[HN Gopher] Overthinking
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       Overthinking
        
       Author : z0mbie42
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2022-06-12 14:55 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (kerkour.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (kerkour.com)
        
       | itsmemattchung wrote:
       | Amazon has an internal tool called "Forte", a tool used once a
       | year for employees to provide "anonymous" feedback for one
       | another. One piece of feedback that cropped up multiple times for
       | me, from multiple people, was that I could improve in "bias for
       | action", akin to analysis paralysis mentioned in the article.
       | 
       | At first, I got a bit defensive ... and in response, I ended up
       | running an experiment, delivering code & written documents that
       | -- inside my head -- felt incomplete, unpolished, not quite at
       | the "bar".
       | 
       | The feedback following?
       | 
       | Overwhelmingly positive.
       | 
       | I had anticipated that my peers and leadership would notice a
       | drop in quality. Instead, I was commended for speed of delivery.
        
       | throwawayarnty wrote:
       | This made me think of science and academia. One of the things
       | that seems to distinguish productive people in science is the
       | balance between "doer" mentality and "thinker" mentality.
       | 
       | Too much "thinker" mentality and the project never goes anywhere.
       | Too much "doer" mentally and the project moves but may go down an
       | unproductive path.
       | 
       | Perhaps an analogy is that "thinker" and "doer" mentalities work
       | together like a stochastic gradient descent algorithm.
       | 
       | The "thinker" mode tries to calculate accurate gradients, but
       | never moves towards the goal.
       | 
       | The "doer" mode takes a step towards the next iteration,
       | regardless of whether you have an accurate gradient already.
       | 
       | Balancing the two correctly can give beautiful momentum dynamics
       | that steers towards your goal.
        
         | glial wrote:
         | > Balancing the two correctly
         | 
         | There are some famous examples complementary and different
         | personalities working together very well, like e.g. Kahneman
         | and Tversky:
         | 
         | https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-two-friends-...
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | A big part of learning this is _not_ overanalyzing past failures.
       | Check and see if you missed something major, but then don 't
       | dwell much on the details; perhaps anything you would have done
       | would have been doomed to failure; it wasn't the time, etc.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | PA Yeomans, the 'other' father of permaculture, had a checklist
         | he called the Scale of Permanence. It's a sort of priority list
         | for irreversible decisions, and is helpful for figuring out if
         | you're expending energy on something that's easy to change
         | later, or rashly deciding on something that is going to be
         | difficult or infeasible to change later.
         | 
         | In a system that favors watching first and acting at the last
         | responsible moment, this is in someways both a counterweight
         | and an anchor for analysis.
         | 
         | There are some ways in which systems thinking is the same no
         | matter what domain you're looking at, and to some extent the
         | ways in which they are different have more to do with lack/lag
         | in cross-domain communication rather than any intrinsic
         | distinctions between the domains. There is probably a Scale of
         | Permanence for creating a business, it's just not called that
         | or nobody has compiled a canonical list from the available
         | sources.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | > PA Yeomans, the 'other' father of permaculture, had a
           | checklist he called the Scale of Permanence.
           | 
           | What an interesting case of nominative determinism.
        
       | contingencies wrote:
       | Living in China it's quite amazing how the business culture
       | differs from many western markets. People seem to throw
       | themselves in to ventures without business plans, market research
       | or specific costings. I suppose that when the cost of failure is
       | reduced, dynamism results, because reaction times to
       | opportunities are reduced and people are able to take the risk of
       | following a new path. These days, when I think of analysis
       | paralysis, I think of conservative traditional western business
       | mindsets. The worst of which, frankly, seem to be continental
       | European and governmental bureaucracies.
       | 
       | FWIW in the last 18 months I recall pitching one major European
       | industrial group requesting specifically disruptive technology
       | for established industries. Considered at the board level, their
       | feedback was unanimously positive: but they could not take the
       | opportunity because it was "too far from existing business
       | lines". If you thought corporate VC was bad, try that in an old-
       | Europe context...
        
         | Deritio wrote:
         | There are not many industry breaking huge china based companies
         | globally in comparison of how many people they have.
         | 
         | Perhaps our way might not be that bad after all.
         | 
         | And while Chinese currently the EV market discovers it's
         | totally unclear how the car industry will look in 10 years
        
         | Archelaos wrote:
         | > If you thought corporate VC was bad, try that in an old-
         | Europe context...
         | 
         | I am not sure whether it is specific for old-Europe or not just
         | a universal symptom for long-running companies unable to re-
         | invent themselves, because they were somehow locked into an
         | established pathway, so that fundamental changes promissing
         | probable benefits in the long run would mean certain short-term
         | losses in the near future due to major investments and
         | canibalization of their legacy businesses. An example outside
         | of Europe seems to be Boeing's stretching of a several-decade-
         | old airplane design towards a limit were it became increasingly
         | problematic, while starting over would have involved extremely
         | large investments and the loss of much of the experience gained
         | from the old design.
         | 
         | On the positive side, such lock-ins of traditional companies
         | can mean sound business opportunities for small newcomers. I
         | was myself working with small dynamic companies in Germany and
         | Austria who were afraid that one day a large, financially
         | strong competitor might decide to copy their successful
         | products and business modell or enter their highly profitable
         | niche market -- however, it never happened. In other words: If
         | the parent is right and established companies in old-Europe are
         | even more unflexible than elsewhere, it should be safer to
         | attempt to disrupt their old-Europe markets than to try the
         | same somewhere else.
        
       | imoverclocked wrote:
       | A refreshingly good take on paralysis by analysis. I have
       | suffered from this in the past as well. I found that having
       | projects that are otherwise meaningless that I can hack together
       | helps. It's almost like a mini hackathon where the only thing
       | that matters is the end product. Maybe I'll choose something
       | completely out of my professional life (eg woodworking with scrap
       | wood) or write something in a language nobody around me likes
       | because it's "ugly."
        
         | wnolens wrote:
         | Kind of like practicing non-perfectionism? I received that
         | advice from a friend once. Pick a domain with much lower
         | stakes, and practice making decisions.
        
           | imoverclocked wrote:
           | Yes, I find failure is a key component here too. Without
           | being able to fail, you get stuck in the perfection loop.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | UIUC_06 wrote:
       | > I've also noticed that, up to a certain point, the smarter a
       | person is, the more it has to be apparent in their work. Every
       | algorithm needs to be perfect, every function needs to be side-
       | effects free, every data structure needs to be the fastest, and
       | every best practice needs to be followed.
       | 
       | Many engineers are somewhere on the Asperger's spectrum, as
       | Temple Grandin tells her Googler audience in [1]. Overthinking is
       | a prime symptom of it. I'm disappointed to see that not even
       | mentioned in this article.
       | 
       | There are some engineering practices that, unfortunately, amplify
       | this rather than tamping it down. Code reviews, in particular,
       | can do that; a reviewer gets points by nitpicking ("you could
       | have done that in one line instead of two!").
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA4tE3_2qmI
        
       | kissiel wrote:
       | Thing that helped me with avoiding this kind of problem was
       | learning about wabi sabi[0]. A mindset of accepting and finding
       | beauty in imperfection.
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi
        
         | blocked_again wrote:
         | Are there any books you recommend?
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | I'd recommend https://metarationality.com/.
           | 
           | It's a book optimized for arguing with rationalists (who
           | among other things think overthinking can solve every
           | problem) so some of the points seem irrelevant to most
           | people, but they can be useful.
        
       | padde wrote:
       | I like the article. The architecture bit I'm not so sure about
       | though. I wish in my company the architects actually did _more_
       | thinking and especially talking  / negotiating with all the other
       | architects of adjacent components. That would really help.
       | Instead they work hard to fix minor problems and build walls in
       | between the components... or yet another middleware-generator-
       | middleware-wrapper.
        
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