[HN Gopher] Red Hat in-vehicle operating system in modern and fu...
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       Red Hat in-vehicle operating system in modern and future vehicles
        
       Author : ohjeez
       Score  : 52 points
       Date   : 2022-05-10 20:55 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.redhat.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.redhat.com)
        
       | DoctorOW wrote:
       | I feel like if there was a press release about IBM repackaging
       | Linux to sell to manufacturers, the post here would have no
       | positive response, maybe no negative response either. I feel like
       | either apathy or cynicism. This is probably part of the value of
       | the Red Hat purchase.
        
       | ra7 wrote:
       | Is this an alternative to Android Automotive [1]?
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://source.android.com/devices/automotive/start/what_aut...
        
         | thebeardisred wrote:
         | No, this is related to IEEE/ASME functional safety.
        
       | kornhole wrote:
       | This seems to be in an exploratory phase with many questions
       | still on how to implement. I do see this as positive in general
       | that big car makers such as GM are recognizing the benefits and
       | willing to partner with IBM on building open source solutions.
       | 
       | I recently evaluated several cars for purchase and had real
       | difficulty with all of them because of the mysterious proprietary
       | operating systems that I know are collecting data and sending to
       | somewhere. Cars have become Iphones on wheels which sounds great
       | to some people, but not to me. I ultimately decided not to
       | purchase a new car and stick with an older more analogue one
       | until an open source modern car would be available. I might be
       | waiting a while, but I don't think I am alone in this
       | predicament.
        
         | georgia_peach wrote:
         | Looking at android, the open source data-probe is every bit as
         | effective as the closed-source one. The idea of controlling
         | heavy machinery with red hat seems nearly as inadvisable as
         | controlling it with windows.
         | 
         | --
         | 
         | " _Computers can do better than ever what needn 't be done at
         | all. Making sense is still a human monopoly._"
         | 
         | - Marshall McLuhan
        
       | brian_herman wrote:
       | nice this sounds great!
        
       | RealityVoid wrote:
       | This seems to target the "bigger" cpu's in a car, but there are
       | tens of ECU's that are far smaller and that I think could benefit
       | from a better platform. A much better one than AUTOSAR, which is
       | a nightmare to work with. I swear I don't know what automakers
       | are thinking with pushing AUTOSAR.
        
         | wyldfire wrote:
         | Maybe zephyr [1] is a good option for those ECUs? or hubris
         | [2]?
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://docs.zephyrproject.org/latest/introduction/index.htm...
         | 
         | [2] https://github.com/oxidecomputer/hubris
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | > Automakers are moving toward providing more personalized and
       | intuitive driving experiences while becoming more embedded within
       | a driver's personal ecosystem. Doing so creates opportunities for
       | additional revenue streams and improved customer loyalty. The Red
       | Hat In-Vehicle Operating System provides automakers with a
       | common, updatable platform that enables automakers to better meet
       | customer expectations via frequent and seamless feature upgrades
       | and deployment of new applications and services.
       | 
       | Honestly, this sounds horrible. This is PR speak for "Red Hat In-
       | Vehicle Operating System will make it easier to serve ads and
       | collect user data that can be sold."
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | Would is also make it easier to swap parts like sensors?
         | Imagine upgrading your lidar, radar, or computer yourself.
        
         | RealityVoid wrote:
         | How much can this damn' data be worth in order to risk the
         | loyalty of people paying tens of thousands of dollars on your
         | product? I assume the _actual_ profit they are making are in
         | "addons" and extras that can be unlocked remotely.
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | Because there is no loyalty risk. They are betting on a
           | favorable regulatory environment and apathetic consumers for
           | the next several years.
        
         | version_five wrote:
         | Yeah I understand why they market it that way to automakers,
         | but I wish there was a push to show what it could do for the
         | consumer and create demand. I would love to have an open source
         | OS that I could customize in my car. I understand there is
         | stuff that for regulatory reasons can't change, but all the
         | maps and music and whatnot I'd love control over
        
           | netsharc wrote:
           | Meh, it seems like all infotainment computers get outdated a
           | lot faster than the car, and they don't even have an
           | advantage by being brand new because the manufacturer just
           | slaps on something "the cheapest and slowest computer you can
           | find, and just tolerable enough" to save costs.
           | 
           | The car should just offer HDMI input for the display and
           | speakers, and allow the computer to be upgradable. Even the
           | display should be a module (say someone wants to upgrade to
           | 4K OLED...), which makes me think the DIN got it right:
           | https://www.bestcaraudio.com/what-is-a-double-din-car-radio/
        
             | version_five wrote:
             | Yeah my first choice would be a car that doesn't have a
             | display or lets me project what's on my phone's screen. But
             | if manufacturers insist on some OS with a screen as an
             | output device, and they do, having an open one would at
             | least have the potential to stimulate innovation in
             | available software. As it is, everything I've seem is just
             | an afterthought or lazy attempt at a revenue stream. And it
             | will stay that way as long as manufacturers can lock in car
             | buyers to a proprietary closed system
        
             | StillBored wrote:
             | I think there was a small window around 2010 where people
             | actually used the onboard maps/GPS/etc. But every single
             | person I know with a fancy new car + nav system/etc just
             | uses their phone tethered over bluetooth.
             | 
             | So, none of that matters, in the end. All you need is a
             | volume control, a push to talk to siri/etc button on your
             | steering wheel and a decently placed audio pickup.
             | 
             | Then the upgrade happens every couple years with a new
             | phone.
        
       | StillBored wrote:
       | Ok, color me confused, but what does this actually mean? It
       | mentions fedora IoT, via the centos link, which is AFAIK just
       | another Linux distribution (something like coreos, but not
       | coreos?). Where does that fit in a car? Is linux real-time
       | enough, for any of the actual control plane/etc? Is it
       | certifiable? Which leaves what, the entertainment system? What
       | does this provide that a android fork doesn't, longer support
       | lifetimes? It can't actually be Linux can it? I mean RHEL is
       | considered an ancient distro and it only does ~10 years. 10 years
       | old is basically brand new in some car circles, where people are
       | regularly driving 20-30 year old cars. The Linux of 2042 will
       | likely be as unrecognizable as the Linux of 1999 is today, so
       | this has to be something else right? I guess there is a midplane
       | for non driving, non entertainment? AKA the electric windows,
       | door locks, etc? Does that need a full blown heavyweight OS?
       | 
       | Confused...
        
         | RealityVoid wrote:
         | Besides the dashboard and the infotainment, more recent ADAS
         | units usually have some sort of POSIX on them. But, yes, most
         | of the systems are RTOS'es.
        
         | soperj wrote:
         | You mention an android fork and complain that RHEL is only
         | supported for 10 years. How long is that fork supported for?
         | 
         | Confused...
        
           | StillBored wrote:
           | If it's an android fork with a 20 year lifetime, then I
           | understand what it is.
           | 
           | Is it?
           | 
           | edit: I guess another way to put this is, looking at car's I
           | wouldn't expect it to be linux. Maybe something entirely new,
           | designed for real time, safety, and long term support. Maybe
           | with an android style layer bolted on somewhere for the
           | infotainment systems. Being redhat, open source of course.
           | 
           | So, we can expect a Fuchsia like code drop at some point? Why
           | not just say that and post it?
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-10 23:00 UTC)