[HN Gopher] Overgrowth: Open-Source Announcement
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       Overgrowth: Open-Source Announcement
        
       Author : kjeetgill
       Score  : 59 points
       Date   : 2022-04-26 05:34 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.wolfire.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.wolfire.com)
        
       | daenz wrote:
        
         | idle_zealot wrote:
         | This doesn't sound quite right. The devs did this with their
         | last game, Lugaru, too. They just seem to like the old idtech
         | model of releasing their engines to the community when they
         | finish their games. I doubt they expect anyone to make another
         | game with the engine, it's more for modding and porting
         | Overgrowth itself.
        
         | Scaevolus wrote:
         | That's unnecessarily negative. It's a 14 year old codebase that
         | they want to share with people that might be interested, not a
         | bid to compete with other engines.
         | 
         | > To be clear, this is not "the next big engine". Since great
         | open source game engines like Godot exist, using Overgrowth's
         | engine for your next game project is a bad choice in almost all
         | cases. However, if you..
         | 
         | > * Are interested in looking at what shipped game code can
         | look like.
         | 
         | > * Want to look at specific code, like the procedural
         | animation system.
         | 
         | > * Are an Overgrowth modder who wants to make a more involved
         | total conversion or mod.
         | 
         | > Then this is for you!
        
           | daenz wrote:
           | "Please take our ancient codebase that will take a long time
           | to learn, with 0 assets to make it usable out-of-the-box, but
           | don't use it for a real game because it doesn't make sense to
           | do."
           | 
           | That sounds the authors are giving up on the project, not
           | that it's an opportunity for Wolfire to leverage the
           | community to build a brand new thing.
        
             | nvrspyx wrote:
             | > That sounds the authors are giving up on the project, not
             | that it's an opportunity for Wolfire to leverage the
             | community to build a brand new thing.
             | 
             | It doesn't have to be either of these things. They have
             | been very clear that they're releasing the code as open
             | source as a learning experience for those interested in one
             | or more of these three things:
             | 
             | 1. Are interested in looking at what shipped game code can
             | look like.
             | 
             | 2. Want to look at specific code, like the procedural
             | animation system.
             | 
             | 3. Are an Overgrowth modder who wants to make a more
             | involved total conversion or mod
             | 
             | They haven't given up on the project nor are they
             | attempting to leverage the community for anything. Instead,
             | they are releasing their code for others to see (and
             | potentially use) in case it's useful...full stop. The code
             | is released under the Apache license in the case that
             | someone wants to reuse the code for their own project and
             | sell it. Actual content is not included because then
             | someone could just resell Overgrowth.
             | 
             | This viewpoint of yours is unnecessarily dense and
             | pessimistic, especially in regards to a company that has
             | done exactly this same thing in the past with Lugaru.
        
               | daenz wrote:
               | >The code is released under the Apache license in the
               | case that someone wants to reuse the code for their own
               | project and sell it.
               | 
               | From their post: >using Overgrowth's engine for your next
               | game project is a bad choice in almost all cases.
               | 
               | Also why only open source it 14 years later? Makes no
               | sense.
               | 
               | Also this was announced a week ago and not a single
               | person has commented/liked/whatever on the post at the
               | bottom. These are all signals.
               | 
               | You can call it pessimistic and dense, but I think people
               | who claim this project is going to be actively developed
               | in 5 years are being optimistic and naive. I'm willing to
               | make a small wager on my claim, open to any takers.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | setr wrote:
             | Who said anything about leveraging the community for
             | anything? Stop putting words in people's mouths and
             | actually read what's in front of you.
             | 
             | Overgrowth is the kind of legendary horrifically scope-
             | creeped passion project that any even mildly responsible PM
             | would have put to the grave a decade ago, whose developers
             | are so stupidly obsessed and time-oblivious with the most
             | minute and arbitrary details that you couldn't even dream
             | of a "release" version until it already happened.
             | 
             | This project is the kind that can't die until they do, or
             | they get thoroughly bored of it.
             | 
             | They released the source. That's it. I don't know why you
             | want so badly to assume malice
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | On the contrary, accepting patches for inclusion in the
         | commercial game means it's very much not dead...
         | 
         | It's also understandable people are shifting to using
         | mainstream engines as a baseline. Not just because of the
         | insane complexity involved in a modern AAA game, but skill
         | transfer. If you work 14 years on a bespoke engine, your skills
         | won't necessarily translate to your next job where you're using
         | an entirely different platform.
        
           | daenz wrote:
           | Why not open source it in the first 13 years? How many bugs
           | or modifications are there left in a 14 year old game? Unreal
           | Engine is like Walmart and Amazon, and indie game engines
           | (like this) are like the mom-and-pop shops. Time will tell if
           | I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
        
       | rgovostes wrote:
       | Of historical interest, this game was created by David Rosen, who
       | started the Humble Bundle with his brother. I had no idea it was
       | still in development. In the early days of the project it was
       | pretty impressive to see the engine evolving under the work of a
       | single teenage developer, including features like ragdoll physics
       | which were novel at the time.
        
       | andrewmcwatters wrote:
       | Game engine development is so ridiculously hard. The industry has
       | plenty of little libraries that do some significant upfront
       | lifting, but there's just plenty out there that isn't done for
       | you. Stuff you wouldn't even think about until you realize you
       | want a feature that isn't there. And the further you progress,
       | and the more you learn, the fewer references and prior art you
       | can turn to, because the combinatorics of finding someone who has
       | built up all of those areas of discipline becomes exponentially
       | harder to find.
       | 
       | There are still proprietary technologies today that are decades
       | old that the free and open source community has not recreated
       | simply because for all of the people that work in this space,
       | open source and commercial, there are just not many people at the
       | high end of the scale working on those interesting problems.
       | Those problems are the ones that generally become commercial
       | solutions because no one else is doing it.
       | 
       | After over 14 years of development, I would love to hear what
       | little big problems like this the authors came across.
        
       | natly wrote:
       | It's strange how much this game has affected me over the years
       | (just by following its development) even though I've never even
       | played it.
        
         | shahar2k wrote:
         | considering these guys made the humble bundle in between bouts
         | of making this game... (plus a bunch of other projects I
         | personally love)
        
       | _aavaa_ wrote:
       | Such fond memories of this game. The fighting mechanics were
       | amazing. I hope that this has the intended effect, allow other
       | developers to learn how it was done, what mistakes look like, and
       | for case studies of how things are done.
        
       | JoeOfTexas wrote:
       | I watched this around its early days, even bought into the
       | kickstarter. I guess I got old cause I didn't even know it was
       | released haha.
       | 
       | The animation techniques were pretty impressive at the time
       | because Unity / Unreal didn't have anything like it yet.
        
       | posnet wrote:
       | Link to the actual repo:
       | https://github.com/WolfireGames/overgrowth
        
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       (page generated 2022-04-28 23:00 UTC)