TRS for speakers, and 1/4" to
| 3.5mm for a synth. So my desk would be littered with annoying
| adaptors just to slim down the inputs to fit in those teeny
| jacks.
|
| A built in channel strip that I can keep setup for my mic (gate,
| compressor, EQ), plus a metronome for practicing, easy
| connectivity to my tablet to record myself a bit? Absolutely
| worth it.
|
| The synth part is a little dumb, but it's TE.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Does it even have mic preamps? I would be surprised if you
| could plug a mic directly into this without a cloud lifter or
| something.
| duped wrote:
| It says each channel has up to 42dB of gain which seems
| plenty for most mics.
| tigeba wrote:
| This is not really enough gain for most dynamic mics.
| Probably passable for many condenser mics, but they would
| also need phantom.
| robotresearcher wrote:
| There are lots of desktop mixers with regular-size connectors
| available, some with audio interfaces and effects. This one is
| super small and based on mini jacks - that's its
| differentiator.
|
| Main difference from the similar-space BlueBox seems to be
| having little faders instead of a touchscreen. And it's twice
| the price. Design looks nice, hard to evaluate the usability
| from pictures. Menu diving on little screens can be rough.
| tayistay wrote:
| The TX-6 is aimed at people who own the other TE stuff which is
| 3.5mm. If you're looking for a solid audio interface, consider
| RME or Apogee.
| eweise wrote:
| My apogee duet sucked. Always had problems being recognized
| by logic and eventually they stopped providing updates to the
| software. Got a Motu M4 which is much cheaper and has been
| worlds better.
| jcpst wrote:
| That sucks. I had the opposite experience, for those
| curious. I still have my firewire duet, I've been using
| over 10 years. Works great. It is unfortunate they stopped
| updating the software. My 2010 mac mini is running OS
| 10.11, and it works.
| duped wrote:
| I have an RME actually, but the Apogee stuff has poor support
| for anyone not using a Mac.
| djtriptych wrote:
| Same for me, although 1/8" jacks are quite common among TE's
| line. I'm guessing they're targeting enthusiasts who already
| own a few other TE devices.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Octatrack?
| resters wrote:
| I'm just happy that there are people who can work for Teenage
| Engineering building cool things like this. I own a pocket
| operator and love seeing the bare board and imagining how fun it
| must have been to build and design it.
| grobibi wrote:
| 48khz max in 2022. The converters must be where they skimped. You
| can get a proper RME unit at that price. It looks cute though.
| [deleted]
| devin wrote:
| Anddddd it sold out. TE knows their audience, folks.
| [deleted]
| wly_cdgr wrote:
| This the one that Nilin uses for remixing memories
| jacquesm wrote:
| That looks like it was made by Braun. Gorgeous but very pricey.
| 12ian34 wrote:
| I could really do with this, it seems that it would solve some
| problems, simplify my workflow AND mean I get to sell a couple of
| pieces of gear. I own an OP-1 and feel that it's worth the PS850
| I paid for it second hand but this TX-1 is over twice as much as
| I'd be prepared to pay. Shame given its design and feature-set.
| Maybe Behringer will put out a shitty PS200 clone in a year or
| two ;)
| professoretc wrote:
| Agreed on both features and the crazy price. I've been using a
| TC Helicon Blender to serve as a stereo mixer + AI.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Hoo boy, Teenage Engineering is starting to get on my nerves.
| This is a neat piece of kit, but the specs on it pretty much
| relegate it to the "toy" category of their lineup. You're telling
| me people are going to use this 48kHz dongle as a portable DAC?
| You probably have a better output on your laptop. Pretty absurd.
| This thing is pretty much a physical iPhone app... that costs
| more than an iPhone.
|
| What really pisses me off about this is the price. Yes, please
| dogpile me about how "specialty hardware like this doesn't
| exist", that totally excuses this thing's existence! Seriously
| though, you can buy a brand new Octatrack for this price (actual
| professional equipment). But if this thing isn't competing with
| the OT, what's it's purpose? Being a digital multitrack recorder?
| Feeling nice in your pocket? Just being smaller than it's
| competitors no matter the expense?
|
| The more I look at this thing, the more it annoys me. Teenage
| Engineering has always been about shipping hipster audio
| products, but even their older stuff was fairly passable. As much
| as I despise the OP-1 (even moreso after it's price hike), it had
| a lot of cool ideas in it. It was an obvious labor of love. I
| can't make heads or tails of this TX-6. I genuinely don't know
| who would buy this. In my head, I'm watching bourgeoisie college
| students walking around San Francisco to make lo-fi hip hop from
| found sounds with this thing. That's it. I can't see anyone using
| this in a professional setting. The OP-Z is an actual joke in the
| pro audio community, but I've still seen people use it at shows.
| The Pocket Operator is little more than a cheap toy, but people
| have fun sketching rhythms on them and even using the later
| models as super lo-fi samplers. This is... nothing. I truly and
| honestly don't understand it.
| lancesells wrote:
| Try to think of it in the same context as a watch. There are
| price ranges from $10 to probably $1M+. They all have a
| function of tell you the time. Price is a silly thing to be
| upset about it unless you truly needed it to live (which no one
| does).
| Archit3ch wrote:
| Except Behringer doesn't clone Omega... yet!
| smoldesu wrote:
| _checks watch_
|
| Give them... 6 months?
| l33tbro wrote:
| That actually makes sense. Watches are a status item and, as
| OP (pardon the pun) points out, Teenage Engineering is a bit
| of an aspirational/hipster brand.
| makz wrote:
| My thoughts almost exactly. The thing is beautiful but useless.
| ruined wrote:
| if i wanted a simple mixer and usb audio interface with fx send
| and i _didn 't_ want to spend a thousand dollars on it, what's
| the range of alternatives
|
| i've spent under $150 on every individual item in my kit so far
| and it feels silly to blow past that on a mixer.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| FX send narrows it down, I think the Mackie ProFX6v3 and the
| Behringer Flow 8 should do the trick if you want small & cheap.
| Otherwise the Yamaha AG03/AG06 are decent too.
| ruined wrote:
| thanks
| scarecrowbob wrote:
| Behringer xr12 might be a good choice. I have been using the
| xr18 (x32, etc) for years and they are good values.
|
| A Focusrite Scarlet 8i6 would serve as a mixer if you don't
| mind being tied to a computer.
|
| But if you just needed a mixer, the Yamaha MG series stuff is
| fine and in line with your price point.
| P_I_Staker wrote:
| Mackie, Zoom, and Allen & Heath have mixers for 300ish buck,
| with 10ish inputs and are fairly featurefull.
|
| I wouldn't count on the interface doing everything you dream
| of, even if it seems like it can based on specs. I owned the
| allen & heath, but traded it for the mackie one. It's okay, but
| there's a few annoyances.
|
| Keep in mind that the FX send will also require a return (may
| sound obvious, but it's not to everyone), therefore, it will
| consume an input; they basically never have a dedicated return
| (it's pretty much pointless).
|
| The FX send itself might not be really necessary, but I don't
| know enough to say for sure. I think they could just label it
| AUX, and that any auxiliary, or monitor send can work for FX...
| I'm not sure. I've used them before and the FX to monitor /
| sample.
| kamranjon wrote:
| Not sure this tics all your boxes but in a similar form factor
| the zoom H6 seems to be something people really like (the h4n
| was kinda huge when it first came out) -
| https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/handheld-recorders/handheld-recor...
| ruined wrote:
| i've got an h4n, i played with it yesterday, but i am looking
| for something with faders and an auxiliary effects loop to
| mix synths for dawless jamming
| vvvzxd wrote:
| yamaha mixers are good
| l33tbro wrote:
| There are far better and cheaper optionsavailable.
|
| I recently bought a Mackie 1604 for a hundred bucks. It's from
| 1993 and they were basically designed to fall off buildings.
| Super transparent and likely to outlast this thing due to being
| much more operable. Not as pretty or quirky, but that doesn't
| really factor in to my use case.
|
| For stereo compression, you can get a brand new Really Nice
| Compressor for a couple of hundred bucks. Steve Albini has
| these in his studio, so that alone should indicate their high
| quality.
| abxytg wrote:
| you're paying 4 figures or you're getting a plastic piece of
| crap from $50 on amazon, and it just has line out not usb
| audio.
| biztos wrote:
| I am the lower end of the target market for this: I mess around
| with synthesizers and I prefer DAW-less and while it wouldn't be
| an impulse purchase, I could probably afford it.
|
| Except that it doesn't record, so I still need another device at
| the end of the chain.
|
| I can't figure that out. For the price, surely recording would
| have fit. It's digital audio anyway, right, in order to do the
| effects?
|
| There might be a good reason why there's no built-in recorder,
| and maybe someone will explain it to me, but it seems like a
| massive missed opportunity to be the last link in a serious
| portable synth chain.
| drcongo wrote:
| Stupidly expensive and I have absolutely no need for it, but just
| look how beautiful it is.
| tpmx wrote:
| It's almost disgustingly expensive for what it is.
| kamranjon wrote:
| If it was a digital recorder similar to a tascam portastudio
| I could see it being really awesome as a sort of high end
| version of the standalone recording system but just an
| interface seems incredibly overpriced - you can buy compact
| interfaces already (they've been designed for video
| applications by zoom and tascam) that have quality preamps
| and great battery life which also function as recorders. It
| does look nice though. I hope they are able to scale up on
| their products so they become more affordable because I would
| really like to but their synth but I am not quite in the
| experience bracket to justify it but it seems really fun.
| flats wrote:
| Yeah, agreed that this I s an insane price point given that
| (unless I'm missing something) there's only one preamp and
| it only works for an inline headphone mic.
| drivers99 wrote:
| The way people are going on about the price I was expecting
| it to be a lot higher. It's about the price of a video card.
| speedgoose wrote:
| It's cheaper than a boat too.
| Gracana wrote:
| Wouldn't you want to compare it to the prices of other
| mixers, not video cards?
| alias_neo wrote:
| I absolutely love their design language. I'll never have a need
| to own any of their products but I wish I could buy the gadgets I
| do need/want with this kind of design/style.
| bborud wrote:
| IKEA actually sold a bluetooth speaker for a while designed by
| TE. I got two of them. They are excellent.
|
| PS: anyone want a used Sonos?
| eej71 wrote:
| If the people who design the atrocious touch screen interfaces
| inside of cars could get educated by the nice people at teenage
| engineering, that would be swell.
| alias_neo wrote:
| I was just watching some reviews of electric cars and noticed
| a tendency to remove all tactility.
|
| Some of the models have "touch" buttons for drive mode, and
| things like environmental controls being touch or on screens
| is horrid.
|
| It's bad enough having to look away from the road for a
| fraction of a second to find the AC switch in my Nissan,
| these newer "solutions" just feel plain unsafe.
| sanderjd wrote:
| Whatever all this stuff is does look good, but the website
| doesn't do a good job of explaining what it is, IMO. I know
| this is because I'm not their target market, but maybe they'd
| bring me into that market if they did a bit of explaining
| somewhere on the site of why I might be interested in their
| gear?
| stu2b50 wrote:
| That's wouldn't really be possible. You'd have to have audio
| equipment to be interested in an audio interface. Trying to
| sell outside that market doesn't really make sense.
|
| It would be like trying to convince someone without a camera
| to buy your camera lens.
| drewzero1 wrote:
| To convince someone to buy a camera lens, you might first
| convince them to buy a camera.
| Fargoan wrote:
| If you don't know what a mixer/audio interface is, you don't
| need or want one
| danachow wrote:
| Right at the very beginning:
|
| > ultra-portable pro-mixer and audio interface.
|
| TX-6 is our ultra-portable, battery-powered mixer and multi-
| channel audio interface. comparable to larger units, but with
| even more tech packed into one sturdy little machine.
|
| I'd say that's pretty damn clear what it is and that it's
| "ultra portable." What were you expecting them to add?
| colechristensen wrote:
| Lots of people don't know what a mixer or audio interface
| is.
| filoleg wrote:
| It is a specialized tool for a specific set of tasks. If
| you don't even know what this (very clearly named and
| commonly known in the industry/hobby) type of a tool is
| used for, you definitely don't have a need for it.
|
| Your issue with it is akin to someone complaining that a
| promo page for a premium-tier oscillator clearly states
| that it is an oscillator, but doesn't explain what
| oscillators are and what they can be used for.
| rchaud wrote:
| It's not an iPod, it won't be advertised to a general
| audience. People that visit the TE website will usually
| have heard about it from word of mouth.
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| And those people definitely aren't in the market for a
| $1200 audio interface. If you don't own several pieces of
| gear already, this device has literally no use. If you do
| own several pieces of gear and want to record and mix
| them simultaneously, a $1200 interface is not going to be
| the first one you purchase.
| colechristensen wrote:
| Sure, but people who know all had to learn eventually.
|
| I often find myself wondering what a product or service
| is for not being a target customer in the know.
|
| It would be nice if there were more instances of products
| telling people who don't know what they are.
| karmakaze wrote:
| Reminds me of the time I swapped out the main headlight of my
| Volvo 850. It required no tools, merely pulling on some large
| sprung wires with convenient finger rings. It had a very Lego
| friendliness to the whole process. Lego of course is Danish,
| Volvo (at the time) and TE being Swedish.
| alias_neo wrote:
| In a very similar fashion, I was pleasantly surprised that I
| can tear down every mechanical part of my Dyson cordless
| vacuum to wash them without a single tool.
|
| On the subject of Volvo, I'm shortlisting the Polestar 2 as a
| candidate for my next car.
| sneak wrote:
| Me too. They are aping the Rams look as well as Ive/Apple did
| at their best, and now Apple doesn't do it any longer.
| andybak wrote:
| > Rams look
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Rams
| nebula8804 wrote:
| Reminds me of the nicer things that IKEA makes. Its pleasant
| and calming. Those Swedish people know what they are doing. :)
| bborud wrote:
| https://www.ikea.com/us/en/new/frekvens-limited-
| collection-p...
| earthboundkid wrote:
| You can get their headset for cheap! That's what I did. And
| also the Playdate, although it's not cheap.
| itintheory wrote:
| I'm pretty sure you can't get the Playdate, unless by get you
| mean pre-order for delivery in 2023.
| spython wrote:
| There was a collaboration with IKEA, where teenage engineering
| designed the bluetooth loudspeakers. I have the big ones
| (10x20cm) and they are alright for a small room or to take with
| you to the garden. Nice but nothing special. The tiny ones for
| 19EUR were really something - nice design, good sound for the
| size and price, and really, having a rotating knob on such a
| small stylish thing feels just great.
| randito wrote:
| IKEA Frekvens. Link:
| https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/23/21079667/ikea-teenage-
| eng...
| internetvin wrote:
| Yeah definitely feel the same way about wishing this design
| language and approach was applied to everyday tools and
| objects.
| dmd wrote:
| I don't need to own my OP-1, but I'm glad I do. It makes me
| happy every time I look at it.
| ketzo wrote:
| The OP-1 is one of those products that makes me want to
| change my entire lifestyle and personality just so I could
| possibly justify owning it.
|
| It's just so _neat_.
| fumar wrote:
| I have sold and bought the OP-1 twice now. At one point, I
| tried to replace my DAW and synths workflow with the single
| OP-1 unit. It didn't work. Three years later, I missed the
| OP-1 sounds and bought it on a whim, but I realized again
| how limited the sound palette is and its ability to work
| alongside non-OP-1 instruments. Both times, its aesthetic
| appeal and aspirational dream won over the rational me. It
| is a cool device. I will stick to Ableton Live, a few
| synths, and a midi controller.
|
| The TX-6 is appealing to the gadget nerd in me...
| tomcam wrote:
| That is so shallow. Also, I feel exactly the same way.
| post_break wrote:
| I'm so jealous. It's the one thing I lust after but can't
| justify. I wish I could rent one and see how bad it twists
| the knife towards pulling the credit card out.
| officeplant wrote:
| It's always depressing to look back on the time I hopped on a
| backorder list for one then gave up after months of waiting
| only to have them gradually get more and more expensive when
| restocked. I really wanted to get one early on but dear lord
| they are so expensive now days.
| koofdoof wrote:
| The Panic Playdate they designed just came out, if you're in
| the market for a $200 game machine it might be suitable.
| gorgoiler wrote:
| TE have also designed a phone. It's coming out soon with their
| partner Nothing, who are committed to affordability:
|
| https://www.androidcentral.com/phones/nothing-phone-1
|
| They also were the design firm behind these ear buds too, which
| are pretty neat:
|
| https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/nothing/ear-1-trul...
| moron4hire wrote:
| I've come to expect Teenage Engineering's products to be
| expensive, but I have definitely underestimated them once again.
| incanus77 wrote:
| Once, just once, I would like to see someone say "why is this so
| expensive, it's just [...]" _and then_ build one themselves, and
| bring it to market, for that lower cost. Go ahead, just try.
| aikinai wrote:
| That's how Anker got started I believe.
| arkades wrote:
| My understanding is that anker got started with standard
| white labed alibaba type goods, but differentiated themselves
| with good curation, meaning you actually got something decent
| at a low price
| dsr_ wrote:
| If you insist on the portable form-factor, it will be slightly
| troublesome.
|
| If it's going to sit on a desk and be used all the time, a
| Behringer 1222USB is $250 when they aren't running a special
| sale. It has more channels, some usable effects, and you can
| add an iPad Mini with some synth software to handle the rest of
| the functionality. So that's half the price, and you get to
| play with the iPad whenever you aren't making music; or it's
| about 1/6 the price of the TX-6 without the synth.
| sanderjd wrote:
| Don't people do that all the time and sometimes fail and
| sometimes succeed? Isn't this why we have competitive products
| and competing price points for most things?
| joemi wrote:
| What all the people disagreeing with you are ignoring is the
| work and skill that goes into the product design. It takes a
| lot of iteration, which means lots of prototypes, which means
| lots of time and money spent just developing the product. This
| means iteration on the electronics, the UI, the case, etc etc.
| Anyone could whip together something that's bigger, uglier, and
| has a worse user interface, all for less money, but to make
| something equivalent to what TE makes is a what takes all the
| time/money/effort/skill.
|
| Also most of the disagreers are also ignoring the "bring it to
| market" step. Even if you built something of equivalent product
| design as TE, building one for yourself is vastly different
| than doing a product run where you expect each product to be
| the same. PCB design and manufacturing is relatively easy and
| inexpensive, but all the plastic/rubber forming/molding is much
| trickier and significantly expensive. Getting past the
| manufacturing aspect, there's the whole marketing, sales, and
| distribution aspect, which aren't anything to be sneezed at
| either. Seriously a lot of work goes into bringing a product to
| market that DIYers building single devices or very tiny runs of
| devices don't even consider. While TE might not be doing
| Behringer-level runs of products, their runs are definitely
| bigger than a lone DIYer could ever handle by themselves.
|
| (Note: This isn't to say that TE's products are necessarily
| better for everyone than something they could make themselves
| (or buy for less from a different company), of course. After
| all, the world's musicians got by just fine before this mixer
| was released. I just wanted to chime in and explain some of
| reasons why TE's stuff costs more than what you might think you
| could make yourself.)
| vvvzxd wrote:
| not understanding this argument. i'm not a synth manufacturer.
| korg and roland put out plenty of gear with great features for
| a lower price than this
| incanus77 wrote:
| Well, someone should tell TE then, because they've obviously
| don't know they're making a huge mistake and this will fail
| miserably.
| an-unknown wrote:
| If you actually build one yourself (not just limited to this
| particular mixer, but also e.g. analog synthesizers, FM
| synthesizers, samplers, ...), you'll be surprised by how
| ridiculously overpriced almost all of the available audio
| hardware really is. The sad part is that in many cases your
| prototype will be cheaper than the commercially available audio
| hardware.
|
| In practice you'll probably skip the "and bring it to market"
| step though, because usually you'll start such a project
| because you wanted to have a specific
| mixer/synthesizer/sampler/..., and once you have it on your
| desk, the next project usually looks more interesting than
| spending the extra time to sell whatever you just developed.
| IAmPym wrote:
| As someone who literally does this for a living at
| Sequential, you couldn't be more wrong
| javajosh wrote:
| I don't do this for a living and can't imagine how a
| statement like "your prototype will be cheaper than
| commercially available options" could be taken seriously by
| anyone.
| eternityforest wrote:
| If you don't count your time whatsoever and don't go for
| the nice case design.
|
| I mean at the extreme case, if you can tolerate 40ms of
| latency and stuttering, a Raspberry Pi and some USB
| soundcards can do it all. The actual power needed is
| reasonable and ADC/DACs aren't that insane.
|
| A Teensy 4.1 connected to an ESP32 could probably do most
| of this, if you wanted to do $15k of software development
| in your spare time and were really good at DSP.
| alfalfasprout wrote:
| As others have mentioned you're not considering the enclosure
| at all. And doubtful you're including your time, QA, etc.
| zokier wrote:
| > The sad part is that in many cases your prototype will be
| cheaper than the commercially available audio hardware.
|
| Are you including those probably custom knurled knobs,
| buttons and sliders in that guesstimate too? Because those
| are the sort of things I'd expect to bring the cost up here.
| Heck, that beautifully finished aluminum case with its
| beveled edges alone is good chunk of money.
| squarefoot wrote:
| No need to try as it already exists: Any Linux tablet with
| Reaper and a couple soft synths and a decent external sound
| card if needed would do a lot more for a lot less. A good
| portion of the cost of this device could be justified only if
| it really had motorized knobs and faders, which are shown in
| the video but not mentioned among the features; that would be a
| completely unnecessary gimmick (in such a device) which however
| would impact a lot on the cost.
|
| Portable music devices aren't that expensive these days. Take a
| look at what SunVox can do on old hardware, or maybe the
| Polyend Tracker, which is a hardware solution that costs less
| than half of the tx-6 and doesn't kill the eyes on a toy
| display.
|
| https://warmplace.ru/soft/sunvox/
|
| https://polyend.com/tracker/
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQufJBVvAtY
| abxytg wrote:
| neither of these are remotely close to the tx-6....
| rchaud wrote:
| Just say it costs $100/mo for 12 months for on-prem. They'll
| think it's an exciting new enterprise B2B SaaS.
| nathanvanfleet wrote:
| Not really a valid argument. Plenty of similar products out
| there with more competitive prices. "Make this complex product
| yourself" is the equivalent argument as "if you don't like
| something with your country just leave." People can complain
| that something is expensive.
| alfalfasprout wrote:
| This is a ridiculous equivalence. If you live in a country
| you don't have a choice but be subject to its laws, politics,
| etc. You'd have to leave.
|
| No one is forcing you to buy this product.
| speed_spread wrote:
| Nowhere near as Wired-friendly as this, but as portable mixers
| go, Zoom's Livetrak series is where it's at IMHO.
| arkad wrote:
| +1 for that. Especially Zoom LiveTrak L-8 has nice pack of
| features for its size (nowhere as portable as TX-6, but still)
| and is also battery powered.
| adamrezich wrote:
| slightly off-topic but I often listen to podcasts while playing
| video games and I've long wanted a simple device--ideally
| battery-powered and portable but I'll take what I can get--that
| takes two audio inputs and produces one audio output, allowing me
| to crossfade between the two as needed, so I can mix between two
| audio sources on the fly. does something like this exist, and if
| so, how expensive is it? I haven't been able to find anything.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| The Gnome 202 is surprisingly decent, very low noise. Its
| portable if attached to a power bank.
|
| https://www.steinigke.de/de/mpn10006880-omnitronic-gnome-202...
| vvvzxd wrote:
| 2 channel audio mixer, pretty much one of the most common
| devices out there
| adamrezich wrote:
| interesting, I was looking on Amazon like a year ago and
| couldn't find anything like that, but now I see there's
| several <$50 devices just like that! thanks
| FerociousTimes wrote:
| This device has Dieter Rams' fingerprints all over it.
| gorkish wrote:
| God this thing is gonna look and work so much worse with 10
| cables hanging out of it. Probably isn't even heavy enough to
| stay in one place against all of that mess, but yeah there's
| about a million times I can recall where having such a thing in
| the bag would have saved someone's bacon.
|
| I do also expect to see plenty of hipsters unnecessarily self-
| flagellating themselves with it, per TE tradition.
| H1Supreme wrote:
| Price aside, what is the use case for this? Bands or electronic
| live sets will already be bringing a bunch of gear (with 1/4"
| connections, almost universally) to a show. The size of their 6
| channel mixer will not really come into play when you consider
| guitars, amps, synths, etc.
|
| So, who is this for? People using iPads and iPhones that need the
| smallest possible mixer? The audio interface aspect is available
| in many other mixers already. So, that's not a unique feature.
| cestith wrote:
| I would say it's handy for a jam bag or gig bag when a show
| suddenly happens, or as a backup when you need additional
| channels because part of your board failed,, or maybe you were
| counting on the venue's board and it has too few features or
| inputs. I would say that, if it was $600 and not $1200.
|
| This might be handy for the Youtube buskers and such who are
| trying to minimize equipment size to stay very mobile.
|
| My mixer is old, used, and not palm-sized but I just twiddle
| around at home. I've not released a track to friends and family
| for years, let alone performed a gig or sold anything on
| streaming services. So for someone like me this is a really
| cool toy to look at but well beyond an impulse buy.
| adwi wrote:
| "To keep the battery healthy, the unit should be charged at least
| every 6 months. if not used for a long time, it may not charge
| again."
|
| ... it may not charge again? Haven't heard this warning in
| consumer electronics before.
| kamranjon wrote:
| It's common for things with non-swappable batteries but
| companies might not be so explicit about the need for it. Have
| a higher end video camera that is same way, have to keep
| reminding myself to keep it charged up.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| https://superuser.com/questions/1517665/laptop-battery-not-c...
| batteries that go through long periods of disuse often have
| problems, I would suppose that companies that do not mention
| this edge case aren't as conscientious as those that do.
| jeffbee wrote:
| I guess I'm alone in my preference for the design of e.g. the
| Sony DMX-P01 or the Zoom F8n. Maybe it's because I'm from the
| past.
| CharlesW wrote:
| I hope you don't feel bad for not vibing with Teenage
| Engineering's design choices. I personally really like the
| Dieter Rams-ian aesthetic, but this is a product for people
| with more money than sense.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Now that you mention it this does somehow invoke the visual
| aesthetic of the World Receiver. I wonder if that is
| intentional.
|
| For me a portable audio device with this many knobs should
| also be covered in writing and scales, like a Nagra IV.
| wodenokoto wrote:
| Off-topic, but I noticed they have their Bluetooth speaker in
| "off-white" - that is, bright orange. I thought that was pretty
| funny.
|
| https://teenage.engineering/store/ob-4-off-white-set/
| tern wrote:
| Off-White[1] is a fashion brand started by the late Virgil
| Abloh[2].
|
| [1] https://www.off---white.com/en-us
|
| [2] https://www.instagram.com/virgilabloh/
| rpmisms wrote:
| Halo hardware, absolutely, but their design sense is utterly
| phenomenal. What a gorgeous piece of kit.
| reaperducer wrote:
| If I were ever to go back to the Wintel world (or whatever the
| word is for Windows+AMD), Teenage Engineering's computer is
| probably the only one my wife would allow in the house:
|
| https://teenage.engineering/products/computer-1
| bullen wrote:
| She should take a look at http://streacom.com, they combine
| look and functionality with their silent cases.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| It looks interesting, but for me it hasn't got the same
| "want!" factor their other products have.
|
| The T1 10L ITX case just launched, waiting for its arrival:
| https://formdworks.com/
| gigaflop wrote:
| I was looking at SFF cases, so I keep an eye open for
| lesser-known ones. I was willing to add another to the list
| of contenders, but I just don't get why that site asks for
| a password, and shows only one image of something that
| they're trying to sell.
|
| I get that it's limited-run stuff, but why would they hide
| information about their product? Visiting their website is
| pretty much worthless if they only sell in batches, and
| don't allow access between batches.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| They're really bad at marketing, better check the
| subreddit or discord. It has been two years and this
| month it has finally launched, so it wouldn't be insane
| to consider it.
|
| The only contender is the JIMU D+ v2.0, or the Dan H2O if
| you can compromise on looks or quality.
| MDGeist wrote:
| I've only owned one Teenage product (the Megaman Pocket
| Operator) but now I really want the comp 1. Cool that they've
| expanded beyond synths!
| scns wrote:
| As sibling allready hinted at, check out Streacom:
| https://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html
| folkhack wrote:
| Well that's the first time I've ever seen a 1:1 EIZO used in
| _anything_ marketing related.
|
| That monitor used in their marketing photo is the EV2730Q and
| it's an absolute beast if you're looking for a balance
| between horizontal/vertical aspect ratios. Obviously not
| fantastic for gaming (minus Factorio), but for programming +
| shell work it's outstanding.
| crate_barre wrote:
| Real life Winamp skin. I want one just because of how it looks.
| Aeolun wrote:
| I can't think of a reason I would need this, but I still want it.
| nimbius wrote:
| my biggest axe to grind with this company is the outrageous
| pricetag for everything they sell.
|
| With $100 bags, $700 mini boom boxes, and $15 patches You may as
| well call it Affluent Engineering.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| This might sound weird but I think the audience they're
| targeting the high price is part of the enjoyment. There is a
| weight, status and a value to an expensive item.
|
| I work in hardware so understand the costs involved but I also
| think the high price is beneficial to them from a brand
| perspective. Brand-wise the amount of buzz they generate from
| relatively niche products is impressive.
| [deleted]
| zoul wrote:
| If you're just interested in a tiny EUR130 mixer, Bastl Dude is
| great:
|
| https://noise.kitchen/bastl-instruments/bastl-instruments-du...
| pcvonz wrote:
| The demo video is great[1]. I picked one up from my local synth
| shop, it's a nice little mixer. Perfect for all my tiny desktop
| synths (Kastl, M8, NanoLoop FM). I admire the design of TE
| stuff, but the premium is hard to justify for me (especially
| since I mostly dabble in music).
|
| [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e0egbPlKrfA
| vvvzxd wrote:
| can someone explain to me why their gear is so expensive? i have
| a lot of synths and have been collecting them for a long time,
| and I have no idea why the OP1 should cost 1000 dollars. it
| really just seems like a toy, do professionals actually use them?
| WickyNilliams wrote:
| Take a look at Red Means Recording on YouTube for what the OP-1
| is capable of. Very cool piece of hardware
| Jackim wrote:
| professionals absolutely use the OP-1. Deadmau5, Kevin Parker
| of Tame Impala, Skrillex, Thom Yorke and many more.
| colechristensen wrote:
| You have to pick a price for high end low volume products and
| that price often ends up containing a whole lot of development
| and overhead costs. You can cut corners with development and
| materials and lose the high end to try for volume, you can try
| to get your thing very popular, or you can just stick to high
| prices. High prices tends to get you a better customer base and
| a sense of exclusivity which drives sales.
| rileyphone wrote:
| Love Teenage Engineering, though I've never been able to justify
| buying something from them (especially not this!). Though I am
| looking forward to the Playdate [0], which they designed.
|
| [0] https://play.date/
| wyldfire wrote:
| Never heard of this before now but it looks really fun. Somehow
| I can't help thinking that just a dash of color might have made
| it more interesting. But it seems like it keeps things simple.
| $180 seems really steep for this but they have some kind of
| hipster edge here. I'm not even completely turned off for $180
| for this lo-fi unit.
|
| Since it's called 'playdate' and since it looks kinda retro --
| a cable to play head-to-head games like the original Nintendo
| GameBoy did would be pretty cool.
| WickyNilliams wrote:
| Pocket operators are (relatively) cheap and a whole lot of fun!
| I have the po-33 which is a sampler. It's amazing how much you
| can do with it. One of those devices where the limitations
| force you to be creative.
|
| Can thoroughly recommend if you're in any way inclined. Their
| other pocket operators are more synthy, but I'm a hip hop head
| so naturally gravitated towards the sampler.
| zachruss92 wrote:
| I totally didn't realize Teenage Engineering made the Playdate.
| I'm even more exited for it now. Early reviews say it's quite
| fun.
| srik wrote:
| Me neither, but it makes total sense now.
| WillPostForFood wrote:
| Teenage Engineering designed the hardware for Panic Inc (the
| Mac software devs in Portland). Panic is the company actually
| making/selling it.
| formerkrogemp wrote:
| Is there a geriatric engineering company?
| defterGoose wrote:
| Interestingly, for my usual use case, they made this product
| almost obsolete several months ago when they unlocked the USB
| audio functionality for the OP-1. Now that I have full stereo
| in/out at what I assume is 96k, and the ability to edit and
| playback from a DAW, the addition of a "real-world" audio
| interface like a duet or something for doing mics makes more
| sense than this.
|
| I still want one.
| jasonjayr wrote:
| From the specs:
|
| > to keep the battery healthy, the unit should be charged at
| least every 6 months. if not used for a long time, it may not
| charge again.
|
| ..... why is that?
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| Batteries self-discharge. If they are fully discharged for a
| long time, they may get damaged irreversibly. This is the case
| with most battery chemistries and not specific to the TX-6.
| kmeisthax wrote:
| Like most Teenage Engineering products, it's an absolutely
| amazing-looking, well-engineered product with a ton of
| functionality that does a thing I don't actually need for far
| more money than I can justify spending on it.
| Fargoan wrote:
| Yeah, I would buy this if it was half the price. I can't
| justify spending $1200 on it.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| I've got a Pyle mixer that will do the same for approximately
| $80
| LegitShady wrote:
| TE products tend to be poorly manufactured. Go look at an op-z
| that bends and causes double trigs, with soft non standard feet
| you need to turn to open to get access to the interior of the
| device. Take a look at all the pocket operators they break
| regularly (I owned 4 and two broke from even casual use) and
| you cannt get spare parts like screens from te.
|
| And ton of functionality? Go take a look at the ob-4 a
| Bluetooth speaker with a radio, a sort of tape delay thing, and
| no audio out.
|
| I used to be a fan of teenage engineering but the low quality
| of the products I've had of theirs and the extremely high
| prices have led me to a totally different conclusion.
|
| This mixer is overpriced and requires super special teenage
| engineering slimline cables to fit all of its inputs at the
| same time.
|
| I am looking for a portable mixer but this monstrosity by a
| company that has a history of quality issues is not the mixer I
| am looking for.
| mellavora wrote:
| So, Apple!
| fastball wrote:
| Eh, all my Apple devices do exactly what I need them to.
| recursive wrote:
| Lucky for you. Once I tried to copy a single audio file to
| my ipod without going through the whole itunes journey.
| Spoiler alert: In the end I just stopped using apple stuff.
| post_break wrote:
| I tried the same with a mini disc player. Knowing what a
| product does and how it does it is kind of key though.
| recursive wrote:
| It worked before the firmware update through a Winamp
| plug in. But to your point I will be avoiding this
| product in the same way I avoid Apple products.
| rchaud wrote:
| Pre-Intel Apple, or back when you needed a Mac computer for
| your iPod to sync, because USB mass storage isn't elegant
| enough or whatever.
| vvvzxd wrote:
| is it good engineering to put a synthesizer and sequencer
| inside of a mixer? how do you even use those features?
| relaxing wrote:
| For a portable tool you can play with on a flight or in a
| park or on public transit, it sounds like a fun option to
| have.
|
| > how do you even use those features?
|
| It has knobs, what more do you need to make music? The user
| guide if you're curious:
| https://teenage.engineering/guides/tx-6
| sdenton4 wrote:
| A sequencer for the /mixer/ is terribly terribly useful.
| Basically like having control parameters in a tracker, but
| for any arbitrary input you've plugged into the mixer. And
| knowing TE, I would be shocked if you couldn't target the
| mixer params with the sequencer. (Arguably, this is part of
| the value prop (hahahahahaha) for modular synthesizers.)
|
| The synthesizer is probably more 'because they can,' once the
| rest of the software/hardware interface is in place. It's
| close enough to what they've already done lots of with the
| pocket operators; might as well throw one in so people can
| prototype sounds easily.
| [deleted]
| tinco wrote:
| I wonder why it's so expensive, I know it should be higher than
| regular consumers expect because it's a low volume high quality
| product, but so is the OP-1 and that seems to have a lot more
| manufacturing overhead.
|
| Wouldn't this product just contain a small signal processing
| FPGA, a bunch of ADC's and a couple DAC's? It's small but I think
| those should fit fine in that enclosure with a thick PCB.
|
| Anyone know if there's anything really special in there? Not
| hating if there isn't, the product is probably worth it to many
| people regardless, just wondering.
|
| edit: just to clear the easiest explanation, since it's even more
| niche than the OP-1 it needs that much more margin? If it sells
| 1/10th the quantity it needs 10x the margin maybe.
| jelling wrote:
| Serious answer: expensive synths are the new expensive guitars.
| For the previous generation, guitar makers began cranking out
| premium priced guitars for purchase by people outside their
| prime music making years and into their prime earning years.
| Said guitars frequently just hung on the wall, which was fine
| because they were designed to be status items anyway.
| ng55QPSK wrote:
| Synths were always expensive. Polyphonic, analog Stuff was
| clearly in the 5-digit prices. Digitalisation brought this
| down to 4...5000EUR.
| an-unknown wrote:
| Back in the day, it somewhat made sense that polyphonic
| synthesizers were expensive, since the electronics itself
| was expensive. Today, if you have a few weekends time, you
| can rather easily design your own custom analog polyphonic
| synthesizer in e.g. Eurorack format, manufacture it for
| something around 30-50EUR (e.g. using some Chinese PCB
| manufacturer + their SMT assembly service), and the
| resulting module will outperform modern commercially
| available modules that cost multiple times more (think of a
| factor of 10x for the price difference).
|
| It's even crazier if you look at digital synthesizers or
| samplers. Remember the E-MU Emulator from 1981, which cost
| more than $8000 when it was released? Today, a cheap 5EUR
| microcontroller together with a 2EUR DAC will give you more
| of everything already (more polyphony, more RAM, higher
| sample rate, more resolution per sample, stereo output
| instead of mono, ...).
| Applejinx wrote:
| The trouble comes when it absolutely will not, because
| the sound of the 'vintage digital gear' is heavily
| influenced by the primitive DACS and typically non-
| miniaturized circuitry putting out a relatively low-bit
| sound with some serious beef to it.
|
| This does not apply to the Teenage Engineering... except
| to the extent that they've specced it out with fancy
| internal parts. They may well be avoiding jellybean op-
| amps etc. and producing unusually high quality analog
| stages. It IS possible to do that: I think Make Noise
| does it very well, and from what little I know about the
| Teenage Engineering thing, I wouldn't be surprised if
| they were performing on a very high level even though
| there's nothing retro about any of it.
|
| I'd love to see someone do a seriously overkill Pi
| DAC/ADC hat. What you're saying is not exactly untrue...
| just that the people habitually saying these things are
| also the farthest from being able to MAKE it be as true
| as they think. The Teenage Engineerings of the world are
| more likely to be able to deliver the goods.
| jelling wrote:
| The Yamaha DX7, the quintessential digital-replacing-analog
| synth, cost $2k USD in 1983, not $4-5k. I can't speak for
| what that cost in Euros (which didn't exist yet) or with
| import tariffs in an unspecified country. Today you can get
| one used for $500 USD. And while analog is and was more
| expensive, today you can get a Behringer Deep Mind 12 for
| $900 USD new and it sounds fantastic.
|
| Meanwhile, Teenage Engineering is selling a tiny digital
| synth for $1,200, which has less functionality than iPad. I
| find it hard to take serious as anything other than a
| design object but YMMV.
|
| https://meganlavengood.com/the-yamaha-dx7-in-synthesizer-
| his...
|
| https://www.amazon.com/engineering-Portable-Synthesizer-
| Cont...
| [deleted]
| oriolid wrote:
| Maybe an accident, but adjusted for inflation $2000 in
| 1983 USD corresponds to $5800 in current money.
| Electronics was expensive in the past.
| moralestapia wrote:
| Their business model is basically doing that + envy and fomo.
|
| Not criticizing it.
| tpmx wrote:
| It's the mechanics that's expensive. The casing, the beautiful
| metal knurled knobs, all of the various parts made at very high
| quality in relatively low numbers.
| foobarian wrote:
| Look how beautiful and well-designed it is. This is almost
| beyond Apple-level taste. I would throw money at this company
| if I had the inclination to get into this kind of hobby :-)
|
| edit: beyond just how it looks and the mechanical properties, I
| also wonder how much additional value they added during
| integration. Yes the BOM may sound trivial ("small signal
| processing FPGA, a bunch of ADC's and a couple DAC's") but IME
| it's easy to mess this up without a lot of extra attention.
| Example: my TV is plugged into a DAC which powers standing
| speakers, and every time I turn it on, there is a discontinuity
| that blasts a "pop" at maximum volume through the speakers
| regardless of volume level. Or you could end up with a line
| level hum if not shielded properly. Etc.
| bjt2n3904 wrote:
| Small run production with no expense spared of a designer
| product for niche applications.
|
| Expensive expensive expensive! That case looks like it was
| milled!
| kennywinker wrote:
| The niche application part is a little bit made up by them.
| Small mixers and audio interfaces are a HUGE market, and a
| saturated market. By going high end (by milling a case, for
| example) they shrink their market, but also shrink their
| competition. The number of portable mixers / audio interfaces
| / synthesizers (it's a synth too???) with super fancy
| cases... they might be the only one? The keith mcmillian
| k-mix is the only thing even similar I can think of and it's
| not that similar (and $699)
|
| Edit: someone in another comment pointed out the 1010 music
| bluebox, which is definitely more similar to this than the
| kmix, for $549
|
| Edit 2: I just remembered the existence of zoom recorders.
| The zoom h6 has 6 tracks, is a portable mixer and audio
| interface, and also includes 2 good microphones and can
| record without being tethered to another device. It's about
| $400. It's got a different vibe, but it's also quite
| beautiful
| duped wrote:
| Prosumer audio gadgets are a relatively small market, audio
| interfaces are a slice of that. Audio interfaces that
| function as mixers are even smaller.
|
| There's been a boon with stream decks the last few years,
| but the only part of that market that's saturated is the
| low end. There really are not that many high quality mixers
| and audio interfaces out there, and they are not really in
| a small form factor like this.
|
| Not to mention the codec shortage. Making a digital audio
| board right now _sucks_.
| kennywinker wrote:
| I think you might be underestimating the size of the
| market for audio interfaces and mixers - but that's just
| a feeling mostly based on how many of them are on
| craigslist at any given moment in my city.
|
| But either way you can't deny they're _choosing_ to go
| high end. They could have scaled down the software
| features of this by 10-20%, put it in a less "jony ive"
| case and sold it for $300-600 - but then they would've
| had more competition.
| duped wrote:
| The TAM for pro audio equipment was around $10 billion
| and growing when I left working in it a few years ago.
| One of the reasons the market is so terrible for
| manufacturers is that their own products on the secondary
| market cannibalize future sales, which puts a damper on
| demand. It's great for professionals that can afford the
| high prices and buy stuff that last decades, but not
| great for an industry that needs to make new sales each
| year and develop future products. There's always cool
| stuff to build and develop, don't get me wrong, it's just
| not worth a ton of money which means that development
| times are long, prices stay pretty high for the good
| stuff, and talent is constantly siphoned by other markets
| (for example: consumer loudspeakers and AR/VR products:
| Apple/Google/Facebook/Amazon have been on hiring sprees
| for audio hardware/software developers for the last
| decade)
|
| Over the last decade there was a growth in new products,
| but there's a lot of crap. There was also a lot of
| consolidation and acquisition because audio hardware
| manufacturing is such an expensive thing to do for a
| small market, particularly on the high end.
| tomcam wrote:
| The Zoom H6 has fabulous audio but... beautiful? Looks like
| a Klingon marital aid to me
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> I wonder why it's so expensive [...] Wouldn't this product
| just contain a small signal processing FPGA, a bunch of ADC's
| and a couple DAC's?_
|
| If tech products should cost the sum of their parts then an
| iPhone 14 Pro and an RTX 3090 should cost about $300. After
| all, they're just a PCB with some components on them.
|
| You're ignoring the enormous R&D costs (engineering salaries,
| hardware prototyping, sales, marketing, support, etc.) that
| must be recouped, while also turning a profit, through the sale
| of each of these low volume products.
|
| Developing consumer hardware in the west aint cheap, that's why
| most western brands other than Apple, and a few other high-end
| niche ones, pulled out of the consumer market.
| tinco wrote:
| I'm not ignoring anything, I'm explicitly not comparing it to
| consumer hardware in the first line of my comment.
| abxytg wrote:
| it has 8 oonboard fx that can be applied to the tracks. drum
| machine and synth onboard. Multitrack usb audio device.
| n42 wrote:
| am I missing something, or is that a giant paddle power switch
| that can/will be accidentally pushed downward to off while
| working?
|
| edit: nope, that's exactly what that is. $1,200 for a mixer you
| can't use live without duct taping it, I guess.
| https://teenage.engineering/guides/tx-6#power-on
| tomtheelder wrote:
| If you wanted to go with that design then surely down for on
| would make more sense, right? Odd choice.
| n42 wrote:
| Hopefully it's quite a firm switch
| jacquesm wrote:
| Regardless it should have been a recessed slide.
| IAmPym wrote:
| "Why is it so expensive?" - commentary from someone who does this
| for a living at Sequential
|
| Small Volume - each unit is more expensive than a large volume
| product, you don't get price breaks on any components or tooling
| costs
|
| Design focused - Who is the product for? It isn't for people who
| want to spend 250$ on a Behringer mixer. It is for people who
| want something that is high quality and doesn't break. Reliable.
| For people that rely on their tools to be creative or appreciate
| design. You are paying a premium. See Apple for lots of examples.
| This is also one of the biggest strengths of the company, if you
| want something cheap you're looking in the wrong place.
|
| Complex - the amount of balance of various components here adds a
| lot to the design and development costs. Battery is an unusual
| feature but puts it in a different product category. Balancing
| that with the audio quality and reliability is not a trivial
| problem. Add in wireless, audio drivers (not trivial at ALL),
| Complexity increases development time and adds risk to the long
| term stability of the product, that is added into the cost.
|
| Most of the small features feel like somebody there thought it
| would be fun and/or easy to put in. It's a good way to iterate
| through design ideas, you have to see it in reality. That type of
| prototyping isn't easy. Most people don't use 90% of the features
| but when you are in a creative industry the 1% that does
| absolutely LOVES it and uses it in ways you never expected. It's
| difficult to balance the amount of development you put into fun
| things vs. business cases.
|
| If you are trying to figure out why you'd pay for this you aren't
| their target market. It's far more interesting (to me) to think
| about why some people WOULD pay for this and what a market looks
| like that you are not a part of
| erichmond wrote:
| As an owner of a Rev2 and a P6 really cool to see you here Pym!
| briankelly wrote:
| > doesn't break
|
| Can get behind the rest of your comment but I don't think
| anyone's ever accused TE of making durable products. To their
| credit though, they replaced my broken PO without a fuss, so
| I'm not a detractor.
| relaxing wrote:
| The PO series are a different beast entirely. You can't
| compare their $80 toy synths made of PC board to their high
| end stuff.
| IAmPym wrote:
| I have used TE products on occasion and looked into them
| deeply from a bunch of engineering perspectives. Compared to
| other products in a similar price point and form factor the
| likelihood of a problem is far lower. When you reduce the
| size you eliminate structural components and if you can't
| mill aluminum you're left with a lot of difficult choices to
| make to keep things stable. TE does a good job of balancing
| those things.
|
| Customer service is where you see the end result of this.
| Replacing things quickly and easily means they aren't
| struggling to support bad design decisions in terms of
| stability.
| briankelly wrote:
| Good to know! Very jealous of your line of work, btw, seems
| like a great place to be!
| thih9 wrote:
| Another data point, I own OP-1 and I find it of low
| durability, especially for the price. E.g. its knobs,
| buttons and jacks seem delicate compared to other gear in
| similar price range.
| LegitShady wrote:
| this has not been my experience with several TE products.
|
| My experience suggests that TE charges a lot because they
| 1) they're a status symbol so they can and 2) they replace
| a lot of devices.
|
| TE to me does not at all signify high quality or 'good
| build quality'. Just 'ok' and 'it will likely fail long
| before its purchase price justifies itself'.
|
| They're the pre-intel apple of the synth world - overpriced
| and not worth the cost, but status symbols for those who
| want them.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Tell that to all the bent Op-Z owners whose dials pop out
| randomly from the case.
| hpvic03 wrote:
| Hey! While you're here, could you share why the Tempest doesn't
| allow you to use your own samples?
|
| Could you guys open source some parts of Tempest so people
| could keep working on it?
|
| Asking as a Tempest owner and huge Sequential fan.
| IAmPym wrote:
| Chip/hardware complexity. We actually put some serious
| resources into trying to get this to work, wish we could have
| made it a reality
|
| And no, open sourcing would be incredibly difficult to do
| with hardware that has multiple chips and requires people to
| have expensive programming tools. If it was an ARM you could
| just plug a USB cable into that'd be one thing, this just
| wouldn't work without a ton of support
|
| And glad you liked it! I'm quite proud of it all in all
| hpvic03 wrote:
| Interesting.
|
| There are those pre-installed samples there already, they
| couldn't just be swapped out with an imported file -
| there's something special about those files?
|
| Anyway I think it's hugely underrated, hopefully you guys
| can do a v2 sometime. I'm blown away whenever I use it, it
| feels like a huge technical achievement.
| IAmPym wrote:
| Technically they could and that as well was something we
| looked into. Honestly it was the most complicated thing
| I've ever done. Would love to give it another shot some
| day!
| nkozyra wrote:
| > Design focused - Who is the product for? It isn't for people
| who want to spend 250$ on a Behringer mixer.
|
| Seems like it's competing against the Tascam model line. I have
| a model 12 that I'll bet blows it out of the water in the
| reliability department at almost half the price.
|
| It's not as small but it's pretty and rock solid, Tascam has a
| great track record (no pun intended)
| repiret wrote:
| I'm part of a team that makes low volume high priced
| electronics. Component costs don't contribute that much: the
| price difference between qty 1 and qty 1k is usually much
| larger than between qty 1k and anything more. The things I see
| contributing to the cost of low quantity hardware are:
|
| 1. The need to amortize development costs over fewer units.
| This is not just software and hardware engineers, but office
| space, lab equipment, mechanical engineering for enclosures,
| prototype builds, emissions and compliance testing (FCC, CE,
| UL, TUV, depending device and on target market)
|
| 2. Higher manufacturing costs. Low cost overseas manufacturing
| has fairly high fixed costs, especially if you want to maintain
| high quality.
| H1Supreme wrote:
| > $250 on a Behringer mixer.
|
| Yamaha, Mackie, Allen & Heath, Soundcraft, and ART all make
| mixers with at least 6 channels on them in the $250 price
| range. So, there's more to the mixer landscape than Teenage
| Eng. and Behringer.
|
| I can't comment on all the brands, but I've used Yamaha and
| Mackie for years, with virtually zero problems. My old Yamaha
| 12 channel (which would retail for $300 today) was an absolute
| tank. It did countless shows in dirty warehouses, clubs,
| fields, and never even had a road case! Which, I I'd qualify as
| pretty reliable.
|
| > If you are trying to figure out why you'd pay for this you
| aren't their target market
|
| I actually think that I am their target market. I've got many
| thousands of dollars worth of eurorack modular (which is the
| same niche), synthesizers (including Sequential), guitars, and
| studio equipment. I obsess over this stuff, and spend money on
| it.
|
| But, I cannot figure out why I would spend $1200 on this 6
| channel mixer. The Burr Brown ADC? I guess you could argue the
| size is the selling point. But, that seems more like a solution
| looking for a problem. And, frankly, if you intend to use a
| mixer in your performance, the size could do more harm than
| good.
| wyager wrote:
| > Reliable. It is for people who want something that is high
| quality and doesn't break.
|
| My TE OP-1 synth has not really matched these adjectives.
|
| One of the keyboard keys is misconstructed, so it's on a hair
| trigger. The lightest brush will cause it to get set off. I
| have to replace the keyboard at some point to fix it. This
| should have been caught in QC.
|
| It also undergoes fairly frequent software crashes (esp. for a
| musical instrument). I've crashed it at least 3 times doing
| random UI interactions.
|
| Given that this is one of their flagship products, and a lot of
| people use adjectives like "reliable" and "quality" to describe
| it, I'm very skeptical that these descriptions are actually
| accurate when applied to other TE products.
| IAmPym wrote:
| Small sample size bias
|
| Small companies don't have the same QC that a large
| corporation does, you'll never get the same consistency
| across products at the early stages of a company. Unfair to
| compare against that.
|
| You should definitely contact support and let them know, my
| guess is they'll take care of the keyboard. Could be debris
| inside it somewhere, could be a number of other tolerance
| issues or something else.
|
| Crashes are definitely a problem. Knowing the chip they use
| and the complexity under the hood. The fact is though, all
| instruments suffer from issues like this. You will not find a
| single piece of gear on the market that doesn't have bugs.
| Crash issues are rare in our gear only because they are more
| simple by comparison. When I was writing the Tempest OS I had
| tons of crash bugs I had to work through because it was
| ambitious and quite complex, nearly all of which got fixed as
| the OS matured. Same with the OP-1 I'd imagine.
|
| Professional musicians learn to work around things and create
| systems to deal with inevitable problems. It's just the
| reality of the game.
| DoctorNick wrote:
| > Crashes are definitely a problem. Knowing the chip they
| use and the complexity under the hood. The fact is though,
| all instruments suffer from issues like this. You will not
| find a single piece of gear on the market that doesn't have
| bugs. Crash issues are rare in our gear only because they
| are more simple by comparison. When I was writing the
| Tempest OS I had tons of crash bugs I had to work through
| because it was ambitious and quite complex, nearly all of
| which got fixed as the OS matured. Same with the OP-1 I'd
| imagine.
|
| It's been on the market for TEN YEARS. They have had plenty
| of time to defuckulate the software.
| IAmPym wrote:
| I'm just trying to give you perspective
|
| Nearly every complex instrument still has critical bugs
| after 10 years because development moves on after 4-5
| years. Hardware bugs are != software bugs in terms of
| complexity because the debugging and tools you have
| available are simply not even close to comparable. This
| is why you don't get a whole lot of complex instruments
| from small companies. I applaud anyone who gives it a
| shot, it isn't easy.
| jacquesm wrote:
| That's where open sourcing it might come in handy. Oh,
| and don't worry about 'hobbyists' not being able to get
| their hands on expensive toolchains, that's their problem
| once they can get their hands on the source and that's
| you holding that back based on the assumption that they
| won't be able to do anything with it.
| wyager wrote:
| > I applaud anyone who gives it a shot, it isn't easy.
|
| You make it sound like a hobby project and not a $1200
| instrument nominally targeted at professionals.
|
| The reality is that nothing I do on the OP-1 is very
| complicated. It should be a lot more reliable than it is.
| Phrodo_00 wrote:
| > Unfair to compare against that.
|
| They're a consumer business, they get to be compared
| against other similar businesses. A product's quality
| rating shouldn't depend on the size of the company.
| blub wrote:
| I agree with you mostly about why it would be expensive, but
| Teenage Engineering doesn't have a reputation for building
| reliable devices. I own an OP-1, owned two POs and considered
| getting an OP-Z only to be scared away by all the reports about
| poor hardware quality and support.
|
| The OP-Z plastic casing apparently bends. Sometimes it comes
| like that out of the factory (or more likely gets that way
| during storage and transport) often times it bends with use.
| This means that buttons will slide out of position, keys will
| trigger multiple times, etc.
|
| The manufacturer doesn't have any solution to the above problem
| and returning it for a replacement may result in a straight
| case or more of the same. All signs indicate that it's a design
| defect, but TE haven't recognised this and they're getting
| punished in reviews.
|
| The POs are flimsy, and the knobs tend to be imprecise and
| "jump" between values. One came with rust on a metal part
| because of TEs creative open packaging which exposes the
| devices to the surrounding environment.
|
| The OP-1 itself seems solid as far as hardware goes so far, but
| it has other issues. It's noisy for one, which goes against
| claims of audio quality. The software's buggy and it records
| clicks together with the incoming audio, especially when
| recording external instruments. These are all well known
| problems. And given that the OP-1 is supposed to be a synth, or
| at least a groovebox, it's surprisingly hard to create good
| sounding patches with it.
| [deleted]
| twobitshifter wrote:
| I didn't have the why is it so expensive reaction at all. Mine
| was "looks really expensive but maybe it's not", and then
| disappointment in the cost. However I totally expected it to
| cost around $1000. I don't qualify as anything other than a
| noodler so I wouldn't spend that money on it, but as you say
| professionals would.
| koof wrote:
| I've been looking for a tiny mixer with 3 band eq + FX sends
| per channel for a while to run synths and/or decks through.
| This look like this might fit the bill. The compressor on each
| channel is a bonus. I'm not entirely sure if there's
| alternative products that would work for me instead, but this
| has my attention.
| mmastrac wrote:
| I bought an OP-1 a few years back and it's done nothing but go up
| in value
| zasdffaa wrote:
| Top 3 rows seem to be dials/knobs to twiddle, is that right? They
| are so close together even that female model's hand looks like it
| would have trouble grasping one of them without forcing aside the
| knobs next to it. AKA they seem very cramped.
| [deleted]
| PhilipTrauner wrote:
| Looks a bit like their cancelled take on Kanye West's stem player
| (https://imgur.com/a/ECehY1T), especially those faders on the
| front.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| Definitely the design language but doesn't seem to carry over
| any of the functionality, just seems like a standard mixer.
| seshu_ wrote:
| Oh, I just heard of this company and thought to myself that why
| are music instruments so expensive, but after reading the
| comments I have realised it's the Apple of it's kind.
| squarefoot wrote:
| Spot on. Their target is rich people who like sleek "different"
| design and are willing to pay a big premium for that.
| pmags wrote:
| Small, portable mixers with lots of stereo inputs are relatively
| rare. That plus the Teenage Engineering "tax" (think Apple tax
| but for synth-heads) is driving the price. A cheaper, but
| slightly less tactile alternative is the 1010 Music Bluebox:
|
| https://1010music.com/product/bluebox
| halfnhalf wrote:
| Bluebox doesn't have a digital interface and can only record to
| an sd card. USB is only for power :/
| pmags wrote:
| Indeed I do occasionally wish the bluebox also acted as an
| interface, but I also really like the fact that the Bluebox
| is a stand alone recorder (unlike the TX-6). I often don't
| want to be sitting in front of a computer when I'm jamming
| and making music.
|
| There are two USB interfaces on the bluebox -- one for power,
| the other USB midi devices.
| [deleted]
| LegitShady wrote:
| Most synth heads I know don't like teenage engineering and see
| them as overpriced underengineered nerd tech.
|
| I own an op-z and used to own some pocket operators. They will
| be the last teenage engineering products I own. Everything they
| release seems more ridiculous all the time. Just the ob-4 is
| enough for me to say "these are not products for synth people
| but tech nerds who want synths"
| elliotlarson wrote:
| Yeah, I have a BlueBox and it works great. You can also add
| tactility with an external controller like:
| https://intech.studio, and you're still in the ballpark of like
| half the price of the TE mixer. I mean, I still want one,
| though. LOL.
| womitt wrote:
| I like intech.studio'a approach better
| 9999 wrote:
| Didn't know about this company and glad to learn about them! I
| was actually looking for something exactly like their PO16
| recently and had some PCBs and panels fabbed to make my own (17
| pots for the build I found on lines).
| kennywinker wrote:
| For everyone drooling over the design of this, here's a fun
| little form-over-function tidbit from the fine print:
|
| > high quality, slimline cables custom-made for TX-6. the narrow
| profile allows you to use all 6 channels at once and makes for an
| easy pack down.
|
| Sounds like the input jacks are so close together not every 3.5mm
| audio cable will work with it. Like a phone without a headphone
| jack - bring a special adaptor or no sounds for you. Lol
| jedimastert wrote:
| Taking a look at a pic of the back the jacks look to be about
| 3mm apart, which seems fine for most 3.5mm straight jack
| cables. What I'm betting is that most people don't have 6 3.5mm
| to 3.5mm cables, given that most boards and interfaces take
| 1/4"
| kennywinker wrote:
| 3mm of space only leaves room for 1.5mm of extra radius per
| cable. I just eyeballed my cable drawer and I only saw one
| kind that might fit next to each other with that little
| clearance. It's gonna be a pain... not a huge pain, but a
| pain nonetheless. idk why they couldn't just add a little
| extra width and avoid the pain with most cables. Especially
| since what you'll need most of the time isn't going to be the
| 1/8" to 1/8" cables they're going to give you - but 1/4" to
| 1/8" cables - since most instruments have 1/4" outputs
| MisterSandman wrote:
| To be fair, 3.5mm and 1/4" are virtually equivalent ports,
| and the only reason 1/4" is used for audio interfaces is
| because of convention (and probably because it's easier to
| grab). Converters between them should be dirt cheap.
|
| It's not like Apple shipping 2022 iPhones with Lightning v/s
| USB C
| eternityforest wrote:
| Converters are an issue when the whole point is small size.
|
| I wish they'd develop a full USB-C alternate mode for pro
| audio.
|
| One C cable could do dozens of channels, or one of legacy
| analog, and provide clean regulated power for wireless
| gear, and the connectors pack very densely.
|
| You could even make it daisy chainable, plus speakers could
| be powered over PD at small shows, and so could lights.
| relaxing wrote:
| At 0.5mm pitch between connectors the crosstalk would be
| nasty.
| postexitus wrote:
| yes, but you can use non-adjascent ports with standard 3.5mm
| audio cables - if you are that bothered, assume it's a 3
| channel board with an option to upgrade to 6 if you buy the
| special cables.
| kennywinker wrote:
| Did you just "You're holding it wrong" me? :)
|
| They could have brilliantly designed their way out of that by
| making the whole thing ~1.5cm wider (3mm extra five times).
|
| A zoom h6 is a well designed portable battery powered mixer /
| audio interface with 4 easily accessible inputs and two that
| might need an adaptor depending on your cabling. It also
| comes with two high quality microphones, and records without
| being tethered to another device. For $409
| [deleted]
| azornathogron wrote:
| 3 channels for the price of 6 is still a terrible deal.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| It's Teenage Engineering, so more like the price of 8 or
| 12. Also, no balanced inputs.
| kennywinker wrote:
| Balanced inputs are useful for cancelling noise in long
| cable runs. There are no long cable runs if your target
| audience is people making aesthetic 60s instagram videos
| of their "synth jam in nature" with $2000 of gear in shot
| and $2000 more to film it.
| sparker72678 wrote:
| Darn. I saw TRRS and assumed balance mono inputs.
| nathanvanfleet wrote:
| lol
| relaxing wrote:
| Can't believe no one's said if you're spending $1200 bucks on
| this thing, you can probably drop $60 on some cables.
| tpmx wrote:
| Can anyone identify the manufacturer of the beautiful knurled
| knobs?
|
| I only know about Kilo International in Orem, Utah
| (http://www.kilointernational.com/) in this space. They don't
| look like any of their standard parts.
| unwind wrote:
| They state that they have "custom encoders", and in such
| marketing text that might well mean custom encoder _knobs_.
| ruined wrote:
| at that price, they could be custom. and looking at the
| geometry they could be made any place doing contract c&c.
| tpmx wrote:
| Yeah, that's probably the case. I guess that's part of their
| DNA - do the design first, without really thinking about
| what's already out there. (But with a firm view on what's
| possible to custom make.)
| [deleted]
| simonjgreen wrote:
| Me looking at the new Teenage Engineering TX-6: "Mmmhmmm, yep,
| yep, like, yep, that's beautiful, I think I'll probably... OH MY
| GOD HOW MUCH"
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-04-21 23:00 UTC)