[HN Gopher] Sun-like star found in the region of the sky that ha... ___________________________________________________________________ Sun-like star found in the region of the sky that has most radio signals Author : bewalt Score : 49 points Date : 2022-05-06 21:38 UTC (1 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.cambridge.org) (TXT) w3m dump (www.cambridge.org) | spindle wrote: | It's not just the region of the sky with the most radio signals, | it's the region of the sky with the signal that's (arguably) most | likely to be produced by intelligence, of the ones we've noticed | so far - the "WOW!" signal. | abemiller wrote: | Yea this title is not on the mark. it's not a region with the | "most" radio signals at all. The concern of the paper is only | about the Wow! signal. | bewalt wrote: | It was tough to keep the title accurate since I had to change | it with the character limit. Thanks for clarifying for | everyone! | pvg wrote: | The original title _An approximation to determine the | source of the WOW! Signal_ seems to fit the limit just | fine. | callamdelaney wrote: | We are definitely not alone. The great filter, in my opinion, | does not exist. It's only the vastness of space and the | relatively short time a civilization produces radio signals that | makes it appear this way. | nine_k wrote: | Any civilization that realizes that they are not alone quickly | stops bleeding RF signals to outer space, or at least learns to | mask them as natural. | | Chances that two civilizations, if they detect each other, | would be on the same level of development are slim. And once a | less technologically advanced civilization meets a more | technologically advanced one, game is over soon. Ask Aztecs, or | Sioux, or pick any other historical example. | bpodgursky wrote: | That's a pretty shallow view of the Great Filter. | | Your implicit assumption is that not a single other intelligent | species decided to harness the universe by, for example, | consuming stars for their raw matter, or building Dyson spheres | to black out entire sections of the sky. | | It is imo on you to explain why there's a hard cap on the | exponential growth of intelligent life that prevents it from | EVER reorganizing the universe in its own image. Not 99% of the | time -- that's not enough for these purposes. | Ekaros wrote: | The truth might be than physics are harsh mistress and there | is no way to cheat. Thus actually working extra system space | colonization is just not something that we or anyone else can | do. Maybe even technology to do stellar engineering is out of | reach. | kevin_thibedeau wrote: | Space colonization is best done by robotic ships. These | could very well be plying the galaxy and just staying away | from primitive life. | jhgb wrote: | You should still be able to see them, even from distance, | if they have any reasonable power output. Stealth doesn't | really work in space. | zabzonk wrote: | > Space colonization is best done by robotic ships. | | But why do it? If you send a robot to (say) Alpha | Centauri what have you actually acheived, at probably | enormous cost? | bpodgursky wrote: | Ok, but to be clear, this is an argument that there IS a | "Great Filter". It's just a Great Filter that is in front | of us rather than behind us. | SemanticStrengh wrote: | no this is a filter to technological progress/expansion, | not a filter to life appearance and sustainability in the | universe.. | Jach wrote: | It seems some people in this thread need a reminder of | what the Great Filter is: | https://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson/greatfilter.html | elorant wrote: | The Great Filter can be a myriad of things. From how improbable | life is to the hostility of the Universe. A magnetar has a | hiccup and it sterilizes everything in a fifty light year | radius. There are a shit ton of things out there that could | eradicate life. | danlugo92 wrote: | Wikipedia says closest magnetar is 50k light years from | earth... | cosmiccatnap wrote: | Sadly 1800 light years away means transmission to 2MASS | 19281982-2640123 is impractical at best but observing it more to | determine if other techno signals originate is a worthwhile | endeavor. | | The ghosts of a distant civilization may still hold clues and | even the knowledge that 1800 years ago we were potentially not | alone is still an existential epiphany we are all hoping for. | stephbu wrote: | Maybe in 1,700yrs they'll see us... | vinni2 wrote: | 1800 years is a not that long in the cosmic scale. | lostmsu wrote: | 3600 years later: sorry, your bug report was closed due to | inactivity. | teekert wrote: | 3600 for a return message. But think about what we looked | like 1800 years ago and what will we look like in 1800 years? | Will we still use radio even? | Ekaros wrote: | I would guess that if we are technologically advanced | species we will. Though there is really question could we | discern those signals. Probably there would be push to | maximise the usage of available spectrum and then minimize | use of power and probably even look into massive mimo. | bdamm wrote: | Or would we have transitioned to highly directed laser | pulses, or perhaps using a medium not yet discovered? | Since we are still fumbling in the dark about fundamental | physics, having no grand unifying theory between large | and small, or even much progress in understanding | gravity, it is entirely possible that we wouldn't be | using radio because we found something much better. | mhh__ wrote: | Other than as an inception agreement for a cult (has someone | already written that book, other than L Ron Hubbard) 1800 | years is unfortunately a very long time in the scale of any | human project. | UnpossibleJim wrote: | I guess it would depend on the ship... Though I am reading | Rendezvous With Rama right now (my first time), which has | completely changed my imagining of space ships. So much of | sci-fi owes so much to Artur C. Clarke. I knew, but I | didn't realize until I read more and more =/ | TedDoesntTalk wrote: | > guess it would depend on the ship | | After 72 generations on a ship, it's possible the | occupants won't even know they are on a ship | (fictionalized by Brian Aldiss in the excellent book | "Non-Stop"). | | And if they know they're on a ship, they probably won't | care to leave. After all, it is home and will have been | for ages. | evo_9 wrote: | Reading the Abstract I can't help but wonder if their scientists | discovered the same thing about us and pointed their 'eyes' (or | whatever!) this way. Fun to think about. | beaned wrote: | This part is intriguing to me: | | > In fact, if we analyse the history of (the few) radio signals | that humanity have sent to several targets in the hope of | contacting a civilization, none of those transmissions had a long | duration or were repeatedly sent for a long time. [...] An | extraterrestrial civilization could have opted to behave in a | similar manner. | jmyeet wrote: | Not the first time I've said this but it's highly unlikely that | we'll detect technological civilizations through radio emissions. | We've had this kind of radio emission but it's incredibly brief | so for Earth, you'd have to be listening for a few decades over | the billions of years Earth has existed. That's incredibly | unlikely. | | The far more likely detection method is IR signatures, | specifically from Dyson Swarms. A Dyson Swarm is not a rigid | sphere (a confusion caused in part by the original name "Dyson | Sphere"). It is a collection of orbitals with the intent of | making full use of a star's energy output. The beauty of this is | it's all rather low-tech needing little more than solar power, | stainless steel level materials science and (this is the big one | but is an engineering problem not a science one) getting access | to basic raw materials. | | Just like a cloud looks solid despite being water droplets, a | complete Dyson Swarm would be the same. The visible light would | be blocked out. | | But here's where the IR part comes in. The only way to dissipate | heat in space is to radiate it away. A habitat will have to do | this. At any reasonable temperature the signature of that | radiated heat is as IR radiation determined by the temperature of | the radiating object. That's physics. | | So what's more likely: 1. Detecting a few decades of radio | emissions or 2. the IR signature of what would likely be millions | of years? | | So I applaud any investigation into the wow! signal just like I | do of FRBs. We should understand likely causes but technological | life? It almost certainly isn't. | slimsag wrote: | No stake in this game, but your likeliness assumption depends | on the idea that a civilization _could_ get to the point of | creating a Dyson Swarm. If civilizations are statistically | likely to destroy themselves before then, 'detecting a few | decades of radio emissions' could be the only scenario. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-05-06 23:00 UTC)