[HN Gopher] In praise of the humble Sheffield stand
___________________________________________________________________
In praise of the humble Sheffield stand
Author : _dain_
Score : 172 points
Date : 2022-05-29 19:05 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (twitter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
| wffurr wrote:
| City of Cambridge, Massachusetts, effectively requires Sheffield
| stands as suitable bike parking:
| https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/CDD/Transportation...
|
| A handful of the other types, e.g. the lampposts, get called out
| as acceptable as well.
|
| I should bring up a few dozen of those and distribute them to
| various retailers around the city...
| pkulak wrote:
| So, which is the Sheffield Stand? The first one?
| blamazon wrote:
| Yes. It looks like a big staple.
| [deleted]
| dang wrote:
| Url changed from
| https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1493299809574342659, which
| points to this.
|
| It's fine to posts links to alternative views in the thread, but
| please submit the original source (per
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
| tasuki wrote:
| But... Twitter is unreadable! I get all these weird popups and
| it requires enormous amounts of effort just to follow the
| thread.
|
| We probably can't fix Twitter. Would it be possible to
| reconsider the guidelines to allow for alternative views of
| websites that have absolutely atrocious usability?
| deadbunny wrote:
| I've never had this issue with Twitter threads. Granted I'm
| signed in and viewing with Firefox + ad blocker.
| _dain_ wrote:
| My bad, I thought I was being helpful since people complain
| about Twitter threads all the time.
| spencerflem wrote:
| I really like this style of bike racks:
| https://www.wuft.org/news/files/2019/10/ElectricScooter-1024...
|
| (Don't know the name)
|
| It lets two fit in next to each other by raising the wheel of
| one, and the wheel locks means it just slots in so nicely. Plus a
| raised part for the lock
| cgrealy wrote:
| They're also great for ruining disc brakes.
| ghostly_s wrote:
| And impossible to lock your frame except with a useless cable.
| Jolter wrote:
| Page unreadable on an iPhone (tried both Safari and Firefox). All
| the images are blank... Any advice?
| saila wrote:
| The images don't load for me on desktop Firefox, but I can see
| them when I view the thread on Twitter. They seem to be blocked
| on Thread Reader because they're classified by Firefox as
| "Social Tracking."
| forrestthewoods wrote:
| Works fine for me. Maybe a content blocker?
| Jolter wrote:
| Ah, yes. I forgot I had enabled Firefox Focus as content
| blocker, for some reason. It must have a rule for Twitter
| images or something. Thanks!
| _dain_ wrote:
| Twitter link:
| https://twitter.com/BrixtonHatter/status/1493299809574342659
|
| Alternate ad-free lightweight frontend:
| https://nitter.net/BrixtonHatter/status/1493299809574342659
| mrsuprawsm wrote:
| For most bike "racks" here in NL it seems like the primary
| purpose is not security, but just having somewhere to lean bikes
| against and give people a sensible place to park their bikes (as
| opposed to "in a huge pile")
|
| Most people don't bother physically locking their regular city
| bikes to anything (only using a ring lock on the bike itself),
| primarily cheap beater bikes but also there's a guy in my street
| with a EUR2000 Van Moof e-bike that I think is just leaning
| against his front wall.
| Rechtsstaat wrote:
| Yeah, most bikes in NL are not that expensive and/or old, have
| only integrated ring locks and are still not be attractive to
| opportunistic thieves.
|
| Still, I'm glad that most places have proper Sheffield stands
| at most one block away here.
| Ichthypresbyter wrote:
| And if you do want to lock your bike to something immovable,
| the standard seems to be a chain that locks into the ring lock,
| with a loop on the end- which gives you a lot more flexibility
| than a D-lock.
|
| The other factor, though, is that standard Dutch city bikes are
| not designed to be easily dismantled. If you have quick release
| wheels, you want to be able to lock the front wheel as well as
| the frame (and ideally also the rear wheel).
| ghostly_s wrote:
| No one locks their bikes in Japan, either. According to
| Wikipedia this is thanks to "strong policing and general public
| disregard for stolen items." I can certainly say I've never
| heard of a US police department doing anything proactive in
| response to a reported bike theft.
| b4je7d7wb wrote:
| You also have to to do some paperwork for buying a bike. I
| assume you have to transfer ownership when selling, so stolen
| bikes probably cannot really be sold on the open market.
| woodruffw wrote:
| Out of sheer ignorance: what are the implications of not
| having the proper paperwork? Do Japan's street policemen
| take note of suspicious looking bikes and follow up with
| their owners?
| twelvechairs wrote:
| In the UK you absolutely need security - London especially
| anything not held down will be stolen quickly. Battery powered
| jigsaws to go through locks and chains, bikes stripped of
| components, etc. Its a whole different world from the safety of
| NL
|
| Granted some of this is because of a culture of more expensive
| bikes but still if you used a beater bike it wouldnt be safe
| either
| bayindirh wrote:
| IIRC Van Moof bikes have internal security built-in, so you
| can't easily stole one of them on a whim.
|
| Even if your bike cannot be recovered, Van Moof gives you
| another one [0].
|
| [1] also tells that the bike locks automatically when you open
| the kick-stand, and unlocks when you're around.
|
| [0]: https://www.vanmoof.com/en-NL/peace-of-mind
|
| [1]: https://www.vanmoof.com/en-NL/s5
| orbital-decay wrote:
| Sadly, no amount of locking points provides sufficient protection
| against an experienced thief. In London, I've seen some of these
| Sheffield stands cut with an angle grinder.
| wffurr wrote:
| It doesn't have to be perfect; just good enough. You don't have
| to lock up perfectly, just better than the bikes around you.
| And carry insurance and be prepared to replace your bicycle. Or
| just ride beaters.
| levpopov wrote:
| While the overall point of simple racks being better definitely
| stands, the premise that a bike needs two locks is just silly and
| impractical. Get wheel locks for your bikes - pinhead, hexlox (my
| favorite), etc. If your wheels are secured to the frame you just
| need to lock the frame with one lock/chain.
|
| Takes way less time to park and you dont need to lug multiple 5lb
| locks (unfortunately thats how heavy secure locks actually are).
| Rechtsstaat wrote:
| Well, I'd say that two locks are nice to have, if not entirely
| necessary. You can quickly use just the ring lock if you're
| hopping in and out of a store, and get out the larger one to
| lock your frame when you're storing your bike for a longer
| period.
| thrwyoilarticle wrote:
| With wheel locks + 2 D locks you can get around the problem of
| the bike being used as a lever to break a single D lock. It
| also means thieves are less likely to screw with your bike
| trying to take the wheels off.
| aranchelk wrote:
| Pitlock are nice. The day I lost my Pinhead key and opened one
| with a flathead and a hammer in less than a minute was a little
| sobering. They're still better than a quick release.
| levpopov wrote:
| For sure, nothing is 100% secure (and even with multiple
| U-locks an angle grinder will win out after a while). I've
| had a good experience with hexlox so far - they are super
| hard to remove without a key. Haven't had any theft issues in
| multiple years of parking around San Francisco.
| wtch98 wrote:
| This is a very angry person.
|
| He claims he's going to explain why the alternatives are crap.
|
| The first he starts off OK. I've never seen this specific design,
| but fine, you can't securely lock your bike. No explanation on
| what "securely" means (presumably at least two locks, one through
| each wheel)
|
| He talks about "wheel benders", but doesn't explain what makes
| them deserve such a name.
|
| It goes downhill from there. Number 3 his entire argument is
| "kill it with fire".
| woodruffw wrote:
| It's written in the "Twitter voice." The angry tone is clearly
| for humorous effect.
|
| (Also: it's called a "wheel bender" because it can bend your
| wheel. It deserves the name because it does that, sometimes.)
| loeg wrote:
| They're called wheel benders because they bend wheels. Bicycle
| wheels are strong in the direction of ordinary load, but
| relatively fragile being pushed from the side. In that kind of
| rack, it's very easy to apply force to the side of the wheel,
| because that is the only contact point keeping it upright.
| jakear wrote:
| Generally reasonable except:
|
| > Sexy?
|
| > No.
|
| > Doesn't pass the simplicity test and completely unnecessary.
|
| If the only complaints about an "art" style installation are that
| it isn't simple or the absolute minimum, that sounds like a major
| win.
| woodruffw wrote:
| I think the simplicity in question refers to the installation's
| practicality for locking bikes.
| micheljansen wrote:
| In The Netherlands we commonly refer to these as "staples"
| abyssin wrote:
| In French we call them reverted U.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Reverted?
| causality0 wrote:
| I don't understand why many of the stands he calls useless are
| useless. Sure most of them are less economical but as long as
| there's a loop of metal anchored to the ground how is it useless?
| _dain_ wrote:
| They don't work for many bicycle geometries[1]. Small vs large
| frames, small vs large wheels, wide vs narrow tyres, tricycles,
| tandem bikes, cargo bikes, recumbent bikes, hand-cranked bikes
| etc. Also if they are too finicky about the exact way you lock
| the bike (particular orientation, particular lock-point) it can
| be hard to make it work when there are obstacles (such as other
| bikes). The Sheffield stand makes the fewest assumptions.
|
| The "wheel grabber" kinds are particularly useless; thieves
| just detach the wheel or snip the wires and make off with the
| remainder.
|
| [1] I'll give an example: the other week I tried to lock my
| bike to a trapezoid shaped stand, kind of like #13 in the
| thread but longer and without the lower wiggly bit. It was
| perpendicular to a wall, with the tall end towards the wall.
| The diagonal part happened to be _exactly parallel_ with the
| mid-frame of my bike. Since parallel lines do not intersect, I
| would have had to move the bike completely inside the stand in
| order to make a D-lock fit around it, which was precluded by
| the placement next to the wall. I couldn 't put it the other
| way and attach it to the rear chain stays because it would have
| jutted out into the path and obstructed pedestrians. Try as I
| might, I just couldn't make it work. So I just attached it to a
| metal fence ten yards away.
| contravariant wrote:
| You're supposed to fix the frame to the stand, why are you
| just attaching the wheel?
|
| Wheel "grabbers" (usually just called 'fietsenrek') are
| pretty common in the Netherlands, especially the 2 level
| ones, because they allow the greatest number of bikes in a
| small area. This does have some downsides obviously, but in
| the Netherlands 'largest number of bikes' tends to outweigh
| other concerns.
| cranekam wrote:
| > You're supposed to fix the frame to the stand, why are
| you just attaching the wheel?
|
| Because the "wheel grabber" makes it very hard to lock the
| frame as well as the wheel. About all that is possible
| without a long wire (which are generally easy to cut and
| thus inferior to a D-lock) is to get the lock through the
| rear triangle. This assumes you're able to get the bike in
| rear wheel first, of course.
|
| I'd rather find a fence or lamppost over using a wheel
| grabber. I get that density is a concern in the Netherlands
| but it probably isn't outside the local convenience store
| everywhere else.
| causality0 wrote:
| _generally easy to cut and thus inferior to a D-lock_
|
| Is that a serious consideration? Jesus, I had no idea the
| environment in which these were used. I'd be scared to
| leave my house.
| _dain_ wrote:
| > You're supposed to fix the frame to the stand, why are
| you just attaching the wheel?
|
| Are we talking about the same kind? I mean these pieces of
| junk:
| https://twitter.com/PPushbike/status/1511404994007900160
| contravariant wrote:
| That one is positioned weirdly high (and not to the
| ground) though well within the range of the chain
| attached to the front (which the bike needs to attach
| securely since it seems to be missing a horizontal bar)
| _dain_ wrote:
| Chains are inferior to D-locks, so a stand that doesn't
| work with the latter is a failure. Also as mentioned,
| these kinds can end up damaging the wheel if any torque
| is applied to the bike and it tips over (wind, other
| bikes leaning on it).
|
| And I think the manufacturer really did intend these to
| be mounted to walls rather than the floor. The second
| tweet shows that it's actually hinged, presumably to
| allow the bike to come in at a non-right angle to the
| wall, which wouldn't make any sense at all if it were on
| the ground.
| contravariant wrote:
| What the manufacturer designed these for is irrelevant,
| you asked if it was the one I meant and I indicated how
| its different.
|
| D-locks are inferior to guarded bike sheds so presumably
| we can rule out all other bike stands as failures as
| well? You're free to prefer one option over another but
| if you bring a less versatile lock for your bike you're
| going to have more difficulty securing it and your trade-
| offs aren't the same as everyone else's.
|
| For what it's worth I've never seen or heard someone get
| a wheel damaged by these bike stands. I'm kind of curious
| if it's even realistically possible, any realistic amount
| of force isn't going to do much more than stretch a few
| spokes (in most cases temporarily).
| seszett wrote:
| I don't know about the Netherlands, however here in
| Flanders the two level racks might be common but I think
| I've never seen a bike on the higher level. They're just
| used double spaced, with bikes only on the lower hoops.
| When they're (half-)full people just put their bikes next
| to the racks.
| abyssin wrote:
| And there's the risk of getting a wheel out true if the
| slightest pression is applied to your bike horizontally.
| notatoad wrote:
| Securely locking your bike means locking both wheels and frame
| to the rack. Any rack that doesn't reach all three of those
| things is impossible to securely lock to.
| dividedbyzero wrote:
| Though if your bike isn't expensive or rare and you're in an
| area with tons of such bikes, secure locking isn't all that
| important. Just have some sort of lock so it can't be wheeled
| away inconspicuously. At least that's what everyone here does
| and it seems to work well enough.
| II2II wrote:
| I live in a city where bike theft happens, but you're
| reasonably sure to come back to an intact bike if the frame
| is locked to something attached to the ground. The security
| aspect of the Sheffield stand may not be necessary, but I
| still prefer them. There are a couple of reasons for that.
|
| Spacing is one reason. While you may share a stand with
| someone else, the next stand is going to be two to three
| feet away. I don't have to untangle my bike from other
| bikes, and I don't have to worry about damaging the bike of
| somebody else.
|
| Support is the other reason. Bikes are easy to knock down
| and relatively easy to mangle. There is a reason why the
| article referred to some of the racks as wheel benders. I
| have also seen bikes that were mangled by cars after
| falling onto the street. That's not a concern with the
| Sheffield stand.
| causality0 wrote:
| This isn't a question of a sufficiently long lock cable?
| cgrealy wrote:
| I think that, in practice, locking the frame and rear wheel
| is enough to deter most bike thieves.
|
| Yes, they could steal the front wheel, but it's hardly worth
| the effort. It's difficult to sell, and you can't get away
| quickly.
| jmclnx wrote:
| I have never seen a Sheffield stand where I live, but far better
| than what we have. The only way to lock a bike to the ones here
| is to take up 5 or 6 lock points since these are designed only to
| lock your wheel to them. Have a ulock ? Find a sign.
| saila wrote:
| Not sure what kind of racks you have but for some back-in
| parking might be easier than front-in. I try to lock one of the
| back tubes and wheel if possible.
|
| I'm also a fan of the Sheldon Brown lockup strategy[1]. There's
| also a modified version that may be more secure[2].
|
| [1] https://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html
|
| [2] http://www.802bikeguy.com/2011/07/the-modified-sheldon-
| brown...
| stereoabuse wrote:
| I too use this Sheldon Brown style but, because my main NYC
| commute bicycle has quick release front and back, I pop off
| my front wheel and position it adjacent to the rear one so
| the u-lock can go around both as well as the the stand (which
| is more than likely a parking sign post). Takes 5 seconds,
| saves me carrying a second lock, and no wheels stolen in 15
| years of Manhattan and Brooklyn cycling!
| pkdpic wrote:
| > known as the "Sheffield rack" or "Sheffield stand" after the
| city of Sheffield in England where these were pioneered
| [wikipedia]
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_parking_rack
|
| Just in case anyone was interested in the etymolology.
|
| Also they used to make bike racks out of wood? Sick (?!)
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_parking_rack#/media/...
|
| PS I loved this post and I agree completely. Bike rack
| opinionation achieved.
| tasuki wrote:
| I'm a bit of a cycling enthusiast _and_ have lived in wonderful
| Sheffield. Yet I 've never heard about this being called
| "Sheffield stand". Very excited to learn :)
| _dain_ wrote:
| (Submitter)
|
| It makes me think that we ought to retire the phrase "reinvent
| the wheel". There's lots of different kinds of wheels and it
| doesn't seem crazy that you would need to make a new kind. And
| when people do make new kinds of wheel, they generally meet some
| minimum bar of worthiness (rather than being say, square).
|
| But I've never seen any improvement to the classic Sheffield
| stand, save possibly for the sub-variety with the extra bar
| underneath. Yet industrial designers insist on inflicting their
| patently inferior "innovations" onto long-suffering cyclists.
| Especially irksome when it happens in my own city of ...
| Sheffield! So maybe we should say "reinvent the Sheffield stand"
| :)
| trollied wrote:
| Hello fellow Sheffielder :)
| _dain_ wrote:
| eyup
| snalty wrote:
| there's dozens of us!
| hprotagonist wrote:
| don't reinvent the pneumatic tire or the saddle, either :)
| nicklaf wrote:
| You'll see these stands [0] at Stanford and UC Davis, and they
| seem pretty good.
|
| (Although I made the mistake of locking up a nice LeMond bicycle
| at Stanford with a cable lock and it was stolen in broad
| daylight. [1])
|
| [0] https://www.groundcontrolsystems.com/product/undergrad-
| wheel...
|
| [1] https://bikeindex.org/bikes/49705
| _false wrote:
| The ones my apartment block has installed can be simply
| unscrewed.
| Cockbrand wrote:
| In general, the author is right, and the simple design is by far
| the best. But the classic Sheffield stand with a circular cross
| section can be easily cut with a pipe cutter. Contrary to an
| angle grinder, a pipe cutter doesn't make any noise. Thus, the
| design has been improved by making it solid instead of hollow and
| giving it a rectangular cross section, like [1]. I used to hate
| the improved design because it's obviously less friendly to a
| nice bike's paint job until I learned the reasoning behind it.
|
| [1] https://www.thieme-
| stadtmobiliar.com/de/produkte/fahrradstae...
| [deleted]
| Cockbrand wrote:
| That said, there are also a lot of similar and different
| designs as recommended by the largest German bicycle lobby
| organization [1].
|
| I'd be curious to know what designs engineers from the
| Netherlands or Denmark have come up with.
|
| [1] https://www.adfc.de/artikel/adfc-empfohlene-
| abstellanlagen-g...
| kickingvegas wrote:
| On the topic of bike racks, if you live in San Francisco you can
| request SFMTA to install one. https://www.sfmta.com/getting-
| around/bike/bike-parking#Reque...
| Symbiote wrote:
| Several of the "useless" ones are very common in Copenhagen,
| where bikes often aren't locked to the stand at all.
|
| My bike is in the third type right now, and will use the fourth
| at work tomorrow.
|
| (Of course, the point remains that these aren't suitable in
| England.)
| notatoad wrote:
| Note: The twitter OP has put the #/n indicator in-between the
| caption and the photo. Which makes sense on Twitter, but when
| threadreader strips out the formatting it makes it look like the
| captions line up with the wrong image.
|
| Captions precede the corresponding images in this thread.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Strange example of a Twitter thread that is less readable when
| turned into a blog post!
| IshKebab wrote:
| I 100% agree. I have never found a bike stand design as good as
| the simple staple.
|
| One particularly annoying thing is stands designed to hold a
| larger number of bikes, often by lifting bikes and hanging them
| or something equally annoying.
|
| They all end up putting the bikes way too close so in practice
| people only use every other space and you fit even fewer bikes
| in.
|
| The staple design is just by far the best.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| Those staples work well; plenty of those in the Netherlands. One
| alternative that works fairly well is this fixed post thingy:
|
| https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Fixed_bo...
|
| The clamp for the vertical seat bar is probably what limits this
| to conventional framed bicycles, but the U-ring welded below is
| very useful for attaching the lock as I did on the photograph.
| The big benefit of this one is that the clamp can be closed, and
| that your bicycle is then essentially storm-proof (I would guess
| for at least one Beaufort more than the Sheffield staple).
| blamazon wrote:
| In my car-centric city (southeast USA, population ~125k) when I
| visit private property with no bicycle parking, I try to find the
| owner and offer to install one of these just for the cost of
| materials. The idea being, they can put in another one when they
| see more than one customer on a bicycle at the same time. It's
| very cheap, less than 100 bucks typically as I have the requisite
| tools in my garage to make them from scratch out of metal tubing.
| There's a variety of materials, finishing, and mounting options
| the property owner can choose from. I've done about a dozen of
| them, it makes biking around my city much more pleasant and my
| day is brighter when I see someone else using one.
| soared wrote:
| Many cities will install these in front of businesses for free!
| The business owner just has to submit an application, and local
| bike lobby is paid to install it!
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| To be appropriately secure, these really need installing in
| concrete as shown in the initial tweet. Still, better to have
| one less secure sheffield installed than zero.
| foobiekr wrote:
| If I was an owner, I'd have a lot of problems with this just
| because I'd be worried there'd be some regulation I was
| violating that would get me fined.
| woodruffw wrote:
| If it's on the owner's property, it's probably kosher. Many
| cities have rules about the proximity of bike racks/stands to
| fire hydrants, parking meters, etc., but those generally
| concern public sidewalks.
|
| I say probably because, knowing this country, I am _positive_
| someone can find a municipality that bans storeowners from
| putting bike stands on their property.
| aaronblohowiak wrote:
| all you need is a pipe bender, right?
| ghostly_s wrote:
| I didn't know pipe benders capable of bending 3" dia steel
| tubing were accessible to a garage shop. you also need to
| weld mounting flanges.
| blamazon wrote:
| I have a pipe bender that looks kinda like this but
| sideways and yellow and mounted on a tripod. I bought it
| from a guy who does water-suppression system installs for
| warehouses.
|
| https://www.harborfreight.com/16-ton-hydraulic-pipe-
| bender-6...
| blamazon wrote:
| For the simplest case yes, a way of bending big pipe and some
| way to make two big holes in the ground to then cement the
| thing in. (Or similar) But it quickly gets complicated -
| making smaller holes in concrete type surfaces is easier,
| less intrusive, less permanent than making bigger holes,
| which can lead to the flange method, but then you need some
| way to make or buy flanges, and then stick them onto the
| pipe. I make my own flanges out of plate and weld them on but
| you could go with threaded flanges, I think Home Depot (or
| similar) can thread high diameter pipe for you.
|
| You can also skip the pipe bender by mitering two pipes
| together with a welder or doing like a pie cut thing. I do
| that kind of thing for pipe that's harder to bend - bend it
| to 45deg, miter cut and weld to 90 is a common technique for
| me. If you look up how DIY car exhausts are fabricated
| there's a lot of relevant tricks there. With a grinder and
| some elbow grease you can make it look like it was never
| welded.
|
| For the finishing touch it's nice to have a friend with a
| galvanizing and powder coating shop :)
| dylan604 wrote:
| wlesieutre wrote:
| I think it's more likely they do it because they know
| they're one of relatively few people who has them
| [deleted]
| jeffbee wrote:
| There's an American firm called Forms+Surfaces that has a whole
| catalog full of terrible, weird bike racks. They must have a lot
| of mindshare among architects apparently because their junk keeps
| popping up all over California. Nobody who has ever used a
| bicycle would choose them but they keep showing up anyway. Here's
| a fun tweet where local well-known cyclist rips them out of the
| pavement with his bare hands.
|
| https://twitter.com/prinzrob/status/1230204877491433473
| wffurr wrote:
| Those particular racks don't seem awful other than the way
| they're (not) secured to the pavement.
| jeffbee wrote:
| "Can be permanently secured to the ground" and "Can be
| temporarily secured to a bicycle" are the only two
| requirements!
| woodruffw wrote:
| > Nobody who has ever used a bicycle would choose them but they
| keep showing up anyway.
|
| It's probably a safe bet that, in many municipalities, the city
| planners see cyclists as a nuisance and are solely interested
| in doing what (they think) will shut them up. They also might
| see normal looking bike racks as an eyesore, hence sloppy
| installations combined with useless designs.
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(page generated 2022-05-29 23:00 UTC)