[HN Gopher] Using a "proper" camera as a webcam ___________________________________________________________________ Using a "proper" camera as a webcam Author : ltratt Score : 364 points Date : 2022-05-17 15:06 UTC (7 hours ago) (HTM) web link (tratt.net) (TXT) w3m dump (tratt.net) | humanwhosits wrote: | I've been using the 'thecentercam' the last few days, and I get | good comments on the "eye contact" that I now have with people | [deleted] | max599 wrote: | A compromise for when you want a high quality webcam without | spending money or dealing with the downsides of using an "real" | camera is to use your phone. A 3 year old iphone/samsung will | have a built in camera that is better than any webcam you could | find under 150$. When you are pairing it with a PC, you can use | the back camera instead of the front facing one. | | They either work through OBS or a dedicated app that you have to | start on your pc. I paid for an app (droidcam, 15$ for the | "premium" HD version and free for SD+watermark irrc) because I | was in a hurry but I know there are good free alternative if you | have some time to spend trying them. | Melatonic wrote: | I bought a Panasonic Lumix S5 (amazing camera btw - the whole | full frame lumix collection blows away everything else I have | used and I came from a Sony A7iii) and there is a beta software | from panasonic that installs drivers to make it act as a webcam. | Actually works quite well and smoothly (it just recognizes like | any other webcam - no software to tweak). Unfortunately it is | only limited to 720P while the camera can shoot 6K raw video (SSD | external required of course) but it works well for Zoom and | whatnot. | 867-5309 wrote: | I picked up a new C920 a few years ago on a PS30 deal (I think | they go for around PS50 now) and it is by far the best USB webcam | for quality at this price point | | I'm am at a loss as to why this guy is comparing said camera to | cameras in the region of PS600-1300. if they could produce 20x | the quality, then it might be a wothwhile comparison, but they | evidently cannot | | the C920 has inbuilt hardware h264 encoding (for PS30!) which the | majority of video streaming and conference platforms will thank | you for, freeing up your processor to focus on network quality - | which is _far_ more important than choice of camera | | the C920 also outputs its nicely pre-encoded stream at 1920p, so | I'm not sure why this guy is testing at 720p. perhaps he doesn't | realise this and is why he is surprised by the wider angle. | perhaps his PS600-1300 "proper" camera or HDMI-to-USB only | outputs at 720p. who knows. maybe if he'd have spent less time | faffing around with desmurfification and Moire he'd have noticed | this in the settings | | I was expecting an article comparing the C920 to an affordable | proper camera with some ffmpeg wizardry, but all I got was a | wishy-washy amateur photographer with a stable internet | connection and lots of money to burn | jamescun wrote: | +1 for the C920. | | Got lucky and got one before the prices of webcams went crazy | due to pandemic demand. Think they are back to around ~PS60 | now. | | It just works. Plugged it in, picked up within macOS without a | problem, immediately usable in Google Meet. Picture is fine, | audio is fine. No complaints. | jrodthree24 wrote: | Are you actually using the webcam microphone? And does it | normally work well for you? | jamescun wrote: | Yes, works fine. I'm not sure what it's optimal audio | pickup area is, but perched atop my screen ~50cm away from | my mouth, I have no issues. | renewiltord wrote: | Does anyone have a comprehensive guide for Canon DSLRs on MacOS | on M1? The Canon drivers to use as a webcam are nightmarish and | my friends had a hell of a time trying to get it to work. | ldayley wrote: | I've solved most compatibility problems with several camera | brands (and their drivers) by simply using a hardware HDMI->USB | video capture/processing card or stick. Then I can mount it as | a generic video device and not install drivers at all, allowing | me to switch cameras out at will. | renewiltord wrote: | Ah ha, thank you. Which device are you currently using? | ldayley wrote: | Currently using an Atomos Connect since theyre compact and | not expensive. Good luck! | jannyfer wrote: | FYI, online reviews say the Atomos Connect is just a | repackaged version of the same generic HDMI-to-USB | converters with the ms2109 chip that sell for $10-20 on | Amazon (like the one linked in the original article). | ldayley wrote: | The recently viral "USB hubs drove me crazy" post forced | me to realize that all commodity outboard consumer | hardware are probably identically sourced boards/chips, | with western branding responsible for the markup-- but | this one survived where a previous cheaper one failed, | YMMV. | renewiltord wrote: | Thank you! | kmike84 wrote: | As I understand, the drivers (webcam utility? not sure) are | built for x86. For some reason they don't work in apps which | are built for M1, so the camera only works if an app which | needs a video is running in emulation mode. | | So, if you want to use Canon DSLR on M1 in a web browser (e.g. | google meet), get a browser built for x86. | | I'm using Chromium, it can be downloaded for x86. The issue is | that Chromium doesn't have screen share feature. So, for screen | share, I'm using Chrome, and joining the call for the second | time, in "companion mode". That's 2 separate browsers to | participate in a call. Maybe there is a way to get Chrome or | Firefox for x86, but I was a bit too lazy when setting it up :) | renewiltord wrote: | Haha thank you! That's certainly an interesting approach. | protomyth wrote: | We used an ATEM mini from Blackmagic Design with a couple of | cameras with HDMI out. The mini acts like a USB web cam when you | hook it to the computer. | hahamrfunnyguy wrote: | I've done some live streams using OBS, a DSLR and a capture card. | Definitely not something I'd want to do for every online meeting. | When I need a camera, I use a Logitec C920 webcam. Not as good as | a DSLR or mirrorless camera, but it's sufficient and works. | lkxijlewlf wrote: | I don't understand what's wrong with the Logitech C920's output | there. He has plenty of light, so it's a decent image. He talks | about video calls and not video production (YouTube, etc...). How | great do the video calls need to be? | | And I get it, to each their own, but it just seems overly | complicated. | | I think as long as you have good lighting, something like the | c920 is good. I have a Razer Kiyo Pro and it's good too. My | biggest issue is lighting. I have blackout curtains to keep heat | out so my office is dark. I need more front lighting. Even an | expensive set up like the article wouldn't help much. | Geonode wrote: | My C920 will suddenly drop focus and constantly tries to | compensate lighting. And I cannot get it to stop. I'm | definitely in the market for the right clean HDMI camera. | lkxijlewlf wrote: | Sounds like a defective camera. | favorited wrote: | I've had to talk myself out of pulling the trigger on this | several times. It's such an obvious level-up compared to how | horrible most webcams are - but I just don't _need_ it, and I 'm | unlikely to use the camera for anything else. | | I did spring for a nice software-controlled key light[0], and it | makes a huge difference. It basically compensates for the fact | that my home-office location has the worst lighting conditions, | with a bright window directly behind me and another to one side. | | [0]https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Key-Light-Air-app- | adjustable/d... | jcelerier wrote: | I use an X-T4 that way, exposed to V4L2 like this it works well | (but with a ridiculous 1024x768 resolution which is apparently | the best one can get out of its USB...): | gphoto2 --stdout --capture-movie | ffmpeg -i - -vcodec rawvideo | -pix_fmt yuv420p -threads 0 -f v4l2 /dev/video1 | | At some point I should buy a proper capture card for it... but | for meetings it's already day&night vs laptop webcam | flipflipper wrote: | Another reason to not use a DSLR is that many (all?) have | timeouts (<30min) in their video mode due to some import tax | reason, even when hooked up to a computer. Atleast this is what I | found when I tried a canon DSLR with canons webcam software. | Manuel_D wrote: | This changed in 2019 IIRC. The EU changed its regulation and | the 30 minute record limit no longer applies. Furthermore, it | was always possible to install custom firmware on many cameras | that bypassed this limit. Record limits due to temperature and | overheating, though, is a different story. | xdennis wrote: | > have timeouts (<30min) in their video mode due to some import | tax reason | | People are often misinformed about EU laws, but on the other | hand the EU has no shortage of ridiculous laws that give fodder | to the euroskeptics. | | In this case, it DOES look like the 30 minute limit is the EU's | fault[1]. Thankfully it ended in 2019. | | [1]: https://www.fujirumors.com/yes-eu-import-duty-reason- | fujifil... | adoxyz wrote: | That's only if you actually hit the record button and are | actively recording to the memory card, but if you're using the | DSLR as a passthrough, it works all day. I have done it w/ my | Sony a6500 and it works really well. | ericd wrote: | I think Sonys tend to be recommended as working well as | webcams, partly for this reason, not all do. | crtasm wrote: | I've read some cameras still have a timeout when not | recording, e.g note on Canon EOS 6D here: | https://www.elgato.com/en/cam-link/camera-check | michaelt wrote: | Can you run autofocus continuously when you're not actively | recording? | ericd wrote: | The Sony a series can, no idea about others. | ldayley wrote: | Sony cameras work (as mentioned below) but nearly every | mirrorless or dslr I've used does this by default or can be | set up to by switching to continuous AF modes. This is best | done while connected to a power source, as the motors drain | battery faster. | kmike84 wrote: | Is it such a big issue? My Canon DSLR turns off every 30min, | but that's only for a couple of seconds, it then turns back on. | On a positive side, it's now easy to notice when 30min or 1hr | meeting is running over, it's a nice reminder :) | adhoc_slime wrote: | Extra note here, I've been running my olympus em5 mk-2 with the | drivers Olympus released to run it as a web camera and its been | working just fine, out of the box. I got an extra dummy battery | to power it (cannot be powered though usb) so I have no worries | of it dying during a long meeting. | | in a remote office world, I'm glad my team leaves their cameras | on and I view it as a form of professionalism to present myself | as best I can, and if that's not following a dress code and | keeping trim in an office, its giving good video quality in | online meetings. | jeffbee wrote: | I'm also using an E m5 mk2 on macos, with the battery holder | grip and 25mm lens. I'm happy with the image but the software | is pretty bad, isn't it? There's a substantial lag between the | audio and video which is disconcerting to the viewer. And the | video stream doesn't reliably start. I usually have to flip the | video off and on a few dozen times in the Zoom app before it | begins working. | | Aside from that the cost of the Very Special USB Cable is a | real insult. | adhoc_slime wrote: | I haven't had the same experience at all, perhaps its because | I'm on windows? I also don't use my camera as my audio | source. I use my laptop microphone for now, with plans to get | an external microphone. I just use the usb cable that came | with the camera, I never had to purchase it separately. | | The battery I use is one that uses the shell of a matching | battery but provides a wired 8V DC through a usb SMPS, 20$ | from aliexpress and I never have to worry about it. | jeffbee wrote: | I'm using the microphone on the mac ... the audio is ahead | of the video. I don't think the OM-D Webcam software | supports audio at all. | at_compile_time wrote: | >Mirrorless cameras are smaller and lighter and have almost | entirely replaced DSLRs. | | I haven't paid attention to cameras in a while. Did I miss this | happening? | Kerrick wrote: | Yes. Sony became as big of a player as Canon and Nikon because | of it. Canon launched a new lens mount (RF) and announced they | will stop producing EF lenses and flagship DSLRs. Nikon | launched a new lens mount (Z). | spoonjim wrote: | The problem with all "proper" cameras is that they have multiple | frames of latency and latency is by far the most important thing | in a call. Has anyone found a "proper" camera pipeline as low | latency as a webcam? | kmike84 wrote: | Hm, I haven't noticed any increased latency when using a DSLR | as a webcam. | klodolph wrote: | For video, I think this is a waste of time and money. Audio is a | different story. | | The quality of your audio has an impact both on the | intelligibility of what you're saying and on listener's | subconscious evaluations of you. Audio software and hardware is | also cheaper and much, much easier to deal with than video--I've | had no problems with essentially the same setup across Mac, | Linux, and Windows. | | The cost of entry is somewhere around $50-$100 for USB | microphones, although if you're willing to spend closer to $250, | you can get a decent USB audio interface ($120) + standard (XLR) | microphone ($100) + XLR cable ($10) + stand or boom arm ($20). | | I've been in countless online meetings where I'm barely able to | hear one or two of the participants. | | Every time I've evaluated a better video setup, it's been clear | that there are a bunch of things you want to get right in order | to have a smooth & reliable experience. You want a camera with | clean HDMI output, a capture card, and make sure that your camera | can be run continuously for as long as the meetings will last-- | don't forget back-to-back meetings. If you might be in meetings | for three hours in a row every once in a while, do you need a | camera that can be run for three hours continuously? Most | "proper" cameras just can't do that. If you dig into the specs, | some of them will list the maximum amount of time that they'll | run before shutting off. Twitch streamers and people who run | YouTube channels have done the research and will tell you which | cameras are suitable for this kind of work, but at that point, | you're often spending like $700 or more just so people can see a | clearer picture. I would love it if I could just use my DSLR, | which is a very nice prosumer DSLR with some nice lenses, but | it's just not designed for streaming video. I would have to buy | something new. | | High-quality audio for $50-$100 is a much, much better deal. | aphit wrote: | I would love to upgrade my audio game but don't know where to | start. Any similar guides like the OP but for audio? | klodolph wrote: | There are a ton of guides online, especially since the | pandemic started. Getting a USB microphone is so easy and | cheap that you probably don't need a guide for it. The guides | that I've seen for USB mics are generally focused on the | features that streamers need, which are somewhat unique (they | want to capture desktop audio at the same time). | | If you are going for the prosumer option, I recommend | Scarlett Solo + Shure SM58 + XLR cable + mic stand. This may | be a bit overkill for meetings, but it's a good starting | point if you want to record music, stream, record a podcast, | etc. | tomatocracy wrote: | A lot of cameras will list maximum time before shutting off as | 29 minutes, 59 seconds. This isn't neccessarily because of | overheating issues but (I think) to avoid falling on the wrong | side of some tax/duty differences between camcorders and stills | cameras. | | As an example, on my home setup I use a Canon R5 for video | calls (way overpowered for this task but I have it for stills | photography). This lists maximum recording time as 29:59. | However it doesn't limit the amount of time it can be switched | on and outputting via HDMI and I've used it for calls of 3+ | hours without any issue (with an AC battery adapter). | unicornporn wrote: | > A lot of cameras will list maximum time before shutting off | as 29 minutes, 59 seconds. This isn't neccessarily because of | overheating issues but (I think) to avoid falling on the | wrong side of some tax/duty differences between camcorders | and stills cameras. | | That's for recording to memory card, not for the HDMI feed. | outworlder wrote: | > The cost of entry is somewhere around $50-$100 for USB | microphones, although if you're willing to spend closer to | $250, you can get a decent USB audio interface ($120) + | standard (XLR) microphone ($100) + XLR cable ($10) + stand or | boom arm ($20). | | Is a XLR microphone worth the cost increase - for meetings, not | streaming(or youtube creation)? | klodolph wrote: | > Is a XLR microphone worth the cost increase - for meetings, | not streaming(or youtube creation)? | | I'm not sure how to quantify it, and I've not used USB | microphones. By the time USB microphones appeared on the | market, I already had microphones and there was no reason to | downgrade. | | My point of reference is the Shure SM57 / SM58 (which are | very similar). The SM57/SM58 is dirt cheap at $100, extremely | reliable, and has a very good sound to it. The "sound" of the | microphone is largely created by the construction of the | capsule and the construction of the microphone body. When you | listen to a recording, you're hearing not only the sound, but | also the resonances of the microphone capsule and body. My | experience is that as you explore cheaper options below $100, | you see microphones with much cheaper construction and | noticeable resonance problems. I am _extremely_ skeptical of | USB microphones that are radically cheaper--up to 80% less | expensive--than the most basic, inexpensive USB interface + | microphone combo I could come up with. | | For this reason, when I give advice to people who want to | make music using a microphone, I recommend that they start | with the $250 (total budget) USB interface and SM57/SM57. If | $250 is out of their budget, then they should just save up | until they can afford it. | | So I will tell you that I am not happy with the quality of | microphones in general under $100, or the quality of | condenser microphones under $200-$300. I'll also tell you | that the main thing I've been using Zoom for in the past | couple years has been remote vocal lessons, so my needs are | different from yours. | | I would also caution you that there is an enormous amount of | misinformation and bad advice about microphones online. | People forget about acoustic treatment (super important), | recommend that someone starting out get the SM7b (awful | choice for first microphone), or tell you that condenser | microphones are more sensitive to background noise and poorly | treated rooms (just plain false--this one makes no sense at | all). | | So is it worth it? Don't know--how much money can you play | around with, and how much do you care about audio quality? | outworlder wrote: | Thanks for the great response. | | I care enough to want to upgrade my work-issued Plantronics | headset. Not enough to spend $500 doing so. $250? Possibly | since it's a one-time investment, as long as there's a | significant upgrade that can still be perceived in low | bandwidth online meetings. | | One thing I would like to avoid is the 'youtuber' setup. | Ideally I'd like the microphone to be able to pick up my | voice without it itself being in the camera view. | klodolph wrote: | Fair. I'd prefer to call it the "Johnny Carson" setup, | though! | | Microphone placement is a massive subject by itself. The | basic idea is that you make the signal loud by moving the | microphone reasonably close to your voice and point it at | your mouth, and simultaneously, the part that people | forget, you put the microphone far away from noise | sources and pointing away from them. This second part is | what built-in laptop microphones are especially bad at. | (Note that microphones have different pickup patterns, so | pointing "away" from a source means different things to | different mics, and it's irrelevant for omnidirectional | mics.) | | Depending on the camera set up, you can put something | like an SM57 just out of frame and still have it be | fairly close to your mouth, away from noise. A boom arm | or mic stand will help. Setting your mic on the desk can | work but this will pick up vibrations from the desk. | | Other common setups are lavalier microphones, headset | microphones, and shotgun microphones. Fair to assume | you're not using a shotgun microphone. | | Lav mics are simple and unobtrusive. TV hosts use them a | lot. (You can see that late night TV hosts have a lav mic | in addition to the desk mic... 99% of the time, you're | hearing the lav mic, and the desk mic is off.) Headset | mics give you more consistent and clear sound, with more | freedom of movement, which is why singers and presenters | use them a lot. Beware that cheap lav / headset mics will | sound as bad as your laptop microphone, just with less | background noise. You can watch reviews on YouTube for | these kind of mics and decide if you want to try one out. | madduci wrote: | But isn't running a camera as a Webcam actually bad for the | battery, especially if you plan to use that camera also for | trips? | wingmanjd wrote: | I've seen some AC adapters that fit into the battery | compartment to replace the battery. No idea if it's a good idea | or not. | formerly_proven wrote: | That's a standard accessory | scarmig wrote: | You can connect it to a power source that has the form factor | if a battery. | jrockway wrote: | I have a thing that replaces the battery with AC power supply. | While the DSLR is being used as a webcam, it doesn't even | contain a battery. | samatman wrote: | There's no reason it should be, it's unclear to me which | scenario concerns you: | | Mirrorless cameras can be powered by USB, either Micro or C | depending on model. The batteries have a built-in BMS so | leaving the camera plugged in won't harm them. | | Some mirrorless aren't thermally compatible with running full | video on battery for long periods, this is worth researching | before purchase, but for the ones which are it's not going to | damage the battery to run off of it. | | There's no motive to do so with a desktop setup. | aeturnum wrote: | Webcams often simply use cheap, small sensors but I think it's | worth mentioning that these "proper" cameras are also not | designed to do on-demand video well. It turns out that if you | spend $1000 on camera + lens it will look better than your $100 | camera + lens, but that's not because the tool is 'better | designed' for your use. | | On the higher end, cameras make different choices around pixel | quality, heat fluctuations, etc in still and video cameras. I | think the "professionally remote" segment of the market is _super | under developed_ but it 's the perfect bingo of awful startup | challenges: selling specialist (HIGH capital) hardware to end | users with a socially-contextualized value proposition. Good | luck! | | Edit: in case anyone else is confused - it's that you build a | sensor differently to best transmit lower-resolution images for | extended periods of time. | MrStonedOne wrote: | GiorgioG wrote: | I use a Sony A6000 with an Elgato CamLink 4K USB adapter. Works | great in Windows and Pop_OS 22.04. Slack, Discord, etc all work | and I didn't have to fiddle with any configuration since the | CamLink shows up as a generic webcam. | | I set up howdy (facial recognition login) in Pop_OS and was | pleasantly surprised at how relatively simple it was to get | working. | tobyhinloopen wrote: | I'm using a Sony A6300 with 35mm F/1.8 lens and I get a lot of | comments about my "webcam". | | I've put it next to my monitor and put my meeting on the side of | the screen so I look "into" the camera. | TheBozzCL wrote: | During the pandemic, I tried something similar since there was | little point to go out to take photos: | | 1. Sony A7II | | 2. 35mm lens (I tried others and this gives the best results for | 2-3 feet) | | 3. Sony XLR-K2M adapter + Shure condenser microphone (this is | absolutely overkill but I like to record myself playing guitar, | and it beats timing stuff by hand) | | 4. Mini-HDMI cable to Elgato CamLink 4K USB dongle (I tried | others, this one worked the best) | | 5. Two cheap LED photographic lights from Amazon - my workspace | is very badly lit, so these also help me keep things well | illuminated. | | The main downside of using a setup like this is white balancing - | I found the camera was not doing a good job by itself, so I had | to do some trial-and-error. In less controlled environments, like | rooms with lots of windows, this becomes even harder over the | course of the day. | | And yeah, I originally set all this up to stream games. How could | you tell? | tgtweak wrote: | Just a note - I had a Nokia D90 dslr that would overheat if left | in video mode for too long (over 5 minutes). Check for any "max | video recording length" mentions on the camera's spec sheet as a | early sign that this might be the case. | | A "yesteryear" smartphone that is collecting dust is also an | excellent alternative, as they have surprisingly high quality | cameras and lenses (on the rear side, anyway). I use a cracked- | screen-not-worth-repairing Xiaomi Mi Mix 2 (about 5 years old | now) placed in an amazon ring light (that conveniently has a | phone-sized clamp-style mount in the middle). There is an android | app that turns the phone into a network-accessible webcam, and a | windows app to receive it and map it as a system camera input. | | Quality (resolution, field-of-view, focus and light levels even | with very bright background) is miles ahead of my logitech brio | 4k webcam - to the point I resold the brio after only a few days. | I can actually stream in 2160p from the device at a pretty | respectable framerate. | | Probably not on par with a modern DSLR but for something that | most people I think have laying around - highly worth trying | first. | sorenjan wrote: | What's the latency like? | tgtweak wrote: | Less than 100ms which is very acceptable for video | conferencing. Phones also have pretty solid wifi antennas in | them so throughput is great even when wirelessly connected to | the network. | mrdonbrown wrote: | I'm surprised no one has mentioned using a teleprompter yet. You | can pick one up for around $100 and when combined with a little | 7" monitor (another $100) attached to your computer, creates a | nice setup for zoom calls where you can look directly at your | partner. Also doubles as a great talking head setup for video | production. | hammock wrote: | Do you have a good telepromper recommendation? I have found it | hard to search/find good ones at a good price. | mrdonbrown wrote: | I use the Caddie Buddy one [1], which is a bit more robust | for bigger cameras. There are other options where you can use | your phone or something, but I prefer using a mirrorless and | a good sized monitor. | | [1] https://caddiebuddy.com/teleprompter-for-ipads-androids- | and-... | dylan604 wrote: | Oh my! A teleprompter for less than $200! I haven't kept up | with this market, but that's so amazingly affordable. I've | long switched to tablet for the text, but this is easily 5x | cheaper than what I still use from a purchase back when | dinosaurs roamed the earth. I'm guessing that mine is 5x | heavier too. However, it is one of those things that once | you have it, you don't need a new one so I've just never | looked to see what is cheaper today | __mharrison__ wrote: | I got a teleprompter when Covid hit. I do a lot of training and | I use it mostly for "looking into the eyes" of my students. | | I have a twitter thread describing my setup. [0] | | Were I to do it again, I would get a slightly larger monitor | for it. I don't know if it is causation or just correlation | (I'm getting old) but my eyes have gotten a bit worse in the | past bit. | | 0 - | https://twitter.com/__mharrison__/status/1515078084600348677 | ldayley wrote: | I second this! I've been using one of these as well, and I've | noticed the positive impact looking directly at the camera can | have on my conversations. | robszumski wrote: | Do either of you have a shot of what this looks like in | practice? Google Images isn't giving me much. Specifically | what the Zoom or Meet looks like from your perspective. | mrdonbrown wrote: | Sure, this is what I see [1] and you can see how it looks | on the other side from my Twitch streams [2] | | [1] https://i.imgur.com/4JPIHx1.jpg [2] | https://www.twitch.tv/mrdonbrown | i_am_proteus wrote: | A decent webcam with good off-camera lighting yields most of the | benefits and none of the hassle of using complicated camera | equipment. | | I turn on the lights before teleconferences and turn them off | afterwards, everything else is plug and play. | bradlys wrote: | I hate to say this but it's almost entirely not worth it. | | The image quality only shows up here because they're uploading | images that they took from the camera locally. Trying doing it | with Zoom. | | The compression is absolutely terrible. You're gonna find that | you spent a lot of time and money only to see a decent quality | image _on your side_. Everyone else is gonna see the same muddy | mess that they always saw. | | The image is always bad due to the compression. If you're a | twitch steamer or something where you're doing a 50mbps bitrate | then whatever. But for most folks - there is little to no | improvement. Your best way to improve image quality would be to | improve lighting. Even a good camera will have a bad image with | bad lighting. | tjpd wrote: | Respectfully, I have to disagree. I have a similar setup to the | one in the article (Sony A6400 + Simga 30mm f1.4) and the | difference in image quality is dramatic _even over Zoom_. It is | such an improvement that, in my experience, almost every first | meeting that I have with someone over Zoom the other | participant will remark on how good my picture is. The | perception of "quality" has little to do with resolution issues | or compression artifacts and far more to do with good | framing/focal length, focus depth and bokeh all of which a good | camera setup has in spades and all of which webcams lack. | scyzoryk_xyz wrote: | The lens and sensor makes the biggest difference here - | paints a completely different picture due to capturing light | in the way were used to seeing in tv and film. | bradlys wrote: | > The lens and sensor makes the biggest difference here - | paints a completely different picture due to capturing | light in the way were used to seeing in tv and film. | | Not really true. It's often editing + lighting that really | has the strongest effect. | | $100k cameras can take dogshit videos and photos when you | don't know how to edit them properly or know how to light | the shot. | MoonSwell wrote: | Let's all just be honest with each other. It's an equal | mix of everything. An appropriate lens, lighting, and | post-production. | cogman10 wrote: | Strong disagree. | | Video streaming someone's work station is about as ideal as you | can imagine for most codecs. There is VERY little movement, | everything is consistent and stable. Change from frame to frame | is ultimately what determines how good a picture looks at a | given bitrate. Little change means the codecs can spend more | bits on fine details. | coryfklein wrote: | Uhh Zoom is _not_ going to erase the improved color balance and | bokeh. Although I 'll agree with you when it comes to the | author's claim about fine-grained facial details being improved | by the camera; those you'll almost certainly lose over Zoom | compression. | sebular wrote: | This is absolutely not true. | | I worked with a guy who used a DSLR as a webcam and his picture | was totally remarkable over Google Meet and Zoom. The very | first thing I did was send a screenshot of the meeting's tile | view to a friend, asking if he noticed anything funny about one | of the videos, and he easily spotted the one I was talking | about. | | Every time we had a new team member join the calls, they would | immediately comment on this guy's ridiculously nice picture | quality and ask him what kind of camera he had. | anonred wrote: | Sorry, but have you actually compared the two? As another point | of anecdata, I immediately noticed that my new coworker was | using a proper camera during our first 1:1. The depth of field | and crispness really stands out from your typical MacBook Pro | webcam. | stingraycharles wrote: | Is this true? I know that Zoom can stream in HD, I can't | imagine the extra detail getting lost in those resolutions? | bradlys wrote: | Bandwidth requirements for Group HD video | | Standard HD (720p) | | - 1-on-1 video calls: 1.2Mbps (up/down) | | - Group video calls: 2.6Mbps / 1.8Mbps (up/down) | | Full HD (1080p) | | - 1:1 video calls: | | -- Receiving 1080p HD video requires a minimum of 3.0Mbps. | | -- Sending 1080p video requires a minimum of 3.8Mbps. | | Group video calls: | | - Receiving 1080p HD video requires a minimum of 3.0Mbps. | | - Sending 1080p video requires a minimum of 3.8Mbps. | | https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/207347086-Using- | Gr... | | I know it says "minimum" there but it's likely going around | that rate most of the time or lower. I've worked in | environments where they pay tens of thousands of dollars per | room to set them up with professional cameras, high end | plans, etc. Compression ruins it all. May as well be a $10 | webcam. There are other requirements as to how you interact | with other members. You won't even get high quality unless | you full screen + make it to where you can only see one | member at a time. | a10c wrote: | > I've worked in environments where they pay tens of | thousands of dollars per room to set them up with | professional cameras | | Me too. The value isn't so much in the quality of video, | its things like PTZ control of the camera and preset | control of the position of the camera. For example, in a | larger room you can click a button 'whiteboard' on the | control panel and it will pan up and zoom in to the | whiteboard. | aeturnum wrote: | I think you are mostly right, but I'd rank it like this (from | best to worst combo of quality for time + cost): | | 1) "high end" webcam (~$200) | | 2) DSLR + capture card you already own | | 3) Any Webcam | | [...] | | 10) Buying a DSLR and capture card only for this | | You miss out on most of the benefits of a nice still camera | when you use it this way - 90% of people will have less trouble | and cost by just buying a better dedicated webcam. That said, | some people need a nice webcam _and_ need to produce video | content - they SHOULD use this setup (or at least try it). | Purpose-made webcams are "bad" as general purpose cameras but | good at what they are sold to do - deliver good enough video | that you expect to get murdered by compression. | bertman wrote: | I found my phone's camera together with DroidCam[0] to be good | enough for my conferencing needs. | | [0]https://www.dev47apps.com/ | plorg wrote: | Only thing I find annoying about Droidcam is that I end up | having to reinstall the audio and video drivers on Linux every | week or so, either due to updates, restarts, or PulseAudio | breaking. | mikece wrote: | "...the A6400 seems to be slightly better as a webcam." | | Contact me if you want to buy mine! I bought mine at the start of | quarantine for streaming live video at my local church but | haven't really used it much since. | leetrout wrote: | Yes, please! | | Twitter or email? My gmail is my username. | mikece wrote: | Email sent. | curiousgal wrote: | I guess the only reason for me not to try this is how insecure I | am about seeing my make-up free face in HD haha Solid write-up | though! | | For those with no camera, DroidCamX works rather well too! | florbo wrote: | Yep, I'm using a Pixel 2 with both DroidCamX and DroidCam OBS | (with OBS' virtual camera), I can second that claim. | | I occasionally use a Nexus 6 on another setup, but it's a bit | bulkier to mount and is a bit finicky with DroidCamX. It has | froze up on me a couple times. The OBS version works fine, | though. I'll chalk it up to not cleaning up the phone prior to | repurposing it. | PragmaticPulp wrote: | If you go this route, please make sure your system is robust and | ready to go before meetings. | | We had to ask one employee to go back to his reliable built-in | webcam because every other meeting started with 2 minutes of him | getting his camera turned on, messing with audio inputs, getting | his microphone boom in place, and fighting other quirks. He also | had a tendency to drop out of long meetings when his camera | overheated, at which point it was another 1-2 minutes of messing | around with the camera setup. | | If you're going to do this, it must be reliable and ready to go | before meetings. Don't be the person fighting with expensive | equipment all the time just to get a marginally better image for | your highly compressed Zoom video stream. This isn't a Twitch | stream. We just want to talk and get down to business. | scyzoryk_xyz wrote: | Amen. Can confirm this 100% - I just spent the past two years | doing robust physical tech product presentations with multi-cam | setups and many different video streaming configurations. It | always takes quite a bit of effort to set up and _something_ | doesn't work right randomly all-the-fucking-time. | usrn wrote: | Honestly the video adds pretty much nothing to a Zoom meeting. | You're better off without it. Maybe it's different for | managers/executives but for engineers it's more of a | distraction. | | People built Linux over _email._ Having audio meetings is more | than enough. | ajsnigrutin wrote: | We've had a few video meetings at the beginning of this whole | plage situation, but after a few weeks, cameras were left | turned on just for the initial "hi!"s and "hello!"s, and | after that, everyone turned their camera off, because | everyboy was watching the shared screen, and probably because | noone was wearing pants anymore. Now, we don't even turn them | on in the first place. | kadoban wrote: | Even for streamers, audio is _much_ more important than | video. You can have a potato webcam and get by, but if your | audio sounds like crap nobody is going to stick around at | all. | lancefisher wrote: | For almost everything, audio is the most important part of | video. | Sunspark wrote: | Unless one of the participants has some degree of hard-of- | hearing, in which case, being able to see the other person's | lip movements is really helpful. | usrn wrote: | I'd be shocked if that really came through with the | jitter/compression/etc. IMO Email is king for | accessibility, I wish people didn't hate on it so much. | | Lots of these tools do real time closed-caption now anyway. | SeasonalEnnui wrote: | I guess you're shocked then. Seeing lips is essential for | me, even works in poor quality streams. | munificent wrote: | I've got a very nice mirrorless camera and glass and eventually | came to the same conclusion: It's just not worth the hassle | even for the improvement in image quality. | | However, I have found that it's absolutely worth it to upgrade | to a better _microphone_. Just about anything is better than | the mic built into most computers and better voice quality will | give you more presence and make it significantly more enjoyable | for others to listen to you. Wearing headphones also helps so | that the computer isn 't forced to do echo cancelation on the | signal. | martin8412 wrote: | I use a Shure SM58 for voice chats. It works great. I have | less trouble with my USB XLR interface than the people using | Bluetooth | SamPatt wrote: | I 100% agree. I have a decent video and lighting setup and | never get comments on it, but I always get comments on my | audio. | | It's fairly easy to get an audio interface and a xlr | microphone. I always appreciate when other people have clean | audio. | Kudos wrote: | Every other day I have someone ask me about my mirrorless | setup (I frequently have calls with new people), it is night | and day to my expensive waste of a webcam. | FastMonkey wrote: | Ya, a good microphone makes a huge difference and it's just | plug and play. | cevn wrote: | That sounds unfortunate. After a few kinks at the beginning, | I've moved to using my nikon z6 as webcam. The first kink was | power delivery, I found a plug that goes into the battery slot. | | After that everything works flawlessly. | ISL wrote: | This advice goes for... life. Don't switch over from something | reliable to a newer/flashier solution until the reliability of | a new system gets close-enough that you won't break critical | functionality. | | Source: Recently swapped over to a better camera, after testing | it out in informal meetings and verifying reliable function... | ldayley wrote: | Agree! It took time to learn how to do this effectively while | remaining mobile/nomadic, and it forced me to decide what | meetings are worth it which ones aren't. For all of the gear I | have (as a filmmaker...) I fall back to using an iPad quite a | bit on the road. | NikolaNovak wrote: | Agree 100% - This is why I eventually dropped it. I used to run | a photography side gig, so I reused my full frame DSLR, nice | portrait lens and lighting + cloth backdrop. But I had cables | everywhere and multiple points of failure in the chain. Camera | could overheat, software was wonky, something would get | unplugged, and there was stress on the CPU at times too due to | 3rd party apps required. | | Overall it just wasn't worth the effort, especially once I | realized nobody cared or even really noticed. Now, absolutely, | many projects are worth doing for their own sake and for your | own satisfaction :). But while accomplishing it brought that | satisfaction, continued use on daily bases just wasn't worth | it. | | So I looked for a nice webcam with narrowest possible FOV | (which is the opposite from what manufacturers are going for, | unfortunately), put it on a tripod with ring light, and I get | results that are externally undistinguishable (if not better), | but FAR superior reliability. | | ---- | | Note also that photographer in me wanted to do a Portrait shot | with zoom in my face. Interestingly, overwhelming feedback once | I actually asked real people, is that they PREFERRED a wide | shot with my office visible. Made it more human and less | stark/intimidating, apparently. So as ever, don't make | assumptions of your user base! :) | skrbjc wrote: | What camera did you end up with that had a narrow FOV? | NikolaNovak wrote: | Hi - I assume your question is which webcam did I use for | narrow FOV - for actual camera, it's trivial to pick a lens | or zoom :). | | I ended up getting Logitech Brio. It's expensive for a | webcam, and honestly I'm a bit peeved - I don't feel I am | getting my money's worth in terms of image quality. The | software is also absolutely atrocious, so I don't really | use it. But it is the best compromise of image quality and | FOV that I could find. | | (if your question was about DOF / bokeh/ blur, no webcam | will do that and so far I haven't liked any software | options. I just put a black collapsible photography | background behind me so nothing but me is in the photo to | begin with :) | osener wrote: | I find the LogiTune software good enough for managing my | Brio webcam. Certainly less buggy and frustrating on Mac | than some other official software I tried previously. | | https://www.logitech.com/en-us/video- | collaboration/software/... | randerson wrote: | I can recommend a full-frame Canon RP ($999) with RF 35mm | f1.8 lens ($449) as a relatively inexpensive narrow FOV | setup. | | Edited to add: Meant Narrow DOF when writing this, but both | are true if you sit close to it! | aaronharnly wrote: | OP here was referring to webcams with narrow FOVs | randerson wrote: | My bad, I read this as "narrow DOF", in which case a low | f-stop helps.. Will leave the recommendation for anyone | who wants a nice background blur. But perhaps go for a | 50mm f1.8 if you want a narrower FOV. | phantomread wrote: | Amateur photographer looking to learn more here. My | initial impression is that a 35mm focal length on a full- | frame/35mm film equivalent sensor would have a relatively | _wide_ field of view (FOV). Or do I have that backwards? | | My other thought is that the suggested lens can stop down | to f1.8, which would give a nice narrow depth of field | (DOF) and add a pleasant background blur, but it would | also be harder to stay in focus during a call. If the | person on camera moves forward or backward very much at | all when the lens is at f1.8, they would be pretty | blurry. So perhaps they could get away with a lens that | just stops down to f2.8 or so, albeit with worse low- | light performance (smaller aperture, less light coming | through). | | But take these comments with a grain of salt. It sounds | like you have a setup that works well for you. | randerson wrote: | Yeah, not enough coffee - got my DOF and FOV mixed up. | | In any case I find if you sit close to your camera, 35mm | is a good FOV that will fit in your head and shoulders. | The background blur for f/1.8 works well if you enable | Servo Autofocus with Face Detect. It will momentarily get | confused if you step out of the frame and back in again, | but it can track a face pretty well after that. | phantomread wrote: | Just checked using a camera and you're right; a person | right around "conversation distance" from the camera | focusing at 35mm looks pretty natural in frame for a | video call. It sounds like I underestimated modern | continuous autofocus. Great info from you and the sibling | comments, thanks. | NikolaNovak wrote: | Not the OP but the GP, FWIW: | | On full frame I used 85mm 1.8 to get a a good FOV / DOF / | proportions. | | But it sat on a tripod 1.5 meters behind my computer and | made the room a nightmare to navigate :D | | 35mm on FF would indeed be mildly wide (just on wide side | of "normal" 50mm lens) | jakebasile wrote: | Most modern cameras have the ability to do constant | autofocus in video mode, to varying degrees of quality | and success. Usually they will try to follow anything | that looks like a human face, or at least the brightest | object in the field of view. | | That said, even the greatest autofocus isn't going to be | able to keep up with a person who moves around a lot at | f/1.8 - so it's reasonable to stop down a bit if that's | the case for your subject. | foo92691 wrote: | "relatively inexpensive" | maccard wrote: | Thats roughly my team's budget for a laptop. | munk-a wrote: | To be honest, 1.5k is a pretty decent budget for any non- | gaming laptop. It's definitely a red flag to start at a | company and get a bargain bin laptop, but giving out 5k | laptops to every new hire is probably just being wasteful | with about 3.5k. Chairs & desks are where penny pinching | is an even more dreadful flaw. | | If you expect someone to sit for 8 hours a day give them | a good chair lest they start having back issues after two | months of employment. | __mharrison__ wrote: | Yes, if you are using a camera for the webcam, it should | probably be dedicated to it. Mine is a Canon M50, attached into | a quick-release shoe into a teleprompter but even then it still | two wires (USB and HDMI) and I also have to take out the AC | power adapter to use the camera on its own. | | I'm using mine all the time (I do corporate training and | haven't done in-person since March 2020), so it sits in the | mount. I also know the correct combination of rain/blow-into- | the-Nintendo dances to get OBS and other software to work with | it. | deathanatos wrote: | ... I mean, that's Bose QC headset's & macOS's relationship | with Bluetooth, in a nutshell. | | Heck, I've had to fight to just get the onboard to function, | particularly so in MS Teams. | nunez wrote: | He was probably using software, like Canon's Webcam Utility, to | stream his camera's HDMI OUT to his computer instead of using a | capture card. He likely did this because of his camera not | having "clean" HDMI output (i.e. you'd see icons if he were to | capture what was on his camera's screen). Software like this is | extremely unreliable by comparison and consumes CPU cycles like | crazy, both on the camera and on your computer. | | Additionally, for most cameras, the input feed used by the | software goes through the camera's image processing stack as if | they were using the real-time "Live View" feature (i.e. showing | you the image you're going to take post-processing, i.e. real- | time image processing). This often heats the camera up and | causes it to shut down due to thermal overload. If you use a | capture card, it captures whatever's on the screen without | hitting the image processing stack, which is much less | resource-intensive. | | The first person I interviewed with this setup had the same | problem. He looked great, but the software processing the input | from his camera made him lag horribly. | | I have a Canon M200 mirrorless SLR with an Elgato HDMI Capture | card and have used it for all-day online meetings (even through | OBS!) with no issues at all. Startup takes me, like, 30 | seconds: turn key and fill lights on, turn camera on, press | hotkey to start OBS, Krisp and Zoom, turn on video. | __mharrison__ wrote: | I'm using a Canon M50 just with the webcam software. (I don't | think it has clean HDMI out so capture card won't help with | this camera.) | | I've since started recording some of my courses directly from | OBS. [0] The framerate probably suffers, but I've never had | thermal/overheating issues. | | 0 - https://store.metasnake.com/view/courses/a1a19c9e-af18-46 | 15-... | scyzoryk_xyz wrote: | I'm starting to suspect something is wrong with our Elgato | card because it has been a hit and miss experience for a long | time now. We also have a knock off chinese 4k stream box (not | the total dirt cheap ones) and that has sometimes been better | than the elgato. | PragmaticPulp wrote: | > He was probably using software, like Canon's Webcam | Utility, to stream his camera's HDMI OUT to his computer | instead of using a capture card. | | No, he was using an HDMI capture card and trying to do things | with OBS. | | > Startup takes me, like, 30 seconds: turn key and fill | lights on, turn camera on, press hotkey to start OBS, Krisp | and Zoom, turn on video. | | Which is all great and fine if you've got it perfected and | you're the type of person to handle all of this before the | meeting starts. | | But when someone shows up late to a meeting or forgets to | prepare, it's far easier for everyone involve if they can | just open their laptop and join the meeting with the built-in | webcam instead of turning on their camera, turning on lights, | starting OBS, confirming all the settings, etc. | randomdata wrote: | If you don't need a "pro" setup for the Zoom call, you | don't need video at all. Nobody cares to see your low | resolution, grainy face. | spicybright wrote: | Disagree. You still get a ton from a low res image of a | person vs a static image. | | Same way how you get a lot from talking face to face vs | talking on the phone. | | Why would my coworkers need to see the individual pores | on my nose anyways? | tomxor wrote: | Agreed. | | However one thing I have noticed is mic quality | matters... up to a point. | | I'm not even talking mic booms and super expensive | setups, the difference between some omnidirectional mic | on the bottom of a laptop or the side of one of those | bluetooth headphones and pretty much _any_ headset with a | mic pointed at your actual face is night and day. It | doesn 't need to be expensive, but it does need to be | within reasonable proximity to your mouth, and preferably | not over a questionably compressed bluetooth stream. | modzu wrote: | just upload pictures of your faces to zoom and there u go | boss | ChuckNorris89 wrote: | Like profile pictures? | jtvjan wrote: | Take a picture of your face, set it as your background in | OBS, and stream that. It's much more convenient, because | you only have to make sure your camera works well once, | instead of for every meeting. | mkr-hn wrote: | You could even have it change at random intervals so it | looks like you're on a choppy connection. | dvtrn wrote: | Let's just end the simulacra and embrace the absurd, take | a video of yourself walking into the room, acting | surprised that someone's on a call and awkwardly backing | out of the room, if your platform supports animated | backgrounds, use it. | | Take anyone who notices and asks if you have a previously | undisclosed twin-sibling out to dinner for being | observant. | | Bonus points if you wear the same clothes as your video | self to really mess with someone's head | GekkePrutser wrote: | Yeah Apple's network link conditioner is great for this. | If you don't want to send video but the organizer | insists, just tune it down to the point your audio goes | roboty. They'll be begging you to turn off video to | improve the connection :D | formerly_proven wrote: | > Additionally, for most cameras, the input feed used by the | software goes through the camera's image processing stack as | if they were using the real-time "Live View" feature (i.e. | showing you the image you're going to take post-processing, | i.e. real-time image processing). This often heats the camera | up and causes it to shut down due to thermal overload. If you | use a capture card, it captures whatever's on the screen | without hitting the image processing stack, which is much | less resource-intensive. | | These pathways are the same. You're decidedly not getting raw | video out of (most) consumer cameras via HDMI. | DreamFlasher wrote: | And if you don't go that route, please make sure to turn off | your camera. | | From what I've seen people being late is more often a problem | of the people and not the hardware. | | And if after three years of remote work, you weren't capable of | getting a working microphone, camera and stable internet | connection, I'd con that as a people problem, too. Working | meaning you can actually hear the other person and not only | their fan. | danielodievich wrote: | My setup is: Older Nikon D71000 DSLR here with 17-55mm on wall- | mount Elgato Cam 4k dongle mentioned in the article two good | lights with nice diffusers to the left and right of my monitor | facing the wall, for reflected light HyperX glowy red mike with | physical mute, love that thing | | This gear works 100% of the time, all the time, in Zoom, Google | Meet, Teams, Webex, you name it. | | Bootup is definitely does some things, turning on two lights, | camera on/off switch, and a small button on back of it to shift | to the 1080p output. But at this point it is just seconds, | muscle memory. | | I get a lot of compliments on quality, clearness, and the | natural optical effect of out of focus blurred background. | | And I definitely notice other people's poor lightning, bad | quality picture, artifacting of cheapo webcams or got forbid | native built in laptop cameras. | gkoberger wrote: | I had a similar setup, and it was a pain. It was flaky and | clunky. | | I switched to a Logitech Brio, and have been very happy. It's | almost just as good, with no hassle. Highly recommend for anyone | looking for an upgrade without wanting to go all-in. | | https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/webcams/brio-4k-hdr-... | hu3 wrote: | For those of us with less than perfect skin, using a webcam can | be a feature. | | Also I found out that the difference in image quality between a | good webcam and a semi-professional camera is not that big after | video compression. | formerly_proven wrote: | One big advantage of a dedicated camera over a webcam is that | you can get a focal length that actually makes sense, instead | of an ultra-wide angle. | | Apart from that it's pearls before swine - any mm2 of sensor | area above 1/4" OF doesn't matter for MS Teams video crushing. | karaterobot wrote: | "Wow, karaterobot, your ultra compressed, stuttery video signal | has such a great color gamut and and brightness. The 2-inch | square your face lives in on my monitor looks amazing, except for | the compression and stuttering. Did you get a new camera? ... | What's that? Can't hear you... your audio is... yeah you sound | like a robot... oops, looked like we lost him." | kuschku wrote: | It's ridiculous that even the free tier of Jitsi Meet gets | better quality than most expensive videochatting services. | tzs wrote: | We had a surprising result using a "proper" camera instead of a | webcam for a task. | | We needed to take a picture of a particular thing every 15 | seconds over a weekend. Our first though was to get a cheap | webcam that has some reasonable interface to retrieve static | images. | | Then someone remembered that the owner of the company was doing | some personal projects that involved photography and he had a | bunch of cameras in his office. One of them was a Canon Digital | Rebel. That could be controlled by a computer. | | The owner always liked to save money, so agreed to let us use the | Canon for the weekend. I wrote a script to trigger it every 15 | seconds, set it running Friday before I left, and came back | Monday to see how it went. | | What I found was a dead camera. The electronics seemed fine, but | something mechanical was broken. A bit of poking around on camera | forums turned up that something in the mechanics of the Digital | Rebel didn't like extended rapid picture taking, and apparently | every 15 seconds counted as rapid if you were doing it for more | than a few hours. | | We then bought an under $100 Logitech webcam that ran a web | server on its ethernet interface that made available a URL that | when fetched gave you a static image of whatever the camera was | currently looking at. It was simple to write a script to hit that | URL every 15 seconds and save the result in a file named with the | current timestamp. That ran flawlessly over the weekend capturing | all the images we needed. | zrail wrote: | > We then bought an under $100 Logitech webcam that ran a web | server on its ethernet interface | | Wait hold up. Logitech webcams run web servers and have | ethernet interfaces? | someweirdperson wrote: | Maybe confused with Logilink? | andix wrote: | I would like to have the ease of use of a webcam (plug it in via | usb and it works), and the quality of a dedicated camera. And a | possibility to make some presets (focus, zoom, crop, white | balance), that are on by default and can be switched easily. | | It doesn't have to be perfect, just better than a standard | Logitech Webcam. If it would be in the quality range of an iPhone | camera, I would be super happy. | | Any ideas what to buy? | mwarkentin wrote: | These look neat but not widely available yet: | https://opalcamera.com | andix wrote: | Yes, something like that. But not Mac-only and without a 4 | usd per month subscription service to use it... | nrmitchi wrote: | For what it's worth, the camera itself functions just fine | without the additional software (which currently still has | its quarks). I'm sure you could replicate at least most of | the software functionality with OBS if you really wanted | to. | nicolas_ wrote: | Do you have a spare smartphone lying around? Install Camo or | any other alternative on it. Connect your smartphone via USB, | launch the app, and you're done. | | https://reincubate.com/camo/ | andix wrote: | This is way too brittle. What happens if someone calls me? | Then I need to check if the smartphone is on, open the app, | make sure it's connected. | | I want it to just work. With zero overhead. | nicolas_ wrote: | Disable any sleep function on the smartphone and keep it | connected to an USB port with the app opened? | NamTaf wrote: | Protip: if your goal is to use your smartphone as a webcam, check | out this: https://vdo.ninja | | Written by some guy named Steve, it's an incredible piece of web | software that uses WebRTC to stream phone audio and video as an | OBS input. OBS then features a virtual webcam capability to take | that stream and make it a webcam. I can then also use OBS to do | whatever processing I want, e.g. making my webcam also contain a | screen share or whatever else. | | It's trivial to then load up multiple instances for multi-angle | scenes in OBS, then cut between the two. For example, you could | have one 'face' camera and one 'page' camera showing paper on | your desk and make a 2nd scene with the 'page' camera as the | primary and a small PIP view of your face. | | It goes much farther than just being an input for OBS, though. | For example, it can create video chatrooms of multiple | participants with URL parameter configuration and without | touching OBS (indeed that's now one of its primary use cases). | | I use it to stream applications/webpages with my partner when | we're apart so we can watch a movie together by creating a high | res vid/stereo audio input with no noise cancelling as the movie, | then have her and I connect as lower quality, mono+noise | cancelling participants. Each of us receives the video and audio | of the movie, but only the audio of each other. | | There's heaps of parameters to control video and audio quality, | buffering, etc. - just about anything you need. | | I stumbled across it when I was trying to get my iPhone to be a | webcam early on in the pandemic. There's multiple apps for that | purpose - many paid - but this was _so_ easy and worked so well | that it blew them out of the water from a capability perspective. | | I know I sound like a shill but honestly I'm just a huge fanboy. | It's one of those web apps that does a job really bloody well, | with heaps of flexibility and extensibility. I'm genuinely | impressed with it and all the hard work Steve's clearly put in. | | The docs explain a lot of its capability: https://docs.vdo.ninja/ | | Flick through the how it works and use cases pages, they'll | explain it far better than me. | | Guides that show sown of the advanced capability: | https://docs.vdo.ninja/guides | fulafel wrote: | How is the latency? | dekhn wrote: | Does anybody know how to source a WebRTC stream for OBS inputs? | In particular, I have a python program and want something that | looks like: rtc = open_stream_to_obs(address) while True: | rtc.send_frame(my_numpy_array) | Acen wrote: | > https://vdo.ninja | | An alternative for a local network is running NDI. That's how | for events we stream a bunch of remote cameras (and even | computers on the network) into visual displays. | | https://www.ndi.tv/ | | There are NDI apps for most phones etc. | dddddaviddddd wrote: | I use something similar to stream video from a Pixel phone over | USB to OBS (Droidcam). I tried doing it over WiFi but the | latency is better over a wire. | kejaed wrote: | At work we had to create a streaming setup to provide remote | training to a customer on the other side of the world that | involved parachute packing & guided drone integration. Stuff | that was usually done in person but due to the pandemic | traveling was not an option at that time. | | vdo.ninja and a couple of iPod Touch's (RIP) were really useful | to give the trainers the ability to walk around the parachute | loft to get up close and personal with a specific set of | equipment. Combined with OBS, some powerpoint plug-ins, and | vdo.ninja, we were able to bring something together that worked | really well in no time at all. | tveyben wrote: | This was the best tip of the day - this is why I read HN - to | find such gems. Work smart - not hard, thank you for the tip | NamTaf!!! | mcdonje wrote: | I agree with the blogger that you should go with a smaller sensor | size. In addition to better price points, they have less scanning | to do for each image and should work better for this scenario. | I've heard reports of some full frame mirrorless cameras | overheating when used extensively for video. | formerly_proven wrote: | That really entirely depends on the brand / model. Some will | overheat in under an hour, some will go on forever as long as | you supply power. Price has nothing to do with it. | | DSLRs will almost certainly be a cheaper option than a | mirrorless camera for this, because pretty much any DSLR from | the last ten or so years works for this, and there are many | more of them. Autofocus and availability of clean HDMI in | video-liveview mode depends though. Many support direct | streaming over USB using proprietary tools. | kuschku wrote: | > DSLRs will almost certainly be a cheaper option than a | mirrorless camera for this, because pretty much any DSLR from | the last ten or so years works for this, and there are many | more of them | | That used to be true, but with used a6300 cameras going for | around 300EUR nowadays, it's not the case anymore. | alexitosrv wrote: | I disagree with the people here saying that no image is better | than a camera feed. As an individual contributor and trainer | myself, multiple times, I've found out that looking at someone | explaining something in itself adds value. It doesn't need to be | a sales pitch, you can discuss something with a colleague with a | shared whiteboard, and still I appreciate seeing another one, | their expressions, face complexion, mood, even their cats, dogs, | etc. | | That doesn't subtract to the fact that audio is the stronger | medium. A great mic setup is orders of magnitude better than a | pretty face via a DSLR. Podcastage has been one of my favorite | youtubers on the matter since last year, | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEMZa5VN3Zw, and in that video he | somewhat proves the point. | | For camera recommendations, I agree with the majority that it | needs to be a reliable setup. I was not a fan of DSLR with | capture cards precisely because of that. I recommend AverMedia | line of 4K webcams which have good defaults, amazing glass and | have a great resolution and adjustable depth of field. In the | past I used an Aver C340 4K which is amazing, but bulky, and now | more recently I use a PW513 which is way better than anything | Logitech has to offer. | JamesMcMinn wrote: | I've been using an A6300 with a Sigma 16mm f1.4 lens (both of | which I already had), mounted to the monitors stand using a basic | clamp. It works great, looks fantastic [3] and I still get a lot | of compliments for how good my video quality is. | | One issue I did run into was getting a decent HDMI -> USB capture | device that works with Linux. My first choice was a high end | (~PS200) ClonerAlliance Flint 4KP [1] which worked fine for | Hangouts, but had issues with Zoom and actually seemed to get | worse as time went on and it eventually became a bit of a joke as | I tried to join calls and had to restart my camera, unplug | cables, etc. just to get video. Eventually, I swapped it out for | a cheap PS15 no-name brand from Amazon and have had literally 0 | issues since [2]. | | The biggest drawback to this sort of setup is that if you're | using a camera you already own, it can be a pain to switch | between using it as a camera and using it as a web cam, so I've | essentially got an expensive camera that I don't get to use as a | camera very often. The advantage of course is that even on a | dark, rainy evening with nothing more than a small lamp hidden | behind my monitor, the image still comes out looking great [3]. | | [1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07YY52YP6/ | | [2] https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09955PYSH/ | | [3] https://i.imgur.com/ReHStnV.png | Derbasti wrote: | Very similar setup here: Sony a5100 + Samyang 30 + Elgato Cam | Link 4k and a usb-powered dummy battery. This setup has been | rock-solid for over a year now, and I run it all day, every | day. | | Also useful is Sony's remote control, for engaging/disengaging | autofocus without reaching for the camera. The a5100 has a | useful flip-up screen, where I can see myself. | | Before that, I was running a RasPi Zero with a HQ camera module | and a C-mount lens as a webcam. That worked well, too. Better | image quality than any of my colleagues, but a long shot from | the Sony, obviously. | dekhn wrote: | My only suggestion was going to be "get the cheapest HDMI->USB | you can find", but I see you also discovered that trick :) | kohlerm wrote: | I use a Canon 600d with a 50mm 1.4 lens.people say it looks | professional | 01100011 wrote: | How does this compare to using something like the Raspberry Pi HQ | camera and a decent c mount lens? | filmgirlcw wrote: | I've done this for two years with an A6400 (that is sadly | discontinued and now sells for 2x the price with a kit) and a | CamLink 4K, and I'm very happy with the results but for the usual | web meeting, it's overkill to spend $1100 on your setup (before | lighting). | | I record a lot of video in my office so it's a different thing, | but I think the new Opal camera ($300, I got one last week) is | pretty great. It's going to be my new travel camera setup. | cr3ative wrote: | I'll put Reincubate Camo here as an option too - turns your | iPhone in to a webcam. | | I was so impressed I bought a used iPhone to use solely as a | webcam; the whole setup was cheaper than the Logitech C920 he | mentions. | | The picture quality is great. | fakename wrote: | camo is great. I was doing what the OP outlines at the | beginning of the pandemic with an a6000 and a $10 ebay hdmi | capture card. It looked 10% better than camo for 100% more | effort. | hammock wrote: | Can you use portrait mode? | ldayley wrote: | Camo does support portrait mode, but I think it's a paid | feature included with the "Pro" version on iOS. | pineconewarrior wrote: | Seconding Camo. It's not as cheap as the Elgato offering but I | found the quality and options to be superior. | gernb wrote: | what stand/mount do you use and where is it on your setup? | (right now I have crappy logitech hanging on to top of monitor) | fakename wrote: | I use a flat piece of cardboard, folded with slots cut for | the phone on top, and the monitor on bottom. | | https://imgur.com/a/InImQFo | | I just switched from an old apple cinema display to a modern | monitor with small bezels, so I need to cut a new one to stop | it from blocking the top of my screen. | caiusdurling wrote: | I've got a lego stand built from a few bricks holding an | iPhone 7 in landscape above my screen. The lens is maybe 18mm | above the top of the display pixels. | nicwolff wrote: | These $10 selfie sticks with handles that open into a stand | are actually great and much more compact and portable when | closed than even a small tripod | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09B6QHZK5 | straws wrote: | If you have one of the newer magsafe iPhones, you can attach | one of these to the wall (front camera) or the back of your | monitor (back cameras): | | https://www.shopmoment.com/products/wall-mount-for- | magsafe/s... | EveYoung wrote: | Does this work with the Teams client on MacOS without having to | disable code signing? | minimaxir wrote: | With the latest update on macOS 12.3, it _should_ work with | any camera-using app as it uses the native macOS APIs. | cruano wrote: | I repurposed my old 6s and I gotta say the quality is | excellent. And the free version of the software has more than | enough for most people, so this could very well be a completely | free upgrade for someone. | | I do have a lifetime license, and have tested it with my 12 pro | and while it obviously looks better, most of the time I stay | with the 6s and default settings since I can just leave it | mounted on top of my monitor. | olah_1 wrote: | Don't iPhones do that annoying thing where it shows your image | flipped the wrong way when you use the selfie camera? Selfie | cameras should always behave like a mirror, in my opinion. It's | how humans are used to seeing themselves. | [deleted] | bydo wrote: | I forget if that's the default or not, but if it is you can | disable it. You ideally wouldn't use the selfie camera, | though; the rear camera has a bigger sensor and a better | lens. | ldayley wrote: | Zoom and I think Teams and OBS have a setting to flip the | video input. | cr3ative wrote: | There's an option to flip the image, you can have it either | way. | antomeie wrote: | Shameless plug here, but I want to mention the free alternative | https://webcamplus.app for Mac/iOS. (It is a personal project | of mine). | hammock wrote: | Does it support portrait mode? | antomeie wrote: | No, unfortunately I have not added that feature yet, but it | is on the list. | rkeene2 wrote: | This looks neat. It seems like it requires you to install | software on the system, which is often (usually?) not an | option. | | Is there anything like this that shows up as a webcam without | additional software that doesn't come with the OS (i.e., uses a | driver already available on Windows, Linux, ChromeOS like most | webcams such as the Logitech C920 do) ? | birdman3131 wrote: | A cheapish alternative is to use | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ndi-hx-camera/id1477266080 or | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.newtek.ndi... | and OBS as a webcam. The back camera on most phones is quite a | bit better than any webcam. | | Yes the app is $20 but for me it was worth it. | tonyhb wrote: | You can also use https://vdo.ninja/ for free to stream the | phone camera to OBS. | some-guy wrote: | Another good option is to use an older flagship smartphone. I | have a heavily cracked iPhone 8 that works wonderfully as a | webcam. | [deleted] | ratsimihah wrote: | I've been using a Sony A7iii and it's been great until I switch | to an m1 mac. No compatibility anymore. | jccalhoun wrote: | A cheaper but somewhat more kludgy solution is using an old | camcorder with a line out and converting that to USB. | | I had an old camcorder laying around (a samsung | https://www.samsung.com/ca/support/model/SC-MX20/XAC/ ) with | composite out and I also had a composite to hdmi converter and | another to convert hdmi to usb. (they also make composite to usb | all in converters) I found the box for the samsung camcorder and | I still had the RCA output cable. Chained them all together and | windows sees it as a usb camera. | | Works without a hitch so far. | hathym wrote: | honestly I can't tell the difference. for online meetings both | are good enough as long as I am not colsulting a dermatologist | for a problem with my skin. | wnolens wrote: | Latency and audio quality are wayyy more important than video | quality. | | Optimizing for that would have me downgrade the video resolution | being received by the 8-10 people on my calls. | | Also what are the folks on the receiving end actually seeing? | Certainly not the image he posted. | birdyrooster wrote: | Why does my Go Pro Hero 9 Black not work as a webcam with | anything other than Cisco WebEx on MacOS? I can't get it to work | with OBS or Discord on Mac, and I can't get any video from it on | Windows. It's a fucking mess. | gcoguiec wrote: | I bought an Anker PowerConf C200 for less than 60 bucks; I | expected an OK camera, but it's surprisingly good! | waddlesworth wrote: | I have a pretty full on setup, with a condenser microphone on a | boom, studio lights and softboxes pointed at me, with a full | frame mirrorless camera and a high frame rate capture card. | | I tried doing meetings with it, but ended up getting a lot of | inane comments about it, particularly as the microphone is in | frame. Personally, I don't want to draw attention to myself in a | meeting, so I've ended up going back to using a terrible webcam | for work, like everyone else. | draw_down wrote: | scyzoryk_xyz wrote: | Ha! That would be the off putting trying too hard effect | hnthrowaway0328 wrote: | Actually I prefer not to show face during any meeting. So | probably won't buy an extra camera just for that. However, could | be useful once I'm semi-retired and start streaming retro gaming. | post_break wrote: | I use my GoPro and it's pretty excellent. The logitech C920 is | amazing when using the software "webcam settings" unfortunately | the app no longer works. You could adjust the gain, exposure, | every setting that logitech for some reason does not let you | adjust. I could get incredible quality out of that thing with | that software, but since I can't use it on my M1 it's garbage. | chiefgeek wrote: | Use Camo and your iPhone FTW! | dijonman2 wrote: | Video muting needs to be normalized | canbus wrote: | > Most kit lenses are pretty bad | | errrr... no they aren't. The 24-85 I have on my Nikon D600 is | extremely sharp. The 18-55 on most DX Nikons is also pin sharp. | For a webcam it surely doesn't even matter? | probabletrain wrote: | I agree with you. For use as a webcam, however, the author is | probably after a much shallower depth of field than kit lenses | generally provide, so opts for a fast prime lens. | vlunkr wrote: | I'd love to see stats on how many people actually still use | webcams for online meetings. I rarely do, and I don't care if | anyone else turns theirs on. Watching someone act like they | aren't hyper-aware of what they look like on camera adds very | little value to the conversation. Unless you're in sales, trying | to make a good impression, or some kind of introductory meeting, | who cares? | rane wrote: | It's nice to see your colleagues and it adds an extra dimension | to meetings. | karaterobot wrote: | It's a higher bandwidth signal. There's a lot of information | conveyed in a person's face and posture. Seeing their reaction | to what you say tells you more than just hearing their voice. | It's also useful for avoiding collisions where everybody tries | to talk at once, and even for identifying who clearly wants to | say something, but may be hesitant to do so. | gammarator wrote: | Personally I use the "turn off self view" option in Zoom, which | at least reduces my own self-consciousness (and Zoom fatigue!). | ldayley wrote: | True. But I think one can avoid the credibility damage | presenting or appearing poorly over time can cause with just a | little thought about audio and lighting etc. There are gains to | be had simply by being seen and heard better even if there is | low 'diminishing returns' point. | Graffur wrote: | Some work environments really encourage them. I work in teams | that always use them and in other teams that never use them. I | don't think they add anything to conversations at all. | jonpurdy wrote: | What I am surprised about is that nobody has made a high quality | UVC camera with a large sensor and great lens, specifically for | videoconferencing. | | Even the "good" webcams (like the Elgato FaceCam and Logi Brio) | have tiny sensors with small lenses. And iPhones (with Reincubate | Camo) have bigger but still relatively tiny sensors. | | Pair an APS-C sensor with a ~24mm f/2 lens, with no controls; | just a USB connection. This would barely be bigger than the lens | itself (think double the size of Apple's old iSight). | | I'd easily pay $400 or more for this just to avoid messing around | with mirrorless cameras and trying to mount them and use their | drivers or HDMI capture USB interfaces. | Melatonic wrote: | An old phone is probably your best bet - you do not necessarily | need that big of a sensor to get decent video. As long as you | can provide enough light to keep the noise down and the lens | (there are addon lenses for phones that are not half bad) is | decent you can achieve probably what you want. The phone will | have the necessary horsepower to actually process the video - I | think that is probably the main issue vs a webcam | | More importantly though why does most conferencing software | limit us to such low resolutions? From what I remember Zoom is | still max or 720P which is pretty damn terrible.... | ISL wrote: | Yep -- I'm real surprised Logitech hasn't shipped such a thing. | $2-400 is the sweet spot. At ~$600, one starts being able to | use a Canon M50 and a 22mm f/2 for plug-and-play high-end | webcam usage. | | There's a huge market there that doesn't know it wants one yet, | but it will once it becomes available. | jannyfer wrote: | Off topic, but does anyone know which monitor that is? Looks | beautiful. | Hamcha wrote: | Only tangentially related but if you already have a popular | Logitech webcam (like the C920) chances are you can find a kit to | mount C/CS/D-mount lenses on it, like with this one: | https://www.kurokesu.com/shop/C920_REWORK_KIT2 | | C/CS/D mounts are for CCTV camera so you can find new and used | lens for cheap. They will not fix a cheap/bad sensor, but they | will definitely get you extra flexibility in what kind of | framing/shot you can do. | zrail wrote: | With these kits do you lose the ability to autofocus? | porphyra wrote: | I got a Mokose UC70 USB C mount camera on Amazon. It's just a | plug and play webcam but I mounted a Ricoh f/1.4 lens on it and | it's fantastic. Much cheaper than getting a real mirrorless | camera too. | Karawebnetwork wrote: | Do you know of sites with examples of the results? | james_xu wrote: | This right here is the best solution I've found. I have their | Brio kit w/2.8-12mm CS lens and it's excellent in a small | package. Low light conditions are still a challenge due to the | tiny sensor. | | As a bonus, you can disconnect the built in mics and opt for a | nice boom mic with a hardware cut off switch. | danjc wrote: | How would you disconnect the built in mic? | alx__ wrote: | If I understand that correctly, it's a mount to allow you to | use a normal camera lens? That are a specific screw-thread | type? | | Similar to how you can get mounts for phones to improve the | shot options? | ldayley wrote: | One thing that I've been trying to educate my colleagues about | (including the A/V folks!) is that one can bypass the need to | fiddle with drivers by using a generic hardware HDMI -> USB video | conversion stick utilizing the mirrorless/DSLR's HDMI output. | It'll mount as a generic video input that Zoom/Teams/OBS can use. | You can find these for $40-$100 and it allows one to switch out | hardware brands at will without installing drivers. And don't | forget that it opens up a world of filmmaking mics to complete | the package, and sends it all on one cable! | | I've used Fujifilm, Sony, Canon, Panasonic, and I think even a | gopro once successfully using this method. | | Edit - added mic suggestion | | Also: this works for me on Win/Mac, but I've not tried Linux yet. | sudosysgen wrote: | I even got one for 8$ on AliExpress, it's still working fine | two years on :) | | It's a bit limited in that it only does 1080p30 and it's not | the best quality either. | rhplus wrote: | Ditto. I'm currently using an old Nikon D5100 with a generic | HMDI->USB input stick ($15), a generic USB-->battery adaptor | ($35) and a custom firmware (to remove borders and menus) from | https://nikonhacker.com/ | | The body is old enough to not car about voiding warranties by | using a generic battery adaptor and custom firmware. | hkon wrote: | Yes, using this with my XT2. Works perfectly. | chrisseaton wrote: | Isn't the video interface over USB standard? You don't need | drivers do you? Just plug and play. | dividedbyzero wrote: | At least my Fuji X-T4 insists on its own driver that makes | use of live view video the camera sends via some proprietary | protocol and exposes that as a virtual webcam. It doesn't do | USB webcam sadly. | raesene9 wrote: | This is the method I use, in conjunction with the Sony ZV-1 | which gets a mention in the article. It also bypasses the | problem mentioned in the article about turning up as a mass | storage device. | | What I've found is that by USB charging and using HDMI out, | it's good for ~2.5 hours of streaming, which I've only ever hit | once as a limit. | | there's a newer Sony in the same line (the ZV-E10) but it moved | the ports to the other side of the camera, so if you flick the | LCD round so you can see it, the cables are in the way... | kuschku wrote: | With my a6300 I actually managed to get a week (!) of | constant streaming and USB charging out of it. I use a USB | data blocker to enforce USB charging only, it works | incredibly well. | moduspol wrote: | I just failed at this recently. Apparently the camera needs to | support "clean HDMI out," which many don't. Mine (for example) | has HDMI out, but it's for like a "preview" screen for a | photographer--it doesn't just output a clean, high-res HDMI | stream. | | There's a web page on Canon's site here: | | https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/se... | | You'll see one list of cameras on there, but at the bottom, you | can expand "Clean HDMI", and then you'll see a different list | of cameras. | | Now I'm debating whether or not I want to spend hundreds of | dollars for a DIFFERENT photography camera that support clean | HDMI. | ldayley wrote: | Yes, that is a gotcha, as some of the cheaper or older camera | models have no HDMI out or the require proprietary conversion | with a vendor driver. I haven't run into this often myself | yet since most people I know have been buying newer and more | video focused cameras over the past couple years. | | EDIT - For your case perhaps using camera settings to | minimize the data (ISO/aperture/shutter etc) being shown on | on the screen works well enough to use what you have? | moduspol wrote: | > EDIT - For your case perhaps using camera settings to | minimize the data (ISO/aperture/shutter etc) being shown on | on the screen works well enough to use what you have? | | I saw a few threads with that suggestion, but I wasn't able | to minimize the data being shown, or confirmation that | anyone with a Rebel T7 was able to do it. | enzanki_ars wrote: | I was able to do this on my Rebel T7i by switching to | manual focus, and then selecting the "info" button a | couple of times to remove the overlay. There might have | been some other changes I made, like turning off the grid | overlay, but I think just the first two changes were | enough though. | delinom wrote: | Custom software, such as Magic Lantern[1] for Canon cameras, | can offer clean HDMI out for certain models, among other | features. | | [1] https://magiclantern.fm/ | moduspol wrote: | It can, though it doesn't seem to support my Rebel T7 | either. | ISL wrote: | For a T7, one can simply use Canon's webcam software. | moduspol wrote: | Kind of, yeah [1]. | | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31413073 | | EDIT: I mean it'd probably be OK if I were just shooting | a video--I can fumble through it connecting unreliably, | or just do another take if it unexpectedly disconnects. | But I'm doing multiple video calls a day, and the webcam | built-in to my monitor "just works" every time. It's | tough to justify the additional complexity for something | that isn't working reliably. | | That's why I started leaning toward "Clean HDMI". With | that method, as long as the HDMI capture device works, | everything should "just work" on the Mac side, and as | long as the camera can output clean HDMI, it should also | "just work." I'm not dealing with a poorly-supported | software webcam utility, special USB signaling, or | annoying inactivity timeouts. | | But it looks like I'll need a different camera, and it | won't be cheap, but at least it's an option. | mikepurvis wrote: | This is the gap I hit, after trying to set up an old Canon | G11 (released 2009) as an alternative to a webcam for my | partner's Twitch streaming. It has a micro-HDMI port on the | side of it, but _only_ for reviewing photos-- it doesn 't | pass through the live viewfinder image, and it appears there | may be hardware limitations which prevent that from ever | being possible, even with the various hacked up firmware | options like CHDK/Magic Lantern [1]. | | [1]: https://chdk.fandom.com/wiki/G11 | inbx0 wrote: | It's not ideal but I've circumvented this by disabling | automatic focus and other things that add visible elements to | the preview, and the just using the preview's 720p output. | It's a hassle and you'll have to manually adjust the focus so | that everything's not blurry, but the end result quality is | quite good. | moduspol wrote: | Are you doing it on a Rebel T7 or a different camera? I | tried doing this on mine but it didn't seem possible. | formerly_proven wrote: | > You can find these for $40-$100 and it allows one to switch | out hardware brands at will without installing drivers. | | The cheap ones (as little as eight bucks) all use the same all- | in-one HDMI-receiver-MJPEG-encoding-USB-device chip; it's not | perfect, but they do actually support 1080p at 30 fps. | tomatocracy wrote: | They're generally pretty reliable but an issue to be aware of | is that the cheaper ones can have quite high latency (0.5s or | more). This means for Zoom etc you will have to choose | between audio/video being desynced and more awkward | conversation (if interactive discussion is more important | than presenting). | em-bee wrote: | is the quality at least comparable to what i can get from a | mid-range webcam? because that is what this is competing with | for someone like me who already has the necessary camera, but | also needs a webcam occasionally. | | i found this article | https://havecamerawilltravel.com/nikon-d3400-webcam-live- | str... that suggests the budget device is workable but | obviously doesn't deliver the quality that the camera can | provide. but how does it compare to a regular webcam? | awoodbeck wrote: | Some camera manufacturers offer software that uses your | mirrorless camera to emulate a webcam without requiring a capture | card. | | For example, Fujifilm's X Webcam software[1] would allow the | author to connect his X-S10 to his PC using a USB-C cable, and | use it as a webcam. The downside is X Webcam lacks support for | Linux. | | [1] https://fujifilm-x.com/global/products/software/x-webcam/ | Tomte wrote: | And my X-E3 is not supported, but the practically identical | X-T2 is! | [deleted] | jd3 wrote: | It looks like Nikon supports this functionality[0] through | their "Nikon Webcam Utility"[1]. | | Z 9, Z 7II, Z 7, Z 6II, Z 6, Z 5, Z fc, Z 50, D6, D5, D850, | D810, D780, D750, D500, D7500, D7200, D5600, D5500, D5300 and | D3500. | | I think the Z 50 (and updated, but cheaper construction Z fc) | are the cheapest options here out of the mirrorless cameras. | | [0]: https://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/webcam- | utility... | | [1]: | https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/548/Webca... | KineticLensman wrote: | I used this for a while with my D850. It installed okay and | worked, technically. I stopped using it for video calls | because it was a hassle positioning the relatively heavy DSLR | on my desk during calls and because it eats cam batteries for | breakfast (you need a power lead that that slots into the | battery location on the camera, which I don't own). | | The (free) version of the webcam utility doesn't give you | full tethered photographic control of the camera, which might | have made it more useful to me. | jamesfisher wrote: | I love it. Where is the startup to fill this gap in the market? | dawnerd wrote: | I use a Sony a6400 with one of those powered "battery" adapters | and hdmi out to an Elgato Cam Link 4k. | | Works nearly flawlessly. Sometimes Google meet refuses to pick up | the video until I unplug but that might have to do more with the | handshake between my back and my TB3 dock. | EveYoung wrote: | Early into the pandemic, I was experimenting with an Elgato Cam | Link as an alternative to a webcam. However, I never got the | setup to work reliably with MacOS and MS Teams (e.g., random | disconnects). Has this changed over the years and become a good | solution suitable for daily usage? Currently, I'm using a | Logitech Brio with two video lights; the quality isn't amazing | but at least everything works out of the box. | briandoll wrote: | I have the Elgato FaceCam and it's absolutely fantastic on the | Mac. Zero issues, great adjustability, good quality (much | better than a laptop webcam, not quite as good as an | iPhone/"real" camera. | ozten wrote: | +1 I wish I could make the Elgato Cam Link 4k more reliable. | Some days it is flawless and then other days during an | important meeting, I have to keep resetting the USB dongle. | | I have a setup much like the article, Sony A5100. | lumost wrote: | Why can't laptops just get smartphone cameras? Is the BOM impact | of a phone camera from 2018 really that high? | randyrand wrote: | not the bom, it's the screen thickness. | | Most laptops screens are much thinner than a smartphone. | | That said, i'd gladly have a little camera bump. | lumost wrote: | Aye - it would probably need to be ruggedized, but a camera | pod wouldn't be the end of the world. | [deleted] | npteljes wrote: | Because the sauce is not in the camera, but in the software. I | recommend the following article, if not even for reading, just | to appreciate how much processing magic is going on: | https://vas3k.com/blog/computational_photography/ | outworlder wrote: | That can't be... the full picture. | | Laptops have a decent amount of compute power available. | | If you look at laptop webcams, they are much smaller(and | thinner) and have way crappier optics than an iphone camera. | And nowhere near the same amount of optics. | | Look at this ancient iPhone 6 exploded camera view. Does it | look like it's even close to laptop webcams? Let's not even | go into the "huge" (in smartphone terms) lenses modern phones | have. | | https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp- | content/uploads/2016/08/iPhone-2... | lumost wrote: | In that case, my laptop has substantially more computational | power than my phone - why can't it run the same software? | RationPhantoms wrote: | I use this webcam and I'm pretty happy with the quality: | https://getlumina.com/ | kmike84 wrote: | Not sure about the autofocus advice; I'm pretty happy with manual | focus. It requires static camera placement, and fixed distance to | the person, but isn't this happening anyways? Are people really | walking around the room or moving camera between calls? | | Manual means there are less failure modes - slow autofocus, | autofocus trying to refocus, focusing on a wrong thing, etc. | | It also means the hardware can be cheaper - camera doesn't need | to have good autofocus (some old DSLR is fine), you can also use | manual lenses. | saturn5k wrote: | Maybe it's a bit overkill, but I use a Fuji X-T4 + Fuji 10-24mm | lens as a webcam. At around $2500 definitely not cheap but it | gets the job done magnificently. Additionally, the Fuji X Webcam | software allows me to switch between Fuji's film simulations, | adjust color temperature and exposure on the fly. The cam is | mounted on a Manfrotto ballhead tripod behind my monitor. | hammock wrote: | What is the distance from you to the camera as you have it set | up? Any issue with your monitors, etc coming into frame as | well? | kirse wrote: | How do you deal with the 60-min video shutoff during important | mtgs, streaming, etc? | deanc wrote: | Does using a professional camera (DSLR/Mirrorless) damage the | sensor over time and lower the lifetime of your camera? Usually | shutter count is a good indicator of health of a used camera - | would this not have a similarly huge impact? | JamesMcMinn wrote: | I don't think there's any risk of damaging the sensor. The | shutter is a mechanical part that will physically wear out over | time, the sensor is converting photons into voltage. | | I've been using my camera as a webcam for over 2 years without | any issue, and it's usually on for several hours per day. As | long as the sensor isn't getting very hot then I don't think | there's much risk to the camera. | tamade wrote: | I repurposed my old Fujifilm X100F as webcam with the Elgato cam | link 4k and dummy battery during the pandemic-- video quality | received heavy compliments on Zoom. The setup was working fine | until I upgraded my desktop rig. Seems Cam link doesn't play nice | with the new Mac Studios. | aenis wrote: | Did this out of boredom (and inability to use my photo equipment | as intended in the travel restriction years). My setup was a | Nikon Z6II with a 50mm f/1.8 glass, plugged via a capture card. | It can do a 10hr meeting marathon without overheating while | charging via the usb-c. Never crashed but surely a bit of a | hassle and costs me a usb c port, since its not reliable when | plugged to the dock (go figure). | | Agree with the others, it makes no difference. The only people | likely to notice are other geeks. I look like a freshly excavated | potato when shot with the webcam, and a slightly more favourably | lit potato with the Z6Ii, good glass and diffused lighting. | | But hey, people have stupid hobbies, thats ok as long as it | reliably works. | callumprentice wrote: | The quality aspect is obviously important but I'd suggest that | the location of the lens is also vital if you don't want to have | meetings where everyone seems to be not looking at you. | | I cannot wait until cameras work behind the screen and can be | positioned right in the center but for now, the only option I | found was something called Center Cam that mounts a small lense | on a skinny support that can be positioned over the screen, | _somewhat_ unobtrusively. | | I am a Camo user too and it's incredible but having the phone off | to one side in a tripod or mount exacerbates the "here's (not) | looking at you" issue. | | I started a project that uses Camo and suspends the phone upside | down from the top of the screen via a 3D printed mount. Then, an | app on the phone, mirrors the portion of the screen that is | covered by the phone. Not perfect (or even close) and it means | you need to use the lower quality front facing camera but it fun | to dabble. | jimhefferon wrote: | I appreciate the cleverness of your approach. But is it | possible to take a C290-ish webcam, chop off the left and | right, and maybe the top and bottom, until it is the width of a | dime, so I can suspend it in the middle of my screen? Unlike | the thread's original post, I am not overly concerned with | image quality, but the "not looking" effect that you mention is | an issue for me. | callumprentice wrote: | Yeah - that's what Center Cam does I think. You might be able | to make both the lens and the support _really_ small and /or | transparent these days too. | jimhefferon wrote: | Cool. Thanks, somehow I didn't understand that it is a | product instead of an idea. (I have a microphone and can | put it off camera. The quality of the picture is not | critical for my application, and my personal eye does not | find it a bother. I just want to look at the screen.) | ekrebs wrote: | That's a super neat idea! I have a feeling the inevitable | solution to this need will be a combo of a tech like Apple's | Center Stage and some sort of eye-focusing alteration to the | image, like a live deep fake of yourself (just the eyes). | Software-only means widespread adoption. | callumprentice wrote: | Yeah, agreed - I had wondered if 4 lenses at the screen | corners (maybe) plus some clever software could maybe do the | trick too. | zwily wrote: | FaceTime actually did the eye adjustment thing for a bit, but | they disabled it. Not sure why, it seemed to work okay. Maybe | it freaked people out though. | interestica wrote: | Whoa really?? The future is probably a 'digital self' being | transmitted + movements rather than actual video. | gernb wrote: | As someone that puts a cover on their camera since I am in | various states of compromise in front of it I'm not looking | forward to a camera I can not cover. | protomyth wrote: | Most cameras have a lens cover. Also, if you hook it to a | device to hook to your computer, you can turn it off. | callumprentice wrote: | Oh good point - I hadn't thought about that and of course, no | one will trust it's off via software. I should imagine that's | a blocker for many people. | ricopags wrote: | I imagine a hardware switch on the back of the monitor would | still be possible [and, indeed, necessary] | kuschku wrote: | Why don't you just use a teleprompter setup? That's so much | simpler | tra3 wrote: | That's another device (and cost) to absorb. And not a small | device at that.. I like the idea of the centre for 2-4 hours | of meetings, then I just put it away. | callumprentice wrote: | I wasn't aware of such a thing until I came across the parent | thread - something to look into for sure | kuschku wrote: | It's really just a piece of glass and some black fabric to | keep the light out, very inexpensive and super useful | compared to all the engineering solutions suggested here^^ | __mharrison__ wrote: | This is why I use a teleprompter... See my other comment for | links to my setup. | [deleted] | ulnarkressty wrote: | Keep in mind that if you're going to be using a fast lens as the | author suggests the focus depth will be paper-thin at large | apertures. So you're probably not going to get that creamy bokeh | in your standup unless you stand perfectly still and move only | your mouth muscles. | | You can really see this effect when the early mirrorless DSLRs | took to market and every youtuber was using one with a fast wide | open normal lens. Everything was zoomed in and out of focus | resulting in queasy viewers. It took a couple of years for them | to get the hang of it though. | pmoriarty wrote: | If you're willing to throw $1000 at a "proper camera" of the sort | the author recommends, then sure, it would be very disappointing | if it didn't outperform the webcam built in to most laptops or | phones. | | But is there a "proper camera" for under $100 that can also offer | an improvement over a webcam? | orbital-decay wrote: | The key to the better quality is not camera, it's light. | | A dedicated camera with a fast lens has three key improvements | over a typical webcam: | | - bokeh | | - less noise in the dark, better dynamic range (almost | irrelevant for a webcam) | | - less compressed video (potentially), which is critical for | chroma keying; certain USB3 webcams can deliver a much less | compressed stream as well. | | If you're willing to sacrifice bokeh and don't need chroma | keying, $100 or slightly more can buy you light sources to make | you look substantially better on your under $100 webcam. And | without proper lighting, the proper camera is useless as well. | | Some other steps to look good on a webcam: choose a good | lighting scheme, use proper camera settings, do some color | correction; a color calibration card helps with this immensely, | even a cheap one. Use the virtual webcam in OBS with a LUT | generated from your card, control your scene with a vectorscope | plugin. Voila, you just upgraded your look to a 100x more | professional one, using just a simple webcam. | | Keep in mind that you need much (and by this I mean _MUCH_ ) | more lighting than you probably think you do. And possibly | blackout shutters or curtains to completely block the outside | light, making your lighting controlled. | MR4D wrote: | I'll second this. My recommended order is: | | 1 - Lighting | | 2 - Microphone | | 3 - Camera | | Even when you see people on the news through webcams, their | pictures and audio often are not well lit or mic'd. | adhoc_slime wrote: | > But is there a "proper camera" for under $100 that can also | offer an improvement over a webcam? | | no just buy an off the shelf web camera if that's all you're | willing to budget. | | but for those of us with these cameras already becuase we enjoy | photography, this dual use is quite nice! | tobyhinloopen wrote: | Not for $100, but a Sony A5100 with 16-50 lens can be bought | for $400 over here, and will produce a great image. It is very | similar to the A6000 but it a bit more compact, less features | and a cheaper build. | ldayley wrote: | Not quite $100 but I see the aging yet highly-regarded, video- | centric Panasonic GH4 sold used for as little as $200 without a | lens. This is the camera many small-midsize video production | outfits have stuck to for a >decade. There are many (often | fairly good) generic lenses for the 4/3" sensor mount it uses, | and the camera is known for having a clean Full HD HDMI out. I | can see building a setup like this for as little as $300-400. | Add a $40-$100 LED light mounted on the camera and you've | improved your video presence by 10x for less than $500. | | *Edited for grammar. | Kerrick wrote: | At that budget you'd be better served getting a cheap lighting | kit and a small to help push your webcam to its limits. Mount | the webcam at eye level, pick a classic portrait lighting | setup, and make every pixel work for you. | | https://medium.com/@sukeshgtambi/24-portrait-character-light... | hammock wrote: | No. It comes down to sensor size and that doesn't come cheap | HidyBush wrote: | Canon's EOS Webcam Utility supports cameras down to the EOS | 1100D, which, depending on your level of luck, you can find | used under $100. Then all you need is a kit lens which can be | found for very very cheap nowadays. Or, if you really think you | won't be moving much, just get a super cheap vintage one. | moduspol wrote: | Eh, I've had mixed results with Canon's EOS Webcam Utility | and my Rebel T7. | | I didn't see this documented anywhere, but apparently it's | built only for Intel-based Macs. It'll still work on Apple | Silicon, but only if the application using it is _also_ built | for Intel-based Macs. So you 'd want to ensure you install | the Intel-based version of Zoom, and then be careful to avoid | it auto-updating to the version for Apple Silicon. | | I bought a license for Cascable's Pro Webcam, and it mostly | worked, but I'd often have issues getting it to initially | connect to the camera and it'd sometimes cut out | unexpectedly. | aeyes wrote: | It's under 10fps for most of the cheap models. And unless you | don't move at all the focal point of the kit lens is going to | make the video almost useless. Autofocus on these cameras | can't follow as fast as necessary for live video. | | I have played with EOS webcam utility in the past and if you | are not ready to spend big, DSLR is not the way to go. | ClumsyPilot wrote: | $100 can get you an excellent microphone with a boom arm and | that will be appreciated by your colleagues much more than | being able to count your stubble in 4K 60 fps. | | I actually don't want colleagues to be able to inspect my face | in immaculate detail, and the amount of ceremony and awkward | stands begind the monitor, etc. do not make sence to me. The | more expensive webcams do a decent enough job. | npteljes wrote: | I agree. And you don't even need to spend much - I picked up | a Fifine K669B usb mic for $25, and the thing records | absolutely fine. | ISL wrote: | No boom needed for a big improvement -- the Blue Yeti Nano | sits nicely on my desk, gets the job done. | ClumsyPilot wrote: | I think its nice, I find a big mic on the desk gets in the | way | lars_francke wrote: | I'd like to have a solution where chroma keying is done in | hardware and ideally also something where I can combine my | monitor picture and my camera to do "talking head" videos without | software running on my main laptop. It should "just" receive the | final picture ready to be streamed to Zoom et. al. | | I'm probably not explaining very well. In the end I want to rely | on OS & Software as little as possible because things keep | breaking (on Linux) for me so if I can just get a single video | feed to select as the camera source for Zoom, Teams et. al that'd | be great. | securitypunk wrote: | Sony a7iii + Elgato camlink have been working flawlessly for me | for several years now, on all platforms (windows, linux and even | chromeos) | Graffur wrote: | Unfortunately I can't use my Sony A6000 or GoPro as webcams | because they need software installed and it's blocked on my work | laptop | almog wrote: | If you are going that route (I have), keep in mind that streaming | from your mirrorless/DSLR HDMI port usually means h.264 live | encoding, which might not work smoothly with older machine, there | are very few HDMI to USB capture cards that perform the encoding. | | Since I'm still mostly using my old Macbook (late 2014) and a | Sony A7II + (Sony FE 55mm f/1.8), I soon realized that with a | basic USB capture device (a UVC device that exposes an | uncompressed video as webcam) I couldn't get anywhere past 360p | with 24fps, and even then, CPU was skyrocketing. | | Next I tried to utilize an Raspberry Pi that I have to stream the | video, but using VLC as well as FFMpeg and few other streaming | products, all did not do well when it came to resolution, fps and | latency. | | At the same time, I researched some existing USB capture devices, | and while Elgato seems like the popular choice, non of their USB | capture devices perform hardware h.264 encoding, so the | bottleneck remains the host machine. | | The only two hardware brands that I found at the time (around a | year ago) that made USB capture devices with on-board h.264 | encoders were Blackmagic and Magewell. | | I went with the Magewell USB Capture Gen 2 which seemed to do | exactly what I wanted and no more than that. I was able to find | for ~$80 and it has worked perfectly since -- no latency or | missing frames at 1080p. It also has a very nice management | console that let you tweak the (hardware) encoding | (enable/disable mirror mode, crop frame and more). | | EDIT: another thing that I tried was to use Sony Imaging Edge | Webcam -- a USB driver that turn Sony cameras into UVC (webcam) | device. It works pretty well but has a max resolution of 1024 x | 576. Not what I was looking for but still I remember it as being | equal or even better than combining a cheap HDMI to USB devices | that don't do hardware encoding with OBS for virtual camera. | manmal wrote: | The Magewell capture card costs almost 300 bucks, finding it | for 80 is quite lucky I'd say. I've just seen it for EUR260 in | used condition where I live. | almog wrote: | I found it just after many of the covid restriction were | lifted, which resulted in businesses, schools and even | churches getting rid of streaming gear on ebay. I'm not sure | if it's still the case, but I found quite a few at that were | sold around that price (I just checked my ebay account and it | was $75). | | Just checked and the price for new one where I live (Tel | Aviv) is around $450, so I guess I was lucky, at least in | that sense. | | Still, I do not know of any cheaper option to get 1080p video | with older machines. I'm assuming that OBS on a 2022 Macbook | would be able to deal with live encoding, but back in 2021 I | was still seeing posts on OBS forums detailing streaming | issues with M1 macs, and since most of them describe issues | with streaming on Twitch, I could only assume it must be for | video conferencing. | dekhn wrote: | I have an alternative approach that I discovered recently while | building a microscope with a webcam driven by linux. | | Nearly all modern cheap webcams are UVC-compatible and they work | with linux. Different models expose different functionalities, | but I ended up with this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R489K8L | | It does 1600x1200 25FPS YUYV (as well as a wide range of other | resolutions and FPS) uses the C/CS-mount lens standard (easy to | buy a wide range of high quality lenses). It doesn't have a | microphone but you should be using an independent mike anyway. | Has software control of exposure color temp, and gain, which is | great for various lighting conditions. | | You read the data through USB, not HDMI. The one thing I haven't | managed to do is autofocus, but imho, for webcams you want to set | a fixed focus around your head anyway. | | Works with all video conference programs, and OBS studio (I | actually import the video in OBS and then create a virtual | camera). | thinkmassive wrote: | I have a very similar hardware setup and love it. What benefits | does OBS provide for your video conferencing? If it's worth the | extra hassle I might need to look into adding it. | dekhn wrote: | I use it for the chroma keying in VC software that doesn't | support it, like Meet (which has a machine learning system | that tries to identify the background). I often present other | windows and using OBS is often more ergonomic than connecting | and presenting a second window; I can composite a transparent | version of my head over what i'm presenting. Or present my | whole screen, etc. Basically, twitch streaming for video | games and other stuff changed how I do VC. | pwg wrote: | > I have an alternative approach that I discovered recently | while building a microscope with a webcam driven by linux. | | Do you have a web page somewhere describing your linux webcam | microscope? | dekhn wrote: | Not really. It's unclear if the time invested in documenting | the design is worth it yet. I haven't decided if it would be | useful. For now, I recommend looking at OpenFlexure or | Flexiscope (there's one other one that's good but I forget | the name). | | The idea is fairly simple. It's a basic construction kit for | simple microscopes (just LED, lens, objective, tube, and | camera, all mounted to an aluminum extrusion post using 3D | printed parts). Then some inexpensive XYZ stages to move the | sample holder holder around for large FOV and focus stacking. | | Everything else is just cobbled-together from python, but see | MicroManager for a tool that can drive an open source | microscope. | htgb wrote: | I looked at similar cameras a while ago (Mokose brand), but | never got around to it because I was unsure of the lens. | Especially field of view (is it wide enough angle?), but also | overall quality. I saw a sample somewhere with a dark ring | along the edges of the final image. | | Did you have any issues with that? Do you have a rough | approximation of what zoom setting you're using and what FOV it | gives? | | I'd love to get a better camera than the built-in laptop one, | but also don't want to shell out $1500 plus the hassle of a | DSLR... | dekhn wrote: | I didn't have good luck with the included lens for web | camming. It's a zoom lens with focus and aperture, which is | silly for most video conferencing. | | Alternative C- and CS-mount lenses are easy to buy | https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Aperture-Compatible- | Mirrorless... and will focus near your face and have plenty | of light. People will say your background blur is amazing. | thinkmassive wrote: | I use a Mokose 4k USB webcam with a 5-50mm zoom lens that | cost under $100 for the set. | | I experimented with a huge variety of mounting options before | settling on a SmallRig adjustable arm clamped to the top of | my monitor mount, so it peeks over the top of my monitor, | basically where a built-in webcam would be. | | To me it's the best compromise between control, quality, and | price. Having physical control of zoom, focus, and exposure | is amazing. Meetings start up instantly, no software to mess | with. | | To be fair I spent another $150ish trying various mounting | options, but those are shared between the camera, mic (Rode | NT-USB), and lighting. Eventually I gave up on the camera | light and fixed my room lighting. A more frugal person could | get a similar setup for $250 all in. | actually_a_dog wrote: | This looks like it should compare favorably to the "real" | camera + HDMI capture card solution. The lens is always the | most important part of any camera setup, so if you get the | right lens, you're probably gold. | eropple wrote: | Ehh. After a certain point that's true, but a lens doesn't | help much with a garbage sensor, particularly one that has to | be compensated for with huge exposure changes. (This is the | core of why webcams are disappointing, not the lens.) | | I use a GH4 or G9 with a USB3HDCAP at my desk because I | already have them and the glass, personally, and I know the | sensor is not going to be a trailing problem behind the | (cheap!) glass that I use. | dekhn wrote: | The sensor is an IMX179 which is a mainstay. I believe the | sensor area is smaller, and probably higher noise than a | DSLR or mirrorless, but for VC use, it's probably not going | to make a difference. | dekhn wrote: | In my case, the "lens" is a microscope objective and a long | tube, but I've also tested it as a webcam. | | Arducam has a bunch of C-mount lenses, https://www.amazon.com | /stores/page/35052708-55DC-4832-A0B6-A... as well as nice USB | webcams that let you choose from several sensors. | https://www.arducam.com/sony/imx477/ | nunez wrote: | Agreed. Using an SLR with a capture card and proper three-point | lighting makes you look amazing in online meetings. Very easy to | set up as well. Will cost about $700 to get going with, but it's | a one-time cost that will work on any computer for a long time. | | Not every camera has clean HDMI output, though. It's hard to find | a single list of cameras that have this feature, so you have to | Google around. Cameras without clean HDMI out will show icons and | focus windows when you stream from them. | themacguffinman wrote: | Elgato maintains a camera compatibility list for their Cam Link | product, it notes which cameras have clean HDMI: | https://www.elgato.com/en/cam-link/camera-check | supermatt wrote: | Having done exactly this, my main annoyance is that you have to | manually power on and off the camera, which means losing whatever | zoom and settings you had configured. | formerly_proven wrote: | There are proper cameras which don't remember settings across | power cycles and battery swaps? Curious. Never heard of that | before, that's a complete deal-breaker for actually, y'know', | using a camera to me. Perhaps the SRAM battery/capacitor in | yours is just dead? (Then again, not exactly sure how that | happens, I've used 15+ year old Nikon DSLRs and they had no | trouble with Alzheimers) | vladvasiliu wrote: | Some newer compact zooms aren't manual, but zoom by wire. | They usually retract when the camera is turned off. This is | also the case for most compact cameras, which maybe the GP is | talking about, because technically they're also "proper" | cameras". | kuschku wrote: | This is actually an issue I've got with the a6300 and the | Sony 18-105mm f/4.0 G lens, because it's a zoom-by-wire lens | and forgets the zoom setting after every restart. | boomskats wrote: | This is the main reason I own a Sony ZV-1: it supports UVC out of | the box. | | With a use case as repetitive as jumping on a call, the UX is | important. | chrisseaton wrote: | My problem is when you turn it on plugged in it defaults to USB | mass storage. I have to turn mine on and then plug it in. What | do you do? | chrisseaton wrote: | Answering myself - turn on PC Remote mode, which disables | mass storage. | Linda703 wrote: | giobox wrote: | For me, I look for the opposite solution. What is the poorest | quality camera my colleagues in meetings will passably accept? I | want as few pixels of my sleepy head in morning meetings being | beamed to my colleagues as I can get away with, which for now the | crappy MacBook integrated webcam does a reasonable job for. | | I second others here in that having a good quality mic is | generally far more important. High quality doesn't mean spendy | either - the location of the mic is just as critical as the mic | you choose, many cheap headset mics sound pretty good because | they get to place the mic directly in front of your mouth, not | because they are especially great mics. | | I fully appreciate my opinion might be different if I worked in a | field where being seen clearly mattered, such as guitar teacher | in online lessons etc, but I imagine for most of us here this | isn't the case. | extinctpotato wrote: | Could somebody do an ELI5 on why some phones have very good | cameras but for some reason there's no standalone USB version of | them? | alphabettsy wrote: | Phone cameras are very good but owing much of it to the DSP and | software. An iPhone camera will not produce iPhone quality | photos without the chipset and OS. | aendruk wrote: | That still leaves the original question of why dedicated | cameras aren't doing this. | formerly_proven wrote: | The question of GP wasn't that, but why you can't buy | "iPhone image processing pipeline to UVC/USB". | aendruk wrote: | I think we agree but you don't understand me. | dekhn wrote: | there are cameras that do this; there are many UVC USB3 | webcams with phone-grade sensors (medium quality). | aendruk wrote: | "This" refers to the contribution of software processing | described above, i.e. explicitly not the matter of sensor | quality. | dekhn wrote: | oh, that's for economic reasons. The industrial and | desktop consumer computer vision markets are orders of | magnitude smaller and their development cycle times | orders of magnitude longer. | | I looked into this a while ago- trying to use gcam | technology for scientific imaging- when I worked at | Google, and there was zero interest from those teams. | They were 100% focused on next-gen camera tech (and it | showed- that was the period when phones got unbelievably | good at taking high quality images using computational | photography). | E4YomzYIN5YEBKe wrote: | That appears to be what the Opal C1 is doing. | | https://opalcamera.com/ | JoshTriplett wrote: | That looks great, except for being mac-only. | | Have they given any indication about whether it'll be a | standard UVC camera and Just Work on all platforms? | nickpeterson wrote: | Also it isn't available to actually buy. I'm sure they'll | be ready just in time for pandemic to end and macbooks to | have better webcams... | johnwalkr wrote: | Phones have just an image sensor with a direct interface to the | CPU, with a driver plus a ton of software running on the CPU to | enhance quality. You can get good cameras with modern image | sensors with usb interface. Note that they need a local | controller to well, control them and provide a usb interface, | and need firmware for the local controller and need to provide | a driver or support for a standard API at the USB end. The | market is tiny compared to phones, so for those reasons you | can't buy a usb camera with the same low cost and high | performance as what is in your smartphone. | | That being said, you can buy good usb cameras based on many | modern image sensors from a company like e-con[1], but you have | to do research about what features are enabled by the driver. | | I'm not sure why actual webcams including a way to mount on | your monitor are so far behind and expensive. Logitech C920 is | still a common recommendation, and it's now 10 years old! | | [1]https://www.e-consystems.com/See3CAM-USB-3-Camera.asp | inetsee wrote: | I can't justify the kind of prices being discussed here because | the only use I have for a camera setup like this is Family Zoom | meetings. I went looking on Amazon and I stumbled on "Vlogging | Cameras". There seem to be quite a few of them available for less | than $200, with 4K sensors, and either attached microphones, or | an input for an external microphone. I have no idea of the | quality of the image being produced by these cameras, but they | seem like they could be a low cost option, and better than the | typical webcams available. | ascagnel_ wrote: | The more appealing approach is to use a camera you already own | rather than a C920 -- anything made within the last decade or | so will probably work better, given the C920's awful white | balance and autofocus. | [deleted] | onphonenow wrote: | Top tips. | | Wear a headset for a microphone. Avoid the echo cancellation step | on each other effect. | | If you can't be bothered to do that at least put earbuds in. | goshx wrote: | I use a Sony a6600 with Sigma 16mm f/1.4 lens as a webcam and | people love it. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-05-17 23:00 UTC)