[HN Gopher] GoodWill ransomware forces victims to donate to the ... ___________________________________________________________________ GoodWill ransomware forces victims to donate to the poor Author : rdpintqogeogsaa Score : 445 points Date : 2022-05-27 08:55 UTC (14 hours ago) (HTM) web link (cloudsek.com) (TXT) w3m dump (cloudsek.com) | longtimegoogler wrote: | Robin hood. | calebm wrote: | Yes, this is obviously what it should have been called. | jhgb wrote: | That would _also_ be stealing a product name from the rich | (Robinhood Markets) and giving it to the poor. | mlindner wrote: | This thing was written by someone who doesn't live in a developed | country... There's no way to do those actions in a developed | country. Does this person think that just random children are | available to be given food to? | NoGravitas wrote: | At my youngest child's elementary school, I could pick random | kids to give food to and have an 80% chance of them being | disadvantaged and/or food insecure. The only tricky part would | be contacting their parents to get permission and/or get the | parents to come along, and that would be manageable. | | Arguably I don't live in a developed country, but it's a US | state... | mlindner wrote: | As a fellow parent of children in your school that's possible | for you yes in your specific situation, but it's not possible | for most people. However even then I doubt you could grab a | bunch of the children and take them out for food without | negotiating with their parents first. | nemo44x wrote: | Seriously. If I went up to a group of kids and offered to take | them to pizza hut I think I'd probably be arrested. | Aleksdev wrote: | Yeah, that's going to be a hard one to explain... | cuteboy19 wrote: | The English is non idiomatic. Mistakes make it seem middle | eastern/central asian | topaz0 wrote: | The article claims the writers are Indian. | cuteboy19 wrote: | Strange. We never write "in Facebook". It's always "on | Facebook" in most Indian languages. Though it's possible it | was just a mistake. | notsureaboutpg wrote: | brbrodude wrote: | Do you mean US? | mlindner wrote: | I don't understand your question. This doesn't work in the US | either. | iepathos wrote: | People generally accept free stuff. Kids aren't some exception | to this. You can accomplish this in any developed country with | minor effort imo. Have any kids even distantly in your family? | Kids know other kids so ask them to invite friends. "less | fortunate" is a very broad descriptor for the children you need | to feed, especially if you're fortunate. | seoaeu wrote: | Depending on the context you could probably give away pizzas | pretty easily/innocently. Walking up to some children you do | not know and offering to take them to a secondary location in | return for free food... would come across very differently | chasd00 wrote: | > Walking up to some children you do not know and offering | to take them to a secondary location | | heh yeah and some kids are very well trained to defend | themselves. An offer like that to a larger than average | pre-teen or teen may result in way more than you bargained | for. If they see you as a threat and the flight/fight coin | toss lands on fight, well, you're in for a ride. | iepathos wrote: | Hey want to go get some free food at this public and safe | place you've been before with all your friends for backup? | Checks out ok. | barneygale wrote: | Welcome to HN, where suburban America is the only developed | country. | mlindner wrote: | This is true in any developed country. | guerrilla wrote: | I think your comment says a lot more about you and your | knowledge of the world than them. | dark-star wrote: | exactly. People who need money at the hospital to get treated? | Oviously targeted at Americans and other 3rd world countries | mlindner wrote: | It doesn't work for America lol... I'm in America. | decebalus1 wrote: | I don't understand your point. Do you think poverty is | something far away in 3rd world countries only? Your point is | probably moot in countries with strong social welfare systems, | but the USA for example has 16% of its children living in | poverty. I live in a VERY well-off area in the USA, yet one of | the local food banks I'm somewhat connected is frequented by a | lot of families with children. Non-perishable food + kids | clothing + school supplies are one of the most sought-after | donation items. | [deleted] | alfiedotwtf wrote: | "I want peace on earth and Good Will toward man" | | -- Whistler | browningstreet wrote: | I've wanted to do a micropayment/paywall system where all the | money went to select non-profit options.. paywalls, but not for | the host. Paywalls for the world (hunger, climate, etc). Could | possibly even have a crypto funnel. | kosyblysk666 wrote: | everyone so fucking noble these days...even a hacker is mr.right | | lololol | WaxedChewbacca wrote: | wellthisisgreat wrote: | I was thinking it's somehow related to Goodwill Stores, the brand | TameAntelope wrote: | Is the use of ngrok here a common pattern? First I've seen ngrok | used this way, but I don't super follow methodologies/tactics. | boomboomsubban wrote: | Has anyone actually completed the three demands and gotten their | data back? As the requests are so bizarre and I'm so cynical it | seems more likely they just want you to do silly things after | destroying your data. | kleene_op wrote: | If word gets out that fullfilling those requests does not get | your data back, no one would do it after the first attempt. | | For a no profit hack, honoring the promises would lead to | funnier/more interesting situations. | daniel-cussen wrote: | Wouldn't an anti-ransomware group then hack some people, take | their money, but not return the data, thereby undermining | their real enemy, the ransomware groups? | dqpb wrote: | Isn't this more-or-less how Chinas social credit score works? | [deleted] | notum wrote: | Would helping them with their grammar count as an activity point? | netsharc wrote: | Hah, Black Mirror-esque. | | But well, hopefully it has a IP filter to not hit countries with | universal healthcare. /s | | And asking stranger kids "Hey kids, want some KFC?"... that | should go well. "The hacker 4chan made me do it!" | can16358p wrote: | Black Mirror meets Mr. Robot. | | An interesting reality nevertheless. | larodi wrote: | or script kiddie meets open-source? or the dark side of open- | source perhaps? | | Mr.Robot is incredible show, Sam Esmail, Rami Malek and | Christian Slater potentially created the top series of the | decade, but this is not the reality. | can16358p wrote: | Agreed with Mr. Robot part 100%. | | About whoever is behind this ransomware, of course this is | nothing "fsociety-level" though the general intentions | (hacking powerful ones and changing of powers) gave me a | similar vibe. | psyc wrote: | With a dash of fight club. It reminds me of the scene where | Tyler puts a gun to Raymond's head and makes him go back to | college. | sacrosancty wrote: | Even in countries with universal healthcare, people regularly | can't afford treatment because expensive treatments aren't | included. | NoGravitas wrote: | Like in the UK, teeth are considered luxury bones. | FrenchDevRemote wrote: | My grandma got a million dollar cancer treatment over a few | years, multiple surgeries, chemos, meds, dozens of | appointments. | | We paid for TV and parking(and we could have gotten free | taxis to the hospital/doctors appointments but she didn't | want to ride with a stranger...) | | Are you talking about 3rd world countries? | spicybright wrote: | What kind of treatments? How regularly? | Closi wrote: | > What kind of treatments? How regularly? | | In the UK there is a department called NICE which uses | health economics to understand how to best utilize the | funding for the national health service to best improve | health outcomes (generally measured by increasing QALY or | Quality-Adjusted Life Years, but there are multiple | measures in reality). This means that if there is a PS500k | treatment that could save the lives of a 70 year old, but | there is a PS1m treatment that could save the life of a 20 | year old, and there is only budget for one, it would go to | the PS1m treatment because it has the biggest impact on | QALY. | | So the treatments that don't get approval are usually those | that have a poor return. Note that it's usually the whole | treatment that gets approved / denied rather than | particular patient (or it is approved for a particular | subset of people). | | The other issue is capacity - so for instance, if there is | only a limited capacity to perform MRI scans, then triage | is required. | diordiderot wrote: | As an American, that's just disgusting. The government | shouldn't decide if your parents die. | | The free market should decide. If you created enough | shareholder value then you'll have enough to pay for | their treatment like God intended. | spicybright wrote: | I'm hoping this is sarcasm. | diordiderot wrote: | It is indeed | LadyCailin wrote: | I know this is tongue in cheek, but all these countries | also have private health options, so it's not really a | genuine argument against it anyways. If you were too poor | to afford good coverage in the US, you wouldn't be able | to afford the private coverage in other countries either, | but for rich people, private insurance is easily | obtainable, for relatively cheap too, since they compete | with "free". | Symbiote wrote: | It's worth mentioning that in the UK you can still pay | for private treatment, and thus avoid any queues. You can | also buy insurance to pay for private treatment. | | A few countries forbid this, including Canada. | krzyk wrote: | Universal healthcare is well overrated in the US. | | From a country that had it, it usually means: ugly | hospitals, sad faces, long queues for treatments (I mean | wait time for "free" treatment can be well over a year). | | There is no free lunch. | | On the other hand, I usually can get my kid to doctor same | day, while using private healthcare provider (paid by my | employer) it is almost impossible, 2-3 days wait. | | On yet another hand, to get registered to my local doctor I | need to use phone and start calling when they open up (8am) | - sometimes I can't get to registration. The private | healthcare has a normal website where I can look up | registrations - so it is less time consuming (and | automateable to some degree). | | Private hospitals are rare here, and most of real work is | done by public ones. Because the hospitals don't have | enough money, they e.g. don't provide separate meals for | people that need them (e.g. you had a digestive tract | operation), so it is up for the family. | | Good thing recently is that if your kid needs to go to | hospital, there might beds for parent to stay with the kid | (I'm not sure if that is that common in all hospitals) | beojan wrote: | Private healthcare in the UK would have many of the | problems you identify with the NHS if it couldn't pass | anything difficult to the NHS. | Deritiod wrote: | Good for you that your employer pays for it. | | I think universal healthcare is a social must and we need | to fix it instead of talking it down. | NoNameProvided wrote: | I live in east Europe in a country with public healthcare | (our system even considered to be in bad state). However | if I have to choose between spending the saving of my | family and spending a week or a month in an ugly | hospital, I choose the latter without thinking. The | doctors doing the healing are the same, the quality is | the same, only aesthetics differ. | | There are problems with puclic healthcare that needs | solving, but I would much rather focus on thoose problems | than pumping insurace companies with money so private | hospitals can charge 10x-100x the price of a treatmant | (compared to Europe for example). | reacharavindh wrote: | I think the right solution is the middle - private | primary care and public chronic & advanced care. India | does this but loses out on effectiveness because of | capacity problems and simply the huge scale it needs to | work at. | | Primary care is provided by private doctors and | hospitals, so it is almost like a business. Doctors | offices have websites, and get reviews from general | public. You choose where you go to. All health insurances | cover almost all of them. The doctor's offices are | "competing" to provide a good service - being clean, | solving problems correctly, not charging too much etc. | | The government spends what ever money it allocates for | healthcare on Public hospitals that focus on expensive | medical equipment(labs, diagnostic machines etc), and | treating chronically ill patients. | | In an ideal world, you go to private doctors to figure | out what is wrong, and then use the public facility if | you can wait, and get the surgery/medicine/treatment for | free. Often times, the private doctor refers you to a | public doctor with a specific note that says this person | needs this particular surgery using this particular | medical device. | | However, this systems leaves a big hole in catering to | the poor who cannot afford to go to a private doctor for | primary care owing to costs. No system is perfect. I | think this model has the most potential for better | healthcare. | krzyk wrote: | I think a good entry point for making public healthcare | better would be making each doctor visit require a small | amount of money. E.g. $1 or $5. This way people that go | to doctor just to have a talk (because they are bored - | yes that happens in public healthcare, because it is free | so people abuse it) would free up the queue for people | that really need the visit. | | AFAIR there was such proposition in France some time ago, | I don't know how they solved that. | Cyclical wrote: | Coming from Canada, and having had multiple large | surgeries and hospital visits over the years, I've had an | entirely different experience. We have universal | healthcare and some of the best hospitals in the world. | As well, the NHS in the UK is consistently ranked among | the best healthcare in the world. I have experienced just | as long wait times at U.S. hospitals as I have at | Canadian ones, but with honestly far worse service as it | felt like the doctors were trying to get me out of their | sight as fast as humanly possible. | sgjohnson wrote: | All kinds, very often. | | They aren't outright denied, just backlogged for years. | Need a hip replacement in the UK, and you're a smoker? Good | luck trying to get it within a year. | | Because it turns out that healthcare is a service, and just | making it "free" doesn't magically make it immune to | scarcity. | amcoastal wrote: | ulzeraj wrote: | While in Brazil a person very close to me suffered a very | destructive paranoid psychotic crisis. We've tried help | from the public healthcare but their earliest waiting time | was 1 month. I've slept for days at the door because she | was convinced there were Russian cameras and radioactive | emitters planted at our house and wanted to run away. That | person stopped to eat and bath and wasn't thinking | rationally. We couldn't wait a month. | | It was the worst time of my life. I had to pay a private | psychiatrist to treat her. A very good one - we plotted | together a plan to partake on her fantasy and administer a | risperidone injection which was super effective. She is | fine now and visits said doctor once in a year only. | | Sure you can go to a general clinic but the doctor will | forward you to the proper specialist queue which might take | months or even years. | FooBarWidget wrote: | In the Netherlands I once sought an eye treatment for my | wife. The local hospital only had a waiting time of 2 | months. So I called my insurance company who then found | another clinic ~45 minutes away by public transport in | some small village, which had a waiting time of 2 days. | Everything (besides the bus ride) was still covered by | the public insurance system. | Deritiod wrote: | In Germany my aunt gets expensive cancer treatment without | extra pay. | | Any specific you think about? | trompetenaccoun wrote: | Meanwhile people have to pay thousands of Euros to maintain | their teeth if they need root canals or prosthetic dentures | and such. Maybe you're just not old enough to know? | | Btw the "free" tier system is a joke in Germany. Waiting | months for an appointment is the norm for anything more | serious than a cough, unless you're privately insured which | all the rich people and interestingly civil servants are. | Tells you a lot when those working for the government don't | use the public insurance themselves. | | People may be surprised to hear that someone with a medium | income (by EU standards) can get better healthcare in | Africa than in a place like Germany. Or at least for now, | the ANC is working hard on destroying the private | healthcare sector in SA. | Deritiod wrote: | I have to visit a few low key specialists: Neuro etc. And | while waiting is true sometimes calling around helps. | | The teeth problem I'm aware of and find it quite unfair | indeed. | | Nonetheless cancer doesn't make you poor in comparison to | the USA. | | Still something which has to be fixed in Germany. | | But you still have the option to go private if you want. | trompetenaccoun wrote: | Do you have personal experience with fully private | heathcare systems in other countries? I ask because | reacting to criticism of your system with whataboutism | concerning the US is not rational, that's a fallacious | argument. | | As for the US I'm not an expert but my gut feeling is | that people compare apples to oranges just like with most | of these international comparisons. Cost of living is | much higher in the US first of all. Things are simply | more expensive in general and American salaries are a lot | higher for anyone moderately educated. No one I know | who's moved to the US has any problems with insurance, | they can simply afford it. | | Now if you compare a government sponsored system in | Germany with private insurance in the US, of course the | former will be cheaper (be careful though, some of the | real cost is hidden). But like mentioned you also get | completely different treatment. Cost in the US could | likely be cut by making the service worse. If you want to | pay even less, have you looked at the Chinese system? | Germans are massively overpaying in comparison to the PRC | and it's ruining the middle class. /s Gotta sinophy your | healthcare with 10 Yuan TCM pills for cancer treatments. | Because cheap is apparently the goal when it comes to | healthcare. | | Btw, here's the kicker if you want to discuss price: With | the top notch treatment you get in private South African | clinics, people still pay less for their private | insurance over there than the government mandated low | quality one in Germany. I know because I've used both. | Deritiod wrote: | There were articles of people from USA with proper jobs | taking a deep dive after cancer. | | The critisism is coming from USA to. | trompetenaccoun wrote: | https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/krank-und-ruiniert- | schu... | | >The critisism is coming from USA to. | | Dumb people exist in the US too - color me surprised. | It's not about defending the US healthcare system, I'm | sure there are enough issues worth criticizing. However | almost every time one sees such reports it turns out the | people were simply under-insured or outright uninsured if | you actually bother to look at the details and not just | the headline. So in Germany you have similar high bills, | people are simply ignorant of this because the true cost | is socialized and the tax payer pays for it. Have you | never wondered how a fully privately insured person | living a comparable lifestlye at the end of the month | still has more disposable income in the US compared to | Germany? | Deritiod wrote: | You can't be underinsured in Germany at least for | critical thing's. | | The bills are smaller. USA is paying a high price for | their health system. This one is statistically shown. | hulitu wrote: | > And asking stranger kids "Hey kids, want some KFC?"... | | This is not donating to the poor. | willcipriano wrote: | Judging by the English it probably is where the authors of | the malware are from. It's probably a cultural disconnect | issue but there are places in South America, Asia and Africa | where you could do this and it would be a big deal to those | kids. Often people bring boxes of chocolate in their luggage | to hand out to children when they vist these sort of places. | | In the US places like that exist as well but under 13s aren't | just hanging around to invite out and feed. | can16358p wrote: | While the action may look creepy and KFCs definitely not the | healthiest choice, it _is_ donating. You are donating food to | someone hungry. | nemo44x wrote: | You're probably just helping poor people acquire diabetes | faster. In the USA poor people are more likely to be fat | suggesting food access is not a problem. | code_duck wrote: | People associate fast food and lower quality food with | type 2 diabetes, but Type 2 is associated with excessive | carb intake. More expensive food often has just as many | carbohydrates. | can16358p wrote: | If someone's really hungry ordering them a meal in KFC is | better than them not eating anything. | | No one's going to get that type II from a Zinger or two. | boondaburrah wrote: | Access to quality food is a problem. Unhealthy food is | far cheaper than healthy food. | nemo44x wrote: | Perhaps but it's really that fat people eat too much. If | you're going to eat a rich meal then limit the amount you | eat. Don't drink soda all day. Avoid snacking all day. | | It's really an issue with personal responsibility more | than food choice. | nwatson wrote: | U.N. World Food Programme is a better choice. You won't be | accused of Comet Pizza atrocities, though to QAnon anything | U.N. is a problem. | closewith wrote: | From the article: | | > Activity 2: Take five less fortunate children to Dominos, | Pizza Hut or KFC for a treat, take pictures and videos, and | post them on social media. | | It's one of the required activities to allegedly get the | decryption key. | [deleted] | black_13 wrote: | exabrial wrote: | Right now, most people in the US work for free 3-4 months out of | the year via taxes. This is theft as well, but interestingly | enough it has a smaller overhead then taxes, which nearly all of | the funds are transferred to the 1%. | btdmaster wrote: | Side note: taxes do not fund spending in countries that issue | their own currency and that currency is not pegged to something | else. In this sense, the US does not need taxes to fund | spending on healthcare, in the same way it does not need taxes | to spend nearly $1 trillion on the military. | | Modern monetary theory describes taxes as primarily tools to | reduce some effects of income inequality (and that is not done | anymore) and, most importantly, provide the value of money. In | essence, taxes (and the threat of imprisonment if you do not | pay them) is what makes paper, and now numbers on computers, a | thing you will die without. | seoaeu wrote: | It is wild how many folks on HN think they shouldn't have to | pay taxes | exabrial wrote: | It's not wild to think I shouldn't be forced to work for free | 3-4 months out of the year, especially when nearly all of the | money is being transferred to the 1%. If it were actually | contributing to something I may have a different opinion, but | that is not the case. | barneygale wrote: | "Taxation is theft" is the rallying cry of the overprivileged | who want to feel like victims for once. | exabrial wrote: | Completely false, and an attempt at character defamation | while sidestepping the facts. | | A primary human right is you own the fruits of your labor. | Period. | DarylZero wrote: | Equating people's income with "the fruits of their labor" | is ridiculous. | | (Might as well claim that the government's income collected | through taxes is the fruits of the government's labor.) | exabrial wrote: | My income is the fruit of my labor... That not really | disputable... I'm not working for free. | DarylZero wrote: | It's very unrealistic, one might say childishly naive, to | assume that this is how income is distributed. | exabrial wrote: | They have a word for that: Slavery. | dontbenebby wrote: | That's an interesting name. | | >The group's multiple-paged ransom note suggests that victims | perform three socially driven activities to be able to download | the decryption key. | | Wow, just that sentence alone makes a flood of memories come | back. | | (Purposefully doing my morning... executive time... in a place I | never went when I was younger to get a fresh look at things.) | | Just so everyone is on the same page, The Goodwill company is not | good at all. They used to be, maybe, but they do this thing where | they pay people less than minimum wage who often do their job | better than folks with a "normal" IQ. | | It was also widely known in my hometown if you donate to them, | the employees pick off the good stuff so it rarely meets the | shelves -- anyone who was a serious computer hobbyist would do | deals on Craigslist, since unlike eBay, if someone just starts | walking away with your device without paying you can physically | stop them or call the cops. | | I'm an enviornmentalist, I don't believe in getting the newest | anything if the old works, so often I'd sell a previous device | after doing my best to wipe the hard drive. | | Only once did I have an issue on Craigslist, and it was after I | had moved to a new state. | | I had someone I sold a cracked iPhone threatening to sue me and a | bunch of other nonsense. I told them the ad said as is, and I had | assumed they were buying it for the parts, which they paid a more | than fair price for, and that it was unsurprising that an iPhone | with a cracked screen would fail, and they can meet me at kroger | for their money back minus a restocking fee, like you'd expect at | Best Buy, if they promise to never contact me again. | | I picked Kroger because they had an armed security guard, and | apparently literally doing the sale inside the lobby of a college | town police station wasn't enough to send a message: I am | operating in the open, I am giving you a fair deal, we are not | friends, and I get very angry when I have to put a bunch of | thought into how to convince someone to never make me feel unsafe | again. | | (I'd love to find an analyst role, but I don't know how you land | those, my email is in my bio if anyone is having staffing issues | and wants to make an offer.) | leovander wrote: | We similarly did this at a hackathon. | | > Droplock is a tool to help you when your laptop is stolen... | The thief is prompted with an option to donate to charity | (through JustGiving, another BattleHack sponsor) or pay the | laptop owner directly via Braintree. If they fail to take one of | these options, the laptop gets locked down until payment is made. | | https://dropbox.tech/developers/droplock-a-dropbox-hack-wins... | paulgb wrote: | I was expecting them to want you to make a donation and send the | receipt, but they want you to actually round up less fortunate | kids and take them out for pizza. Bizarre. | t67576567567 wrote: | [deleted] | [deleted] | prmoustache wrote: | They don't state you shouldn't ask the parents (and also | invite them) to complete task 2. | cuttysnark wrote: | "okay...but why are you doing this for us?" | | "m'am, it's a long story...they have my files. Also, I am | recording you. Who wants breadsticks?!" | nvr219 wrote: | Nobody gets arrested for buying pizza for a bunch of kids. | amalcon wrote: | Maybe not arrested, but you are pretty likely to have an | unpleasant interaction with the police at a minimum if | you're walking up to kids and asking them to come with you. | Honestly the best way to do this (as in least likely to | interact with the police) in the U.S. would be to hire | actors -- which would feel awfully scummy to me, but that's | honestly the safest way to do it. | | Now, if it asked you to buy some pizzas and just hand them | to some less fortunate kids, you could probably do that | without interacting with the police. You'd still need to be | careful, but it could probably be done. | dheera wrote: | Just invite the parents along, or deliver the pizza to | them. Problem solved | chasd00 wrote: | it's unfair but a woman may be able to pull this off with | kids that live on her street with parents she's at least | waved at. A man? not so much, and the police will | definitely be engaged. | 9873259735609 wrote: | Not in most of the world, but I could definitely see | someone get arrested (or worse) for that in the US. | theodric wrote: | OK, show us how it's done | nvr219 wrote: | ok | Hamuko wrote: | Someone apparently got arrested for offering candy to kids | though, so I wouldn't count on it. | | https://www.shawlocal.com/2020/10/26/man-charged-with- | disord... | wonderbore wrote: | I mean, rolling down the window offering candy to | strangers is the literal textbook example of a 70s | predator, so it's extremely suspicious. Hand out candy | while walking and it won't be _that_ bad. | mike_hock wrote: | It's a comical stereotype of a pedophile that it's almost | laughable that police took it seriously. I wonder what | came out of that "disorderly conduct" charge, because | what did he do other than _remind_ someone of a | stereotype? | [deleted] | topaz0 wrote: | People in this thread have extremely optimistic expectations | of the police. In this country at least, the police don't | protect poor people, kids or no. It's not what they're | spending their time doing. | pbhjpbhj wrote: | Arguably the value in potential change of the rich interacting | with the poor is immeasurably higher than the meal itself's | monetary value. | | I think if I needed to do this in a UK community where I wasn't | already known then I'd speak to a MP/councillor and say I | wanted to fund them having a meal with X poor families so they | could hear about their struggles and such. | | It's actually an interesting challenge. | | You could probably donate '5 family pizza dinners' to a school | in a poorer area, eg for a school fair. | usednet wrote: | Its definitely a cultural thing. The task would be extremely | easy in any Indian city, but they probably don't realize it | would be near impossible in the West. Same with task 3, it | would bankrupt Americans to pay for somebody else's medical | bills. | mdp2021 wrote: | It is completely insanity. It starts by assuming that the | affected user has or could ever be available to have | facesomething, instasomething and whasomething accounts, | | and that said user could ever be convinced to open some, | | and that said user could access them on a machine apart from | the infected. | | They are completely bonkers. | danans wrote: | It's only perhaps possible in the most desperately | impoverished portions of Indian cities. If you think even | moderately poor and above Indians are going to be OK with a | random person picking up their children for a meal, that's | pretty unlikely. | iepathos wrote: | There is no requirement to "pickup" any children. Easiest | way to accomplish task 2 is to wait outside a pizza hut or | kfc and ask families coming in if it's ok if you pay for | their meal and take some photos to help with your | situation. You can explain your situation to people if | there are any questions and pretty much everyone will be | happy to accept a free meal for your good deed. Free money | with no strings is accepted by 99.9% of people in every | country. | notsureaboutpg wrote: | pcthrowaway wrote: | I encountered children begging for food and/or money in | Delhi | devoutsalsa wrote: | Slumdog pizzanaire. | danans wrote: | Yes, I think that's captured by "the most desperately | impoverished portions of Indian cities". Their parents | have often sent them to beg, because the need is greater | than that society's willingness to fill (vs. low income | school lunch programs in the US that keep us from having | that scenario). The blame for that situation is squarely | on India. | | But you don't have to go very far up the socioeconomic | ladder even in India to get to a strata of the population | who would not send their kids to beg in the streets. | People there wish to protect and provide for their kids | as much as anywhere else in the world. | accurrent wrote: | > The blame for that situation is squarely on India. | | This is a bit of a sweeping statement. Colonization has a | big role to play here also. When the british left india | the average life expectancy was barely 40. Many other | former colonies struggle with poverty and the | socioeconomic disaster that it brings along. India has | improved since then but has a long way to go. | danans wrote: | > This is a bit of a sweeping statement. Colonization has | a big role to play here also | | I agree completely. Colonization set the stage for many | of the persistent struggles faced by many in the | developing world. But colonial powers didn't teach people | in India how to oppress their own people, even if they | wasted no time taking advantage of and amplifying the | pre-existing situation. | | Today, when a country as productive as India (they are | self sufficient in food production) still has large | numbers of children going hungry, it suggests that there | are serious issues with distribution of basic resources | like calories. Yes, it has improved, but not nearly | enough. | | Also, the US is not orders of magnitude better in this | way, since we have millions of children relying on "last- | resort" food security programs - vestiges of the New Deal | - that are under constant threat of being cut. Before | these programs were enacted in the 1930s, children were | indeed going hungry in the streets of the US, and it | continued for a long time afterwards (and sometimes to | this day). | | If we didn't have these programs, I'm not convinced the | situation wouldn't be more like India, since we have | equivalent fundamental social ills that drive children | into precarious hunger situations. | andi999 wrote: | Or task 3 would also be impossible in a country with | universal health care. | soneil wrote: | That was my first thought - the only logical way I could | see for step 3 would be to pay for people's parking. | refurb wrote: | Universal healthcare doesn't pay for everything. My | friend in Canada has a boy with a rare disease and the | out of pocket costs are significant. | threads2 wrote: | Hey don't downvote this person! Pharmaceuticals, dental, | vision are all things Canadians still have to pay for. | It's a real shame. | cube00 wrote: | Even countries with universal health care have private | hospitals, they'll take your money. One near me asks you to | consider paying for their services out of your retirement | funds if you don't have private health insurance. | andi999 wrote: | So change the premise of a person who cannot afford the | treatment to cannot afford it in a private hospital? | Hownto find such a person? | | Probably the easiest of alln3 is to fly to some poor | country and do the stuff there (supported by a local | lawyer). | 9873259735609 wrote: | There are plenty of people who cannot get care at | government hospitals in countries with "universal | healthcare", because of waiting lists, because the | government doesn't consider the treatment they need to be | worthwhile, etc. You could easily find some of those | people on crowdfunding sites, and the media occasionally | writes about such cases. The problem is that paying for | their treatment at a private hospital would be very | expensive, unless the ransomware would accept a partial | crowdfunding contribution. | mushbino wrote: | I've never been bankrupted by paying for millions of senior | citizens to have Medicare, but I have been bankrupted by my | own health care expenses. | hedora wrote: | If the goal is to pay off some random person's medical | debt, things become extremely affordable: | | https://ripmedicaldebt.org | | I think that, by law, whenever debt is sold, the person | that owes the debt should have the right to buy their own | debt at the sale price. The current system is full of moral | hazards, and this would help level the playing field. | | (Sorry to hear about the bankruptcy. That really shouldn't | be possible, anywhere.) | dheera wrote: | I think one of the truly bizarre issues with helping the less | fortunate is that many affluent people don't want to be _seen_ | helping people on the street. They 'd rather discreetly put | money in a box for "someone else" to do the "dirty" work. | digital_butt wrote: | Honestly, I'd rather just pay the money directly than do all of | this BS. | Majestic121 wrote: | I assumed the "goodwill" would be a donation to an association | that would be a front for the hackers to get the money somehow, | but it seems that it's really acts of goodwill with no real money | flowing, so maybe the hackers actually believe they're doing good | ? | dontbenebby wrote: | Maybe someone should trace the flows and look for conflicts of | interest. | RektBoy wrote: | Maybe, but it sounds too difficult, why not just force people | to pay in XMR and byebye. | [deleted] | bko wrote: | Wouldn't any legitimate charity return money that was donated | through coercion? If someone stole something and gave it to me, | and the rightful owner asked for it back, I would give it back. | I guess it would just look bad asking for them to return it but | most people would understand. | pwdisswordfish0 wrote: | I guess "it's not about the money, it's about sending a | message". | chadash wrote: | The malware group is not asking for donations to | organizations, but to individuals at the hospital. They are | requiring that someone at the infected business records | videos of themselves going to a hospital or health clinic, | looking for people who seem like they need financial help and | offering to help them pay for their medical care. | | 1) Good luck suing poor individuals to get your money back 2) | It's hard to fathom what kind of asshole you'd have to be to | walk into an ER, record a video of you offering people money | to help pay their hospital bill and then demand that money | back off-camera. | sfg wrote: | I imagine you'd explain before recording what is going on | (assuming you don't just fake the entire thing with some | friends), rather than doing anything as silly as suing | anybody. It wouldn't take more than a token amount to get | people to participate. A lot of people wouldn't even want | money. They'd get that this kind of blackmail is horrible | and help you out. | surement wrote: | > It's hard to fathom what kind of asshole you'd have to be | | I don't think you picked up on who this asshole is in this | situation | mushbino wrote: | That just sounds like campaign season. | Cthulhu_ wrote: | I mean charities could open up crypto accounts; since it's a | public ledger, the ransomware operators would be able to see | the transaction. | boredpudding wrote: | Being forced to donate would just result in refunds. The | current way they're doing it, there's no way to refund. | seanhunter wrote: | There are charities who accept donations in crypto. We | donated future royalties on secondary sales for some of the | things we did at SXSW to Action against hunger for one | example. | giraffe_lady wrote: | Charities will "accept" nearly anything because turning | down donations is bad publicity and people barely need a | reason at all to turn on a charity. They don't want it | though and will offload it as cheaply as possible. Often | this is a minor cost center for some charities lol. | moron4hire wrote: | > We donated future royalties on secondary sales | | So you donated nothing? | daniel-cussen wrote: | What if their victims are already poor? | nemo44x wrote: | What happens when a poor person gets this virus? | kirykl wrote: | Likely in the world context of the ransomware creators, 'poor | person' wouldn't own a computer | SemanticStrengh wrote: | Is there a way to prove that you own an old bank account with X | money in it? Or better, to be able to exhaustively list your | bank accounts and their respective amounts? Well a salary bill | pay document should be enough though if not falsifiable. | blep_ wrote: | I expect not. Actual government agencies have trouble with | that kind of thing (for taxation/fines/judgment enforcement); | random hackers have no chance. | Hamuko wrote: | Can I assume that the author of this ransomware is American or at | least is very immersed in American culture? Because the | activities listed sound very America-centric. I've never seen | someone actually sleeping roadside in the cold, and since we have | universal healthcare, I've also not heard of someone dying in the | hospital because their loved ones couldn't gather up enough | money. | | I guess I might as well just smash my hard drive with a hammer if | I get this. | drstewart wrote: | Can I ask why you need permission or care about assigning a | nationality in the first place? | | Also, the opposite of your country is not America. Aka just | because you don't observe something in your country doesn't | make it automatically American. | boomboomsubban wrote: | It seems to come from India, though the only identifiers seem | rather weak. I'll admit I know little about poverty in India, | but all three seem possible there. | Hamuko wrote: | Doesn't India still have universal healthcare? | boomboomsubban wrote: | Again, I'll admit I know little, but the answer seems like | "sort of." Wikipedia says 23% of people can't afford | treatment, and hospitalization forces many of people into | poverty or lifelong debt. | nisegami wrote: | >I've also not heard of someone dying in the hospital because | their loved ones couldn't gather up enough money | | Am from a country with universal health care. It's not uncommon | to die waiting for treatment or there simply not being any way | to get the treatment in my country. Raising money to visit the | US for treatment is a pretty common thing here as a result. | nemo44x wrote: | And in the USA if you don't have insurance and are dying | you'll be treated. They act like dead poor people are piled | up outside of hospitals. They'll even discount you to 0 if | they see you're really poor. | code_duck wrote: | It's true that ERs don't turn people down, but some | hospitals would be happy to treat someone but also send | them a gigantic bill which may or may not eventually be | waived. Speaking from experience, often people put off | obtaining medical care because they fear large bills and | financial ruin. | nisegami wrote: | I wanted to mention something like this, but I felt like my | experience is too limited to be sure. My impression is that | in the US, the cost of care will lead to people avoiding | seeking treatment for things that don't appear urgent. | Sometimes, those things are actually urgent and they'll be | worse off for waiting. But in cases where there's a clear, | urgent need for care, they'll rarely be denied treatment | outright. Instead, they'll be burdened with debt | afterwards. | hnal943 wrote: | Which is better in most cases than the rationed care of | government healthcare, where people die waiting for | "free" healthcare. | pempem wrote: | Here's the missing words: 'well funded and well | implemented' universal healthcare. It is possible as the | stories listed here indicate, and it works when done right. | | Blaming poor implementation is throwing out the baby with | the bathwater. | | What does not work is a system where all things are private | and everyone is at the hands of the market. That is | something one of the richest countries in the world has | shown us over and over and over again. | seoaeu wrote: | > Can I assume that the author of this ransomware is American | or at least is very immersed in American culture? | | No, they sound like someone who learned about the US from | internet memes, but doesn't have firsthand experience. For | example, hospitals in the US do not generally collect payment | at the time of treatment so it wouldn't really make much sense | to show up to one and try to pay for someone needing urgent | medical care | code_duck wrote: | Urgent Care facilities do. One time I badly needed a minor | surgery. I went to an urgent care and was told they could see | me immediately, but didn't accept my insurance and would | charge $450. My other option was to go to the hospital across | the street which did take my insurance, but I had to wait 8 | hours and be treated like I was an opiate addict with a self | inflicted or imaginary condition. So, that would have been | great if someone somehow showed up and paid the first clinic. | BrianOnHN wrote: | > I've also not heard of someone dying in the hospital because | their loved ones couldn't gather up enough money. | | It's more like "having to postpone treatment so long that it | doesn't work." | | The same also applies if you have to fight with scheming | insurance companies. | | The government, all of us, have most to gain from a healthy | society. And a dead person couldn't care less about their | health. It's about time our systems reflect that! | Hamuko wrote: | Well, the way that "activity" here is phrased, they kinda | expect you to lurk in the nearest hospital for some kind of a | medical emergency that can be solved with a bank transfer. | The people postponing treatment probably aren't loitering in | the hospital. | irrational wrote: | Take a video and post it to your social media account. So... what | would someone like me who doesn't have any social media accounts | do? | Cheetah26 wrote: | I had the same thought. | mdp2021 wrote: | They are assuming a completely made up reality where they mix | up an invented target with all potential victims. | rutierut wrote: | This is probably obvious to anyone but there isn't anything | "good" about this, I expected this to be something along the | lines of a crypto donation to GiveDirectly but this is just a | sick wannabe Blackmirror power play. | donthellbanme wrote: | kordlessagain wrote: | It's the specifics that give it away. "Take 5 poor children | from your neighborhood to Pizza Hut." | | Screaming kids at Pizza Hut aside, we can't make other people | have empathy. They have to find it and explore it themselves, | perhaps by seeing others do the same. | | It's especially ironic that someone with lowered empathy would | be demanding someone else show fake empathy publicly before | giving them back control of their own computer. | chasd00 wrote: | wouldn't taking 5 poor kids to a pizza hut be an act of | sympathy and not empathy? | neltnerb wrote: | I think the approach is clumsy and overly constrained, but | I would hope the idea was that by being forced to actually | interact with neighbors and their families it would | increase social cohesion and empathy. | | I don't think that's particularly incorrect, isolation from | neighbors and the invisibility of the poor makes it a heck | of a lot easier to ignore their problems. | | I'm not sure in this case it's sympathy or empathy, it | sounds like mere facilitation of the potential for future | relationships and dialog between poor kids and people well | enough off to own their own computer. | | Imagining these hackers trying to individually determine | whether someone has done a good enough job of pretending | they're nice and whether a victim is _themselves_ too poor | to do this stuff... pretty amazing that they 'd declare | themselves the arbitrators of whether something is | sufficiently repentant. | | And posting it on social media? What, are we doxxing | ourselves now to get out of ransomware attacks? I don't | even have twitter or facebook or instagram or whatsapp... | for good reason! Why make it performative, someone could | just send them receipts if the goal was to help regardless | of publicity. | BurningFrog wrote: | Pretty sure that _being forced_ to do things typically | increases resentment, not social cohesion and empathy. | neltnerb wrote: | Sure, sometimes. Certainly against the people applying | force. | | I am definitely not suggesting this approach will help, | it seems like a ridiculous solution that's all about | exploiting performative compassion for the sake of the | hacker's egos... | | But I also disagree with your statement as a blanket | claim. Kids are forced to go to school and while they'll | be resentful of the system or their parents or their | teachers I haven't really seen kids being resentful of | _each other_ and certainly their peer group develops | social cohesion and empathy for one another. | | Everyone forced to do community service doesn't | necessarily resent the people they are helping, they | resent the judicial system. | | At least, that seems like the rational response to me, it | would be incredibly petty to resent some kids you take to | dinner just because you're doing it due to blackmail. | Resent the blackmailers... | unbalancedevh wrote: | I just can imagine how I'd convince 5 kids to go to lunch | with me, without outright kidnapping them. This sounds like | Black Mirror material. | [deleted] | bell-cot wrote: | Convince or not, I'm thinking you might attract some really | personal attention from law enforcement by the time you | made your pitch to the 5th kid. | | Or maybe you happen to be a 97-year-old retired nun, who | everyone in your neighborhood knows, and it'd be fine. Not | trying to be judgemental or anything. | TedDoesntTalk wrote: | The demand is indicative of where the author lives: think | where in the world it would be acceptable for a stranger | to approach children under 13 and invite them to lunch at | a restaurant. | bonestamp2 wrote: | Not necessarily even a stranger per se, but poor | communities are often "closer" to each other. They | (sometimes) depend on neighbors for help more than rich | neighbors do. Many of the kids play outside because they | don't all have ipads and playstations keeping them | inside, many adults walk to the bus/subway and interact | with the kids in their neighborhood every day. So, I can | see how a well known neighbor might splurge on a treat | for some of the kids in their neighborhood to brighten | their day. | iepathos wrote: | Can't make people have empathy, but you can make them carry | out empathetic acts over and over again through blackmail | with this ransomware. | pigtailgirl wrote: | -- to nitpick -- empathy is the ability to put yourself in | someones position & truly feel what their reality must be | like -- compassion is acting on that empathy -- | iepathos wrote: | It doesn't actually require having empathy to commit | empathetic acts which are acts that display empathy. For | example, smiling is an empathetic act, but it doesn't | require having any actual empathy to do it. Sociopaths | can smile and commit other empathetic acts to appear to | have empathy without having any true empathy behind it. | pigtailgirl wrote: | -- not disagreeing with you! - just talking to the | linguistics - the distinctions here are interesting :=) | -- | | https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/topic/compassion/definit | ion | oliv__ wrote: | Is it empathetic if you don't mean it? | iepathos wrote: | Yes, an act can be empathetic even if the person doing it | doesn't feel empathy. For example, smiling at another | person is an empathetic act. Sociopaths do this all the | time without feeling actual empathy for people. It makes | it easier for them to blend in if they seem to have | empathy via empathetic acts however disingenuous they may | be. | dentemple wrote: | A "sick wannabe Blackmirror power play" is a little much. | | This is probably the cheapest ransomware unlock that's ever | been put out there (unless you're based in the US, then good | fucking luck on the medical care clause). If you're a company | whose security policies are too terrible to survive a | ransomware attack, then you'd rather be hit with this one than | any of the others. | trompetenaccoun wrote: | Right. Picking up random children from the street and taking | them to a restaurant comes at almost no cost. In fact if | anyone sees this and calls the authorities they are likely to | give you free lodging and food at a state owned facility top | of it :) | barneygale wrote: | Again, this is mostly an American problem. In other | countries you know your neighbours and local community and | wouldn't have a problem feeding hungry kids. | root_axis wrote: | Hungry kids are only a problem in the U.S? | KronisLV wrote: | > In other countries you know your neighbours and local | community and wouldn't have a problem feeding hungry | kids. | | This is probably only viable in smaller communities where | people know one another, which may or may not show | something about the authors of the malware. It's not just | a social "issue", but rather one of population density, | where you end up not knowing almost anyone around you | personally. | | Approaching random people, worse yet, kids, with promises | of food in any metropolitan area or even moderately sized | city would be viewed as exceedingly weird and creepy. | Source: Eastern European country. | | I get what the malware authors were trying to do, but it | sounds like a somewhat naive and perhaps detached from | reality implementation of a "sort of positive" idea. | | It would have been way more viable to understand that | payments for scammers work because they don't take hours | or days of mucking about, but rather a payment through | whatever means are available - which could also be | applied to making the people affected donate to any | number of charities of their or the authors' choice. | TedDoesntTalk wrote: | Right. I see that happen all the time in Canada, the UK, | and even Germany. I think France has a national "Take a | Strange Child to Lunch" Day, too. | mathlover2 wrote: | I can see a scenario in which a "chaotic good" hacker uses a | customized form of ransomware on some large corporation or | extremely wealthy person in order to force them to make a | donation or do some majorly positive action for the world.1 | Pulling this off without going against the "good" qualification | would require appropriately selecting the target and files to | encrypt, and appropriately phrasing the demands made to that | target: you want to choose a target that has a lot of unused | money to give, you have to make sure that the files tied up are | not things that other, more disadvantaged people would need, | and you want to make sure that the requested positive action is | both positive and not reversible by the other party after the | fact. | | Needless to say, deploying the ransomware discussed in the link | would not be a chaotic good act. More like neutral or chaotic | evil. | | 1 And just to be clear, don't actually do this. I'm never going | to do this, never have done this, certainly am not doing it at | the moment, and I advise that no one else actually do this. | There are better ways to use your time. | temp8964 wrote: | > "do some majorly positive action for the world" | | What can Jeff Bezos do more positive than creating Amazon? | | What can Elon Musk do more positive than creating Tesla and | SpaceX? | | etc. etc. | oehpr wrote: | /s? | l33t2328 wrote: | Do you honestly think Amazon isn't a net positive for the | world? Even ignoring how useful AWS is, Amazon.com is | incredibly convenient. | sodality2 wrote: | > What can Jeff Bezos do more positive than creating | Amazon? | | Donating | possiblydrunk wrote: | The ends justify the means - does this ever really work out? | mikotodomo wrote: | robin hood.exe | RektBoy wrote: | What is next? Be healthy ransomware? Forcing people to exercise | on camera, for keys? | k_sze wrote: | Now you're giving them ideas. | fodi wrote: | Sounds like a Black Mirror episode. | [deleted] | SemanticStrengh wrote: | I think there is an untapped market for people willingly paying | some people to watch/monitor them achieve their desired goals | consistently. It's similar to beeminder and bodydoubling or | r/GetMotivatedBuddies except it would be much more effective | because of professionalism. On beeminder there's not check if | you being honest/accountable. On GetMotivatedBuddies you | generally find unreliable people AND you must coach them too. | On bodydoubling websites, people are watching each other but | there's generally not interactions, just eyes. And no | professionalism. | | The one that will build this will enable a disruptive market | where people can finally become much closer to their ideal | self, by the effective means of social pressure, real-time | e-coaching and monetary incentive. Does this actually exists? | upupandup wrote: | Wouldn't you just create a Twitch account for this? | oefrha wrote: | My new startup: on demand deepfake exercise footage of | yourself. | TheMerovingian wrote: | Needs more blockchain. | NoGravitas wrote: | Sickos: Yes, ha ha ha, YES! | steve76 wrote: | loa_in_ wrote: | "I found that, ironically, common sense isn't all that common | around here" | chungy wrote: | I spent perhaps too long figuring out how the thrift stores | launched a ransomware attack. | FredPret wrote: | Very Black Mirror | jzellis wrote: | Ah, the comments here never cease to provide amusement. | cuttysnark wrote: | Tangentially, I dislike strongly when people record videos of | themselves doing "goodwill" for others--especially for social | media; it always reeks [to me] of insincerity. Not to mention the | often unwanted spotlight it casts onto the receiver of said | goodwill. If one cares, one does acts of goodwill privately, | without thinking about how others will react--including and | especially--on the internet. | | "The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one | is watching." -- John Wooden | | edit: taming em-dashes | upupandup wrote: | There's a channel on Youtube called Jimmy Darts, he gives out | $500 to random people or whoever he deems they are poor. Lot of | silly little tasks but you know I enjoy watching the content | and people who really need the money get it. | | If somebody wants to also build a hospital and plaster their | name on it, let them! As long as somebody benefits. | zelos wrote: | "Oh, the best charity is to give and not let other people know. | | But what if your example encourages others to give?" | cuttysnark wrote: | I've personally been inspired by seeing these acts in real | life. I don't get the same feeling when the person is holding | a camera phone in the face of a bewildered recipient. Sorry. | Etheryte wrote: | See also, "Extremis", modern Doctor Who series 10 episode 6 | [0]: | | "Only in darkness are we revealed. Goodness is not goodness | that seeks advantage. Good is good in the final hour, in the | deepest pit, without hope, without witness, without reward. | Virtue is only virtue in extremis." | | [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6340130/characters/nm0524240 | pid-1 wrote: | IDK, my family was poor and had no concept of charity. | | The first time I donated something was after a friend shared a | social project they helped in LinkedIn. That was when I thought | "hey, I'm kinda wealthy now, I probably could help.". | | So, I understand where you are coming from, influencers and | shit, but there's a real chance that by doing any charity | publicly you might trigger others to do as well. | seoaeu wrote: | I think the difference is whether you're sharing that you | donated, or parading around some disadvantaged people for | your social media followers. Making a hungry person chose | between a meal and their dignity isn't charitable. | reflexco wrote: | I think the primary reason for this reaction is not just the | inclination to be suspicious of virtue signaling when it's too | obvious, but the fear of social pressure these public displays | of charity might cause. We don't want to have to feel like | we're forced to imitate. | | That's totally fair but then we also complain all the time that | media is only filled with negativity and despair. Let's be | rational and appreciate public displays of good deeds for what | they are, good. If some people use these as a distraction from | mischievous deeds on the backside, that's an other matter. | [deleted] | buscoquadnary wrote: | Great video saitarizing that concept by New Zealand sketch | comedy group Viva La Dirt League. Worth a chuckle. | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lfXpKX0Ww0 | mattigames wrote: | I actually think the complete opposite, there is so little good | in the world that doing it to boost your ego or getting viewers | on YouTube it's as good reason as any, and it can influence | others to do the same, we learn pretty much everything by | imitation, why would being good be any different? That guy who | went viral for recording himself picking tons of litter without | doubt made thousands of people think before littering and his | actions have had a more positive impact than most people on | this site. | | I only had to sleep in the streets one single cold night, I | wouldn't have mind in the slightest to be filmed thanking the | helper in exchange for a warm room, I definitely would had feel | I got the upper hand on such "deal". | huhtenberg wrote: | 100%. Amen to that. | | I've read somewhere that all donations that Paul McCartney | makes come with a rider that if his name is leaked, the | donation is withdrawn. | | Regardless of whether this is true, I think that's _the_ way to | donate if it comes from your heart. | sandworm101 wrote: | There is nothing less charitable than threatening a charity. | If that rider is true then he is a jerk. The only reason to | do that is because he wants the charity to congratulate him, | yet keep quiet. If he wanted to make an actual anonymous | donation then he could do so though a shell company. But no, | he wants them to see where the money is coming from so they | can shake his hand and smile at him for his benevolence. Want | to be actually anonymous: cash in an envelope in the donation | bin. | cryptica wrote: | I've been predicting the rise of 'good clans' and 'good mafias' | for some time. IMO, as governments become more corrupt, good | people will be forced to join clans which adhere to their | principles for survival. Power will shift towards clans, mafias | and hacker groups. | larodi wrote: | very typically it is clans/mafia that corrupt the governments. | such claims that mafia/clans are better than governments are | very short-sighted and childish by nature. | cryptica wrote: | What happened is that all the bad clans which produced no | economic value have corrupted governments and are now using | it to extract value from the good, value-creating citizens. | Most of the bad people are already rich. | | Good, value-creating citizens never had to consider joining a | clan before because they were able to easily capture profits | from their own labor without much extra effort on the value- | capture/extraction side (they could focus purely on value | creation)... But as this is becoming increasingly difficult | to do, they will be forced to join their own clans to ensure | that they can capture more of the proceeds of the value which | they created. Since it cannot happen naturally as it did | before, it needs to happen via explicit political means. | | You can think of workers' unions as a kind of clan... This is | happening everywhere in the economy now and IMO, it will only | get worse as governments become more extractive and corrupt | and as it becomes more profitable for people to spend their | time and energy engaging in extractive activities rather than | productive activities. The degree of corruption and | aggression within clans will have to keep rising to match the | corruption and aggression of governments. | danans wrote: | Ransomware GoFundMe. Cute, but still criminal and laughable | completely unscalable as a way to address social issues. | racl101 wrote: | What if you're poor yourself? :( | londons_explore wrote: | This is a government backed outfit which is demo-ing it's | abilities. | Aleksdev wrote: | Forcing me to help people at ransom isn't really going to make me | feel good about doing it. | shikoba wrote: | > make me feel good about doing it | | I don't think it's the goal. | jeroenhd wrote: | I can see a younger version of myself making something like this | and intentionally letting it slip to the media for attention. I | th8nk this line is telling: "Since there are no known victims/ | targets for the ransomware group, their Tactics, Techniques and | Procedures remain unknown." | | I don't think there's a risk if any great outbreak here. A bunch | of scriptkiddies took some open source project and modified it | with some silly instructions. | | Alternatively, I could see this used in one of those scam calls. | They set up remote accesslike normally and then months laltrr | the6 infrct their victims and the "trusted Microsoft technician" | gives them a call to steal even more off their money. This time | there's an actual piece of malware that gets removed, solidifying | trust in the scammers even though they were the ones to infect | the victims in the first place. | karlzt wrote: | You have a hell of a typo: | | >laltrr the6 infrct | | *later they infect | jeroenhd wrote: | I guess I must've missed the autocorrect suggestion. Too late | to edit now. The curse of relying on modern tech, my mobile | typing has become lazier as autocorrect learned to understand | me better... | bonestamp2 wrote: | Maybe not even script kiddies, there are (allegedly) Ransomware | as a Service organizations now. | dontbenebby wrote: | Don't be dismissive of script kiddies, they can cause a lot of | chaos, and often do it because they feel like no amount of self | education or self improvement will improve their chances of | stable full time employment. | | (Hence many of them operating out of the former USSR.) | jrm4 wrote: | I don't dismiss. And while I don't specifically encourage | anyone to do anything illegal, script kiddies are probably on | balance _a good thing._ That 's just free pentesting. | | (This is part of my broader idea that "cybersecurity" will | remain nearly entirely impotent until we figure out a way to | inject real liability. When something breaks, someone needs | to pay or be punished. It's that simple. Perhaps start with | Microsoft.) | goshx wrote: | I've met tons of script kiddies over the years and none of | them were concerned about employment. They do what they do | just to show that they can. | fny wrote: | This a thousand times. The more nefarious hacks are done by | state actors and professional groups. | | For script kiddies, it's mostly for the lulz. | the_only_law wrote: | > I've met tons of script kiddies over the years and none | of them were concerned about employment. They do what they | do just to show that they can. | | Even worse: when I was a kid trying to hack around everyone | had some (probably false or based on rare occurrences) | where the hacker/script kiddie would get caught but | employed for their skills instead of prosecuted. | johnmaguire wrote: | This is the story of how Jono met Dug Song and started | Duo! | | https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/19/how-hackers-dug-song-and- | jon... | Terry_Roll wrote: | What do you expect when the world is run by criminals? | Seriously!?! | | Look at the people who make laws, they dont have the | intelligence or morality to even teach a TL;DR to everyone | at school. Talk about set up to fail! | | And when they upgrade the laws they dont even inform each | and every member of the public, let alone let the public | debate whether its a good law or not. | | Democracy is the ultimate criminal act because people are | tricked into having laws forced upon them by a small | minority of criminals who decide what is best for you. | Democracy is parenting of adults. | | And yet the stupid keep holding up the law as an example of | righteousness without knowing ALL the laws. What is the | definition of stupid? A law abiding citizen. | tomc1985 wrote: | So what would you have instead? | | A fully participatory democracy where every citizen votes | on everything? Or authoritarianism? | Terry_Roll wrote: | > A fully participatory democracy where every citizen | votes on everything? | | What like Switzerland? | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_democracy#Ref | ere... | kjeetgill wrote: | I was thinking the exact same thing, as former (and | reformed) lightweight teen hacker. My motivations? | Employment? More like for the sheer joy of discovery and | fascination with working through ideas. And maybe the | slightly sketchier teen hackers: lulz. | iratewizard wrote: | It's not enough to notice that something's possible. You | have to do it for a good laugh and show your friends. | Sorry, Valve. | 0des wrote: | I just wanted to know what was out there, and most | importantly what actual aliens looked like. I cringe now. | aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: | >I cringe now. | | Why? They look that scary? | bornfreddy wrote: | That was one thing that became pretty apparent with | smartphones - those blurred "photos" of UFOs were scams. | If they weren't, there would be tons of high quality | alien vehicles footage available by now. | MockObject wrote: | I'm not sure about that. I have a pretty good phone, but | I still can't take a decent picture of the moon, so I'd | have no hope with a suspicious airplane-sized light in | the night sky. The cameras are optimized for selfies and | meals. | 0des wrote: | One of my biggest disappointments about how I thought the | future would be as a child is my lack of an alien best | friend who lives in the house next door with my alien | neighbors. | | Don't get me wrong the future is great. We've got smart | devices that answer questions when spoken to, the | knowledge of the world in our hand, the self driving | cards and the paytokens and stuff. Just.. it's not the | same. There has to be some kind of alien hominids out | there. | | My childhood expectations vs what I actually received is | so incongruent. Nobody even has any powers yet. I haven't | seen anybody levitate a damn thing and it's really | starting to wear me out. I'm losing hope. | dontbenebby wrote: | >I've met tons of script kiddies over the years and none of | them were concerned about employment. | | Your sample is probably biased in some way. I've met many | who feel trapped in wage slavery, here in the USA. | 867-5309 wrote: | agree. the freelancer / gig economy is dominate by script | kiddie / template churner companies in India for whom | $2/hr is a good wage. there's no competing with that | jamal-kumar wrote: | I love it when people come to me because their big | spender investment in bottom dollar software they | splurged for on fiver is failing and they're in panic | mode. Like what did you expect performing an act of labor | exploitation, a working machine? Loyalty? | cupofpython wrote: | this is a feature, not a bug, of globalization. Work that | can be done in cheaper countries is allocated there. | | On a related note (and I get negative feedback whenever i | say this, but) this is the future of all software | developers as i see it. If you can do your entire job | remotely, then "remote" is going to get optimized over | time. | | It does not make sense to spend your time in USA (for | example) coding when you can stop at developing the specs | and send it overseas to be coded for half the cost or | less. Architects dont lay bricks, and brick layers dont | need to understand architecture. Accumulating knowledge | of many different types of syntax for expressing the same | principles is something that is only going to depreciate | in value over time. | ipaddr wrote: | I think AI will do a better cheaper job before your | vision of the future comes to life. | cupofpython wrote: | i like that bet, I was ignoring AI in my observations. | The server running the AI will probably be cheaper | overseas all the same though | ipaddr wrote: | We'll have the benefits of servers hosted locally but all | staff will remote in from overseas. | pault wrote: | "Just" sending it overseas to be coded is more likely to | end in failure than success, unless you have a lot of | experience and know what the pitfalls are (which is a | very expensive education). I'm not picking on developing | countries; the same goes for big enterprise contractor | providers in the U.S. They have no incentive to write | stable, maintainable code. Their incentive is to make it | just stable enough to not get sued and get it out the | door as quickly as possible. An employee that will have | to live with that code for several years will focus on | maintainability purely out of self interest if nothing | else. As to whether overseas firms are able to undercut | domestic firms, it's a possibility, but anyone that has | dealt with time zone issues and cultural barriers most | likely knows what they are sacrificing to get that | discounted rate. | cupofpython wrote: | Why wouldnt an overseas employee have all the exact same | incentives and challenges to maintain their code as a | more local remote worker? | | I think you are assuming I was implying overseas work to | be all short-term contract work but I am not saying | anything about the paperwork. The paperwork will write | itself such that the relationship between a remote worker | and the company is identical whether they are in texas or | india. And itll happen that way because of financial | incentive to do so | | It's already happening. People from NY and CA are moving | to Texas and Georgia, and then their salaries are being | reduced to adjust for cost of living - but they still | make really good money for Texas or Georgia. Maybe those | SWE think they are irreplaceable, but what they have | effectively demonstrated to the company is that the work | itself can be done entirely remote, and so when it comes | time to replace them - they will look for a cheap remote | worker. Maybe today it is tough to find good replacements | in India, Ukraine, etc, but over time (on the order of 1 | generation would be my bet) those replacements will be | much easier to find over there. | klibertp wrote: | > when you can stop at developing the specs and send it | overseas to be coded for half the cost or less. | | Good luck with that. Please, do try it and report back to | tell us how it went. My prediction: | | No matter what you do, the spec will be incomplete, and | if it's large enough, it will contain contradictions. The | culture of not questioning superiors in many of | "overseas" will make it hard to notice and only after | substantial time without progress someone will realize | the problem. That person or group of people will start | communicating with clients and overseas to work out the | problems in the spec, accumulating additional overhead. | The changes and additions to the spec will render a lot | of work already done unusable, so the overseas team will | have to start from scratch. Then, they will work on the | code, while you will be wondering if they're working or | not. If it turns out they do, sooner or later they will | provide you with some results. The result is going to be | pretty bad, because competent people don't want to work | for $2/h, no matter where you go. But you will get some | result, and will begin testing it. You will discover a | lot of bugs, and then you will have to fight tooth and | nail to have them fixed, because nobody will want to take | responsibility for the failures. At this point, the | project will be a year late, and will have flown past all | reasonable estimates in terms of required funding. In the | end, you're forced to contract consultants - you'll have | to sell your kidney to pay them - who will make the | product barely-usable some 2 years after anticipated | launch date. | cupofpython wrote: | Yes there would be logistical issues if we tried to | actualize this future today, rather than allowing it to | naturally progress over time as I stated. Foreign culture | is irrelevant, as you can bring people in to train them | on-site and then let them go back home to work.. or send | someone from here over there. Also remote workers will | evolve to meet whatever is necessary to make the | arrangement work because the financial incentive is HUGE | and isn't going anywhere. | | the point is that lower cost of living areas will promote | remote work to transition there from high cost of living | areas over time. The pandemic already showcased this. | | Youre right that the end result will probably be worse | than what we have today, but that will not stop it from | happening. they will figure out how to be good enough | vincentmarle wrote: | I agree with you in principle but having worked a lot | with cheaper contractors overseas, in practice you are | often wasting time and money. | cupofpython wrote: | yes today. overseas is still behind on raw skill. they | will catch up, and SWE does not promote complicated work | - it does the opposite. it promotes the simplest code | that works, because that makes it easiest to maintain. | sirmarksalot wrote: | I suspect you've never been a technical liaison to an | offshore team. I believe your vision is to replace all | satisfying work with soul-crushing work. If all your work | is done by people who don't want to work there, including | the supervisors, then what kind of quality can your | company expect? | cupofpython wrote: | >I believe your vision is to replace all satisfying work | with soul-crushing work. If all your work is done by | people who don't want to work there | | I am hesitant to believe what I think you are implying | here. Do you think everyone in cheaper countries would | prefer to live in more expensive countries? Even if | provided a stable income far above everyone in their | area? | | I also dont know what would be soul-crushing? It's doing | what we do here, just over there. | MathCodeLove wrote: | I question the bias of your sample. Almost every one I've | known who possesses any self-taught coding knowledge has | gotten there specifically because they don't buy the | "wage slavery" narrative and wanted a valuable skill. I'm | from a very low income community and family so I imagine | that if the type of person you're claiming exists were so | predominant I'd have run into at least a few of them. | goshx wrote: | You can find my sample in a website called zone-h.org | where most of them used it as a playground lol | treeman79 wrote: | Most I've known do it for the lols. This trait makes them | really bad at holding down a good job. | jeroenhd wrote: | They certainly can cause a lot of chaos. In fact, I'd say | that most malicious chaos normal internet users may be | subjected to is done by these scriptkiddies. | | Theres a difference, though, between an extensive ransomeware | attack and an experiment by a bunch of amateurs. The chance | of key recovery is much greater if there are dedicated | criminals behind the attack, but amateurs also don't get the | widespread reach that the media coverage might suggest. | | I think the characterization of scriptkiddies as hopeless | people is a bit romantic. I was something of a skiddie when I | was young and I think a lot of their behaviour can be | attributed to teenage recklessness. | | The former USSR certainly has their fair share of | scriptkiddies but they're around in every country. When the | USSR was still around, the west had its fair share of | phreakers that developed into the hacker subculture and | established the code of honour that evolved into the | cybersecurity communities of today. | zitterbewegung wrote: | What if this ransomware infects a hospital ? Then it can | kill people. | SQueeeeeL wrote: | What if a group of serious hackers infects a hospital... | that place should probably be pen tested substantially | throwaway1777 wrote: | They are pen tested. Now same question, what happens when | the ransomware infects a hospital? | eitland wrote: | Has happened before. | | Responsibility always lies on those who created the | malware. | | But also on hospital IT if they didn't take precautions. | _jal wrote: | > But also on hospital IT | | Hospital IT soaks in a special set of impossible choices. | | Vendors lock them to insecure OSes and inflexible | contracts. Regulations are equally inflexible. In | general, security is in tension with providing patient | care, especially in emergency situations. And all this | stuff is super expensive, which means making do with old | gear in a lot of places. | | I am in no way defending incompetence. But the reality is | grim. | zitterbewegung wrote: | Yea it's not like a MRI machine you bought only uses | Windows XP | uni_rule wrote: | Their ability to hold back infrastructure updates for old | but still functional equipment is government tier. | mechanical_bear wrote: | What if the moon were your car and Jupiter your | hairbrush? | throwaway576 wrote: | kodah wrote: | There's a line in the guidelines that touches on the nature | of this comment. | | Since you have 1 karma: | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html | throwaway576 wrote: | Appreciate your concern and goodwill. | | When I see sweeping, often incorrect generalizations, I | will respond. | | His statement in the parenthesis seemed unnecessary. I | wanted to point out that his premise could also be | applicable to the gunslingers. | | Now, watch my karma go negative ;) | kodah wrote: | I mean, you're trying to create an off-topic thread on a | topic you know will be divisive. No need to sugar coat | that you're going out of your way to harm the community. | [deleted] | throwaway576 wrote: | I'm holding up a mirror to the community. No intention to | harm. | | Some won't like what they see. | | -\\_(tsu)_/- | kodah wrote: | That may be what you're telling yourself, but that's not | reality. | [deleted] | BurningFrog wrote: | I suspect that much of these "former USSR script kiddies" are | actually the kleptocratic Russian regime. | boredumb wrote: | If only there was universal healthcare, than we wouldn't need | private entities coercing individuals to forfeit parts of their | paychecks to pay for strangers lifestyles, the government would | have rendered that service obsolete! Another win for the free | market? | rafale wrote: | Taxation is coercion. Higher taxation is higher coercion. | | With that being said, the US already spends more on public | healthcare than Canada does, so the problem is a lot more | complex than where should the money come from. | Psillisp wrote: | Patching bullet holes is expensive. | maxerickson wrote: | You can just as well say that property is coercion. Like I | get that you won't agree, but you are asserting a value | system when you do that. | surement wrote: | taking something with the threat of force is not the same | as owning something that you traded for in a mutually | agreed upon transaction | DarylZero wrote: | There still needs to be an initial act of taking by force | to set up the initial ownership, creating the possibility | of trade. | surement wrote: | No, there doesn't. You can own and trade something you | built. That's what remunerated work is. | DarylZero wrote: | You still have to build it out of something. | | An economy of pure traded labor, like trading foot | massages or whatever, wouldn't actually have property. | 9873259735609 wrote: | There are natural resources that nobody created. Using | them to create something is not coercion and results in | property that can be traded for other property or | services. Property can be coercion (e.g. untouched land | claimed by or with the support of the state), but it | doesn't have to be. | DarylZero wrote: | Enacting property rights over those natural resources is | the initial act of coercion that makes trade possible. | | Merely using resources isn't coercion but it doesn't | "result in property" unless you also apply coercion to | exclude others from them. | | (Seems like a pointless word game you're trying to play | here.) | 9873259735609 wrote: | I'm not advocating for property rights over natural | resources. I'm advocating for property rights over | artificial objects created by labour applied to natural | resources. | gus_massa wrote: | I want to build a table, so I chomp a tree. You want to | build a chair, and you chomp another tree. I want to | build another table, so I must walk a longer distance to | find a tree. If everyone cut trees, it will get harder to | find one. | | Another person want to build a music instrument. He need | some special kind of tree, with some specific size and | age, so he want all of us to not cut _that_ tree. Does he | make a fence to protect the tree while it 's growing? | Does he hire a bodyguard for the tree? | | Hunter-gathering is coercion-free unless someone other | group want hunter-gathering in the same place. An once | farmer arrive, it gets more complicated. | 9873259735609 wrote: | > I want to build a table, so I chomp a tree. You want to | build a chair, and you chomp another tree. I want to | build another table, so I must walk a longer distance to | find a tree. If everyone cut trees, it will get harder to | find one. | | No coercion here. There is no force or threats of | violence involved in these scenarios. Imposing a negative | externality on someone is not necessarily coercion. | | > Another person want to build a music instrument. He | need some special kind of tree, with some specific size | and age, so he want all of us to not cut that tree. Does | he make a fence to protect the tree while it's growing? | Does he hire a bodyguard for the tree? | | That would likely be coercion. Unless he planted the | tree, or acquired it by consensual means from its | previous owner, he doesn't have any more right to the | tree than anyone else. Although, I don't think it would | be as bad as if he had taken the tree from someone who | had already cut it down because in that case he would | have deprived them of the product of the labour that went | into cutting the tree down as well. | maxerickson wrote: | The claim that the act of creation gives you exclusive | rights can be coercion in a value system that doesn't | care about the act of creation (or just cares less about | it than things like mutual agreement about what to do | with the commons). | 9873259735609 wrote: | I think it's self-evident that a person should not be | deprived of what they create without their consent. I'm | not sure what you mean by "mutual agreement", but I | assume you don't mean that literally, as there would be | no conflict and no need for any kind of ethical theory in | a situation where everyone agrees. | maxerickson wrote: | That's what I'm trying to get at, those things aren't | self evident, they are a value system. | didibus wrote: | Property is enforced by the government and its social | contract exactly the same way that taxation is. | | You didn't actually agree in a mutual contract with | everyone when you "traded" your property, except for the | agreements the government upholds with its system of laws | that forms the social contract and taxation is a clause | in that contract. | maxerickson wrote: | My point is that it's perfectly valid to argue that | ownership itself is coercive. | surement wrote: | I don't think you understand what coercive means | buttercraft wrote: | If multiple people want to own the same thing, how do | they "decide" who gets it? | px43 wrote: | > With that being said, the US already spends more on public | healthcare than Canada does | | That's because it's mostly all going to predatory insurance | and drug companies rather than to doctors and other medical | professionals. Universal healthcare cuts out all the needless | middlemen and and incentivizes governments to put reasonable | caps on the profits of drug companies. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-05-27 23:00 UTC)