[HN Gopher] Apple is discontinuing the iPod
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple is discontinuing the iPod
        
       Author : minimaxir
       Score  : 360 points
       Date   : 2022-05-10 16:02 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | perardi wrote:
       | Looks like I finally moved my dad from an iPod touch to an iPhone
       | SE at the right time.
       | 
       | (He was convinced, for whatever reason, he couldn't figure out
       | how to use an iPhone...despite he uses an iPod touch, and an
       | iPad, and quite fluently. And within 1 day he was delighted,
       | because he finally had something approximating a useful camera in
       | his pocket.)
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I liked that ipods were "safe".
         | 
         | I think a lot of non tech people would REALLY benefit from a
         | setting to "confirm before dialing" in ios.
         | 
         | For example, touching ANYTHING in the phone app will
         | immediately dial that number.
         | 
         | That leads to real problems with inexperienced users, who then
         | get the mindset that they're not good with tech.
         | 
         | To be clear - the blame here is 100% on apple.
         | 
         | Most people I know have butt dialed. I consider myself highly
         | aware of my phone, yet have _accidentally called back spam
         | callers_. yikes!
        
           | tehnub wrote:
           | Yes, yes. I also would consider myself highly aware of my
           | phone, and I have called back spam callers I don't know how
           | many times from both the "Recents" tab and the notification
           | screen. I'm generally impressed with the usability of Apple's
           | default apps, so this one stands out. You'd really think the
           | "Phone" app on the "iPhone" would be a bit better thought
           | out.
        
             | perardi wrote:
             | And the thing is: this is _better_ than it used to be.
             | 
             | At least every single phone call doesn't interrupt at the
             | absolute highest level of priority and take over your
             | screen entirely. Up until...iOS 14?...you didn't really
             | have a choice to not deal with an incoming call while using
             | the phone: a call immediately took over.
        
               | Headwig wrote:
               | Made it really hard to ignore my friends and family
        
       | willswire wrote:
       | Honestly I'm surprised that it took Apple this long to take this
       | product behind the barn and shoot it.
       | 
       | My first device was an iPod touch - but the iPhone is better
       | (clearly). A consolidated line-of-effort for one less platform
       | will be helpful, I think, in allocating talent behind the other
       | products that matter.
        
         | digisign wrote:
         | > the iPhone is better (clearly)
         | 
         | They were as they designed them. Not everyone wants/needs a
         | phone. No reason they couldn't put a top-end camera in the
         | iPod.
        
         | Kwpolska wrote:
         | Apple hasn't put any effort into the iPod touch for the past
         | few years. The last refresh was in May 2019, the previous one
         | was in July 2015. The only effort there might have been is for
         | someone to test the latest iOS on an iPod touch, which is a
         | neglible amount of effort, especially for Apple.
        
       | tomjen3 wrote:
       | I mean if Steve was around he would remind you all that as far as
       | Apple is concerned the iPhone is the best iPod they ever made.
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | Was that his genuine opinion? It sounds like a thing to say to
         | sell iPhones to me.
        
           | SllX wrote:
           | I won't try to convince you, but go watch the Motorola ROKR
           | introduction from Steve Jobs on YouTube, then watch his
           | introduction of the iPhone at MacWorld 2007.
           | 
           | You can tell when he's not just selling something, but
           | believes that what he says he is selling is what he is
           | selling.
        
             | rchaud wrote:
             | This is the same Steve Jobs that said on stage Samsung's
             | original Galaxy Tab 7" defeated the purpose of a tablet
             | because he needed to file his fingers down to use it.
             | 
             | He knew full well an iPad Mini was coming the year after.
             | He just had to sell what was on the shelves now.
        
               | SllX wrote:
               | Ha! I remember that. But if you recall, the first iPad
               | mini was 7.9" and subsequent iPads mini stayed close to
               | the 8" watermark. A decade later my iPhone is a lot
               | closer to 7" at 6.7".
        
           | replygirl wrote:
           | it's hard to undersell how big a deal the ipod was 15 years
           | ago. the iphone was introduced as an ipod first, a phone
           | second, and an internet communicator third. until the app
           | store launched, most of the ads were "it's an ipod that makes
           | phone calls". and people expected the touch to be good
           | because the click wheel was good
        
             | scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
             | This. This is something that has been interesting to see
             | sort of get mixed up in memory.
             | 
             | The struggling computer company first got into people's
             | pockets with a device that played music (a key insight -
             | people make emotional contact with media). That position
             | then bought them the time to finance development of know-
             | how around pocket computers in plain sight. And then
             | finally when the timing was just right and nobody expected
             | it, they basically leveraged that position to deliver that
             | pocket computer to the masses.
        
         | SllX wrote:
         | And it is true whether you use the built-ins, 3rd party
         | software or an amalgamation. Overcast, Apple Music, Photos and
         | YouTube Premium are my "iPod".
        
         | boomboomsubban wrote:
         | That's basically what the official announcement says.
         | https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/05/the-music-lives-on/
        
       | can16358p wrote:
       | To be honest I was surprised that it lived on this long, and
       | couldn't even understand why Apple released the 7th generation.
       | It doesn't have a non-niche use, at least not in any profitable
       | form worth supporting a device category.
       | 
       | It was great for its time and I've owned and loved my iPod
       | touches, but we can't expect a for-profit company to keep selling
       | a device with no future and only a niche market, eventhough the
       | device was iconic at some point in the past.
       | 
       | Good move, and a big cherish to the iPod for changing the way we
       | listen to music back then.
        
       | tfitz237 wrote:
       | The Music Lives On [... while supplies last]
        
       | jrochkind1 wrote:
       | I'm still using an IPod Nano 5th generation (2009).
       | 
       | I bought it off ebay as a replacement for my iPod Nano 4th
       | generation (2008) that was stolen in a home break-in!
       | 
       | I love it. I dread the day the battery stops working, which it
       | will eventually, and which is probably the only thing that would
       | ever lead the thing not working anymore.
       | 
       | I still put podcasts and mp3's on it. I listen to it in my car
       | (which is also old enough to work with it via a hardwire USB
       | hookup, I also dread the day I replace my car with one that
       | own't), or with headphones when walking.
       | 
       | I've become one of those middle-aged people who doesn't want to
       | change. But the iPod nano _still_ seems like amazing futuristic
       | science fiction technology to me. it 's tiny. It Just Works.
       | (although MacOS has started having trouble sync'ing files to it
       | without going crazy with duplicate files, I'm afraid).
        
       | deergomoo wrote:
       | There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming services
       | and just buy a couple of albums per month based on what I think
       | might be cool. I find myself enjoying music significantly less
       | now I have unlimited access to everything I could ever want. It's
       | become disposable; just background noise rather than something
       | I'm actively experiencing.
       | 
       | There is also a part of me that wants to take those albums and
       | keep them on an old click-wheel iPod. I always thought the early
       | iPod nanos were among the best consumer hardware devices ever
       | made. Just the right mix of boxy and round; small enough to be
       | novel (at least at the time), but large enough to still be
       | perfectly usable. Unfortunately, finding one that both holds a
       | charge and isn't battered to all hell is quite difficult these
       | days, and even so, it's much harder to justify a single use
       | device for music when I literally always have my phone with me.
       | 
       | As someone who was a teen when the iPod really started taking
       | off, it was a constant presence during the time music was
       | starting to become an important part of my life. Sad to see it
       | go, even though really it's been gone since the iPhone launched.
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | Yeah i loved the Ipod, and I loved the ability to listen to "my
         | music" whenever i wanted. It was a major game changer, and now
         | I can do the same but "my music" no longer feels special so it
         | hardly seems to matter. Media has become a commodity good with
         | the maturation of the internet, substitute goods have never
         | been easier to find.
        
         | javajosh wrote:
         | _> There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming
         | services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on
         | what I think might be cool._
         | 
         | This is what I do! And for similar reasons. It's actually
         | really great because a) you can pick up used CDs and vinyl for
         | cheap, b) you get to listen to the whole album, c) there are no
         | screens involved. I didn't realize how oppressive screen-based
         | music selection has become until I ditched it. I love my setup
         | (and you can pick up great used audio equipment for cheap now,
         | too.) Just do it - and if you don't like it you can get rid of
         | it all on ebay.
        
         | dotnet00 wrote:
         | I've been doing this, would definitely recommend it. I have
         | also considered getting an old school music player, but I'd
         | rather not carry around yet another device when a big reason I
         | bought the phone I bought was having a headphone jack.
        
           | brewdad wrote:
           | If your phone has a slot for an SD card, load it up (opus
           | sounds good enough for on the go) with your collection and
           | you can have the benefits of an old school player behind an
           | app interface on the phone you already carry everywhere.
        
             | dotnet00 wrote:
             | Phones these days have so much internal storage that I
             | haven't had to use an sd card, although my phone does have
             | a slot for one. I prefer to use plex and plexamp for my
             | music so I have the conveniences of streaming services with
             | the ownership and classic music player feel of old school
             | devices.
             | 
             | Having tried Youtube Music, Tidal and Amazon Music, I feel
             | that the UIs of most streaming apps and even most music
             | apps in general are not that great.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | conductr wrote:
         | Streaming is just a medium. How you curate and listen is the
         | message. I might be a bit older than average here but I
         | converted to iPod on first generation and I'm on the streaming
         | bandwagon now but I never got into the habit of shuffling. I
         | listen to albums, track by track in order. Always have
         | regardless of the tech I was using and don't feel like I've
         | missed much. Actually I've gained a bit because I can branch
         | out pretty wide from my core stuff and I can put on a playlist
         | for ease when I just want background noise. Also, I remember
         | the feeling of buying an album out of pure curiosity and
         | thinking it was trash. That doesn't happen any more.
         | 
         | So really all to say, it might be worth trying some habit hacks
         | before flipping the whole thing over.
        
         | Bayart wrote:
         | Modding old iPods to have them run flash memory and decent
         | batteries is pretty common, you could look into that. I'm still
         | using my 17 years old iPod 5G like this. Flashed with Rockbox
         | it reads every file format (mostly FLAC) I could ever want.
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | You can buy the songs on iTunes or whatever it is called and
         | then you can later sync it to an iPod - and there are repairs
         | on youtube where they put in fresh new batteries.
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | One of my favourite teachers at school noted this phenomenon
         | long before streaming was a thing. He said that once he got a
         | favourite film on DVD he actually watched it less. Whereas
         | before he would watch it whenever it was on TV, he can now
         | watch it whenever he wants, so why watch it ever?
         | 
         | I've noticed a related phenomenon: too much choice induces
         | anxiety. If there are like 5 films showing in the cinema it's
         | usually obvious which one to pick. Maybe I'll watch another
         | later in the week. But now I can watch any film ever made and I
         | often find it hard to choose because there is a fear of missing
         | out on all the other films I could have chosen.
        
         | paulmd wrote:
         | > There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming
         | services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on
         | what I think might be cool. I find myself enjoying music
         | significantly less now I have unlimited access to everything I
         | could ever want. It's become disposable; just background noise
         | rather than something I'm actively experiencing.
         | 
         | I strongly prefer the "sit down and listen to a whole album"
         | experience anyway, at least from artists who make a deliberate
         | attempt to put together a cohesive album and not just one or
         | two bangers and a bunch of filler.
         | 
         | Sitting down and listening to a Bowie album or something is a
         | time capsule, and I'm not a boomer so it's not childhood
         | nostalgia either. It's nice to sit down and listen to an hour
         | of music that was specifically curated to produce a certain
         | experience.
         | 
         | > Unfortunately, finding one that both holds a charge and isn't
         | battered to all hell is quite difficult these days, and even
         | so, it's much harder to justify a single use device for music
         | when I literally always have my phone with me.
         | 
         | FYI you can replace the battery in an iPod... someone pointed
         | me towards Cameron Sino as being an extremely reputable
         | supplier of replacements (I've known of them for a long time
         | but I had no idea they sold direct to consumer!).
         | 
         | Also, if you are not enamored with needing to use iTunes, the
         | "Rockbox" open-source firmware targets Apple hardware and that
         | should allow it to act like a plain old USB Mass Storage
         | device. I used to use it like 15+ years ago on my iRiver H320
         | music player.
         | 
         | (the name "iRiver" actually predates the ipod! They were a
         | korean company who became known for making very capable flash
         | and HDD mp3 players for their day, with OGG Vorbis support and
         | line-in recording and many other neat features.)
         | 
         | https://www.rockbox.org/
         | 
         | Also also, if you are interested in improvements, or your HDD
         | died, you can get an IDE-to-CF adapter or perhaps SD/MicroSD or
         | mSATA or M.2 (not sure what's available nowadays) and use a
         | normal flash drive. At the time they were popular this often
         | implied a reduction in capacity, but flash is big now and you
         | can probably get like a 1TB drive and with Rockbox it should
         | recognize it. Not all cards work, but I think the dividing line
         | is often "cards that speak IDE" vs cards that don't - many of
         | the high-spec CompactFlash cards actually have a "native IDE"
         | mode so they speak the same protocol as the original drive did.
         | It also substantially improves battery life, because you're
         | going from a spinning drive pulling a couple watts to a flash
         | card pulling ~nothing.
         | 
         | No affiliation with this site and haven't used them but this is
         | basically what you'll be looking for:
         | https://www.iflash.xyz/ipod-and-sdhc-sdxc-cards/
         | 
         | If your device is _physically_ battered to hell then yeah, not
         | much you can do besides try to find a replacement. But if your
         | ipod is still in decent shape with a fresh battery and a flash
         | adapter it 'll be better than new. Do try to minimize the
         | number of assembly/disassembly cycles though, there's lots of
         | little plastic clips in most devices and they won't last
         | forever.
         | 
         | Also, Fiio made some devices with very similar ergonomics to
         | the ipod (eg the scroll wheel) like the X5 and X5ii, although
         | like most others they've gone to android nowadays. I have an
         | X5ii that will take a pair of 128GB microSD cards and it has a
         | solid hifi headphone amp built in.
         | 
         | https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-x5-2nd-gen-premium-hi-...
        
         | eyelidlessness wrote:
         | > There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming
         | services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on
         | what I think might be cool.
         | 
         | I highly encourage giving it a try if you're inclined. I
         | personally never took to streaming services, largely for the
         | reasons you express.
         | 
         | For me it's mostly because I dislike shuffle, and prefer
         | listing to full albums. Not a hipster snobby thing, it just
         | fits my attention span better and has led to several artists
         | becoming favorites when I'd felt pretty meh about their
         | singles.
        
         | Bluecobra wrote:
         | > There is a part of me that wants to abandon streaming
         | services and just buy a couple of albums per month based on
         | what I think might be cool.
         | 
         | I used to do this before the streaming services existed. I used
         | to buy a handful of MP3's from Amazon (don't laugh) per month.
         | I would also buy used CDs and rip it to MP3. Apple Music is
         | included with monthly cell phone bill so I now "rent" some of
         | my music now, it's just easier. I'm careful not to just
         | download whole albums outright though, I have a curated
         | collection of songs I like and I still use the old star ratings
         | in iTunes. I also pay for $25/year for iTunes Match to maintain
         | my legacy collection.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | dkonofalski wrote:
         | This is me as well and is the primary reason I still buy albums
         | on vinyl. I'm not an audiophile snob or anything, I just think
         | that listening to music on vinyl is deliberate enough to
         | overcome the "disposable" issue that you're describing. If I
         | want to listen to an album, I have to go to the room in my
         | house with the turntable, open the album, put it on, set the
         | tone arm, etc. It's very deliberate and it helps me appreciate
         | and dedicate time to music.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | I forget where I was reading/listening to it (may well have
           | been a podcast), but I recall someone talking about printing
           | out tiny artwork for NFC tags and configuring them in such a
           | way that scanning them played the one album printed on it. I
           | thought that was super neat--still got the convenience of
           | digital music, but it is still a deliberate action as you
           | describe.
        
           | dxscorp wrote:
           | I've also turned to vinyl for this, and while I love it, I
           | will say I yearn for something that doesn't involve the
           | dreaded 'flip' especially on modern double albums. 3 songs
           | per side goes by so fast. Maybe this is why people still use
           | cassettes?
        
             | Multicomp wrote:
             | Not cassettes but a dedicated CD player is what I use for
             | this stuff.
             | 
             | I have certain custom mixtape style mood music CDs
             | depending on how the scene in my novel is supposed to feel
             | tonally, for example.
             | 
             | Yes I could make those into YouTube playlists, but the
             | ritual of putting in the right CD has something to say for
             | it, and also my CDs never have advertisements that manage
             | to sneak past all of my layers of adblock, nor do they
             | suddenly decide to be unavailable on one particular day or
             | another.
        
             | ckosidows wrote:
             | I bought a Vinyl player (AT-LP60XBT) but rarely use it
             | because I feel like I can't tell a difference between it
             | and Spotify through my speakers (Edifier S350DB). Only
             | difference seems to be it's more inconvenient.
             | 
             | It feels like the inconvenience is what people _like_ about
             | vinyl? But maybe my setup just isn't good enough to tell a
             | difference?
        
           | endorphine wrote:
           | My thoughts exactly. That's one of the big advantages that
           | vinyl comes with, for me personally.
           | 
           | This and that I'm very deliberate about keeping track of new
           | music I want to listen to (my queue). EDIT: There was a tool
           | posted here on Show HN a few days ago that seemed interesting
           | for this sort of stuff but I can't seem to find it now.
        
         | dont__panic wrote:
         | There's a middle ground, too -- you can host music streaming
         | for your own library through [Jellyfin](https://jellyfin.org/)
         | (or Plex, or a few other alternatives) for the backend and
         | something like
         | [FinAmp](https://github.com/UnicornsOnLSD/finamp) on the
         | frontend. Easy to curate your own library, and you can avoid
         | the "sync problem" when you download a new album.
         | 
         | There are some bugs to iron out in the setup, but my raspberry
         | pi home server has been running this great for 5 months now,
         | and offline media served me very well through a cross-country
         | move. It's a great opportunity to take back some agency from
         | Spotify, start contributing to artists on bandcamp or similar,
         | and cut another annoying monthly subscription from your life.
         | 
         | When someone hands me their phone to play music on Spotify at
         | this point, I find the front page absolutely overwhelming. It's
         | sort of like going back to cable after streaming for years, and
         | seeing your first ad. You wonder how you ever put up with it.
        
           | jszymborski wrote:
           | I do something similar with the subsonic protocol by locally
           | hosting Airsonic[0] and listening with Strawberry Player[1]
           | on Desktop and iSub[2] on iOS. Using Tailscale[3], I'm able
           | to stream my library on the go. Best part is that all this
           | infra is free and pretty hands-off maintenance-wise.
           | 
           | [0] https://airsonic.github.io/
           | 
           | [1] https://www.strawberrymusicplayer.org/
           | 
           | [2] https://isub.app/
           | 
           | [3] https://tailscale.com/
        
             | lynguist wrote:
             | Could such a setup be used for streaming movies as well? If
             | yes, could you explain how?
        
               | mouth wrote:
               | Plex, Emby, and Jellyfin all could be used to accomplish
               | this.
        
               | jszymborski wrote:
               | Yup! I run Jellyfin on the same machine as Airsonic for
               | movies and shows.
        
           | bitL wrote:
           | With Jellyfin you might end up with the same problem if your
           | catalogue is too large - it's then indistinguishable from
           | other streaming services.
        
             | brewdad wrote:
             | I've been a Plex user for years. I started playing around
             | with Jellyfin this week and I think I'll probably use both
             | for a while since they can share the same library.
             | 
             | Plexamp has been great for music. I can put on any CD I
             | own, in FLAC quality, without having to go locate the
             | physical disc. I've spent much of pandemic filing in holes
             | in the back catalog of my favorite artists.
             | 
             | If I want a mix, I tend to open up Tidal and let it build a
             | "radio station" based on my mood.
        
               | jjcon wrote:
               | Also a plex user for music and have also played with
               | Jellyfin. My impression is that in a couple years
               | Jellyfin will be the go to but that it isn't quite up to
               | snuff with Plex yet (especially wrt music) though some
               | projects like JellyAmp are changing that.
        
           | geoffeg wrote:
           | I've been frustrated with Spotify's UI for so long now. It
           | just seems so full of dark... or at least dim(?) user
           | patterns. I started buying albums from bands I like off
           | Bandcamp and loading them into Plexamp. (I really hope Epic
           | doesn't destroy Bandcamp, it's one of the few remaining
           | sources of high-quality (FLAC) downloadable music.)
        
             | lapsis_beeftech wrote:
             | Bandcamp is great; the only marketplace I have found with
             | fair and reasonable terms for both producers and consumers
             | of music. I never buy music anywhere else these days and am
             | rather worried about Epic Games' acquisition.
        
           | mikenew wrote:
           | Navidrome is far and away the best self hosted streaming
           | music server. I set up half a dozen and wasn't happy until I
           | tried that one. The developer is very friendly and responsive
           | too.
           | 
           | https://github.com/navidrome/navidrome
        
           | tehnub wrote:
           | You can also use Apple Music to stream your own local
           | library. That feature is why I switched from Spotify a few
           | years ago.
        
             | stuartd wrote:
             | Been using iTunes Match for years and it's great. I have a
             | load of stuff in my library which was either never released
             | digitally (eg em:t) or was deleted (eg The KLF). Oink.
        
               | stuartd wrote:
               | Having said that, in the really early days it (or my
               | phone, an iPhone 4 and later a 6S) was a terrible
               | experience a lot of the time. Even with _good Wi-Fi_ I'd
               | wait for songs to play and then they would probably still
               | stutter. It's seamless now though, as long as I have a
               | decent mobile signal.
        
               | daveofiveo wrote:
               | I have been using iTunes Match for years and now use
               | Apple Music. I love it, especially the integration.
               | Combine that with CarPlay and the audio entertainment
               | options really open up.
               | 
               | Question to stuartd: I am concerned about how long Apple
               | will support iTunes Match. Have you thought about what
               | you would switch to in order to stream your Apple
               | Music/iTunes when or if Apple sunsets iTunes Match as a
               | service?
               | 
               | Appreciate it!
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | That's exactly what I do. Having all the music is essentially
         | the same as having none of the music. I buy an album a month,
         | usually (plus more on my birthday and at Christmas), and have
         | my iPhone set up so that the music is the 32M of least-played
         | music, plus anything rated 3 stars that I've not heard in two
         | years, 4 stars that I've not heard in a year and 5 stars that
         | I've not heard in six months. It gives me a nice mix of fresh
         | tracks and favorites.
        
         | mastazi wrote:
         | I think that I solved this problem, I did it through self-
         | discipline, categorically avoiding any recommendation system on
         | any platform I use. I only ever listen to music that was either
         | on one of my playlists, or on a playlist that a friend shared
         | with me, etc.
         | 
         | Music that is part of my own playlists is there because I
         | discovered it organically (was in a movie I watched, heard on
         | the radio etc.) which is the same as you would discover it pre-
         | streaming.
         | 
         | Songs and playlists that friends share with me is the
         | equivalent of old cassettes that friends would make for you.
         | 
         | I do the same thing outside of music streaming too, there are
         | browser extensions like Undistracted that can help avoiding
         | recommendation systems (but unfortunately Undistracted doesn't
         | work on Spotify).
        
         | zahma wrote:
         | Part of what you described is due to streaming, but it's also
         | the production side making music available for this type of
         | consumption. That's been a long time in the making as labels
         | consolidate and big artists become sex symbols, actors, and
         | basically lifestyle influencers while singing generically
         | machine-crafted music that has no lasting potential. Moreover,
         | TikTok is becoming a recruiting ground for record labels. My
         | guess is singles are going to get shorter and even more
         | ephemeral, just like all the "culture" streaming into our phone
         | screens. So what you're describing to me is an extension of
         | fatigue with a trend that doesn't try to make things to last.
         | 
         | Having physical media or something that is individual to the
         | music makes me respect my collection and helps bring it to
         | life. I can't stream from a big service because it ruins the
         | feeling. I don't really listen to much music on my phone either
         | unless I'm in the car. I like it that way. It feels defiant
         | that I'm not just randomly bombarding my ears with whatever
         | cool new trash is being forced into my ears.
        
           | joe5150 wrote:
           | the tendency of artists "becoming sex symbols, actors, and
           | basically lifestyle influencers while singing generically
           | machine-crafted music" if not basically being the case for
           | the entire history of recorded music, at least predates
           | streaming by many decades. it's also not exclusive to music
           | and has a long history in basically every artistic industry.
        
             | chha wrote:
             | Absolutely. But now more than ever it's about the brand,
             | and not the individual. But I think this primarily applies
             | to mainstream music where the artist is likely to have a
             | few hits over a couple years, only to fade out (unless they
             | can build the brand). Go outside mainstream music, and
             | chances are that you'll see something completely different.
        
         | doublepg23 wrote:
         | Chiming in with the vinyl recommendation as well.
         | 
         | Pulling up lyrics and going through my favorite records is
         | quite a nice evening.
        
         | IgorPartola wrote:
         | I have always loved music and still do. I think what you
         | describe has in part been due to scarcity. But in part it has
         | to do with growing up. As a teenager you are often bored out of
         | your whole mind and so have time to focus on music. You also
         | listen to the lyrics and the ideas presented are brand new and
         | meaningful. Later in life you are less likely to find truly
         | novel albums, or even songs; maybe a phrase here and there but
         | a record is less likely to capture your imagination.
         | 
         | Here is my solution to enjoying music: treat it as a soundtrack
         | to your life. Create themed playlists. Spotify has
         | collaborative playlists built in and I have a couple of friends
         | who are or were professional DJs. I will start a playlist and
         | then have them add things to it based on the theme and feeling.
         | This process has gotten better and better. I now enjoy high
         | quality music that I love while also discovering new artists
         | and records.
        
           | dexterdog wrote:
           | I'm in my 50s and I still listen to new music that moves me
           | to both excitement and tears. I don't use streaming services
           | and just maintain my own library and always have. Many of the
           | bands I listen to have members older than I am, but they are
           | still actively making new music.
        
         | geoelectric wrote:
         | I think this is actually a pretty real concern. I've noticed my
         | appreciation for specific instances of all sorts of media has
         | tanked with wide availability.
         | 
         | I actually used to buy a _lot_ of media so I hit this problem
         | before streaming. As soon as I had a backlog big enough with
         | each type of media that it wasn 't straightforward to burn
         | through it, it became a cloud of equally possible stuff with
         | the result I wasn't particularly invested in any of it. Most
         | people were smarter than me re: dumping money into bits on a
         | disc, but now that streaming and/or free-feed libraries have
         | hit most media types, I think the experience is becoming more
         | common.
         | 
         | I think it's a different version of Paradox of Choice: all
         | individualization between the various choices is lost when
         | there's too many. With PoC, the problem is that then you have
         | nothing left by which you can prioritize. In this case, the
         | issue is the loss of all joy you'd have found in the
         | differences.
         | 
         | What's helped a little for me is going on "kicks," like finding
         | all the bands I liked that did EDM-metal hybrid, or all the
         | found footage movies I liked, etc. Constraining the pool you're
         | selecting from first makes it easier, and having a mission of
         | some kind makes it easier still.
        
           | sharkweek wrote:
           | Child of the 90s here and my parents wouldn't get cable TV.
           | 
           | This meant my access to movies was basically whatever was on
           | broadcast TV that night or if I was really lucky whatever was
           | available at our local video rental store.
           | 
           | I remember not always loving whatever movie we chose (or
           | whatever was on TV) but I watched it because it's what I had.
           | 
           | Now, like many others, I stare at the home screen of a few
           | different services each night, start and stop a few different
           | things, then give up.
        
             | boredtofears wrote:
             | Personally I think that has more to do with what movie
             | offerings there are today vs 20 years ago. I could
             | absolutely care less about the latest comic book movie but
             | that seems to be where movie studios have put all their
             | effort.
             | 
             | On the other hand, TV series have never been better - we
             | seem to be in some kind of golden age where you can find
             | tons of high quality well acted series on every streaming
             | service. There was a bit of a lull (for me) during Covid,
             | but my backlog is completely full through the next year.
        
               | Syonyk wrote:
               | The consolidation of movie studios (mostly into Disney
               | lately...) hasn't been helping either. There used to be
               | plenty of small studios that would do "weird" stuff - it
               | wasn't going to be a huge commercial success, but it
               | would probably make back the modest budget it had.
               | 
               | There's always older films to watch. I'm at a point where
               | I'd far rather put the time into something older, with
               | solid actors, than watch the latest and greatest mostly-
               | CG special effects laden [whatever]. That most of those
               | movies are unwatchable unless you're "deep into the
               | fandom" doesn't encourage me to invest in them either.
               | And if it's not those, it's the "How can we prequel all
               | the popular things," even when it makes no sense at all.
               | To yell at a cloud briefly, Han Solo doesn't _need_ a
               | prequel. He 's a standard drifter archetype, and to nail
               | his past down doesn't do the character any service at
               | all.
        
               | boredtofears wrote:
               | > greatest mostly-CG special effects laden [whatever]
               | 
               | There was some threshold that was crossed probably close
               | to a decade ago for me where CG effects stopped being
               | interesting in any way, but watching older movies with
               | their incredible special effects and stuntmen really does
               | look impressive to me. There is no CG in the world that
               | compares to the immersion in Apocalypse Now, for example.
               | 
               | I do think there are many ways to use CG to subtly
               | support the impact of a scene driven by characters, but
               | when the scene itself is driven by the CG (in ways that
               | are unrealistic for actors or stuntmen to perform) it
               | just feels like a lazy way to progress a storyline.
        
               | sharkweek wrote:
               | I do think this is why anytime the A24 logo comes up
               | before a trailer it piques my interest.
               | 
               | (side note: the one they just released, Everything
               | Everywhere All The Time, might be one of the best movies
               | I've seen in the last decade)
        
               | mmmpop wrote:
               | > He's a standard drifter archetype, and to nail his past
               | down doesn't do the character any service at all.
               | 
               | old man makes great point
        
         | halfmatthalfcat wrote:
         | I have discovered so many (good) bands via Spotify over the
         | past 5 years it's honestly insane. If I had stuck to "guessing"
         | at what I might like, I would not have had such a rich
         | collection of new music from relatively unknown or foreign
         | artists. It's also allowed me to sample so many varieties of
         | genres without any direct monetary involvement. I wouldn't
         | trade it for the world honestly.
         | 
         | I also support the artists I listen to by buying merch/going to
         | concerts to supplement the pittance they get from streaming
         | royalties.
        
         | zerocrates wrote:
         | I've never moved to streaming; I still just load songs onto my
         | phone. I don't feel like I'm really missing out on anything. I
         | buy things on CD (often used) or vinyl-with-download-code or
         | Bandcamp mostly.
        
           | Daneel_ wrote:
           | Same camp here, with the exception of soundcloud - it has
           | such a variety of user-generated content, as well as longer
           | sets (multi-hour mixes, DJ sets, other long-form content)
           | that you just can't find on other platforms.
        
           | cyral wrote:
           | The biggest benefit for me is finding new music, Spotify's
           | discover feature is how I find most new music these days and
           | it's decently accurate at finding things I like.
        
         | BolexNOLA wrote:
         | Couldn't have put it better myself. This is 100% how I feel.
        
         | greedo wrote:
         | I do the same thing with Netflix. I used to get DVDs (then Blu-
         | rays) but their quality was consistently bad (damaged discs)
         | and their collection has turned to crap. So now I just stream
         | Netflix (cuz the family would lynch me otherwise), but I buy a
         | Blu-ray every month with the money I'm saving.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | I buy Blu-Rays for films and shows I really like. Streaming
           | services may be 4K, but the bitrate of a 4K stream is
           | typically just a fraction of even a 1080p BD, and it _really_
           | shows.
        
         | Groxx wrote:
         | To be a counter-anecdote: I love streaming music, I listen to
         | _far_ more and _far_ wider variety than I did more. I can
         | definitely see why that 'd be a downside for some, but I love
         | it.
         | 
         | My only real complaint is that nothing wants to work together,
         | so migrating services / backing up playlists / etc is a real
         | nightmare. But I never actually maintained that in any real
         | fashion to begin with, so I do the ones I care about by hand
         | and ignore the rest and I've become fine with that.
        
         | vlunkr wrote:
         | As a counterpoint, I enjoy music more now. Music discovery is
         | light years ahead of where it was in the iPod era. There's no
         | additional cost to exploring as many artists and genres as you
         | want. Also, streaming services are doing nothing to prevent you
         | from listening to music the old way. Yeah, Spotify has a huge
         | library, but it's not like the whole thing is on shuffle. If
         | you find you're not spending the time to enjoy specific things,
         | that's ultimately your problem.
         | 
         | I do get where you're coming from, I'm very nostalgic for my
         | old click-wheel iPod. Probably the biggest downside in moving
         | away from physical media in my mind is the loss of the rest of
         | the album art.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | I think the iPod was somewhere in the area where I discovered all
       | the nice to have features and polish of Apple products that made
       | me admire Apple. (I was into PCs long before that but my exposure
       | to Apple was limited and I wasn't all that impressed)
       | 
       | By no means was the iPod perfect, and it was effectively the same
       | product as many other media players that came before and after,
       | other products even had more features sometimes ... and yet the
       | friction of using the iPod was just lower to the point that I
       | enjoyed using it more than other media players at the time.
       | 
       | It's a mysterious process to me finding those places to make use
       | of a thing easier, more intuitive and etc. When something is bad
       | it is easy to see, but there's a step beyond "take away the bad
       | friction" that I'm always wondering about when I'm building
       | things. I never quite reach that Apple-ish feel.
        
         | meibo wrote:
         | This might be true, but only if you stay on the "beaten path".
         | If you do anything they don't intend you to do with these
         | devices it ends up being a massive pain and you often just end
         | up getting hit with the ol' "you're holding it wrong".
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | I feel like product defects are .. a thing everywhere.
           | Holding it wrong was just bad choices related to it, but it's
           | not like that's unique to products tailored to specific use
           | patterns either.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | > it was effectively the same product as many other media
         | players that came before and after, other products even had
         | more features sometimes
         | 
         | For me, at the time, the iPod (Classic) was a worst-in-class
         | product (required iTunes, pretended it didn't know what a file
         | was, annoying to navigate, etc.) The iPod Touch was that but
         | also not attractive.
        
           | jyounker wrote:
           | When it came out, I had one requirement for an MP3 player: It
           | had to play without skipping while I ran.
           | 
           | The iPod was the first MP3 maker on the market that crossed
           | this bar.
        
             | pessimizer wrote:
             | I never had an mp3 player that skipped, unless you count
             | the two that read mp3s off CDs. _Every_ manufacturer passed
             | your test that I know of.
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | I think one of the things was the iPod wasn't "for" most of
           | us who were face down in our piles of MP3s and managing them
           | and etc.... at least not at first.
           | 
           | One of those cases where the first in the market consumers /
           | enthusiasts weren't the best folks to take your hints from as
           | far as the future of that tech.
           | 
           | Arguably they've long been left behind by streaming services
           | and etc. My piles of files are certainly just ... sitting
           | there now.
        
             | pessimizer wrote:
             | Nah, it was absurdly heavy marketing. I don't remember any
             | other mp3 player being marketed at all. The click wheel was
             | also cool, although pragmatically it sucked and nobody ever
             | used it on on anything again.
             | 
             | Also, buying an mp3 player was a bit of a minefield back
             | then, because you couldn't tell if it behaved as a drive or
             | through some elaborate software DRM/obfuscation dance that
             | might even be specific to Windows ("playsforsure," maybe?
             | Talk about an Orwellian name.) At least people knew that
             | the iPod would work.
        
       | closedloop129 wrote:
       | Too soon. The iPod would be the perfect companion for an Apple
       | Watch once there is a bit more energy available in the battery of
       | the watch.
       | 
       | Instead of selling the watch as an add-on to the phone, the watch
       | could be the central device and the screen of the iPod could be
       | brought out when the voice assistants come to their rare limits.
       | 
       | There is no need for a phone when better screens are available
       | most of the times (e.g. at the desk, the car or the tv).
        
         | microtherion wrote:
         | That would make the iPod more of an "iPad micro".
        
       | booboofixer wrote:
       | This is great news. I have an old iPod touch that i kept because
       | it had no trade-in value. Can't wait for it to be worth something
       | in about a decade or however long it takes for these electronics
       | to become 'vintage'. Also, if anyone wants to pay $$$ for a 2012
       | Macbook Air..
        
       | jsiaajdsdaa wrote:
       | I kind of liked having a phone without phone service. Good use
       | for kids.
        
       | playpause wrote:
       | For the last 2 years I've been using an iPod touch as my
       | "downtime" device. I usually put my iPhone away in a drawer from
       | early evening until I'm ready to start work the next day. I found
       | this impossible to stick to until I got an iPod touch, because in
       | the evenings and mornings I often need to manage things like
       | HomeKit devices or other Apple ecosystem things like Reminders. I
       | don't have any distracting or time-sucking apps on the iPod
       | touch, and the screen is small and fiddly, so I barely use it
       | except for a few seconds here and there for something practical.
       | The difference in stress levels and mindset has been huge. I
       | can't recommend highly enough separating your phone usage into
       | 'social/work/news/comms' and 'practical/home/calm' categories, on
       | different physical devices.
       | 
       | I have tried using the new iOS Focus and Downtime features to
       | make my iPhone work a similar way (hide all the time-sucking apps
       | at certain times of day etc), but having a dedicated device for
       | the purpose is much simpler and much more effective.
        
         | darknavi wrote:
         | You can still do this buy just purchasing an older iPhone and
         | never putting it on a cell plan right?
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | I do something similar but not quite the same with my iPad: it
         | has most of the same (non-work) apps that my phone does, but
         | I've disabled all notifications for all apps so it never yells
         | at me; it's an entirely chill-out/self-directed device where
         | nothing ever grabs at my attention
        
           | dwighttk wrote:
           | I do something similar but with my main iPhone. There's like
           | 3 apps that have notifications and none of them make sound.
        
             | brundolf wrote:
             | I treat my main phone as a notification entrypoint; trash-
             | notifications are turned off, of course, but every
             | messaging, calling, email, etc app has them turned on. If I
             | want to know if anything relevant to me has happened, I
             | look there or keep it nearby. If I don't have a
             | notification there, I know nothing has happened
             | 
             | On my iPad, even messages with friends, emails, etc are all
             | blocked. Not even red badges on the app icons. Nothing that
             | can possibly prompt or notify me in any way. I don't think
             | I could get away with that on my main phone
        
         | tomchuk wrote:
         | I have an older iPad mini for this purpose (but an old iPhone
         | without a data plan would work too). I setup a separate
         | home@<domain> iCloud account under my family plan and use it
         | exclusively for streaming music vi AirPlay, cooking w/ recipes
         | on Paprika, HomeKit controls, reminders, timers, etc. - no
         | Slack notifications, no calls, no calendar reminders. The
         | AppleTV goes on the same account too. It's really been a great
         | solution.
        
       | hancholo wrote:
       | I went down a rabbit hole a few months ago and bought an ipod
       | classic 5.5 with the wolfson dac for ~$40, I plan to modify it a
       | bit storage and battery wise, and possibly some cosmetic mods. I
       | also researched IEM's and paired it with some 'Chi-Fi' IEM's like
       | the moondrop Aria and then got some aftermarket spinfit tips and
       | changed the headphone cable to something of better quality. I
       | plan on upgrading the IEM's to something more expensive but right
       | now these are a good first pair for $70.
       | 
       | The real reason I did all this was because I got nostalgia and
       | could not afford an iPod back in the day but now I see myself
       | buying more exclusive harder to find music because nothing is
       | more annoying that having playlists on Spotify where songs are no
       | longer available/blacked out or deleted rare music from youtube
       | due to copyrights. I would like to have some kind of ownership
       | over my music independent from an internet connection or a
       | streaming service (nice to discover new music) dacs of course are
       | not as good as modern phones of today but goddamit-NOSTALGIA!
        
       | standardUser wrote:
       | I only ever owned one MP3 player and it was a cheap little thing
       | that ran on a single AAA battery. Plug it into my computer, drag
       | and drop a few dozen albums worth of music, grab some extra
       | batteries and I could listen to music indefinitely when I
       | travelled. Never saw any need for something more than this, and I
       | still don't!
        
       | sydthrowaway wrote:
       | Remember what.cd?
        
       | flint wrote:
       | Vinyl, and a burbor manhattan. No screens in the room.
        
       | aj7 wrote:
       | Original iPod 1st generations are going for $180-$500 on ebay.
        
       | reaperducer wrote:
       | Sad to see the iPod go. I have an iPhone, but it's not the same.
       | There's a lot of value in unitaskers.
       | 
       | I have a long train trip coming up. I'll have my iPhone with me,
       | but I'll also bring my iPod shuffles. They're simply better
       | suited to the task than to have to deal with all the compromises
       | of a device that tries to be everything to everyone all the time.
       | 
       | - Vastly superior battery time. In part, because it's not trying
       | to do a million things other than play music.
       | 
       | - Better ergonomically. I can lay in my berth at night with my
       | wired earbuds and listen with a tiny, durable device instead of a
       | large, fragile device. It's not tragic if I roll over on a
       | Shuffle, or drop it out the side of the bed.
       | 
       | - A shuffle on a small train table takes up much less space than
       | an iPhone. Or no space at all, since I can clip it to my
       | clothing.
       | 
       | - To me, the Shuffles just sound better than the phone. I'm sure
       | there are a million blogs that dispute this with all kinds of
       | mathematical blather. But I use the same earbuds with my Shuffles
       | and my iPhone, and the Shuffles just sound better to my ears.
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | For me, the feature that beats all of those combined is simply
         | being able to carry all my music around for free. Now I have to
         | either constantly swap it around and filter it, or pay through
         | the nose to stream it.
        
       | deanCommie wrote:
       | All the comments lamenting the "end of the iPod" are premature
       | IMO.
       | 
       | Give it a maximum of 5 years, and there'll be some social trend
       | to offer an "minimally online" device to help you disconnect
       | better from your overwhelming digital firehose in the interest of
       | "wellbeing", and some new iPod device will come back.
       | 
       | The 2020's equivalent of the iPod shuffle - deliberately feature
       | limited for a very specific market.
        
       | gnat wrote:
       | Shame! A bunch of our retail clients use them as in-store devices
       | for staff who walk the retail floor -- they don't need to make
       | calls or take gigapixel photos so the iPhone is overkill (and
       | thus expensive) for them. I expect they'll move to Android and
       | mourn the loss of cachet ...
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | Or iPads.
        
       | richardjdare wrote:
       | The end of an era. I used the iPod Touch to develop and use iOs
       | apps without spending money on an iPhone. It was a relatively
       | reasonably priced gateway into the Apple app ecosystem.
        
       | 0000011111 wrote:
       | Ya, I switched to VLC on Android years ago.
       | 
       | And; yt-dlp --recode-video mp3 https://youtu.be/P5JplB64m5U
       | 
       | Most of my collection for research purposes of course.
        
       | bigdict wrote:
       | > Apple is discontinuing the iPod
       | 
       | They never actually say so in the press release.
        
       | izzydata wrote:
       | Sony is still making modern variants of the Walkman. I'm not a
       | big fan of their Android powered versions, but I like the
       | slightly earlier versions that can only play music.
        
       | DizzyDoo wrote:
       | I imagine that Apple would never bring back an iPod in the future
       | with the clicky wheel because it could be perceived as 'backwards
       | looking' and cuts against their desired image as 'innovators' who
       | bring out the 'next thing'. Bit sad, because my memory of the
       | later generations of the Nano is that it was an excellent device.
       | 
       | It's probably true that most people just get their music and
       | podcasts through streaming services on their phones though, so
       | perhaps they don't care to keep a niche product around.
        
         | darknavi wrote:
         | Give it another decade and maybe something like the Analogue
         | Pocket will come out. AnaloguePod?
        
           | DizzyDoo wrote:
           | I think we'd all probably welcome that... except Apple,
           | because I just did a quick Google and it does look like Apple
           | have successfully patented (Patent 7,932,897) the clicky
           | wheel input. So I don't think a US based company like
           | Analogue could get away with that!
        
             | nicolas_t wrote:
             | They're HK based, but I doubt that that would help all that
             | much.
        
       | karmakaze wrote:
       | I've owned so many iPods from the very first and loved each one.
       | Now I don't care for ~iTunes~/Apple Music and the dumbed-down
       | walled garden that it lives it. It's not even because I carry a
       | smartphone. Just the other day I was researching non-Apple music
       | players.
       | 
       | To me the iPod died with the introduction of the Touch which was
       | a cheap iPhone, that had lower quality standards even in the area
       | of sound quality. iPhones have no headphone jack so they're not
       | suitable listening devices if you care about audio quality (or
       | are willing to carry an external DAC). Apple Music makes nothing
       | about managing music on any Apple device great.
       | 
       | M1 Macs are doing well, and still waiting to see what happens
       | with iPadOS and if it can live up the the 'OS' name in terms of
       | creation not consumption apps.
        
         | astrange wrote:
         | > iPhones have no headphone jack so they're not suitable
         | listening devices if you care about audio quality (or are
         | willing to carry an external DAC).
         | 
         | The $9 official headphone dongle is a superior DAC to most
         | audiophile products and has a bigger R&D budget than that
         | entire industry. Same goes for Google's USBC dongle.
         | 
         | https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/r...
         | 
         | You can still carry around an amp if you have very power hungry
         | headphones though. Personally, I don't think I could ABX lossy
         | audio while outside dodging cars in the crosswalk.
        
       | robotnikman wrote:
       | I remember having one in highschool, good times, back when all
       | the games on the app store were maybe a few $ at most and in app
       | purchases were mostly unheard of.
       | 
       | iShoot was one of my favorite games to play on it, I miss it.
        
       | Maursault wrote:
       | I don't get it. Though iPod _Touch_ is a lotta bit of feature
       | creep, surely the portable media player market is still
       | profitable. I just want it to play music and fit all my music in
       | my change pocket. Bring back the iPod Shuffle!
        
         | Zigurd wrote:
         | Dedicated music players has become an audiophile market. That
         | means volumes are too low for a company that sells enough
         | Airpods for that business alone to be almost 10X the revenue of
         | Snapchat, while being under 5% of Apple revenue. You have to
         | use a microscope to see the iPod numbers.
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | It exists. See things like the recent Sony Walkmans. But my
         | guess is it's quite small and Apple doesn't see it as worth
         | spending time on.
         | 
         | For a company their size I don't think they're wrong. It's
         | never going to move the needle any noticeable amount for them.
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | You can still buy new portable music players, including some
         | Sony branded walkmans, but at least the Sony ones are just with
         | an expensive DAC, some hardware buttons and interally run
         | Android. Probably has too, because most people get their music
         | through streaming.
        
         | frickinLasers wrote:
         | Yeah, I still run with a 20-ish year old Shuffle, waiting for
         | the day it falls apart.
        
           | Teknoman117 wrote:
           | Hey, the iPod Shuffle is 17 years old. Don't take those 3
           | years from me lol. I'm still smarting from the loss of the
           | two pandemic years. :)
        
         | alfanick wrote:
         | Thank you for reminding me iPod Shuffle! Gosh, this was a crazy
         | good thing. Now everything is in an (i)Phone... Shuffle was
         | honestly the first mass-market wearable device that worked. I
         | love not taking my phone on a longer runs/hikes, but I want my
         | music. With 2022 Apple Shuffle I could have my Apple Music with
         | me lightweight, but I cannot. Sure I could used Apple Watch for
         | this, but I'm in Garmin ecosystem... sigh. Gimme my music
         | without transferring MP3 files I can buy on Amazon or directly
         | from the artist to my Garmin watch, so I could just run with my
         | watch.
         | 
         | Or you know, Garmin, split-off your wearables division in
         | separate company, Apple buys it, Apple takes some Garmin
         | thingies into Apple Watch, create Apple Watch Pro based on
         | Garmin Hardware and sports functions, add Apple software and
         | we're golden. This is a business advice, if Garmin/Apple decide
         | to do this, compensate me. /s
        
           | Kerrick wrote:
           | SanDisk still makes simple, small, portable music players.
        
         | DocTomoe wrote:
         | Isn't that what the Apple Watch is supposed to do?
         | 
         | I agree that a relatively simple, relatively low-priced media
         | player with great build quality would have a market - but Apple
         | would be cannibalising it's 'fitness-oriented' market if they
         | allowed both the Shuffle and the Watch to exist.
        
           | lostgame wrote:
           | Yeah, but you can't use the Watch as a standalone device
           | (something that, as a WatchOS developer, I have always found
           | stupid beyond reason...it should just have limited
           | functionality on its own, including media playback) - if you
           | could, not only would they sell millions upon millions more
           | of them, but it could be a reasonable replacement for an
           | iPod.
           | 
           | Until then, if you want to use it as an 'iPod', it's just
           | another expense on top of the iPhone you already have that's
           | your 'iPod'.
           | 
           | Apple cancelling the iPod line completely is frankly dumb. I
           | know at least a dozen parents who use these for their kids.
           | 
           | Also, what's with all the people suggesting parents just buy
           | an iPhone with no sim? Y'all realize that the cheapest iPhone
           | is twice as much as the $199 iPod Touch? :/
        
             | mulderc wrote:
             | The watch isn't 100% standalone but I have no issues
             | listening to music and podcasts away from my phone and I
             | think people using it for listening to music while
             | exercising away from the phone is a huge selling point for
             | many people.
        
             | alphabettsy wrote:
             | They've made it so that the Watch can be used as a child
             | device assuming a parent uses an iPhone.
        
             | can16358p wrote:
             | Watch + Bluetooth headphones go great together.
             | 
             | Especially if you're on Wi-Fi and I believe on cellular (we
             | still don't have it here in 3rd world) you can just go
             | hiking with the watch and stream your music on Bluetooth
             | without phone.
             | 
             | Same for messaging, fitness tracking, and voice calls. I
             | think it's enough for that device.
        
             | Adraghast wrote:
             | What exactly are you asking for the Watch to do? I load
             | mine with music to play while my phone is in a gym locker
             | all the time. Do you just want to be able to get files onto
             | it without needing an iPhone? There are "millions upon
             | millions" of people clamoring for that feature?
        
           | bsimpson wrote:
           | iPod Wear
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | These days you get more storage and better form factor with an
         | Apple Watch combined with a bluetooth headset/buds.
        
       | javier_e06 wrote:
       | I have the ipod nano 7th gen with a radio tuner! I also have the
       | 1st gen apple shuffle, that one that looks like a usb stick. I
       | hate all things apple (The Disney of Story Telling) but those 2
       | gadgets I keep in the kitchen crap drawer.
        
       | tempnow987 wrote:
       | My standard view is, you should be able to read just the
       | headlines and have some clue about what is happening. Modern
       | marketing means headlines have gone to absolute trash. You can't
       | tell product updates from just stupid SEO spam articles (tips to
       | do x with y). You can't tell product intros from outros.
       | 
       | I do like AWS style announcements. Their headlines are a bit
       | long, but skimming them it's the what, and then the tag
       | 
       | https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/
       | 
       | For week in review I wish they did parens for services - ie, Week
       | in review (RDS, IAM, ECS).
       | 
       | Some services are basically dead from an updates perspective,
       | others like RDS seem to have pretty solid budgets.
        
         | leokennis wrote:
         | Those AWS headlines are perfect! I try to aim for the same in
         | my e-mail subjects:
         | 
         | <this happened>: <this is what it means> - <this is what you
         | need to do>
         | 
         | Example: "Database X ran out of space: all orders since 20-04
         | 14:30 are stuck - request to increase space"
        
           | tempnow987 wrote:
           | Awesome, I like it. I've been putting more in my subjects
           | recently to good effect.
           | 
           | No one wants to read a long email from what I see. "hey
           | john... " just isn't great.
        
         | tmountain wrote:
         | My morbid hot take on the headline was that they'd be allowing
         | you to will your digital music collection to a family member as
         | some kind of covid related estate planning marketing.
         | 
         | Turns out it was something much more benign, but I agree that
         | headlines have gone straight to hell these days.
        
       | ricardobeat wrote:
       | Sad news. I've been waiting for a chin-less upgrade for a while,
       | it made for an amazing gaming/music device, and also a cheap
       | high-quality touch screen remote for random hacks.
        
       | wollsmoth wrote:
       | RIP. I still have a classic in a box somewhere.
        
       | Wump wrote:
       | Maybe they'll finally remove "iPod Touch (7th generation)" as the
       | default selected simulator in XCode :)
        
       | mjr00 wrote:
       | I had a 6th gen iPod Classic that I used for almost 15 years
       | before it finally died on me a few months back. Dedicated music
       | players nowadays are a niche market, so it was really hard to
       | find a replacement. I ended up getting a FiiO M5, and while it's
       | definitely got some pros -- much better sound quality, can pop in
       | a 512GB/1TB SD card for effectively infinite space for compressed
       | songs, can play FLAC/WAV/OGG -- the ergonomics of the iPod were
       | just so much better. It's funny how seemingly little things can
       | be so frustrating: there's only enough space on the screen for 4
       | names at a time, the scrolling isn't adaptive so it takes forever
       | to get to the bottom, the play order isn't consistent with the
       | song display order within a folder... I used to love just
       | browsing my music collection on my iPod on the train to work, but
       | with the M5 I'll just pick an album or playlist and press play.
       | It's just not as fun to flip through music.
       | 
       | I don't consider myself an Apple fanboy, but the iPod was a rock
       | solid product that got all of the little things right. Given that
       | the market for standalone DAPs is tiny because most people today
       | just use their phones and music streaming apps, it's unlikely
       | that we'll ever see a music player that compares to it.
        
         | cush wrote:
         | It's a shame that personal music players are still so niche.
         | The hardware coming out of China right now blows any phone out
         | of the water in terms of usability, performance, and battery
         | life, all at a fraction of the cost.
         | 
         | We're in a Renaissance age of mobile listening thanks to ChiFi.
         | I love carrying around a second device that has no persistent
         | connection to the internet, no notifications, and can drive any
         | headphones I throw at it... With sideloaded Audible and Tidal
         | to boot.
         | 
         | Media used to be this easy and pleasurable to consume before
         | phones got it the way.
        
           | bigbillheck wrote:
           | > The hardware coming out of China right now blows any phone
           | out of the water in terms of usability, performance, and
           | battery life,
           | 
           | Can you point to anything in particular? I bought a Chinese
           | mp3 player earlier this year and it's a piece of junk.
        
           | rahimnathwani wrote:
           | "can drive any headphones"
           | 
           | Can it drive Bluetooth headphones? That's the only reason I
           | no longer use my Xduoo X3.
           | 
           | If I had something similar (small, minimal screen, dual TF
           | slots) that worked with Bluetooth, I'd use it all the time.
        
             | zls wrote:
             | Well, if you use Bluetooth you're no longer using the DAC
             | inside the DAP, so it's not "driving" the headphones in the
             | sense that GP meant. That said, most DAPs support bluetooth
             | these days, with trendy codecs like LDAC, aptX-HD, etc.
             | However, eschewing the device DAC kinda wastes a lot of the
             | money you spent on the DAP.
             | 
             | For Bluetooth usage a year or two ago I would have
             | recommended the Shanling M0. All these devices have awful
             | touchscreens and the M0 is no exception, but it's tiny,
             | light, and has long battery life. Unfortunately, in this
             | space the manufacturers tend to discontinue products in
             | favor of new ones within a year.
        
           | zls wrote:
           | Battery life? Usability? Renaissance?? Have I been trying the
           | wrong DAPs?
           | 
           | I'm also really into single-purpose electronics. My whole
           | library is FLAC, so these players should be right up my
           | alley. Except they tend to be heavy and expensive, and when
           | it comes to UI, either they're using Android poorly, with
           | incredibly bad battery life (HiBy R5/R6, Fiio M9, A&K
           | anything), or they're using a custom UI with pre-iPod UX
           | sensibilities. And even when they use Android, they try to
           | graft their own UI onto it, so that in the end you have the
           | worst of both worlds -- just watch what happens to the volume
           | settings on any Android-based HiBy DAP after connecting with
           | Bluetooth.
           | 
           | The communities that buy this stuff are much more into the
           | technical and theoretical sound quality than how it actually
           | comes together as a product. The marketing reflects that; the
           | product pages are all litanies of incremental DAC processor
           | upgrades, circuit diagrams, and cryptic audio codecs. And
           | because this is what folks care about, it's hard to find
           | reviewers who even mention into UX.
           | 
           | If you have a rec I'm all ears, because I'm on the verge of
           | resuscitating my original Pixel just for this.
        
             | thorncorona wrote:
             | Just get an old iphone tbh. They have great DACs built in
             | and support iOS apps.
        
           | chrisseaton wrote:
           | > all at a fraction of the cost
           | 
           | But you already have a phone (I guess) so the cost you're
           | competing against is zero.
        
             | refactor_master wrote:
             | So in fact it's actually entirely additional cost.
        
             | Tenoke wrote:
             | Not for phones without SD cards on which you might have
             | limited space or for situations/phones where you have to
             | conserve battery.
        
               | chrisseaton wrote:
               | Phones come with like 128 GB of storage. Not all is
               | usable but that accommodates like four days of continuous
               | uncompressed music. How long do you really go without a
               | network connection and need music for?
               | 
               | Also I think they playback with hardware don't they? They
               | aren't running the CPU. It uses a trickle of charge just
               | like your iPod.
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | You might consider:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30345399
        
         | TavsiE9s wrote:
         | I've recently revived a 6th gen iPod Classic with a flash
         | adapter and rockbox, it's been great so far.
        
         | femiagbabiaka wrote:
         | If building your own isn't acceptable, I like the Sony Walkman
         | series quite a bit. I have a WM1A and a ZX300 and I have
         | minimal complaints other than they cost way too much. There are
         | also a bunch of Chinese brands making players with decent
         | DAC's, but they all use the same Android interface with minimal
         | tweaks for the most part, the battery life and UX sucks..
         | Definitely wish there were more high quality off the shelf
         | players for the non-audiophile who doesn't want to use their
         | phone for everything.
        
           | csdvrx wrote:
           | > I like the Sony Walkman series quite a bit.
           | 
           | Can you recommend an audio player with a better UX than the
           | default Sony app?
        
         | paulmd wrote:
         | Fiio does have the X5 which has a similar jogwheel but I agree
         | with you that the lack of exponential scrolling does make it
         | annoying. Not sure if that's patent-encumbered (fuck UX
         | patents) or what.
         | 
         | Rockbox does have exponential scrolling, but only supports a
         | limited list of hardware. There is an "unstable port" for the
         | Fiio M3k but that's not what either of us own ;)
         | 
         | Might be a good project for someone here who wants to play with
         | embedded hardware! It's one of those situations where once you
         | get it up and going on a particular set of hardware, you will
         | benefit from a lot of "passive" development from others, both
         | past and future.
        
         | windowsrookie wrote:
         | iPods have made a bit of a comeback. Checkout r/iPod there's
         | people modding them by adding bluetooth and USB-C. There are
         | adapters to replace the hard drive with MicroSD. (iFlash)
         | 
         | They (iPods) are relatively simple and new replacement parts
         | are readily available. Pick up an old iPod off ebay and install
         | a new battery. It's a fun little project, I've done it a few
         | times now.
        
       | nfriedly wrote:
       | Shucks. I was hoping they'd finally release a new one.
       | 
       | I have an old 6th gen iPod touch that I recently replaced the
       | battery in, and my son uses it a lot. I had thought about getting
       | another one for my daughter, but I was waiting in hopes that
       | apple would release an 8th gen sometime soon.
        
       | musesum wrote:
       | Live music provided a sense of belonging.
       | 
       | Radio provided shared stories and feelings.
       | 
       | The Walkman provided a soundtrack for my life.
       | 
       | The iPod provided a full solo theater of emotions.
       | 
       | Smart playlists now provide a feeling of serendipity.
       | 
       | But, that personalized experience feels selfish and hollow.
       | 
       | Maybe I should get out more.
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | I had an iPod something-or-other, and I think it gave Spotify the
       | idea of shuffling maybe 45 songs of thousands over-and-over, and
       | completely ignoring 93 percent of the music.
       | 
       | I might pick one of these up so I can do that now in color.
        
         | GekkePrutser wrote:
         | This is a problem with Spotify's shuffling algorithm. It's
         | really stupid, it ignores some songs completely.
         | 
         | They used to have a good algorithm, but because it was truly
         | random, some users complained about hearing the same artist
         | quickly in sequence.
         | 
         | Instead of implementing a list of recently played songs they
         | changed the algorithm to be 'smart' but it's actually quite
         | dumb because it really never plays some songs. Especially when
         | you have only a few artists in the playlist, and some with less
         | songs than others. As I tend to do.
         | 
         | They say it's "more appealing to the human brain" but I think
         | it stinks. I wish they had an option to switch back a truly
         | random one. If I don't like a song I'll skip it anyway. But
         | never presenting some is worse.
         | 
         | https://medium.com/immensity/how-spotifys-shuffle-algorithm-...
        
       | sleepybrett wrote:
       | unfortunate, the ipod touch was a super handy device for all
       | kinds of applications. Great for giving to kids so they could
       | have an 'iphone'. Bought a ton of these back in the day and
       | paired them to bluetooth pairable RFID reader/writer guns for an
       | RFID retail POC. Nice to be able to write software for a platform
       | you know, or can easily hire for, and deploy it to this kind of
       | device. They often have either weird built in SOCs with
       | proprietary apis for UIs.. though sometimes you are now seeing
       | built in android devices so _shrug_.
       | 
       | End of an era I guess. Couldn't just rebrand it the 'iPad Micro'
       | and keep selling it :)
        
         | skinnymuch wrote:
         | The retail price is probably the issue. Apple isn't really in
         | the business [yet] of selling $200 hardware. The iPad Mini is
         | $130 more than the cheapest iPad. Vs having a model cheaper
         | than the cheapest iPad.
         | 
         | It would be funny and maybe even possible! To have a comeback
         | as an iPad Micro and be the size of the normal iPhones or the
         | current 13 Mini. Though I heard because of its unique size for
         | apple hardware, some apps don't look correct on it.
         | 
         | Edit: I flubbed. Apple TV has to be under $200. Maybe their
         | Alexa competitor too.
        
       | gjulianm wrote:
       | I still have a 4th gen iPod Nano, that despite some heavy use in
       | the past still works and plays music perfectly well. I remember
       | it fondly, it was a very well designed piece of hardware. Light,
       | easy controls that could be used without looking, durable,
       | small...
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | A10 Fusion chip from 5 years back, must be discontinuing the line
        
         | mdasen wrote:
         | Possibly. Apple had used the A10 in the 7th generation iPad
         | released in September 2019 so it's not quite as old in terms of
         | prime usage as the iPhone would suggest. iPhones have often
         | been a few generations ahead of other Apple devices.
         | 
         | The Apple A10 first released 5.5 years ago in the iPhone 7
         | Geekbenches at 555 single-core in the iPod (1.6GHz) and 722-750
         | in the iPhone 7/iPad (2.3GHz). Multicore is 1069 for the iPod
         | and 1280-1398 for iPhone/iPad. That single-core speed matches
         | up nicely against processors used in current Android phones
         | like the Snapdragon 690 (571-590), Snapdragon 778G (714-777),
         | Snapdragon 750 (582-643), or Snapdragon 765G (570-593). It's
         | kinda amazing how Apple's A10 from 2016 matches up against the
         | best non-flagship (non-8-series) Qualcomm processors for
         | single-core performance.
         | 
         | I'd guess it might be more around how long Apple wants to
         | support iOS on the hardware. The iPhone 6s (A9) has access to
         | the latest iOS (7 major versions), but I think there's a decent
         | chance that it won't get iOS 16. That would mean Apple would
         | support the iPhone 6s for 6 years post-introduction and 4 years
         | post-discontinuation. If Apple wants to support the iPod touch
         | for a couple years post-discontinuation, they'd probably want
         | to discontinue it now so that they can stop iOS updates in 2-3
         | years. If they stopped iOS upgrades in 2-3 years, that would
         | mean supporting the iPhone 7 for 7-8 years. That's quite the
         | lifespan for that hardware.
        
       | postit wrote:
       | Just bought one for each of my kids with their names engraved,
       | I'll load with my favorite albums and leave in storage, in 15
       | years there will be a revival of ipods and they'll have a choice
       | to play the hipster card.
        
         | asddubs wrote:
         | That's a bold move for a glued shut device with a built-in
         | battery
        
           | alphabettsy wrote:
           | My iPod Classic is glued shut. It's still serviceable, but
           | hasn't needed any service yet.
        
             | wfhordie wrote:
             | Your iPod Classic not glued shut. It has clips. Very easy
             | to open with a guitar pick.
        
               | Gigachad wrote:
               | In some ways glue is easier than plastic clips. Plastic
               | clips would always snap on me while glue melts under a
               | hair dryer and comes off cleanly.
        
       | Apocryphon wrote:
       | The iPod touch has got to be the last PDA. Smartphones are the
       | realization of the '90s vision of PDAs, with cellular capability
       | and additional features included, but it's interesting how
       | standalone PDAs no longer exist.
        
         | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
         | Nobody would buy a standalone PDA these days, mainly because
         | they'd need one core feature: Access to e-mail. At that point,
         | you need, at the very least, a WiFi connection, but customers
         | would likely expect a cellular connection.
         | 
         | And at that point, bam, you have a phone.
         | 
         | You could try to make it "not a phone" by removing the speaker
         | and microphone, but people will occasionally want to play a
         | game, so you'll need the speaker, and someone might want to
         | record speech for note-taking, so you'll need the microphone.
         | 
         | TBH, I'm not sure how you could possibly make a "not a phone"
         | PDA.
         | 
         | Nobody would buy an offline PDA. At least, not enough people to
         | pay for the development of it.
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | Even back in PalmPilot days, internet connectivity was
           | definitely desirable. I suppose Planet Computers' devices are
           | trying to capture some of the PDA spirit by emphasizing the
           | computing, productivity aspects of smartphones with good
           | keyboards.
           | 
           | https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk
        
       | ilamont wrote:
       | Used the iOS models as a poor man's iPhone (with Skype) and my
       | first connected digital camera to share on Instagram and
       | elsewhere.
        
       | dry_soup wrote:
       | The article notes that the first iPod touch came out in 2007.
       | That was just six years after the first inch-thick iPod with a
       | monochrome screen and magnetic storage. The pace of technology
       | really does seem to have slowed down.
        
       | black_puppydog wrote:
       | Great, then they surely won't hesitate now to release any and all
       | documentation for their old hardware, to prevent millions of
       | devices from becoming useless junk even though they're perfectly
       | fine, hardware wise. I've got a nice iPod touch 6th gen here that
       | will be perfect as an mp3 player on linux or rockbox.
       | 
       | Gonna hold my breath now, okay? :)
       | 
       | /s
        
         | windowsrookie wrote:
         | What exactly do you want them to release? You can still use an
         | original iPod from 2001 if you want.
        
           | mmebane wrote:
           | Driver source code/detailed hardware documentation for all
           | the components. Signing keys to enable proper persistent
           | installation of custom firmware. In a perfect world, source
           | to whatever the final version of iOS to run on it is.
           | 
           | Basically, everything required for third parties to support
           | the devices to the same level that Apple did before
           | discontinuing them.
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | (Getting downvoted for a strong right to repair stance? I
           | wasn't really expecting that here, but OK.)
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | Right. It's totally feasible for a community-maintained
             | firmware to keep these devices alive if there was no
             | barrier to installing custom firmware, Apple ought to have
             | a customary "EOL" update for these devices that allows them
             | to be unlocked if the owner chooses.
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | I'd pay to be in your situation - at least you have the
         | hardware and it's still perfectly usable.
        
           | ddoolin wrote:
           | I mean, you _can_ pay to be in their situation. Just buy one.
        
             | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
             | I'd pay, just not an open-ended amount :) One of my few
             | regrets is not buying a backup classic when I had the
             | chance.
        
               | black_puppydog wrote:
               | huh? I mean, an iPod 6 touch is gonna be much cheaper now
               | than when it launched :P
        
       | lostgame wrote:
       | Lots of frankly silly comments here suggesting parents buy an
       | iPhone without a SIM instead of an iPod Touch?
       | 
       | Assuming you buy them new, the cheapest iPhone is $399 vs. the
       | $199 iPod Touch. Buying used is often a mixed bag. An iPad Mini
       | is _$499_!
       | 
       | This is basically _just_ a kick in the pants to parents who
       | bought these for their kids.
       | 
       | Guess those parents are going to go off and buy another brand and
       | type of product now, since Apple refuses to offer a price-
       | equivalent product for kids like this. I don't think it would've
       | hurt Apple to keep producing this product...
        
       | kawsper wrote:
       | I guess that was destined to happen.
       | 
       | I still use my 6th generation iPod Nano, mostly for radio, but
       | the usefulness of it is dwindling as more and more stations move
       | away from the FM-band and go digital, it's still a cool device
       | and it also still works with Music/iTunes.
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | I started using my 6th gen nano again just a couple of weeks
         | ago, after my last-gen iPod classic finally gave up the ghost.
         | I don't know what I'm going to do long-term - the capacity of
         | the nano just isn't enough. It's heartbreaking watching
         | functionality regress like this :(
        
       | SamBam wrote:
       | Perhaps a silly question: is there any way to get music (saved
       | mp3 files) onto an old 5th-gen nano from a Chromebook?
       | 
       | Thinking of getting one for my daughter, who has a Chromebook
       | from school. Of course I could manage it from my Mac, but it
       | would be nice to give her the power.
        
       | Gaussian wrote:
       | I always thought of the iPod as THE inflection point for Apple.
       | Not the 1998 iMac, not the iPhone, even though it was the latter
       | that made Apple the company it is today. But I think the iPod put
       | Apple on a track to get to the iPhone-it's why Apple/Jobs were
       | even thinking about it. The pod and the phone shared form factors
       | and have always been intertwined in my mind. For that reason,
       | when the iPhone came out, I automatically assumed that Apple had
       | just killed its iPod business. I was wrong, but I suppose that it
       | did eventually come to pass... 15 years later.
        
         | Hamuko wrote:
         | > _I was wrong, but I suppose that it did eventually come to
         | pass... 15 years later._
         | 
         | It happened way earlier than 2022. iPod has been in life
         | support for the longest time now and arguably the last true
         | iPod was the last iPod Nano in 2012.
        
           | Gaussian wrote:
           | So you're saying I was _less_ wrong! I knew it. ;)
        
       | KingMachiavelli wrote:
       | Not surprising but it's fun to reminisce about the iPod Touch.
       | While not technically my first iPod/tech device, it was certainly
       | the first computer that was actually my own which was pretty cool
       | in 2008. I certainly attribute my current tech career to
       | Jailbreaking, it was a great way to learn about Unix style
       | systems.
        
       | mwint wrote:
       | The iPod touch was so great for me as a kid, it provided an
       | accessible (read - cheap) platform I could plug into a Mac and
       | deploy iOS apps to at a young age.
       | 
       | Now there's really no reason to keep it around, as you can get an
       | off-contract used iPhone that is better in every dimension for
       | less money. Still feel a bit sad to see it leave.
        
         | stnmtn wrote:
         | I fell in love with computers through jailbreaking iPod
         | touches. Back then, for me a jailbroken ipod felt like there
         | was a whole world waiting for me; and you could tweak anything
         | at all. I eventually started running a mini business at my
         | school, offering to jailbreak anyones ipod/iphone (for a small
         | fee, of course). I would even put a custom boot logo
         | advertising my enterprise on all my customers device. Looking
         | back now, that feels a bit scummy, but at the time I thought it
         | was the coolest thing ever.
        
         | Snowworm wrote:
         | It never left. The iPhone is the new iPod, it just has more
         | features that make it more than just a music player and more
         | importantly has the option for a SIM (although it isn't
         | necessary).
         | 
         | I get what you mean though. I think the iPhone SE has taken its
         | place in terms of affordability.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | End of an era. This was the last iPod still being sold right?
       | Definitely one of the most impactful consumer products/brands
       | ever.
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | The iPod introduced me to Apple's entire ecosystem. Without
         | that early-2000's experience of design, build-quality, and
         | usability, I would probably never have taken the plunge on Mac
         | mini, iPads, and a MacBook.
        
       | oh_hello wrote:
       | This does jump out to me is a surprisingly profound. I was a
       | freshman in college when the iPod first came out. I was a huge
       | Apple fan, but didn't get their move into consumer electronics.
       | It was so expensive. Why weren't they building more cool Macs
       | instead? 10 years later I was putting serious time toward
       | learning how to develop for the App Store. Another 10 years later
       | and that path has had a profound effect on my career and life.
       | Thinking back to the moment my friend Peter showed me the gen 1
       | iPod he bought on launch day, the vision, progression, and
       | brilliance you can tie back to that product is astounding.
        
         | donthellbanme wrote:
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | I haven't tried this in a long time, but is it now possible to
       | set up an iPhone without a SIM card in it?
       | 
       | The last time I tried this (years ago, admittedly) the iPhone
       | would not "activate" without a working SIM card.
        
       | cmckn wrote:
       | My first iPod was the 1st generation Nano. I still think it's one
       | of the most beautiful products ever made. I'll miss the iPod era;
       | they really were just magical products, and probably the reason I
       | became interested in the Mac.
        
       | omar_alt wrote:
       | It would be interesting to show the market capitalisation of all
       | major record labels vs Apple over the last 25 years. File sharing
       | was given a massive leg up at the expense of recorded music and
       | looking back it was really the underground and independent labels
       | that have perished.
       | 
       | When it comes to competing for attention music has a lot more to
       | compete with now than it did then. If I had to predict I can't
       | see a significant cultural change happening like in the 20th
       | century unless new musical instruments are invented
        
       | pachico wrote:
       | At the time I compared different models and none looked good to
       | me as the Archos gmini 220.
       | 
       | iPod users were in awe when saw what this little machine could
       | achieve.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | The end of the podcast?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | technotarek wrote:
       | I've always imagined that an iPod-something would be my child's
       | first camera/media device. We're not ready for that leap yet (at
       | only 3 1/2 yo), but I'm curious -- what are others opting for in
       | this use case?
        
         | SigmundA wrote:
         | iPad has been my kids only device, media, games, school, etc.
         | They are getting to the age where they want phones but we are
         | holding off.
         | 
         | Also they sometimes need to use laptop/desktop for school but
         | that is rare now that most everything works in Safari or there
         | is an app. Even printing etc works great and they love the
         | pencil. They also have mouse and keyboard for them usually for
         | schoolwork.
        
         | lilyball wrote:
         | The iPad works great for young kids. There's a lot of great
         | iPad cases for kids too.
        
         | _fzslm wrote:
         | how about an iPad? mini if the size is a concern for you guys,
         | but the camera is pretty solid, performance means it'll last
         | your kid years, and there are so many edu-tainment titles on
         | the App Store. i think especially the Pencil (or the child-
         | oriented Logitech alternative) would be great to encourage a
         | growing child's creativity, as well as apps like iMovie,
         | GarageBand...
        
         | windowsrookie wrote:
         | I'm assuming just a smartphone without a SIM. That's
         | essentially what the iPod touch was.
        
           | asciimov wrote:
           | Sure, but then you have that background concern about them
           | accidentally dialing 911.
        
             | paxys wrote:
             | Having the ability to dial 911 if needed is probably a good
             | thing.
        
               | dymk wrote:
               | Ehhhh I distinctly remember being around 10 years old,
               | getting a miniature landline phone [1], and dialing 911.
               | Then my parents had to explain to the operator that there
               | was no emergency and how sorry they were. Kids do dumb
               | things.
               | 
               | [1] this kind of thing -
               | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1891964717.html
        
             | boomboomsubban wrote:
             | Can you uninstall the phone app, or whatever Apple calls
             | it? I'm using LineageOS and it looks like I can disable it,
             | though I don't care to try right now.
             | 
             | Plus, it's arguably worth risking accidental 911 calls to
             | allow necessary ones. And landlines have had the same risk
             | for decades.
        
               | asciimov wrote:
               | > Can you uninstall the phone app
               | 
               | You can't uninstall the dialer. As far as I know you
               | can't even lock the dialer down.
               | 
               | > Plus, it's arguably worth risking accidental 911 calls
               | to allow necessary ones
               | 
               | One of my friends kids (about 5) went through a phase
               | where she was fascinated with calling 911. The iPod Touch
               | became the way to handle this, you could hand her the
               | iPod and know she couldn't dial out. Sure an iPad could
               | work, but this girl had siblings and the parents didn't
               | want to have to buy everybody an ipad.
        
               | colejohnson66 wrote:
               | You can't uninstall it, but you can hide it from the home
               | screen
        
             | chimeracoder wrote:
             | > Sure, but then you have that background concern about
             | them accidentally dialing 911.
             | 
             | Kids should be taught about 911 at a very young age anyway.
             | IMO, if they're old enough for an iPod Touch, they're old
             | enough to be taught about 911.
        
         | LargeWu wrote:
         | My kids get our old phones, without cellular capabilities.
         | That's basically what an iPod touch is anyway.
        
           | eddieroger wrote:
           | Kidless adult asking - why not make the device cellularly
           | capable, just limiting calls (if not data-only)? Most of the
           | time they won't need it, but I can see the benefit of having
           | a cellular-capable device in my kid's possession if they ever
           | found themselves in an emergency situation. I would assume
           | cell carriers could limit the device from doing for-cost
           | things, and there are unlimited data plans again.
        
             | LargeWu wrote:
             | For my older child, 10, she has a Gabb watch, with very
             | limited cellular capabilities and low monthly cost. My
             | other kid, 7, is unlikely to be in a situation where he's
             | without adult supervision, so not really worth it. Besides,
             | I don't really want my kids to have unfettered internet
             | access, especially when unsupervised.
        
             | xahrepap wrote:
             | Pretty sure Cell Phones in the US are still able to call
             | 911 even without a sim card or an active plan.
             | 
             | So a sim-less phone would still allow for an emergency call
             | in that sense.
        
             | xeromal wrote:
             | Young kids (3 years old) have a knack for finding naughty
             | things.
             | 
             | My mom's bf's 6 year old loves sonic and loves playing
             | sonic video on youtube. We were having dinner and it had
             | autoplayed into some naughty sonic furry stuff and we had
             | to change it also while trying to maintain his innocence
             | and not explain things he might not be ready for. lol. This
             | was last year which I think is after youtube really tried
             | to improve video for children but it still happened
             | somehow.
             | 
             | I remember being 9-10 years old and accidentally clicking a
             | popup and learning about genitals. It's not the best way to
             | learn as a kid. It's better coming from their parents.
        
               | paulmd wrote:
               | > I remember being 9-10 years old and accidentally
               | clicking a popup and learning about genitals.
               | 
               | X10 popup ads claim another victim ;)
               | 
               | those things were _everywhere_ back in the day!
        
               | xeromal wrote:
               | They were! And we didn't have popup blockers. lol. I
               | remember you could mess up and accidentally open 1000s of
               | windows (we didn't even have tabs then. lol)
        
             | windowsrookie wrote:
             | Because you don't want kids having access to the internet
             | unsupervised for obvious reasons.
             | 
             | My little cousins (under 12 years old) get a cellular Apple
             | Watch. That allows their parent to always know where they
             | are and can contact them, but prevents the kids from being
             | able to use the internet.
        
         | danieldk wrote:
         | Our daughter first had two generations of iPod Touch. However,
         | one big downside is that the screen is tiny compared with other
         | devices. About a year ago or so, she switched to an old iPhone
         | 6s without a SIM card and it's fine for Facetiming/messaging
         | with her grandparents and photos.
        
           | nytesky wrote:
           | How did you get iPhone to enable iMessage without a phone
           | number?
        
             | JKCalhoun wrote:
             | iCloud messaging?
        
             | jaywalk wrote:
             | iMessage doesn't require a phone number, it can use email
             | addresses as well.
        
       | jimt1234 wrote:
       | Sorta-related topic: I like to listen to music while I run. I
       | currently use a 7th Gen iPod Nano. It works because it's small
       | and it has Bluetooth; I just put it in my pocket and go. However,
       | I would rather have this same functionality (play music,
       | Bluetooth) on a wristwatch device, as the iPod bouncing around in
       | my pocket can be kinda annoying.
       | 
       | All the popular "smart watch" devices are packed with
       | functionality I just don't want - not interested in having my
       | fitness tracked or reading text messages while I run. I just want
       | music and Bluetooth, and I guess a stopwatch/timer, too. That's
       | it.
       | 
       | I've looked around and the best I could find was a wristwatch
       | device straight outta Shenzhen. I bought it, and unsurprisingly,
       | it was junk.
       | 
       | Does anyone know of a quality wristwatch device that _only_ plays
       | music and has Bluetooth (and stopwatch /timer)? Does a product
       | like this exist? Or, is it "smart watch" or nothing (or junk)?
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | Take a look at Garmin's products. Does what you want, and if
         | there is no model that _doesn 't_ do what you _don 't_ want,
         | just don't turn those features on. For example, I already have
         | an Apple Watch, I don't care about "smart watch" stuff on my
         | Garmin. But their top-of-the-line 945LTE that I bought for
         | running also has "smart watch". I just want running stuff, so I
         | simply did not pair the watch with my phone. There, no smart
         | stuff. (Granted, I guess I'm paying for features I don't
         | use...)
        
         | softfalcon wrote:
         | Yeah, my Apple Watch does this. You can also uninstall all the
         | apps and disable all the notifications to make it dumb so it
         | only plays music.
         | 
         | I know a few folks who bought the older models or the new Apple
         | Watch SE solely for this purpose.
         | 
         | Is it more expensive than an iPod? Yup.
         | 
         | Does it work amazing when running? Also, yup.
        
         | astrange wrote:
         | It's easier to just get a smartwatch and turn the stuff you
         | don't care about off. It's not like the watch's feelings will
         | be hurt if you don't use it.
        
           | Wojakmeme wrote:
           | How do you know that exactly?
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | I want to think the iPod just became the iPhone without the LTE
       | radio, and manufacturing more iPhones is simply cheaper for
       | Apple. Is there any difference between the iPod touch and the
       | iPhone for media consumption?
        
         | devindotcom wrote:
         | Try turning that thought around and you may see why it makes
         | more sense to discontinue. If Apple can get someone to spend an
         | extra $100 on a base-level iPhone instead of an iPod Touch, the
         | margins aren't as good but the product pipeline is simpler and
         | suddenly they're a convert to the iOS ecosystem and all the
         | revenue that brings. It just doesn't make sense to offer a
         | disconnected iPhone type device any more.
        
           | paulmd wrote:
           | Don't ipods run ios as well? If you can buy apps and stuff,
           | that's the same thing from Apple's perspective.
           | 
           | As a variation of the iPhone 7, maybe they just want to
           | finally be done with that era of hardware and having to
           | manufacture chips for it (although they've been great about
           | support), and the volume definitely isn't there to justify an
           | update to a more modern chip.
        
       | alexott wrote:
       | I'm using 13 old iPod for one simple reason - its very handy for
       | music and podcasts. Just set the play list "didn't listen for N
       | weeks" and music is automatically synced, listened podcasts are
       | removed and new are uploaded, etc.
        
       | GeekyBear wrote:
       | Looking online, a used 256 Gig iPhone 8 from Gazelle is about
       | $150 cheaper than a new 256 Gig iPod Touch despite having a newer
       | SOC.
       | 
       | https://buy.gazelle.com/collections/iphones/products/iphone-...
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | You see the same difference between a SmartTV and a DumbTV.
         | 
         | The iPhone is cheaper because it really is a vending machine in
         | disguise.
        
           | MBCook wrote:
           | How so?
           | 
           | An iPod Touch and an iPhone run the exact same apps.
        
           | GeekyBear wrote:
           | Before depreciation, the iPhone was the more expensive
           | device.
           | 
           | "Smart" TVs are cheaper because the manufacturer is selling
           | your data.
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | That's mainly Vizio. There just isn't much point in making
             | a dumb TV when the smarts are free. Saves having a Netflix
             | dongle too.
             | 
             | Do wonder why LG OLEDs fall so hard in price after a year
             | but there's probably an innocent explanation.
        
       | GekkePrutser wrote:
       | Crap :( I always loved the iPod Touch as a secure but tiny
       | device. I use it like a "Secure Element" with my most trusted
       | stuff on it.
       | 
       | I hope the current generation goes on offer before they sell out.
       | Here in Europe there's never been a significant sale on them. I
       | got my current previous-gen for 139 euro but the current model
       | has never been below 200 here.
       | 
       | An iPhone is way too expensive (even the SE is ridiculously
       | expensive in Europe) and I don't want second-hand / "refurbished"
       | crap that third party sellers will have put questionable
       | batteries in. And I don't need a SIM.
       | 
       | But I guess what I want is a really small niche.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | greenie_beans wrote:
       | but does it have a headphone jack tho
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | It does.
        
       | ErneX wrote:
       | "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame"
       | 
       | 20 years, huge run.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Some form of Slashdot finally outlives the iPod.
         | 
         | https://apple.slashdot.org/story/22/05/10/1650258/the-ipod-i...
        
       | gtvwill wrote:
       | Eh another lump in apples pile of "it still works but now it
       | e-waste" design strat. Just like the early gen still working but
       | discontinued and no longer supported iPads on my cupboard next to
       | me.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | at_a_remove wrote:
       | I have been considering getting some kind of dedicated music-
       | playing device. I have a very cheap plan and am not interested in
       | streaming. So I guess this gets ruled out, although the Itunes
       | reputation itself was already something of a negative.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | The current iPod touch runs iOS 15 and will be just as good 5
         | years from now.
         | 
         | The only downside of buying a discontinued Apple product is
         | knowing that you'll have to switch devices if/when it dies, but
         | even that's mitigated by the fact that you'll likely be able to
         | buy used ones for many years.
        
       | newsclues wrote:
       | Bring back the iPod Classic with a click wheel, modern
       | connectivity for BL and WiFi to get podcasts and solid state
       | storage please.
       | 
       | I don't want a phone (all the time) anymore.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | The day before the first iPod was to launch a co-worker (in
         | marketing, at Apple) loaned me an iPod to take home over night.
         | To this day I am blown away as to how that happened. No way
         | that could have happened with the first iPhone. (In case he was
         | not supposed to do so I'll withhold his name.)
         | 
         | We (the family) were at a car dealership that evening and to
         | entertain my 3 year old I put the ear buds in her ears and gave
         | her the iPod to rock out to.
         | 
         | Perhaps unsurprisingly, no one batted and eye or seemed to take
         | notice of a little girl sporting the white earbuds that would
         | become so iconic later.
         | 
         | Related memory _after_ the iPhone had come out: I remember
         | being on a train in Tokyo where, counting the two other Apple
         | employees with me, we all three had our iPhones out.
         | 
         | Looking around the train though at all the Tokyo-ites with
         | their flip phones and lanyards I began to doubt whether the
         | iPhone was ever going to be able to conquer Japan. If for no
         | other reason, where do you attach a lanyard?
         | 
         | (Or maybe there's a better term for that bit of
         | "personalization" that dangled like a tassel from all the cool,
         | urban Japanese flip-phones.)
        
           | flyingfences wrote:
           | > (Or maybe there's a better term for that bit of
           | "personalization" that dangled like a tassel from all the
           | cool, urban Japanese flip-phones.)
           | 
           | I believe the Japanese call it a "strap", transliterated
           | directly.
        
           | paulmd wrote:
           | it's continually bizarre to me that Japan exists as a tiny
           | insular market that gets all kinds of products and devices
           | that never make it anywhere else, not even china or the rest
           | of SEA.
           | 
           | The rest of the world we never stop hearing about 'there
           | isn't a market for X' but Japan is this tiny market that gets
           | their own things all the time.
        
         | Zhenya wrote:
         | I just wish there was a good way to sync Spotify/YTM playlists
         | to these offline devices.
         | 
         | What I have seen is using the 5th gen iPods with new firmware
         | is great.
        
       | no-dr-onboard wrote:
       | "the music _lives_ on" as a title to describe the death of the
       | iPod is such an intolerable attempt at paltering.
       | 
       | As my XO used to say, "Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's
       | raining."
        
         | j16sdiz wrote:
         | (Non-English native speaker here) What is a "XO"?
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | GP programmed an AI that could run on a green OLPC computer.
        
           | austinsharp wrote:
           | "Executive officer" - used in the military, from what I am
           | aware.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_officer
        
             | adolph wrote:
             | the language is more 1SG, an XO communicates via ppt
             | 
             | Slide 1: Leg: Anatomy and Function of Bones and Muscles,
             | Plus Diagram
             | 
             | Slide 2: Establishment of ownership of leg to a soldier,
             | attached and special conditions of detachment
             | 
             | Slide n: ... blase blase blase
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | prionassembly wrote:
           | He's a Cylon, but he's on your side.
        
         | MisterSandman wrote:
         | Is XO a typo of SO or a very interesting acronym
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | > _" the music _lives_ on" as a title to describe the death of
         | the iPod is such an intolerable attempt at paltering._
         | 
         | Only if you're reading it as a discontinuation notice, but the
         | purpose of the release is far broader than that. It's a
         | celebration of the impact the iPod touch has had on the world,
         | a prompt to iPod touch fans that this is their last chance to
         | buy a new one, and a reminder that Apple continues to express
         | its love of music through other products.
         | 
         | I understand none of that will resonate with you or seem
         | authentic to you, which is fine since you're not the audience
         | for it. For someone who grew up with an iPod touch, it's going
         | to seem as sincere and bittersweet as the person who wrote it
         | intended.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Yes, if the corporate press release isn't the most insufferable
         | genre that exists, I'm not sure what is. We've changed the
         | title above, in keeping with HN's title rule. More at
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31331736.
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | pal*ter | 'polt@r |                 verb [no object] archaic
         | 1 equivocate or prevaricate in action or speech: if you palter
         | or double in your answers, I will have thee hung alive in an
         | iron chain.       2 (palter with) trifle with: this great work
         | should not be paltered with.              DERIVATIVES
         | palterer noun            ORIGIN       mid 16th century (in the
         | sense 'mumble or babble'): of unknown origin.
        
       | ______-_-______ wrote:
       | A very carefully worded press release. They didn't want to come
       | out and say it, but the iPod product line has been discontinued.
        
         | tiahura wrote:
         | The subheading is "iPod touch will be available while supplies
         | last"
         | 
         | Seemed straight forward to me.
        
           | theandrewbailey wrote:
           | No, it doesn't. It sounds like they're having a buy one get
           | one free sale, not a discontinuation.
        
         | mgarciaisaia wrote:
         | I understand it's really carefully worded, but I tend to feel
         | insulted by a press release that says everything _except_ the
         | message, to make it less harsh.
         | 
         | Be honest.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Yes. We've changed the title above. More at
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31331736.
        
       | jfultz wrote:
       | Looks like Apple's dumping their final handheld* device with a
       | 3.5mm headphone jack. Let's once more admire their courage.
       | 
       | * There's still one iPad model with a headphone jack, but that's
       | not quite in my definition of "handheld".
        
         | nicolas_t wrote:
         | I just wished that all other vendors didn't follow in that
         | stupidity.
        
           | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
           | 100%
           | 
           | Other vendors fail to understand that sometimes the reason
           | people use their product is because it's not Apple. Most of
           | the regressions I've seen in the Windows 11 UI/UX are from
           | them trying to imitate Apple.
        
       | dangoor wrote:
       | This seems like the most indirect way possible to say "we're
       | discontinuing the last iPod". _Most_ of the content of this press
       | release is fine, in my opinion, but saying "iPod Touch is
       | available while supplies last" just doesn't seem like a great way
       | to phrase it.
       | 
       | Am I wrong about that?
        
         | jrockway wrote:
         | Google had this down to a science. "An update on..." was the
         | best possible business euphemism for cancelling something, and
         | they did it every time, so you didn't have to read the rest of
         | the article/blog post. "The music lives on" just isn't as good.
         | I know Apple didn't want to copy Google here, but they should
         | have. "An update on [the] iPod Touch". Easy. You know what the
         | update is.
        
         | chipotle_coyote wrote:
         | "The Music Lives On" is the part that makes me chuckle at them
         | being Excessively Apple about it, really. I understand they may
         | not have wanted "Finally Killing the iPod" as the headline, or
         | even "The iPod is Gone, but the Music Lives On", but I can't
         | help think of Phil Schiller standing on stage a few years back
         | describing removing the headphone jack as "courage".
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | > _This seems like the most indirect way possible to say "we're
         | discontinuing the last iPod"._
         | 
         | To me, the subhead "iPod touch will be available while supplies
         | last" succinctly performs double-duty: (1) We discontinued iPod
         | touch, and (2) if you want (another) one, this is your last
         | chance.
        
         | bredren wrote:
         | I think you're right. Even this seems like a pretty minor
         | sendoff for such a massively popular product, though.
         | 
         | Will iPhone some day be quietly, ambiguously sent to the grave
         | in a similar fashion?
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Agreed. I've changed the title above. If there's a more
         | accurate and neutral title, we can change it again.
         | 
         | HN's title rule is " _Please use the original title, unless it
         | is misleading or linkbait_ ", and corporate press release
         | titles are usually both. For that reason we usually rewrite
         | them.
         | 
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | libria wrote:
         | "Wow, iPods, it's been a wild ride, amirite?"
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | It is in the same vein as when a company uses "process
         | optimization" to mean a firing round.
         | 
         | I guess Apple marketing team didn't want to put it clearly what
         | they are doing.
        
         | starik36 wrote:
         | One would think people write these missives, but on further
         | thought, it might be OpenAI trained on 1000s of previously
         | similarly obfuscated press releases.
        
         | croddin wrote:
         | It's like a TikTok video plot: Tell me you are discontinuing a
         | product line without telling me you are discontinuing a product
         | line.
        
         | smrtinsert wrote:
         | I remember when a key selling point of the iphone was that
         | "there is an ipod _inside_ it! "
        
         | stuart78 wrote:
         | I read it like three times to see if I'd missed it. Very
         | strange approach to this. There is no shame in celebrating its
         | impact and saying the brand/category is being retired.
        
           | tobr wrote:
           | And the weird thing is when you try to say something without
           | saying it, it makes it look like _you're_ ashamed of it.
           | There's nothing here to be ashamed of, so why not just say it
           | clearly and succinctly?
        
       | Ninjinka wrote:
       | When I was a kid, I was looking to buy my first gaming device. I
       | was debating between getting a Nintendo DS and the 4th gen iPod,
       | ultimately deciding on the iPod. This ended up being a great
       | choice as I was able to get more games than I would have been
       | able to on the DS and it opened up a world of being able to text
       | my friends (primarily through Words with Friends at the time).
       | 
       | It's a shame it's being discontinued, it was the perfect first
       | device for children.
        
         | kin wrote:
         | As someone who used both devices for gaming, I would say that
         | while the iPod may have had quantity, the DS without a doubt
         | had the quality of games. Amazing library.
        
       | asciimov wrote:
       | That's a damned shame, the iPod Touch was a great way to give
       | kids a "phone" without giving them a real phone.
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | I wonder if they'll launch something new to fill the gap, or if
         | that gap is just too small for them to decide it's worth
         | pursuing.
         | 
         | Or maybe they see that as belonging to the iPad mini's purpose.
        
           | coastflow wrote:
           | The iPad mini might be Apple's response to mostly fill the
           | gap. The device can run phone apps without having the
           | features of calling/texting.
           | 
           | The tablet also has more educational value as it supports
           | handwriting and drawing, though it comes at the cost of not
           | being pocket-size (adding inconvenience for users who just
           | want to listen to music).
        
             | skinnymuch wrote:
             | The iPad mini costs more than an iPhone SE. it's not that
             | small either so if it isn't going to be in your pocket, an
             | iPad is over $100 cheaper.
             | 
             | I think the iPad Mini makes sense as a product line in
             | general. Which is being a smaller screen (and thus cheaper)
             | iPad Air. It does work as an option, but so do iPads.
        
             | wlesieutre wrote:
             | The regular "iPad" is more similar. Low priced model that
             | lags behind the design and power of the flagship models.
             | Starts at $329 vs $500 if you don't mind the big bezels,
             | lightning port, and A13 processor with 3GB RAM.
             | 
             | Mini has the small bezels, USB-C port, supports the
             | magnetically charged stylus, and has an A15 with 4 GB RAM,
             | so it's priced more in line with the iPad Air even though
             | it's the small one.
             | 
             | I used to have an iPad Mini, I think 3? Whichever model was
             | before it got Touch ID. Back then it was a smaller and
             | cheaper version of the normal iPad, more recently it's
             | moved to the middle of the line (but below the "Pro"
             | versions).
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | I just realized the iPad mini I still use doesn't have
               | Touch ID. I have an iPad mini 3. It's slow on the last OS
               | it can be on, iOS 12. I use it because a jailbreak tweak
               | that can last.fm scrobble (tracks listening/viewing
               | history) works on older devices like that one.
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | Just went and checked, the Mini 2 didn't have Touch ID,
               | the 3 added it but changed pretty much nothing else.
               | 
               | I think what I had was a 2 purchased after the 3 came
               | out, someplace was clearing them out for around $150 off
               | even though it was practically the same device except it
               | took half a second longer to unlock. Pretty good deal,
               | eventually got demoted to kitchen recipe screen.
        
         | foogazi wrote:
         | What about an iPhone without a sim card ? camera will be way
         | better anyway
        
           | izzydata wrote:
           | That seems far more expensive than an iPod.
        
             | skinnymuch wrote:
             | iPhone SE 2nd generation (from early 2020) will be pretty
             | cheap nowadays with the 3rd gen out. Probably still a bit
             | pricier than an iPod Touch, but Apple went long periods of
             | time without updating the Touch. While not reducing the
             | price.
             | 
             | Though it won't be possible to get new iPhone SE 2nd gen
             | for long. At that point, a refurbished or used 11 or XR or
             | SE 2nd gen will not be too much. The latter two should be
             | cheaper than a new iPod Touch.
        
             | mrpippy wrote:
             | An older (or new with discounts) iPhone SE isn't much more
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | These days parents hand down their phone to their kids so
             | its basically free from that perspective. The height of the
             | iPod Touch was the time when parents were only just getting
             | their first smartphone.
        
         | windowsrookie wrote:
         | It's essentially an iPhone 7 without a SIM. Just buy one of
         | those. I'm assuming it would cost less than a new iPod touch
         | and it prevents old iPhones from becoming e-waste.
        
           | kgwxd wrote:
           | On an iPod FaceTime and iMessage work as expected over Wifi.
           | Last time I tried to use an iPhone without a sim card they
           | didn't work. Is that still the case? If so, is it a technical
           | limitation or an intentional one?
        
             | nytesky wrote:
             | Yeah I posted about it above and people said it works fine.
             | I wonder if it depends on who you original carrier was or
             | something? I'm going to try again!
        
           | chemmail wrote:
           | You will need to go down to iPhone 6S to get the headphone
           | jack.
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | You could just stick the adapter on the end of their
             | headphones cable and it effectively works the same.
        
           | kingcharles wrote:
           | Someone gave me an iPhone 7 the other day. It's a great
           | phone. It runs the latest iOS too, so you're supported for a
           | good while.
           | 
           | Some apps are a little cramped on what is now considered a
           | small screen though (e.g. TikTok UI takes up most of the
           | screen).
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | It's very much not an iPhone 7 without a SIM.
           | 
           | Chiefly, it weighs 88g vs the 138g for the iPhone - a
           | considerable difference for a child.
        
             | windowsrookie wrote:
             | I'm sorry but I disagree. I carried around a game boy
             | pocket, with several game cartridges just fine as a kid. I
             | see kids taking Nintendo switches and an iPad everywhere
             | with them today.
        
           | simlevesque wrote:
           | > It's essentially an iPhone 7 without a SIM. Just buy one of
           | those.
           | 
           | You literally can't "just buy one" that's new to give to a
           | kid.
        
             | spicybright wrote:
             | Why be pedantic, the point GP is making is obvious.
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | It's not even pedantic. The next line says "new iPods"
               | are pricier than iPhone 7s. So they meant non new iPhone
               | 7s. Followed by e-waste which wouldn't be about a new
               | device
        
             | skinnymuch wrote:
             | The person knows that. If you read on. That's why they say
             | it's probably cheaper than a new iPod. By saying "new" for
             | iPod, it's a distinction versus iPhone 7s. Then they bring
             | up e-waste which is about used devices being re-used. Not
             | using a new device.
        
           | Someone1234 wrote:
           | Major problem with that: Phones without SIMs can still make
           | emergency calls (911, etc).
           | 
           | I got one for my kid as a camera. Why? Because it costs as
           | much as many kids cameras, while they're absolute trash, and
           | the camera module/software in the iPod takes really high
           | quality photos that are easy to export or manipulate.
           | 
           | Old iPhones are inexpensive, but you cannot disable emergency
           | calling for a good reason, but that good reason still doesn't
           | make you want to hand one to a 7-year-old as a glorified
           | camera.
        
             | tempestn wrote:
             | Is the concern that they will accidentally dial 911, or
             | intentionally? I have a 7 year old and can't really imagine
             | either happening.
        
               | Someone1234 wrote:
               | Both. Just a whole scope of problem that can be
               | eliminated by not getting a device with a cellular modem.
               | Plus a lot of iOS devices have strange interactions with
               | iPhones without phone numbers (imessage and signal for
               | two specific examples).
        
               | procombo wrote:
               | This is the worst thing about Signal, IMO. I want to use
               | old phones as backup communication devices (wifi) but
               | can't natively use the software that way.
        
           | nytesky wrote:
           | We have a bunch of old iPhones for kids, but we can't setup
           | iMessage on those phones without an active phone number. We
           | can setup iMessage (email based) on iPad and iPod Touches, so
           | this is frustrating. I want my kids to not be full on
           | cellular internet, but I like that they can message
           | relatively safely friends and family with iMessage.
        
             | lkxijlewlf wrote:
             | I thought you could set iMessage up to use an email
             | address. I did that before but it's been a while.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | You do not need a phone number for iMessage. You can make
               | an apple account with an email address, and use the email
               | address as your Apple ID.
        
             | mstolpm wrote:
             | I'm using an old iPhone without a SIM card as a spare
             | device and iMessage works on it WIFI-only. But I have to
             | admit that initial setup of the Apple ID wasn't done on
             | this phone. Perhaps you could setup your kids Apple IDs on
             | another device and then use them on the old phones with
             | iMessage as well?
        
             | refracture wrote:
             | You're missing something; I have a first gen SE that's got
             | no SIM and it has email based iMessage setup and working.
             | It's for my son to FaceTime with family.
        
             | FactolSarin wrote:
             | We use a cell service called Tello for my kids phones. For
             | $5/mo you can get a plan with 100 minutes of voice calls,
             | sms, and no data whatsoever. It's perfect for my kids,
             | since I don't really want them to have mobile data anyway
        
               | rsync wrote:
               | Thank you!
               | 
               | I have been looking for a cheaper, no-data SIM card to
               | use with 2FA Mules - this is very helpful.
        
             | skinnymuch wrote:
             | I don't believe this is true or something let's me not need
             | any [working] sim in my phones. I can log into an iCloud
             | account and FT, iMessage accounts on non sim working phones
             | too.
        
             | piperswe wrote:
             | Strange, I have iMessage set up on an old iPhone XS with no
             | SIM and no phone number tied to the Apple ID
        
         | clairity wrote:
         | from apple's vantage point, the watch (with airpods) is meant
         | to fill this niche (more lucratively for them). apple even went
         | against its own one-user-one-device edict to allow one iphone
         | to control multiple watches to support this positioning.
         | 
         | edit: i should add that this is also one of the reasons apple
         | has the "voice only" music subscription.
        
           | belazeebub wrote:
           | The watch most definitely does not fill this niche as most
           | parents bought the iPod touch partly (mostly?) for its gaming
           | abilities.
        
         | daptaq wrote:
         | Why would you even what that? I get the opposite (phone without
         | internet), but this has all the downsides for the development
         | of a child without the advantage of a child being able to
         | contact their parents or vice versa?
        
           | francisofascii wrote:
           | > Why would you even what that
           | 
           | Cost. $199, new.
        
             | daptaq wrote:
             | You can get a new Nokia dumbphone for 60 euros: https://www
             | .nokia.com/phones/de_de/nokia-6310?sku=16POSE01A0.... Up
             | until recently there were even models that only cost 20.
        
               | windowsrookie wrote:
               | You can't get a cheap dumb phone in the United States.
               | Carriers here will not activate a device unless it has
               | 4G.
        
           | protomyth wrote:
           | The iPod touch cannot call 911. The iPod touch doesn't
           | require me to have a phone contract. Not every kid needs a
           | phone, but having an iPod touch keeps the kid from getting
           | bullied by the "Blue Message" crowd.
        
             | cactus2093 wrote:
             | You're saying the most important considerations for a kid
             | are 1. preventing prank 911 calls and 2. teaching them not
             | to be anti-android snobs?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | protomyth wrote:
               | Accidental[1] or pranks by others mostly. Welcome to the
               | wonderful world of elementary school.
               | 
               | 1) although having had to make a 911 from Car Play, I
               | wouldn't worry about accidents, but it was concerning how
               | long it took to make the damn call.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | iPhones do not require a phone contract either.
             | 
             | iPod touches also sent iMessages, since all you need is an
             | Apple ID.
             | 
             | https://support.apple.com/guide/ipod-touch/set-up-
             | messages-i...
        
               | protomyth wrote:
               | _iPod touches also sent iMessages, since all you need is
               | an Apple ID._
               | 
               | That's why I said _" having an iPod touch keeps the kid
               | from getting bullied by the "Blue Message" crowd"_ - It
               | was the device you could buy a kid and not worry about
               | the green messages.
               | 
               | iPhones without phone contracts can still call 911.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Sorry, I read that incorrectly.
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | If jailbreaking will continue working on iOS 15, then
               | people can do that and nuke the phone app from iPhones to
               | prevent the 911 issue.
        
       | DerekBickerton wrote:
       | Damn I love these devices. For me they were a sort of _very_ mini
       | iPad in an iPhone form factor and I loved how they didn 't have a
       | baseband processor. Always laughed when trying to download
       | Whatsapp onto them and got an 'Incompatible' message in the app
       | store.
       | 
       | Apple never released new versions frequently though, meaning
       | certain apps became incompatible over time, since iPods couldn't
       | be updated to the latest iOS. My fifth gen device was stuck on
       | iOS 9 for a number of years now and it basically became unusable
       | (and very insecure since apps couldn't be updated along with the
       | OS).
       | 
       | I will be snapping up as many devices as I can from AliExpress &
       | eBay though. Still worth having a few to toy around & tinker
       | with.
        
       | mdoms wrote:
       | Ipod was dead to me when they killed the Shuffle, the only Apple
       | product I genuinely liked.
        
       | DerekBickerton wrote:
       | Damn I love these devices. For me they were a sort of _very_ mini
       | iPad in an iPhone form factor and I loved how they didn 't have a
       | baseband processor. Always laughed when trying to download
       | Whatsapp onto them and got an 'Incompatible' message in the app
       | store.
       | 
       | Apple never released new versions frequently though, meaning
       | certain apps became incompatible over time, since iPods couldn't
       | be updated to the latest iOS. My fifth gen device was stuck on
       | iOS 9 for a number of years now and it basically became unusable
       | (and very insecure since apps couldn't be updated along with the
       | OS).
       | 
       | I will be snapping up as many devices as I can from AliExpress &
       | eBay though. Still worth having a few to toy around & tinker
       | with.
        
       | compiler-guy wrote:
       | "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."
       | 
       | Twenty years is a long time.
        
         | Nition wrote:
         | I noticed that the NOMAD lives on in Apple having to be extra
         | specific in today's announcement:
         | 
         | > The original iPod, introduced on October 23, 2001, was the
         | first MP3 player to pack a mind-blowing 1,000 songs and a
         | 10-hour battery into a stunning 6.5-ounce package.
         | 
         | The NOMAD had more storage than the first iPod (6GB vs. 5GB),
         | but weighed 14oz and had a four hour battery life.[0]
         | 
         | [0] https://archive.org/details/manualzilla-
         | id-7341241/page/37/m...
        
         | kilbuz wrote:
         | haha, classic.
        
       | nileshtrivedi wrote:
       | Since smartphoners have taken over, we are seeing most businesses
       | insisting on users' owning and sharing their phone numbers. WiFi-
       | only devices like iPod Touch could have played an important role
       | in resisting this trend - especially with kids. Too bad there
       | never were any popular WiFi-only models in the Android world.
        
         | Headwig wrote:
         | There is the WiFi-Only Ipads,so not all hope is lost! This had
         | led to the new "Ipad Kid" trend though which is loathsome at
         | best.
        
         | cheschire wrote:
         | Just don't put a sim card in it?
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | I think apps that could run on an ipod within its
           | restrictions, might require that kind of stuff
        
       | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
       | So I just spat Apple in the eye and bought an old iPod classic
       | with iFlash + 1TB SSD retrofitted in it (I do have another one,
       | but I have no sufficient opening-fu to pry it open without
       | damaging).
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | If you wanted to really spit in Apple's eye, you'd buy a Zune.
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-10 23:00 UTC)