[HN Gopher] Scaling a startup from a bunker: founders' story fro...
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       Scaling a startup from a bunker: founders' story from Ukraine
        
       Author : Pavlyshyna
       Score  : 194 points
       Date   : 2022-06-01 15:57 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.awesomic.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.awesomic.io)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | r6ku wrote:
        
       | OleksK wrote:
        
       | CosmicShadow wrote:
       | Really glad to hear that you guys are safe and continuing to
       | operate. I remembered you were in Ukraine and was wondering how
       | that affected everything! I've still got you in the back of my
       | mind for when I need some design!
        
         | Pavlyshyna wrote:
         | Thank you, I honestly appreciate!
        
       | svnt wrote:
       | I am grateful you found stability in work but this reads like a
       | satire. There are plenty of reasons to not grow. War is a valid
       | one.
       | 
       | The clearest framing of this for me is that the religion of
       | Silicon Valley is primarily founded in avoidant behaviors and
       | artificial restrictions on healthy behavior.
       | 
       | I hope you all stay safe and find healing.
        
         | starik36 wrote:
         | > avoidant behaviors
         | 
         | Disagree. I find it very helpful to be busy during stressful
         | times. Otherwise you are just endlessly thinking about the war
         | and incessantly checking news sources.
         | 
         | I can't even imagine the mental pressure these folks are under.
        
           | Pavlyshyna wrote:
           | Thank you! We also see it this way from what we hear from
           | folks. Eg I limited newsfeed to 2 times a day and try to be
           | busy all other times otherwise it gets all energy away for
           | being worried.
        
         | Pavlyshyna wrote:
         | hi, thank you for the reply! Safe and yes, therapy helps with
         | healing. I might understand your concern around toxic culture
         | of "growth at all cost" as SV religion. After bootstrapping my
         | 3 companies before, I am not a fan of it too.
         | 
         | Hopefully, this is not the case. We were not pushing people
         | during such heart-breaking times, on the opposite, they needed
         | work as a distraction and spent at least 30% of work time
         | lately on volunteering projects, eg. designing for non-profits.
         | This gave an additional sense of purpose to being productive
         | and stay strong.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | That's a generic flamewar tangent and those do not make for
         | good HN threads at the best of times:
         | 
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
         | 
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
         | 
         | This is obviously not an article about startup growth at all
         | costs; it's the story of what's been happening to a startup in
         | a war zone. I don't think it's in very good taste to lecture
         | people who are going through that, let alone toss cliche
         | internet swipes like "this reads like a satire", which are
         | against the site guidelines anyhow.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | AndrewUnmuted wrote:
        
           | arcticfox wrote:
           | > Exploiting Ukraine in any way for business reasons like
           | this
           | 
           | Where are you getting this take from? The founder calling the
           | shots seems to be Ukrainian. The entire article is about them
           | doing everything they can to take care of their team and
           | their country.
           | 
           | And as for why they keep working, his account of the opinion
           | of his female employees hiding in bunkers to reduce the
           | chance of rape:
           | 
           | > I asked them to rest and take care of themselves & their
           | relatives, but they told me that work kept them mentally
           | stable.
        
       | albertgoeswoof wrote:
       | This is an amazing story and great concept/startup. I'd love to
       | know more about the economics around the company, given that you
       | raised 2.5M USD last year- what kind of capital costs do you
       | incur that make the VC route a good path here? How do you plan to
       | scale up to returns that are comparable with other YC companies?
       | 
       | In other words, geopolitical situation aside, why not bootstrap
       | this business or rely on debt?
        
         | Pavlyshyna wrote:
         | Thank you! It's a fair question given though unit economics in
         | businesses like ours are usually pretty healthy. As we had a
         | bootstrap experience before and were (still are!) very lean, we
         | considered the options you mentioned too.
         | 
         | The point for us was not capital costs or smth, but
         | opportunities to grow at a different scale. We see VC not as
         | primarily funding, but as partners for the journey -- source of
         | learnings, support and network. We were mostly focused on
         | raising from angel entrepreneurs, even current customers
         | joined. Hopefully this answers your question.
        
       | hemloc_io wrote:
       | Hey! I remember reading your previous article on HN about being
       | bootstrapped, and I liked the fun aesthetic of your company :)
       | 
       | Glad to hear everyone is safe, best of luck.
        
         | Pavlyshyna wrote:
         | yeap, that was us :) thank you!
        
       | CedarMills wrote:
       | It's a great post with realities of war. Being focused on work is
       | a great distraction as well. My issue is how do we respond to
       | businesses who are clearly exploiting the crisis for monetary
       | gain?
       | 
       | It's one thing to ask for support for humanitarian aid purposes
       | (such as fundraising to distribute food, helping someone's family
       | get out, etc.), it's another to exploit the war to grow your
       | business.
       | 
       | When the war started, I had numerous cold emails from Ukrainian
       | businesses offering services (primarily outsourced marketing,
       | design, software engineering) with the first paragraph containing
       | emotionally charged, guilt-tripping statements. Those emails
       | started to cause me to have some resentment and I marked them as
       | junk. I will not be pushed to support a business that's trying to
       | guilt trip me, regardless of what's happening.
       | 
       | War is bad, majority of world supports the Ukrainian side. I pray
       | for the conflict to be over soon.
        
         | passivate wrote:
         | If you still have them, can you share those emails with names
         | redacted?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Pavlyshyna wrote:
         | hi! Thank you for the reply and what a great point. I can
         | relate and yes, a lot of business in Ukraine are urged to
         | switch to other markets to survive. I assume their cold
         | outreach attempts might look naive and exploiting. I still
         | believe that begging for help and offering some services are
         | different, and sorry that disturbed you, really.
         | 
         | I assume they still need to make payouts, keep workplaces and
         | support the economy. From my perspective, begging for charity
         | is not okay when you can bring value. Maybe I am just too
         | optimistic about examples you mentioned.
        
           | AzzieElbab wrote:
           | this is not how the west works nowadays. we are anti-survival
           | because we do not feel threatened(big mistake), we are all
           | about appearances and passing judgments.
        
           | jamal-kumar wrote:
           | Keep up the good work and thanks for providing a sense of
           | normalcy to your employees in the midst of this crisis, I'm
           | glad something like that is going on at this time.
        
         | jen20 wrote:
         | > majority of world supports the Ukrainian side
         | 
         | And one way you can support it is to support the Ukrainian
         | economy by doing business with companies there.
        
         | ejb999 wrote:
         | >>My issue is how do we respond to businesses who are clearly
         | exploiting the crisis for monetary gain?
         | 
         | Yep, and not only that, what I see in those pictures are many
         | young, military age healthy males that are hiding out in 'safe
         | places' while other men and women are literally putting their
         | lives at stake to save the country and the lives of the
         | residents - while this group is pimping their business. Doesn't
         | feel right to me.
        
           | trhway wrote:
           | Putting those young healthy males without significant
           | training and enough effective military hardware right into
           | the trenches being shelled/bombed would be a typical Russian
           | approach which produces a lot of dead and wounded without any
           | positive result. As it has become obvious over the last 3
           | months Ukraine had learnt to fight differently, smarter.
           | 
           | >while this group is pimping their business.
           | 
           | From the macro scale POV, the large wars are won by
           | economies. USSR and USA won over Germany and Japan by running
           | larger economies (USSR starting 1942/43).
           | 
           | One of the significant part of the war being waged by Russia
           | is to decimate Ukrainian economy. These guys are successfully
           | fighting it back. Them continuing to exist and even thrive
           | and grow is one more piece of war lost by Russia. It is a
           | long game/war. It is very possible that the conflict would go
           | into ceasefire smoldering mode for years during which the
           | survival of Ukraine as independent nation would be decided
           | not by occasional artillery exchanges across ceasefire lines,
           | it will be decided by whose economy would continue to develop
           | successfully.
           | 
           | >hiding out in 'safe places'
           | 
           | They aren't hiding from draft. Most of them could easily be
           | reached and drafted by army when/if needed. Ukraine drafting
           | offices are overwhelmed with people ready to sign up.
        
         | qaq wrote:
         | So helping people to have a job bad but once they loose the job
         | and have to rely on handouts helping them is good hm...
        
         | zucker42 wrote:
         | I understand why you might not like getting these emails, but
         | is there any reason you think they're bad in some general sense
         | (at least worse than any other email advertising). I'm sure
         | there are some customers out there who would like to buy from
         | Ukrainian companies given what's going on.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | I strongly suspect many are not actually Ukrainian; I
           | recently got Facebook ads for a "Ukrainian educational toy
           | maker" selling puzzles I'd seen on AliExpress.
        
       | dhoe wrote:
       | Very timely, I was just wondering the other day how you guys are
       | doing. Can't wait to be able to justify signing up with my badly
       | designed side project!
        
         | Pavlyshyna wrote:
         | thank you! You're always welcome to try us out
        
       | dollyworld wrote:
       | wow, thanks for sharing this
        
       | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
       | Long time ago, I also worked for an outsourcing company in a poor
       | country. They didn't call it a startup though.
        
         | Pavlyshyna wrote:
         | I assume poor country refers to Ukraine. We have designers
         | connected to the app from almost all continents though,
         | including Canada, Germany, Portugal.
        
       | shashanoid wrote:
       | This is crazy. Getting goosebumps from reading that blog post.
       | It's extremely hard to imagine how you managed to pull that off.
       | All the best & I hope you all stay safe <3
        
       | DariaRud wrote:
        
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       (page generated 2022-06-02 23:01 UTC)