[HN Gopher] Privacy first, open source home automation
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Privacy first, open source home automation
Author : balaji1
Score : 96 points
Date : 2022-05-29 19:31 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.home-assistant.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.home-assistant.io)
| phpisthebest wrote:
| I have been using home assistance for a few years now, having
| migrated from the SmartThings eco system.
|
| Over all I am happy with it, but it is increasingly harder to
| find devices that are not cloud encumbered, even some things that
| have integrations with HA are basically HA interacting with the
| OEM cloud API, which not local control.
|
| I prefer zigbee, but I fear the migration from Zigbee to "Matter"
| is going in the wrong direction, as Amazon and Google are really
| pushing cloud based control over Local Control...
| Nextgrid wrote:
| I use Shelly relays installed behind all my switches to
| automate every single light in the house: https://shelly.cloud.
| As a perk you retain the functionality of the existing light
| switch.
|
| They are reasonably priced, are built with local control as the
| primary feature and there's not even a hint of Silicon
| Valley/VC/"growth & engagement" smell.
| MakeUsersWant wrote:
| I wish there were something that opens the windows automatically
| at the right time to keep the heat* and humidity out. I'm sure
| other people will have had that idea, too. But I haven't come
| across easy-to-use hardware controls. That's not even talking
| about the weather forecast, the heat capacity and heat
| permeability of the walls, and any cigarette smoke coming in.
|
| *Air conditioning is hard to get permission for as a renter in
| Germany.
| dividedbyzero wrote:
| I've been bitten by HA twice now. One time the Pi it was on
| simply slowed to a crawl all of a sudden; killing HA fixed that
| issue, including for large-ish writes to the SD, but that's
| hardly an option. Second time it broke on me it simply started
| throwing tons of errors after an upgrade. Both incidents at a
| time when I had other things to do than spend hours fixing the
| light switches. Also that terrible YAML DSL was a huge pain since
| I need this sort of thing infrequently enough to never remember
| how it works. I definitely can see the appeal but I don't want
| things like light switches to depend on something that flaky.
|
| Currently running an instance of deconz for all the zigbee
| essentials which is a lot less powerful but has been rock solid.
| I have a bunch of Go apps running on the living room Kubernetes,
| one that streams all events from Deconz and a few other sources
| to Kafka running on a Raspberry Pi and a few more that add
| automations that deconz can't do. I'd expected this to be flaky
| as hell, so the apps running there aren't critical, but it's been
| rock solid for over a year even though Kafka isn't even supposed
| to run on ARM.
| kristianpaul wrote:
| " About Home Assistant
|
| Open source home automation that puts local control and privacy
| first. Powered by a worldwide community of tinkerers and DIY
| enthusiasts. Perfect to run on a Raspberry Pi or a local server"
| theshrike79 wrote:
| "Docker image on a server you'll have running somewhere in your
| house anyway" is the correct choice.
|
| Raspi is fine when you're still setting it up, but not worth
| the hassle when it breaks.
| cameronh90 wrote:
| With electricity prices being what they are right now, a
| Raspi using <5W is fantastic for me.
| balaji1 wrote:
| I think an old laptop in the home network would work well
| eternityforest wrote:
| "Run on a raspberry pi" is a little tricky. You seem to need an
| SSD, or else some careful configuration of what to include and
| exclude from logs, if you don't want the disk to corrupt in a
| year or two.
|
| It's a wonderful project but I wish they would be more careful
| about SD wear.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| There must be some way to get at least a SATA SSD onto a
| raspberry without too much hassle.
|
| A cursory google search revealed lots of blogposts, videos
| etc on doing exactly that.
|
| Also, if you're using an Rpi, it's also because you like
| tinkering, so more tinkering could be seen as a bonus :)
| Nextgrid wrote:
| Counterpoint: I've got 2 instances running for several years
| now using their default Raspberry Pi image and still no
| issues.
| alin23 wrote:
| I've just had one SD card with HomeAssistant on it, fail on
| me last week after a power cut. It's easy to fall into this
| fallacy of "it's been working fine until now, so it will
| keep working", I had the same thinking.
|
| Luckily I was doing restic [1] backups daily to my Hetzner
| box, and my last HA backup was there, so I didn't have to
| start from scratch. But it's still annoying to have to buy
| another SD, flash it and find a way to restore the backup
| just to get your home running again.
|
| [1] https://restic.net/
| alerighi wrote:
| Always seamed to me overengineered. Maybe is because I'm
| skeptical about automations, and I like physical buttons, one
| button that does something, and automations made in solid and
| reliable ways (such as mechanical relays for example). But if I
| need something "smart", and I have a couple of devices in my
| house, with a couple of automations (basically for laziness, not
| something I couldn't have done by pulling some extra wires and
| with mechanical timers and relays), I do them in the most simple
| and clean solution.
|
| Now all the automations rely on a local MQTT server where my
| devices connects to an a ~300 lines python program, that
| communicates with the MQTT server and applies all the
| automations, and also exposes a simple REST API to do things with
| a simple `curl` if I need so. Everything (MQTT server and python
| script) runs on my home router that has OpenWRT on it. I find it
| simpler to express automations with code than with complex web
| interfaces or yaml configuration files that are as complex as a
| program.
| cjkarr wrote:
| I wanted to jump in and praise this project. After INSTEON
| suddenly shut down last month, I was able to set up Home
| Assistant and restore control to the perfectly functional network
| of devices orphaned by their makers.
|
| Great work, all!
| minton wrote:
| I want to want this, but I have never found a use case that made
| it seem worth it.
| pottertheotter wrote:
| I'm the same--I have several smart lights, but I can control
| them all through Google Home--but found a use for it this past
| winter. In my living room I have a Big Ass Fans Haiku fan, and
| the signal for volume up on my soundbar is the same as speed
| down on the fan. I don't know how companies decide on IR remote
| signals, but I've never had this happen before.
|
| It really annoys me when I turn up the volume and my fan turns
| off, especially in winter when I want it on to stir up the air.
| So I set up an automation to check the fan setting and if it is
| off, turn it on.
|
| So far I haven't really figured out what else to do with it.
| contravariant wrote:
| I think the main use case is avoiding non-open source
| alternatives.
|
| If you want something that actually offers more capability then
| something like node-red is probably more useful, it allows
| scripting all kinds of custom behaviour over many different
| protocols. (although even then it's rare to find a _real_ use
| for it, besides having fun hacking things together, though they
| make it easy to build your own UI for stuff, which is neat)
| strombofulous wrote:
| I agree, I feel like it's only for niche uses. But if you have
| a niche requirement it can be very useful - I have issues with
| my ISP provided modem and they won't replace it. I use HA to
| locally power cycle the modem's plug from my phone (my router
| still works so local networking is fine)
| humanistbot wrote:
| Very frequently discussed on HN:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=home-assistant.io
| snapetom wrote:
| This whole submission seems like a karma grab.
| alin23 wrote:
| I've been using a Pi 4 with Home Assistant for the last 2 years,
| but I've accumulated so many devices in its dashboard that just
| turning a light off felt too cumbersome.
|
| Sure, I've automated everything I could, but humans are not
| predictable so I often need to adjust brightness or volume of
| some device.
|
| I had some keyboard shortcuts in BetterTouchTool using the HA
| REST API but it felt too fragile. In the end I created my own app
| to make this easier, called Volum (https://lowtechguys.com/volum)
|
| It gives you macOS keyboard shortcuts and a really simple UI on
| iOS and iPadOS to control your HA devices and it's completely
| free if you want to try it.
|
| I've also made a short unprofessional demo video here about it:
| https://youtu.be/nzz-xrEon7g
| Nextgrid wrote:
| I use Home Assistant purely as an automation server and as a
| gateway between different (incompatible) ecosystems. Entities
| that need manual control are exported over HomeKit and
| controlled using any Apple device. I use HomeControl for easy
| access to all devices in the macOS menu bar:
| https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/homecontrol-menu-for-
| homekit/i....
| pkulak wrote:
| Home Assistant really is about home "automation", not home
| "buttons now on your phone". I have dozens of automations in my
| Home Assistant install and I only interact with Home Assistant
| when I'm updating it or screwing with the automations
| themselves.
|
| In the morning, depending on the weather, both of my floors set
| to heat, cool or heat/cool. The lights adjust to a cool
| temperature, fully on. Maybe the lawn gets watered, if it
| hasn't rained in a while and won't soon (I live in the PNW, so
| that one doesn't trigger often, haha). At sunset the lights
| adjust again, and finally most of them turn off at 9pm and the
| hvac system again adjusts, depending on the weather. The lights
| and shades in the media room adjust when the TV turns on. And a
| million other things that I won't bother to type out. But the
| point is, it all Just Happens, and I go to great lengths to
| keep it that way. If manual control is needed, just flip the
| switch or turn the thermostat.
| alin23 wrote:
| Yes, I can go on about my automations in the same way, it
| does feel like a magical home sometimes :)
|
| But when I have guests and we need more light for a board
| game, or when the automation didn't work as expected and
| lights are still off at sunset or the blinds got stuck at
| midpoint, or the heat is still too high and I'm already in
| bed etc. there's a real need for fast and effortless manual
| control.
|
| I'm now investing in Zigbee switches and knobs to have more
| physical means for controlling the home, but in my engineer
| mind, an app made more sense at the time.
|
| I spend most of my time on my keyboard laptop anyway, why not
| use it for dimming the lights, or adjusting the speaker
| volume.
| some-human wrote:
| > there's a real need for fast and effortless manual
| control.
|
| On iOS i just pull down the control centre from the clock
| and it shows my most 6 most used home assistant things (a
| few lights, temp and door lock). HomeKit Bridge, I think is
| the integration that provides that.
|
| It provides essentially the same UI as your app, without
| any app needed, and allows for "hey siri, turn on the
| hallway light" too.
| ghostpepper wrote:
| I realized that I don't turn my lights on/off at the same
| time consistently enough for automation to be worthwhile.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| IMO if you're using the dashboard to adjust something you
| haven't really automated anything, you just moved the physical
| buttons to a dashboard.
|
| The dashboard should be for setting larger scenes.
|
| Example: If you want to watch a movie, you should either be
| able to say something to your digital assistant of choice or
| press a single physical/digital button. That automatically sets
| the lights correctly, closes any blinds and turns on all AV
| equipment needed.
| alin23 wrote:
| Don't you ever need to step out of the automation predefined
| values sometimes?
|
| I do have most of my house automated, but my pain point is in
| those rare moments when I need to do something that doesn't
| fit anymore in my predicted automation.
|
| I said it in a previous comment as well, but I'll give some
| more personal examples here: 1. We have
| friends coming and we need more light for a board game
| 2. My wife wants to sew some new clothing creation and needs
| bright white lights for short periods of time 3. Sun is
| still very bright at sunset but HA already turned on the
| lights (I kinda like the sunset natural light, and want to
| enjoy it without artificial lighting. I have a light sensor
| for this situation but it's hard to get it right) 4. I
| want to change volume of a speaker but I'm not using the
| device playing the music 5. I want to get the blinds
| higher/lower without getting out of bed
|
| I'm not saying everyone needs my app, of course. I made it
| for myself, and just decided to share it with the world, in
| case there are other people sharing my pain points.
| some-human wrote:
| I still don't see why you're not exposing these devices to
| Homekit in Home Assistant so that they show up natively on
| your Apple devices in the control centre? Having my smart
| speaker volume control next to my iPhone's volume control
| just makes sense for that? Same for quick access to lights?
| Just pull down from the clock and tap to turn on/off
| specific lights, or have sliders next to the iPhone
| brightness slider for lights with brightness granularity. I
| don't see what an app adds to that?
| dheera wrote:
| I do agree it needs better default widgets. Like when turning a
| brightness dial it's easy to accidentally scroll the page.
|
| It's also insanely cumbersome to use things like circadian
| lighting at the moment, which I use extensively since my
| apartment doesn't that much sunlight. It requires editing a
| YAML file, which requires installing some editor plugin, which
| requires supervisor mode, which required a full reinstall as a
| VM because I'm an idiot and installed the docker version of HA
| at first. And then figuring out how the hell to get a VM to
| start at startup in headless mode. And then fumbling for hours
| with how to install HACS and other things.
|
| But yeah, it's nice for open source standards.
| throwaway_ha wrote:
| eternityforest wrote:
| I tried setting up HA once on non-docker and it was pretty
| awful. It has it's own internal dependency management thingy
| that auto downloads stuff it needs into it's virtual
| environment.
|
| Much as I love to use standard off the shelf stuff and
| eliminate original code from my life, my custom automation
| system has been the one thing I can't find a replacement for,
| and I don't really expect that to change.
| [deleted]
| privacyking wrote:
| They just don't want it to be repackaged with patches that
| cause them to receive support requests for issues which are
| essentially a distro fault
| snapetom wrote:
| They don't want you forking it for that purpose, either.
|
| https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326
|
| Is it technically open source? Yes. Is it spiritually open
| source? No. Is it arrogance and poor management? Along with
| many ways this project is run, absolutely yes.
| throwaway_ha wrote:
| Use it but not modify it? With that attitude it can't even be
| classified as Open Source.
|
| Hard pass.
| deadbunny wrote:
| I quite like Home Assistant, I really don't like their
| developers.
|
| https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/126326
|
| https://community.home-assistant.io/t/local-dns/178108
| snapetom wrote:
| Used it for five years. You've distilled the all the problems
| of HA nicely to its source. The product is fine for a while,
| until the arrogance and disregard the devs have against the
| user base inevitably breaks something and you have to spend
| time fixing things. And it happens often.
|
| Edit: Just went through the DNS thread. Good lord. Just their
| typical M.O. on breaking things in the past.
| ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
| It's not reasonable to ask people to remove your code from
| their project when they've already done the work on integrating
| it and it's published under an accommodating license.
|
| As for the DNS issue that seems to be a technical or design
| issue, I don't see in that thread any bad behaviour on the part
| of the devs, unless I missed a post.
| snapetom wrote:
| > As for the DNS issue that seems to be a technical or design
| issue, I don't see in that thread any bad behaviour on the
| part of the devs, unless I missed a post.
|
| The whole thread brings back PTSD when I was running it. It
| is reminiscent of every major problem they've had.
|
| > seems to be a technical or design issue
|
| This is the exact issue. The head devs don't keep
| contributors in line or provide any guidance at all. People
| just submit things, there's no checks on "is this a good
| idea?" and into master it goes. Does anyone actually want
| this? Does it make sense on how it's implemented? Will it
| break anything?
|
| Those are questions for later.
| mindslight wrote:
| Human factors aside, pragmatically this is exactly why the
| story of just getting Home Assistant running is such a dumpster
| fire. Sure if you stick it on a dedicated RPi with their
| prebuilt image or use Docker, it "just works" [0]. But if I
| can't apt-get or environment.systemPackages it, it's not really
| a sustainable for my setup.
|
| [0] I gave in and actually had it running with Docker for some
| time. Eventually it just got real laggy and stopped responding
| to input or device state changes promptly. I had no idea why
| that would have been, and had no desire to wade through Docker
| manure to figure out how to debug it, so my setup just kind of
| fell by the wayside. Now when I think "home automation would be
| nice to have again", I envision just writing my own mqtt-native
| daemons some day.
| entropy47 wrote:
| I'm a nobody and even I have had run-ins with certain people on
| the project. I think they have a similar problem to many hugely
| popular FOSS authors - you spend 99.99% of the day explaining
| things to idiots who don't get why things are the way they are,
| so when the 0.01% of useful, constructive issues float past
| they get written off by habit.
|
| I personally think some of their leaders also have an over-
| reliance on gut reaction - have never once seen them admit to
| being wrong, even on multi year issues where context has
| changed. I think a useful litmus test for anybody in a position
| of power is "when did I last change my mind". If the answer is
| "never", either you're perfect or you need to think about how
| you've been making decisions.
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