[HN Gopher] Interactive, file-level Time Machine-like tool for ZFS
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Interactive, file-level Time Machine-like tool for ZFS
Author : codetrotter
Score : 145 points
Date : 2022-04-27 19:09 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| gigatexal wrote:
| I've been waiting for someone to build this. Awesome!
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Thanks for the link. This will be cool, I use FreeBSD as daily
| driver so ZFS is already a given.
| jedberg wrote:
| Fun fact: When Apple first built Time Machine, the goal was that
| ZFS would be the root filesystem. That's why the TM UX fits so
| nicely with ZFS. Sadly the licensing issues scared Apple off from
| adopting ZFS.
| jjoonathan wrote:
| Yeah, that original interface was wild
| https://youtu.be/2HixPtvIWhY?t=2174
|
| if only ZFS hadn't fallen through! Speaking of which, are there
| any public plans to do this with APFS or are they just trying
| to push everyone into the cloud?
| anyfoo wrote:
| The video is grainy, but isn't that still the TimeMachine UI
| since then? And with APFS at least it now also integrates
| snapshots, not just external backups?
| jedberg wrote:
| The current interface doesn't have the stars and space
| theme, but yeah, it's pretty much the same.
| jedberg wrote:
| Yeah it was the perfect UX for ZFS. Real shame the two
| couldn't have evolved together.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| From what I'm reading, Time Machine has been using APFS
| snapshots for local snapshots since High Sierra, and since
| Big Sur for the primary backup (assuming target drive is APFS
| formatted).
| throw0101a wrote:
| > _Sadly the licensing issues scared Apple off from adopting
| ZFS._
|
| It was not licensing. ZFS is licensed the exact same way as
| Dtrace, and Dtrace is part of Mac OS / macOS.
|
| It was signing a 'support' contract with Sun: terms couldn't be
| agreed to. From Jeff Bonwick (co-creator of ZFS) on the _zfs-
| users_ list at the time: > Apple can
| currently just take the ZFS CDDL code and incorporate it
| > (like they did with DTrace), but it may be that they wanted a
| "private > license" from Sun (with appropriate
| technical support and > indemnification), and the two
| entities couldn't come to mutually > agreeable terms.
| I cannot disclose details, but that is the essence of it.
|
| *
| https://web.archive.org/web/20121221111757/http://mail.opens...
| jedberg wrote:
| It says it right there -- they wanted a "private license"
| which Sun could/would not give them.
| justinjlynn wrote:
| Sadly, it's typical of Apple to want special treatment from
| vendors. In a way, I'm sad that we didn't get a MacOS based
| on ZFS. That would've been nice.
| Affric wrote:
| If you read further in the thread it's hinted at that
| Apple mainly wanted indemnification from legal action and
| the Net App saga was ongoing at the time.
|
| Considering that Apple would be rolling it out to many
| users through high margin computers this is a reasonable
| concern.
| mdaniel wrote:
| I've used OpenZFS on OSX
| (https://github.com/openzfsonosx/openzfs#readme) and it's
| been better to me for cross-os drive sharing than NTFS or
| UFS, despite their warnings about using it on USB devices
|
| I hear you about a ZFS root partition, though
| rbanffy wrote:
| How ironic they are now the largest manufacturer of Unix
| workstations...
| peatmoss wrote:
| I remember the WWDC that seemed to have a very "solar"
| graphical motif and my friends and I were all freaking out with
| speculation that Solaris and OS X were going to merge in some
| meaningful way.
|
| That unfortunately happened in the good timeline where Scheme
| in the browser also happened.
| jedberg wrote:
| The video from WWDC is linked in a sibling comment. It had
| that universe theme with a star field and the files shrinking
| back into a supernova.
|
| > That unfortunately happened in the good timeline where
| Scheme in the browser also happened.
|
| Oh man that would be amazing. It would be so much better than
| javascript!
| vondur wrote:
| I think it was due to a lawsuit EMC had going against Sun over
| ZFS.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I thought it was Jonathan Schwartz embarassing Steve Jobs by
| announcing it was coming to macOS himself. Which was a big
| deal at the time.
|
| I always thought that was a petty reason but I didn't really
| consider it beyond Steve Jobs to do that to be honest. He
| really took such matters very personally.
|
| But your explanation sounds more reasonable. I really thought
| this until now though.
| throw0101a wrote:
| It was a 'support contract' between Sun and Apple not being
| able to be agreed to:
|
| * https://web.archive.org/web/20121221111757/http://mail.op
| ens...
| dburkland wrote:
| I think you mean with NetApp
| tjoff wrote:
| This is great, I've often wondered why so little focus is spent
| on tools like this. Feels like low hanging fruit given the great
| usability improvements they can bring.
|
| All the talks about backups but the reason people don't do it is
| partly because the tooling is so bad. (no, snapshots is not a
| proper backup by itself, but a great addition to).
|
| Wondering if btrfs will get some love too.
| Affric wrote:
| My theory based on reading comments from ZFS devs is that as
| resources are somewhat limited and most people who use it are a
| bit technical these kind of things are low priority so they go
| slowly.
| atoav wrote:
| There _is_ timeshift for btrfs. Sadly it only works for certain
| very standard btrfs subvolume layouts and if you deviate only
| slightly from that it is no longer supported..
| Melatonic wrote:
| People kinda love shitting on Windows here but VSS (Shadow Copy)
| is actually a very underrated and solid feature. Works with NTFS
| and even better ReFS
| lacrosse_tannin wrote:
| A long time ago, I set up some zfs-in-a-box-OS thing, and
| hooked to active directory (i think?) and samba, and windows
| explorer had a built in context menu to restore files to older
| versions.
| lacrosse_tannin wrote:
| A long time ago, I set up some zfs-in-a-box-OS thing (some
| solaris fork), and hooked to active directory (i think?) and
| samba, and windows explorer had a built in context menu to
| restore files to older versions.
| paulkon wrote:
| Only thing with VSS is that ransomware can delete all your
| snapshots. Samba shares on ZFS via TrueNAS or the like with VSS
| support mitigates that attack vector.
|
| Speaking of, any stats out there on which proportion of
| ransomware is targeted at which distro for linux, freebsd,
| windows and mac os?
| water8 wrote:
| Very cool! ZFS is a fantastic filesystem. Very easy to use and
| effective at preventing things like bit-rot which can plague
| large infrequently accessed datasets that are stored on cheap
| HDDs
| aphrax wrote:
| Looks good. I still miss the OpenSolaris ZFS / Gnome Integration
| - 'time slider' iirc..
| joseph wrote:
| Yes, me too. That was peak desktop experience over ten years
| ago.
| marcodiego wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31185021
| aphrax wrote:
| thats the one, and it was great!
| marcodiego wrote:
| Most interesting is how snappy the thing looked, especially
| combined with compiz. Looks like we lost our way somewhere
| between 2008-2012 or these effects are really only
| impressive for a few hours. Nevertheless, I'm pretty
| satisfied with my desktop nowadays.
| gclawes wrote:
| Broken link?
| ssl232 wrote:
| Enable showdead. It points to
| https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7oe8l btw.
| rbanffy wrote:
| Interestingly, Solaris had a UI component for ZFS snapshots built
| into Gnome's file explorer. Not sure if it's still there though.
| IIRC, OpenSolaris had it.
|
| Sadly, the screenshots seem to be gone...
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20081016104234/http://blogs.sun....
|
| edit: found a couple places with the UI:
|
| https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/zfs-finding-its-way-lin...
|
| https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2008/10/opens...
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