[HN Gopher] Vitamin D and Depression (2020)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Vitamin D and Depression (2020)
        
       Author : pmoriarty
       Score  : 147 points
       Date   : 2022-05-08 17:34 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jokoon wrote:
       | I recently wondered if bad dental hygiene can increase or cause
       | more depression.
       | 
       | Since oral hygiene can cause bad stuff in the stomach, maybe it
       | can also lead to bad stuff in the digestive system...
        
       | jghefner wrote:
       | Vitamin D supplementation didn't affect my depression. Going for
       | walks to get more sunlight made it worse.
       | 
       | I understand that not everything works for everyone and I wish
       | those around me, including my doctor, did as well so they'd stop
       | blaming me when their "cure" doesn't work on me.
        
         | pcurve wrote:
         | Would you mind sharing in what ways going for walks made it
         | worse for you?
        
         | jamal-kumar wrote:
         | If going out and walking in the sun made it worse I can only
         | imagine where you live must be pretty depressing.
         | 
         | Portland?
        
           | jghefner wrote:
           | This is what I'm talking about. The idea that "going for a
           | walk and getting sunlight is good for depression" is so
           | universally unchallengable that I must live somewhere
           | terrible if it doesn't work for me.
        
             | chasebank wrote:
             | Book a two week long float down the middle fork of the
             | Salmon river and let me know how you feel after.
        
             | jamal-kumar wrote:
             | Yeah, I don't know anyone happy there.
             | 
             | In before excuses - Leave
        
           | resfirestar wrote:
           | There can be underlying anxiety issues that make going out
           | like that quite a stressful event, especially at first, and
           | even traumatic if something bad does end up happening. Or
           | sensory processing issues associated with autism spectrum
           | disorders that make bright sunlight feel unpleasant. Not to
           | downplay the general idea: certainly for most people who feel
           | a little blue, or even crappy enough for long enough to
           | qualify for a diagnosis of major depression, getting out more
           | is likely to be helpful on its own (and that's why therapists
           | generally recommend it). But to the GP's point, the lack of
           | distinction between people with a more ordinary (but quite
           | painful!) set of problems and people with a bunch of
           | comorbidities that they're likely not aware of is really
           | frustrating, especially if they're using the internet to look
           | for ideas and find a bunch of people generalizing the easy
           | fix that cured their depression to the entire population.
        
       | docmechanic wrote:
       | Off topic, but perhaps of interest to anyone dealing with
       | depression. Twenty five years or so ago, someone recommended that
       | I try St. John's Wort. I had a negative reaction - bad skin rash
       | - but the Mayo Clinic mentions that some studies show it "can be
       | effective for treating mild to moderate depression."
       | 
       | https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-st-johns-wort/a...
        
       | lordentropy wrote:
       | Daily morning and afternoon exposure to bright light might
       | actually be more important to reducing depression than direct
       | vitamin D supplementation. Low vitamin D might just be an
       | indicator that you are not getting enough sunlight. Sunlight also
       | affects melatonin and serotonin levels, and synchronizes your
       | Circadian rhythm. Not sure why that article doesn't talk about
       | Seasonal affective disorder (SAD), and how bright light therapy
       | is considered an effective treatment for it.
        
         | kingcharles wrote:
         | I just went over 8 years without seeing the sun (jail). I
         | wonder what the long term effects are?
        
         | adfjalkfja wrote:
         | Had a consult with a sleep doctor, he stressed the importance
         | of getting out for morning light for at least 30 minutes with
         | no sunglasses.
        
         | juve1996 wrote:
         | Anecdotally agree with this. I have vitamin D deficiency, was
         | given 50,000 IU a week vitamin D to get it up. Never worked.
         | 
         | Went to the beach one week and got blood tested again and my
         | vitamin D levels climbed significantly. Now I make it a point
         | to get outside and sunlight
        
           | treeman79 wrote:
           | Had super low Vit D. Was stuck in bed for a year. A few
           | months of Vit D and a few other diet and supplements changes
           | and I was out kayaking every weekend.
           | 
           | My experience anyway
        
             | donthellbanme wrote:
             | The heaviest man in Mexico was bedridden for years. He was
             | depressed, but besides being humongous, and trapped in a
             | bed; one of his biggest complains was muscle aches.
             | 
             | A doctor gave him vitamin D supplements and he said the
             | pain went away.
             | 
             | It made a bit of sence to me, but the amount of food this
             | guy consumed daily was staggering. I just wouldn't think a
             | person would be deficient in D with the amount of animal
             | products this man consumed. I just assumed even though he
             | never saw the light of day for 15 years.
             | 
             | My point is it just suprised me.
             | 
             | Antidotially, I have been depressed (dysthymia--low level)
             | for a good 30 years, and found sunlight didn't help me. I
             | don't eat a lot, but i'm not a vegetarian either.
             | 
             | I actually feel better during the winter. I do have
             | allergies though.
             | 
             | According to my doctor, all he ever said about depression
             | is "All my patients are different. Oh, my fee will be
             | $----. Your depression is situational.". I know he is
             | partially right. (He doesn't overcharge me compared to the
             | horror stories I have heard here. I just believe most
             | psychotropic drugs should not require more one office
             | visit, especially if you are on a low dose, and not abusing
             | them.)
        
             | interactivecode wrote:
             | What dose and diet changes did you do?
        
               | treeman79 wrote:
               | 3,000u daily. Switched to AIP diet.
               | 
               | Six months earlier had started. Started magnesium, b12,
               | fish oil, Vit E.
               | 
               | Now I take a 5000u/k2 combo.
               | 
               | Now on LDN in addition That seems to be the final major
               | piece to fully normal life.
        
           | csdreamer7 wrote:
           | > was given 50,000 IU a week vitamin D to get it up.
           | 
           | It should have gone up significantly. I wonder if your body
           | has a problem with Vit D absorption. I was put on the same
           | dose of vit d for a treatment and I felt it within 20
           | minutes.
        
             | chrisco255 wrote:
             | Is vitamin D fat soluble? If so, pretty sure it needs to be
             | consumed with fat. That's partly why it's common in milk.
        
               | Jtsummers wrote:
               | It is fat soluble, but it doesn't _need_ to be consumed
               | with fat. It 's believed that that will help improve
               | uptake, though. (I don't, I take it in the mornings long
               | before my first meal and that seems to be effective for
               | me based on my test results.)
        
               | chrisco255 wrote:
               | https://www.jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672%2814%290146
               | 8-3...
               | 
               | "The mean peak (12-hour) plasma vitamin D-3 level after
               | the dose was 32% (95% CI 11% to 52%) greater in subjects
               | consuming fat-containing compared with fat-free meals
               | (P=0.003)."
        
               | nanidin wrote:
               | It's common in milk because it helps with calcium
               | absorption.
        
           | trompetenaccoun wrote:
           | A lot of modern "problems" can be solved this way. The term
           | _koyaanisqatsi_ comes to mind, life out of balance.
        
           | geoduck14 wrote:
           | >Went to the beach one week and got blood tested again and my
           | vitamin D levels climbed significantly.
           | 
           | Well, I think I just justified my beach vacation. Thanks!
        
           | hammock wrote:
           | The point was that sunlight does more than raise vitamin D,
           | not that it's better than supplementation at raising vitamin
           | D.
        
         | annamargot wrote:
         | Latitude matters though. The farther north you are the more
         | time in the sun you'd need. In some far north places, the sun
         | you do get is not strong enough to get any Vit D.
         | 
         | http://web.archive.org/web/20210302053343/https://jaoa.org/a...
         | 
         | https://www.grassrootshealth.net/document/sunshine-calendar/
        
           | thinkingemote wrote:
           | Indeed, the UK which is further north than the majority of
           | Canada's population has effective vitamin D from the Sun only
           | from March to September. Spring Equinox to autumn equinox
           | basically. The sun is too low even though it might be much
           | warmer than lower latitudes!
        
             | noneeeed wrote:
             | Yurp. I live in the south of England and even here I take
             | vit D for pretty much that time period or I end up with
             | little to no energy. I always make sure to go outside as
             | much as I can, but when the sun is coming up at 8am and has
             | gone down by 6pm it's pretty hard to get enough daylight
             | and also work.
        
         | AnthonBerg wrote:
         | Sunlight's effects on body chemistry also have a damping effect
         | on inflammation. It's a funny thing.
         | 
         | Sunlight has an impact on many chemical processes in and on the
         | body. One example: Our skin is coated with a bunch of
         | chemicals. There's a number of different acidic chemicals.
         | These are known as the "acid mantle":
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mantle
         | 
         | One of these substances is _urocanic acid_. The body
         | manufactures it as the trans-isoform. UV light - as in sunlight
         | - causes it to change into _cis-_ urocanic acid. (Ultraviolet-
         | induced isomerization.)
         | 
         | Cis-urocanic acid fits a certain serotonin receptor - type
         | 5-HT2A. Cis-urocanic acid is a 5-HT2A agonist. That receptor is
         | known to be profoundly immunomodulatory.
         | 
         | It's super interesting! There are some recent papers on it like
         | " Cis-urocanic acid, a sunlight-induced immunosuppressive
         | factor, activates immune suppression via the 5-HT2A receptor" -
         | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17085585/
         | 
         | "Molecular basis for cis-urocanic acid as a 5-HT2A receptor
         | agonist" -
         | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960894X0...
         | 
         | This is absolutely fascinating. I think people take me as a
         | crackpot when I point to these papers. These are just simple
         | and solid papers from molecular biology :)
        
           | honkdaddy wrote:
           | > That receptor is known to be profoundly immunomodulatory
           | 
           | Any change for a layman's explanation on what that means?
           | This seems super fascinating but admittedly above my
           | understanding.
        
             | lisper wrote:
             | immunomodulatory (immuno-modulatory) = modulates (i.e.
             | controls) the immune system
        
           | supertofu wrote:
           | Anecdata: I grew up in LA. I was always relatively healthy.
           | Moved to NYC. Developed autoimmune disease by my 6th year in
           | NYC.
           | 
           | I often wonder if I would have developed the disease if I had
           | stayed in LA.
        
             | pram wrote:
             | I think changing location does have a huge effect.
             | Personally when I go to LA or SF (from Texas) I get sick
             | 100% of the time, without fail.
        
               | Tijdreiziger wrote:
               | For some reason I was often sick when I lived in
               | Stockholm (Sweden). A friend there mentioned having the
               | same problem.
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | Sunlight exposure also stimulates nitric oxide production,
           | which is important for circulatory system health.
        
           | desro wrote:
           | Thank you for this fascinating comment! I can't wait to read
           | through all of your links.
        
           | gabereiser wrote:
           | You, sir, just blew my mind. I have some reading material to
           | go through. This is fascinating indeed!!
        
           | BiteCode_dev wrote:
           | And yet lots of dermatologists will tell you to avoid
           | sunlight.
           | 
           | The medical community is full of contradictions.
        
             | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
             | Until recently not going out much wasn't a big factor.
             | 
             | I've been feeling sicker than usual lately. Stupid amount
             | of rain in NSW. Went out yesterday morning on a bright
             | sunny day and suddenly I felt much better.
        
             | herodoturtle wrote:
             | Everything in moderation.
             | 
             | EDIT: Except lava.
        
               | BiteCode_dev wrote:
               | At first I read "except Java"
        
               | blep_ wrote:
               | Lowercase L looks like capital i in some fonts.
               | 
               | Clearly it's Iava, the Latin word for Java. Quidquid Iava
               | quondam scribum, omni currum, sed delenda est.
        
               | _Algernon_ wrote:
               | Still true
        
           | SnowHill9902 wrote:
           | It's actually quite reasonable and intuitive that an integral
           | part of our environment i.e. the sun is beneficial or at
           | least has modulatory effects on ourselves. It's too much a
           | reductionist approach to think sunlight -> bad because of
           | it's immediate associations with some types of skin cancers.
        
         | anoplus wrote:
         | I am thinking the same, and in a midst of self experiment where
         | I ensure I get a decent dose of just seeing the world in bright
         | daylight. Week into it and my sleep feels pretty solid. Easy to
         | avoid daylight when working indoors all day.
        
         | jollybean wrote:
         | Came here to say this:
         | 
         | VD may be it, or even indirectly a measure of 'not getting
         | outside' enough.
         | 
         | Even the sunlight may not be it, literally a walk in the woods
         | might be providing the effect.
         | 
         | Or rather 'spending too much time in our own minds' etc..
        
           | digisign wrote:
           | Bright, direct light seems to be a major component, which is
           | not what most people think of being in the "woods." See:
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31306477
        
       | ahmedfromtunis wrote:
       | Maybe the relation is not as direct as we might think at first.
       | 
       | Maybe the vitamin D deficiency is keeping people from going out
       | more, which makes them feel isolated, not engaged fully with
       | their friends and family which, in turn, pushes them to
       | depression if they're prone to it.
       | 
       | And that may explain why it seems that, as the writers of this
       | paper mentioned, when some of the subjects get vitamin D the
       | depression goes away. This can be caused by the effect of the
       | intake on their ability to gain their more active way of life.
        
       | jimhefferon wrote:
       | I live pretty far north. For months at a time here there is
       | basically no sunlight. Sometimes people try to sell you
       | artificial light of one kind or another. Do they work?
        
         | SapporoChris wrote:
         | Some UV lamps have been shown to help the body make Vitamin D.
         | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2846322/
         | 
         | I would recommend checking to see if you're actually getting
         | low Vitamin D level during the winter and talk to a doctor to
         | get their opinion on best treatment.
        
         | drited wrote:
         | My understanding is that 10000 lux bulbs are accepted treatment
         | for SAD. I live in a dull country and bought one despite not
         | suffering from SAD. Anecdotally I find it great to help wake up
         | in the dark winter mornings.
        
       | tkiolp4 wrote:
       | I'm from Portugal. I've been living in Germany for 3 years. Last
       | winter I was feeling very tired when walking, even dizzy. Doctor
       | said I got very low levels of vitamin D. I never felt depressed,
       | though.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | SirensOfTitan wrote:
       | Interestingly the fix to my seasonal affective disorder was a
       | move a couple years ago into an apartment with no blinds and tons
       | of sun in the morning (our previous place had black out blinds).
       | We never got to adding blinds, and we have no intention to at
       | this point--I wake up with sunrise naturally nowadays around 6am
       | and haven't had SAD since.
       | 
       | I'm of the impression that black out blinds are generally poor
       | for sleep hygiene (unless you're in a really bright place and
       | they're a necessity), as they disrupt some of the most natural
       | and most potent zeitgebers available. That isn't to say that a
       | knowledgeable and enterprising person couldn't employ black out
       | blinds when crafting their sleep environment, but most people
       | won't balance the different influencing factors thoughtfully.
        
         | ta988 wrote:
         | Depends, they can hide streetlight too which can be disturbing
         | sleep pretty intensely...
        
       | hirundo wrote:
       | I'm a remote worker. After an early morning standup I go outside
       | and do yardwork in a big yard for a half hour to an hour,
       | whenever I can. This is a pleasure that I've come to defend
       | fiercely. When I sit back down at the keyboard my improved
       | attitude and energy are such that I believe I make up that time
       | in productivity before lunch. Don't know how much of that benefit
       | is from increased vitamin D, from the forest bath, or from the
       | exercise oxygenating my neurons. I doubt I could replace it with
       | a pill.
        
       | ralusek wrote:
       | Sunlight and gardening have had such a dramatic impact on the way
       | that I feel, it's unbelievable.
        
         | alleskleber wrote:
         | For me sunlight and some light exercise everyday were a game
         | changer. I had tried Vitamin D supplements (1000 IU daily)
         | before but there was barely any noticable effect.
        
           | floppydiskette wrote:
           | I don't think that's enough, I needed 5k daily before it
           | started working. My blood tests all come back in the correct
           | range now.
        
             | k__ wrote:
             | Good to know.
             | 
             | I was diagnosed with low VitD and they said I should take
             | like 1k-2k, but I didn't feel much.
        
           | stjohnswarts wrote:
           | 1000 is actually way below what you need probably, my doc put
           | me on 2500 a day and it wasn't enough, I've moved to 5000 and
           | been "normal" level ever since for several years for my
           | annual checkout/blood/urine tests. If you have brown/black
           | skin it can be even more, but better to start low and figure
           | out what is enough under observation of a doctor.
        
       | throckmortra wrote:
       | My first winter in NYC was very rough and I didn't understand why
       | at first. I got a blood test at the doc and he said my vitamin D
       | was very low. I committed to walking in the sun at least a half
       | hour a day, weather permitting, and I never really had issues
       | again. Part of the issue was I was spending a lot of time walking
       | outside but not in sunlight due to the tall buildings. Just my
       | anecdotal 2c
        
         | tayo42 wrote:
         | I finally got a chance to move south and this was the first
         | winter I didn't spend being weird and existential about
         | everything. Just kind of enjoyed life.
        
         | carabiner wrote:
         | I live in Seattle and have been depressed for a while. I had my
         | Vitamin D3 levels checked via blood test, and they were really
         | low. Started taking 5,000 IU per day, and I feel exactly the
         | same as before.
        
           | numinoid wrote:
           | Anecdotally, I had to bump up to 10,000 IU to see a
           | difference.
        
           | olah_1 wrote:
           | I have never felt an affect from oral vitamins in _any_
           | situation.
           | 
           | Sitting in the sun however seems to do more than just
           | "increase vitamin d levels". The sensation is just
           | overwhelmingly lovely. It seems to reduce cortisol, makes you
           | feel tired in a euphoric way. Animals love to warm their fur
           | in shafts of sunlight too.
           | 
           | Perhaps we should be thinking more in terms of joyful
           | activities in general and less trying to biohack.
        
             | AlbertCory wrote:
             | > Animals love to warm their fur in shafts of sunlight too.
             | 
             | Indeed. My dog _always_ lies in the sun for a while when he
             | goes outside. Once he 's warm enough, he moves to the
             | shade. Animals know.
        
               | supertofu wrote:
               | My blind cat always seeks sun spots as well!
        
             | __ryan__ wrote:
             | That narrative might work for you, but the bio-hack
             | narrative might work for others.
             | 
             | Maybe the takeaway is to go into things with a positive
             | attitude but also take a personal inventory and adapt if
             | something that is _supposed_ to work doesn't work for you.
        
           | DoreenMichele wrote:
           | Seattle is extremely damp and temperate, so you see a lot of
           | mold and allergens there year round.
           | 
           | If redressing your vitamin D levels doesn't fix it, look for
           | hidden mold and/or allergies.
        
           | TameAntelope wrote:
           | 5k IUs is well beyond anything your body has a use for, and
           | in fact is above what your body can tolerate! [0]
           | 
           | > RDA: The Recommended Dietary Allowance for adults 19 years
           | and older is 600 IU daily for men and women, and for adults
           | >70 years it is 800 IU daily.
           | 
           | > UL: The Tolerable Upper Intake Level is the maximum daily
           | intake unlikely to cause harmful effects on health. The UL
           | for vitamin D for adults and children ages 9+ is 4,000 IU.
           | 
           | So it's possible your 5k IUs were causing you more harm than
           | good.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/vitamin-d/
        
             | mikenew wrote:
             | Those numbers are wrong by an order of magnitude, because
             | the original estimation was based on faulty math. The
             | actual dose needed to bring serum levels up for most people
             | would be far higher.
             | 
             | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210929/
        
               | TameAntelope wrote:
               | I'm going to go ahead and trust Harvard Medicine over a
               | single study that has since gone largely uncited, and was
               | published in "Nutrients" which carries an h-index of 115
               | (Nature, for example, carries an h-index of 1226) [0][1].
               | 
               | [0] https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=1970018
               | 8323&ti...
               | 
               | [1] https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=21206&t
               | ip=sid&...
        
             | wholien wrote:
             | Highly doubt 5k IUs is the issue. Some select quotes from
             | "Vitamin D Is Not as Toxic as Was Once Thought: A
             | Historical and an Up-to-Date Perspective" by Michael Holick
             | in Mayo Clinic Proceedings [0]:
             | 
             | > Ekwaru et al recently reported on more than 17,000
             | healthy adult volunteers participating in a preventative
             | health program and taking varying doses of vitamin D up to
             | 20,000 IU/d. These patients did not demonstrate any
             | toxicity, and the blood level of 25(OH)D in those taking
             | even 20,000 IU/d was less than 100 ng/mL.
             | 
             | > The evidence is clear that vitamin D toxicity is one of
             | the rarest medical conditions and is typically due to
             | intentional or inadvertent intake of extremely high doses
             | of vitamin D (usually in the range of >50,000-100,000 IU/d
             | for months to years).
             | 
             | [0]: Holick, https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/
             | S0025-6196(15)...
             | 
             | [1]: Ekwaru et al,
             | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25372709/
        
               | TameAntelope wrote:
               | [0] is an editorial and [1] seemingly went unpublished,
               | other than in PLOS One, which means it goes through a
               | _very_ different peer review process than most other
               | journals (that is, no peer review on its content, only on
               | its methodology).
        
             | nicoburns wrote:
             | That assumes your body is absorbing all of it. I suspect a
             | lot of people's aren't, hence the high doses. I have found
             | for example that 1000iu in the form of drops under the
             | tongue has dramatically more effect than 1000iu in the form
             | of a chewable tablet.
        
           | mupuff1234 wrote:
           | Did you do another blood test to check if the levels changed?
        
           | Trasmatta wrote:
           | Since you're in Seattle, check out bright light therapy as
           | well.
        
           | civilized wrote:
           | In this and the GP we have Vitamin D and depression in a
           | nutshell.
        
           | carabiner wrote:
           | To answer a bunch of questions: Yes, I had bloodwork done
           | later showing my D3 level in the typical range. Whether that
           | was due to the supplement, or diet, or lifestyle I can't say.
           | I take 1 pill (USP certified) on average 2-3x per week. So
           | not every day.
           | 
           | I've got treatment resistant depression and have tried
           | probably everything else you're about to suggest. The only
           | thing that kind of helped was dihydrotestosterone, but that
           | is now illegal in the US.
        
             | laurentlbm wrote:
             | I have TRD too and tried so many things. It sucks.
        
             | trts wrote:
             | Also in Seattle, also recovered from treatment resistant
             | depression. I recommend looking into TMS. I wish I had done
             | it much sooner.
             | 
             | Wish you luck, it's been an especially gloomy year here.
        
               | carabiner wrote:
               | Tried it through Neurostim in Bellevue. Didn't work.
               | Waiting for the Stanford SAINT protocol to be approved.
        
           | trash3 wrote:
           | Check your diet. Just because you take vitamin d supplements
           | doesn't mean it gets absorbed into your bloodstream.
        
           | xwowsersx wrote:
           | did you get blood work done again though after taking the 5K
           | IUs for a while? it's possible that the supplementation
           | didn't bring your Vit D levels to within range and you need
           | 10K IUs+. Of course, I'm not suggesting this would
           | necessarily help with your depression, but just pointing that
           | you gotta be scientific/anecdotal when it comes to
           | supplementation/blood panels
        
           | femiagbabiaka wrote:
           | 10k IU's a day is what it took me. I found that value almost
           | by accident, while starting to follow Stan Efferding's
           | Vertical Diet, which recommends that as a part of a suite of
           | daily vitamins (it is much better than the name belies). IMO
           | anyone who works a desk job should take 10k IU's daily. I
           | fell out of the habit during covid quarantine and my levels
           | (and my mood) were dangerously low when I came out on the
           | other side.
        
           | tomatowurst wrote:
           | 5000 IU is really too much. At best 2000, 2500 IU is good.
        
             | dralley wrote:
             | 5000 isn't too much when you're catching up from a
             | deficiency.
        
             | Vecr wrote:
             | No, 5000 IU per day is generally considered the highest non
             | megadose. Make sure it is good quality (D3, USP in the US),
             | and it should be fine. Some people say also to take K2
             | (also make sure it's USP in the US), but I'm not sure the
             | exact supposed mechanism of protection from adverse effects
             | from D3. Something about preventing calcium from leaching
             | from the bones and accumulating in the blood, I think.
        
               | pmoriarty wrote:
               | _" Vitamin D controls the absorption of calcium into the
               | blood. Vitamin K2 controls where that calcium ends up._
               | 
               |  _" Over-supplementation of vitamin D3 without ample
               | vitamin K2 leads to problems of excess calcium._
               | 
               |  _" If calcium isn't laid into bone, it will find itself
               | in other tissues, like your arteries. Calcium in the
               | arteries is BAD. It contributes to atherosclerosis and
               | vessel stiffness."_
               | 
               | https://dralexrinehart.com/articles/the-vitamin-d-and-
               | vitami...
        
             | LinuxBender wrote:
             | I use 60,000 to 90,000 IU's per day and have been doing so
             | for years. The most I have taken in a 24 hour period is
             | 140,000 IU's. There is no way I could have started off at
             | those levels however. It would have induced major
             | hypercalcemia had I done that prior to mobilizing all the
             | stored/misplaced calcium in my gut and vasculature. I am
             | not suggesting anyone else do this. One must have a
             | specific need when doing this.
             | 
             | I only mention this to say that one can go well above the
             | RDA/RDI that are highly contested to be far too low for
             | modern diets, environmental inputs and lifestyles.
        
               | TameAntelope wrote:
               | > Taking 60,000 international units (IU) a day of vitamin
               | D for several months has been shown to cause toxicity.
               | This level is many times higher than the U.S. Recommended
               | Dietary Allowance (RDA) for most adults of 600 IU of
               | vitamin D a day. [0]
               | 
               | I think you may be poisoning yourself.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-
               | lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...
        
               | LinuxBender wrote:
               | That would certainly be true had I done that from day one
               | as I had mentioned. Their documentation as with most
               | medical documentation is based on the lowest common
               | denominators. They will not risk explaining why one might
               | do what I am doing.
        
               | TameAntelope wrote:
               | It seems true without qualification.
               | 
               | What you're saying here has a lot in common with "woo", I
               | hope you realize.
        
               | LinuxBender wrote:
               | I suppose time will tell. I've been doing this a number
               | of years. I will check back in a few more years to see
               | how things are going. Honestly the cholecalciferol levels
               | are the least taboo of the biohacking I do with myself.
               | The more risky testing I did was to see how high I could
               | go on the tocotrienols, tocopherols and fibrinolytic
               | enzymes before I ran into bleeding.
        
               | TameAntelope wrote:
               | Aren't you concerned that your data is super subjective
               | as you're collecting it on yourself?
               | 
               | It sounds like there are a _ton_ of confounding variables
               | possible, not to mention your own personal biases in
               | interpreting any potential causality.
        
               | stjohnswarts wrote:
               | That's a crazy amount. I had a very low blood test
               | started supplementing with k2/5000 vitamin d several
               | years ago and my blood levels have been fine ever since.
        
             | mountainriver wrote:
             | It really depends on the person. You just need to monitor
             | your blood levels
        
           | cashsterling wrote:
           | It can take a while for your Vit-D levels to rise, even with
           | supplementing 5k IU per day... I would check your levels
           | again.
           | 
           | And, of course, Vit-D is not the only contributor to
           | depression so it might be good to see a GP and/or get a
           | general blood panel done.
        
         | KennyBlanken wrote:
         | In the northeast during wintertime, it's impossible to
         | accumulate enough vitamin D from sunlight, especially not from
         | such a short period of time, fully clothed.
         | 
         | Even if you were not fully clothed, there's so little UV making
         | to you because of the sun's low angle and distance.
        
         | pigtailgirl wrote:
         | wildly speculating from an evolutionary perspective - it
         | reasons that we'd evolve such that our moods are better in
         | light - otherwise there would be another push to stagnate vs
         | become exposed to more - such that evolution can do it's thing
         | - evolution tends towards evolution after all -
        
       | legulere wrote:
       | > Overall findings were that there is a relationship between
       | vitamin D and depression, though the directionality of this
       | association remains unclear.
       | 
       | Vitamin D really seems to be a good example of correlation does
       | not imply causation. I'm looking forward to when the Vitamin D
       | hype ebbs off and when we know what Vitamin D actually helps
       | with.
        
       | legopeice wrote:
       | In Norlisk, Russia, the children get doses of Ultra voilet light
       | to combat the lack of sunlight.
       | 
       | https://allthatsinteresting.com/norilsk#8
        
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