[HN Gopher] Amazon Q1/2022 [pdf]
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       Amazon Q1/2022 [pdf]
        
       Author : ckastner
       Score  : 56 points
       Date   : 2022-04-28 20:07 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (s2.q4cdn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (s2.q4cdn.com)
        
       | endisneigh wrote:
       | Feels like the tech bubble is bursting haha. Big co seems to be
       | relatively safe but so many others are down 50%+ YTD.
       | 
       | Robinhood, Wish, Peloton, Affirm, Opendoor, Roku, etc. etc.
        
         | gitfan86 wrote:
         | TDOC,COIN,RIVN. Yes this seems like a good thing. The multiples
         | are getting more realistic
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | Indeed it is. More like the _Big Tech Crash of 2022._
        
         | qgin wrote:
         | AMZN p/s is less than half of MCD
        
           | reducesuffering wrote:
           | P/S is almost never a comparable metric when margins like
           | Amazon retail can be like 5%. AMZN p/s is also 4x Walmart.
        
       | recuter wrote:
       | Bezos retired less than a year ago.
       | 
       | Circa 2017 he owned 20% of AMZN. Presently he owns 10%. Back in
       | 1997 he owed 42%.
       | 
       | https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2021/06/24/heres-...
        
         | xxpor wrote:
         | There might have been a major personal life event in there....
        
         | chollida1 wrote:
         | I see he owns 49,927,744 shares as of march 2nd for an
         | ownership of 9.82%.
        
       | arberx wrote:
       | They guided lower: key take away
        
       | ArtWomb wrote:
       | AWS Rev $18.44B, ~3-4x GCloud, wow. Just got invite to re:MARS AI
       | & Space conf, Jun 24 las vegas ;)
       | 
       | https://remars.amazonevents.com/
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | StratusBen wrote:
         | Not only is it that high it's growing 37% year-over-year!
         | Really insane to see a business this large growing that
         | quickly. Still very much the early days of cloud infrastructure
         | adoption.
        
       | Weryj wrote:
       | As a recently departed employee. This section was a complete
       | joke. "Investing in Employees and Our Workplace".
       | 
       | "These mental health benefits enhance existing benefits, which
       | include 24/7 access to free, one-on-one counseling sessions,
       | suicide prevention resources, and customized support." And by
       | that they mean those terrible app based counselling services.
       | 
       | The best thing they did do was a free Headspace subscription, but
       | they cancelled it after 2 months.
       | 
       | Edit: I just wanted to add one more thing, since I was working in
       | Canada my salary was half that of an American, but baselined
       | against the same people in Seattle. If I'm working at your high
       | American bar, I want your salary. Salt in the wound.
        
         | amazonthrow1231 wrote:
         | Amazon is a large company. Experiences are going to vary
         | widely.
         | 
         | I work maybe 2 hours a day. Oncall is pretty light when I do
         | have it. Fulfilling team and projects with great career
         | opportunities. I have no meetings Wed-Fri. I have under 3 years
         | of experience and my compensation this year after reviews went
         | from:
         | 
         | 164K base -> 218K base Total compensation: 220K for 2021
         | calendar year -> 305K for 2022 calendar year -> 378K for 2023
         | calendar year
         | 
         | I'm pretty happy as an employee personally though I realize not
         | everyone is.
         | 
         | Edit: Some commentators seem to be implying that I'm chasing
         | money and bringing down the culture of Amazon by not working
         | more - that seems ironic to me given Amazon has historically
         | been criticized for its sweatshop reputation.
         | 
         | To clarify, I work 2 hours a week because that's all I need to
         | work to deliver my projects on time and I was rated TT this
         | year - so why would I work more?
        
           | jerglingu wrote:
           | This is a sentiment and self indulgent bragpost straight out
           | of the Blind app. To others on the outside looking in: while
           | there are corners of Amazon where it's possible to coast, a
           | huge amount of people are grinded to pieces and operate at
           | such a level of anxiety that they feel it's necessary to
           | commit code and manage tickets during nights and weekends to
           | keep pace.
        
             | Kranar wrote:
             | I am happy to hear the other side of it. It feels like only
             | the people who have an axe to grind are allowed to vent on
             | HN about their anecdotal experiences, and it's considered
             | taboo to share successes.
        
               | ignoramous wrote:
               | Won't be surprised if it's satire.
        
           | weakfish wrote:
           | Yeah, I wonder how the warehouse employees are faring.
        
           | endisneigh wrote:
           | who does all of the actual work if you're only working 2
           | hours a day?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | foobarian wrote:
             | He/she is probably a 10x engineer which means they get 20
             | effective hours of work done per day.
        
             | mk89 wrote:
             | The parent commenter, probably :)
             | 
             | Jokes aside, ... it's not uncommon in (such) large
             | organizations to be in the lucky team and that's it. With
             | all these people leaving, managers know how much you
             | actually work, but it's a win win. If the guy works 2 hours
             | a day but he is not a troublemaker, keep him. Hiring
             | someone better has become harder.
        
           | reducesuffering wrote:
           | Yes, that's why we generally disregard anecdotes and look at
           | data:
           | 
           | https://www.teamblind.com/company/Amazon/reviews
           | 
           | Amazon has terrible morale overall, with a 2.7 / 5 Work Life
           | Balance rating while most comparable companies, Google,
           | Microsoft, Apple, Twitter, etc. are averaging like 4 / 5.
        
             | strombofulous wrote:
             | I would want to see evidence to show blind is more than
             | just a collection of anecdotes before calling it "data". In
             | my (anecdotal, lol) experience the people who post on blind
             | are a small subset that are way more likely to complain
             | about things, sometimes unreasonably.
        
               | reducesuffering wrote:
               | How is that "small subset" not normalized across all
               | companies, making an equal comparison? You can make a
               | reasonable case that Blind reviews across all companies
               | are worse than the average inside the companies, but it
               | wouldn't explain why some companies are so much worse
               | than others.
        
               | strombofulous wrote:
               | Why can you assume it's normalized across all companies?
        
               | reducesuffering wrote:
               | What feasible reason would cause you to believe two
               | companies' internal morale are the same, even though only
               | one of them has disproportionately negative reviews?
               | 
               | Feel free to only visit 2.5 star restaurants on Yelp
               | because clearly that must just be disgruntled people
               | disproportionately for no reason.
        
           | Weryj wrote:
           | Fair enough, the team I was on is falling apart and even
           | mentors are suggesting members transfer away.
           | 
           | I tried to bring up the structural issues of the team, but it
           | took someone from another team to set them straight. I had
           | already left by then.
        
           | jjulius wrote:
           | >I'm pretty lucky* as an employee personally though I realize
           | not everyone is.
           | 
           | FTFY.
        
           | lvl102 wrote:
           | Wow congrats on making $300K doing nothing!
           | 
           | I realized this is very much the culture in Amazon now.
           | Because they're the top paying tech company it attracts
           | people who work for money and nothing more. That creates...a
           | certain culture.
        
             | nawgz wrote:
             | People who pan individuals in a capitalist society for
             | taking high-paying jobs make no sense to me. You assume
             | people that like to have financial security have what
             | culture about them exactly? Pragmatism? Realism?
        
             | mataug wrote:
             | > Because they're the top paying tech company it attracts
             | people who work for money and nothing more. That
             | creates...a certain culture.
             | 
             | Are you suggesting that because the pay is high the culture
             | of Amazon is bad ?
             | 
             | Why is working for money a bad thing ? Everyone is selling
             | their time in exchange for money.
             | 
             | The primary reason for Amazon's bad culture is the
             | management, and their insistance on firing 6% of workers
             | each year[1]. This creates a culture where the people who
             | understand this system well will actively sabotage newbies
             | and naive devs to avoid getting canned.
             | 
             | A lucky few with good VPs and directors may have a good
             | experience overall, but at some point the Amazon culture
             | catches up to everyone, except the executives who don't
             | face the same pressures.
             | 
             | [1]https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-performance-
             | review-6-...
        
               | lvl102 wrote:
               | No that's not my point at all. If you're in that category
               | of engineers who basically chase money and work as little
               | as you can instead of chasing projects that align with
               | your passion, well, Amazon is probably where you will go.
               | Once you hit a critical mass of these people, it
               | completely sours the culture and it becomes an
               | irreversible black hole.
        
               | mataug wrote:
               | Life's much more complicated than the binary lens of
               | chasing money vs chasing projects.
               | 
               | People change over time, someone might have a family,
               | they might encounter a medical situation, they may have
               | student loan debt. There are millions of scenarios which
               | could cause a person to choose working for a pay bump.
               | 
               | My point is none of these reasons will sour the culture
               | as much as management putting employees through a zero
               | sum, hunger games like scenario.
               | 
               | At the end of the day all of this stems Bezos's belief
               | that employees are all inherently lazy, this trickles
               | down to all the executives.
               | 
               | https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-polices-based-
               | jeff-be...
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | amazonthrow1231 wrote:
               | It's entirely possible to chase both of those things. :)
        
               | lvl102 wrote:
               | And of course you can but usually the money just follows
               | along. And I've not met a single person in my life who
               | works two hours a day on his/her passion. None.
               | 
               | Edit: correction it was two hours per WEEK.
        
               | nawgz wrote:
               | Yeah, because most people spend 0 hours a day working on
               | their passion, instead exchanging hard time doing an
               | activity they hate for too little money.
               | 
               | Working 2 hours a day for a fat paycheck sounds like a
               | better way to enable yourself to spend time on your
               | passions than deluding yourself into the belief that the
               | capitalist entity extracting multiples of your TC as
               | value for itself is enabling you to "follow your passion"
               | while you work
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | > Because they're the top paying tech company it attracts
             | people who work for money and nothing more. That
             | creates...a certain culture.
             | 
             | Do you think this is less prevalent at lower labor prices?
        
             | currio wrote:
             | > Because they're the top paying tech company it attracts
             | people who work for money and nothing more
             | 
             | Thats most (big) tech companies
        
               | lvl102 wrote:
               | Amazon is going to rot from the inside by the MBAs they
               | hired to run the company instead of engineers.
        
               | jjtheblunt wrote:
               | having worked there for shy of a year (not in AWS, by
               | random placement), i think your verb tense is true but
               | misses the fact it long has been rotting.
               | 
               | but they exact a huge "tax" on items sold on the site, so
               | they can survive incompetence for quite some time.
        
           | pinkmuffinere wrote:
           | Wow, can you say what team/area you're in? Legitimately would
           | love to transfer over if i have the right skills -- I'm a sys
           | dev engineer at Amazon, but am working long hours, getting
           | burned out, and paid way less.
        
             | deskamess wrote:
             | Not the poster but no way am I outing my self. This is a
             | sacred team you do not talk about.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | It's like a company hanging suicide nets outside their
         | buildings and patting themselves on the back for caring about
         | employees.
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | Foxconn?
        
         | rdtsc wrote:
         | It's bad enough that they felt the need to insert a mental
         | health line item in the filing. To them it seems "we're so
         | nice, let's boast about it" kind of a thing. To me it reads
         | like a warning: "you'll need that mental health help if you
         | work here".
        
         | bamboozled wrote:
         | It's amazing how many people I know avoid using Amazon because
         | of how employees are treated, if it didn't treat people so
         | badly it would be much more popular. Maybe abusing workers is
         | how it became so successful at the scale it is ?
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | There was a "leak" of internal HR documents etc about a year
           | ago saying just that. It's on HN somewhere, but how to search
           | for it I do not know.
        
         | axg11 wrote:
         | Adding a counterpoint here. I work at Amazon and am very happy.
         | It's a big company. Team matters. Feel free to AMA if you are
         | considering joining.
        
       | chollida1 wrote:
       | Numbers:
       | 
       | - Q1 Operating Income 3.7B est 5.42B, wow, that's a big miss
       | 
       | - Q1 Net Sales 116.4B vs Est of 116.43,
       | 
       | - AWS Net $18.4B EST 18.2B
       | 
       | - subscription sales
       | 
       | - operating margin 3.2% vs 4.7Est, that's another big miss
       | 
       | - loss of 7.56/share vs a profit of 15.79/share a year ago, again
       | highlights the danger of a very low margin business model that
       | makes it up on volume, when all your inputs go up in price.
       | 
       | - their first quarterly loss in 7 years.
       | 
       | - international business was down a fair bit, both in profits and
       | sales, This is something to watch as US sales are probably not a
       | growth area anymore and bulls were watching this areas
       | specifically for growth. Not only fail to grow here but to show a
       | loss is concerning.
       | 
       | - their trailing 12M P/E was 124 and their forward 12M P/E is 55,
       | so everyone expects far less growth in the future
       | 
       | Notes:
       | 
       | - looks like its the sales forcast that algos seem to hate
       | 
       | - reporting a loss for Q1 and projecting another loss for Q2,
       | given that we're long gone from the run at a loss to grow days of
       | Amazon, this is something to watch. Maybe people are finally
       | starting to buy local again?
       | 
       | - starting to bring down other ecommerce companies which helps
       | support the people buying in person thesis some analysts have
       | been pushing
       | 
       | - From Bloomberg, Worldwide shipping costs jumped 14% to $19.6
       | billion. Meanwhile, revenue from online store sales dropped 3%
       | and revenue from third-party sellers services increased 9%.
       | Inflation is exposing the dangers of Amazon's low-margin
       | e-commerce model that has conditioned customers to expect low
       | prices and quick delivery.
       | 
       | - price of a prime membership is going up, probably a good idea,
       | i know people who have given up netflix, I know no one who has
       | given up a prime membership. Far more value with prime than
       | netflix.
       | 
       | - retention of employee's could be interesting to watch as a
       | stock that could very likely be worth less in a years time than
       | it is now would be a big paycut for alot of devs.
       | 
       | - shares down 10% at one point. Option implied movement is 7.6%
       | so this is an oversized move.
       | 
       | - Rivian really boosted amazon last year adding 11.8B to their
       | bottom line but the stock forced amazon to take a 7.6B loss on
       | Rivian this quarter, so I guess this isn't something to be
       | concerned with as this was never real anyway.
       | 
       | - interestingly, the CFO just said they have too many people at
       | teh company, though he didn't clarify if it was warehouse or
       | developers, I'm guessing its mostly the former and any developer
       | head count downsizing will come from employees who leave due to a
       | share price that is coming down
        
         | sheepybloke wrote:
         | I think the bigger thing is that there is more bad products on
         | Amazon now. I've found myself going to Target or other more
         | specific stores (e.g. Rei for camping supplies, etc) for goods
         | because a lot of the stuff I see on Amazon isn't what I want to
         | buy. For example, I was looking for an adapter for my Macbook
         | and all the adapters were basically just chinese rebrands of
         | the same adapter. I finally gave up and got a Belkin one from
         | Best Buy because I couldn't find a comparable thing on Amazon.
         | I think this is happening a lot and really hurting them in that
         | sector.
        
           | tempnow987 wrote:
           | I also went to REI recently, same reason. My wife likes
           | target. Both BTW do pickup which gives you a bit of the
           | online convenience in my book (target is a big store to grind
           | through otherwise).
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | I assume Amazon is trying to jettison retail since it is a
           | sub 5% profit margin business. A lot of work for not much
           | gain.
           | 
           | They would rather be in the AWS/logistics
           | platform/music/video business.
        
         | tempnow987 wrote:
         | Wow, I had no idea rivian was 172/share / $150B (!!) market
         | cap. That's 3x Ford's market cap. Of course now they are in
         | $30/share range.
        
         | jjulius wrote:
         | >Interestingly, the CFO just said they have too many people at
         | the company, though he didn't clarify if it was warehouse or
         | developers...
         | 
         | I found one!
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31197990
        
         | booboofixer wrote:
         | > Maybe people are finally starting to buy local again?
         | 
         | I'm sorry i dont know how to read these reports, but do they
         | have numbers for usage of amazon prime? My guess would be
         | people aren't buying local or online, they just aren't buying a
         | lot of things anymore because of inflation.
        
       | greatpostman wrote:
       | Amazon gave everyone big base raises, pretty clear they knew the
       | stock was going down. This company is going to fall on hard
       | times, a lot of current employees have not been treated well
        
         | iLoveOncall wrote:
         | Employees have not been treated well for a very long time and
         | the stock performed just fine then.
        
           | greatpostman wrote:
           | They got away with it precisely because the stock was booming
        
       | Barrera wrote:
       | From CNBC:
       | 
       | > Growth rates are at their slowest since the dot-com bust in
       | 2001.
       | 
       | > The company recorded a $7.6 billion loss on its investment in
       | electric vehicle maker Rivian.
       | 
       | > Earnings: $7.38 per share, adjusted, vs. $8.36 expected,
       | according to Refinitiv
       | 
       | https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/28/amazon-amzn-q1-2022-earnings...
       | 
       | This is a terrible report for a company of the size and in the
       | leading retail position that Amazon is. Amazon has never been a
       | company where price to earnings ratios mattered much, but a 12%
       | miss is not small potatoes. It bodes very poorly for earnings
       | reports from second-tier consumer products companies and
       | distributors.
        
         | deskamess wrote:
         | Not good for shareholders but AMZN has always reinvested in
         | itself at the expense of everyone else. It is the Amazon way.
        
       | xchaotic wrote:
       | No longer focused on growth it seems.
        
         | McLaren_Ferrari wrote:
         | How can you grow when you sell 500B dollars of products per
         | year?
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | expand to the next planet?
        
       | Jayakumark wrote:
       | Kind of expected on EPS as Rivian took the hit compared to Last
       | quarter.
        
         | qgin wrote:
         | Not super rational for market rates act surprised at RIVN
         | contribution since the RIVN stock price is available to anyone
         | who cares every second of every day. No reason to drop it after
         | hours today for that.
        
           | mediaman wrote:
           | I think the market is (hopefully) reacting to margins on
           | their core retail business, and top-line guidance. RIVN has
           | added lots of noise to earnings.
        
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       (page generated 2022-04-28 23:00 UTC)