[HN Gopher] Formula E Gen3: The world's most efficient race car ___________________________________________________________________ Formula E Gen3: The world's most efficient race car Author : RickJWagner Score : 58 points Date : 2022-04-29 11:53 UTC (1 days ago) (HTM) web link (www.engadget.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.engadget.com) | epolanski wrote: | > line with Formula E's achievement as the first net-zero sport | | I don't understand how can they claim such things, what is the | definition for "net-zero". | | Doesn't matter how optimized, say, the production of a car is, | say it produces 10 metric tons of CO2, how are they gonna offset | it? And all the rubber, travelling, batteries, etc? | PavleMiha wrote: | Carbon offsets are super complicated, potentially shady, and I | don't fully understand them, but the gist of it is that they | pay money to companies to either not produce carbon that they | otherwise would have, or use the money to install and operate | equipment in factories and powerplants that captures carbon | before it goes out into the world. You can also do things that | pull carbon out of regular air but I think the first two | options are so much more efficient that they dominate the | market. It seems like the system could be gamed, but as far as | I know it broadly works. | basisword wrote: | >> Carbon offsets are super complicated, potentially shady, | and I don't fully understand them | | How can you judge them while openly admitting you don't | understand them? | peyton wrote: | There are clear perverse incentives and well-documented | abuses. | V__ wrote: | > These unavoidable emissions from the past six seasons have | now been certified as offset through investment in Gold | Standard and Verified Carbon Standard UN projects in-line with | the UNFCCC's Clean Development Mechanism. | | > From biogas energy generation in China to landfill gas energy | generation in Mexico and wind power energy generation in | Morocco, the offsetting projects Formula E has partnered with | are carefully selected based on their social or ecological | benefits, and on their location, all of which are situated in | regions that we've raced in, from Season 1 to-date. | | [1] https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2020/september/three- | ste... | Tempest1981 wrote: | Details here: | | - | https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/discover/sustainability/net-z... | | - https://f.fiaformulae.com/r/sustainability/FE- | Sustainability... | | Not clear which emissions are being offset. Although, relative | to ICE racing, the bar is low. | robotmlg wrote: | most emission from ICE racing (at least in the high level | series where they do a lot of traveling) is from the planes | and ships that transport the team members and equipment, and | I imagine that's the same for Formula E | Goz3rr wrote: | > Although, relative to ICE racing, the bar is low. | | You do realize the actual ICE emissions dwarf in comparison | to the whole picture right? If you take Formula 1 for | example, they run 20 cars that will each burn through about | 200-300kg of fossil fuel per race weekend. Even so, the | actual emissions from the cars only accounts for 0.7% of the | total CO2 emissions of a whole season of F1. Almost half the | emissions are just from transporting equipment from race to | race (via air, sea and land). About a quarter is transporting | the personnel. Almost all of these still apply to Formula E. | jonathankoren wrote: | Formula E is pretty interesting. All the races are on YouTube. | It's enjoyable, and the races have some interesting gimmicks that | electric cars can give you. | | First, the race is n minutes + 2 laps instead of a set distance. | Functionally, it's not really any different from a regular | distance race, since you have to be on the lead lap to win. The | other gimmick is that video game speed boosts are a thing. You | can drive through areas to have your motor run at a higher output | for a limited time. | | I do like the aesthetics for the new cars, and the battery | technology has improved from the earliest version where the | drivers had to change cars in the middle of the race because the | batteries were too weak. | altarius wrote: | I'm always curious about carbon fiber recycling. | | It is my understanding that as long as you're using an epoxy | matrix the best you can do is "down cycle", i.e. you shred your | part, literally burn off the resin and reuse the scraps with new | binder into e.g. airplane trays. | | It sounds like maybe switching to a thermoplastic ("remeltable") | matrix might be better but it will probably take decade(s) to | research how to optimally produce and use those new parts. | turbinerneiter wrote: | BMW worked on that for the i3, but I couldn't find any good | source about what came of it and if they used it for the i3. | moffkalast wrote: | They must've allocated all the funding from the body design | team, the i3 has some serious Fiat Multipla vibes. | olivermarks wrote: | BEVs are great for hill climb (Pikes Peak record held by | incredible VW BEV https://youtu.be/2K2paIN20mU) and for low end | drag racing (NEDRA in the US | http://www.nedra.com/record_holders.html), but for circuit racing | they are years away from being able to run more than a few laps | at a time with sub formula III performance. | | I'd be interested to see more hybrid racing, which would help | with hybrid street R&D, but the BEV world is imo currently | limited to sprint performance, not multiple lap competitive | racing | inb4_cancelled wrote: | Why did they go fully open-wheel when aiming for higher | efficiency? I always thought that the wheels produce some brutal | drag. | aquajet wrote: | It's also a revered part of "the formula", mainly for | aesthetics. I'm guessing they want the cars to look more like | the other formula series. | moffkalast wrote: | Yeah, add wheel covers and you basically have the LeMans | prototypes instead. | metadat wrote: | To keep them cool, because grip is everything and you don't | want them too hot or cold. Sweet spot is key. | gameswithgo wrote: | riidom wrote: | It's phrased a bit unclear in the article, but the 250kW front | engine is actually for recuperation only. | rco8786 wrote: | > Formula 1 cars average speeds between 220 and 230MPH during a | Grand Prix, | | This must be a typo. Maybe kph? 220mph is maybe like a | theoretical max speed, but certainly not an average over a race. | kissiel wrote: | 220mph is typical speed on longer straights, so I guess It | should have been "F1 cars on average have a top speed between | 220 and 230mph. | benoliver999 wrote: | Monaco is gonna be _wild_ this year | ohgodplsno wrote: | If you don't go for a gap that exists and don't yeet yourself | to death at maximum speed on short track circuits, you cannot | call yourself a racer | ot wrote: | Yes they likely meant "typical top speeds". | | According to Wikipedia, all "Highest average" speed records | (for race, lap, and qualifying) happened in Monza, and they're | all around 250km/h, or 155mph. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_race_recor... | smallerfish wrote: | > Gen3 won't rely solely on batteries for power. Around 40 | percent of the energy cars will use during an E-Prix will be | produced by regenerative braking. | | Definitely bad writing. Where do they think the energy that got | the car up to speed originally (which is then partially recouped | via regenerative braking) came from? | lostdog wrote: | > Inside, an electric motor can deliver 350kW of power (470BHP) | to reach top speeds of 200MPH (320 km/h). For reference, Formula | 1 cars average speeds between 220 and 230MPH during a Grand Prix. | | There's either some typos here, or just bad writing. | | The speed record for Formula 1 looks to be 231.4 mph, so the E | top speed looks to be pretty close. That's cool! I wonder if | we'll see the top races turn into electric at some point. | napoleon_thepig wrote: | The problem with this comparison is that F1 cars have a lot | more downforce (and therefore drag) than FE cars, which means | that F1 cars have a relatively low top speed. | | Add to this the fact that race distance is a lot shorter in FE | and that they race in street circuits where time with full | throttle is low and brake regen is high and suddenly Formula e | is not very impressive. | Scene_Cast2 wrote: | My take is that what makes a sport exciting for spectators is | different from what makes a sport exciting for the | participants, which is also different from an exciting sports | spec sheet. | napoleon_thepig wrote: | I agree and I think that FE is a well designed | entertainment product, considering the technology and | budget limitations they have. | kissiel wrote: | As with all engineering there's a tradeoffs dance. The F1 one | cars pull insane G's in the bends, and all that downforce | requires a lot of power. I'd like to know what kind of g-forces | those FE cars reach. I think the best way to compare the | overall performance is to compare the average speed on the same | track. | jw14 wrote: | I think Formula E is kind of useless. Racing competitions can | be a good engine for innovation, but last I heard Formula E | has all cars using a standard battery. Isn't the battery the | biggest thing we want to improve on EVs? | | They hold the races in cities instead of "real" race tracks, | which I guess is cool if that's your home town but as a | (lukewarm) racing fan I would rather see tracks I know. I | wonder if they also want to avoid comparisons with ICE race | cars. The Gen 2 Formula E did 0-60 in 2.8s... which is | achievable in some ICE street cars. Hopefully the Gen 3 is | more impressive. | jwcooper wrote: | I'm not really sure Formula E is big enough yet to put a | lot of resources into battery tech like Formula 1 can | engine tech. | | I believe the biggest reason they are in cities now is that | the battery capacity/tech just isn't there yet for | something like Spa or COTA for the distance and speeds | required for an interesting race. City courses allow for a | design that offers a lot of regenerative braking. | | Another reason to host them in cities is that cities are | great for fans. Lots of hotels, restaurants, people buy | tickets, etc. Cities are likely more open to Formula E due | to the quieter cars and lower pollution too. | | So, not useless, just maybe not interesting to you. | oleganza wrote: | For publicity reasons F1 and Indycar/CART virtually never | race on the same tracks. Otherwise people would point | fingers and say that US series are slower overall, or top | speeds in F1 are not as jaw-dropping as in US. | | I'd bet FE has similar arrangement - no one wants obvious | comparison with an obvious loser by some metric. | JshWright wrote: | Formula E holds exclusive rights to single seat, open wheel | electric car racing for quite a while (a couple decades). | lukasb wrote: | How? | JshWright wrote: | By signing a contract with the FIA, the international | organizing body for motor racing. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-04-30 23:00 UTC)