[HN Gopher] Pets Are Not Luggage
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Pets Are Not Luggage
Author : Kaibeezy
Score : 64 points
Date : 2022-04-28 19:21 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (petairways.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (petairways.com)
| korse wrote:
| First world countries are proposing to fight climate change,
| while rolling out air carrier services to transport bulk
| chihuahuas. I feel like this is going to be an excellent target
| for those in favor of a carbon neutral future.
| fullshark wrote:
| Are the images below the improvement? What does it look like in
| an commercial airliner?
|
| Edit: Yes I mean what perardi shares below, it's not far off what
| I imagine traveling in cargo hold is like for pets.
| xeromal wrote:
| It looks like petairways has the animals in a temperature
| controlled environment and they're monitored during transit.
| perardi wrote:
| You mean this one?
|
| https://secureservercdn.net/166.62.114.250/tje.5a9.myftpuplo...
|
| It's actually better if you view the full-resolution version--
| looks far less like a prison. Poor choice of on-camera flash,
| and poor choice of moping dog.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| but great name for the little dog!
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > What does it look like in an commercial airliner?
|
| Depends. Unaccompanied animals are transported in the cargo
| hold, though I believe some care is taken (they're not just
| tossed in like luggage). Small animals can be taken with you if
| they will fit under the seat, on some airlines.
| ldoughty wrote:
| In order to fit under the seat... Would that mean your pets
| are mice? Or ants? Barely enough room for my feet under some
| airline seats... I doubt any breed of cat or dog would fit,
| unless they were <1 year old.
| bmitc wrote:
| I have flown with my cat several times. It's unbelievably
| annoying and my cat is the by far the least of my worries.
| Usually, it's a $100 or so fee one way, so around $200 round
| trip. But yet, they take up one of your carry on luggage bags,
| and you have to sign something that they (the airline) will
| provide absolutely additional service for anything and they have
| no liability. Then, they only allow a certain amount of pets on
| the flight (their discretion?), and so it amounts to a first
| come, first serve basis. There's no way to pre-register the pet.
| You have to do it when you check in. So, what is the ridiculous
| fee even for?
|
| Oh, and to go through security, you have to take a nervous and
| scared cat out of their carry case in the middle of the security
| line, walk through the medical detector, and then they have to
| test both of your hands for residue while still carrying the cat.
| They will _not_ let you put the cat back before they've tested
| your hands. It makes no sense.
|
| The whole process and fee is basically security and the airlines
| saying "we're annoyed, so we'll make you pay for it with process
| and fees".
|
| I always make it a point to notify the passengers next to me that
| I have a cat in case they are allergic. This again is something
| the airline does not care about to do themselves, which again
| makes no sense because it's probably the single biggest risk for
| the flight and passengers (someone having an allergic reaction in
| the middle of a flight).
| rdl wrote:
| People have tried this so many times and it always fails. It's a
| huge issue for going to/from Puerto Rico, due to 1) weather 2)
| shitty ground services 3) no land connection. My friend has
| planes and one of them will be part 135 (charter) compatible, so
| I've been looking at doing monthly flights with a vet and ~10
| animals for 2.5h from South Florida to Puerto Rico (especially
| for people with animals banned on flights due to size or facial
| structure, or people who value their pets enough to be less price
| sensitive generally).
|
| (I fly cats for adoption from PR to ATL, MIA, FLL, TPA sometimes;
| it's interesting traveling with them in the cabin. Usually they
| are very young kittens and very quiet the whole time.)
| sf_rob wrote:
| I think it's just not overriding a Wordpress template default,
| but it's hilarious that their main homepage link goes to a
| wedding rsvp url* lol.
|
| *https://divi.dev/wedding/#rsvp
| drewcoo wrote:
| Great! Now let's see someone do that with kids.
| pigtailgirl wrote:
| recently discovered screaming kids & wild children are
| fantastic tools for practicing patience & tolerance -
| especially without any of my own -
| askonomm wrote:
| I have the opposite thing. I become more and more frustrated
| and intolerant towards kids and especially their parents for
| making the rest of us go through that. I get it that they
| wanted kids and were ready for the screaming and whining and
| moaning, but I didn't want that. And yet I have no option, I
| have to tolerate it, too.
|
| If I could pay for child-free transport, I would.
| rsyring wrote:
| Invest in a good pair of noise cancelling head phones?
| throw7 wrote:
| My dad told me I was one of _those_ type of cry babies. :)
| Now, I've been on those flights and I just laugh. A little
| perspective may help.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| >I get it that they wanted kids and were ready for the
| screaming and whining and moaning
|
| you should consider as various circumstances arise that
| maybe they wanted kids without disabilities that cause the
| screaming, whining, and moaning and while you have to
| tolerate it they might have to live with it for the rest of
| their lives.
|
| Maybe I'm just touchy though because I ran into someone
| with an attitude last week.
| fluoridation wrote:
| Huh? A kid doesn't need to be disabled to be loud and
| obnoxious. Hell, neither does an adult.
| pigtailgirl wrote:
| used to view it this way also - flipped the script -
| because - life is too short to raise the blood pressure
| over things: ultimately beyond ones control - easier on the
| psyche to lower the ego to zero in these situations - smile
| - think about this as part of the human experience - use it
| as a test of my will - empathy & compassion for my fellow
| humans - brings peace - even joy - for me anyways - :=)
| jghn wrote:
| In general you can get closer to this by paying more. For
| instance with air travel families with children don't often
| fly first class or stay at hotels at the upper tier of
| cost. But it's not perfect on most cases
| sokoloff wrote:
| You can. Planesense, NetJets, Delta Black, and many others
| would be happy to take your business.
|
| Far short of that, first class on trans-oceanic tend to be
| kid-free or well-behaved kids at least. Domestic flights,
| first-class is less pricey and therefore more prone to
| having kids in it.
| Zhenya wrote:
| What is delta black. I can't find anything after a
| cursory search.
| avalys wrote:
| I have heard horror stories of people collecting their pets after
| being transported in the cargo hold of a commercial airliner, and
| discovering that they've gone deaf, probably because they were
| left out on the ramp for too long near to a running jet engine by
| the some careless worker.
|
| I have a 50-pound dog and am just resigned to taking a road trip
| with him or leaving him with friends when I have to travel.
|
| I wish at least one commercial airline would adopt a "pet-
| friendly" policy and just allow people to purchase an extra seat
| for their dog. My dog would be happy to take the middle seat
| between me and my girlfriend, would stay out of the way of
| others, and I'd pay a significant amount of money if this were an
| option.
| 235235235 wrote:
| I'm not sitting next to a pit bull. Also, what if the dog
| simply refuses to stop barking the entire time? And where do
| they go to the bathroom?
| cmckn wrote:
| When I moved states, I had to fly with my rabbit. At the time,
| Alaska Airlines was the only carrier that would allow a rabbit
| in the cabin. I thought that was odd, considering a rabbit
| would indubitably make less of a commotion than a cat or dog.
| My rabbit was shaking the whole flight, poor thing; I can't
| imagine him being in the cargo area.
| bobro wrote:
| Seems like the variety of outcomes for allowing pets would make
| this prohibitive. Imagine the first time a dog bites another
| passenger or shits on a seat mid flight or starts
| uncontrollably barking.
| krthr wrote:
| In Colombia its possible to take your pet with you in the cabin
| (you must pay an extra fee). I thought it was the same in most
| of the world.
| antisthenes wrote:
| Most pets you can take in the cabin have a strict weight
| limit which excludes most dogs.
|
| Or at least most dogs worth having anyway.
| danhak wrote:
| Some people are allergic. Some people have phobias. Some people
| would simply prefer not to be near an animal that may drool,
| shed, bark or otherwise act unpredictably when stressed on a
| flight.
|
| None of that is unreasonable. I have nothing against dogs and
| dog owners but too many owners these days seem oblivious to the
| fact that many other people would prefer not to be forced to
| share space with animals.
| armchairhacker wrote:
| There's an easy solution to this: pet-friendly and pet-
| unfriendly airlines. The prices shouldn't be much different,
| because there are benefits to both being allowed to bring
| your pet and not being around pets, and in most cases the
| experience is nearly the same. If they are, the pet-friendly
| airline would be the more expensive one.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| And then everyone claims their animal is a service animal
| so they do not have to pay extra to go on the pet friendly
| airline per ADA, and we are back to square one.
| scott_w wrote:
| That's not how that works. You don't just "declare"
| they're a service animal and all is well. In fact, even
| real service animals often have issues in spite of the
| laws supposedly ensuring their access.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Per this website:
|
| https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-
| consumer...
|
| And this one:
|
| https://beta.ada.gov/topics/service-animals/
|
| It seems like there is nothing stopping someone from
| claiming their animal is a service animal.
| dwighttk wrote:
| >You don't just "declare" they're a service animal and
| all is well.
|
| https://www.cbsnews.com/news/united-airlines-changes-
| policy-...
|
| the peacock didn't get to fly, but before they changed
| their policy it was $125 for a pet or $0 for a comfort
| animal, and they hadn't been checking if the animal was
| vaccinated, obedient, or that there was any medical
| reason for the person to have the animal (so it seems
| like you could just declare your pet to be a comfort
| animal and save $125)
| rockemsockem wrote:
| No one is making their animal a service animal to save
| money. They're doing it to avoid putting their animal
| under the plane. The "saving money by making your dog an
| ESA or service animal" was just airline propaganda.
| remuskaos wrote:
| Surely, these people would still have the option not to book
| a flight with PetFriendlyAirways.
| wcarss wrote:
| They could offer just a few "pet flights", with different
| livery, and interiors for easier cleaning, and a premium on
| the tickets for the pet owner and pet seats -- then also a
| discount for the excess no-pet travelers who explicitly opt
| into filling out a pet flight.
|
| It might be a terrible idea, but I've both heard and had
| worse!
| slillibri wrote:
| I doubt there is enough demand for them to invest the
| hundreds of millions per aircraft to provide this service.
| In addition, each of the routes they would be able to
| provide would remove gates for other, more profitable
| flights. Another factor would be turnaround, i.e. cleaning
| and resetting a 'pet-friendly' flight would probably take
| longer then a regular flight, increasing the at-gate time
| and thus reducing the number of flights that could use that
| gate.
| silisili wrote:
| Same. I love dogs. I don't want to share an airplane with
| them, sorry.
|
| I once made the mistake of staying in a 'pet friendly'
| section of a hotel. The smell alone was enough to make me
| check for that next time.
| nagisa wrote:
| There are also many people who would prefer to not sit next
| to a human that may droll, vomit, start screaming or
| otherwise act unpredictably when stressed on a flight.
|
| None of that is unreasonable... is it? That's why I don't fly
| with my dog (in large part out of concern of their well-
| being), but maybe airlines should also consider not allowing
| toddlers on the plane if these things are the concern?
| boopmaster wrote:
| Oh, wow... was really not expecting "toddlers". Those
| descriptions of otherwise unpredictably acting humans is
| not restricted to merely the toddler aged humans.
| robbrown451 wrote:
| What if the back of the plane is pets ok and the front of the
| plane is for people who don't want to be near them?
|
| Where I live people bring the dogs into the grocery store
| (carrying them, putting them in the cart, or just walking on
| a leash.... and no, they aren't all service dogs) and I've
| never seen a problem.
|
| Personally I think you should be able to get a special collar
| or jacket for them that says they have passed a test that
| they are well enough trained for such things etc.
| sophacles wrote:
| > Personally I think you should be able to get a special
| collar or jacket for them that says they have passed a test
| that they are well enough trained for such things etc.
|
| I agree with your overall point - but I doubt this would be
| effective. Supposedly we already have such a system for
| service animals, but there's been enough shenanigans around
| that to make me cautious of this specific plan.
| ldiracdelta wrote:
| If you think a crying baby is a bummer on a flight, try a
| crying dog. Just happened to me on my last flight.
| powerset wrote:
| If we're being honest, many people would prefer not to be
| forced to share space with other humans, either
| majormajor wrote:
| Yeah, and it's easier for me to deal with that as a result:
| I can pay extra and get a first class ticket to get
| (depending on the plane) either some more space or A LOT
| more space to myself.
|
| Would be nice if airlines would make it just as easy to buy
| some more space for my pet. Pay more to buy the row out,
| pay more to get on a limited selection of "pet friendly"
| flights, probably other ideas could work too...
| dwighttk wrote:
| pet friendly flights seems like the best bet here... I
| was sort of assuming this was a pet friendly airline, not
| just a plane that you can put your pet on.
| jen20 wrote:
| > Some people would simply prefer not to sit next to an
| animal that may drool, shed, bark or otherwise act
| unpredictably when stressed on a flight.
|
| Can we at least apply this same standard to the other human
| passengers on a flight then?
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| I purchased an extra seat on Virgin from SFO to SAN 6 years
| ago.
|
| The rules may have changed since, but the flight attendants
| were loving on my pets...and the 1 hour or so flight time was
| hugely preferable to farting around on highways.
| elefantastisch wrote:
| Apparently the company ceased operations in 2011, though
| indicates they plan to return:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Airways
| rmatt2000 wrote:
| This sounds more luxurious than my last flight from ORD to RDU.
| nostromo wrote:
| Don't put your pets in the overhead bin. People have done this
| (without the flight attendants even noticing) to find that their
| pet has suffocated in-flight.
| robbrown451 wrote:
| You'd have to be spectacularly stupid to do that. The case I
| heard where that happened the flight attendant it there,
| without realizing there was a pet in the container. (the family
| told her, but somehow she didn't hear or understand)
| missedthecue wrote:
| Obviously a bad idea, but are the overhead bins airtight?
| dmpk2k wrote:
| I detest the dehumanization of airlines; it is all very
| bureaucratic now, compared to when I was a child.
|
| I flew two cats from oceania to Europe, and the process was
| jarring; some regulation at the time prevented them even flying
| together. I remember their panicked howls when I saw them again
| at the airport, something that hadn't happened with any other
| mode of transport.
| paxys wrote:
| The prices you were paying as a child are probably equivalent
| to first class travel today (or even more). If you pay for it
| you can still have that same luxury experience.
| adonovan wrote:
| > I detest the dehumanization of airlines; it is all very
| bureaucratic now, compared to when I was a child.
|
| Yup, but it's also a heck of a lot cheaper, largely due to
| mechanization, automation, homogenization, and
| bureaucratization.
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > I detest the dehumanization of airlines; it is all very
| bureaucratic now, compared to when I was a child.
|
| Not to mention the feeling that you're treated like cattle.
|
| And that many people taking care of luggage clearly hate their
| job and have absolutely zero respect for people's belongings
| and shall happily throw luggage instead of handling them with
| care.
|
| Screw flying. I drive (and, yup, it's a problem if crossing an
| ocean is required).
| retrac wrote:
| > happily throw luggage instead of handling them with care
|
| It's not that they don't care; they just care more about not
| getting fired for not moving quickly enough.
| whycombinetor wrote:
| LOL at the idea of [my pet flying separate from me, in the main
| cabin of a separate plane just for pets] being a superior option
| to [my pet being in my hands the entire time and handled
| literally only ever by myself, which is what happens when you
| take your pet in-cabin on a normal passenger airline like
| Southwest].
| sahila wrote:
| You do realize that you can only fly in-cabin with your pet if
| it fits underneath the seat ahead of you, usually < 20 lbs.
| Many pets don't fit this criteria, but otherwise I agree with
| you.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| or if you buy a seat for it...which i say having done so on
| Virgin.
| [deleted]
| sahila wrote:
| When's the last time you've flown doing this? I haven't
| gone on Virgin with my pet but Googling shows it doesn't
| allow pets in cabin (https://www.bringfido.com/travel/airli
| ne_policies/virgin_atl...).
|
| Southwest certainly your pet has to be in the small crate.
| There might be exceptions for service animals though.
| learndeeply wrote:
| Doesn't seem like you can. From Virgin's website:
|
| > We do not allow animals in the main cabin unless they are
| assistance animals.
|
| https://help.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/how-to-book-your-
| pet-o...
| izacus wrote:
| I've never dared to fly our pets, but do they really put them
| right between all the other luggage in the hold like depicted? No
| separate section? And leave them freezing?
| dwighttk wrote:
| It is not clear how this is different from a pet shipper (which
| I've only heard of from their website)
| latchkey wrote:
| I'm about to travel from Cali to NYC with my ~10 lbs dog. Got a
| soft-sided carrier off Amazon for pretty cheap in the required
| dimensions and plan to have him in the cabin with me.
|
| These are the rules for AlaskaAir (+$100 each way):
|
| For pets traveling in the cabin, hard-sided carriers must have
| maximum dimensions of 17" x 11" x 7.5" (43 cm x 28 cm x 19 cm)
| and soft-sided carriers must not exceed 17" x 11" x 9.5" (43 cm x
| 28 cm x 48 cm). They must be leak-proof, have adequate
| ventilation, and be lined with absorbent bedding. For pets
| traveling in the hold, carriers must not exceed the dimensions
| 30" x 27" x 40" (76 cm x 68 cm x 101 cm). Kennels must be solid,
| have handles, adequate air ventilation, and a sturdy roof. Pets
| must be provided with food and water bowls attached to the
| interior.
|
| https://www.alaskaair.com/content/travel-info/policies/pets-...
|
| He's a super chill dog that sleeps all the time anyway. Did a
| trial run of him in the carrier and he just fell asleep.
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(page generated 2022-04-28 23:00 UTC)