[HN Gopher] Why do you waste so much time on the internet?
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       Why do you waste so much time on the internet?
        
       Author : memorable
       Score  : 746 points
       Date   : 2022-05-06 15:00 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (zan.bearblog.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (zan.bearblog.dev)
        
       | pythonb3sss wrote:
       | I wouldn't say I'm addicted to them, but when I find myself
       | bored, I open a meme site (which shall remain unnamed) and just
       | look at mildly popular memes. Doesn't matter what they're about.
       | I just like the occasional laugh I get out of them. I also like
       | social topics being turned into dark, twisted humor which is
       | sometimes captured perfectly in memes.
       | 
       | But when I was going through a rough patch of my life
       | (depression, suicidal tendencies), I would doom scroll said
       | website every free second I could. I just didn't have anything in
       | my life that gave me joy, apart from dark, twisted memes. I'm
       | doing much better now and even though I am an extreme introvert
       | with social anxiety, I find that I have replaced my time that I
       | would spend on that site with time I spend with my colleagues. I
       | still don't have friends, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
       | 
       | Why did I waste so much time on the Internet? If I hadn't, I
       | wouldn't be here. It gave me that much needed laughter every once
       | in a while that kept me from going over the edge and I would just
       | keep scrolling, looking for one more laugh that will make my day
       | a bit more bearable.
       | 
       | Just my experience though. IMO, generally speaking, people are
       | spending more and more time on the internet because the products,
       | or rather the content factories, have become so good at capturing
       | and keeping our attention on them, that in comparison the real
       | world seems bleek and bland.
       | 
       | EDIT: Fixed some grammar. English not native language
        
         | s5300 wrote:
         | > Why did I waste so much time on the Internet? If I hadn't, I
         | wouldn't be here. It gave me that much needed laughter every
         | once in a while that kept me from going over the edge and I
         | would just keep scrolling, looking for one more laugh that will
         | make my day a bit more bearable.
         | 
         | Battling long term physical illness here that is an absolute
         | fucking slog. Can very much relate to this sentiment.
        
         | davesque wrote:
         | Well said. Internet is a very good coping mechanism.
        
       | darioush wrote:
       | Usually this happens when I am bored or blocked at work or I am
       | in a meeting where there is nothing for me to say or do 90% of
       | the time.
       | 
       | Slack creates a culture that is built around response time but
       | often topics on slack are low urgency and of little long term
       | value. Heavy use of slack requires people to be around
       | synchronously and inevitably people will be blocked on others.
       | This is inefficient.
       | 
       | Daily stand-ups are a similar routine that provides not much
       | value in terms of unblocking people.
       | 
       | I greatly look forward to tech companies who prefer written
       | documentation (eg, Notion) over Slack.
        
         | satsuma wrote:
         | > I greatly look forward to tech companies who prefer written
         | documentation (eg, Notion) over Slack.
         | 
         | this is (at least how i'm reading it) a similar issue i've seen
         | in hobby spaces that have moved from forums to platforms like
         | discord for support. discord is great for right now
         | collaboration but the archival process is like pulling teeth.
         | it leads to repeated questions being asked because threads
         | aren't often used and one problem's solution is mishmashed in
         | with ten other conversations.
         | 
         | sometimes there are links to a wiki in the discord, which is
         | nice. but it's still only sometimes, and if you have a problem
         | that hasn't come up yet, you're stuck navigating discord.
        
       | minroot wrote:
       | For having zero people to spend time with
        
       | paulcole wrote:
       | Got nothing better to do. Don't care about being "productive."
       | Get through the other things I want to do - exercise, eating
       | healthy, watching TV, reading, and then internet is left.
       | 
       | It's not wasting time, it's how I choose to spend my time.
        
       | spir wrote:
       | I am addicted to twitter and reddit. Especially reddit. It often
       | takes the place of reading, hobbies, quiet moments, improving my
       | home, talking with my spouse, and playing with my baby.
       | 
       | When reddit records a click or an upvote, it thinks it has been a
       | Good Product, and created Engagement. Reddit then takes those
       | feedback loops and tunes the algorithm and feedback loops to
       | create further engagement.
       | 
       | But in reality, there's almost no positive relationship between
       | my engagement with social media and my personal human
       | flourishing. I think these products are mostly poison for my
       | soul.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | I would encourage you to not think of this in an addiction
         | framework. Instead think of this as a self medicating
         | framework.
         | 
         | Why are you choosing reddit over spending time your baby? Do
         | you fear handling the baby? Does handling the baby make you
         | feel uncomfortable thoughts or feelings?
         | 
         | Is there something, like ego, that reddit gives you?
         | 
         | This is a good problem for self journaling, working with
         | someone, or whatever your preferred form of self introspection
         | is.
        
           | blacksmithgu wrote:
           | Chronic media consumption is not always based on avoidance.
           | It is very easy to open social media during genuine downtime
           | "for 5 minutes" only for an hour to pass before you know it.
           | That is just bad self control due to dopamine addiction.
        
         | bogwog wrote:
         | I had a similar addiction to reddit a couple of years ago,
         | especially while I was in college. It just became something I
         | did as part of my routine. In hindsight I don't know why, since
         | I rarely had a good time on there. It felt like everyone was an
         | asshole, the content was all repeats of the same shitty jokes
         | and fake stories from people desperately trying to farm
         | internet points. It all felt pathetic, and I knew it at the
         | time, but something kept bringing me back.
         | 
         | So one day I decided to just delete my account, and that was
         | it. As soon as the account disappeared, so did my interest in
         | the site. It was like a switch flipped in my head. I guess it
         | was the internet points that were tickling the addiction part
         | of my brain?
         | 
         | Next time I find myself wasting too much time on a social
         | network, I'm just going to delete the account and move on.
         | Unfortunately, I don't think HN lets you delete your account,
         | so I'll need to get creative if I decide to drop this site too
         | (maybe do something to get myself banned?)
        
           | Crabber wrote:
           | >In hindsight I don't know why, since I rarely had a good
           | time on there.
           | 
           | Someone told me once that addiction is built more strongly
           | with _negative_ experiences and it blew my mind. I think it
           | 's probably true.
           | 
           | Addiction isn't built by you getting a reward, it's built by
           | you desperately chasing a reward you never quite reach. We
           | call a book a "page turner" not because it's a satisfying
           | book, but because every chapter ends in some bullshit cliff
           | hanger. Same applies to TV shows.
           | 
           | I would suggest that maybe you weren't addicted to reddit
           | because it was actually giving you what you wanted, but
           | because you were chasing some satisfaction that you never
           | quite got. Satisfied users leave a site happy after 5 minutes
           | and get on with life. People who have spent 2 hours opening
           | 200 threads and still haven't got the happy feeling they came
           | there for stay around to open "just one more thread" another
           | 50 times.
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | > But in reality, there's almost no positive relationship
         | between my engagement with social media and my personal human
         | flourishing. I think these products are mostly poison for my
         | soul.
         | 
         | This is why "engagement" is something only corporate f---splats
         | say under normal circumstances. Either they secretly know it's
         | a form of psychological enslavement or they're oblivious to the
         | problems inherent in trying to measure it.
        
         | tayo42 wrote:
         | my problem with reddit (and here i guess?) is idk what else to
         | do with like 5-30minutes of down time. I dont really have my
         | life optimized for constant activity and idk what else to fill
         | that with now.
        
         | psyc wrote:
         | I'm the same, and I've been struggling with it for a couple of
         | years. I've even addressed it in therapy, and it hasn't helped.
         | The only thing that has helped at all is a site blocker.
         | 
         | Twitter and HN _mostly_ fill me with frustration, loathing, and
         | angst. Like the cigarettes I smoke fill me with tar and
         | carcinogens. Reddit at least I occasionally find something
         | interesting, due to carefully curated subs.
         | 
         | It's just addiction, nothing more.
        
           | darkerside wrote:
           | Unfollow everybody on Twitter.
           | 
           | Why does HN bother you like that?
        
             | chrsig wrote:
             | There are a lot of incredibly frustrating, problematic, and
             | exasperating opinions and personality types to be found on
             | HN. The particular members of any of those sets will differ
             | based on the eyes of the beholder.
             | 
             | There's no shortage of passive aggression, angst,
             | oneupsmanship,virtue signaling, dogwhistling, etc. It just
             | so happens that there's a sufficient about of incredibly
             | useful opinions and comments from subject matter experts
             | that make it worth consuming in spite of the fact that it's
             | a forum on the internet, and all of the baggage that
             | entails.
             | 
             | (side note: this isn't intended as a dig on HN moderation -
             | you probably all do a better job than most other venues.
             | kudos.)
        
               | darkerside wrote:
               | I find HN with its moderation to be night and day
               | difference from many other forums.
        
           | jansan wrote:
           | Site blocking helps. For about two weeks. I do not even
           | remember why I removed twitter again from my router's
           | blacklist.
        
           | IntFee588 wrote:
           | For me, reddit is the one that gets me angry. It's addicting,
           | but also seems like teenagers and bots arguing with it each
           | other. Instagram is increasingly inundated with ads, but at
           | least I get to see thirst traps and cute animals.
           | 
           | Youtube is the only social media site that I think is a net
           | positive on my life, because I learn so much, but I've
           | started going for runs again because I really need time away
           | from a screen and the constant dopamine hits.
        
         | rvbissell wrote:
         | I almost never regret time spent reading a book. But I
         | frequently regret time spent on Reddit/Youtube/Twitter, even if
         | I enjoyed the content at the time.
        
           | wrycoder wrote:
           | I'm more likely these days (as the decades pile up) to
           | deliberately stop reading a book, if it hasn't engaged me by
           | the time I've read 20% of it. Of course, many never get
           | started, once I do a quick scan.
           | 
           | I estimated how many more books I would likely read before I
           | die, and it's a shockingly small number, even though I read a
           | lot! So - choose wisely.
        
         | codq wrote:
         | I am absolutely caught in a loop between refreshing reddit,
         | hopping to twitter, hopping to Instagram, and then back to
         | reddit -- a cycle that takes just long enough for all three
         | platforms to re-popluate with more content.
         | 
         | It's not healthy, and I feel bad about it.
         | 
         | They have got me exactly where they want me.
         | 
         | And like you, it's very clear that this is not conducive to
         | human flourishing. Unfortunately, I've been caught in this, and
         | similar loops for so long that I have a hard time knowing what
         | flourishing even looks like anymore.
         | 
         | EDIT: One thing that did help me, for a time, was finding a
         | REALLY good book, one that completely sucked me in--in this
         | case it was David Mitchell's latest, 'Utopia Avenue'. It's been
         | a long time since I found a really fantastic book, when you do,
         | there's nothing better.
         | 
         | And I realized that the next morning, when you wake up after a
         | long evening of reading a good book, you remember it. You
         | remember it as being a great use of time, something you can be
         | proud of.
         | 
         | An evening spent scrolling through social media is _never_
         | memorable. It 's never something you're proud of, something you
         | want to tell people about.
         | 
         | A good night with a good book is a good use of time.
         | 
         | I need to remember this more often, myself.
        
         | nvusuvu wrote:
         | As a married husband (almost 20 yrs) and father of five kids,
         | allow me to share some wisdom. Spouse time is vital to a
         | healthy, strong, vibrant, lasting relationship. Reddit doesn't
         | care about you like your spouse does. And kids grow up way too
         | fast. Treasure every moment.
        
           | v-erne wrote:
           | >> Spouse time is vital to a healthy, strong, vibrant,
           | lasting relationship
           | 
           | Hear! Hear! This cannot be overstated.
           | 
           | >> And kids grow up way too fast. Treasure every moment.
           | 
           | And this on the other hand ... works only if You somehow like
           | children (and who does not like small psychopats with
           | dictatorial aspirations). For the others (I believe most of
           | people who lives in my housing estate can be counted) I
           | observe that the moments they really treasure are those when
           | their children are is safe distance from them taking care of
           | themselves.
        
           | b555 wrote:
           | could not agree more with this. social media exists out
           | there, but spouse and kids are right in front of you each and
           | every day. when done correctly, seeing the growth of your
           | family and spending time with them can be extremely
           | rewarding, even more than the dopamine produced by
           | interacting with the social media
        
         | pde3 wrote:
         | A possible experiment to try: what happens when you only browse
         | Reddit through an anonymous, not-logged-in browser and IP
         | address? And then only use your account when you are actually
         | sure you want to post something?
        
           | recursive wrote:
           | For me, it's enough just to log out. The friction of logging
           | in is just the right amount of friction.
        
           | tayo42 wrote:
           | I do this,I find my self scrolling a lot still. Though its
           | helped avoid alot of the stupid back and forths I used to let
           | me self get into.
        
         | bvinc wrote:
         | Everyone else replying to you is trying to convince you with
         | arguments that reddit isn't a good use of your time. As you
         | already know, this won't work. You're already convinced.
         | 
         | The only thing that works is a site blocker. It actually works.
         | Convince yourself that the block is permanent. Delete the app.
         | This of course won't completely stop you, because you could
         | always unblock yourself. But it'll stop you from mindlessly
         | pulling up reddit.
        
           | swayvil wrote:
           | everybody likes to put their reddit down.
           | 
           | but we are just good friends.
           | 
           | reddit man.
        
       | operon wrote:
       | I am compulsively curious.
        
       | bricemo wrote:
       | The simple answer is machine learning algorithms. AI are very
       | effective at this, it is the same thing at YouTube, Instagram,
       | Tiktok. They will optimize to get you to want to come back
        
       | whycombinetor wrote:
       | I read another techno-dystopian rambling within the last 24 hours
       | that this text strongly reminds me of. It even has spelling
       | mistakes too (stratergy).
       | 
       | "i swear its always the days where i cannot help but fall asleep
       | during the day, which always starts as a nap that is supossed to
       | take no more than 20 minutes but ultimately takes more than 2
       | hours, where i learn something great about myself and feel giddy
       | and silly the rest of the day or utterly destroyed by my own
       | previous obliviousness.... i gott lucky today i took a nap today
       | and feel extremely silly, goofy, and content, the euphoric high
       | of a drained and noided individual..(corny i know but whatever) i
       | swear all the computer generated music and single-wavelength
       | light i see looks and sounds a bit better today.... i think the
       | zuck has infiltrated my brain but i kinda like being online idk
       | about yall... i think i have reached the zenith of what consumer
       | culture and the mall aesthetic inspires in people... i feel as if
       | i have traveled back to the extremely-early 2000s and also
       | simultaneously 50 years in the future..." From the description of
       | this youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCSMaKWzz8Q
        
       | davesque wrote:
       | I love how this very rough but very honest and relatable
       | expression of despair over the loss of self control has won out
       | over all the other tech news right now. That says a lot.
        
       | neriymus wrote:
       | I have the EXACT same problem. Constantly refreshing and
       | refreshing insta, reddit, hackernews, etc etc. Shameless plug, I
       | built this to try to curb my addiction ->
       | https://github.com/neriymus/Fetcher, maybe it'll help someone
       | else.
        
       | albertTJames wrote:
       | Because I have absolutely nothing else than work in my life.
       | Staying connected constantly is the only way I excape the dread
       | of the abyss.
        
       | andi999 wrote:
       | It just makes you feel slightly better. Same reason why the TV
       | was on 15 years ago. Or the radio 40 years ago.
        
       | mescaline wrote:
       | Ads, mostly. If you work on ads, or support ads, fuck you.
        
       | sys_64738 wrote:
       | It's when you have an power cut for a number of hours do you
       | realize what a waste of time it is. When you have no electric
       | then there's many other things to think about.
        
       | willchis wrote:
       | I downloaded Duolingo and now every time my finger itches for
       | reddit/instagram/YT at quiet point, I force myself to do a few
       | exercises on Duo instead. I'm not going to master a language like
       | this, but it feels a bit more worthwhile.
        
         | juanani wrote:
        
       | kshacker wrote:
       | Why do we?
       | 
       | I am currently in a 25+ people weekly sync up that is completely
       | meandering. I can't do anything productive since it is hard to
       | focus but I can read hacker news or Reddit because it does not
       | strain the mind that much.
       | 
       | Do this 9 times a week, and pretty soon it is a habit.
        
       | galgot wrote:
       | I think there is a kind of zapping effect with that. The internet
       | is a constantly changing thing with informations constantly
       | added, and our brain is rewarded with a bit of dopamine each time
       | we find a new interesting stuff for us (even very small, and can
       | be completely unconscious) . Not that we will keep our attention
       | to the new found stuff very long, it's just the fact of finding
       | something new that becomes an unconscious reward, thus this
       | endless zapping.
        
       | johnvega wrote:
       | Attention hijacking becomes micro-habbits that become a rourtine.
       | After just a few days, it becomes very difficult to undo, even if
       | being aware of what's going on. This is what I understood from
       | Tristan Harris several years ago and it's still happening today.
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | We are sensory creatures. The brain used to have to move the body
       | along to see new things, but now it has realized that it is far
       | more efficient (calorie-wise) to sit and bring sensations to the
       | eyes (mind's eye as well).
       | 
       | If you weren't reading/viewing with your eyes/ears, what are you
       | missing?
       | 
       | Taste, but you can eat while viewing.
       | 
       | Touch, this is missing, but the negative survival/health feedback
       | loop is slow, so we ignore the loss of touch i nour lives.
       | 
       | Smell, this is missing, but we can smell our food.
       | 
       | Basically it is inevitable that the future of humanity will spend
       | more and more time stationary while enjoying the internet.
        
       | gerash wrote:
       | The Tiktok, Instagram feed or YT feed (or even HN feed or any
       | other news feed) feel like snack food. They taste more delicious
       | than other food but at the same time we aren't evolved to consume
       | them in huge amounts so too much consumption is harmful.
       | 
       | So we always need ways to constrain the amount of snack food and
       | snack media we consume
        
       | lazyjones wrote:
       | Because you don't have important goals and the discipline to
       | focus on them.
       | 
       | If the Internet didn't exist, it would be TV or something...
        
       | antipaul wrote:
       | I have started hiding my personal laptop behind a drawer. Phone
       | too
        
       | oldinternet wrote:
       | The internet is where we learn, create, express, communicate, and
       | be. The internet is the most interconnected part of our world.
        
       | micromacrofoot wrote:
       | Because large companies have built the most popular places on the
       | internet to intentionally be addictive (but call it engagement
       | instead).
       | 
       | Their massive wealth relies on converting engagement into ad
       | spend.
        
       | thenerdhead wrote:
       | Addiction. I've been addicted to the internet since a teen. I
       | have worked to moderate my time on it for the last 5 years and
       | have changed my life significantly.
       | 
       | Technology is beautiful, but there's more to life than sitting in
       | front of a screen doing exactly what the author mentions.
       | 
       | I'm writing a book right now that is talking about this challenge
       | and the various things I had learned to find balance.
        
       | FoolishOne wrote:
       | Because it sucks my brain away from the real world to the virtual
       | world!
        
       | chrsig wrote:
       | The author's post aligns with a lot of ADHD narrative. If the
       | author is reading, consider getting evaluated.
       | 
       | That said, why do we spend so much time not being productive?
       | Because we're not obligated to be productive 24/7. It's ok that
       | you're browsing youtube instead of being productive!
       | 
       | You're demanding too much from yourself -- not because you can't
       | live up to it, but because the expectations are too damn high.
        
       | mrkramer wrote:
       | I spend many hours on the internet because it is endless source
       | of information plus I listen music when I'm doing research. I can
       | also say I'm not enjoying it 10/10 but I'm addicted to
       | information and I'm in pursuit of knowledge.
        
       | qiskit wrote:
       | Why not? What should we waste our time on instead?
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | RSS was better. You could mark feed items as read and save time.
       | Feeds that do not implement mark as read are an waste of time.
        
       | davesque wrote:
       | I think we'd all be spending more time doing things that are
       | "worthwhile" if we felt like they were worth the while. As it
       | stands, I think the vacuousness of modern day life is hiding in
       | plain view. Why put more effort in at work if it just amounts to
       | a lifetime of toil for only the chance at a few years of rest far
       | outside of your prime? Why bother learning something when you
       | have the keen sense that a thousand other people are already
       | working on it who are more talented and resourced than you? Long
       | story short, we live in a world now that doesn't much value
       | people but rather strives to capitalize on the value that people
       | represent. Corporations and institutions have been given
       | relatively free reign to kick people below the belt of their
       | attention and to try and squeeze another ounce of effort, however
       | misdirected, out of them. It's all a numbers game.
        
       | dcatx wrote:
       | The folks building the internet are very, very good at exploiting
       | our weak points to keep us scrolling.
       | 
       | I've recently gotten way more aggressive about managing my screen
       | time because I realized I had become incapable of just sitting in
       | silence and peacefully focusing on a single task -- even while
       | working I was constantly using my phone to open Reddit or Twitter
       | or Discord, for reasons that I couldn't explain. My brain needed
       | constant dopamine hits to function and spending more than a few
       | minutes on any particular task was extremely difficult.
       | 
       | I've had a lot of success recently by leaving my phone in another
       | room and replacing as much of my non-work screen time as possible
       | with slow, screen-less activity -- writing in a notebook, reading
       | real books, walking through the neighborhood (with my phone left
       | at home), gardening, cooking. Basic stuff, but all things that
       | had gradually disappeared from my life as my smart phone and
       | laptop took over every part of my brain.
       | 
       | The first few weeks of this were pretty tough, I was constantly
       | looking to where my phone normally would have been and I had to
       | relearn how to just focus on one thing at a time. Now that I'm in
       | the groove my brain feels dramatically more clear and calm and
       | the urge to grab my phone every 30 seconds has mostly faded away.
       | I'm getting more comfortable feeling "bored" again. As a bonus,
       | I've regained my ability to read novels -- I've read more fiction
       | this year than I did in the last 10 years combined.
        
       | ggregoire wrote:
       | Broader questions for the author:
       | 
       | - Is entertainment a waste of time?
       | 
       | - What's "too much" when we talking about entertainment
       | consumption? Where is the limit?
       | 
       | - Do you consider YouTube/Instagram a form of entertainment? If
       | not, why not?
        
       | inafewwords wrote:
        
       | 1024core wrote:
       | My habit of scrolling through my FB feed endlessly went away
       | after I unsubscribed from every "friend"'s feed. I had random
       | people in there, people I had met just once, or people I had
       | dated just once, or even one-night stands and FWBs.
       | 
       | One day I scrolled through the feed and for every item in the
       | list, I clicked "unfollow". Soon, my feed was practically empty,
       | except for the feeds of a couple of cooking pages I follow, and
       | friends who rarely post.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | juanani wrote:
        
       | ahallock wrote:
       | The why is easy. I mean, you basically have infinite
       | entertainment and information at your fingertips. And it's all
       | tailored to your interests. This is unprecedented. I don't think
       | anything comes remotely close in human history.
        
       | coolhoody wrote:
       | My excuses:
       | 
       | 1. No free will.
       | 
       | 2. Bad parenting.
       | 
       | 3. Witches.
        
       | lowbloodsugar wrote:
       | Right now it's because I don't want to go and do the thing that
       | makes me sad to even think about. Sometimes it's because I am
       | frustrated with the thing I'm supposed to be doing. Well, now I
       | will go make food and tell myself I will do the sad thing
       | afterwards.
        
       | fabk wrote:
       | There is something in the animal brain that enjoys _variable
       | reinforcement_ more than other kinds of behavioral reinforcement.
       | 
       | I am not an expert, but if something gives you a reward
       | _partially randomly_ -- e.g., the one cool (or otherwise
       | captivating) post on Facebook that sometimes comes out of the 200
       | you scrolled through -- this kind of reinforcement produces the
       | behaviors most resistant to extinction.
       | 
       | See "Effects of different types of simple schedules" on
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement.
        
       | chefandy wrote:
       | This sounds like a major depressive episode. A very experienced
       | psychologist recently told me that even folks with no hint of
       | mental health trouble started having a hard time with motivation
       | and mood in the pandemic, but many with existing tendencies
       | towards depressive states were plunged straight into oblivion.
       | Talk therapy and medication can be a big help, but CBT exercises
       | can also help if you're against using medication and can't
       | imagine going into a deep dive about your feelings with a
       | therapist. Even if it's not depression, this poster should talk
       | to a psychologist. They're not able to right the ship themselves
       | which doesn't bode well for it improving on its own. Finding a
       | therapist sucks but telemedicine is more accessible than ever at
       | this point.
       | 
       | As an aside-- folks love dismissing mental health concerns by
       | saying things like "everybody has a hard time getting motivated."
       | That completely ignores the scope of the problem-- it's no
       | different from telling someone their motorcycle accident is no
       | big deal because kids fall off their bikes all the time. There's
       | a boatload of peer reviewed research out there that discusses the
       | debilitating effects of depression. Go read it if you're
       | skeptical-- I'm not your research assistant.
        
         | motoboi wrote:
         | For those who didn't get the memo:
         | 
         | Be warned, folks! Depression is not about sadness, but about
         | not being able to do things.
         | 
         | If you are feeling incapable of doing things, like physically
         | siting in front of the computer and not being able to do any
         | work, you are probably depressed.
         | 
         | Sometimes you'll sit in front of the computer, try to start
         | some task but somehow end opening hackeer news, digg, youtube.
         | 
         | Seek help as soon as possible, do not wait until you are fired.
        
           | 331c8c71 wrote:
           | > Sometimes you'll sit in front of the computer, try to start
           | some task but somehow end opening hackeer news, digg,
           | youtube.
           | 
           | I have to strongly disagree.
           | 
           | If that kind of behavior gets out of control it sounds like
           | typical adhd. One still wants to do stuff but unable to get
           | oneself into actually doing it.
           | 
           | Depression IMO is when one starts losing motivation and
           | ability to derive pleasure from activities that were normally
           | pleasant.
        
             | hypefi wrote:
             | What about "Depression" is a sign that something deep down
             | is shifting or needs changing. After introspection, my loss
             | of motivation is a lot of the times me knowing that I want
             | to work on problems that I dare worthwhile for the future
             | of humanity and earth like climate change, environmental
             | work, planting trees and social work..., and being obliged
             | to not work in that triggers the lack of motivation unless
             | obliged by survival. I am very skeptical of medication to
             | solve these kind of issues.
             | 
             | 'Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct
             | your life and you will call it fate.'
        
               | 331c8c71 wrote:
               | I think that the issue of deriving meaning from one's
               | work (and life) is as old as humanity.
               | 
               | It looks to me also that there's a bit of idealization
               | going on on your side. In any case you'll work with other
               | people and I bet you won't feel too good if you'll be
               | doing env. work with total assholes. So I would also look
               | at that angle -- being among people you like/appreciate
               | and who reciprocate also kind of eases that existential
               | thing (IMO).
               | 
               | Now I am working in the field and organization which
               | definitely are worthwhile / good cause (imo). But it
               | comes at a price, I wouldn't mind to work in a less
               | meaningful place (subjectively) for a few years with a
               | significantly higher comp.
               | 
               | Also good cause is a motivator but the not the most
               | immediate one. Used to work in a slightly dysfunctional
               | company but my responsibilities were (mostly) so well
               | defined and managed day-to-day that just getting stuff
               | done was satisfying.
        
             | chefandy wrote:
             | It's not that cut and dried. Comorbidity of ADHD and
             | serious depression or anxiety is something like 80%.
             | Depression also affects your ability to focus. Either way,
             | you should get help if it's negatively impacting your life
             | in ways serious enough that you've made concerted efforts
             | to stop. That's especially true if you haven't been able to
             | improve it yourself.
        
       | statquontrarian wrote:
       | I'm taking intermittent internet & phone fasts.
        
         | leodriesch wrote:
         | Could you expand on that?
         | 
         | Does it mean you don't use your phone till 10AM or not after
         | 9PM or something like that?
        
           | statquontrarian wrote:
           | I'm still experimenting; so far, it includes:
           | 
           | 1. Turning off my phone at night. This removes the risk of
           | looking at my phone in the middle of the night after going to
           | the bathroom.
           | 
           | 2. Consciously waiting to turn on my phone until I'm ready,
           | which usually means after breakfast. I want to lead my phone,
           | not the other way around.
           | 
           | 3. Intermittent fasts of addictive computer behavior; in
           | particular, I found I was checking news sites and HN
           | addictively throughout the day, so I take some days off from
           | that, completely.
        
       | praptak wrote:
       | "Procrastination Monkey" series from waitbutwhy is the best
       | treatise on this that I know.
        
       | MilnerRoute wrote:
       | A big part of the problem: brain plasticity. (Which, ironically,
       | I read about on the internet....)
       | 
       | But the idea is if you're doing a lot of one thing, your brain
       | adapts. So if that one thing is "quickly scrolling headlines" or
       | "consuming bursts of updates," over time your brain just atunes
       | itself to that form of stimulation.
       | 
       | If that's true, who knows how far it will lead? I was on jury
       | duty, and spoke to the prosecuting attorney afterwards. And his
       | complaint was that over the years, "juries have gotten dumber" --
       | that he'd consistently seen the attention span of a typical juror
       | getting shorter and shorter....
        
         | danenania wrote:
         | The positive side of plasticity is that your brain can also re-
         | adapt fairly quickly to a lower (healthier) level of
         | stimulation if you can get over the initial hump.
         | 
         | My understanding is that most of this is regulated by dopamine,
         | and your dopamine system needs time to reset in order to adapt
         | to new patterns. In the meantime, it's normal to feel bored or
         | lacking in motivation; that's part of the reset process and you
         | just need to wait it out.
         | 
         | Personally, I've found it's easiest to change habits and
         | patterns via some sort of healthy distraction that takes my
         | mind off whatever I'm trying to change. Travel, getting into a
         | new hobby/project, or starting a really good book are all great
         | for this.
         | 
         | Andrew Huberman goes into this stuff in depth in his podcast,
         | especially this episode:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmOF0crdyRU
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | pigtailgirl wrote:
       | it's cheap - i could go for a walk - go to the gym - call my
       | mother - clean the house - na - clicking the same 3 buttons in a
       | different order on youtube - hoping for something new and
       | amazing-- is "cheaper" - it's easy - & very occasionally - I win
       | something amazing-
       | 
       | think this has always been true tho - mum used to buy the sunday
       | times then read the same pages multiple times throughout the week
       | - not sure she thought she would get something new out of them
       | each time - it was just something cheap to do -
        
         | stnmtn wrote:
         | > clicking the same 3 buttons in a different order on youtube -
         | hoping for something new and amazing-- is "cheaper" - it's easy
         | - & very occasionally - I win something amazing-
         | 
         | You just made me realize that these algorithmic feeds are quite
         | literally a skinner box because you're exactly right.. once in
         | a blue moon there is a recommendation, a video, or a tweet,
         | that really is amazing and can change your perspective or give
         | you huge amounts of enjoyment
         | 
         | So we click on, waiting for that next payout of gold.
        
           | pigtailgirl wrote:
           | and if that is indeed true - do we control the algorithm - or
           | does the algorithm control us? :=)
        
         | davesque wrote:
         | Feels kinda pathetic to lay it out like this, but the one thing
         | I wish I could do is call my mom. But she's gone.
        
           | shrimp_emoji wrote:
           | That's the last thing I wanna do, and she's alive (and calls
           | me). D:
        
       | burntoutfire wrote:
       | ... what else there is to do? The days are 14 hours long
       | (assuming healthy 10 hours of sleep), but I have energy for maybe
       | 4-8 hours of activity on average. Rest of the time needs to be
       | filled with some form of "time wasting".
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | It's an addiction. The internet works like loot boxes -- the
       | randomness with which you find something that gives you a quick
       | dopamine kick keeps you scrolling/refreshing and keeps you coming
       | back.
        
       | XCSme wrote:
       | > Why do you waste so much time on the internet?
       | 
       | Because our brain doesn't like to get bored. We need to
       | constantly do things. Also, the brain doesn't really like to
       | start doing the right thing because that feels too much like
       | work, even though once we start being productive we do feel good
       | and enjoy it.
        
       | jbjbjbjb wrote:
       | Unless you're at work, on vacation or meant to be spending time
       | with others at dinner or some social event it's ok to waste time
       | on the internet.
       | 
       | You were not going to do something useful anyway. Before the
       | internet people watched too much tv, played video games, read the
       | newspaper, watched the news on repeat, read crappy books, ate
       | crap, drank, smoked. We need downtime stop the self-flagellation.
        
       | tester756 wrote:
       | Partly?
       | 
       | because I feel like I should learn stuff, get better at computers
       | and then translate it to bigger total compensation - I'm young,
       | later I will have less desire to put effort into that or other
       | things like kids and stuff
       | 
       | but very often it ends on HN/9gag or similar :D
        
       | carlgreene wrote:
       | For me it's a busy brain with any information it wants to consume
       | at my finger tips. This is something I'm working incredibly hard
       | to combat, but my brain is constantly going a million miles a
       | minute with the most meaningless and out of my control crap. The
       | way I can "close" the thought is by looking stuff up on the
       | internet related to that thought, or just distracting myself with
       | some garbage.
       | 
       | A calm mind to me at this point is one of the most valuable
       | things. I seldomly experience it, but thankfully it's been
       | happening more often lately now that I'm conscious about it.
        
       | peter_retief wrote:
       | You need more coffee.
        
       | mikewarot wrote:
       | Recovering from eye surgery. Nothing else I can do.
        
       | twobitshifter wrote:
       | Has anyone tried?:
       | 
       | * Using an apple cellular watch and leaving your phone at home
       | 
       | * Using a smaller phone like an iphone mini
       | 
       | * Using a lower tech feature phone
       | 
       | * Using screentime
       | 
       | And found success that way?
        
         | dbalatero wrote:
         | Yes, I use an Apple Watch for maps/subway directions and a flip
         | phone for my phone. Works well, best of both worlds. Apple
         | Watch is hard to waste time on due to the cramped UI.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | Do you also have an iPhone that you just leave at home?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | My previous phone died on me suddenly and at that time I didn't
         | have spare cash for another one, so I got an old Nokia 3600
         | classic from a friend and spent 9 months using it while I was
         | working my way to get my finances in check.
         | 
         | The moment I bought a new phone all the old habits came back,
         | so I guess the answer is "nope".
        
         | windowsrookie wrote:
         | I tried an Apple Watch. It had a couple of issues that
         | prevented it from working for me. When it's on LTE the battery
         | only lasted me about 5-6 hours. It's just not designed to be
         | used away from an iPhone for more than a couple hours. So you
         | have to carry an Apple Watch charger with you, and it can only
         | charge if you take it off your wrist. Also while iMessages
         | would come thru, text messages would not reliably get sent to
         | the watch while it was on LTE only. Another issue is you can't
         | send/receive messages from social media apps like
         | instagram/snapchat. 80% of my communications with friends is
         | through Snapchat. Maybe there's a Facebook messenger or
         | telegram app for the watch but I don't use those apps. Also,
         | there's no way (that I know of) to stream music to your car
         | radio from the watch, streaming music over LTE to your
         | headphones drops the battery life to 2-3 hours.
         | 
         | I then tried the light phone 2. https://www.thelightphone.com
         | 
         | Similar to the Watch it has short battery life. Maybe ~8 hours
         | with sending some texts and listening to an hour long podcast
         | or music. It uses Micro-USB so you have to carry one of those
         | around because everything is USB-C now. It can receive texts
         | but no images. So anytime someone sends you a picture in a text
         | you have to ask them what it is. Again no way to send messages
         | in social media apps. Also there is no way to stream music from
         | any streaming service.
         | 
         | I then tried an iPhone SE. It can do everything you need, but
         | not very well. It's screen was often too small, and too dim
         | outside. Compared to high end phones the camera sucks, and
         | again it has bad battery life. I eventually came to the
         | conclusion that if I'm going to carry a full smartphone It may
         | as well be a good one.
         | 
         | So after all that I'm back on an iPhone 13 Pro Max. Not using a
         | smartphone for a few months did seem to "reset" my brain tho. I
         | don't really use any Apps on the iPhone aside from safari,
         | camera, YouTube music, and Snapchat for messaging. Having a
         | good camera on you at all times is really hard to give up.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | stevecalifornia wrote:
       | Install a scheduled host blocker and block all your time wasters
       | until the hours of 10PM until midnight.
       | 
       | Don't be afraid to admit that the moment you feel a touch of
       | boredom you reflexively type 'reddit'. Tools like 'Freedom.to'
       | block these time sinks and you don't even realize how frequently
       | you visit these sites until you get the block notification.
       | 
       | After a week or two your cured.
        
       | laurex wrote:
       | I think an underappreciated aspect of this phenomenon is
       | loneliness.
       | 
       | Many of the things that suck us in (including HN) have this
       | aspect of being with other people, though they don't actually
       | lead to us feeling actually known or cared about in the same way
       | as our bodies/minds evolved for.
       | 
       | Thus, it's very easy to feel an ambient loneliness, go online
       | where there are other people saying things, sharing things,
       | sending us emails (even if they are not actually "to us" like
       | newsletters) and getting sucked in, then feeling like "where did
       | that time go" because it was not really an investment in any of
       | those top-of-pyramid needs, but instead 'empty calories' of
       | socializing.
        
       | kabdib wrote:
       | A week ago I deleted my Twitter account. Today I'm deleting my
       | Reddit account. I'm keeping Facebook simply to stay in touch with
       | family and a few friends, otherwise it would _definitely_ go. I
       | 'm on the fence about HN, but it will probably go as well.
       | 
       | These online communities are a net negative in my life, and I'm
       | done.
        
         | b555 wrote:
         | when folks talk about going cold turkey like this, I have a
         | question for them - do you think they were a net negative or
         | our capability to moderate our use of these social media was
         | not controllable?
        
       | sarsway wrote:
       | Because we humans have a lot of idle time.
       | 
       | We feel like we're wasting it, and we feel we should instead
       | spend time archiving goals, to better ourselves, to do something
       | more meaningful. But that is not how life works. You are just
       | unnecessarily burden yourself with guilt. Thinking you should be
       | doing something else. There are so many things to learn about, so
       | many things to experience, right? We fear on missing out on life,
       | chasing something, but what exactly we don't really know.
       | 
       | But maybe you just don't need to? Most of us are exactly fine
       | with where we are. Of course you should always strive to improve,
       | but truth is "killing time" is a big part of life. Especially for
       | top of the food chain animals like humans. Watch some livestreams
       | of lions on youtube, what do they do? 99% of the time they just
       | sit under a tree doing absolutely nothing, and I bet they don't
       | feel guilty about it. People used to walk labyrinths for hours
       | and hours, just to kill time.
       | 
       | This whole notion that you need to make the most out of every
       | moment, live life to the fullest, see all the places, chase the
       | uncomfortable! - I don't think it's necessarily the best advice,
       | the happiest people I've met tend to have very simple boring
       | routines.
        
         | frankus wrote:
         | I think most people would like if they could be productive 24/7
         | (or more realistically, consistently productive during their
         | waking hours), but I think there is some amount of "waking
         | rest" that humans need, or at least that modern human existence
         | makes it hard to avoid.
         | 
         | This same post could have been written 30 years ago, but it
         | would be about mindlessly switching channels on the TV,
         | watching vapid sitcoms interrupted by a handful of commercials
         | you've seen dozens of times.
         | 
         | Maybe before that people would read the local fish-wrap
         | newspaper or same stupid book they've read dozens of times.
        
         | pugets wrote:
         | Maybe that's true, but it doesn't provide me with any comfort.
         | I'm only going to live once. When I'm old and bound to a chair
         | (hopefully due to frailty and not because a psychiatrist
         | strapped me to it), I want to feel like I achieved something
         | more than a passive human existence.
         | 
         | All these hours spent consuming forgettable garbage on Reddit,
         | YouTube, Facebook, and in video games... these are hours not
         | spent learning recipes, making music, writing programs, lifting
         | weights, or practicing Spanish. If I could channel my energy
         | towards these things, then the long-term payoff would be much
         | more enriching. Not only that, but I'd probably be a happier
         | person if I was disconnected from whatever daily drama social
         | media wants me to care about.
         | 
         | If I spend the next 10 years of my life the way I spent the
         | last 10, I'll approach my midlife with no discernible talents,
         | ambitions, or meaningful lived experiences.
        
           | Daishiman wrote:
           | > All these hours spent consuming forgettable garbage on
           | Reddit, YouTube, Facebook, and in video games... these are
           | hours not spent learning recipes, making music, writing
           | programs, lifting weights, or practicing Spanish. If I could
           | channel my energy towards these things, then the long-term
           | payoff would be much more enriching. Not only that, but I'd
           | probably be a happier person if I was disconnected from
           | whatever daily drama social media wants me to care about.
           | 
           | I do all those things and I still waste a ton of time on
           | Youtube.
           | 
           | And it's fine; your brain cannot dedicate all of its waking
           | time to high-intensity intellectual endavours, you just end
           | up burning out.
           | 
           | I worked full-time and studied for a few years. Remarkably, I
           | still had a share of free time, but I couldn't do anything
           | "productive" with it as I had no mental energy to do perform
           | these tasks. You _have_ to just hang out and do nothing.
           | 
           | The most productive people I know waste a ton of time outside
           | of their chosen specialty, and it's not a coincidence.
        
         | minroot wrote:
         | > People used to walk labyrinths for hours and hours, just to
         | kill time.
         | 
         | I walk and ride bicycle just to kill time to this days
        
         | Sujeto wrote:
         | I agree with this. Not to mention that being idle still
         | involves complex thought processes, like treating traumas and
         | understanding concepts.
        
         | 331c8c71 wrote:
         | Excellent points and a fresh perspective.
         | 
         | We should be happy we have a few hours to "waste". Enjoy it
         | instead of punishing yourself pointlessly.
         | 
         | If you wish to force yourself into a habit of doing something
         | else instead -- take steps but also question the intent.
        
         | Crabber wrote:
         | >Watch some livestreams of lions on youtube, what do they do?
         | 99% of the time they just sit under a tree doing absolutely
         | nothing, and I bet they don't feel guilty about it
         | 
         | Lions are at peace with the world. They sit around with clear
         | minds, watching nature go by. They are content with the world
         | and their place within it.
         | 
         | This is absolutely not the same as a human who spends 4 hours a
         | day doomscrolling through twitter and reddit and can't help
         | checking their phone every 5 minutes.
        
           | soared wrote:
           | The point is that lions are chasing down prey 100% of the
           | time, and so humans also don't need to be actively doing
           | something 100% of the time either. Doomscrolling isn't a
           | great example, but is comparable to the leisure of lions.
        
             | Crabber wrote:
             | The point I was trying to make is that even within
             | "unproductive time" there are extremely healthy, and
             | extremely unhealthy ways to spend it.
             | 
             | Someone introduced me to the idea of "mental diet" a while
             | ago. I find it to be an interesting concept. We know not to
             | spend hours of our time eating junk food because it's not
             | good for our physical health, why do we never consider our
             | mental health in a similar way?
             | 
             | Doomscrolling is just filling your brain up with mental
             | junk. Most content on the modern internet is just mental
             | junk honestly. And spending hours reading and getting
             | invested in all of this crap really does affect your
             | headspace for the rest of the day.
             | 
             | Lions, by comparison, have a very pure and healthy mental
             | diet.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | > Lions are at peace with the world. They sit around with
           | clear minds, watching nature go by. They are content with the
           | world and their place within it.
           | 
           | Maybe for an adult lion at the peak of its powers. An elderly
           | lion will end his days alone, cast out from the pack,
           | surviving on its fading wits until....
        
       | goy wrote:
       | And here we are, wasting time to write for the n-th time 'if feel
       | the same". Someone even write it's refreshing ...
        
       | senjin wrote:
       | I know exactly why I do it and it feels impossible to stop. I
       | scroll endlessly to avoid the pain of everything else in life.
       | Doing work, doing chores, doing hobbies, talking to anyone,
       | making decisions even about projects I'm excited to work on, it
       | all causes a small hit of emotional pain. I don't really know
       | where this pain comes from either. Maybe some childhood trauma
       | that I can't even remember? I don't know.
       | 
       | The 2nd part that cements this into what feels like an
       | unbreakable habit is that I feel like I'm constantly learning.
       | It's partly true, I'm constantly learning about things that have
       | even benefited me and my team at work, but in general it's low
       | quality garbage I'm learning about or just the surface of a
       | good/useful topic.
       | 
       | Like the author I have recognized this and done research on it
       | and have no idea how to fix it. I remember finding the word
       | akrasia [1] years ago that has stuck with me since but no help
       | actually getting past it.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akrasia
        
         | drpotato wrote:
         | Mate, if you haven't already, go talk with a therapist. I've
         | struggled with avoidance my entire adult life - avoiding
         | awkwardness, pain, risk, "bad"emotions, difficult
         | conversations, conflict - and talking with a professional has
         | really helped me.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | Much like making new friends past university, therapists are
           | a crapshoot. Some simply aren't a good fit or have poor sofa-
           | side manner or fail to develop a sense of trust.
           | 
           | If the therapy is part of an employer funded benefit, you
           | also only get a limited number of sessions, and only with the
           | employer-approved provider.
        
         | qiskit wrote:
         | > I know exactly why I do it and it feels impossible to stop.
         | 
         | The mind commands the body and it obeys. The mind commands
         | itself and meets resistance.
        
         | jordanpg wrote:
         | I believe the sociologists of the future are going to look back
         | at this era and cite the manifest lack of meaning in human life
         | as the ennui that is the subject of this thread.
         | 
         | For a long time, religion filled this void, but for almost
         | everyone, it no longer does. I don't even think most people who
         | hold themselves out as religious _really_ find any significant
         | meaning there -- not doubting their sincerity, only the
         | compatibility of those beliefs with modern secular realities.
         | 
         | It is simply true that it is a simple matter to learn enough
         | about what we know about the universe to know, somewhere in the
         | back of your mind, consciously or unconsciously, that none of
         | this means anything. And the rest follows. It is garden-variety
         | Camus' Sisyphus.
         | 
         | I believe this results in a void in our primate brains that is
         | inadequately filled by anything yet available. We are in a
         | transitory period where we are looking for true secular meaning
         | to replace what we evolved with.
        
           | benlivengood wrote:
           | To put a fine point on it, the problem is not that life is
           | meaningless but that it has significant meaning and value and
           | also death exists. Death is the antithesis of most human
           | values and we're so far powerless to deflect it on a long-
           | term basis, while religion gave hope or belief of
           | circumventing or ameliorating death.
           | 
           | I scoff at all of the "accept it as part of the natural
           | order" rationalizations; death is the enemy and my goal is to
           | push it as far toward the heat death as possible. That final
           | end will be a defeat, but much less of a tragedy than the
           | ~120 years we get now. If meaning and memory can exist for
           | 10^100 years instead then that's a prize worth fighting for.
           | 
           | I think all the proof anyone needs of this is the joy of
           | children; death is unlikely and far from them and so they
           | have nearly boundless ability to enjoy life and its meaning.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | > For a long time, religion filled this void, but for almost
           | everyone, it no longer does.
           | 
           | Did religion actually fill this void? Or did enough people
           | simply go through life not voicing any of their troubles for
           | fear of exclusion or even institutionalization in a religious
           | and highly superstitious society that didn't understand
           | mental health?
           | 
           | Religion didn't prevent alcoholism, out of wedlock
           | pregnancies or domestic violence. It did however force
           | families to take brutal measures to keep their missteps a
           | secret from the rest of society.
        
             | JackFr wrote:
             | No. I think you misunderstand.
             | 
             | When you tell people there is nothing transcendent, that
             | life is indeed meaningless - sometimes they believe you.
        
         | JackFr wrote:
         | From a philosophical perspective that Wikipedia article covers
         | a lot. I truly want to do A, but I do B instead. How is that
         | possible?
         | 
         | The Wikipedia article offers a couple of classical and modern
         | takes on the problem but I'd offer one more. That we
         | misunderstand our own intentions. When I say "I'd like learn to
         | speak Italian" that's not what I mean at all. What I mean is
         | "I'd like to be able to speak Italian." and I haven't even
         | considered the work involved.
        
       | 411111111111111 wrote:
       | Because I don't have a life.
        
       | djsamseng wrote:
       | Find something better.
       | 
       | Don't quit social media. Don't restrict yourself by setting rules
       | you'll break a few days later. Why? Because it doesn't work.
       | 
       | Life can be and will be about what you are passionate about.
       | 
       | So sure go ahead and enjoy wasting time on the internet. But
       | after 15-30 minutes when it's no longer enjoyable but rather you
       | are seeking that enjoyment you first had, get up and try
       | something new. It might be awful (so one and done), but it also
       | might be amazing. It might just become the activity you wake up
       | excited to do every day that social media/web scrolling doesn't
       | even compare to.
        
       | aantix wrote:
       | I wonder if this is because we're lonely..? Just wondering out
       | loud here.
       | 
       | E.g. Twitter - feels like many of the "thought leaders" I follow,
       | their "friends" are also on Twitter. And they tweet/respond so
       | much I often wonder if they're really ever "building a business".
       | And are they ever interacting with their real-world friends or
       | family?
       | 
       | Or if their lives just consist of a constant refresh of their
       | feed. Even at dinner, I wonder if they're even present?
       | 
       | And I wonder if that's why podcasts have become so popular - it's
       | someone talking to you. Someone having a conversation, albeit
       | one-sided, but usually it's pretty interesting.
       | 
       | For the same lonely reasons, I wonder if this is why public radio
       | has been so popular with long haul truck drivers. Everyone wants
       | to hear a human voice once in a while.
       | 
       | The constant reading, listening and entertaining videos... The
       | voice in your head generates a discussion, with itself. At least
       | it's something.
       | 
       | We work from home. It's quiet. With no one around. We're looking
       | for a preoccupation.
       | 
       | We're just desperate for any type of human interaction.
       | 
       | "Likes", hearts, thumbs-up, upvotes, +1, PR merge, etc. - are we
       | just clinging to anything that acknowledges our existence and
       | humanity.
        
         | pchristensen wrote:
         | I miss working with you, Jim!
        
           | aantix wrote:
           | You're the best Peter! :)
        
         | tayo42 wrote:
         | I think pod casts just replaced radio. I don't think that's as
         | interesting of a phenomenon as youre suggesting.
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | i don't know why everything old feels like it had more flesh,
           | even with the limitation and flaws (conflict of interests
           | etc)
        
         | reggieband wrote:
         | People often say they will keep old TV shows like Friends, How
         | I Met Your Mother or The Office on in the background. I think
         | it simulates the feeling of having familiar social connections
         | in ones life.
         | 
         | In Fahrenheit 451, the protagonist's wife Mildred "finds
         | herself more involved in the "parlor wall" entertainment in the
         | living room - large televisions filling the walls" [1]. She
         | frequently calls the entertainers that appear on the screen her
         | family. So this satirical observation is at least as old as
         | that fiction.
         | 
         | I frequently wonder how AR/VR will play in this particular
         | space. Cynically, I believe there is a killer app to be had
         | there.
         | 
         | 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451
        
           | Terry_Roll wrote:
           | > In Fahrenheit 451
           | 
           | The rewriting of online history is going on right now, its
           | like Fahrenheit 451 is a blue print.
        
           | drivers99 wrote:
           | I got really into watching Twitch for a while in 2020
           | (especially IRL content such as a mechanical watch repair guy
           | (relevant to yesterday's top post about watches), musicians,
           | and other small streamers I could get to know and they'd
           | recognize my name) and that scene often came to mind.
        
             | reggieband wrote:
             | I wanted to keep my post short so I didn't list all of the
             | ways I feel we express this tendency. Others mentioned
             | podcasts and talk radio but Youtube and Twitch are great
             | examples. There is no denying that people who watch
             | creators like Mizkif are feeling like they are part of a
             | group of friends. Ludwig called it out most famously in his
             | parasocial video [1]. It is so well known it is already a
             | hackneyed meme.
             | 
             | Sometimes I feel smug looking down on people who become
             | obsessed with the latest Kardashian drama or the British
             | Royal Family or whatever celebrity culture. But then I turn
             | a critical eye on myself and I'll realize I spend a lot of
             | time watching YouTube videos on woodworking, small engine
             | repair and outdoor activities. I don't do any of these
             | things and I tend to watch the same creators over and over
             | again.
             | 
             | Some people want to feel like they have hyper-crazy friends
             | like Jake Paul who live wild fantasy lifestyles. I'm not
             | certain that is different than me watching videos of some
             | guy quietly building a log cabin on his own in the woods.
             | 
             | 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzyQbfh4t_8
        
         | pigtailgirl wrote:
         | the risk is also low - you can feed your lonely without much
         | risk of damage - the real world is harsh - the world you curate
         | for yourself can be as you please - given we tend away from
         | difficult human interactions[1] - this cure of the lonely is
         | easy and "safe" - however - more difficult to assess - is this
         | making us more or less lonely?
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.google.com/search?q=books+about+difficult+conver...
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | Many youtubers use youtube to reach out to friends or make
         | friends. For younger generations using the media as antidote to
         | loneliness is more common. Unfortunately all the media rot
         | after a sweet period
        
         | acwan93 wrote:
         | I've read that the decline of religion also plays a role here.
         | Aside from the religious aspect, the sense of community and
         | regularity you get meeting the same people on a regular basis
         | is lost.
         | 
         | It's kind of the mix of a loss of "third place" (institutions,
         | coffee shops, etc.) and the increase of social media bubbles
         | that pushes us to be more polarized, I think.
        
           | ehnto wrote:
           | The only place I've gotten the regularity feeling of a third
           | place was a really specific gym I used to both work and train
           | at. Everyone knew who I was even if I didn't train with them,
           | because I also worked there, so when I trained there it was
           | my third place as well and I was always having great
           | conversations.
           | 
           | I haven't had anything like it since, and I've been
           | relatively proactive too. I have hobbies, go to meets, and go
           | to the same coffee shops and restaurants so often that they
           | know my order, but there is always this barrier between
           | everyone, like no-one needs eachother because they have their
           | phones. I ride the same bike park twice a week and go to the
           | gym every couple of days, but I moved on to a 24/7 gym and
           | everyone is buried in their phones, and I don't see the same
           | people twice at the bike park. Me and the cleaner always have
           | a great yarn though, I appreciate that.
        
             | Aromasin wrote:
             | I always say to people that CrossFit is my church, and
             | while I say it with mild sarcasm, internally it is true.
             | Everyday I turn up, see the same people, build a community
             | to the extent we do socials, help each other out with all
             | manner of things, and honestly it gives me fulfilment more
             | so than anything else I do.
        
               | acwan93 wrote:
               | Maybe that's why places like SoulCycle, Barry's Bootcamp,
               | or yoga studios have also sprung up. People _do_ want
               | connection, just not in the way it was before.
        
               | 331c8c71 wrote:
               | I know next to nothing about crossfit and it definitely
               | looks like religion to me. I'm not even sure where this
               | impression comes from but it's probably first or second
               | thing that comes into my mind when I hear "crossfit" (the
               | other thing is that someone I vaguely know does it to
               | keep in shape -- but we never discussed it in any
               | detail).
        
               | ehnto wrote:
               | There is a level of passion and commitment to crossfit
               | that other disciplines don't always have, and due to the
               | way it's practiced it's really beneficial to have your
               | own space for it so crosfit tends to happen at crossfit
               | only gyms, at scheduled times amongst regular
               | practitioners.
               | 
               | To keep riffing on the religious theme, there was a fair
               | bit of controversy around crossfit when it first arrived
               | on the scene, to the point where even other fairly
               | similar gym disciplines were pushing it out of their
               | gyms. That kind of criticism tends to drive you back into
               | your group (the same way door-knocking drives evangelists
               | back to the warm embrace of the parish), and I almost
               | never see crossfit happening in regular gyms, just
               | crossfit gyms. As above that's partly practicality, but I
               | think it's also fair to say it wasn't received well at
               | first and that likely drove people to those specialized
               | gyms instead of practicing it at their local.
               | 
               | I do powerlifting/strength training and powerlifters had
               | the same issue in mainstream gyms, and there are
               | powerlifting specific gyms around. But that's gotten
               | better over time with mainstream gyms having
               | powerlifing/olympic lifting gear more often than not now.
        
             | jumpkick wrote:
             | On of the best "third place" locations I've had was a gym
             | as well. This was about 15 years ago, before iPhones and
             | Airpods, etc. existed, or were as prevalent, so it was easy
             | and common for gym regulars to strike up conversations and
             | get to know each other.
             | 
             | I don't go to the gym anymore, but a few years ago when I
             | resumed for a bit, everyone was on their phone, or dead-
             | eyed while listening to music or a podcast, etc, and not
             | interested in talking to anyone.
        
               | NaturalPhallacy wrote:
               | Boxing/mma gyms are good for this. Can't really keep
               | headphones in if you get hit in the head!
        
           | organsnyder wrote:
           | The community of my church is probably keeping me there more
           | than my faith is.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | I'd probably be more into church if it was just a social
             | club and didn't come with that expectation that you'd be
             | worshiping an invisible sky daddy, adopting questionable
             | morality/philosophies, and attending what's basically a
             | Republican political rally every Sunday. My wife goes to
             | hers and it's nice, socially for her, that it comes
             | prepackaged with a ready-made group of friends, but as soon
             | as the Bibles and Trump flags come out, I bounce.
        
           | arcticfox wrote:
           | That's a really good point... These days a lot of us work-
           | from-home or independent contractor types don't even have
           | much of a _" second"_ place.
        
         | the_only_law wrote:
         | > I wonder if this is because people are lonely..? Just
         | wondering out loud here.
         | 
         | Discord has propped up my social life for years now. And I mean
         | outside of the internet as well! I also engage in independent,
         | more traditional social engagement and it usually ends in
         | nothing more than a hangover.
         | 
         | Not unexpectedly, the internet makes it easier to bring people
         | with similar interests/believes/personalities together. There's
         | also some weird demographic issue where apparently the internet
         | is the only place where people my age seem to exist. I meet a
         | ton of people irl m, mostly much older, with some only several
         | years younger or several years older. In the past year for
         | example, I've met maybe 2-3 people who were within a year of
         | myself.
         | 
         | Also I often find myself mindless swapping discord channels or
         | refreshing HN or Twitter constantly, when I'm bored and want to
         | talk/argue/whatever, typically at night.
        
           | Der_Einzige wrote:
           | Discord is most likely the most phallocentric large scale
           | platform ever made. It is an abysmally terrible place to go
           | to meet people, and particularly to go argue. Ever seen what
           | the most popular politics server on discord looks like? 4chan
           | is tame by comparison...
        
             | gigaflop wrote:
             | Deep rock Galactic is a video game that actually has a
             | decent Discord integration, to the point where I feel like
             | I gain value from being there.
             | 
             | The general chats are whatever, but having a collection of
             | people who may respond to an LFG call is great for when I
             | want a higher-quality batch of compatriots for the more
             | 'hardcore' parts of the game. Plus, they have a bunch of
             | pre-made voice pods that cap at a game's player limit, and
             | have built support for direct-in-Discord lobby invitations.
        
             | ehnto wrote:
             | The issue isn't discord, discord is in essence just IRC
             | again. IRC wasn't exactly a bastion of intelligent
             | conversation in all corners, but one of the biggest issues
             | I think the internet currently faces is that everyone is
             | here now. Every brain with a thought no matter how vapid or
             | vile is now joining the conversation.
             | 
             | But just like with IRC, it's all about the specific
             | community you've joined, not the platform. You can
             | definitely find good communities on discord.
        
             | the_only_law wrote:
             | Cry about it somewhere else. Most of the servers I'm in are
             | private servers with small amounts of users and a pretty
             | good gender balance.
        
             | Aurelius3 wrote:
             | It started out as a pc gaming type thing, so yeah, most of
             | it is men, but the choice of server matters and they have
             | expanded and rebranded a lot. If you are going on political
             | servers it's already not worth it and you missed the point
             | with discord, stick to small servers made by friends,
             | people to play games with, or communities dedicated around
             | 1 thing like open source projects or some specific media,
             | etc. Once servers become too general or inclusive the
             | system breaks, but even then on large servers (political or
             | not), 4chan is not tame in comparison.
        
           | ehnto wrote:
           | I have found that people who grew up on the internet tend to
           | have a "third place" that's online, which it sounds like for
           | you is discord. That kind of makes that your priority over a
           | real-life third place like a pub or something, since it's
           | where all the people you are super familiar with are it's
           | easier just to stick around that.
           | 
           | For me all my online third places disappeared (specific IRC
           | chats and forums), and I never really found another. I'm on
           | discord but they're very shallow places for me now. I spend
           | most of my time online just on YouTube, and the rest of my
           | time at work, with my partner or family, and doing hobbies.
           | It's a very reasonable offline-life but I do find myself
           | missing a third-place. Maybe I need to join a gaming clan or
           | something.
        
         | gigaflop wrote:
         | It feels like a semantically-strained take, but I think Twitter
         | is more of a place for people to say things, than it is for
         | having conversations. Most people seem to use the site to
         | broadcast something to their audience without really engaging.
        
       | specialist wrote:
       | FOMO
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Solution: every day, make a list of stuff you found on the
         | internet that you couldn't possibly live without.
         | 
         | Chances are your list is empty all the time.
        
       | georgia_peach wrote:
       | Dear Bearblog,
       | 
       | Coffee. Stimulants.
       | 
       | A M P H E T A M I N E S !
       | 
       | You're welcome.
       | 
       | -GP
        
       | jmrm wrote:
       | No one mentioned, but when we are here, looking anything at the
       | screen, we aren't thinking about those thing we don't want to do,
       | and this could be a coping mechanism to avoid doing those things.
       | 
       | After a severe burnout I would also say that we need some time
       | everyday to not do anything who require some mental or physical
       | energy, and that could be browsing the internet, watching the TV,
       | or just laying in the sofa looking at the ceiling.
        
       | roguas wrote:
       | The algorithm. It can offer you a very decent local maximum. So
       | you keep riding the wave of decent local maximum. If you stray
       | from this path you might find a better value but you also may
       | find (more often than not) no progress at all. For the bigger
       | journeys "career" and what not I do not recommend to follow local
       | maximum paths you will go very on the surface and true fun is in
       | the depth.
        
       | adra wrote:
       | If you have social media apps, TURN off notifications, block them
       | forever!
       | 
       | I also tried using greyscale screen modes in accessibility and I
       | found it cut my phone usage in half. Definitely a cheap win for
       | me to the point that I barely ever use my phone for "idle" time
       | anymore, and certainly not "the" place I go to satisfy my need to
       | spend time.
        
         | 331c8c71 wrote:
         | I don't get how people could have them on. I have a tendency to
         | put my phone in absolutely silent mode so it's a pain to find
         | at home -- simply calling doesn't work)))
        
       | dailyplanet wrote:
       | If it annoys you, then you're probably an extrovert.
       | 
       | I am an introvert and I like being alone and being able to choose
       | how much I self-express and communicate. In person, I do not have
       | as much choice about my time and energy commitment in front of
       | company if I want to be polite. It's just easier for me to manage
       | my social bandwidth while being on the internet.
        
         | II2II wrote:
         | I am also an introvert and the computer is an easy escape after
         | a day of what I can only describe as sensory overload. That
         | said, the author's point was more about productivity than
         | socialization. There, I can only agree.
         | 
         | To offer a couple of personal examples: I have to actively
         | avoid certain types of games since it is far too easy to
         | explore virtual worlds, gather virtual resources, and build
         | virtual things when I would feel more productive doing
         | something real. That something real may be as mundane as
         | learning how to develop software more sophisticated than toy
         | projects, simply because the product is reflects reality rather
         | than fantasy.
         | 
         | The other example is my tendency to watch other people do real
         | things, like embedded development or repairing electronics. I
         | have the interest and I even have most of the tooling. Still,
         | consuming is easier than creating. That is especially true
         | after a mentally exhausting day.
         | 
         | I can only conclude that technology has made some things easier
         | than others, and that it doesn't necessarily correlate with
         | what people value. It doesn't even matter whether those values
         | are social or asocial.
        
         | jansan wrote:
         | I think he is more annoyed of being unproductive, i.e. wasting
         | time on social media instead of getting work done. I am more of
         | an introvert and love working alone, but I hate looking back at
         | a day and realizing that I spent most of my time lurking on
         | certain wensites instead of implementing that undo
         | functionality which I had originally planned.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | I've personally focused on improving the quality rather than
       | trying to push down the time.
       | 
       | i.e. browse more /r/selfhosted and less /r/ukpolitics
       | 
       | Leaves me in a slightly better mental state - less continuous
       | outrage vibes.
       | 
       | And same for twitter - I never post, and follow a handful of the
       | hn gang basically.
       | 
       | Not perfect but adjusting reddit subs and follows is a mechanical
       | actionable action you can take and get done today where "spend
       | less time" is a vague aspiration for the future that requires
       | continuous motivation
        
       | petercooper wrote:
       | It's so often expressed it feels like a universal, but I don't
       | feel like I do, at least. I spend a _lot_ of time on the Internet
       | but I don 't think it's a waste because there's nothing else I'd
       | rather be doing. Now, maybe my ambitions and dreams are set a bit
       | low, but that's a different matter ;-)
        
       | HoraceSchemer wrote:
        
       | zackmorris wrote:
       | For me it's because I come up with roughly 10-100 ideas per day
       | that I'd like to do, but there is (and will never be) enough time
       | to do them all.
       | 
       | So I live vicariously through all of the other people doing the
       | tiny handful of things that they manage to do in their entire
       | lives.
       | 
       | This brings me down periodically, but then I remember that time
       | is an illusion, and our perception that we're wasting time on the
       | internet would seem comical to people who had never seen it (as
       | recently as 1995) and will be remembered with fondness when we
       | near the singularity (as soon as 2035).
       | 
       | Practicing non-attachment and understanding that this is not
       | forever has really helped me rise above the downward spiral of
       | depression, back to the upward spiral of gratitude for being here
       | as part of the human experience.
        
       | kurofune wrote:
       | >sometimes i wonder why do i waste so much of time on internet
       | 
       | I enjoy my time on the internet and I treasure it as a tool for
       | reaching new intellectual heights but not in a straightforward
       | fashion. I speak two languages more than my own native one thanks
       | to the time "wasted" on the internet shitposting on imageboards &
       | forums, watching JP vtuber clips and anime, playing CRPGs or
       | MMORPGs, etc... and that's just the one quantifiable metric I can
       | offer, cause to me it's pretty clear I would be a worse, less
       | polished version of myself if I hadn't spend so much time on the
       | internet running in circles.
       | 
       | >not even doing productive work >back to that unproductive and
       | mindless pithole
       | 
       | What a tragic and servile mentality to think we are always meant
       | to be productive to deserve enjoying our time on this Earth;
       | guilt-tripping yourself back into the cog in the machine mindset
       | to force yourself to become something you don't really want to be
       | seems a terrible choice. That path will only lead to wearing you
       | down, eroding your actual capability to be productive in the
       | process.
       | 
       | PS: Try to improve your experience on the internet by constantly
       | filtering your information sources until you find you stay here
       | useful.
        
         | bradstewart wrote:
         | I don't think OP is implying _all_ time on the internet is
         | wasted. Or that we are meant to always be productive.
         | 
         | Speaking personally, I think all of the time I spent gaming and
         | "hanging out" in specific internet/gaming circles when I was
         | younger was hugely valuable. I think some portion of the time I
         | currently spend reading HN is valuable.
         | 
         | But there are absolutely times where I _want_ to be doing
         | something productive, to be accomplishing a task, but I
         | mindlessly browse the internet instead.
        
       | oliv__ wrote:
       | This link should be pinned to the top of HN permanently: what a
       | time saver!
       | 
       | I've impulsively opened up HN at least 5 times today, then closed
       | the tab feeling shamed by this link haha.
        
         | praptak wrote:
         | HN has built in antiprocrastination controls.
        
       | rambambram wrote:
       | Do you even lift? I mean that seriously.
       | 
       | Lifting heavy weights helps one get rid of all that mental
       | bullshit. It's a cornerstone habit. So lifting can form a base
       | for all other beautiful stuff in your life.
       | 
       | It's hard to care about trivial shit on Youtube or Instagram when
       | you just lifted dumbbells until fatigue and did some good squats.
        
         | keenmaster wrote:
         | Or browse the internet between sets. It's big brain time. I'm
         | not even joking, if you're going to waste time at least
         | multitask and get stronger/healthier in the process.
        
           | emadabdulrahim wrote:
           | For that reason I never take my phone to the gym. I just
           | enjoy resting between sets. I also try to make my workout as
           | efficient as possible.
        
           | gigaflop wrote:
           | This is the sole reason I use reddit on my phone. I keep a
           | tab for AskReddit, open something for later if the title
           | seems interesting enough, and at least skim the thread within
           | a few days. No app, no login, old-style UI.
           | 
           | Since my brain is usually disengaged when lifting (gotta save
           | those calories for what matters), I rarely bother with
           | anything 'deep' between sets.
           | 
           | One potential upside of this is that the threads are usually
           | a few hours or days old before I actually read them, which
           | means that I can expect no new content from them once I have
           | my fill of a thread.
        
         | almost_usual wrote:
         | Or you start worrying about RPE / programming and comparing
         | yourself to others.
         | 
         | At least that's what happened to me. Got very strong over the
         | years, didn't get much happier, and then would stress out about
         | losing any gains that were made.
         | 
         | Eventually I quit caring and started walking more. I feel the
         | same.
        
       | blueflow wrote:
       | Might be some kind of addiction. I suspect because smoking works
       | for me as substitute.
        
       | PeterStuer wrote:
       | As opposed to wasting so much time on ... ?
        
       | gcheong wrote:
       | " I even made a stratergy to stop this, but no matter what I do,
       | it just...doesn't work. I will follow that thing for 2-3 days
       | then back to that unproductive and mindless pithole. "
       | 
       | You could view it as a failure or you could view it as something
       | that worked for 2-3 days and go from there.
        
       | terr-dav wrote:
       | Like any other addiction, it's a way of coping with painful
       | emotions that you (and I) are hiding from (consciously or not).
       | I've been in therapy for several years now and I'm still
       | struggling.
        
         | dudeDDRrulez wrote:
         | Top answer IMO.
         | 
         | Substituting drugs, alcohol, shopping, cutting yourself, etc,
         | it's all the same root cause which is hiding somewhere deep
         | inside yourself. Either do the work to find out what that root
         | cause is or be held hostage by it. Took decades for me to
         | figure it out for myself. Well, the process took decades to
         | play out. Once the root cause was dealt with, improvement was
         | instantaneous.
        
       | geniium wrote:
       | So I can reply to that kind of question
        
       | dcolkitt wrote:
       | > Its not like I enjoy them 10/10. So why do I do this?
       | 
       | I'll push back on this. I think we have such a deep inbuilt
       | instinct to lie about the things we enjoy that we often delude
       | ourselves. Humans are social creatures, and the things we say,
       | especially the things we say about ourselves almost are heavily
       | biased by what we think will make others like and respect us.
       | 
       | You know this as well as I do. When people ask you what your
       | favorite music, movies or foods are you'll almost always
       | prominently declare the high status things you want and omit the
       | low status. It doesn't even feel misleading. Of course my
       | favorite food is sushi and not french fries, even if truth be
       | told and I spent a minute introspecting I'd have to admit that in
       | the moment I probably enjoy McDonalds more than Nobu. Why would
       | it be any different about the moment-to-moment activities we
       | enjoy?
       | 
       | Note this is very different that what produces a sense of
       | fulfillment on a broader, zoomed-out level. If I think of any
       | abstract weekend a year in the far future, of course my far mode
       | self-image tells me to say I'd prefer to spend it doing a cool
       | hobby like hang gliding than binge watching reality TV. And
       | afterwards, I'll have fonder memories of the hang gliding
       | adventure than the 9th season of The Bachelor. But in the actual
       | day itself, I'm almost certain binge watching is more enjoyable
       | on a moment-to-moment level than hang gliding.
       | 
       | There might be some short exhilarating intervals that slightly
       | edge out the dopamine peaks of the reality TV reveals and drama.
       | But the day of hang gliding also involves a ton of boring
       | monotony and sweaty gruntwork. The medians and especially the
       | lows are much more enjoyable vegging out on the couch.
       | 
       | What even is the point of driving this home? Because I think the
       | lying is counter-productive to actually changing the behavior.
       | Like the drunk who paints a romantic narrative about how the
       | reason he drinks is to numb the pain, when in reality he's just
       | lazy and undisciplined and really genuinely enjoys getting
       | loaded, especially compared to applying to jobs.
       | 
       | If you've deluded yourself into thinking you don't even like some
       | habit, then you've also deluded yourself into how easy you can
       | change that habit. "I don't even like endlessly mindlessly
       | scrolling through my YouTube feed, so all I have to do is build a
       | better system and remove the triggers and it will be a problem".
       | But if you really, really enjoy mindlessly scrolling YouTube,
       | that won't work. Little, arbitrary barriers aren't going to stop
       | you. The only fix is to do the deep psychological work it takes
       | to build discipline and impulse control.
        
       | zelias wrote:
       | Hits a little close to home. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and
       | anyone who speaks out about this should be applauded.
       | 
       | Years from now we will still be examining the after effects of
       | years spent at the mercy of addictive user engagement algorithms.
        
         | dan12ha wrote:
         | Well done, you have condensed and encapsulated the problem into
         | a single line. This is evil corps motto, "Keeping you at the
         | mercy of our addictive user engagement algorithms since 20xx".
        
       | ruined wrote:
       | sometimes i wonder why do i waste so much time high, not even
       | doing productive work. Just drinking and smoking and sometimes
       | doing lines. Its not like I enjoy them 10/10. So why do I do
       | this? I even made a stratergy to stop this, but no matter what I
       | do, it just...doesn't work. I will follow that thing for 2-3 days
       | then back to that unproductive and mindless pithole. I haven't
       | achieved anything in life, but i want to, i want to own
       | things...i want to have friends...i want to have fun....but
       | this....something is just holding me. I could simply just say i'm
       | lazy, but is that a good reason..why would i even need a reason.
       | 
       | I would like to think its not laziness, but then what even is it?
       | And again i will search on the internet about this, find some
       | videos that talk about this, then some people in the comments
       | will say the "i suffer from the same things",,,and then? then i
       | will feel better that there are people that are similar to
       | me....and? guess what? back to the same routine. I am sick of
       | this...its like i know i will not have these comfortable days,
       | these days where i just sit down and stay sober. But what will be
       | at the other side of it? A person who i would envy and want to be
       | like or someone who no one cares about and is pathetic
        
       | DerekBickerton wrote:
       | I'm not sure about wasting. Most of my surfing consists of
       | unearthing gems, and I have to wade through a lot of noise and
       | muck to find those gems, but the gems are there. If I could
       | automate it, I would, but it wouldn't be the same.
       | 
       | A piece of code that crawls the net looking for something I would
       | really enjoy is a hard problem, and I would have to code in my
       | own biases to the program to make it work properly, and this
       | means I couldn't share the program with others since it would be
       | very personal and context specific.
       | 
       | I am aware of confirmation bias and filter bubbles, but it
       | doesn't mean I don't like my own bubbles. It's just plain
       | psychology afterall and we're all human, although I do try to
       | break out of my comfort zone in terms of what content I consume,
       | and regularly scout for different places to get my content
       | besides The Bird Site, Reddit, FaceBuck etc
        
         | IntFee588 wrote:
         | The quality to noise ratio on mostly social media platforms has
         | become obscenely low over the past three years or so. I do
         | think social media can be a force for good but it seems like
         | the algorithms are best at perpetuating the lowest effort,
         | spamiest content.
        
         | medicalman wrote:
         | Completely agree with this - it's those gems that keep us
         | addicted. If the internet were 100% time wasting garbage, I
         | think it would be easy enough to quit completely. But that tiny
         | percentage of good content, which can often be _very good_
         | (some of the best and most worthwhile writing I have ever
         | encountered has been posted on obscure forums), keeps you
         | searching for the next  "hit."
         | 
         | Personally, I would love to subscribe to a paid service that
         | would produce a "daily briefing" of sorts with well curated
         | highlights of the internet. Content aggregators have tried to
         | get at this, but the signal to noise ratio is still way off. If
         | someone could produce this product, I actually think it could
         | be quite successful.
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | Can you give an example of such a gem? Normally I just rely on
         | HN to provide me with interesting links, but lately it doesn't
         | seem to give me the same kick it used to.
        
           | mdoms wrote:
           | I'm not the person you asked but I try to keep my gems in
           | bookmarks, would love to share some. Obviously I don't know
           | your interests so take it for what you will. I have many more
           | than I'll post here if you want some.
           | 
           | Some of this came from HN, some from elsewhere.
           | 
           | This website lists the first references to some cultural
           | icons on Usenet (for example the first time AIDS was ever
           | discussed, first mention of a new TV cartoon "The Simpsons",
           | etc.) http://www.eightyeightynine.com/culture/80susenet.html
           | 
           | The Public Domain Review, a collection and analysis of
           | interesting stuff in the public domain
           | https://publicdomainreview.org/
           | 
           | David Rumsey Historical Map Collection. I have spent many
           | hours browsing the incredible content here.
           | https://www.davidrumsey.com/
           | 
           | Artvee. Free, high quality art. https://artvee.com/
           | 
           | Restoration Mustang. A high quality long term journal of the
           | restoration of a classic Mustang. Think like an /r/diy
           | project but with way more detail and over a longer time
           | scale. https://restorationmustang.com/
           | 
           | The Renegade Gardener. Highly opinionated no-bullshit
           | gardening advice. I especially love the "Don't Do That"
           | section. https://renegadegardener.com/
           | 
           | Garden Myths. There's a lot of misinformation and old wives'
           | tales in gardening, this website cuts the crap.
           | https://www.gardenmyths.com/
           | 
           | Million Short is a search engine that lets you cut out the
           | million (or 10,000 or 100,000) top results from a search,
           | really good for finding gems. It also has an option for
           | removing e-commerce websites from search which is a godsend.
           | https://millionshort.com/
           | 
           | This one is relevant if you live in New Zealand and love the
           | outdoors: Can I Light a Fire?
           | https://www.checkitsalright.nz/can-i-light-a-fire
        
           | DerekBickerton wrote:
           | Sure. Some links I just bookmarked and will use:
           | 
           | https://highbrow.se/ (Alternative search engine)
           | 
           | https://cora-pic.com/en (Meme generator)
           | 
           | https://www.mightyapp.com/ (New upcoming cloud browser)
           | 
           | https://ossdatabase.com/ (Database of OSS)
        
           | gpm wrote:
           | My own list, which is pretty different in character than
           | Derek's.
           | 
           | Gankra's work on a useful rust memory model is both
           | fascinating and useful:
           | https://twitter.com/Gankra_/status/1509335163045650436
           | 
           | This tool to convert low-complexity rust tests to proofs is
           | interesting and something I'm glad I know exists:
           | https://model-checking.github.io/kani-verifier-
           | blog/2022/05/...
           | 
           | I'm using this code I found out about via reddit in a side
           | project, probably less interesting to you though:
           | https://github.com/setzer22/egui_node_graph
           | 
           | (Warning, videos from here on out):
           | 
           | Cool product demo of a futuristic debugger:
           | https://www.hytradboi.com/2022/debugging-by-querying-a-
           | datab...
           | 
           | These people also have a cool demo of splitting a single
           | program across two different computers (frontend and backend
           | webserver in their case). Maybe a bit less convincing than
           | the previous one, but something I intend to watch:
           | https://www.hytradboi.com/2022/uis-are-streaming-dags
           | 
           | These people have some really cool work on automatically
           | solving physics problems (just linking to one of their talks
           | as an example): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHhDgxkiR9c
        
         | shortstuffsushi wrote:
         | > code in my own biases to the program to make it work properly
         | 
         | Isn't this, in theory, what the "algorithms" are trying to do
         | for you? They see what you interact with and try to optimize
         | for "similar" content to surface these gems for you
         | automatically, since it will keep you in their platform longer.
        
       | eimrine wrote:
       | Where to spend my time else?
        
       | daenz wrote:
       | I waste time on the internet when I am "compiling" My thoughts.
       | Being in knowledge work, like many others here, means that most
       | of the work is performed by thinking about a problem. After the
       | problem has a good solution or set of solutions, there's only so
       | much active thinking you can continue to do about it. I like to
       | take a break and screw around while the solutions percolate some
       | more. I usually see something I didn't afterwards.
        
       | sdo72 wrote:
       | I think the internet just feeds what most people want or our
       | minds want. It can be in a form of happiness, agreement,
       | entertainment, etc... It's just part of spending time on things
       | that we like to do. It may be considered as wasteful to some, but
       | may not since that's what we want.
       | 
       | There are many people who have tried to quit and eventually
       | gotten back because life out there may be boring, at least to
       | their mind temporarily.
       | 
       | Until there're some serious conditions that cripple our physical
       | bodies, then we consider some changes.
       | 
       | I think it's all a part of living things. We don't normally say
       | "why does human waste so much time on earth?"
        
       | lbriner wrote:
       | I suspect lots of different reasons but for me I think it is
       | simply catharsis to engage with something that doesn't require
       | effort or reaction unless I want to, I can just consume. This
       | helps my brain recover from the focussed deliberate work I do
       | during the day.
       | 
       | Of course, this does beg the question, if we took steps to stop
       | doing it, would it give us more time to do useful focussed work
       | or would we instead just watch TV, read a book, go to the part or
       | whatever.
        
       | gravypod wrote:
       | Well if you want friends the first step is to find them. Wish
       | there was an easier way to do this but messaging people from
       | HN/Slack/Discord has been a great option
        
       | modinfo wrote:
       | Honestly I have the same problem, but I found a very simple
       | solution to be productive.
       | 
       | The problem is not the internet itself, but a fast internet that
       | allows you to watch videos.
       | 
       | A simple and yet very effective solution is to have 64kbps
       | internet, at first sight it sounds absurd, but actually it's a
       | very good solution for people who want to be productive, with
       | such internet you can easily browse the most important sites like
       | Stackoverflow/GitHub/HN, download packages from npmjs or use
       | IRC/SSH.
       | 
       | I've been working on 64kbps for two years now and if it wasn't
       | so, I wouldn't get as much as I did thanks to the low speed
       | internet.
        
       | thingification wrote:
       | The mechanism of https://www.beeminder.com/ is unreasonably
       | effective at limiting this kind of thing.
        
       | hussainbilal wrote:
       | It sounds like their habits are influenced by your environment.
       | Just tie the habit to a new productive habit. Make it work for
       | you.
       | 
       | Example 1: start learning a new natural language, and also switch
       | all your social media feeds to only provide content in that
       | language. You'll either lose interest in learning the language
       | and start withdrawing from social media, or your unbreakable
       | habit will sustain your new language learning habit.
       | 
       | Example 2: I listen to a lot of music. I don't feel right unless
       | it's running in the background. So I tried learning french and
       | listen to only french pop. It worked for a few months, but then I
       | hit the problem of not being able to pick up spoken (not written)
       | french and parse its grammar while also trying to pick up the
       | phonetics of native speakers. But I then learned about creole and
       | its more flexible and simpler grammars and phonetics. I was able
       | to start thinking in the language using french vocabulary. So I
       | pivoted my habit to learning Haitian Creole and listening to
       | Haitian music.
        
         | hawksprite wrote:
         | This sounds like a methodology I'd like to try. I've not heard
         | of it before. Do you have any suggested Haitian musicians or
         | artists?
         | 
         | Thank you for sharing.
        
       | nonstickcoating wrote:
       | Another key factor is, that YouTube interleaves really well made
       | educational content with fun and stupid videos (these have their
       | own merit, of course). I think this leads to people hunting for
       | new videos about topics that really interest them, those can be
       | insightful and stimulating. At the same time, the next 20 minute
       | TikTok compilation is one click away, as well as numerous click-
       | farmy videos with no real substance but the appearance of depth
       | and knowledge. This is simply not possible if you, for example,
       | get your knowledge and entertainment from e.g. books. To click a
       | funny video after watching a good video essay or educational
       | content is somehow simpler than putting away your textbook and
       | searching for your favorite comic in your bookshelf.
        
       | llaolleh wrote:
       | It's the hedonic dopamine treadmill. It's not the content that
       | drives this endless dopatrain, it's the nice UI and interactivity
       | of the spinning window and flashing pages.
        
       | NanoWar wrote:
       | Really: What can you do?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | scubakid wrote:
       | It's almost like the platforms were designed and optimized to
       | keep you on them ;)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | est wrote:
       | I am so used to Internet since young, and sometimes feel guilty
       | of the time wasted on it. So I spent sometime completely cut off
       | from the online world, go back to books and in-person
       | interactions.
       | 
       | Ironically, books and people kept telling me: why r u hearing
       | this now? It's already _all over the Internet_.
        
       | coldtea wrote:
       | > _why do you waste so much time on the internet._
       | 
       | Because it's better than your regular life and what you have to
       | do at work. And nothing realistic will give you the means to go
       | beyond those.
        
       | caffeine wrote:
       | There is a great episode of Jocko podcast with Andre Huberman
       | that just came out where he carefully addresses this specific
       | issue. Worth listening to (it's in the first hour or so, I
       | mention it because it's 5 hours long!!)
        
       | oicU00 wrote:
       | Because my career has curved away from solving problems to
       | find/replacing parameters in template repos
        
       | uvu wrote:
       | I am also in similar situations. Currently, I stopped using all
       | social media. This video help me https://vimeo.com/97415346 in
       | some way as well. I think its a habit and addiction combination.
        
       | danuker wrote:
       | Relevant: http://paulgraham.com/addiction.html
       | 
       | > Societies eventually develop antibodies to addictive new
       | things. [...] It took a while though--on the order of 100 years.
       | 
       | > Most people I know have problems with Internet addiction. We're
       | all trying to figure out our own customs for getting free of it.
        
       | Apreche wrote:
       | Just speaking for myself, I've noticed that my habit is to eat
       | what is in front of me, and clean my plate. I mean this both
       | literally and figuratively.
       | 
       | If I have dessert in the house, like a bag of chocolate, then I
       | eat one after dinner. If I don't have it in the house, then I
       | just don't eat dessert.
       | 
       | If I have a social media feed full of content, then I'll scroll
       | through all of it until there's nothing else that's new.
       | 
       | So what I've been doing is not entirely quitting Internet stuff,
       | but instead I just massively unsubscribing, unfollowing, and
       | filtering all the feeds. Sort of a Marie Kondo thing. I go
       | through every subreddit I'm in, every RSS feed, every account I
       | follow on Twitter, and i strongly consider "is this really
       | providing lots of joy and/or value?" If not, it gets the chop.
       | 
       | I've cut out at least 2/3s of the stuff I was following since the
       | peak, and it's only going down. Now when I doomscroll it's only
       | for a few minutes. I hit the end of new content very very
       | quickly. When that happens I start to look elsewhere. I've been
       | reading a lot more actual books, done more chores, and been more
       | productive overall.
       | 
       | As for the things I unfollowed? They clearly had no value because
       | not only do I not miss them, I can barely even remember what they
       | were.
        
         | fma wrote:
         | Switching Twitter to timeline mode rather than their poor
         | excuse of an algorithm helps. Learned that from HN....but I
         | have a browser plug-in that also removes all their recommended
         | and "Joe also owed this tweet" junk.
        
           | warkdarrior wrote:
           | Which browser plug is this? It sounds amazingly useful.
        
             | fma wrote:
             | https://github.com/insin/tweak-new-twitter/
             | 
             | If you need it for mobile, on my mobile (Android) I
             | downloaded Kiwi Browser so I can install that plugin.
        
           | Braini wrote:
           | Funny enough I have the opposite opinion regarding twitter:
           | If I use it in timeline mode I have the urge to read through
           | all of it until where I stopped last time as the OP described
           | (same with my Feedly RSS feed) In algorithm mode its more
           | like a "don't care, its garbled anyway, just a sea of stuff".
           | That being said I am still mostly using timeline mode.
        
         | dclowd9901 wrote:
         | In weight watchers (yes, weight watchers), we classified
         | certain foods as "red flag foods"; these were foods that we
         | _knew_ we could not control ourselves around. The kind of food
         | where you have one, and then suddenly you've finished the
         | bag/box.
         | 
         | I tend to agree with you: if it's there, you're going to go for
         | it. We all have things like this. "Cleaning your plate" is a
         | good metaphor, but I'm betting you don't "clean your plate"
         | when it comes to exercise or other things that may be less
         | enjoyable.
         | 
         | Identify the things in your life that are red flags, and
         | consciously keep them out of your life. It's hard at first, but
         | soon, you don't even miss them.
        
         | lowbloodsugar wrote:
         | So many threads on HN are basically "What does neurodiversity
         | look like?"
        
         | grvdrm wrote:
         | Are there entire feeds that you've deemed too wasteful? I get
         | that you can slash much of what you look at on Twitter and
         | still get what you want.
         | 
         | But what about things like Instagram, TikTok, etc. - did you
         | delete those apps altogether or also aggressively trim (if you
         | use them)?
        
           | SamBam wrote:
           | I cut out Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.
           | 
           | Facebook I left a decade ago, for its ethical issues.
           | Instagram I left because I felt the performance aspect was
           | unhealthy: even in my only-friends-and-family circle, I'd
           | still care too much about picking out the perfect photo of my
           | kid or wherever.
           | 
           | For Twitter I realized it was way too easy to get sucked down
           | political/angry feeds. One day Twitter said my account has
           | suspicious activity (maybe a bot tried to log in) and I
           | needed to reply to an email to re-enable it. I never replied
           | to the email. Somehow this meant that _every time_ I followed
           | a Twitter link, I 'd get that alert, so I could never see
           | content. I felt so much happier.
        
         | RC_ITR wrote:
         | I think a corollary to this is the relatively modern idea that
         | life needs purpose in the form of measurable accomplishments.
         | 
         | Looking back at how most people lived their lives, it was
         | sustenance, interspersed with things like family, religion, and
         | friendship (if you were lucky). Nearly nobody owned much,
         | nearly nobody 'did cool things,' nearly nobody was famous.
         | 
         | They all just had a part of life (surviving) that they knew was
         | bad and hard work, then they tried as hard as they could to
         | escape that briefly.
         | 
         | Now, we expect work to be fulfilling _and_ non-work to be
         | fulfilling. For the majority of people where that isn 't true,
         | it feels really depressing, which is compounded by the fact
         | that society pushes you to spend more time on improving the
         | work side of things (which again for most people will not be
         | intrinsically fulfilling no matter how hard they try), so they
         | end up feeling lonely and sad.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | In the world of food it was a watershed moment for me in
         | controlling my waistline when I stopped checking the unit price
         | on items at the store.
         | 
         | The brain invents its own portion sizes that are more dependent
         | on the size of the container than the total supply. I don't
         | know how you introduce portion control to the Internet, but we
         | definitely need it.
         | 
         | Some people have strategies for avoiding a shopping cart full
         | of junk food. I wonder how far you can stretch that into media
         | consumption before the analogy tears.
        
           | number6 wrote:
           | Interesting, I had the same thought about the size / price
           | ratio recently. I want most bang for the buck but it kills my
           | waistline
        
         | jimbokun wrote:
         | There was a study with a soup bowl that would automatically
         | refill, and found people ate a lot more than they would if just
         | given a regular soup bowl.
         | 
         | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15761167/
         | 
         | It strikes me the Internet is now a bottomless soup bowl of
         | content, and we have know indicators to tell us when we should
         | stop.
        
           | spupe wrote:
           | It's a good analogy, but that study was retracted:
           | https://www.theguardian.com/science/head-
           | quarters/2018/feb/1...
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | This is great advice. Unsubscribing, especially from the stuff
         | that triggers me, helps me not to waste too much time.
        
           | VBprogrammer wrote:
           | Yup, dashcam videos / crashes is a huge time sink which I
           | have to ruthlessly unsubscribe from. It's one of those things
           | where you can feel your blood pressure increase as you watch
           | it.
        
         | dotnet00 wrote:
         | I noticed the same about myself and have been doing something
         | similar. I haven't been as focused on cutting down things I
         | follow (actually even increasing), instead just paying
         | attention to what I find valuable and aggressively cutting out
         | everything I either dislike or find superfluous and spammy (eg
         | if I see the same post multiple times on my reddit feed, I'll
         | quickly check the poster's profile, if they spam the same
         | content on several subreddits regularly I'll block them even if
         | the content is something I enjoy).
        
         | baby wrote:
         | On the other hand I started following only "teaching chinese"
         | accounts on instagram. Whenever I go on instagram I just watch
         | stuff to learn chinese because it's in my feed.
        
         | fdsfdsafds wrote:
         | You're on the path, and the end is almost inevitable - no
         | social media accounts at all, and no smartphone. It's
         | wonderful.
        
           | 331c8c71 wrote:
           | Haven't been using social media for more than five years and
           | it doesn't feel like I'm halfway there.
           | 
           | Now I am using my smartphone pretty much in the same way I
           | was using my PC when smartphones didn't exist (e.g. 20 years
           | ago): quite a bit of browsing and few comments here and
           | there.
           | 
           | It's not that I can't do without smartphone: on holidays I
           | can totally avoid using it for browsing. But that inevitably
           | comes back to "normal".
           | 
           | And I'm pretty sure I was distracting myself with literature
           | in a similar way when I was even younger (e.g. 25 yrs ago). I
           | read very fast and hardly retain anything:) Is it in any way
           | healthier? Not so sure, it feels like binge reading is as
           | addictive and unsatisfying -- I do that nowadays (rarely)
           | too.
        
         | Vladimof wrote:
         | > If I have a social media feed full of content, then I'll
         | scroll through all of it until there's nothing else that's new.
         | 
         | I could never do that with Facebook as it is mostly all useless
         | crap and ads
        
         | gigaflop wrote:
         | I used to spend a lot of time on youtube, in part because I had
         | the free time to spend on it, and had gaps in my schedule that
         | were convenient for watching certain content creators.
         | 
         | Since moving into the workforce, my free time is no longer
         | segmented into so many pieces. I don't get as much value as I
         | used to from 10 to 15 minute chunks of entertainment, so I stop
         | keeping up with the sources, and just lose touch.
         | 
         | It isn't that the content I'm leaving behind is bad or 'cheap',
         | it's just that I don't have the time and attention to keep up
         | with most of it. My entertainment time is better spent on stuff
         | that takes longer to engage with/consume, since those bigger
         | things are often more valuable as entertainment.
        
           | uoaei wrote:
           | I'm coming to a realization across all facets of my life,
           | where I am interested or engaged in many more things than I
           | have time for. I am starting to prepare myself for the
           | uncomfortable process of sacrificing a few (in fact, many)
           | things I've previously mentally and emotionally invested in,
           | but I know it's going to be a big shift and the dread causes
           | my feet to drag. There's just not enough time... and I don't
           | believe that the solution is "improve focus and productivity"
           | because that's a fast track to burnout and disengagement for
           | all but the most obsessive of minds.
        
             | gigaflop wrote:
             | Curiosity can be a curse, and has killed several cats.
             | 
             | I may have been on psychedelic mushrooms at the time, but
             | something I took away from the trip was an acknowledgement
             | of a feeling of 'shedding' in life, in terms of hobbies and
             | interests.
             | 
             | Stuff will get boring and be forgotten, or fall to the side
             | and be ignored while it collects dust. This is something
             | that I should expect to happen, and be prepared for. So
             | long as you derived some value from those once-great
             | things, it hasn't been a waste, and is just a symptom of
             | time passing.
             | 
             | Maybe you pick those things back up later, and maybe you
             | don't. For myself, I think my 'best life' would be one
             | where I had the space and tools to be able to pick up or
             | put down whatever ideas come to me.
        
               | uoaei wrote:
               | > I may have been on psychedelic mushrooms at the time,
               | but something I took away from the trip was an
               | acknowledgement of a feeling of 'shedding' in life, in
               | terms of hobbies and interests.
               | 
               | I had a very similar feeling in a similar setting, like a
               | large part of the process of life is scrubbing crusty
               | exteriors off so that new capacities can emerge. Like
               | continuous molting.
               | 
               | Thanks for the reminder.
        
         | u2077 wrote:
         | > my habit is to eat what is in front of me
         | 
         | This! I often let my phone run out of battery and avoid
         | plugging it in so I can do other things.
         | 
         | From a similar thread, someone mentioned that phones are only
         | good for content consumption. When I'm on the computer, I'm at
         | least somewhat productive and the distractions aren't quite as
         | strong.
        
           | haxiomic wrote:
           | It's what's keeping me running an old phone; short battery
           | life has its advantages!
        
         | Dave_TRS wrote:
         | I'm the same way, keep me away from buffets, cupboards
         | containing sweets, and any newsfeed.
         | 
         | One thing I've founds success with was getting a digital
         | Economist subscription (confession, just a shared password).
         | Having a steady stream of high quality content without paywall
         | nonsense helped me replace my regular trolling around internet
         | with something more useful and less addictive. Perhaps paying a
         | bit for something high quality can help fill void for those
         | dopamine seeking internet impulses.
        
         | BolexNOLA wrote:
         | >I just massively unsubscribing, unfollowing, and filtering all
         | the feeds.
         | 
         | Nothing has been more effective for me than this, as well
         | unfriending/following people or accounts that actively make me
         | angry. Had to unfollow like 10 people tops and the quality of
         | my feeds got noticeably better.
        
         | uoaei wrote:
         | "Out of sight, out of mind" works great for me too. It's
         | staying occupied so that your thoughts don't meander back to
         | that thing, that makes the trick.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | A lot of addictions are borne and sustained out of boredom.
           | When you find something else to fill time, they can be
           | removed relatively easily.
        
         | haliskerbas wrote:
         | Thought this was just me and it's so refreshing to hear. I can
         | never eat just part of a bag of chips. Or save the really good
         | sandwhich for later. Or not drink another coffee because I
         | already had one. Etc. etc
         | 
         | Do lots of other folks experience this? I seem to only have
         | self control when it hurts my job or income, and even then,
         | barely.
        
           | skocznymroczny wrote:
           | An easy way to have self control is to switch to a keto-like
           | diet. You don't even have to count calories and carbs in most
           | cases. There's a variant called lazy keto, where you just
           | stick to approved foods and don't need to count. It's
           | surprisingly hard to overeat on things like cauliflower and
           | pork chops.
           | 
           | Be wary however of the more "extreme" advice on keto-like
           | diets. You don't have to stuff yourself with fats, or put a
           | stick of butter in your coffee.
        
             | thoughtpeddler wrote:
             | 100% this. People often ask me "How do you stick with keto?
             | It's such a strict diet." I always answer: "It's actually
             | one of the easiest diets: the answer to most 'can I eat
             | this?' question is 'no'."
             | 
             | There isn't a persistently high cognitive load on deciding
             | what you can eat, once you master the foundational
             | knowledge of eating low-carb.
        
               | riekus wrote:
               | I really want to follow it, but what about the bad
               | breath?!
               | 
               | It's definitely a thing, you can smell when people are in
               | ketosis
        
               | jjtheblunt wrote:
               | isn't that ketoacidosis not ketosis? (i'm genuinely
               | asking )
        
             | uuyi wrote:
             | This is terrible advice. Any fads are. Ketogenic diets are
             | not good for you in any way.
             | 
             | Bad behaviour starts with acknowledgement and the best way
             | to do that is to track what you eat and learn to adapt
             | slowly and develop self discipline. Use a tracker app and
             | set a reasonable daily break even nutritional target and
             | start thinking about what you eat. Slowly substitute better
             | choices in. Eventually you will develop self control.
             | 
             | People want quick fixes but keto just breaks other things.
        
               | dawidw wrote:
               | What is so bad about keto diet?
        
               | reportingsjr wrote:
               | The key thing you do in a keto diet, entering a state of
               | ketogenesis, can cause massive complications for diabetic
               | people due to ketoacidosis.
               | 
               | Unfortunately a lot of people who would be interested in
               | dieting and trying out a keto diet are diabetic. It's not
               | always dangerous, but it's generally not a good diet for
               | diabetic people because of this.
        
               | tomca32 wrote:
               | This is incorrect. I'm a Type 1 Diabetic and in my
               | opinion keto diet is probably the healthiest diet a
               | diabetic can be on.
               | 
               | Ketoacidosis is a result of extremely high blood sugar
               | for a prolonged period of time combined with ketosis. The
               | reason this happens is that without insulin your body
               | cannot use the sugar in your blood so your blood sugar
               | keeps going up and your body doesn't get any energy out
               | of it.
               | 
               | What happens when your body is out of fuel for a couple
               | of days? It enters ketosis and starts to burn fat. Ketons
               | mixed with sugar in your blood will acidify blood, this
               | is ketoacidosis. It's an extremely dangerous condition.
               | 
               | However, if a diabetic is on keto diet they will have low
               | blood sugar and their body will enter regular ketosis
               | almost eliminating the need for insulin and ensuring a
               | stable healthy blood sugar.
               | 
               | In other words, a diabetic will end up in ketoacidosis if
               | they're bad at controlling their blood sugar, regardless
               | of their diet. However, if they are on keto diet the
               | chance that their blood sugar will be very high is
               | extremely small. High blood sugar is the killer, not
               | ketosis.
               | 
               | I've been doing a keto diet on and off for a number of
               | years. When I'm in ketosis my blood sugar is steady in
               | 80-100 range and I don't need almost any insulin.
        
               | uuyi wrote:
               | Not going to list them here but I suggest you go and do
               | some research of the side effects and risks from actual
               | medical research not HN users.
               | 
               | For me it ended in a few days in hospital.
        
               | incrudible wrote:
               | How?
        
               | aurizon wrote:
               | https://www.ndtv.com/health/top-10-reasons-why-you-
               | should-no...
        
               | incrudible wrote:
               | This is a very low effort, unsourced listicle, that is
               | probably wrong on several points. Disregarding that, I
               | was more curious about how this particular person managed
               | to get hospitalized.
        
           | scruple wrote:
           | > Do lots of other folks experience this?
           | 
           | I don't think we're alone but I doubt that we're "normal."
        
             | newbamboo wrote:
             | I'm normal.
        
               | doubled112 wrote:
               | Anybody want to define "normal" ?
        
               | scruple wrote:
               | I'm Joe, nice to meet you.
        
           | steve_adams_86 wrote:
           | I think a lot of people with ADHD would relate, or have been
           | able to at some point.
        
             | evergreyskies wrote:
             | ADHD here. Kids are ADHD. My Malinois has to be ADHD. Being
             | ADHD like I am with almost two decades of IT under my belt
             | has felt weird. I crave my YouTube channels and certain
             | news sites since the content creators I watch/read put out
             | daily content. Ditto my insane amount of caffeine and
             | nicotine consumption, which I learned from having my kids
             | diagnosed, is me self medicating in lieu of something
             | pharmaceutical. I'm also OCD, so that doesn't help. People
             | with ADHD/OCD need closure something fierce, so when I feel
             | like I'm not getting it, I feel the world is not right.
             | 
             | On the professional side, my ADHD/OCD makes for some clean
             | code and pedantically-set up servers. Nothing says ADHD/OCD
             | like taking two days to crank out code which some of my
             | colleagues can crank out in half the time. I'm told I'm too
             | pedantic sometimes. Too much of a perfectionist. ADHD can
             | do that to you. I'm happy with my lot in life.
        
               | jotm wrote:
               | I don't know why this comment feels like a punch in the
               | face... I have severe ADHD, it's been getting worse and
               | only medication helps, and I cannot get it.
               | 
               | I have failed my whole life, I cannot start shit, I
               | cannot finish anything, I'm just an impulsive monkey who
               | is unfortunately aware of their own situation, stuck
               | inside a body, forced to watch a deadly trainwreck in
               | slow motion.
               | 
               | The little I've achieved has taken me 10x as much time as
               | it would've a normal person. And I'm pissing it all away
               | anyway.
               | 
               | This is hell.
               | 
               | And then I see "everyone in my life is ADHD lolkek" "I'm
               | happy".
               | 
               | Sorry. Glad your case is mild enough.
        
               | tlokas wrote:
               | I don't have ADHD, but I have family with ADHD.
               | 
               | Wouldn't you say that ADHD affects the person, and
               | therefore the type of personality would change the
               | outcome? (In contrast to ADHD defining the person)
               | 
               | Edit:spelling
        
               | s5300 wrote:
               | Why can't you get medication? Is it because of the
               | country you live in?
        
           | XCSme wrote:
           | It's common.
           | 
           | We tend to keep doing what we are already doing (an inertia
           | of sorts). If we are eating, we keep on eating (even if we
           | are not hungry anymore) until an external factor stops us
           | (e.g. the food is over).
           | 
           | Changing states (starting/stopping) is the hardest part, but
           | if you trick yourself somehow to stop it's easy to just put
           | the food aside. The question that remain is how do you stop
           | yourself from doing what you are currently doing? Some people
           | use an "1,2,3 technique", where you just count to yourself
           | and once you reach three you start doing what's needed.
           | Mindfulness also helps, where you take a breath and think
           | exactly what you are doing and why (I am eating, I am putting
           | my hand in the bag of chips, I am bringing the chip to my
           | mouth even if I am not hungry and don't even enjoy it that
           | much, this would just make me feel fat afterwards).
        
           | sgtnoodle wrote:
           | I think it's pretty common. I personally call it "Goldfish
           | syndrome", although apparently that's caught on with another
           | informal meaning according to the internet.
           | 
           | Eating and drinking delicious high calorie things rewards
           | your brain. On an evolutionary time scale, delicious things
           | were relatively rare and often required expending a lot of
           | energy to acquire. In the last 100 years or so, modern
           | technology has shifted the typical diet to be primarily
           | cheap, processed high calorie foods.
           | 
           | If you want to change your behavior, I would suggest calorie
           | counting with a phone app. Do it every meal or snack, before
           | you eat it. Even if you don't restrict yourself, it will make
           | you consciously aware of your intake. You'll naturally start
           | thinking in terms of energy intake rather than sensory
           | intake. You'll also start to be able to correlate your
           | emotional state to your current level of hunger rather than
           | the other way around. "I am so hungry I could eat 300
           | calories of potato chips!" I did that for a few months
           | recently and lost 8 pounds. I stopped doing it more recently,
           | and have gained 3 back.
           | 
           | If you're a hipster at heart and have free time, you could
           | also start doing more of your own food processing at home.
           | Rather than order a pizza ever again, learn how to make a
           | really good hand stretched pizza dough from scratch. If you
           | really like good coffee, buy a hand grinder and whole beans,
           | or figure out how to roast your own beans.
           | 
           | If you think you're eating unhealthy and having external
           | pressure would help with your self control, maybe just go see
           | a primary care physician and request a cholesterol check and
           | to be screened for non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. If you
           | have indeed been too indulgent and lethargic over an extended
           | period of time, your cholesterol will probably read high, and
           | you probably have fat in your liver that may be causing
           | slightly elevated enzyme levels. A Dr. telling you to try to
           | eat healthy may not be motivating, but quantitative data may
           | be.
        
             | crdrost wrote:
             | If you want an altogether nerdier name maybe call it
             | Wittgenstein syndrome?
             | 
             | Drury reports a conversation with the famed philosopher:
             | 
             | > So the next day when we were alone I asked Wittgenstein
             | to tell me more about Kierkegaard. Wittgenstein:
             | "Kierkegaard was by far the most profound thinker of the
             | last century. Kierkegaard was a saint." He then went on to
             | speak of the three categories of life-style that play such
             | a large part in Kierkegaard's writing: the asethetic, where
             | the objective is to get the maximum enjoyment out of this
             | life; the ethical, where the concept of duty demands
             | renunciation; and the religious, where this very
             | renunciation itself becomes a source of joy. Wittgenstein:
             | "Concerning this last category I don't pretend to
             | understand how it is possible. I have never been able to
             | deny myself anything, not even a cup of coffee if I wanted
             | it. Mind you I don't believe what Kierkegaard believed, but
             | of this I am certain, that we are not here in order to have
             | a good time."
        
             | ricardobeat wrote:
             | > Rather than order a pizza ever again, learn how to make a
             | really good hand stretched pizza dough from scratch
             | 
             | This is good for different reasons, such as less additives
             | in your food which might be healthier in the long term,
             | taste, and the pleasure in the activity itself, but is
             | unlikely to help with weight loss. There is little
             | difference in calorie content between two similar pizzas,
             | home made and from a restaurant (assuming you're not eating
             | Domino's cheese-stuffed crust style pizzas).
        
               | nebulous_two wrote:
               | If you compare the same pizzas restaurant vs. homemade
               | then sure, but learning to do it well allows you to
               | modify everything to suit your needs. A really nice thin
               | crust can be made with quite a bit less dough, which may
               | then need a lot less cheese to saturate the dish. Just
               | like that you've knocked down two of the most calorically
               | heavy parts of a pizza!
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | For me it depends on how my day is going.
           | 
           | When I first read about willpower being an exhaustible
           | resource, it totally aligned with my experience. A few years
           | later I read that those ego depletion studies had been
           | invalidated and that surprised me. Running out of willpower
           | seems like something I experience.
        
             | tlokas wrote:
             | That is my experience too.
             | 
             | But it might be something that is subjectively felt, and
             | people then attributed it to be something that depletes.
             | Even if the depletion is invalidated, the subjective
             | feeling might however still be valid. --- If I should
             | suggest another possibility on the spot, I would suggest
             | mental fatigue. You get tired of denying yourself things
             | the same way you get tired of denying your kid pestering
             | you for a treat.
             | 
             | It's not directly depletion, but I could subjectively
             | describe it as a resource getting depleted.
        
               | nebulous_two wrote:
               | It might be worth thinking about what it is that is being
               | depleted, exactly. When I "run out of willpower" it
               | doesn't really feel the same as when I "simply cannot do
               | it anymore". If I lift a weight enough times, eventually
               | I simply can't anymore, no matter how much I will it.
               | It's not a decision, like a decision to stop working on a
               | problem. That would be a lack of willpower to
               | continue...?
               | 
               | Is there really a mental equivalent to physical
               | exhaustion that leaves us beyond the ability to make a
               | decision? Is that what running out of willpower would be?
        
           | riekus wrote:
           | This is me so bad. I have it in the good and bad ways.
           | 
           | In the good I will run couple marathons a month and in the
           | bad I will eat whatever I can find.
           | 
           | I always felt like an outcast, good to hear I am not alone :)
           | 
           | For media consumption it is exactly the same. The good is
           | that I get to the nitty gritty of technical problems. But I
           | also read the unless crap till no end.
           | 
           | I have been able to ditch Twitter, reddit, Facebook and
           | Instagram but I just substitute it with hackernews and
           | YouTube.
        
             | xkbarkar wrote:
             | Haha. Same here. I have gotten back into reading though.
             | That took a while because I lost the ability to concentrate
             | on books as I grew more dependent on streaming and social
             | media. Its been about a year now, since I left all the
             | major social media hubs, got incredibly selective on daily
             | news (only one local media outlet and a couple of polar
             | opposite international ones that I pay for) and cut down on
             | watching streaming services, that I started to be able to
             | concentrate on reading books again. I grew up reading
             | everything I could get my hands on. I missed it terribly.
             | 
             | HN and youtube still stick. Mostly tutorials, workouts or
             | info videos ( Andrew Huberman, justforfunc, 3blue1brown
             | etc. ) on youtube though.
        
           | joaomacp wrote:
           | It may be a common trait in programmers, since we're rewarded
           | by getting to the bottom of things: "why is this function
           | failing? who calls it? in which possible states?"
           | 
           | Most programmers have experienced being so immersed in code
           | that we don't notice time is passing, forgetting to eat or
           | sleep.
           | 
           | It's similar with immersion in social media / food /
           | whatever. We become lost in the activity and lose our sense
           | of self.
           | 
           | I've recently heard of the concept of conscientiousness as a
           | personality trait. People with low conscientiousness tend to
           | procrastinate more, and it's tied to ADHD. Apparently it can
           | be trained. I'm trying (though not really succeeding) to make
           | pauses, take a deep breath and think about "what am I doing
           | right now? What should I be doing instead?". Seems so basic,
           | like I've regressed to being a child who has no self
           | control...
        
             | trash_cat wrote:
             | It's worth mentioning that conscientiousness is a
             | personality trait that's part of the "big five"
             | personalities traits. It's a personality trait brouping
             | that is supported by evidence [1] unlike Myers Briggs [2].
             | 
             | [1] https://www.simplypsychology.org/big-five-
             | personality.html
             | 
             | [2] https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-
             | flapping/2013/mar/...
        
             | bityard wrote:
             | I identify with all of this, but this:
             | 
             | > to make pauses, take a deep breath and think about "what
             | am I doing right now? What should I be doing instead?".
             | 
             | this too can have its pitfalls. In my case, I always feel
             | like I have BOTH too many things that I WANT to do and too
             | many things HAVE to do and whenever I step back and try to
             | look at the bigger picture, I realize that I don't feel
             | like I'm making tangible progress on any of them. And then
             | the anxiety sets in and I feel like, "well, if I'm working
             | this hard and not even keeping up, why am I working at
             | all?" And so I sort of "give up" for a few days or a week
             | and feel even MORE guilty because literally nothing is
             | getting done and I'm getting even further behind.
             | 
             | A lot of the comments I write here may sound like I really
             | have my shit together, but that's just because I have a lot
             | of generalized experience that just basically comes from
             | lots of introspection and time being alive. But I have yet
             | to figure out the one weird trick to being both productive
             | (making progress toward future life goals) and happy
             | (enjoying what I have in the present).
        
               | billti wrote:
               | I joke about my procrastination with my team: "I looked
               | at my TODO list for the day and there's no way I can get
               | to 90% of it, so I might as well just not get to 100% of
               | it". Sometimes there's a lot of truth to the joke,
               | however.
               | 
               | As much as I know I should prioritize it based on
               | urgency, highest impact, what I could delegate etc., if
               | the willpower required to do that is more than the
               | ramifications or not doing it, it can be a losing battle.
               | 
               | On days when I push through a ton of work, I'm energized
               | at the end of the day. Compared to the feeling of guilt
               | that I just wasted a day when there's so much to do and I
               | achieved little. Yet knowing that still just doesn't
               | provide the necessary motivation some days. I've yet to
               | figure out a reliable solution for it.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | stult wrote:
           | Yes indeed, many of us do. Nearly everyone I've ever dated
           | gets mad at me at some point because I can't keep cookies in
           | the house or I will eat them all. You are far from alone, and
           | in fact I suspect the overwhelming majority of people are the
           | same. Hence the obesity epidemic.
           | 
           | Personally I find that my self-control is limited to the same
           | extent that my time and energy are limited. If I'm tired,
           | it's harder for me to be disciplined, and the place that I
           | most often tired is at home at the end of the day, when
           | temptation to over eat is at the greatest. I believe there is
           | a fairly substantial body of evidence that shows I am not
           | unusual in this regard. This phenomenon is why groceries
           | stores put candy in checkout lanes, when you are mentally
           | tired from exercising discipline by not picking up the
           | delicious-looking tray of cupcakes in the bakery aisle and
           | thus are most susceptible to temptation.
           | 
           | I think some people can just use willpower to maintain their
           | discipline in every situation, but those people are extreme
           | outliers. Like Navy SEALs or Olympic athletes or other
           | extreme high performers, and not even all of them. Those who
           | can are experts at delayed gratification and are able to
           | visualize what they want and then never deviate from their
           | plan for how to achieve it, regardless of their current
           | emotional state or energy levels. But that is vanishingly
           | rare and often their behavior is a result of some deep trauma
           | (eg someone who is super disciplined about their diet because
           | their dad died early from an obesity-related illness) rather
           | than a positive focus on a certain outcome. The truth is that
           | the vast majority of people just follow their natural
           | inclinations and do whatever is easiest for them. The path of
           | least resistance.
           | 
           | As one such weak-willed person, my approach has been to
           | structure my life to remove temptations, much as the GP
           | comment above described their approach to curating their
           | internet content. For example, I have lived almost
           | exclusively in big cities for my entire life until the last
           | year, when I moved to the middle of nowhere. Which means I
           | can't get takeout food delivered and it's much harder to go
           | out and get ice cream on a whim. Compared to living in a
           | major city where I could get Michelin star restaurant food
           | delivered in a matter of minutes, the temptation is just
           | much, much less powerful. I order my groceries online too,
           | which also dramatically reduces the tendency to impulse buy
           | anything unhealthy (I get to skip the checkout lane with the
           | candy, for one thing). On the other side of the caloric
           | equation, I set up a home gym so that travel time to the gym
           | doesn't become an excuse not to exercise. Basically I add
           | barriers for bad choices and remove them for good ones. I am
           | in the best shape of my life as a result.
           | 
           | I guess what I'm saying is that most people achieve good
           | behaviors in part because of their intentional discipline and
           | in part because their environment is conducive to those
           | behaviors. The real trick is figuring out how to
           | intentionally structure your environment to match whatever
           | behaviors you want. It's effectively borrowing motivation
           | from your peak-energy level periods to provide discipline
           | during periods when you don't have the energy to generate it
           | yourself. It can be incredibly hard to figure out, because
           | you need to know how to change your environment and how you
           | will actually react to that new environment, which isn't
           | always predictable.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | eterm wrote:
           | I'm similar, but I'm far from neurotypical, so I can't say
           | whether it's typical or not.
        
           | hemreldop wrote:
        
           | bsder wrote:
           | > I can never eat just part of a bag of chips.
           | 
           | To me, part of it is being _mindful_. Don 't open the bag of
           | chips and then watch a movie or surf the net while munching
           | on them. You will eat the whole bag.
           | 
           | If I mode change from sitting in front of the computer to
           | standing in the kitchen eating the chips and then mode change
           | to back in front of the computer, I don't _mindlessly_
           | consume the whole bag. But I will still sometimes consume the
           | whole bag.
           | 
           | One thing I have also tried to do is differentiate between "I
           | want chips because I'm hungry" vs "I want chips because I'm
           | craving _salt_ ". It's not easy for me to tell the
           | difference. I coat some baby carrots in salt or Old Bay
           | seasoning and munch a few--if that keeps the munchies away,
           | my body wanted salt. If I'm hungry again 15 minutes later,
           | well, my body wants calories.
           | 
           | Nevertheless, I'm mostly in the camp of "Just don't have
           | chips/cookies in the house". It also helps that I learned to
           | bake as a child. I like _tasty_ desserts, and most of what
           | now exists is mostly sugar overload with no flavor. So, a
           | dessert easily sets off my  "Is this dessert tasty enough to
           | merit skipping two entire steaks <or insert whatever main
           | course you like> to compensate?" And, if my that activates,
           | the answer is almost always a resounding "No." and I skip
           | dessert.
           | 
           | Unfortunately for me, I found a middle eastern place that
           | does homemade Baklava with a cream filling. It's right next
           | to a Mexican restaurant that I also find quite nice. This is
           | a bad thing for my waistline.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | > If I have dessert in the house, like a bag of chocolate, then
         | I eat one after dinner.
         | 
         | I think for most with social media the equivalent would be to
         | eat the entire bag.
        
           | helpm33 wrote:
           | Yes, he eats one. Bag :)
        
         | kixiQu wrote:
         | https://tokimeki-unfollow.glitch.me/
         | 
         | Presents the Twitter accounts you're following so you can
         | decide whether they "spark joy"... pairs well with
         | 
         | https://opml.glitch.me/
         | 
         | Which looks at the accounts you're following, looks at the
         | links in their bios, sees if there's an RSS feed indicated at
         | that link, and puts the whole thing together into an OPML feed
         | (the standard XML-of-RSS-feeds format used for RSS reader
         | import/export, among other things).
        
           | dewey wrote:
           | I just spend the past 20 minutes in the unfollow tool. Thanks
           | for helping me waste so much time on the internet!
        
           | higgins wrote:
           | this tool is great, thank you!
           | 
           | i would love if a tool like this were made based on
           | interactions I've had with authors. generally, i like comment
           | or retweet content that "sparks joy".
           | 
           | would be a good first pass filter
        
             | kixiQu wrote:
             | Glitch will let you fork ("remix") and modify -- I don't
             | know if the Twitter APIs are real friendly anymore for that
             | open-ended of use, but it'd be worth trying :)
        
         | jbverschoor wrote:
         | We are just monkeys smashing buttons in front of us
        
         | leodriesch wrote:
         | Doing the same, but this does not really apply for algorithmic
         | feeds.
         | 
         | When you open YouTube the recommendations are always the first
         | thing you see, same for TikTok and Twitter (although at least
         | you can configure it there).
         | 
         | Sure you can say "just don't use recommendation systems" just
         | as you can say "just don't go on YouTube".
        
           | eimrine wrote:
           | > When you open YouTube the recommendations are always the
           | first thing you see
           | 
           | There is a brilliant hack to YT's urge to show you some BS.
           | Make a bookmark of YT submissions on HN. Clear cookies. Click
           | on any few random vids. Voila! Now YT considers you enough
           | smart person to be shown a decent recommendations!!! (But the
           | magic quickly disappears if you will click any BS from main
           | because my hack does not affects the main page).
        
           | eulgro wrote:
           | I just block the recommendation and comments section with
           | uBlock. No dessert, no temptation.
        
           | NoLinkToMe wrote:
           | True, but I exclusively watch YT on laptop and have the link
           | to my subscriptions. It really does help.
        
           | kradeelav wrote:
           | You can follow Youtube channels via RSS feeds, though, which
           | removes the issue with recommendations.
        
             | alexktz wrote:
             | This is the way.
             | 
             | https://github.com/tubearchivist/tubearchivist
        
           | madars wrote:
           | I use the following user stylesheet to hide YouTube
           | recommendations for exactly the reason you mention:
           | /* hide main page */         ytd-browse[page-subtype="home"]
           | {             display: none;         }
        
             | evergreyskies wrote:
             | Nice. I'll have to incorporate this little gem for the
             | Linux laptop. Thank you. When I'm home, I primarily watch
             | YouTube on my TV, but I don't use YouTube. Rather, I use
             | SmartTubeNext, which grabs the same videos as YouTube, but
             | has no ads, tracking, kills sponsored content in the video,
             | as well as no YouTube recommendations. I'm very happy with
             | it. I run it off my Amazon Firestick. If you're interested,
             | here is the how-to: https://troypoint.com/smarttubenext/
        
           | strifey wrote:
           | I find it relatively easy to use YouTube without exposing
           | myself to their recommendations (not that they're ever
           | particularly good, in my experience).
           | 
           | My bookmark for YouTube is directly to my subscriptions, and
           | it's also possible to create a android shortcut link directly
           | to subscriptions. Occasionally, a flow will direct me to the
           | homepage, but that's rare and I usually organically bounce
           | back to my subs without even thinking about it.
           | 
           | There's always recs below a video, but again, those are
           | rarely very interesting to me or they're things I've
           | subscribed to anyway.
        
             | cturtle wrote:
             | I've been using a really nice extension the past couple
             | months called unhook [0] that gives a lot of control over
             | the YouTube UI. I've disabled shorts, the homepage, related
             | videos, comments, etc. and now I only see videos I have
             | subscribed to. Much more useful (I subscribed for a
             | reason!) and much less time wasted. Just thought I'd share
             | in case it helps anyone!
             | 
             | [0]: https://unhook.app/
        
               | phatfish wrote:
               | That looks good, thanks.
               | 
               | I block recommendation sections on some site with the
               | ublock element picker (like the "recommendations"
               | stackoverflow puts in the right column from their other
               | sites, completely unrelated to the current page or search
               | terms).
               | 
               | I never got round to trying that with Youtube, this seems
               | a better solution.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | aeternum wrote:
           | The recommendation algos can be quite good but you need to
           | give them good signal. I doubt many people do this, but
           | clicking 'not interested' on the clickbaity vids and thumbs-
           | up high-effort content can very quickly tune your
           | recommendations to be very high quality.
        
       | orbit7 wrote:
       | I recall life before smart phones either feeling bored or being
       | looked at strangely for sitting on a laptop at a bus stop, not
       | that I cared.
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | Can't afford to move out to some place with land yet.
       | 
       | Otherwise I'd spend a lot of my time tinkering with stuff
       | outside.
       | 
       | I always have something playing whether it's music or tv (form of
       | YT or some Netflix-type place mostly YT though). Also my friends
       | are not in the same state as I am so I don't really have a life.
        
       | omalleyt wrote:
       | Variable reward schedules. Like slot machines.
        
       | taurusnoises wrote:
       | I'm repeatedly amazed by what makes it to the front page on HN.
       | I'm not judging, really I'm not, but this is the first post on a
       | blog (so, basically unknown) and is essentially two paragraphs
       | asking "why is it so hard to not stare at the internet all day?"
       | I'm stoked for the author to be getting some HN love, but what
       | about this deserves such an esteemed placement on HN??? It's
       | literally the same question every single person is asking and has
       | probably posted a thousand times before.
        
         | metadat wrote:
         | We like thought provoking discussion.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | taurusnoises wrote:
           | As do I. I'm just genuinely curious how this caught people's
           | eye. There's no way through the sea of "content" that these
           | two paras could stick out without an artificial boost.
        
       | epalm wrote:
       | Something that really helped me with YouTube was installing the
       | Unhook browser extension https://unhook.app/
       | 
       | Unhook can remove all 'suggested' videos. The home page will just
       | be blank, and when watching a video, there will be no other video
       | links on the page. This means I can still use YouTube, but I have
       | to search for what I'm looking for. This alone has completely
       | solved the endless video merry-go-round sessions.
        
         | ericskiff wrote:
         | Thank you! Just installed
        
           | epalm wrote:
           | No problem!
           | 
           | The real problem is "The Feed", the never ending infini-
           | scroll. I don't think it's a coincidence that usually the
           | item you're looking at in The Feed is shorter than the frame,
           | so you can always see at least part of the next item, and
           | when you scroll, you see part of the next item, and so on.
           | 
           | I need Unhook for Facebook and Reddit.
        
       | Decabytes wrote:
       | I waste so much time on the internet because it's easier than
       | doing anything else. Binging YouTube videos and peoples post
       | mortems gives me a dopamine hit akin to being productive without
       | actually putting any work towards my goals. I hate it.
        
       | belkarx wrote:
       | The modern internet, with ever-refreshing recommendations, is
       | fully intended to be addicting. Possible mitigations: make it
       | very inconvenient to repetitively view social media. Examples:
       | 
       | - Create UBlock rules to remove recommendations, only keeping the
       | search bar on the youtube home page so if you want to watch a
       | video you have to explicitly seek it out
       | 
       | - Redirect an address like reddit.com in /etc/hosts so it is
       | inaccessible
       | 
       | - Seek out more productive forms of social media, and set loose
       | timers for accessing them so you don't get caught in infinite
       | scrolling
       | 
       | - Do not have social media apps on your phone
       | 
       | - Turn off internet when doing productive work if possible. Or
       | employ context switches - one browser for fun, another for work.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | cute_boi wrote:
       | Same here :(. I understand the consequence, but still I spend all
       | my time watching useless news, reddit & hackernews. IDK why I am
       | getting so much addicted on internet... And, I believe this is
       | also why I haven't been able to achieve great things in my life.
        
       | mikotodomo wrote:
       | I only use it for 1 or 2 hours a day. But this was one of my
       | worries about becoming a programmer. Will it cause me to spend
       | ten hours a day on the computer?
        
       | MisterBastahrd wrote:
       | When I was a child, my father decided to convert from Catholicism
       | to Evangelical Protestantism. For reference, both sides of my
       | family have been Catholic going all the way back for at least 300
       | years. So a schism occurred. My dad dragged me to his church
       | services and wasted my entire Sunday mornings, and my sisters
       | remained in the Catholic faith. My mom told me on the day that I
       | was to first go to his church service that if I went with him,
       | that she was not my mother anymore. So I went with my dad,
       | because even at that age, I didn't do emotional terrorism.
       | 
       | Because this was in the 80s and we only had one television, books
       | were my refuge. I was a voracious reader. In standardized
       | testing, I went from having a 1st grade reading ability in 1st
       | grade to college level by 3rd grade. That tapered off because I
       | wasn't a huge fan of reading fiction and I had basically read all
       | the interesting non-fiction in the local library by 5th grade.
       | Being an 80s kid, I had a lot more personal autonomy than kids
       | since and started spending a ton of time outdoors, riding my bike
       | to go fishing and playing sports outdoors. When it got really
       | cold, I'd write code in GW-Basic, but that was mostly to enter
       | competitions to miss school (state science fair for the win).
       | 
       | So then I got to college, and was able to browse the web on NCSA
       | Mosaic. And there was just TONS of new things to read. My ADHD
       | went full blast reading article after article and my grades
       | suffered a bit. Every new day is an attempt to avoid falling down
       | the rabbit hole.
        
       | rocky1138 wrote:
       | I experience this and go through periods where I get away from it
       | all by setting Reddit and other sites to 0.0.0.0 in my hosts
       | file.
        
       | mrwnmonm wrote:
       | Feeding your identity?
        
       | u2077 wrote:
       | Stress for me is an equation.
       | 
       | When # things I need to do > # things I want to do, I become more
       | stressed.
       | 
       | Although each task has a weight to it as well. Needs are weighted
       | on importance and wants are weighted on desire.
       | 
       | This allows the "stress scale" to tip with many tasks or a few
       | larger tasks.
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | I'm approaching my 50s, and for me, it's because I am still
       | astounded by the achievement of a global, low-cost,
       | communications network.
       | 
       | When I was a child, international phone calls were still rare,
       | expensive, and unreliable things, and if you left your home
       | country, staying in touch mostly involved getting newspapers from
       | home (24 hours late), or maybe getting lucky and receiving
       | shortwave radio broadcasts like the BBC World Service or Voice of
       | America.
       | 
       | First getting internet access seemed amazing, and for me it's
       | _still_ amazing. Even when you were first tethered to a copper
       | phone line, that line seemed like a pipe to the entire world.
       | Cellular internet blew my mind, and satellite technologies like
       | Starlink are blowing my mind again.
       | 
       | What an absolute privilege to be living in an age of almost
       | universal global communication.
        
         | ineedasername wrote:
         | Yes, I remember that early thrill of a chat room or forum where
         | I was communicating with someone on the other side of world.
         | And not only that, the marginal cost to do so was practically
         | free once I already had a cheap second hand computer and a
         | dialup connection, and during college my school ran a free
         | dialup ISP for times when I was at home.
         | 
         | The shine has worn off though. The fact that you might be
         | 10,000 miles away or even typing you comments from the
         | International Space Station no longer thrills me. It's all
         | become mundane. (Well, if it was the ISS then I suppose that
         | would still be pretty awesome)
        
       | whoomp12342 wrote:
       | grayscale your phone. Its subtle psychology that keeps you coming
       | back
        
       | spark3k wrote:
       | When I was a kid my parents had a big physical encyclopaedia set.
       | I used to lose myself in those things just as much as I scroll
       | through stuff now. Just because in both instances, it's
       | "interesting".
       | 
       | But my brain doesn't necessarily discern between "good"
       | interesting and "bad" interesting without me trying to work it
       | out and guiding it.
       | 
       | Which I normally fail at.
        
       | sedatk wrote:
       | Dopamine addiction. Thank you for attending my TED talk.
        
       | abramN wrote:
       | I've been around since the birth of the internet, and just have
       | been amazed with how much stuff there is to do and see and learn.
       | Granted, there's a lot of cesspools, but lots of good wholesome
       | stuff too. I mean, think about it - when in the history of
       | mankind have we had so much information at our fingertips?
        
       | sidcool wrote:
       | I think it's akin to addiction. Internet secretes the pleasure
       | chemicals in brain. And it's fun.
        
       | tOUSSia wrote:
       | finally a hackernews article I feel qualified to have an opinion
       | on...
        
       | dcchambers wrote:
       | My completely unprofessional opinion is that almost everyone that
       | uses the internet throughout the day has developed some form of
       | undiagnosed ADD/ADHD.
       | 
       | The modern internet has broken our slowly evolved brains. We are
       | not built to cope with these types of attention destroying
       | activities and media. At least 20 years ago you had to sit down
       | at a specific place and use a chunky computer. Smartphones have
       | made it 1000x worse.
       | 
       | There's no easy solution. I don't think becoming a digital
       | luddite is the answer...but we all need to be more intentional
       | with our time.
       | 
       | It's not the only answer, but Cal Newport's book Digital
       | Minimalism^1 is a good read for anyone that finds themself
       | feeling this way.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40672036-digital-
       | minimal...
        
         | the_only_law wrote:
         | I remember years ago being a teenager and having limited access
         | to computers and the internet so when I did have them I used my
         | time to learn as much as I could.
         | 
         | When I didn't, I got bored, and I picked up books. I remember
         | reading books on history, biology, psychology, electronics,
         | programming, etc. and learning from them, often just by
         | flipping pages and reading passages that looked interesting. In
         | fairness, even nowadays, it's not uncommon for me to have a
         | dozen Wikipedia tabs opened about random stuff that piqued my
         | interest.
         | 
         | Nowadays I can't get bored anymore. My phone is rarely out of
         | arms reach and I own every steam game I ever wanted and a
         | computer that can handle them.
         | 
         | Recently, I recall trying to work on a side project when I got
         | stuck on a design aspect. My power went out later and with all
         | my devices dead and I remember being bored to death, pacing
         | around the apartment when the solution came to me.
        
           | Crabber wrote:
           | Someone introduced me to the same idea a few years ago and it
           | really stuck with me, "the only time people in the modern
           | world experience boredom is in the 15 seconds before they
           | pull out their smartphone".
           | 
           | It's in moments of boredom that you start having deep
           | thoughts about the world, start thinking through solutions to
           | problems you have, start thinking about changes you can make
           | in your life.
           | 
           | I got rid of my smartphone and now the 20 minutes each day on
           | the train where I'm "bored" are one of the most valuable
           | parts of my day. And my mind feels much fresher after it,
           | rather than being crammed with 20 minutes worth of mental
           | junk food from the internet.
        
             | v-erne wrote:
             | >> I got rid of my smartphone and now the 20 minutes each
             | day on the train where I'm "bored" are one of the most
             | valuable parts of my day. And my mind feels much fresher
             | after it,
             | 
             | Thats interesting - I think I lost ability to be bored even
             | if I do not reach for phone immediately. My mind somehow
             | switches to a strange mode where I reply random events from
             | my life and try to come out with different plays for each
             | interaction. And I cannot do this if I feel discomfort -
             | its too hot or too cold etc. And I used to think that this
             | was boredom but now I think this was because I was
             | distracted by environment. The real boredom is something
             | that I vaguely remember from my early childho hit`od and I
             | cannot get there now - my mind is to full of past
             | interactions. The smartphone age can be somehow at fault
             | here - maybe my brain thirsts for dompamine hit so much
             | that it creates its own mental junk.
        
             | 30944836 wrote:
             | >I got rid of my smartphone
             | 
             | Teach me! How do you keep in touch with people on the go?
             | This is the only thing that has stopped me from dumping my
             | iPhone altogether. I sometimes leave home without it but I
             | end up relying on others for coordination, etc -- which
             | means I haven't liberated myself so much as fobbed off the
             | responsibility to others.
             | 
             | I don't have social media (besides HN), so my main contact
             | with people who aren't in my immediate vicinity is through
             | sharing photos directly on iMessage and the odd article-
             | inspired rant.
        
               | Crabber wrote:
               | I just use a PS15 nokia phone (they still make them). It
               | calls, texts, and plays snake.
               | 
               | Texting on a T9 keyboard is slow but I've come to
               | consider that a feature. Before I had a smartphone I
               | would just text everyone, now that texting takes actual
               | effort I find myself calling people more, or asking to
               | meet up in person. And I find myself forming much deeper
               | personal connections with people as a result.
        
         | olah_1 wrote:
         | > The average shot length of English language films has
         | declined from about 12 seconds in 1930 to about 2.5 seconds
         | today
         | 
         | https://www.wired.com/2014/09/cinema-is-evolving/
        
           | 30944836 wrote:
           | I think it's much shorter now, that article is almost 8 years
           | old. With the ubiquity of digital cinema, I suspect the
           | average shot length is 1.x seconds.
        
             | muwtyhg wrote:
             | What movies are these? An average shot length of less than
             | 2 seconds sounds like it would give me a massive headache.
        
               | 30944836 wrote:
               | Here's a list I stole from Quora:
               | https://www.quora.com/What-films-have-the-lowest-average-
               | sho...
               | 
               | ASL 1.55 - Doomsday (2008) : 4052 shots over 105 minutes
               | 
               | ASL 1.72 - Transporter 3 (2008) : 3360 shots over 96
               | minutes
               | 
               | ASL 1.73 - Domino (2005) : 4046 shots over 116 minutes
               | 
               | ASL 1.83 - Quantum of Solace (2008) : 3198 shots over 98
               | minutes
               | 
               | ASL 1.84 - Crank: High Voltage (2009) : 2718 shots over
               | 84 minutes
               | 
               | ASL 1.92 - Transporter 2 (2005) : 2524 shots over 81
               | minutes
               | 
               | ASL 2.01 - Band of Ninja (1967) : 3424 shots over 114
               | minutes
               | 
               | ASL 2.01 - Moulin Rouge! (2001) : 3594 shots over 120
               | minutes
               | 
               | ASL 2.03 - Gamer (2009) : 2502 shots over 84 minutes
               | 
               | ASL 2.03 - The 6th Day (2000) : 3418 shots over 116
               | minutes
               | 
               | ASL 2.08 - Hot Fuzz (2007) : 3304 shots over 115 minutes
               | 
               | ASL 2.10 - Dark City (1998) : 2982 shots over 104 minutes
               | 
               | ASL 2.15 - Armageddon (1998) : 4025 shots over 145
               | minutes
               | 
               | ASL 2.17 - The Transporter (2002) : 2420 shots over 87
               | minutes
               | 
               | ASL 2.17 - The Bourne Ultimatum (2007) : 2910 shots over
               | 105 minutes
        
         | 331c8c71 wrote:
         | Not exactly. It's definitely not ADHD if there's no prolonged
         | and debilitating impact. Being distracted an hour there and a
         | couple there is not like ADHD.
         | 
         | ADHD would be like more like falling in a pit where one
         | basically cannot do anything meaningful for days and days
         | despite willing to do so (if the motivation is lost, in turn,
         | we are talking about depression-like states).
         | 
         | I doubt that many of normal smartphone users get into such pits
         | despite they appear distracted and might have an urge to get
         | into one's smartphone.
        
           | tobylane wrote:
           | Agreed. We may have a lack of practise/comfort with the
           | slower pace, but I think it call it ADHD is to understate the
           | disorder.
        
           | ketzo wrote:
           | ADD/ADHD are very much a spectrum. If someone is having
           | trouble focusing for a few hours a day, even if it's not
           | literal days on end, I don't think it's crazy to investigate
           | ADD/ADHD as the cause/name of the problem.
        
             | 331c8c71 wrote:
             | Agreed. Especially if slacking for days would quickly lead
             | to negative consequences. ADHDs are often distracted until
             | the very last moment when the failure becomes imminent --
             | and then work to avoid it.
        
         | 30944836 wrote:
         | I found Newport's book to be so surface level for anyone with
         | even a passing familiarity with the problem that it wasn't
         | worth my time.
         | 
         | What really helped me was these two books:
         | 
         | (1) The Attention Merchants by Tim Wu (2) The Age of
         | Surveillance Capitalism by Shoshanna Zuboff
         | 
         | and the nextdns.io installed on all my devices. I literally
         | blocked Reddit, et al to break the cycle of "I just woke up so
         | I'mm scroll until I'm fully awake" and then oops -- an hour
         | went by.
         | 
         | The thing that ended up motivating me to change was reinforcing
         | for myself the fact that I'm in this mess because very smart
         | people have designed systems to exploit me. Fuck that. I'm in
         | control of my attention.
        
         | jordanpg wrote:
         | See also Stolen Focus: Why You Can't Pay Attention by Johann
         | Hari.
        
         | almost_usual wrote:
         | I would not be surprised if we have permanently damaged our
         | brain's reward centers.
        
         | AnonC wrote:
         | I'd also recommend Nicholas Carr's 2011 book "The Shallows:
         | What the Internet Is Doing to Our Brains". I read it a long
         | time ago and was impressed with its insights on attention (or
         | the lack of it) and the usage of the Internet.
        
         | iamhamm wrote:
         | I have diagnosed ADHD and I can waste just as much time on my
         | amateur radio as the Internet. I guess we get a pass due to the
         | technical neediness, but I spent 3 hours yesterday listening to
         | static trying to hear a specific station...
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | There were a few points in my life where:
         | 
         | - I forgot how time could pass outside of internet. Days were
         | flying in-house.. yet everytime I walked to anything 5mi away..
         | suddenly I felt like I lived a whole life yet only 1 hour had
         | passed.
         | 
         | - It reached a point where when my ISP was failing, seeing the
         | internet box being solidly offline dilated time in the blink of
         | an eye. I had a giant "oh god yes." screamed by my brain
         | because I felt free.. no more F5/refresh of stuff that only
         | satisfied me shallowly and forbid mind wandering or in-depth
         | activities. Stunning effect an electronic pipe..
        
         | senectus1 wrote:
         | information/stimulation addiction is a thing....
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | No, it's not. This "X is addictive" where X is
           | porn/videogames/making popcorn view is based on a flawed
           | understanding of brain circuitry.
        
         | ChrisFoster wrote:
         | ADHD is a developmental condition which is highly genetic and
         | relates to neurotransmitter brain chemistry (Dopamine /
         | Norepinephrine). People with ADHD have it their whole life,
         | it's not something you can develop in adulthood. However,
         | people can be (commonly are) diagnosed in adulthood, especially
         | for the inattentive subtype which has less outward symptoms.
         | 
         | What _can_ change or develop over time is the life
         | circumstances that a person with ADHD finds themselves in.
         | Circumstance can make the difference between ADHD being a
         | disorder with significant impairments vs a joyful and creative
         | existence.
         | 
         | Situations which demand executive function, like putting down
         | that mobile phone or closing youtube in favor of doing
         | something more productive are _much_ harder for people with
         | ADHD. The market built by the tech industry to transact human
         | attention for profit certainly hasn 't helped here.
         | 
         | Here's a good brief overview of ADHD:
         | https://www.adhdbitesize.com/post/understand-what-adhd-is-re...
         | 
         | Or a bite-size youtube version
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMWtGozn5jU
         | 
         | An online ADHD test which is relatable and seems fairly
         | accurate: https://totallyadd.com/do-i-have-add/
        
         | alisonkisk wrote:
         | is it ADD or is it just a common pattern of human nature?
         | 
         | Is eating sugar when it is offered a disease, or an environment
         | that is toxic to instincts that usee to suit us well?
        
           | dcchambers wrote:
           | > Is eating sugar when it is offered a disease
           | 
           | It's not, but it will lead to some (obesity, diabetes, heart
           | disease, etc).
           | 
           | In the same way, consuming infinite amounts of quick-hitting
           | and dopamine-inducing social media is not a disease, but it
           | can damage our brains and lead to "disease" in the same way
           | that sugar damages the rest of our body.
           | 
           | Again, I'm not a doctor and I have no facts/evidence to
           | share. Just my own thoughts on how things are going.
        
           | brimble wrote:
           | I'm reminded of Scott Alexanders musing re: whether someone
           | "has ADD" if they have trouble focusing on things that are
           | simply boring as fuck, like looking at spreadsheets (or
           | code...) all day every day, week, after week, after week.
           | 
           | But then if all their peers are in fact outperforming them,
           | because they're _already_ all self-medicating for ADD
           | symptoms, or have a prescription for ADD meds, so they can
           | focus on something that _most_ ordinary people would have
           | trouble focusing on... what then?
           | 
           | What's normal in a work environment that's fundamentally and
           | extremely _not normal_?
        
             | makeworld wrote:
             | Got a link to that post?
        
               | cipheredStones wrote:
               | Not the GP, but it's
               | https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-
               | much-mo...
        
             | jeffreyrogers wrote:
             | Given enough time abnormal becomes normal and everyone who
             | couldn't fit in is selected out. Several thousand years ago
             | agricultural societies were abnormal, but they allowed high
             | population densities and were better at war so they
             | dominated (except on the steppe).
             | 
             | When Henry Ford popularized the assembly line he had
             | extremely high employee turnover. People didn't like
             | working that way.
        
             | dbetteridge wrote:
             | The spice is life...
        
         | elihu wrote:
         | I think the last couple years have been especially bad. We've
         | had a pandemic that isn't 100% over that removed a lot of the
         | non-Internet interactions from most people's lives, we have a
         | major land war in Europe now that could turn into a
         | civilization-ending nuclear war at the drop of a hat, we had a
         | contentious election in the U.S. about a year and a half ago
         | that culminated in the Capital being ransacked, we've had
         | ongoing droughts, wildfires, and heat waves that will probably
         | just keep getting worse, we have supply chain disruptions, and
         | so on.
         | 
         | It's really no wonder people are paying attention to the
         | Internet, because at any moment some new calamity will be upon
         | us. (It was kind of also true for me during the Trump
         | presidency: I felt compelled to check the political news
         | multiple times a day as if somehow my personal supervision and
         | online comments would keep Trump from doing anything too
         | crazy.) I've started to wonder if I'm exhibiting ADD-like
         | symptoms, and I'm also wondering if it's not just me, that it's
         | happening to most people at the same time.
         | 
         | Maybe things will go a little bit back to normal as in-person
         | social interaction ramps back up. (I'm in the Portland area.
         | Here, Covid restrictions are basically over but a lot of people
         | are still operating in a pandemic mode. We've just now been
         | allowed to work from our cubicles again, and only a couple of
         | my coworkers actually do it on kind of a once-a-week cadence.)
         | I don't think things are going back to anything like what I'd
         | like to think of as normal, though. The world's just a really
         | turbulent place right now.
        
       | pde3 wrote:
       | Split this into two questions:
       | 
       | (1) Why do we procrastinate? (2) What is it about various
       | Internet platforms and patterns that makes them so addictive, and
       | good for procrastination?
       | 
       | For me, (1) turned out to be about not having a clear picture of
       | what exactly I needed to do next for my goals, and sometimes not
       | having enough social reinforcement and accountability for the
       | things I'm working on; (2) there are lots of tricks and accidents
       | that have made modern platforms really addictive, but one of the
       | big ones is uncertain reward. I reload all sorts of things hoping
       | for something new and interesting. Noticing that pattern is the
       | first step to damping it.
        
       | smeej wrote:
       | I had to reach a point where I admitted to myself that, as much
       | as I may wish I were a person who could handle having a
       | smartphone in my pocket, I'm not. If I have one there, it will
       | suck up time I don't want to give it. I tried putting all kinds
       | of guides in place until I just...got a flip phone that, yeah,
       | can run Android apps, but absolutely sucks to use. It doesn't
       | have a touch screen, so I have to navigate with a D pad and type
       | with T9. It's awful.
       | 
       | That's paired with a color eInk device that can also run Android
       | apps. It's wonderful for reading things that have discrete pages
       | (ebooks), but awful for anything that moves or requires
       | scrolling.
       | 
       | My personal computer sucks too. This happened totally by
       | accident, but I wound up with a machine that won't sleep
       | properly, so I have to shut the thing all the way down every time
       | I'm done using it. It's a pain to use.
       | 
       | When I reached the point where I actually wanted to change, I had
       | to make it suck to do the things I used to enjoy. I kind of envy
       | the people who can add smartphones to their lives and have their
       | lives get better. Mine got worse.
       | 
       | But at least now, when I'm looking at some free time, I don't
       | want to pull out my phone (I hate using my phone), I might want
       | to read an ebook, and I don't want to pull out my computer. I
       | wish it didn't come to this, but at least it works.
        
         | el_benhameen wrote:
         | I am much the same way. I use more of a half measure than you,
         | which is to physically remove the phone from my proximity as
         | much as possible unless I'm intentionally trying to zone out.
         | So if I'm working, the phone is in another room on silent. When
         | I'm done with work, I do a hard "screens off" time for family
         | time from 6-9 or so. That, combined with deleting fb/ig and
         | logging out of twitter (still sometimes useful for news so I
         | haven't deleted it), has helped me exercise more control over
         | my habits versus just sheer willpower.
        
           | smeej wrote:
           | I think you're in that category of people whose discipline I
           | envy/admire! Half measures are so much better at mitigating
           | the downsides of any tradeoff. I totally recommend them for
           | anyone who can use them and make them work!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | nolist_policy wrote:
         | What phone do you have and can it run osmand? There aren't many
         | android flip phones...
        
         | Crabber wrote:
         | I agree completely, the only reliable way to quit using a
         | smartphone is to stop carrying one.
         | 
         | I don't know why we apply such different thinking to digital
         | addictions than physical ones.
         | 
         | You would never tell someone who was trying to quit smoking
         | "just carry a pack of cigarettes and a lighter everywhere but
         | don't use them".
        
           | Invictus0 wrote:
           | Because we still need certain utilities on our phone, like
           | Maps and Music and Search and Camera. Those aren't the
           | problems--we still want those things, which are not addictive
           | and fruitful, but we want less of things which are addictive
           | and fruitless, like Twitter and Reddit. Cigarettes have no
           | such essential and positive utility.
        
             | smeej wrote:
             | That's why I like this phone that _can_ do those things,
             | but I really have to be sure I want to do them.
             | 
             | It's surprising how often I actually don't, though. Rarely
             | am I going anywhere I actually don't know how to go. Rarely
             | do I actually _need_ to take a photo of something (though
             | to be fair, I 've never really been into photography; this
             | would be different for people who are). I prefer quiet to
             | music (although again, admittedly, I know I'm not the norm
             | here). And not being able to search the answer to any old
             | thing whenever I want? Turns out I forget most of those
             | things by the time I get to a computer, so I guess they
             | weren't terribly important. I make more of a point of
             | trying to learn things now.
             | 
             | I don't distract myself as much as I used to. I feel like
             | I'm actually more present when I'm present because I don't
             | have anywhere else to be.
             | 
             | YMMV, but there's no perfect solution. Everything has
             | tradeoffs. You just have to choose which set you care about
             | most.
        
               | Crabber wrote:
               | >though to be fair, I've never really been into
               | photography; this would be different for people who are
               | 
               | Anyone who is seriously into photography will be carrying
               | a proper camera. The idea of professional photographers
               | using smartphone cameras is just pure marketing bullshit
               | IMO. Smartphone cameras are severely limited by physics
               | and always will be.
               | 
               | As someone who used to be heavily into photography, my
               | smartphone may as well have not even had a camera because
               | if I wanted to go out and take pictures I would bring my
               | DSLR.
        
             | Crabber wrote:
             | >Because we still need certain utilities on our phone
             | 
             | You don't "need" any of those things, humans got on with
             | life just fine without them for 100,000s of years,
             | smartphones have only existed for the last 15.
             | 
             | >Maps
             | 
             | Look it up on a computer before you go, or ask someone on
             | the street for directions. The only "benefit" having maps
             | on a phone gives you is that you can completely avoid
             | talking to people and just stare down at a screen instead.
             | 
             | >Music
             | 
             | MP3 players still exist. Or just ditch the music and be
             | present in the moment.
             | 
             | >Search
             | 
             | I have never spontaneously needed to search something that
             | couldn't wait 30 minutes until I was back at a computer.
             | 
             | >Camera
             | 
             | If you're going somewhere you know you're going to want to
             | take pictures then take a proper camera. Otherwise you
             | probably don't need one. I can't think of a single instance
             | in the past 2 years where I needed to take a picture of
             | something that actually mattered without knowing
             | beforehand.
        
       | cecilpl2 wrote:
       | Randomly reinforced dopamine hits.
       | 
       | Same reason some people play slot machines all day.
        
       | dgunay wrote:
       | For me it feels like at some point, I stopped feeling like I
       | could throw myself into hobbies that require real engagement.
       | Long video games, deep dive coding, instrument practice sessions,
       | etc.
       | 
       | Once I got a job, partner, and pets, at any moment something can
       | demand my attention. Enough times of having to abandon a
       | multiplayer game, break concentration, break my flow, and at some
       | point I just started choosing to do things that have zero
       | commitment. I still play games, but only ones that I feel I can
       | drop at a moment's notice and don't require practice. Music is a
       | faint echo of the presence it used to be in my life. The only
       | thing I still get to do every single day is code, because I have
       | to do it in order to live.
       | 
       | I also feel the loss of the "third spaces" in my life. It used to
       | be a few select hangout spots with my friends, then it was the
       | rest of the college campus. I've lived in a car dependent
       | hellscape my entire life and it only got worse when I moved to
       | the US capital of suburban sprawl for work. None of my friends
       | live within ten miles of me anymore.
        
       | annadane wrote:
       | I think the problem is I don't waste enough time on the internet
       | (where 'waste' is a loaded word) - there's so much on there and
       | yet I'm relegated to the same 5 or 10 pages I always go to
        
       | 65 wrote:
       | If you live in the boring suburbs where you have to drive
       | everywhere to do things and see people, then yeah there's
       | basically nothing to do except watch television and browse the
       | internet.
       | 
       | My general theory of existence is that your environment makes up
       | a huge portion of your overall wellbeing. Boredom, happiness,
       | depression, anxiety - it all comes from your environment.
       | 
       | If you set your life up in such a way that the only thing to do
       | is browse the internet, then yeah... you're going to waste a lot
       | of time on the internet. Trying to block the sites, to resist the
       | temptation, etc. is not going to work if there's nothing else to
       | fill your time with.
        
         | rakejake wrote:
         | +1. I came to the same conclusion. The pandemic sped up the
         | timeline of my mental processes and illustrated all the holes
         | in my model of the world. That way, I am glad this lockdown
         | happened before I made any life-altering and hard-to-reverse
         | decisions.
        
         | davesque wrote:
         | This comment sums up what I was trying to say in another
         | comment quite nicely, except in a more direct and practical
         | way. Sometimes, I feel like this boring dystopia you describe
         | is found in so many places as to seem inescapable. It's
         | something intrinsic to modern life. Every building looks the
         | same. Every road looks the same. Everyone's clothes and
         | haircuts look the same. Everyone has the same attitude. Why? As
         | Steve Ballmer would say, "Corporations, corporations,
         | corporations, corporations." What do we get when the entire
         | world, both physically and mentally, is shaped by the same
         | style of hierarchy whose sole purpose is to extract human
         | effort from the population for cash while ignoring the long
         | term cost?
        
       | leodriesch wrote:
       | I've been thinking about this for some time, since so many people
       | (including me) seem to struggle with this, even while being
       | completely aware of our behavior.
       | 
       | I think legislation should force social networks to:
       | 
       | - have a reverse chronological timeline for your network
       | 
       | - optionally disable any algorithmic recommendations
       | 
       | Social Media companies are mostly unrestricted in the current
       | legislation system while they are trying their hardest to
       | maximize user engagement.
       | 
       | Just like the use of certain drugs this something some people
       | can't responsively deal with themselves, hence it should be
       | regulated.
       | 
       | And probably my idea is not very fleshed out, but I think
       | something has to be done, and it has to come from states as the
       | companies themselves can't be held responsible.
        
         | greggman3 wrote:
         | I find myself wasting too much time on the internet and I don't
         | spend any of it on social media. I waste most of it on HN.
        
       | ngamboa wrote:
        
       | escapedmoose wrote:
       | I used to spend an embarrassing amount of time on the social
       | media, not really enjoying myself. I tried taking breaks for a
       | month or so at a time, but would get sucked right back in because
       | of some dumb meme or hype train or something.
       | 
       | Then after a while something snapped. I realized everything I saw
       | online was extremely boring and shallow, and I had no desire to
       | see it. I didn't log out of any of my socials, and I still have
       | the apps installed, I just have 0 desire to use them. Same goes
       | for news sites and blogs (I used to read an article or two a day
       | on at least a dozen sites). I don't know what in my brain
       | changed, but I'm glad it did because now I get about 4 hours of
       | every day back.
       | 
       | Most of what's online is just so pointless, but even worse, it's
       | not very enjoyable, and is often anxiety-inducing. I'd rather
       | literally stare at the ceiling and just let my mind wander.
       | Hacker News is the last site I still frequent, but even this has
       | seemed extremely dull lately.
        
         | swah wrote:
         | Do you still have interest in other things like reading, movies
         | or exercising? Or its a general dullness?
        
       | bloaf wrote:
       | Why do you feel like not being productive all the time is a moral
       | failing?
        
         | kataklasm wrote:
         | For me at least I feel like there's a difference between being
         | unproductive due to doomscrolling $socialMedia and being
         | unproductive due to a more 'traditional' way of "wasting" (as
         | in not being productive) time. Spending time on a grassfield in
         | the sun is just as unproductive as doomscrolling, yet it feels
         | a whole lot different. One feels abusive and abrasive to the
         | soul; the other is relaxing and soothing. All while being
         | unproductive. There may be a lot more layers to this
         | productivity conundrum than being just a productivity boolean.
        
         | LigmaYC wrote:
         | Do you not feel bad when wasting time? Especially if you're
         | just refreshing youtube and instagram, as the blog states.
        
       | hintymad wrote:
       | The cure does not come from discipline but from finding things
       | that are more fun to do.
       | 
       | I'd rather read a book or tinker with a program instead of
       | wasting time on the internet, but somehow my phone alone still
       | recorded at least more than three hours of use and usually
       | sometimes more than four. Reflecting upon this, I identified two
       | reasons for such irrational behavior. First, I was afraid of
       | getting carried away from reading a book, while checking timeline
       | of twitter seems non-committing. Second, this little dose of
       | dopamine from reading a short update from the internet seems
       | really addictive.
       | 
       | Luckily, I find a treatment that seems working:
       | 
       | 1. I realize that reading a book or a long article is not as
       | addictive as before, for whatever reason. In addition, I use a
       | timer to remind myself just in case.
       | 
       | 2. I surround myself with many types of books, videos, articles,
       | magazines, and some exercise routines and equipment. Whenever I
       | have an urge to take a break, I first ask myself if I really need
       | to get distracted. It's amazing how awareness itself can reduce
       | the urge to check updates from the internet. If I do want to take
       | a break, I pick the book/video/article/exercise that's most
       | appealing at the moment. This little trick works quite well. My
       | phone usage has been consistently below 2 hours, with nearly half
       | of them coming from reading Kindle and Apple Books. I finished
       | multiple books in the past few months, including tombs like
       | Programming Rust, and Isaacson's Leonardo Da Vinci.
       | 
       | I wish I could spend even less time on social media, but at least
       | I can see concrete improvement now.
        
       | holyknight wrote:
       | Everything on the internet is made to be as addictable as
       | possible. Anyways i don't "love" social media, but I just want to
       | have free time to spare, but between my job and my wife only
       | Friday nights are the only time i can really enjoy and i mostly
       | don't enjoy it as much because I'm exhausted from the week and I
       | just want to sleep. I use social media in between my daily life
       | as a guilty pleasure to feel free to waste some time in some
       | mindless shit without having to plan anything.
        
       | DanHulton wrote:
       | I'm surprised nobody's mentioned ADHD yet. It's not clear-cut or
       | anything, but I recently just went through diagnosis and testing
       | and mentioned this behavior. For me, I tend to resort to this
       | behavior when I can't summon the focus to work on things I know I
       | SHOULD be doing, so I end up scrolling for hours instead, because
       | there's so much less inertia to overcome there.
       | 
       | It may be worth talking with your family doctor about. If so,
       | there's medication and/or targeted coaching that can help
       | significantly.
        
       | devmor wrote:
       | I am addicted to absorbing information. Always have been. I had
       | textbooks about random subjects as a kid (my favorite was a
       | geology book mainly on Groundwater), and my most used computer
       | program before my family got internet access was an interactive
       | encyclopedia.
        
         | emadabdulrahim wrote:
         | I'm curious, do you feel the motives for your voracious
         | information digest are positive or negative? By that I mean, do
         | you feel you're making up for something by wanting to learn as
         | much as you can about different subjects? perhaps some kind of
         | insecurity? Or is it just good old curiosity about the world
         | and trying to be less ignorant each passing day?
        
       | grappler wrote:
       | I set a points threshold on what hacker news stories I see. This
       | article broke through that threshold even though it is not worth
       | my time, so the thing I'm going to do immediately after posting
       | this comment is raise the threshold some more.
       | 
       | That's the action that should always follow, any time something
       | gets through the filter. Make the filter more restrictive. Over
       | time, that should clear out the low value things.
        
         | ineedasername wrote:
         | Out of curiosity, what's your threshold?
        
       | goldenshale wrote:
       | I wonder if this is why the internet hasn't led to the dramatic
       | increase in productivity that one would have predicted a global
       | communications network would have produced? Instead we are
       | turning ourselves into mice with a dopamine feed on tap.
       | 
       | Maybe we need to find ways to value creation far more than
       | consumption. Missing new and cool ideas is peanuts in comparison
       | to creating something from nothing, whether that be art,
       | technology, or friendship.
        
       | trophycase wrote:
       | Addiction/Coping Mechanism
        
       | swayvil wrote:
       | Sometimes I have intelligent conversations about stuff that
       | matters to me. I really like that.
       | 
       | Admittedly, it can be like sifting a public beach for pennies.
       | 
       | And 99.999% of the time I end up talking to people who can't see
       | a paving brick if it's wedged under their eyelid.
       | 
       | But I suspect that a really eloquent style can penetrate even the
       | thickest. Well, I suspect it less lately.
       | 
       | And I just like talking to people.
        
       | fleddr wrote:
       | When you're past the denial stage, you're already halfway there.
       | Glass half full and such.
       | 
       | From the blog it is clear that the real problem is a lack of a
       | meaningful physical/social life, as the person indicates they
       | have no friends, hobbies, etc.
       | 
       | Therefore, none of the tips on cutting down screen time are
       | likely to address the fundamental issue. If you free up time this
       | way but have no better purpose for this time, you still end up in
       | the same spot.
       | 
       | So you need to rebuild your physical/social life and I have a
       | solution at hand: volunteer work.
       | 
       | An animal shelter is incredibly fun and rewarding work. Another
       | thing I tried is to help out the elderly. Where I live you can
       | volunteer to "walk" them. You can chose the commitment in hours
       | per week. These people are very old, typically lonely, and
       | immobile. So I go outside with them, push the wheelchair whilst
       | chatting with them.
       | 
       | I figured this would actually kind of suck, a job nobody wants to
       | do. I was totally wrong, it's awesome. They are so incredibly
       | grateful and the chats are tons of fun. They're full of stories.
       | In case you're socially awkward (I personally am not), this is a
       | safe way to practice just making casual conversation.
       | 
       | The great thing about volunteer work is that you will be
       | universally accepted and LOVED, there's no anxiety of being
       | rejected like you might have in making new friends.
       | 
       | The reward is infinite. I'm a stoic but truly there is nothing in
       | this world more rich and rewarding than the response you get from
       | helping others. You can see it in their eyes. This tiny
       | commitment from your side means the world to them. A beacon of
       | light in darkness.
       | 
       | Your work changes lives and you get to feel good about yourself.
       | Your time has meaning and you have meaning. Volunteer work is
       | also a great proxy to get to know the community, make new
       | friends, etc.
       | 
       | Do it. Look it up in the local directory and just try it.
        
       | rossjudson wrote:
       | During the pandemic I realized that I love power outages, and we
       | should have more of them. Make them long enough that all the
       | phone batteries run out.
        
       | notreallyserio wrote:
       | I waste time on the internet because I don't have enough
       | contiguous blocks of time to do anything productive or
       | interesting outside of work (which is boring and repetitive and
       | not automatable). I'm hoping to retire early so I can spend time
       | on better things.
        
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