[HN Gopher] Eye contact between musicians
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       Eye contact between musicians
        
       Author : bookofjoe
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2022-05-31 20:35 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.classical-music.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.classical-music.com)
        
       | klelatti wrote:
       | The Bernstein clip is fun but for an example of how much a
       | conductor can communicate with their eyes (as well as with
       | supremely expressive physical gestures) there is no better
       | example than Carlos Kleiber. From ecstatic climaxes to sections
       | of extreme relaxation it's a remarkable example of the art of
       | conducting.
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d3-jlAamGCE
        
       | chenxi9649 wrote:
       | We feel more awkwardness in audio calls than video calls and more
       | awk in video calls than physical meetings because at each medium
       | we're losing important contextual cues that act as lubricants to
       | our conversation.
       | 
       | A gentle "slap on knee" while sitting can signal to the other
       | person that you're ready to leave the conversation.
       | 
       | Starring elsewhere while listening can be a sign of "thinking" or
       | "distraction" depending on how your eyes are moving.
       | 
       | In a text-dominant world, where all of these contextual cues are
       | lacking, we tend to interpret people's messages in the most
       | negative way possible. (Snapchat solves this w/ images, teens
       | abuse emojis to solve this, voice msg are becoming more of a
       | thing)
       | 
       | I do think we can incorporate a large chunk of these contextual
       | cues digitally to make digital interactions smoother! Even
       | without VR.
        
         | throwaway290 wrote:
         | Visual interactions offer increased bandwidth in communication,
         | but in a work exchange I find that bandwidth useless to harmful
         | compared to, say, the intricate process of playing musical
         | instruments in more than perfect sync.
         | 
         | Video calls are additionally worse, the extra input is almost
         | pure noise and cannot even help you read the room to show if a
         | person is distracted when their "listen attentively", "glance
         | on their watch" and "just do something else entirely" are
         | exactly the same. I find it much easier to distinguish with
         | pure audio and no distractions.
         | 
         | Having to use video for work makes me feel as if I was in
         | webcam business, though I admit it is useful in more sensitive
         | meetings where you want to visually confirm participants.
        
         | alecst wrote:
         | I feel most awkward in video calls for what it's worth. I find
         | audio really natural.
        
           | saghm wrote:
           | Audio calls mostly just feel like phone calls to me, except
           | without having to hold a phone up to my ear. Even if I'm
           | using Discord or Slack or some company-specific thing, audio
           | calls trigger "muscle memory" that I've built up my whole
           | life. Video calls are much more novel to me; I rarely ever
           | did it before covid, and although it now is a bit more
           | natural, it'll be a long time until it feels as "normal" as
           | audio calls for me.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Gram Parsons talks about eye contact at the end of this classic
       | clip about how he met Emmylou Harris:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BentUYX_OyA
        
       | Cybotron5000 wrote:
       | "... maybe that makes eye contact the very essence of music."
       | ...tell that to Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder!
        
         | Fellshard wrote:
         | It's definitely too far a stretch to place it at the center -
         | but for those who have experienced it, it is definitely a part
         | of musical performance /for them/, and a not-insignificant
         | part.
         | 
         | There might also be some unexplored areas in this article, with
         | regards to the role of eye contact in /improv/, especially jazz
         | improv and the like. There's a lot more communication that
         | occurs both through instruments and non-verbal cues in that
         | setting.
         | 
         | When I've played keyboard in a group setting, I've noticed I'll
         | use eye contact to let someone know that we're feeling out-of-
         | sync - perhaps in tempo, for less experienced groups, or to
         | mark a chord transition or harmonic opportunity they're
         | missing, or to encourage them to push a bit more in a section
         | where they're withdrawing too much.
        
         | Splendor wrote:
         | Maybe this is just a sign of working in a technical field for
         | too long, but my mind always jumps to counterexamples first. So
         | I was surprised they didn't even acknowledge the existence of
         | blind musicians.
        
       | nonrandomstring wrote:
       | In a tight band the bassist and drummer are really one creature
       | with four arms and legs. Try putting the drummer in a drum room
       | and the bassist in the control room so the glass is between them,
       | and hear it all go to crap.
        
         | zwieback wrote:
         | Is it eye contact or seeing the drummer, though? Or maybe even
         | feeling the bass drum, not sure. I'm going to guess that seeing
         | the drum sticks would be helpful too.
         | 
         | Probably a separate skill set, I'm sure a good studio musician
         | knows how to do great with headphones on their head. I'm a bass
         | player myself but rarely do any recording so I'm crap at it but
         | I'm sure I could learn.
        
           | colechristensen wrote:
           | There are a lot of channels of communication, but a lot of it
           | is driven by the drummer. Had fun irritating the band
           | director in high school sometimes by pushing silly tempos
           | getting everyone to follow a few drummers, you get the sense
           | of how much you can push and then everybody just follows you.
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | When people talk about conductors and what they do, it's almost
       | always "what do they do in the concert?" They'll say,
       | disparagingly, "hey, the musicians know how to keep time."
       | 
       | Not _quite_ true, but anyway, what that ignores is that they give
       | the orchestra (and chorus, which was where I was) directions _in
       | rehearsal_ , and the eye and hand gestures during the concert are
       | references to that.
       | 
       | So in rehearsal they stop and point to the horns and say "I want
       | you to crescendo / decrescendo here" and have them do it until
       | good. The horns mark it in their scores.
       | 
       | Then in the concert, the conductor just points, and the horns see
       | the pencil marks on their scores and do it.
        
         | zwieback wrote:
         | Definitely true in the (school) orchestras I played in.
         | However, a friend who plays in a orchestra where they bring in
         | high-end soloists told me that they don't really rehearse
         | together more than an hour or two. In those cases I imagine the
         | conductor has to do a bit more to coordinate in real time.
         | Maybe a little glaring when the trumpets play too loud or
         | something.
        
         | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
         | The musicians can't easily keep time. Not because they're bad
         | at their jobs, but because sound travels so slowly there's an
         | appreciable delay between the different sections of the
         | orchestra. (50 ms for a smaller hall, up to 100 ms for a giant
         | Mahlerian monster orchestra in a large space.)
         | 
         | Those are not small delays. The speed of light is slightly
         | faster, so having someone at the front indicating time keeps
         | everything together.
         | 
         | The pointing and gesticulating aren't limited to prepared
         | rehearsal notes. Rehearsal notes certainly happen, but apart
         | from keeping time, the conductor's job is to define the mood
         | and emotional valence, moment to moment. This may be somewhat
         | improvised, within limits.
         | 
         | Orchestras typically play somewhat behind the indicated beat
         | because it allows for more expression.
         | 
         | There's also a lot of business-related admin - dealing with
         | absences, holding auditions for new members, contributing to
         | program scheduling, reading and possibly writing feedback notes
         | to/from various interested parties, and so on.
         | 
         | Every once in a while a smaller orchestra will try to manage
         | without a conductor. While the results are usually workable -
         | professional musicians are very good at their jobs - they're
         | not _great._
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | Hah, I found playing in my band with a mask on made us really
       | suck on improv sections. I never realized how much we relied upon
       | it.
        
         | black_puppydog wrote:
         | Huh... that makes me thing... how do Ghost do it?
        
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