[HN Gopher] Stack Overflow Developer Survey 2022 ___________________________________________________________________ Stack Overflow Developer Survey 2022 Author : klez Score : 248 points Date : 2022-06-22 15:05 UTC (7 hours ago) (HTM) web link (survey.stackoverflow.co) (TXT) w3m dump (survey.stackoverflow.co) | bluedino wrote: | I'm kind of shocked at the small amount of developers with > 15 | years experience (as well as the amount with 1-4 years) but I'm | just betting it's more to do with the developers that are more | likely to respond to the survey. | TrackerFF wrote: | I guess either: | | A) The most senior programmers simply don't visit Stack | Overflow that much | | B) The more senior you get, the less actual programming your | work entails, and you again visit Stack Overflow. | | Or something similar. | bombcar wrote: | I assume you mean greater than 15 years, but my experience is | that many of the programmers with 25+ years experience don't | bother with things like Stack Exchange, especially if they're | in a programming world that is "old and out of date" anyway. | ilikehurdles wrote: | 10 years post college experience and I didn't even realize | there was a developer survey to answer. | nomilk wrote: | "Fully remote" is the most common work environment! Wasn't | expecting that, even considering covid. I wonder if employers | will pressure staff to return to the office (e.g. hybrid) and | fully remote will lose that number 1 spot next year. Time will | tell. https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#section-employment- | wor... | yuy910616 wrote: | Udemy coming in at 66% is pretty surprising to me. I personally | purchased some 50 courses on there, and am happy with the result | (especially owning the course and not having to deal with a | subscription), but it is surprising to me that it basically won | that market. It isn't all that friendly to course maker iirc. And | the course quality varies a lot. Its pricing model is also very | shady, giving me the impression that it is a poorly run company. | | Of course - youtube is not included; I imagine that'll really | skew the graph | | edit: shoot, I just checked and I actually purchased 98 courses. | ravenstine wrote: | Yeah, though I thought Udemy had the least favorable reputation | just because of the weird pricing tactics and a lot of courses | being glorified tutorials. There's some great stuff on there, | but I didn't think it would rank that much higher than | Coursera. | jedberg wrote: | > A majority of respondents (75%) have been working for 14 or | fewer years as a professional developer, meaning they've never | worked in a world without Stack Overflow. | | Oh boy did this make me feel old. | vgeek wrote: | The horrors of expertsexchange? | jedberg wrote: | Even worse -- the horrors of having to find a _book_ in the | _library_ to answer your question. | | When I started working all the senior devs had full | bookshelves of O'Reilly books, and if you got stuck you went | to them to either ask a question or use their books. Then as | they left the company, all of us would fight over who got | ownership of the O'Reilly book collection! | TIPSIO wrote: | Interesting as always. It would be great to have a UX to easily | compare the trends, such as 2022 vs 2021 vs 2020 though. Unless I | missed it. | | The "Web framework and technologies" section doesn't seem | accurate to compare in a meaningful way. | | For example, they have Node.js as a standalone option probably | throwing off everything. Then these compare weird when put | together as options: Next, Nuxt, React, Vue, etc. | | Love it or hate it, jQuery was also #3. | pastor_bob wrote: | As an aside, I find the search-ability of this presentation to be | terrible. | | I tried looking for word with CMD+F and the section I was looking | at completely disappeared! | Aachen wrote: | I don't remember last years' but this was pretty mediocre | indeed. E.g. after the first two graphs, I used autoscroll | (middle click, move mouse) so that I 'saw' the whole page and | all the graphs loaded and animations triggered. Then ctrl+up | and read more comfortably. | | How stackoverflow builds this in when flashing content is such | a common annoyance, I don't know. Sure, you don't want to load | a megabyte of data for when people open the page for just 2 | seconds, but there are animations on top of the lazy loading, | the actual data is not that large anyway, and the loading | distance is not hard to increase either. | rurp wrote: | Breaking cmd+f functionality will immediately sour me on a | site. It's surprising how many tech companies go out of their | way to ruin basic behavior like that. | Yuioup wrote: | One web framework I expected to see trend downwards for | professional developers is Angular, slowly being replaced by vue | but my prediction did not seem to come true. | | Angular is steady while vue even trended downwards. | | The absolute king is React. Clearly professional developers are | choosing to go for it because it looks like a safe bet. | runarberg wrote: | They are also choosing it because that's what they know, or | that's what the project lead picked. And the project lead might | have picket it because it is a company policy or because their | manager told them to pick what ever would have the most | available talent, etc. | blablabla123 wrote: | I kind of want to like Angular since it's so nicely integrated. | But working with it is clearly not fun... | agumonkey wrote: | I like vue a lot for weird reasons, but it seems vue3 hit some | roadblocks. The boxed refs are unpretty, and now they look like | react-metoo product. | layer8 wrote: | They don't seem to answer the most important question: Does using | spaces over tabs still predict a higher salary? | kwertyoowiyop wrote: | Tabs, but only when set to three spaces. | ho_schi wrote: | I'm using tabs. Explains a lot... | newaccount2021 wrote: | TrackerFF wrote: | Wonder if that Rust lust comes from Rust developers themselves - | i.e, programmers that use Rust a lot in their spare time, and | really want to use it in their work too. | Macha wrote: | My understanding is this is the generally accepted theory for | most of the highly "want to use" technologies. Likewise the | least "want to use" technologies tend to be business-y type | tools where people might be made to use them for the ease of | other stakeholders, or integration with frameworks only used by | e.g. legacy enterprise software. | pxeger1 wrote: | Could the title be updated to include the word "Results"? When I | saw this, I thought it was the survey itself (which has already | happened, obviously) | whatever1 wrote: | How many web frameworks are people building per day? I built my | last website in 2018 and I cannot recognize any of the top | frameworks listed today by SO. Even worse the frameworks I knew | are now at the bottom lol | pier25 wrote: | Svelte is doing great in the loved/dreaded metric. | | First of all JS technologies. Second overall. | gedy wrote: | I love Svelte and maintain some open source libraries for it, | but in recent job search I was struck by a near total lack of | jobs mentioning it being used. | pier25 wrote: | I don't think it will ever get as big as React or jQuery, but | once SvelteKit is released I expect it to grow much faster. | kertoip_1 wrote: | I wish they asked more about remote working, e.g. "Do you work | for a company that operates overseas?". I'm also curious how does | those answers differ by country: which nationalities are most | open to work remotely for foreign companies? Where do people from | my country work when they work remotely abroad? | juice_bus wrote: | (semi unrelated) Does anyone else find them selves using SO less | and less as you gain more experience? I'm over 10 years now and | rarely find my self on SO. | [deleted] | a_chris wrote: | I can confirm. Also the technology used really counts: with | Javascript I got weird error and there are no standard in the | ecosystem so I found my self looking on Google and SO all the | time. With Ruby, on the other hand, there are better | documentation, no weird errors and everything seems so smooth | that I visit StackOverflow just once a month. I have been | working with JS for 3 years and just 1 year with Rub | vitorsr wrote: | I believe that Stack Overflow belongs to a time when VCS was | the exception rather than the rule, codebases were scattered | across many different providers, discussions took place on | dedicated channels or mailing lists, documentation was scarce | and of poor quality, and tooling was limited to the most | essential. All this added friction to any form of shared | knowledge of being built by the general public. | dgb23 wrote: | I can only talk about my personal experience: | | - Documentation seems to have gotten way better overall. | | - Github issues are often a good place to search for | open/resolved problems. | | - I've simply gotten better at reading and debugging code over | time. | | - There are often chat rooms for larger communities on | Slack/Discord nowadays. You get a more fluent and direct form | of communication there. | | - I still sometimes reach for Stack Overflow. But it tends to | be for things where I'm a total newbie. | bitwize wrote: | Closed. This question does not meet Stack Overflow Guidelines. | It is currently not accepting answers. | mtoddsmith wrote: | There always those really weird esoteric bugs that someone has | already slogged through lots of trial and error to resolve. SO | is great for those kinds of problems. | wizofaus wrote: | Yep - if you're getting a particular error code or message | that makes no sense, googling as often as not finds it in a | SO post, along with 20 ways to solve it, of which at least 1 | usually gives you what you need to do so. It's hard to | imagine how much time I'd have spent tracking it down | otherwise. | runarberg wrote: | I find myself using it equally much, but maybe in a different | way. There are always times I find my self wanting to do | something weird in a framework a specific framework or a | language so I go see if there are already solutions out there. | There are also times where I find an existing question but I'm | not happy with the answers so I write my own after some | research--which I would have hoped to have been able to skip-- | then my answer serves as a reference for the next time I need | to do something similar (which may be as long as a year or two, | so I won't remember). | captainkrtek wrote: | I find this as well. Earlier in my career it was useful, but in | the last bunch of years I rarely if ever am on SO, and if I am, | I'm trying to contribute answers. Wouldn't be surprised if the | survey data is largely skewed to more junior people. | binarymax wrote: | Anecdotally, I find that web search has been doing a much worse | job of recognizing my query and presenting an SO result - which | is why I personally use it less. Blogspam created from scraping | SO has been completely pwning top results in Google and | DDG(bing) and it's really disheartening. | | See for example "geeksforgeeks" and similar sites, which I find | to be a poor and overly verbose resource, which now dominates | the top position | plonk wrote: | > See for example "geeksforgeeks" and similar sites, which I | find to be a poor and overly verbose resource, which now | dominates the top position | | Google Search's and Facebook Messenger's spam filters started | letting tons of garbage through at roughly the same time. I | wonder if the advances in generative deep learning helped | with that. | bil7 wrote: | DDG usually shows a SO preview in the right hand gutter for | code related searches. I guess that must be a bing feature. | binarymax wrote: | It does when it works, but I've found it to work less often | these days. | [deleted] | heretogetout wrote: | StackOverflow has become nearly useless because they don't | mandate version numbers on questions and answers. I never start | searches on SO and walk away empty handed probably 95% of the | time I find my way there. | Aachen wrote: | I was actually part of a study on improving that. They | selected for some criteria that I'm not privy to, but part of | it was being active on the site. Iirc only a few hundred | meeting invites went out in total. Some of the questions I | was asked were also geared towards validating the problem so | they could present it to management and get more manpower on | solving it. | | Since then I've seen sorting by 'recently most voted' being | used by default sometimes, but I still have to read up on the | actual results. They're somewhere on meta SO or meta SE. | heretogetout wrote: | Part of the problem is the attitude that questions are | duplicates of questions posted 10 years ago, so they get | closed without answers. I am not sure recently most voted | is enough. I think the culture needs to change | substantially, maybe figure out some way to discourage | closing as duplicate (cost N*5 points where N is the age of | the supposed duplicate in months or years). Make it really | expensive. | TheCapn wrote: | Maybe my attitude is wrong, but I've always felt the onus | is on the Question asker to dictate that they've found | the old answers and provide explanation to why they're no | longer relevant to the problem. "I've already tried | solutions from <x>,<y>, and <z> but they use functions | depreciated in 2.1 and I'm using 3.0." | | I do recognize the problem you're describing though. I | think I've developed this mindset because I stopped | helping out in StackOverflow a lot due to the low quality | of many questions. I did a bit of time moderating with | the intent to teach new users how to improve their | questions, but ultimately the amount of users who want | quick answers outpaces my patience so I just moved on. I | follow two niche categories now that I consider myself an | expert in and that's about all I help out with anymore. | heretogetout wrote: | Yeah, questioners should be encouraged to include version | numbers. Ideally there would be a specific mandatory | field for a version number. I'm honestly shocked there | isn't one, it seems so obvious there's no way I'm the | first to think of it. | kitsunesoba wrote: | Absolutely. Two of the big reasons are improved understanding | and problem solving skills on my part and improvements in the | tech stack I use day to day making things more clear and | covering more use cases cleanly. | | The third is that I've come to recognize that the average | quality of answers on SO is quite poor -- while they | technically serve as solutions to posted problems, they often | come with big caveats... use of private/deprecated APIs, | hackiness, and feature misuse abound. | | As such when I use SO these days it's usually not for wholesale | solutions to problems but rather to add to a greater body of | examples of APIs in action which I can then abstract and use as | needed. It's decent for this use case. | plonk wrote: | > The third is that I've come to recognize that the average | quality of answers on SO is quite poor -- while they | technically serve as solutions to posted problems, they often | come with big caveats... use of private/deprecated APIs, | hackiness, and feature misuse abound. | | The real clean answer is usually a mildly upvoted comment | that scolds the answerer for violating a standard or using a | bad practice. SO is still useful when that happens. | [deleted] | figassis wrote: | I find that in recent years my best resources are official docs | because that's where I find the "obvious" answers to the issue | I'm having by not having previously read the docs. I also find | lots of answers in gh issues (often unresolved) where I gain | insight into what might be happening so I can come up with a | solution. SO answers that I find useful are usually ones which | link to related docs. | pasc1878 wrote: | Why is that in recent years. The best resources have always | been thofficial docs and that has not changed since before | SO. The issue is that official docs are often not good and | you need pointers too them. In fact I would say that official | docs are getting worse and you need more help from SO now. | | Agreed that github issues are very useful for understanding. | But even there for popular reps there are too many stupid | questions to wade through. | Macha wrote: | Broadly, yes. It's been years since I asked a question, and for | searching and finding an answer, github issues has replaced it. | stemlord wrote: | That would be great. I work in a generalist type of field where | learning new tools is part of the job so I am still googling | the same stupid questions almost every day | plonk wrote: | I google the same git commands three times a day and end up | on stackoverflow. Everything else is answered by the github | issue comment with 10 emojis under it. | clumsysmurf wrote: | It probably depends on the technology you are using. For | example, the Android conceptual guides are very good, but the | javadoc / references are abysmal. You simply can't get anything | done without SO because its more authoritative than the Android | javadoc. | cpascal wrote: | I probably take more guidance from blog articles and GitHub | issue comments than I do from StackOverflow. I think this | started to happen for me around 2015/2016. I'm not sure though | if that's a function of me requiring more niche/targeted | guidance, or StackOverflow no longer capturing as much | knowledge as it once did. | lawn wrote: | In the beginning I used SO a ton, both asking questions and | using existing answers. | | But now I can't remember the last time I visited SO and I | stopped asking questions many years ago. | | This is true even when learning new languages and other things. | jjslocum3 wrote: | I was asking myself similar questions after finding that the | survey results bore little resemblance to what I've encountered | in the US software industry in the last few years (I've been at | it for decades). My first hunch is that the results say more | about SO survey takers than about the actual software industry | - similar to how various political polls (e.g. FoxNews, | Politico) seem skewed towards the bias of the polling | organization. My second hunch is that it's a big world, and I | and my colleagues may just inhabit a bubble far from the center | of the bell curve. | | These days, the only time I drop into SO is when a "how do you | do that again?" search yields a relevant-looking question asked | within the last year or so. As often as not, the search leads | me to a blog post or primary source (e.g. mozilla javascript | documentation). But when I do make it to SO, I find that it's | still a bustling community full of legitimate expert guidance. | shagie wrote: | Yes. Several parts to it. | | 1) My experience is greater. Many of the problems that I | encountered before, I know how to solve. | | 2) I know what knowledge I'm looking for if I don't know the | answer. Instead of searching for the problem I am having (and | ending up on SO), I am searching for the specific part of the | documentation that I need for solving the problem that I have. | | 3) I tend to bias to project specific knowledge now. The | general pollution of search on Stack Overflow means that it is | more productive to search Spring documentation or the project | specific forums ( https://github.com/spring-projects/spring- | kafka/discussions ) rather than Stack Overflow itself. | | 4) Stack Overflow content is having difficulty with the lack of | curation of old answers and the deceased quality of people | answering now. Finding an answer written in recent times with a | few variations on "have you tried {x}?" without the material | leading to how that suggestion was derived means that trying to | apply the answer is shotgun "maybe this works" without an | understanding for _how_ it works or if that is the right | solution. | | 4b) I try to avoid the "have you tried {x}" answers as that | impacts the rate I grow my experience (and thus part 1) at. | Likewise, in general, people who try the shotgun solutions (and | I can see that in code reviews if they're not good about | cleaning up (and they aren't) tend to continue to make the same | type of errors again as they are following cookbook / paint by | numbers approaches rather than understanding some basic food | science or aesthetic theory. | [deleted] | billpg wrote: | I answered "Very Favorable" to "How favorable are you about | blockchain, crypto, and decentralization?" | | I am indeed very favorable indeed to decentralization. | | I also think blockchains are almost always a waste of electricity | by computers pointlessly playing Numberwang all day. (I'm not | quite sure if "almost" is needed there.) | bitwize wrote: | "Pointlessly playing Numberwang all day" is _the_ best, most | accurate description of blockchain activity I 've ever heard. | boardwaalk wrote: | I agree this is a very unfortunate grouping of topics. The | irony is that there's a lot of cryptocurrency stuff that isn't | even well decentralized, so it's almost an objectively bad | grouping. | butterNaN wrote: | I went through 'I need to learn a new language' phase a few weeks | ago. | | I decided to go with Elixir because it seems fun (I have no | Functional experience). However, I am seriously considering Rust, | because it seems so universally loved. | | Maybe the grass is greener on the other side? | | I will definitely pick up Rust when I feel I am comfortable | enough with Elixir. | | I primarily want to work with Distributed Systems, but It seems | the best 'setup' is Elixir for Distribution logic and Rust for | leaf-nodes-number-crunching logic. | kretaceous wrote: | I'll politely hijack this thread to ask for suggestions about | what functional language to learn next. | | I have no functional experience apart from dealing with | similar, toned down concepts in JavaScript. | | I was considering Clojure or Elixir depending on tooling, | ecosystem, market worth and most importantly, what can it teach | me. | | The reason I got inclined to Elixir was to learn | Phoenix/LiveView. The reason for Clojure was it's very much | adored here and it seems a good starting language for FP. | | Rust is in my list but maybe sometime later this year. | H12 wrote: | As someone pretty plugged-in to the Elixir community, I can | fully endorse it. There are a lot of really exciting new | developments happening on the regular, but it also has really | solid foundation, being built on the BEAM (Erlang's VM). | | As a language, the syntax is pragmatic and approachable like | Ruby, but the VM scales super well since it's Actor model | provides concurrency by default. | | There are even projects working to enable GPU-accelerated | numerical computations (Elixir Nx) and Jupiter Notebook style | collaboration and code sharing. | | If you're primary goal is to learn something fun that's also | great for getting actual work done, you'll probably really | like Elixir. | | My recommended introduction would be installing it, and | running through their official guide from the top: | | http://elixir-lang.org/getting-started/introduction.html | ducharmdev wrote: | While I like the functional aspects of Rust, not sure I would | call it a functional language - still very much worth | learning though. | | Maybe a slightly unconventional answer, but F# is quite nice. | | https://fsharpforfunandprofit.com/ | cigrainger wrote: | They work really well together. Check out Rustler.[1] | | [1]: https://github.com/rusterlium/rustler | lawn wrote: | Both Rust and Elixir are languages people generally love, and I | too really like them both. | Taywee wrote: | I'd recommend Rust even if just because the available material | for learning it is really good: https://www.rust-lang.org/learn | | I'm just recommending Rust in general, not over Elixir, because | I've never used Elixir and have no experience in that area. | Rust is a pretty easy language to love. | politelemon wrote: | > A Linux-based OS is more popular than macOS - speaking to the | appeal of using open source software. | | I'm glad to see this, and I hope this trend can continue. Though | I wish I worked for such a company, and I friendly-envy people | who have such a privilege. | ask_b123 wrote: | I always miss out on answering these surveys and only remember | their existence when the results come out. | jarek83 wrote: | Salary part - I wonder if those results make much sense. I | remember that question did not specify the currency and also the | previous question to it was the country of origin, which could | suggest to use your local currency. At least I was not sure what | to put there. | jedberg wrote: | It blows my mind that 72% of developers love Slack. I absolutely | hate it with a passion. It's like someone walking up to your | desk, except we made it way easier because they don't have to get | up and feel the social pressure of waiting for you to stop what | you're doing and take off your headphones. | mulmen wrote: | It's IRC without the headaches. | jedberg wrote: | I have the same complaint about IRC. :). I'm ok with both | Slack and IRC for collaborating on an immediate problem, like | an outage, but I hate having it just sit there as a way for | someone to ping me any time. | mulmen wrote: | Sure but your complaint is about chat apps, not Slack | specifically. For the people who "love" Slack it is just | IRC but easier. | boredtofears wrote: | It's about the proliferation of slack being treated as | the primary mode of communication at many companies now | instead of email. | | I'd much prefer default asynchronous communication than | default real time communication (or some kind of hellish | mixture of the two). | jedberg wrote: | That's fair, but even between slack and IRC I much prefer | IRC for real time collaboration and any chat app for one | on on conversations. | | Slack threads are the worst thing to happen to IRC. Pick | a modality. Is it a real time conversation or | asynchronous threads? And then having one on one and | group collaborations in the same place means both are | done poorly. | | It also means the notifications for both get mixed | together. I want to get notified when someone posts to a | group in slack, and I also want to get notified when I | have a direct message, but not at the same time. | mulmen wrote: | I love threads. They're lightweight channels. In large, | busy channels it allows parallel conversations. I see no | reason a thread would be strictly asynchronous or real | time. That's an organizational expectation. And anyone | who expects real-time responses outside of a call needs | to come back down to Earth. | VirusNewbie wrote: | My company basically uses slack as an improved email. We don't | expect immediate responses unless we specifically tag someone | and say ASAP or whatnot. Works out well. | windows_sucks wrote: | I think you can disable notifications, so you're not disturbed | jedberg wrote: | You can, but people get annoyed if you don't respond quickly, | because they expect a quick response, otherwise they would | send an email. | loudmax wrote: | This is really a social problem, not a technical problem. | The technology for instant communication exists and it | isn't going to disappear. Your coworkers need to learn to | give people space to do their job. Sorry that's scant | comfort if that's what your workplace is like. | cudgy wrote: | Or is it a technical problem that creates a social | problem, thereby making the technology the problem? | jedberg wrote: | It's a product marketing problem, specially Slack's. They | market it as an instant communication product, but then | they put threading and other asynchronous type modalities | into it. | | I have no problem with instant chat apps. I can set | myself as away and people know not to expect a response. | | But in slack it's a group conversation with the | expectation of instant response, because that's how they | market it. | cauthon wrote: | Note that all of these percentages are a little misleading. | It's the percentage of developers who responded to the | question, not the percentage of developers who participated in | the survey. | | For the slack question, it's 72% of 34,440 responses (24,635 | love vs 9,805 dread), or about 36% of the 70,000 participants | (with ~50% of participants giving no response and I'm assuming | therefore being neutral or having no experience.) | slindsey wrote: | Does your company culture expect immediate response? I like it | because we treat it like short-form email, maybe with a slight | expectation of quicker response. If I send you an email, it | will have some detail and please get back to me within a few | days. If I send you a slack message, I expect a sentence or two | and a response today or tomorrow. | jedberg wrote: | I've never worked anywhere that didn't expect an immediate | response from Slack. If they wanted a delayed response, | they'd send an email. | | Worse yet, if I try to enforce that myself by not responding, | there is a whole conversation in the channel before I get | there and then I have to respond to all the messages in a | mess of threads or some big long response block. | scarface74 wrote: | I very much have "deep work" time where I turn off | everything. If there is a house on fire emergency, they can | use our paging app that can bypass DND on the phone. | ozim wrote: | You know you set the expectations. Is it firing offense if | you reply in 30 mins. | runarberg wrote: | My interpretation: Devs like the experience of interactive | instant messaging without any hassle and simply equate Slack | with that experience. Slack is really pervasive in our industry | despite its subpar experience for developers. | | I largely agree with 72% of developers here, although I would | gladly swap it out for something better. The notification | scheme is good enough. I don't like to be disturbed a lot, so I | disable sound notifications, and just notice the red dot in the | browser tab occasionally (which I promptly ignore if I don't | want to stop and read messages). | gdsdfe wrote: | Wait so in Canada a student is payed $116k+ more than a data | scientist or a data engineer or a backend developer etc. ?!? How | does that make any sense ? | prohobo wrote: | I love that C++ developers only want to work with C++ and Python, | while nearly everyone else is doing web stuff. | a_e_k wrote: | 1. It's a combination that hits the sweet spot for the | "alternate hard and soft layers" architecture. | | 2. Python is quick to write for scripts, one-offs, and things | that don't need to the performance of C++. | | 3. The ecosystem is fairly stable and low-drama. | | (Speaking as one of those C++ and Python devs.) | TillE wrote: | This is hilarious because that's literally me. I use C++ | professionally and where it's appropriate for hobby stuff, and | Python for nearly everything else. | | Ok I also use C# for the parts of game development where Python | is too slow / not well integrated, but C++ would be overkill. | | But web dev? No way. Trendy new languages? Meh. | jarek83 wrote: | I wonder if there might be a bias in lang/framework popularity | results towards those that give more challenge to devs. Like the | more problems you have with a tool the more often you go to SO | and it makes it more likely to fill the survey. | treis wrote: | (1) My poor back button | | (2) Those YoY salary increases are bonkers | | (3) Poor Ruby on Rails. Seems to be slowly sliding into | irrelevance in the face of stiff competition. | tra3 wrote: | Rails is boring tech [0] now. Phoenix seems to top the "wanted" | listed, but it only has about a ~1000 respondents. If I had to | guess I'd say js/typescript will eventually eat rails, django | etc. If I started coding today, or indeed within the last 10 | years, it's not clear why I would choose anything other than | Javascript. | | [0]: https://mcfunley.com/choose-boring-technology | mayormcheeseman wrote: | I really want to learn Rust, but I just don't have enough time in | the day to commit to learning it if I'm not going to be able to | find a job with it that doesn't involve blockchain or | cryptocurrencies. | | Can anyone tell me how the general Rust job market looks for you | guys outside of things like Indeed? | jonteru wrote: | Interesting results as always, but on the salary side I find it | really hard to believe that on the executive level (C suite/VP) | the median annual salary is just 6k bigger than that of | engineering managers. I'd imagine not a lot of executives respond | to this survey so that probably skews the results. | StevenWaterman wrote: | A 3-person startup probably has a CEO, probably doesn't have an | engineering manager | wiseowise wrote: | > Interesting results as always, but on the salary side I find | it really hard to believe that on the executive level (C | suite/VP) the median annual salary is just 6k bigger than that | of engineering managers. | | C suite/VP that receive salary that is substantially higher | than engineering managers don't sit on StackOverflow. | ctvo wrote: | Surprising for me: AWS's market share is still Azure + GCP | combined amongst professional developers [1]. With various | articles about Microsoft's success I was expecting lower. The | same for loved / dreaded. AWS scores significantly better [2] in | terms of loved over other cloud platforms. Being in the HN bubble | I was expecting that to be lower also. The other items that | scored high on loved / dreaded were mostly new technologies vs. | dominant incumbents. | | 1 - https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#most-popular- | technolog... | | 2 - https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#most-loved-dreaded- | and... | clumsysmurf wrote: | As an Android developer since 2009, I will not touch anything | from Google ever again. Its a very asymmetrical relationship, | and if something goes wrong, like your account gets suspended, | its a Kafkaesque nightmare, with usually no recourse. | geek_at wrote: | same goes for other platforms too, you know. | | The only advantage for Android is that you can theoretically | also just distribute via sideloading | npalli wrote: | Regarding Azure, it is quite possible the primary developers | are corporate/in-house types and not big on responding to this | particular survey. About 70,000 developers (in total) responded | which is a small fraction of the developer universe. | swyx wrote: | always the same criticism with surveys. and yet this is one | of the biggest surveys in the world. one has to try. | isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: | And I believe microsoft counts their SaaS offerings in their | Azure usage, which significantly skews the numbers. | andsoitis wrote: | Of the ~52k responses: | | - almost 33% of people have programmed professionally for less | than 4 years | | - just over 27% have programmed professionally between 5 and 9 | years. | ARandomerDude wrote: | I suspect junior developers care a lot more about Stack | Overflow than more experienced developers. When I first started | my career, I looked at SO at least daily. Now (10 years later), | I look at it maybe monthly when I'm searching for a solution to | a weird library/config issue. | | If that hunch is correct, it would explain why the data are so | skewed towards people with less than 5 years of professional | experience. | Washuu wrote: | 30 years of coding experience here.(Professional + student) I | only end up on Stack Overflow for cryptic regex stuff that I | forgot and ffmpeg syntax. | Barrera wrote: | > Clojure remains the highest-paid language to know. | | Any ideas around why that could be? | caterwhal wrote: | I've been a professional Clojure developer for some time now. | My main observation when it comes to this is that Clojure is | often picked to solve particular problems based on the | capabilities it offers over other languages very deliberately. | I've seen quite a few cases where an organization had attempted | to solve a really high value problem with a more mainstream | language, realized that it was next to impossible to succeed | that way, and then tried Clojure with great results. In short, | oftentimes Clojure makes it easy to solve really difficult | problems and expert Clojure developers are in short supply. | | Some examples of problems that I've seen Clojure excel in | solving: 1. Complex rule modeling 2. Optimization systems 3. | Big Data pipelines 4. Highly concurrent systems 5. Streaming | systems | yen223 wrote: | My hypothesis is that Clojure doesn't get used outside of the | US, and so the median salary isn't pulled down by the | comparatively lower salaries outside of the US | askonomm wrote: | Tons of Clojure in Europe. Especially Northern Europe. | Following the job boards and Clojurians Slack channel's #jobs | channels I figure it's about 50/50 for US and EU. | ilikehurdles wrote: | Many people using clojure were already senior level engineers. | Few jump into clojure (or elixir or some of those other top | languages) straight out of college. They make conscious choices | to introduce these technologies to their companies or to seek | out companies that utilize them, which implies they're at a | level where they're able to exert more influence. | rr888 wrote: | Because there is like one project and they had to pay a fortune | to find anyone. | capableweb wrote: | Common trope which if you'd actually read through any real- | world data, is nowhere near to be true. | | One basic example: https://jobs.braveclojure.com/, five pages | of jobs that are all about Clojure (and some others languages | + Clojure) | | Not to mention when you're running a Clojure company and you | go out to find candidates, most of them are really good and | you won't have to look for very long, as long as you can | compensate them well, as the competition between companies | (for candidates) is fierce. | ilikehurdles wrote: | And few clojure shops will require previous experience with | clojure. The ones I've worked on have all welcomed | engineers new to the language, which on its own is a | refreshing approach to hiring. I don't think highly of | companies that hire at the level of specificity of "X years | in Y technology". | | Good engineering principles translate across stacks. | NKosmatos wrote: | When you see (once more) that despite your 20 years of experience | you're being paid less that what students are being paid in other | countries :-) (yes people, I know it's my fault that I'm still | staying at this job... no need for downvotes or negative | comments). | anticristi wrote: | Depending on your geography, it might be a fair price to pay | for universal healthcare, free daycare and university for your | kids, as well as having a notion of evening and weekend. | | I'm still looking for a golden tool to convert total | compensation plus geography into expected happiness. | mminer237 wrote: | The average American pays 10% of his income on healthcare | expenses. [1] That would mean it would be around $5,000/year. | The US charges maybe $30,000 more for college than some | cheaper countries. With two kids, that's maybe $1,500/year | amortized over a career. | | Those aren't going to be worth it for the average person | unless you live in Norway, Luxembourg, or the UAE. I doubt | there's any country where those outweigh the average | programmer salary difference, let alone after taxes. Even if | you have a serious health condition and crappy health | insurance, deductibles cap out at $7,000/year. | | [1]: https://www.advisory.com/daily- | briefing/2019/05/02/health-ca... | jrochkind1 wrote: | you are not alone | wiseowise wrote: | Surprised at average Ocaml salary. But then Jane Street folks, | probably, don't use platforms like StackOverflow. | acchow wrote: | It's because Ocaml is from France and is taught in many schools | in France. Europe overall has much lower salaries than the US. | viggity wrote: | Is the raw data available? | jesprenj wrote: | +1. The website is unusably slow for me. | usrbinbash wrote: | Docker going strong :-) | | Unsurprising, really. The usefulness of it cannot be overstated. | | Doesn't even matter if its used anywhere in the deployment chain; | simply having the ability to pull up a replica of almost any *nix | environment on my laptop _in mere seconds_ , using it for tests, | and then throwing it away resetting it _again in mere seconds_ is | beyond awesome, no matter if what I 'm working on then goes into | a huge complicated deployment chain, or is shoved onto some on- | premises, zero-abstractions, baremetal server. | | And how is it all configured? Plain text files. How is it | controlled? Command Line. Meaning I can script it every way I | want, using the tools I already have and use. Doesn't get in the | way, doesn't demand that I work around it...it works with me and | my tools in the same way they already work together. | | Oh, and of course, good bye and good riddance to the days when I | had to install and configure local RDMS for tests. Everything I | use has an official image, so I just write some small setup | script, a Dockerfile, knit everything together in a docker- | compose.yml and presto, done: Application stack is up and | running. | | To me, Docker is as essential as my text editor these days. | KronisLV wrote: | > Unsurprising, really. The usefulness of it cannot be | overstated. | | Furthermore, in addition to the points you mentioned, it also | lets us: - trivially remap ports to whatever we | want (and expose whichever we'd like to the outside) - | easily set resource limits, so your instance of MariaDB doesn't | bring the whole server down and make it unresponsive - | abstract away storage, in case you want a specific directory | for your backups instead of following HFS (say, just have /app, | treating the rest of the server as throwaway) - perhaps | most importantly, your host OS is now separate from the actual | containers that you are running, updating/redeploying either | becomes a breeze | | Recently, I actually decided to build my own containers for all | of my personal use cases and it's been an interesting | experience: I base everything on a LTS version of Ubuntu and | just use apt for getting all of the runtimes (Node, Java, .NET, | PHP, Ruby, Python, ...) for my own software, and so far it's a | nice experience. | | All I need is the base Ubuntu image from Docker Hub and the | rest is up to me and the regular mirrors/repositories for the | software packages in question, most of which can be stored on | my own Nexus instance as needed, as well as the whole build | process is primarily driven through Gitea, Drone CI and a few | "servers" (repurposed old computers with passive cooling) that | I have on my desk. | | Though for now I also use Bitnami images for databases and | such, which are also decent and which I largely just cache on | my end: https://bitnami.com/stacks/containers | | So what I'm trying to say, is that there's a lot of flexibility | that you can enjoy, both in making your own "templates" for web | servers, programming languages, build toolchains etc., as well | as you can grab pre-made stuff that other people have made, be | it on Docker Hub, someone's Nexus/Artifactory/Harbor instance | or another registry out there. | | Docker and other OCI compatible tools have largely achieved the | sort of adoption and widespread usage that projects like Nix | and Guix could also benefit from. | mynameisash wrote: | I sorta learned a little about Docker+Kubernetes on a previous | project, and it was a nightmare. I don't have a good mental | delineation between the two products because the whole thing | was a trainwreck, though I'm inclined to think that 95% of the | horribleness was K8s. | | That said, I also don't remember the Docker documentation to be | very good. For someone that doesn't work with it | professionally, what's a good starting point to learn Docker | well? | [deleted] | EnKopVand wrote: | Are you sure you need to learn Docker well? I ask this | because I use docker on a daily basis, but I rarely actually | "use" docker. What I mean by this is that we deploy | everything using docker, but it's handled by our DevOps | pipeline and the "docker" part is really just a dockerfile | that is typically given to us by our cloud vendor. I think | the only thing I've changed in ours for nodejs, c#, Python | and go images is the image version they get build with. | | Lets say I want to write a typescript microservice and deploy | it to azure as a serverless functions app. I'll fork our bare | metal nodejs project for azure functions, which is | essentially the standard azure cli "create nodejs function | -typescript -docker" (this isn't correct syntax but you get | it) with the linting and ts-compiling rules we use on all our | projects (and an updated image version in the docker file as | mentioned). While I build things and run them locally, I | don't use docker, it's not until I actually want to deploy to | azure and setup the release pipeline and trigger it that | docker comes into play, but those DevOps steps (also | streamlined) aren't really docker heavy as they simply use | the dockerfile that was mostly provided by Microsoft. | | I can certainly build and run my micro service as a docker | container locally, but I don't need to. In fact the only | times I did was when it failed to build during the azure | pipeline but it turned out to be the azure container registry | access controls every single time that happened, so these | days I almost never "use" docker. In fact I use it so rarely | I almost always have to Google command lines. | | I know people use docker in many different ways, and that | many use things like docker compose, but my point is that you | can deploy everything you build with docker and never | actually have to care much about docker itself. So maybe you | should ask yourself if you really need to learn docker good | before you spend too much time on it. | tacker2000 wrote: | Though k8s works with docker, you shouldnt need to use it off | the bat, especially in the beginning without having lots of | experience with docker itself. Most projects dont need k8s | and i personally have never used it. | | I agree the docker docs are lacking, i basically learned | everything by googling stuff, stack overflow and reading some | blog posts | Taywee wrote: | I find for builds especially it's invaluable. I have a Makefile | that builds Docker images and runs build processes for all 4 | supported versions of Debian, 3 LTS versions of Ubuntu, RHEL7, | and Fedora 35 and 36. It builds and packages the software on | all of these, giving me debs and rpms for every relevant distro | ("relevant" meaning distros used for servers or workstations | for any of our employees and clients). | | I then have another set of docker images for making package | repositories and signing everything. | | I do have a lot of mostly-redundant dockerfiles in some places, | but in others I've managed to leverage m4 to reduce the | redundancy (though I'm trying to keep it as slim as possible to | avoid the pain of turning everything into a convoluted set of | impossible-to-maintain macros). | | Before this, I was using Vagrant and Ansible for builds, which | was slow, memory hungry, and frustrating to debug. Not to | mention that dependencies that needed to be built statically | couldn't be easily cached, which comes out of the box with | Docker. | toastal wrote: | And yet here I am having used Docker like 3 times. I've used | Heroku, Nix, or even just versions through asdf if necessary | and been fine--though Nix is the only truly reproducible option | here. None of these options involved containers or overhead. | seabrookmx wrote: | What overhead? | mulmen wrote: | The virtual machine? | mandarax8 wrote: | What virtual machine? | city41 wrote: | Docker requires a Linux VM when not ran on Linux. | noisem4ker wrote: | ... unless you're running Windows containers (on | Windows). | KronisLV wrote: | > ... unless you're running Windows containers (on | Windows). | | But aren't most Windows containers a bit on the heavier | side? And don't you then need to also use the whole MS | server setup for deploying your stuff to prod, which is a | no-no in certain settings? | | Edit: provided that you can even find an image for the | software you need (from an official provider/latest | versions/with proper instructions and source). Consider | the following: - https://hub.docker.com/s | earch?q=postgres&operating_system=windows - https:/ | /hub.docker.com/search?q=postgres&operating_system=linux | | Then again, WSL2 is pretty okay for running *nix based | OCI containers, apart from the file permissions (SSH keys | and anything like that is a pain, especially with bind | mounts). | | Even a Hyper-V VM was a decent choice, though any sort of | a performance overhead was also negligible - I've heard | the story being worse on OS X in regards to disk | performance, though not sure whether that's still | relevant. The worst thing about Docker on Windows has | generally been the weird bind mount syntax for the | Windows file system paths (not too bad, to be honest) as | well as the whole file permission thing, as well as the | Hyper-V approach eating some of your RAM in the | background. | | Apart from that, it's _mostly_ passable, though Docker | /Podman on *nix is comparatively painless. Though I could | say that about most development ecosystems, from PHP to | Java. Windows is just generally better for certain | classes of desktop software and gaming, *nix is generally | better for most development related tasks and servers. | /opinion | lmarcos wrote: | > simply having the ability to pull up a replica of almost any | *nix environment on my laptop | | Umm, I struggle with that. I have Ubuntu machines that run in | production. They are VMs that run systemd for some stuff and | Docker containers for others. The only way to (easily) | replicate such machines on my laptop is via VMs (e.g., Vagrant | + VMware), not via Docker only. | | I do use Docker a lot... Inside VMs. | _ZeD_ wrote: | > Unsurprising, really. The usefulness of it cannot be | overstated. | | meh, I can count on my hand the times it was useful to me. | | oh, and having to deal with docker desktop is not fun | swyx wrote: | fwiw you can run docker without docker desktop now | https://www.swyx.io/running-docker-without-docker-desktop/ | umvi wrote: | Well yeah, Docker + Windows isn't the best experience. I | recommend WSL if you must go down that route. | tester756 wrote: | I wish installing Docker inside WSL2 wasn't so problematic | - the networking part to make it work is messy | GordonS wrote: | It used to be a bit flakey pre-WSL2 integration ~2-3 years | back - it's been absolutely rock solid for me on Windows | since then, just like on Linux. | skinnyarms wrote: | Same, I can't even remember the last time it's crashed | for me or anybody on my team. | folkrav wrote: | You don't even have to bother with Docker Desktop these | days, you can start it in `/etc/wsl.conf` directly with | `service start docker` and forget about it, it'll start | with the VM. I think this is a rather new feature though. | plonk wrote: | > oh, and having to deal with docker desktop is not fun | | To stay sane, just forget it exists until it crashes | irretrievably, then reinstall it and repeat. Containers and | images being disposable is the whole point anyway. | mythrwy wrote: | Not denying the potential usefulness, but I've seen a lot of | time get lost to faffing around with Docker when it completely | added nothing at all. | melony wrote: | Except when it comes to paying for it. Developer tooling is | still a dead end business model if you are not subsidized by a | bigger company. | scarface74 wrote: | One of my updated "Joel Test" job requirements is "do you give | each developer access to a dev cloud account with fairly wide | guardrails." | | I would much rather just spin up all my resources on a dev | cloud account using CloudFormation/Terraform, and spend them | down when I'm done. | | Before I get (rightfully) called out. Yes I work at AWS now. | But I also found that just as appealing three years ago when I | worked at a 60 person company. | shagie wrote: | Students claim to have 4.86 years (on average) of professional | experience. O_o | | The lowest years of experience of actual professionals belongs | to... blockchain developers with 9.63 years (on average) of | professional experience. | kiernanmcgowan wrote: | My guess is that there's some sampling bias for the student | population - if you're plugged in enough to be doing this | survey you've probably been hacking for a while. | | Fwiw, I started getting paid for slinging code at 16, | maintained the website for a university group in college, while | still doing other work in the summers. I probably would have | answered with "6 years of experience" if asked when I | graduated. | | Is that truly "professional experience"? In retrospect probably | not, but 22yo me would have been too stubborn to answer | otherwise. | tester756 wrote: | Do you take hours ratio into the account? | | e.g if you've been working 4h a week, | | then it'd be weird to say after year that you have 1 year of | commercial experience, when your colleagues spent 40 hours / | week and have "only" 1 year too | | I believe that pay is not necessary, but working for somebody | else or in team (e.g OSS) is necessary. | | So yea, I wouldn't say that hacking something even cool, but | alone is commercial xp. | kerblang wrote: | Just a note, the comment is quoting from this: | | https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#section-experience-yea... | | BTW many people go (back) to school after obtaining some | professional experience. Not sure about the context of this | part of the poll though. | shagie wrote: | The 4.86 years of experience is the mean of the 677 | respondents who indicated student. | | Going back to school after a few years is one thing... (and I | lack the median, but I'm going to guess that it isn't too far | from the mean) but having _most_ students go back to school | after 4 years of professional experience seems a bit odd. | | I really suspect that they're either counting their 2 months | of summer internship as a year several times over, misreading | the professional part of it and including hobby, or | misreading the professional and considering that they're a | senior with 3 years of academic experience which translates | 1:1 with professional, so they'll put that down. | | The issue is that type of "something is fishy here" without | further drilling into it makes me more skeptical of other | data outliers and suspect more reporting and analysis issues | than a (self reported) poll can be trusted. | BlargMcLarg wrote: | >Students claim to have 4.86 years (on average) of professional | experience. O_o | | You've heard of "5 years of experience" entry level jobs, now | meet the "5 years of experience" students | bierjunge wrote: | The eight Canadian students claim to have an income of (avg) | $116,850.5. I think it's time for me to move to Canada. | | https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#salary-canada | trinovantes wrote: | Those are probably 16-month (effectively fulltime) coop | students working at big tech/finance. By senior year some | of my classmates were making 10-12k/month. | 908B64B197 wrote: | That's not at all surprising. | | It's their intern salary projected on a yearly basis so ~ | $9737/month. | juice_bus wrote: | I'm in Canada and these students allegedly make more money | than I do with ~12 years of experience. | mistrial9 wrote: | it gets better -- twenty years experience and you will | make much less again | gopher_space wrote: | There are probably crypto-fintech-medtech jobs out there | that pay 500k but we'd never get to the salary part of | the conversation because the whole idea feels shady. | Security might also pay well but there are too many | personalities involved in the domain for me to find out. | tester756 wrote: | I do have 4 years of commercial experience and I'll be getting | masters next year. | | That's because I've been working full time since 2nd semester | | But I still do believe that it's weird. | | Maybe people think about experience in general instead of | commercial, full time? | davidspiess wrote: | Is it possible to find out the average salary of a specific | country? In the survey it's only possible to switch between US, | India, Germany, UK and Canada. | speedgoose wrote: | My union does that, you may have one for IT professionals where | you live. | pxeger1 wrote: | I presume that's because they didn't have enough data for other | countries. | throwaway889900 wrote: | People love APL more than Java? Interesting, I always bring up | APL as a joke. | Beltalowda wrote: | Only about 500 people filled in APL, whereas about 22k people | filled in Java. For a lot of people APL isn't really on the | radar. | abrudz wrote: | Makes sense to me (but I'm of course biased) due to selection | bias. My impression is that those for whom APL clicks, find the | day-to-day APL experience very enjoyable, while those that just | don't get it will tend to leave APL behind. Probably not so for | more widely-used languages, where people will stay with them, | even if it means daily frustration. | mayormcheeseman wrote: | I expected C#/dotnet to make a little more headway considering | all of the work being done and released recently, plus the push | to make it more cross-platform than it already is. | BlargMcLarg wrote: | Microsoft usually has pretty good documentation. Maybe that | lowers the need to use SO, which would lower the odds of those | developers being active on SO. | | 28% is still pretty good compared to Java's 33%. | mayormcheeseman wrote: | Oh definitely, Microsoft docs are usually very well written. | And you're right, those percentages look pretty good. | khoobid_shoma wrote: | The numbers do not say what is really better. It just reflects | responders' opinions. | bigbillheck wrote: | > It just reflects responders' opinions. | | That's why they called it a 'Developer Survey'. | mg wrote: | Observations: | | 1: Amazing that Javascript is the most popular language, despite | nobody has yet managed to write a fast FizzBuzz in it :) | | https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/215216/high-thr... | | 2: SQL and Bash both went up a percentage point! Yay! The art of | terse and efficient code is not yet dying. | | 3: Strange that "Web frameworks" mixes backend and frontend | frameworks. Why is "node.js" listed here? Isn't node.js a | runtime? | | 4: Docker made a big jump from 49% to 64%. I consider that a good | thing. I don't believe in "containerizing" applications. But I | prefer to have Docker stay around for the long term. Because | containers on their own are so darn useful. | | 5: Git is at 94%! Really? 94% of developers use Git? Or do they | use some tool that is using abstracting Git away, like GitHub? | Anyhow. Thats great, because Git (like vim) is one of the best | pieces of software out there and I love that it will be around | for a very long time. | GlitchMr wrote: | > 1: Amazing that Javascript is the most popular language, | despite nobody has yet managed to write a fast FizzBuzz in it | :) | | The reason for that is that standard output implementation in | Node.js is very slow. When the challenge is to write as fast as | possible to standard output that's not ideal. | speedgoose wrote: | It's because it's not possible. | shepherdjerred wrote: | Why not? | trinovantes wrote: | This fizzbuzz competition specifically requires the | solution to work up to 2^63 which is not possible as the | largest int in JS is 2^54-1. You would have to use BigInt | which would greatly reduce your performance. | | So not impossible but kinda pointless for JS | pbhjpbhj wrote: | I'm not a programmer just a pedant ... can't you just | concatenate two integers one as your bigend and one as | your little end. Sure, probably not fast, but slow !== | impossible. | city41 wrote: | That's pretty much what BigInt is doing for you. | TJSomething wrote: | The thing that was said to be impossible was writing a | fast FizzBuzz. Assuming that your reference is C, it kind | of is. | shakna wrote: | There's ASM and C answers, without going near BigNum | libraries. You wouldn't necessarily have to implement or | use a BigNum library. | Taywee wrote: | ASM and C have access to native 64-bit integers. | Javascript does not. | shakna wrote: | Javascript does [0]. Shipping in Chrome v67, and rolling | out elsewhere. | | [0] https://chromestatus.com/feature/5371603852460032 | Taywee wrote: | That's not native 64-bit integers. That's BigInt, and | it's already out everywhere, and unless the situation has | changed, it's significantly slower than just 64-bit | integers would be. | | I'm not actually attacking JavaScript for this, note. I | don't think it's really all that much of a problem given | the purposes of JavaScript, and I think it could really | be better fixed by doing something similar to what Lua | did, and have all numbers transparently either a 64-bit | floating point number or a 64-bit signed integer. If you | are using JavaScript and something like specifically | needing 64-bit integers is an issue for you, there's a | good chance you should just be using WebAssembly. | bluedino wrote: | There is no way that 94% of programmers know how to use Git. | Most of them barely know how to program. | silentguy wrote: | Regarding Git being 94%, if you see the table just below about | interacting with the version control system, you'd see 83.57% | users using command-line. 28.44% are using version control | hosting service web GUI. 83.57% is still a big number of people | who are using git with fewer abstractions on top. | thunderbong wrote: | > Git is at 94%! Really? 94% of developers use Git? | | I think this means that 94% of the people using Git have | questions!! | | IMHO, this means that a simple Distributed Version Control | System is really required. | _ZeD_ wrote: | like mercurial? | layer8 wrote: | > a simple Distributed Version Control System is really | required | | Right, it would be nice to have a simple one. | kwertyoowiyop wrote: | All the Git users took a break from reading tutorials and | googling for solutions, and took this survey. | capableweb wrote: | > Amazing that Javascript is the most popular language, despite | nobody has yet managed to write a fast FizzBuzz in it | | It's almost like "Best performance of all languages!" is not | that important of an requirement for a language to become | popular :) | runarberg wrote: | Being the native language of the most popular information | sharing standard in the history of humanity surely must | account for something. | AnimalMuppet wrote: | Re 2: Bash can be terse, yes. Efficient? Depends. It can be | efficient in terms of developer time to get something running. | Efficient in terms of CPU time? Maybe not. | waylandsmithers wrote: | > Why is "node.js" listed here? Isn't node.js a runtime? | | In this context this almost always means node.js with express | MattGaiser wrote: | I so rarely hear of Express in the context of backend JS. | People always just say Node. Curious convention. | diarrhea wrote: | I was under the impression Solidity was a dumpster fire language. | For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14810008. It | ranks surprisingly high. Is this riding off of Ethereum's | popularity? Perhaps in combination with the skewed sample | (towards young/beginning devs). | Xenoamorphous wrote: | Race "European"? | tacker2000 wrote: | Found that interesting too. But i guess that has to do with the | fact that if youre not in the US then the concept of "race" is | different. | badrabbit wrote: | Not gonna lie, I am a little upset about Ocaml here. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-06-22 23:00 UTC)