[HN Gopher] Firefly III: A free and open-source finance manager ___________________________________________________________________ Firefly III: A free and open-source finance manager Author : yessirwhatever Score : 100 points Date : 2022-05-30 17:48 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.firefly-iii.org) (TXT) w3m dump (www.firefly-iii.org) | erulabs wrote: | Firefly III is excellent - there was a lot of excitement for | Actual budget the other week (which is also excellent) but | firefly has been a solid self hosted finance tool for years. | | We have a one click installer for kubernetes over at | https://kubesail.com/template/erulabs/firefly-iii if anyone is | interested in self hosting this! | yessirwhatever wrote: | I found out about Firefly III a couple of weeks ago and wanted | to try, but it seemed a bit more than what I needed. That's | when I found out about Actual, which does seem to be an | interesting solution. My issue with it is that they seem to | have made the web version (intentionally?) not compatible with | mobile, and their iPhone app requires a subscription of ~$10 a | month. At first I thought I'd give it a try then felt sort of | cheated. I don't mind paying for a solution but this seems like | a shady way to charge money for me. Also I'm not a fan of | subscription. | | Anyway, I gave Firefly III a try and now I'm very happy that I | did. I think those extra features that seemed too complicated | at first are proving to be pretty useful. | wolverine876 wrote: | Are there FOSS libraries that handle common financial | functionality and do it reliably? Are these FOSS applications all | reinventing the wheel? | kkfx wrote: | Honestly seems a bit confusing to me... | | The dashboard is a bit configurable, ok, so I can cut things I do | not want but a default with just balance/all translations | scrollable, the latest visible/stock option with mean price paid | and actual value, optional widgets for other financial means (raw | materials and their value, currencies etc) would be far nicer | than a big load of graphs... | | Ease to add transactions is not much a thing since at least | personally all must come from external sources like bank exports | in ofx/qif/ _sv etc with manually just tagging, description etc | and a merging feature for upcoming transactions when the date is | due to merge them with the actual new entry from the bank, so | better import /export (i.e. woob integration for banks who do not | offer exporting) would be very nice. | | Generally graphs are nice but data in tabular form + operations | on such tables are much more useful, especially if can be done | with a programming language like "hey, that's the table, now you | can generate new ones with some query language and lisp/python/_ | as you wish, just add a "programmed entry" and you get input in | _sv form for code, SQL-alike for query DSL, output view as a | table for_ sv data or graph or raw at your option. | | Surely the last paragraph might not appeal end users, but a user | who self-host likely use/can use/dream such features... | anthropodie wrote: | Another finance manager recently open sourced | https://actualbudget.com/ | xthrowawayxx wrote: | This is great! I've been using Firefly III for years. However it | consumes a good chunk of time to keep up to date at a line item | resolution with many cards and accounts across countries as I've | not automated any of it. | jendnd wrote: | This project is great, but damn it slows down with just a few | years worth of data. :( | xupybd wrote: | Very impressive tool. | | I've always used the approach of allocating spending before it's | spent. I've not attempted expense tracking. Has anyone got | experience with it, and an opinion to share? | toyg wrote: | Looks good but the real problem, as for 90% of similar programs, | is the volume of necessary data-entry. Paid-for options like | YNAB, nowadays, can fetch transactions from many mainstream US/EU | banks and credit providers. Without that sort of feature, it's a | real drudge to keep up entering every single expense. | BeetleB wrote: | Not sure about Firefly, but I use KMyMoney. Is there a bank/CC | where you can import via YNAB and _not_ via KMyMoney and | similar software? | emiller88 wrote: | Agreed. I've found https://lunchmoney.app/ really nice. | wolverine876 wrote: | As of several years ago, banks would provide csv files of | transactions to customers. That's still more work than the paid | options, but much less than individual transactions. | | I suppose something like Firefly could create a module (or even | sell one) that is preconfigured, and updated, with the best | method for each bank - download csv, api, scrape, etc. In fact, | they could charge for that service and fund development. | scotttopic wrote: | I look at this from the opposite perspective. Seven years of | YNAB4 trained me to include manual entry of every transaction, | assigning categories, splitting it as necessary, etc right | there at the moment I make the purchase. It's baked into my | process, as that was one of the core components that the old | YNAB taught. At this point I could never trust an automated | system for everyday purchases, where it couldn't accurately | know how to split transactions, or where to assign things | (although scheduled bills I do input as recurring transactions | so to an extent I do have some automation). | | For example, take a trip to Walmart where you purchased things | that cross like 3 or 4 categories. With a system relying on | importing data from your bank, a couple days after the | transaction posts you'll have this generic assignment to | Walmart, and you must then try and remember how to split it (eg | between Groceries, Clothes, Technology etc). Instead, I have my | transaction manually sorted in my YNAB app before I've even | left the store. | rmesters wrote: | Here's two free solutions you can use for bank data sync | (Nordigen & Saltedge): https://docs.firefly-iii.org/data- | importer/install/nordigen-... | ywain wrote: | Unfortunately neither of these work in the US. Salt Edge | supposedly supports US banks but when I reached out to them a | few weeks ago (specifically for the purpose of using them | with Firefly III) this was their reply: | | > We regret to inform you that temporarily Salt Edge does not | provide its services on the USA market. | _zoltan_ wrote: | now you know how I feel when I want to use some US bases | service. | | in theory interactive brokers could link in my accounts but | since I'm based in Switzerland this doesn't work. Sad. :) | Buttons840 wrote: | Most of these work be giving the application your bank | credentials, right? This probably violates the terms and | conditions of your bank and gives the application unrestricted | access to your account. | PandawanFr wrote: | Afaik most use something like Plaid which works with the | banks to get this data appropriately. | encryptluks2 wrote: | Plaid does the opposite. It scrapes using your banks | credentials. | smeej wrote: | Am I totally misremembering this, or is it a fairly | recent change? | | I could've sworn several years ago it was perfectly | possible to use your sign-in credentials, then | immediately change them, because it basically needed an | authorization token, but then worked fine. | | Now it doesn't. I work for a company with a Plaid | integration and if the bank so much as requires any kind | of 2FA, you just can't use it at all anymore. | encryptluks2 wrote: | I'm not sure. It is possible that some banks have an API | that Plaid uses, but this issue has been known for | several years and discussed on here quite a bit. Plaid | even had a large settlement due to privacy violations. | rmesters wrote: | Depends. There's a bunch of providers (eg Yodlee) that ask | for bank credentials (previously on HN | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18655712) Akoya in US | and most European providers use real bank APIs. | balaji1 wrote: | The workaround for data entry I have in hledger are a few csv | import scripts for various sources of txn info, but I still | have to manually edit the imported data sometimes. So still | would prefer something that can auto-import transactions. The | other thing I have done is close a few accounts to simplify | this process. | linux2647 wrote: | Not to mention the companion mobile apps that companies like | YNAB provide. It'd be nice to have something self-hosted and | hackable, but my spouse won't want to use it unless the mobile | app is good | candiddevmike wrote: | If you're looking for budgeting like old YNAB and a general | household management solution, checkout Homechart: | https://homechart.app | BbzzbB wrote: | I listened to a talk by YNAB's creator last year (about | development not the program itself). Didn't realize until this | thread how popular it is. | __michaelg wrote: | Side note: If you need to say this: | | > (click on the icons for more information) | | then you almost certainly have an unintuitive design and know it, | but instead of fixing it you just doubled down on it. | prepend wrote: | I noticed this and thought it was quite odd. I thought the | icons were weird screenshots because they were so big. | | Comically the message worked and I tapped on them. | | I forgive these kinds of design mistakes in OSS projects | because I'd rather have stuff that works than beautiful sites. | | Of course, I appreciate nice design too. | Xeoncross wrote: | The smallest change I could figure out is just to delete the | single `opacity: 0` line in the CSS for the `.portfolio-item- | caption` | yessirwhatever wrote: | Previous HN Thread [2020]: | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20916920 | balaji1 wrote: | how do Firefly or ActualBudget and the like compare to something | like hledger? | imroot wrote: | It really just depends on how comfortable you are in the | command line. If you know how to get your transactions | downloaded from your bank and don't ever want to leave the | command line, hledger is great for you -- I've been using | hledger since 2019 and love every minute of it. | | If you need something point and click, or, need a high "wife- | acceptance factor," firefly-iii is not a bad choice. | | After coming from hledger, I did try firefly, but, stuck with | hlegder due to how amazingly powerful it is with nothing but a | text input. | balaji1 wrote: | that's my impression about hledger and the plain text format | as well. So not going to try other tools also. | | Wife acceptance factor tho haha.. we will be fine as long as | we never show the beautiful UIs from the YNABs & Fireflys. | sirsinsalot wrote: | I applaud the effort, but sometimes think apps like this when | they promote self-hosting should have a mode of installation and | operation that acts more or less like a desktop application. | prepend wrote: | They have a docker instal option. Granted it's a bit of | overkill but you can run it like desktop software. | sirsinsalot wrote: | I mean, a windows installer (or RPM) that doesn't require a | background process so that more people can access the value | of the software. Even Flatpak or something if we are talking | Linux specific. | | Having Docker and other "enthusiast" methods of running | software makes it less accessible. Having a web-stack as the | goto method of writing software doesn't make sense if it | limits the audience that would gain value from it. | | I say this as someone who professionally maintains a web | application that comes with a Windows installer, macOS | traditional installation and a Linux RPM. All with desktop | icons and it being pretty invisible to the user that it is a | web application aside from the HTML-looking UI style. | | The software is for personal finance, it isn't for a niche | that makes the install/access method particuarly sane. If it | were software for managing a cluster of X-thing or something | ... maybe. | herdst wrote: | Agree, ive installed this in the past and it was a pain in the | ass. If i ever did budgeting/financial tracking again i would | use a paid option | ocdtrekkie wrote: | FWIW, Firefly III has an old Sandstorm package, but it isn't | currently maintained so it's a fair bit out of date. We aim for | "like installing an app on your phone". | | The problem here is ultimately on the platform your app runs | on, not the app itself. If web servers are hard to spin up, so | too are web apps. | spicyusername wrote: | I would love to explore something other than Mint, but having | 100% of the data collection automated is so nice. | muznar wrote: | I literally had to reinstall this to a new free instance on | Saturday after getting my instance deleted accidentally. | | I have been tracking and exporting backups of my finances using | Firefly since 2020. I am young, my finances are nothing fancy, | they are mostly credit card purchases, my salary, and my rent. | | I love the flexibility of personally serving this on a dedicated | server. Similar to the other commenter it consumes a lot of my | time too. I tried to automate by writing small custom shortcuts | in Apple Shortcuts for repeated things like posting a grocery | purchase. Firefly has a comprehensive API, I have widgets on my | homescreen showing my credit card balances at all times etc. | | I like knowing how much I spend on grocery each month, how much I | spent clothing last year vs this year, the effect of having a | Costco membership. It is fun and I am sure in the next 10 years | it will be so much more interesting looking at data from early | years. | aftbit wrote: | I currently use Mint by Intuit. I hate the new UI, the constant | ads, and the amount of trust I have to give them (with my bank | credentials). I would love to self-host something else that can | auto-import all of my transactions. I'll have to check out | Saltedge and Nordigen. I might also write my own Plaid API | integration. Just as much trust though... | | Open banking data APIs sounds like an easy win for regulators, | but probably the Intuit lobby would oppose that. | bredren wrote: | I am about ready to throw in the towel and use mint. It's the | only product Apple has built a native integration for, with no | news of other products. | | I've written asking about it but nothing. It's pretty annoying | because Apple Card is supposed to offer privacy, then they turn | around and make the first transaction integration with mint. | Wth. | Karawebnetwork wrote: | It seems like someone or something has crashed the demo. | | It outputs an error log. | | Whoops! An error occurred. Unfortunately, this error was not | recoverable :(. Firefly III broke. The error is: | | Could not save preference: SQLSTATE[22001]: String data, right | truncated: 1406 Data too long for column 'data' at row 1 (SQL: | update `preferences` set `data` = | [{"ip":"00.000.00.00","time":"2022-05-30 20:02:06","notified":fal | se},{"ip":"00.000.00.00","time":"2022-05-30 20:02:10","notified": | false},{"ip":"00.000.00.00","time":"2022-05-30 20:02:15","notifie | d":false},{"ip":"00.000.00.00","time":"2022-05-30 | 20:02:16","notified":false}, ... | | My IP was in the list. | | Let's just say it is hard to trust a piece of software with my | financial data after this. | | (I changed all the IP addresses for 00.000.00.00 to preserve some | anonymity.) | sergnio wrote: | Completely agree... | [deleted] | kailanb wrote: | I recently discovered PocketSmith[0] which is not free nor open- | source, but I have found it to be the easiest to keep up to date. | It automatically pulls transactions from most banks and credit | providers, which I've been unable to replicate with other | solutions. | | [0]: https://www.pocketsmith.com/ | skoskie wrote: | It's also one of the few that does a good job of forecasting | balances. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-05-30 23:00 UTC)