[HN Gopher] The piranha problem in social psychology / behaviora... ___________________________________________________________________ The piranha problem in social psychology / behavioral economics (2017) Author : Tomte Score : 38 points Date : 2022-05-06 17:20 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu) (TXT) w3m dump (statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu) | notahacker wrote: | The problem with the piranha analogy is you can apply the _large | number of possible causes and effects which occur in different | directions_ to pretty much any science, social or otherwise. | There are at any one time a very large number of pathogens | competing for the attention of the immune system all associated | with overlapping symptoms and thus many competing hypotheses | about the cause of a particular ailment, but this doesn 't make | the study of medicine futile. | | Even if you've got competing parties actively trying to nudge | people in a particular direction, it doesn't mean there is no | discernible effect; increases in political polarisation and | emotional attachment to brands can be observed even as people | consciously attempt to nudge other people in broadly opposite | directions. | | This doesn't mean the social psychology and behavioural economics | experiments hypotheses are necessarily good ones or the | experiments well constructed. But complex systems and competing | hypotheses are present in all science and are what controlled | experiments and statistical controls are for... | dash2 wrote: | There's a related criticism made by some economists about | psychology: the 1-800 critique.[1] The pattern is that | psychologists claim that effect X exists, e.g. "hostile media | bias" or "social identity" or "priming". But they don't say | _when_ it will apply, i.e. in what circumstances. So the critique | was, these guys need to put a 1-800 number on their papers, so | you can call them and ask, hey will your effect apply in my | situation? | | [1] | http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.199.... | [deleted] | booboofixer wrote: | Always thought the 'nudges' often referred to in these | experiments would only work if participants were unaware of their | existence. If participants become aware of the fact that they're | being 'nudged' one way or the other, then their reaction will | depend on whether or not they have issues with authority, whether | they value their freedom enough to fight for their right to have | an independent opinion free from manipulation by other actors, | and probably a few other factors. | krageon wrote: | Most normal people can be told they are being manipulated and | it will still work. The percentage that will actually hold the | thought that they should resist in their mind without losing | focus is very small, in my experience. | shanusmagnus wrote: | Many of the successful nudges are things that people don't | _want_ to resist, it's just taking frictions away, e.g., organ | donation, saving in your 401k, registering to vote, not eating | garbage, etc. Stuff people would generally express interest in | doing. | shanusmagnus wrote: | This was a great article -- would love recommendations of | anything else in a similar vein! | lupire wrote: | The comment about "color of a box vs its volume" is even better | than the "piranha" metaphor. | tbm57 wrote: | Somebody's reaction to the color blue is probably socially | constructed, like the author suggests. There's several | generations of popular culture in the US that reinforce the idea | that 'blue equals sad.' | | But someone's reaction to a smile is on a more instinctual level. | I'm pretty sure that smiles carry a universal meaning for people | going as young as infancy. So, it doesn't seem misguided to look | for these effects that happen outside of a particular cultural | context. | barry-cotter wrote: | > Somebody's reaction to the color blue is probably socially | constructed, like the author suggests. | | On some level this is obviously true. The important question is | on what level? Blue being male coded, socially construed. Blue | being perceived as colder probably not, which leans me towards | sadness association being real. Something to test. | | On a related note I listened to an Agnes Callard podcast we | here she used small girls as examples of experts, on | prettiness, as that's the thing they care about | disproportionately much. Thus the fact that they agree pink and | purple are the prettiest colors is evidence this is in some | real way true. I thought that was interesting as my son's | favorite colors at the time were purple and mauve. He's now | moved on to pink. I'm persuaded that something like an | objective ranking of color pleasantness exists. Obviously you | can self-modify to like things, like architects self-modify to | find Brutalism and other crimes a against beauty good, or how | people grow to like coffee. | [deleted] ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-05-06 23:00 UTC)