[HN Gopher] iPadOS 16
___________________________________________________________________
iPadOS 16
Author : todsacerdoti
Score : 179 points
Date : 2022-06-06 18:49 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
| kposehn wrote:
| Hopefully external displays will also support full screen apps as
| well (I haven't used normal windows since Lion).
| minimaxir wrote:
| The keynote implied it, but Stage Manager/Windows and Display
| Scaling only works on M1 iPads per the footnotes on the product
| page.
| deergomoo wrote:
| Completely expected but still quite lame considering I could do
| more multitasking on an old Mac with a dual core i5 and 4 gigs
| of RAM.
|
| My 2020 iPad Pro has an A12Z and 6 gigs of RAM, gating off
| access to the new stuff completely feels very artificial.
| hollandheese wrote:
| >I could do more multitasking on an old Mac with a dual core
| i5 and 4 gigs of RAM.
|
| I could do more multitasking on a 486SLC/33 with 4MB of
| memory.
|
| > My 2020 iPad Pro has an A12Z and 6 gigs of RAM, gating off
| access to the new stuff completely feels very artificial.
|
| I have that iPad Pro as well, and I'm infuriated. Looking at
| the Surface line to replace it. Apple's strung me on too long
| with the iPad Pro.
| etra0 wrote:
| The day iPad gets hardware accelerated VMs without any jailbreak
| would be the day it'll become a productivity machine for
| developers.
|
| The iPad is cool, portable and has a nice screen, but iPadOS
| still holds it back IMO.
| josefresco wrote:
| That trackpad drag from iPad to external screen looked awkward as
| hell. He probably practiced that like 50 times, or it was a pre-
| record action.
| [deleted]
| paxys wrote:
| They say that with every update. I'm waiting for the day iPad Pro
| will actually be useful for productivity, at least enough to
| justify its hardware and cost.
| tootie wrote:
| I'm baffled. The entire iPad ecosystem is extremely expensive
| portable TVs. They are also decent (but very expensive)
| e-readers. For messaging, web browsing, gaming it's much easier
| to use a phone. For doing real work, you need a keyboard and a
| mouse/trackpad.
| criddell wrote:
| If your real work involves reading or writing or sketching,
| an iPad is a pretty great choice. I use mine all the time for
| marking up PDFs, drawing, and note taking (I prefer
| handwriting to typing for notes).
| imoverclocked wrote:
| It's super productive for some things. eg: I love flight
| planning on my iPad.
| gman83 wrote:
| I have to say, as a kid, I watched my productivity going from
| 286 to 396 to 486dx to Pentium just skyrocket. I went from
| writing config.sys & autoexec.bat files just to get my games to
| run to running mIRC while my mom was screaming at me to get off
| the phone line. Modern innovations just don't provide that
| level of change for the end user, no matter how Apple spins it.
| I wonder if we'll ever get that again.
| zamalek wrote:
| Try the "new cool" on Linux: the likes of NixOS and
| Silverblue+Distrobox (especially the latter for dev). You
| have to backtrack heavily on learned opinions, but it gave me
| the same dopamine rush that Rust did when I first "got it."
| westhom wrote:
| Maybe 3-5 years until iOS/iPadOS and MacOS are essentially the
| same. It doesn't make sense to keep them separate code based when
| iOS is developing into a hybrid form factor OS, with mouse,
| multitasking, windows, file system, external monitor, usb
| accessories, keyboard, etc.
|
| My guess is non-pro laptops will basically be iOS, and then there
| will be a MacOS Pro, which unlocks some capabilities for
| developers, but all in a unified code base.
|
| First step was to share processor architecture and work in the
| ability for iOS apps to run in MacOS. But iOS is very much
| converging into a replacement for MacOS. And just like iPhone iOS
| strips out features you unlock with iPadOS, same for the iOS-
| ification of MacOS.
| rasguanabana wrote:
| I doubt it. There's a reason you can't call from iPad (despite
| having SIM card variant). There's a reason you cannot use
| Pencil with Mac on touchpad. There's a reason you have very
| limited multitasking support on iPad and none on iPhone.
|
| Apple wants you to buy more devices to fill gaps that another
| one doesn't support.
| mywittyname wrote:
| If they aren't currently the same, they probably never will be.
|
| The whole business case for the iPad falls apart the minute it
| can install and run arbitrary code. At that point, the iPad
| shifts from being a large form-factor iPhone to being a multi-
| modal Macbook. Which is to say, it goes from a device that
| compliments an existing device to one that replaces and
| existing, more expensive device.
|
| The reason professionals use Macbooks is because users still
| need to install and run software that's not sanctioned by
| Apple. And users are willing to pay a decently large premium to
| do so.
|
| I'm sure Apple would love to lock down Macbooks the same way
| they did for iDevices, but if they do that, they would end up
| killing the Macbook market overnight.
| westhom wrote:
| I definitely get why professionals want a MacBook. I'm just
| observing that, from UI/UX/functionality standpoint, the
| differences between what iPad OS can do and what MacOS can do
| is quickly disappearing. It's been happening over a few
| years, and will continue to converge. There will be a point
| where it will be good enough to add to consumer MacBooks, and
| satisfy most people. They will maintain differentiation
| between the "iOS" MacOS just like they enable more powerful
| features with iPadOS that you can't have with iOS. But it's
| going to happen, the writing is on the wall.
|
| Btw, this doesn't mean that iOS MacOS will be unusable by
| devs. I'm sure they have already roadmappped what a pro iOS
| looks like, for MacBook users. Eg terminal, compiling, code
| running, etc. But might be more locked down from where you
| can install .apps from.
| mywittyname wrote:
| Apple could have made the iPad a convertible laptop long
| time ago. They just chose not to. It's not like Apple is
| waiting for some technology to emerge that will enable the
| iPad to be more like a laptop.
|
| Apple straight up does not want people using iPads to do
| laptop things. They don't want people substituting their
| $999 Macbook Airs with $329 iPads.
| wincy wrote:
| But why not substitute the $999 MacBook Air with the $999
| iPad Pro 13"? That's the one that bothers me. It's very
| nearly the same device.
| highwaylights wrote:
| This, but I think it goes beyond this too.
|
| If Apple allows exceptions to the iOS sandbox for developers,
| it will very rapidly be abused by users who don't understand
| the implications of what they're doing.
|
| You can see this in the many just-jailbreak-your-iphone-to-
| get-this-cool-feature videos all over youtube. Almost no-one
| outside of developers understands what it really means to
| disable these guardrails and the headache for Apple when it
| starts going wrong would be enormous.
|
| Grandma: "I let my grandson borrow my phone but now it has
| this screen that says I need to pay money to decrypt my files
| how do I fix it?"
|
| Apple store staff: "That appears to be malware, madam"
|
| _blank stare_
|
| Apple store staff: "I'm afraid there's nothing we can do"
|
| Grandma: "But the ad said it was secure."
|
| etc.
| mywittyname wrote:
| Apple doesn't allow it because App Store fees are key
| component of their business model. That's it.
|
| The argument that people are too stupid to know how to
| properly use a computer is just a handy argument their
| marketing team uses because protecting little old ladies
| from evil hackers sounds better than the truth.
| Nullabillity wrote:
| Which is why we need to solve this through regulation rather
| than hope that Tim Cook grows a conscience.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| Well professionals would use the MacBook pro
| lattalayta wrote:
| My prediction is that they are just slowly going to merge them
| (like we've been seeing over the past few years with control
| center, multi-tasking, and now stage manager and system
| preferences). I bet there would be a lot of outrage and
| pushback if they decided to merge them before all the
| functionality is there, but eventually people will be asking
| for them to be the same.
| gnicholas wrote:
| Will it finally support in-line links in Mail? Until then, my
| iPad Pro seems decidedly un-pro.
| [deleted]
| tolmasky wrote:
| Stage Manager follows the same pattern as the other features
| Apple took too long to realize were already figured out on the
| Mac: make it arbitrarily different to be able to call it new.
| Just like the "changing cursor" for trackpad support on the iPad.
| But hey, I'll take it I guess.
|
| Unfortunately, in previous cases, these "justification" tweaks
| have resulted in a strictly worse experience IMO. The
| transforming cursor on the iPad is distracting and it can be
| weird how it disappears over icons (resulting in me losing track
| of it sometimes). The iPad Keyboard is more awkward than a real
| keyboard, top-heavy, and sold separately of course. I wouldn't be
| surprised if the same is true of Stage Manager, although at least
| it's on the Mac too so hopefully if it turns out to not be that
| great, it won't be excused as "people not getting it" like all
| the weirdo undiscoverable gestures on the iPad.
|
| The sad reality though is that it's taken 10 years for the iPad
| to finally mature into... an arbitrarily different take on OS X?
| Same chip as the Mac. Works with a keyboard and mouse. Better for
| drawing but worse for external monitor support. And now basically
| the same window management we've always had with the Mac. I was
| always (and remain, theoretically) a big believer in the
| opportunity the iPad presented, and think it could have gotten to
| the same place sooner, but bolder, with the actual aim of
| replacing the Mac (the same way the iPhone replaced the iPod).
| Where it's at now kind of proves that's always been possible...
| it just chose to get here meekly instead, not stepping on any
| toes, always making sure there was an excuse to need to buy _both
| devices_.
|
| Universal Control to me is the epitome of that mentality: a
| supremely technically impressive, but ultimately completely over-
| engineered and absolutely ridiculous "solution" to a problem that
| wouldn't exist if the Mac simply had a touch screen. You wouldn't
| need WiFi and communication between two computers to move your
| mouse from screen A to screen B if the Mac just had a touch
| screen. The experience of having a touch Mac that you just...
| plugged into an external display would be strictly better than
| the weird world of Universal Control, where you drag an image
| from Adobe Photoshop for Mac over to Adobe Photoshop for iPad, or
| sometimes, you drag it from Adobe Photoshop for iPad running on
| the Mac using Catalyst to Adobe Photoshop for iPad running
| "natively" on the iPad.
|
| I think Apple truly squandered the opportunity in the last decade
| to get truly get ahead on "big screen" (aka, non-phone-based)
| computing. Instead, the field still remains wide open.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Well, given the disasters that other parties in the industry
| have seen trying to make the new platform into the only
| platform, I can't help but think that some trepidation is
| justified. Power users also seem to be quite outspoken about
| traditional keyboard-and-mouse UX not going away, which also
| makes the success of a single unified platform unlikely.
|
| > Universal Control to me is the epitome of that mentality: a
| supremely technically impressive, but ultimately completely
| over-engineered and absolutely ridiculous "solution" to a
| problem that wouldn't exist if the Mac simply had a touch
| screen. You wouldn't need WiFi and communication between two
| computers to move your mouse from screen A to screen B if the
| Mac just had a touch screen. The experience of having a touch
| Mac that you just... plugged into an external display would be
| strictly better than the weird world of Universal Control,
| where you drag an image from Adobe Photoshop for Mac over to
| Adobe Photoshop for iPad, or sometimes, you drag it from Adobe
| Photoshop for iPad running on the Mac using Catalyst to Adobe
| Photoshop for iPad running "natively" on the iPad.
|
| There are plenty of use cases for Universal Control that
| wouldn't be fixed by a touch Mac, though. I use it to control
| multiple Macs (previously used ShareMouse and before that
| Synergy, but Universal Control works much more smoothly without
| a hardwired connection), as well as to use native iPadOS apps
| from developers that force their Electron apps on macOS with,
| like Slack and Discord.
|
| Personally speaking I have no desire for touch on traditional
| MacBooks - I can only see it making sense on a dockable iPad-
| like Mac.
| tolmasky wrote:
| _> Personally speaking I have no desire for touch on
| traditional MacBooks - I can only see it making sense on a
| dockable iPad-like MacBook._
|
| Yes, the fundamental premise is that the last 10 years would
| have been used differently to grow the touch space to where
| it fits in the lineup. Arguably a desktop and laptop are as
| far apart as a laptop and an iPad. That doesn't mean they
| need different OSes. I shouldn't have to use a completely
| different OS because I want to use the Apple Pencil. It's
| just a peripheral. And yes, peripherals should influence the
| UI (like how scroll bars appear or disappear depending on
| whether you have a mouse with a scroll wheel attached). I
| imagine a "Touch Mac" as a laptop where you could spin the
| screen around to draw on the go for example. Forget complex
| touch uses, just being able to fold it back to read like a
| book or watch a movie is a killer feature. But even the Magic
| Keyboard for the iPad doesn't support this transformation,
| you have to take the iPad out to use it... like an iPad. It's
| silly. Similarly, opening up touch to the Mac to allow for
| things like the Surface Studio, for those who need it, would
| be great! Instead touch is locked in a tiny screen on Apple's
| least-used OS (well, after tvOS I guess).
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| I can kind of see the larger point you're making - it would
| be nice to be able to directly use an Apple Pencil on a
| Mac, but at the same time I do think separate OSes are
| necessary for radically different form factors. The UX
| requirements just change too much between phone/tablet and
| laptop/desktop... when you try to fudge both models into
| the same device you get a mess like Windows 8 or GNOME 3/4
| which doesn't serve either set of users particularly well.
|
| > Instead touch is locked in a tiny screen on Apple's
| least-used OS (well, after tvOS I guess).
|
| If sales figures are any indicator, it's _macOS_ that
| likely takes the position second-least-used OS. Apple sold
| 19.1 million iPads in 2021 and only 10 million Macs[0].
| Lots of users who 'd never consider buying a Mac are in the
| market for some form of iPad.
|
| [0]: https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/02/23/apples-
| ipad-domin...
| tolmasky wrote:
| _> but at the same time I do think separate OSes are
| necessary for radically different form factors._
|
| But the last 10 years have been Apple repeatedly
| disproving this. iPadOS _started_ radically different
| from macOS... only to have every major inflection point
| be defined by it moving closer to desktop /macOS. Whether
| it was giving up on the single-app model to one that
| recognized that apps needed to run in parallel (first in
| a "managed window manager" like a tiling window manager
| you might find in Linux, and later to a more traditional
| "unmanaged" one like in normal macOS), to shunning away
| from keyboards and mice entirely, to then only being an
| accessibility feature, to now being a major add-on that
| they sell, and even finally adopting key-commands, etc.
| (I don't know if anyone ever shook an iPad to undo).
|
| I think this position was defensible at the start, but at
| the very least has had little supporting evidence since.
| It is indisputable that the evolution of iPadOS has been
| to move further and further from iOS and closer and
| closer to macOS. _Perhaps_ there exists some third way
| (there probably does!), but Apple has proven to be
| stretched too thin to try anything other than "maybe it
| should work more like a phone" and "maybe it should work
| more like a laptop", and the latter has been the
| consistent, if begrudging, winner.
|
| _> The UX requirements just change too much between
| phone /tablet and laptop/desktop..._
|
| I think this has the line in the wrong place. It should
| be "between phone and tablet/laptop/desktop". The mistake
| was starting at iOS and having to trudge to macOS over 10
| years vs. the other way around (although perhaps it made
| sense for marketing reasons). I mentioned this before,
| and Gruber wrote about my thoughts here [1], but the
| funny thing about the iPhone is that despite being _more
| constrained_ than the iPad, I feel less frustrated with
| it. I am _impressed_ with how much I can get done on my
| phone, I am understanding when it falls short. But the
| iPad makes it so clear to me all the time that all that
| 's standing in the way of me getting something done is
| some designer's stubborn reluctance to allow me to do
| things the "old way". An easy example is writing long
| form text before there was a good keyboard you could
| attach. I get why the phone isn't a great place to type,
| the iPad feels unnecessary for that to _always_ be the
| case.
|
| _> I can kind of see the larger point you 're making -
| it would be nice to be able to directly use an Apple
| Pencil on a Mac, _
|
| I think the best way to think about this is from user
| workflows first, as I mentioned above it's not even just
| about the touch aspects. I think the YouTube experience
| is pretty great on the iPad. Touch here is kind of a bare
| necessity, I need to pause the video _somehow_ , but it's
| not a fundamentally "touch experience", it's just a nice
| form factor for watching videos on the couch. But that
| experience immediately changes to frustration if I want
| to suggest the video to someone or have to quickly reply
| to an email. I'd love to be able to swivel the keyboard
| out, copy/paste the link, send it in Messages and type
| something out quickly. Or reply to an email that's longer
| than a sentence without thinking "ugh, I should really go
| to my computer for this". This is a point that is
| bizarrely absent in all these "the devices complement
| each other" discussions: they work worse separately. I
| _often_ want to circle something in a picture and draw an
| arrow, which sucks with a mouse, then type something out,
| which sucks with a Pencil. The experience is frustrating
| on both devices, but would be better if I could do both
| things. And just like a device _supporting_ all sorts of
| peripherals doesn 't mean its a requirement, you could
| choose to use it as if it didn't have a Pencil or touch
| as well. There are tons of scenarios that would be way
| better even in the absolute worst implementation of this:
| a machine that when in flipped around in "iPad mode" gave
| you iPadOS, and when the keyboard was out, have it act
| like macOS (again, I'm not suggesting this is how it
| should work, but it represents a "floor" of what the
| experience could be like). Just the _weight_ savings of
| not needing both devices is great.
|
| _> when you try to fudge both models into the same
| device you get a mess like Windows 8 or GNOME 3 /4 which
| doesn't serve either set of users particularly well._
|
| I've never been impressed with pointing at Linux at
| Windows as proof that "the other way doesn't work". It is
| unfortunate that the cost-to-entry on this hardware means
| we get very little alternatives to compare. And frankly,
| Windows and Linux don't do that much great in any UI
| department, that doesn't mean "if Apple can't do it, it
| must be impossible." If you only had Windows and Linux,
| you might be convinced that desktop computing was an
| unsolvable UI problem too...
|
| 1. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2020/04/30/tolmasky-
| ipad-c...
| ARandumGuy wrote:
| It's even weirder when Microsoft has been releasing Surface
| tablets for over a decade, which are generally well liked by
| their users (from what I understand, I've never personally
| owned one). They just created some dedicated touch UIs for core
| functionality, and optimized the higher-level UI elements for
| touch control. Surface Tablets certainly aren't perfect. But
| they can run any windows software, they have proper file
| management, and they can actually be used by professionals
| without major compromises.
|
| For professional use, iPad OS will always be a compromise until
| it's fully integrated with MacOS. And it baffles me that Apple
| is trying to market iPads to professionals, yet their unwilling
| to take that step.
| [deleted]
| cudgy wrote:
| Microsoft Tablet PC came into being over 20 years ago. It
| worked quite well actually.
| InitialLastName wrote:
| > They just created some dedicated touch UIs for core
| functionality, and optimized the higher-level UI elements for
| touch control.
|
| One should note that the changes Microsoft initially made to
| support the Surface (and touchscreens in general) _so deeply_
| compromised their desktop OS 's design and functionality that
| many had to be reverted for the next OS release; many other
| "features" have continued to be among the biggest usability
| pain points for the ecosystem.
| Tiktaalik wrote:
| Can I code on it yet?
|
| Just wild to have such an unbelievably powerful piece of hardware
| that I pretty much only use for youtube and netflix.
|
| You sell a keyboard for it. Let me code on it!
| kryptn wrote:
| I've used blinkshell to remote into other machines and it's
| worked well enough for me, although it still requires another
| machine. It apparently has vscode built into it now, but I
| haven't used it much since.
|
| I'd really love to see a native vscode on ipad.
| donbrae wrote:
| The native CodeSandbox app[0] is pretty good if you're a
| Web/JavaScript dev.
|
| [0] https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/codesandbox/id1423330822
| diob wrote:
| Yes! I want one only because of the possibility of a true depth
| camera which the air doesn't have. But I can't justify it just
| for that.
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| Can you still not run Terminal on it? I'll know Apple is for
| real once we can access Terminal + Finder.
| MaxLeiter wrote:
| I coded on my iPad for a few months (jailbroken with X11) and
| loved it. I've accepted I'll need to run Linux on an old one if
| I ever want to use one as a proper workstation. I can't foresee
| Apple ever relaxing the security enough to allow a proper
| development environment.
| bradgessler wrote:
| MacBook Air is that.
| lostgame wrote:
| How is a MacBook Air a multi-touch Apple Device I can code
| on?
| nunez wrote:
| I have been trying to code on my Pro for years; depressing
| every time.
|
| The day I can finally code on this thing is the day that I stop
| carrying a laptop with me.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| We have a Pro and basically the only advantage is
| illustration via Apple pencil. It's even more frustrating to
| type on than a phone, and every external keyboard I've seen
| requires a flat surface (no ergonomic typing on your lap). In
| hindsight I'd rather have spent the money on an M1 MacBook
| Air and a Wacom tablet.
| wiremine wrote:
| > Can I code on it yet?
|
| I (honestly) don't understand the appeal of writing code on an
| iPad. Feels like the Air or Macbook Pro already do that: a
| keyboard with a screen. I'd feel cramped if I had to develop on
| something like iPad OS.
| goosedragons wrote:
| It's a more flexible form factor that can handle things like
| taking written notes, marking up PDFs, couch surfing
| extremely well which traditional laptops fail at. And with a
| Bluetooth keyboard it's perfectly serviceable for typing at a
| desk. Literally all it's restrictions are completely
| artificial which makes it doubly frustrating.
| spike021 wrote:
| I think it depends on the scope of what a user wants to code.
|
| I have a Mac Mini at home, but lately while doing some prep
| for interviews (sigh, leetcode), I've been going to the
| library or other places with my iPad and a BT keyboard, and
| it's not half-bad to write some code. Unfortunately (or
| fortunately depending on who you ask) I've been mostly
| writing code on a DigitalOcean instance that I SSH to. That
| can be trickier if Wi-Fi is shaky where I am since my iPad
| doesn't have access to mobile networks and my phone doesn't
| do tethering.
|
| Nowadays newer iPads can even hook up to external displays.
| So form-factor wise, you're not necessarily missing much,
| even if you prefer more screen real-estate.
|
| It would definitely be nice to have a native Terminal shell,
| though.
| Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
| Because it is a locked down supercomputer that could do a lot
| of things, if it wasn't artificially dumbed down. I
| completely understand why some people want to undumb it. It
| is light, powerful and more robust and portable than any
| notebook.
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| I wonder what jailbreak efforts look like in terms of
| getting full blown Mac OS (the M1/M1 Pro/M2 flavor) to run
| on iPad...
| phoobahr wrote:
| I write a lot of python. A fair chunk of inside Jupiter
| notebooks. Safari is a capable browser for accessing remotes
| juypter lab servers and there are a couple developers one-
| upping each other & producing pretty good options for local
| development with native libraries.
|
| When I'm home I don't really need the iPad for this (much).
| There a few use cases where it's clearly better than my
| MacBook Pro though: the screen is veerry nice outside and
| I've written more in a hammock than you'd think. Also -
| airplanes which I am on more often than I'd like to be. an
| iPad Pro with the magic keyboard is fantastically shallow. It
| fits on a tray better than anything else.
| melling wrote:
| "Why would you want to do that? I don't understand ".
|
| I'm going to skip answering and simply say I would like to
| code on my iPad too
| celim307 wrote:
| For someone like me who travels and digital nomads, the 14"
| MacBook Pro is perfect. iPad is definitely not in my
| interests but while I definitely can be more productive with
| more displays, I surprised myself how quickly I got used to
| using just the MacBook screen.
| nicoburns wrote:
| People don't want to develop on iPadOS. They want iPad
| hardware with a full fat os such as macOS or Linux.
| lawik wrote:
| Not necessarily. I'd be curious to see a slightly different
| take on the programming environments I'm used to. I like
| macOS more than iPadOS but regardless, right now I couldn't
| work on the iPad if I wanted to.
| stetrain wrote:
| I want a linux/mac compatible terminal environment
| sandboxed in iPad OS. I don't need them to be the root OS
| or try to use a mouse-centric UI via a touchscreen.
| m-p-3 wrote:
| An actual VM, fully sandboxed from the OS would be
| terrific.
| FreqSep wrote:
| Here's the appeal: it's basically a MacBook Pro when the
| keyboard is attached.
|
| But you can take it off and write notes with it, pass it
| around, etc.
| specto wrote:
| I sold my m1 ipad because of this.
| williamtrask wrote:
| Surely the main reason iPad and Air don't become the same
| product is to push more and more consumers into the
| increasingly locked down product. Opening up iPad to run
| arbitrary code would ruin this anti-competitive advantage
| stetrain wrote:
| - Swift Playgrounds supports coding, running, and submitting
| iOS apps to the app store.
|
| - Pythonista is a python IDE for iOS
|
| - iSH Shell is an emulated x86 terminal environment
|
| I still wish they would allow a full dev sandbox on iPad. It
| can be fully isolated from the root filesystem, I just want to
| have a terminal, local git repos, and be able to point a text
| editor at it.
| barkingcat wrote:
| iSH is a great tool, but it's not a general purpose
| replacement for a shell.
|
| I tried running git clone <some reasonably sized project> and
| ish died.
|
| I am interested in helping out with iSH development, but it
| isn't really viable at the moment. It's claim to fame is a
| partial JIT that runs legally despite apple's jit
| restrictions
| simonh wrote:
| Codea is a really nice lua development environment for the
| iPad and can also be used to create App Store apps (though
| you need to use Xcode to build the app bundle). There are
| quite a few others but I think Codea is noteworthy.
|
| Honestly the whoLe 'I wish I could code on my iPad' thing and
| complaining kids can't learn to code on them, has been tired
| for a very, very long time. Many of these dev environments
| came out more than 10 years ago now. Being able to develop in
| swift and publish to the App Store directly for the device
| for free was announced at WWDC and released last year, but
| people still keep moaning about it. Pay attention people!
| lawik wrote:
| I still can't feasibly code and build things in an
| arbitrary language of my choice. I like my iPad Pro quite a
| bit but the only way I can do the type of web app dev I
| normally do through it is by remoting.
|
| I don't believe there are any well-established general text
| editors that offers decent git and text editing. Syntax
| highlighting for a few langs, etc.
|
| And then language runtimes. I do Elixir so I need Erlang
| plus Elixir. The machine could run those fine but I don't
| think you would be allowed to ship those via Apple's store.
|
| Plenty of limitations. Kids can probably learn to code on
| them, depending on what they want and like. The argumenta
| may be tired but so are the unsolved unsolved problems I
| feel.
| humanwhosits wrote:
| What you suggest are not what people are actually
| complaining about. Those suggested dev environments are
| very constrained
| porcoda wrote:
| Isn't pythonista abandonware? Last time I checked the forums
| for it there were a number of posts about it not getting
| updates for at least 2 years. It's a real shame since it's a
| nice piece of work that would be great to have actively
| maintained and updated.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Basically, yeah. Pyto is good and getting better. I
| recommend it over Pythonista to everyone who wants to run
| Python natively and doesn't already have a bunch of
| Pythonista code to support.
|
| The main difference is in the UI libraries each app
| provides, which aren't cross-compatible. If you want to run
| plain text-based Python and work with a REPL, they feel
| very similar. Pyto ship with Python 3.10, though.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| It runs perfectly. It may not be fair to criticize for lack
| of major updates. I don't much like Python but I have
| bought both versions of Pythonista-really a nice product.
| porcoda wrote:
| It's using an EOL version of python. Keeping it up to
| date to use at bare minimum a version that isn't EOL
| (even if it isn't the latest version) would be nice.
| Heck, I'd happily pay periodically for major updates
| since I'm not expecting free work for a product I value
| and paid for in the first place. It's a fair criticism if
| an app is part of an evolving ecosystem (eg, python) and
| just stops keeping up: slowly but surely it skews further
| from what people are expecting, what practices are
| currently in use and those that have been abandoned by
| the community, etc.
|
| What I don't understand is why people who have popular
| apps and decide to stop working on them don't sell them
| so someone else can keep them alive. Pythonista is
| awesome, and lots of people use it. I'm sure someone out
| there would happily step up to help keep it alive or take
| it over.
| bitexploder wrote:
| iSH is horribly slow and not really useful to me for a lot of
| things.
| ghuntley wrote:
| Yes, via Gitpod. See https://ghuntley.com/anywhere for tips and
| recommendations for apps / keyboard configuration because the
| magic keyboard doesn't have an esc key. Happy to answer any
| questions folks may have. Ask away!
| ProfessorZoom wrote:
| GitHub Codespaces
| [deleted]
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Undermentioned new feature: _DriverKit_ is now available on
| iPadOS. You will be able to, apparently, write your own drivers
| and run them on iPads. That 's a big deal.
| api wrote:
| It's a mobile device. Mobile devices are designed primarily for
| consumption or interaction with walled gardens where your
| content can easily be monetized by someone else (like social
| networks). They're _consumer_ devices with the emphasis on the
| word _consumer_.
|
| As you say it's entirely an OS limit not a hardware limit.
| paulcole wrote:
| If they're emphasizing the word "consumer" why do they put
| "Pro" in the product name? I generally agree w/ you by the
| way (just think your reasoning is wrong). Apple clearly has
| no interest in making an iPad into a computer anytime in the
| near future. But somehow "Why isn't this a computer yet?" is
| all you hear after any iPad announcement.
| [deleted]
| Veen wrote:
| I think that overstates things and it's a blinkered
| "developer" perspective. Many professionals use iPads to
| create and do real work every day: writers, artists,
| designers, lawyers, etc.iPads aren't useful for developers,
| but developers are a vanishingly small percentage of the
| population.
|
| "Pro" != Developer. There are many other professions
| andrewmunsell wrote:
| FWIW I do code on my iPad and have gotten rid of my Mac laptop.
| I have two options: remote desktop into my gaming PC, or use
| GitPod (which works quite well for a more "native" but not
| offline dev experience). One day maybe there will be a full
| IDE, but for now this works well for occasional side project
| work.
| kposehn wrote:
| GitHub Codespaces has also been a useful option.
| mnholt wrote:
| I've developed on an iPad using Termius SSHed to an EC2 node
| running tmux. Worked great.
| type0 wrote:
| You developed on EC2 then and iPad was your dumb terminal.
| What is really needed is some sort of native container
| support so that overpriced gadget could be even useful
| offline.
| mnholt wrote:
| Agreed. Just wanted to point out that it is possible if you
| have a flexible definition of "coding on an iPad".
| 0x20cowboy wrote:
| Seems like they could just allow Docker.
| corrral wrote:
| That'd mean Linux VMs, too. There's no "allowing" docker
| without Linux, and if you can run Linux there's no need for
| them to "allow" anything further.
| [deleted]
| fuzzy2 wrote:
| Right now, just like you could yesterday. But maybe you
| actually want to run that code? That's probably never going to
| happen, not on the App Store at least!
| tristanb wrote:
| I run code-server on my home server and it gives me VSCODE
| running in a browser, its great. I code on my iPad all the
| time.
| layer8 wrote:
| You code through it, not on it. :)
| meibo wrote:
| Funny how most of the answers to this post boil down to "remote
| into another $2k machine to do your work on a $2k machine that
| would be extremely capable of doing it by itself".
| TwoNineA wrote:
| I write C# code by remoting to a $2k machine, however, iPadOS
| 16 got me hyped for the fact that I can take my old Mac Mini
| give it to my mom and just use my M1 iPad on my 43 inch 4k
| monitor to do mundane stuff as logging into work via VPN, run
| RDP, run Teams and use it as my "desktop".
|
| All I need now is a decent terminal for iPad OS AND some kind
| of USB-C hub to allow charging AND display out the same time.
| manuelabeledo wrote:
| > All I need now is a decent terminal for iPad OS AND some
| kind of USB-C hub to allow charging AND display out the
| same time.
|
| Do you use Blink by any chance?
| phoobahr wrote:
| Blink: <https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&s
| ource=web&c...>, or Shellfish: <https://www.google.com/ur
| l?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...>, or aShell: <http
| s://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c.
| ..> for a local shell, or iSH: <https://www.google.com/ur
| l?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c...> for an emulated
| shell. I'm sure there are others.
|
| I don't know about C#, it's not an ecosystem I swim in at
| all, but there are multiple python options (including
| Pyto, the venerable Pythonista and jupyter notebook hosts
| like Juno & Carnets). There are js environments like
| Scriptable and Play.js. And it's not Xcode but Swift
| Playgrounds offers, of course, swift including swift.ui
| and the ability to redistribute those projects (with some
| limitations) including submitting directly to the App
| Store.
|
| I get it; I use an iPad a lot for a great many things.
| It's not perfect - I have a long list of things I would
| like to see addressed. Low effort complaints like "let me
| know when I can code on it" are just that though; low
| effort. So those who complain "how to code on it?" or
| about how it exactly match the workflow they use on a
| completely different platform etc just sound.... whiney.
|
| Low effort noise when some basic infrastructure could
| enable so many other workflows. I like my iPad, I use it
| every day, I hope to use more with less friction soon-
| ish. Yup, same thing every June.
| minhazm wrote:
| If your monitor can supply power over USB-C it can charge
| the iPad. There are many options for dongles though. Or
| even Apple's $350 keyboard has a second charging only port
| built into the keyboard stand which leaves the main port
| available for other stuff.
| moonchrome wrote:
| That sounds like a strange setup for C# unless I'm missing
| something.
|
| C# is basically "built for IDEs", even VS code can't hold a
| candle to Rider or Visual Studio - vim and friends are a
| joke in comparison.
|
| I like iPad form factor and would love the idea of using it
| as a thin client for development, but unless JetBrains come
| up with iOS client for remote development (which I doubt)
| it's a non-starter for me.
|
| Also what's stopping you from charging form USB-C monitor
| and using it as a hub ?
| tessierashpool wrote:
| except for the answers that boil down to "buy a $5 app."
|
| this isn't about not being able to code on an iPad. that's
| easy and people having been doing it for about a decade.
|
| this is just about some people still being mad that they
| don't get root on a machine they buy. I can understand being
| mad about that, but just say what you mean. don't pretend you
| can't code on it when people have been doing that basically
| since day one.
| usrn wrote:
| No. I've tried coding on these machines. All your tools
| _must_ run in an interpreter so they 're ridiculously slow
| and the thing gets uncomfortably hot and you can't look at
| anything else or the app will get closed. It's actually
| fucking terrible.
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| > answers that boil down to "buy a $5 app."
|
| Written by...who knows.
| irrational wrote:
| What drives me nuts is there aren't any good git
| integration apps that don't require a subscription or have
| a high yearly price.
| mattkevan wrote:
| Check out Working Copy. No subscription, just an IAP
| unlock for the full version. And it's really good.
| woevdbz wrote:
| Curious if the web based version of vs code works for this?
| donbrae wrote:
| It works quite well (I have it 'installed' as a home screen
| app). You can open individual files or remote repos, but not
| local folders. Seems responsive.
| monkin wrote:
| When using Blink Shell you can open local files too and
| connect to vps or use other providers like GitHub
| Codespaces.
| [deleted]
| dan-robertson wrote:
| The virtual whiteboard app looks exciting. I've not really been
| able to find any diagram-sketching app I like yet. So I hope it
| works without collaboration.
|
| I'm also excited about lookup being made better. It seems like an
| OS feature that could be much better if someone just spent a year
| trying to come up with new things to look up and adding them.
| Unit conversion is excellent.
| NKosmatos wrote:
| iPadOS 16 and still no multiuser support :-( Why can't we use one
| iPad inside a family, with each user having his/her own apps,
| settings, bookmarks and so on? (Ok I know, Apple needs to sell an
| iPad to each one of us :-) )
| Melatonic wrote:
| Seriously. Ridiculous.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| I know enough families with multiple iPads that I'm assuming
| the answer is that it drives sales
| jclardy wrote:
| 100% at this point. A few years ago Apple introduced a
| classroom feature which is essentially a multi-user mode,
| only for education. It is already essentially built, they
| just have to enable it for general usage.
| lostgame wrote:
| Another pretty brutal failure on Apple's part. There's
| literally no excuse for this beyond greed. Multi user support
| is a base level OS feature.
| floydnoel wrote:
| iPad has had multi user support for quite a while, it is
| necessary for schools, etc. I set it up via Configurator 2. It
| isn't difficult. Send me an email if you need help getting it
| working, happy to help!
| rconti wrote:
| Still no multiuser support?
| wrs wrote:
| But still no calculator!
| kefabean wrote:
| Indeed. Surely the development effort required is a rounding
| error compared to that expended for most of the other
| 'features' announced today. Totally inexplicable!
| chipotle_coyote wrote:
| Saving it for the M3.
| ProfessorZoom wrote:
| The gap between the iPad and 13inch Mac becomes smaller and
| smaller
| [deleted]
| tester89 wrote:
| Overall, it's kind of meh for me. Stage manager is a mashup of
| spaces on Mac and a task manager that takes up wayy more real
| estate than either of those, so it's not super impressive unless
| you're using an external monitor.
|
| What I would've liked to see were more splits in the multitasking
| layouts, so you can show more apps simultaneously, while also
| maximising the screen used for content.
|
| Not even more developments on the "desk-top class apps", the
| default apps are still not Mac-parity. On the API side of thing,
| no API for generic background tasks (like hosting a server for
| instance).
| juve1996 wrote:
| Unless the iPad has a Intel -> Apple silicon change in status
| like the macbooks I don't think I'll ever get excited about it.
|
| It's just a niche product and always will be. Making it more
| like a macbook...just makes it a macbook.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| I am most excited by better support for external monitors. I
| think my Mosh client app is the only thing now that lets me
| really use an external monitor.
|
| I like my M1 MacBook Pro for programming but I other wise usually
| use my small or large iPad Pros. I like Linux for dev, using a
| few application specific VPSs so eventually dropping use of
| laptops will happen for me. Mosh/tmux/EMacs is usually my best
| setup.
| joenathanone wrote:
| I'm wondering if it supports multi monitor or just one external
| display.
| seltzered_ wrote:
| For those who don't want to wait another year for 'further
| versatility', there's a decent number of tablet PCs that can run
| Linux and Gnome (along with Wayland, libadwaita, etc. which are
| improving the tablet experience along with gesture support). Some
| include:
|
| - Lenovo X12 tablet
|
| - Asus ROG flow Z13
|
| - HP Elite X2 (G4 or G8) (what I use)
|
| - Microsoft surface pro (touch support is finally coming for the
| 7+ and 8)
|
| Will you get good battery life or a fault-free experience? No, it
| isn't for everyone. Tablet support might break with new releases.
| But it's been reasonable enough to use as a my only computer for
| a year after being a died in the wool Mac user, and inspired
| exploring more ergonomic forms of mobile computing:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/comments/s6k1qr...
| beepy wrote:
| Is that elbow macaroni in the window corner a new convention in
| iPadOS, echoing I suppose the old diagonal hash marks of
| yesteryear?
|
| I'd have to see it in person, but it looks like "stage manager"
| occupies a lot of screen real estate for something that is
| supposed to improve productivity, and it's not clear to me how it
| plays with iPadOS's existing "split view."
| iMark wrote:
| My hope is that Stage Manager is configurable in a manner
| similar to the dock, such that it can be hidden off screen
| until the cursor hits the edge of the screen.
| rwc wrote:
| That is indeed how it works, in addition to the fact that it
| must be manually enabled in control center.
| beepy wrote:
| How does it work if there's no cursor, in touch-only mode?
| idle_zealot wrote:
| Stage Manager is a mode that can be toggle in quick settings.
| When enabled it replaces Split View and Slide Over for
| multitasking. When Stage View is enabled the "..." button at
| the top of each window can he used to toggle between Stage
| Manager mode and single window mode.
| vletal wrote:
| I am not really sure whether overlapping windows was the thing
| I was missing in iPadOS. I feel like this is gonna fall into
| the "I will get used to it" category.
| mrgalaxy wrote:
| There's literally only one feature on the iPad I want:
| virtualization. Can it do that yet?
| floatboth wrote:
| No, not yet (not without jailbreak, at least).
| https://worthdoingbadly.com/hv/ mentions that M1 iPads "already
| have Hypervisor support unlocked in the kernel" so they might
| be planning something for someday...
| cokeandpepsi wrote:
| Why is this being downvoted? with virtualization you could just
| run a linux distro or whatever and a lot of the complains in
| this thread would be resolved
| rmorey wrote:
| yes, actually: https://getutm.app
| teruakohatu wrote:
| That is emulation, using I would guess qemu. The ipad
| hardware is capable of full hardware virtualization.
| minimaxir wrote:
| > Does this require a jailbreak?
|
| > UTM is supported on iOS 11, 12, and 13 for non-jailbroken
| devices through sideloading. UTM requires a jailbreak to use
| on iOS 14.
| avrionov wrote:
| _The Weather App Comes to iPad_
|
| Finally! 12 years after the first iPad, Apple released a native
| Weather app which doesn't point to a website with ads.
|
| Next year they should release a calculator.
| jiripospisil wrote:
| I wonder what was the real reason behind this. Surely taking
| the iOS's Weather app and scaling it to bigger screens didn't
| take them 12 years. Anyway, I'm glad it's there.
| nojito wrote:
| Integration with dark sky most likely.
| avrionov wrote:
| MKBD asked Craig Federighi in 2020 [1].
|
| Federighi said it would be very easy for Apple to just scale
| the iPhone Weather app to the iPad, but that's not something
| the company wants to do, instead looking to create an app
| that makes use of the larger screen of the iPad in every
| possible way
|
| [1] https://tech.hindustantimes.com/tech/news/apple-exec-
| explain...
| Kon-Peki wrote:
| > makes use of the larger screen of the iPad in every
| possible way
|
| For example, the Xsnow accumulation on the top in-app
| widgets! I wonder - if you shake the iPad, will it clear
| away?
| seltzered_ wrote:
| Funny, I switched to a linux tablet pc last year and at
| one point ran xsnow while running macos in virtualbox.
| mason55 wrote:
| That's an answer but not a reason. Surely it didn't take
| Apple 12 years to figure out how to make an iPad-native
| weather app.
|
| Either they explicitly didn't want to make one for some
| reason or they just didn't care. If they actually wanted to
| make a weather app they could have done it.
| threeseed wrote:
| Because Apple does not have infinite development
| resources.
|
| There have always been far more important things to work
| on than an iPad weather app. In this case they happened
| to get it for free with their Dark Sky acquisition.
| jiripospisil wrote:
| Isn't that exactly what they have done though? I guess they
| were looking but didn't come up with something better.
| [deleted]
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-06-06 23:00 UTC)