[HN Gopher] Unexpected solar weather is accelerating satellites'...
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       Unexpected solar weather is accelerating satellites' orbital decay
        
       Author : lelf
       Score  : 84 points
       Date   : 2022-06-23 16:36 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.space.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.space.com)
        
       | rcardo11 wrote:
       | I'm wondering if this solar cycle can be a reason for the recent
       | wild summer temperatures? Anyone here can confirm?
        
       | daltont wrote:
       | Hyperbolic headlines plus the fact the people tend to not read
       | anything except the headline (a form Lem's law IMO) is part of
       | the disinformation problem.
        
       | FunnyBadger wrote:
       | This is simply part of the solar cycle. And it's a standard part
       | of satellite planning when it comes to operational quality and
       | reliability to account for solar cycle radiation effects.
       | 
       | This is an ignorant fear article and/or an article written by
       | someone who knows NOTHING about space launch and design.
       | 
       | (I used to be a military rocket scientist specializing in
       | radiation effects on space electronics many moons ago).
        
         | kmbfjr wrote:
         | >By coincidence (or beginner's luck), the onset of the new
         | space revolution came during that sleepy solar cycle.
         | 
         | Apparently not simply part of the solar cycle when new types of
         | spacecraft (lacking typical propulsion systems) haven't been in
         | orbit during a high activity solar peak.
         | 
         | There are some points that are alarmist. "Plummet" isn't
         | something that seems to happen.
        
         | KennyBlanken wrote:
         | The article _at length_ describes how this solar cycle is
         | _different from prior cycles and forecasts_.
         | 
         | > This drag also helps clean up the near-Earth environment from
         | space junk. Scientists know that the intensity of this drag
         | depends on solar activity -- the amount of solar wind spewed by
         | the sun, which varies depending on the 11-year solar cycle. The
         | last cycle, which officially ended in December 2019, was rather
         | sleepy, with a below-average number of monthly sunspots and a
         | prolonged minimum of barely any activity. But since last fall,
         | the star has been waking up, spewing more and more solar wind
         | and generating sunspots, solar flares and coronal mass
         | ejections at a growing rate. And the Earth's upper atmosphere
         | has felt the effects.
         | 
         | > In late 2021, operators of the European Space Agency's (ESA)
         | Swarm constellation noticed something worrying: The satellites,
         | which measure the magnetic field around Earth, started sinking
         | toward the atmosphere at an unusually fast rate -- up to 10
         | times faster than before.
         | 
         | > By coincidence (or beginner's luck), the onset of the new
         | space revolution came during that sleepy solar cycle. These new
         | operators are now facing their first solar maximum. But not
         | only that. The sun's activity in the past year turned out to be
         | much more intense than solar weather forecasters predicted,
         | with more sunspots, more coronal mass ejections and more solar
         | wind hitting our planet.
         | 
         | > "The solar activity is a lot higher than the official
         | forecast suggested," Hugh Lewis, a professor of engineering and
         | physical sciences at the University of Southampton in the U.K.
         | who studies the behavior of satellites in low Earth orbit, told
         | Space.com. "In fact, the current activity is already quite
         | close to the peak level that was forecasted for this solar
         | cycle, and we are still two to three years away from the solar
         | maximum."
         | 
         | > Stromme confirmed those observations. "The solar cycle 25
         | that we are entering now is currently increasing very steeply,"
         | she said. "We do not know if this means that it will be a very
         | tough solar cycle. It could slow down, and it could become a
         | very weak solar cycle. But right now, it's increasing fast."
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | I concur with this, and also, one possible solution to this
         | from a technical perspective is to increase the amount of fuel
         | carried for ion/hall effect and similar thrusters (high
         | specific impulse, low thrust) for periodic orbit raising
         | maneuvers to extend lifetime.
         | 
         |  _Theoretically_ , as $ per kg launch costs come down with
         | things like reusable falcon 9, it makes it much less costly to
         | equip medium sized LEO satellite with more fuel than it might
         | have costed 10 or 15 years ago.
         | 
         | Or if you have something that needs to orbit really low and
         | minimize drag/maximize lifespan, you could design it to be
         | particularly aerodynamic and shaped like this:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_Field_and_Steady-State...
        
       | zackees wrote:
       | So this effect is caused by more solar wind slamming into the
       | atmosphere at 100's of km/hr and is so powerful that it's CAUSING
       | THE ATMOSPHERE TO HEAT UP AND EXPAND?
       | 
       | Does the global warming models take this into effect? This seems
       | like an unfathomable amount of energy.
        
         | jhgb wrote:
         | It's causing _the uppermost layers of atmosphere_ to expand.
         | That 's less than an unfathomable amount of energy because the
         | uppermost layers of atmosphere are extremely rarefied, to the
         | extent they don't even behave like gases.
        
         | mturmon wrote:
         | Solar irradiance variations amount to a bit less than 0.1% over
         | the solar cycle. It used to be thought solar-cycle variations
         | (the 11-year period) could be a significant contributor to
         | climate change.
         | 
         | This turned out not to be the case...that was pretty much known
         | by the early 2000s.
         | 
         | Other irradiance variations, due to orbital variations called
         | Milankovich cycles, happening in the 10,000's of year range, do
         | appear to influence climate. Of course, the extremes we're
         | seeing now are not on the 10,000-year time scale.
        
       | kgc wrote:
       | I wish we could go back to the days of non-clickbait headlines.
        
         | dragontamer wrote:
         | When exactly did those days exist?
         | 
         | * "Destruction of the Warship Maine was the work of an Enemy.
         | $50,000 Reward~" https://sophia.smith.edu/fys169-f19/wp-
         | content/uploads/sites...
         | 
         | * There's also the fake propaganda Ben Franklin pushed so that
         | the 1776 revolution would have the moral high ground. (Ben
         | Franklin fabricated the "Scalping" of USA's early citizens to
         | fake a war-crime, to make the British look more monstrous).
         | https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-37-02-01...
         | 
         | I'm not sure if there ever was non-clickbait headlines. In
         | fact, the further back in history you go, the more clickbait,
         | and even fully fake, information seems to exist.
        
       | not2b wrote:
       | Too many HN threads just seem to be people arguing about the
       | appropriateness of the title. The article addresses a significant
       | and interesting issue that's going to have major negative effects
       | on business models, as well as some positive effect on space
       | junk. I think they did a decent job, at least for an article
       | intended for the general public, and I'm glad I read it. And yes,
       | the word "plummet" is an exaggeration. But that isn't a big deal.
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | Writing a good title is as hard as naming things in code. It's
         | a much harder problem than it seems like it should be, with
         | mutually exclusive interests often creating impossible
         | situations.
         | 
         | But also, people just kind of suck at it.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | With media publications, at least, it's more that they have
           | specialists dedicated to slathering bait on the titles.
           | That's their job and they're perfectly good at it--they just
           | don't produce what people _here_ would call a good title.
           | This is an example of what Eric Evans called a  "bounded
           | context". The way I look at it, it's their job to sex up the
           | headlines and our job (community as well as moderators!) to
           | deflate them again. "Not in this context."
           | 
           | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.
           | ..
           | 
           | (I suppose this is what you meant by "mutually exclusive
           | interests".)
        
         | birdyrooster wrote:
         | Bike shedding at work
        
           | brazzledazzle wrote:
           | I like to take a break from bike shedding at work with some
           | bike shedding on HN. Has a different flavor.
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | I think HN's current title policy is exactly right, for this
         | reason: submissions need "neutral" titles so that we can
         | discuss the content instead.
         | 
         | In this case, the discussion of the word plummet is halfway
         | topical: it's about understanding the severity and going more
         | into detail of what's actually happening, putting it in
         | context. The equivalent discussion would happen regardless of
         | word choice.
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | And most aerospace threads are a shitshow, people who have no
         | idea what they are talking about getting uppity about words
         | which are basically appropriate in this circumstance. Going
         | from 2 km/year to 20 km/year orbit decay is indeed quite
         | significant and could cause a satellite to be lost many years
         | early, the last stage of which is burning up in the atmosphere
         | which is quite plummetous.
        
         | andrewflnr wrote:
         | Misleading headlines are a constant act of sabotage on our
         | ability to prioritize our information intake. I don't know if
         | it _really_ needs to be discussed every single time, but it is
         | important enough to be recognized and discussed, and until we
         | decide to get serious about rebelling or whatever, well, who 's
         | going to decide where the exact appropriate place is to discuss
         | it? So basically as long as it keeps hurting, were going to
         | keep talking about it whenever and wherever it hurts.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Never underestimate the passion users feel about titles:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20429573
        
         | corrral wrote:
         | > Too many HN threads just seem to be people arguing about the
         | appropriateness of the title
         | 
         | Too many writers--including of headlines--are so sloppy with
         | language that it's misleading, or even incorrect.
         | 
         | Perhaps when GPT-4 or whatever takes over those jobs, it will
         | be better at it. Provided we don't train it on anything written
         | after 2000 or so, when all headlines became tabloid headlines
         | and margins got tight enough that no-one had time for careful
         | editing anymore.
        
         | topspin wrote:
         | "But that isn't a big deal."
         | 
         | It's clickbait. I appreciate people pointing out clickbait. I
         | think a lot of others do as well; it's why they read the
         | comments on an article before the look at the article.
         | 
         | Had the story been titled "Solar Weather Causes Unexpected
         | Satellite Orbit Decay" or some other non-clickbait thing I'd
         | have read it without looking at comments first. I'm actually
         | interested in solar weather due to its impact on radio. Too bad
         | publishers don't understand that clickbait titles are a serious
         | turn off. Apparently everything must be TMZ.
        
           | not2b wrote:
           | I don't appreciate it when the whole comment section of a
           | substantive article is complaints about the headline. Maybe
           | we should just have a way for people to privately message the
           | moderators proposing a headline change to correct a
           | misleading headine, and do that instead. Then the comment
           | section could talk about the article instead of the headline.
        
         | anigbrowl wrote:
         | This can bel alleviated by choosing better sources or relaxing
         | the objections to editing titles. I agree that there are lots
         | of useful and informative stories with shitty headlines. I
         | personally don't mind title edits as long as they aim to be
         | less rather than more sensational, and OP briefly notes the
         | reason for the change.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | RosanaAnaDana wrote:
         | HN: come for the pedentry, stay for the pedentry on pedentry.
        
           | jtbayly wrote:
           | It's spelled "pedantry." :)
        
             | a9h74j wrote:
             | An MP-complete post is one in which the meta-pedantry
             | completes in polynominal time.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | That has to have been a trap.
        
       | stjohnswarts wrote:
       | I mean wouldn't they account for this and add thrusters and fuel
       | to put it back where they want it?
        
       | vsllc wrote:
       | I am thinking about a commercial data product to address the
       | situational awareness need here. It feels daunting though,
       | because customers would be the likes of SpaceX and other
       | intimidating entities. If anyone has thoughts, or is interested,
       | please send me an email. (Contact info in profile!) Thanks.
        
         | visviva wrote:
         | Commercial SSA is getting to be a busy... space. Have you seen
         | what others are doing in that area? How does your idea differ?
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | With NASA and related space weather data products and internal
         | tracking of satellites being a core competence of companies
         | like SpaceX, I don't necessarily see where a commercial data
         | product would fit or provide value. Unless you're actually
         | going to launch orbital assets and have some significant
         | scientific work, I'm just not sure.
         | 
         | Some competition: http://acswa.us/about/members.html
        
       | Treblemaker wrote:
       | (December 19, 2020) "The consensus view of an international panel
       | of 12 scientists calls for the new cycle, Solar Cycle 25, to be
       | small to average, much like its predecessor, Solar Cycle 24.
       | 
       | But a prominent astrophysicist at the National Center for
       | Atmospheric Research, Scott McIntosh, foresees the sun going
       | gangbusters. The cycle is already off to a fast start, coinciding
       | with the recent publication of McIntosh's paper in Solar Physics.
       | The study, with contributions from several of his colleagues,
       | forecasts the nascent sunspot cycle to become one of the
       | strongest ever recorded."
       | 
       | [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2020/12/19/solar-
       | cycl...
        
         | Treblemaker wrote:
         | Update on the prediction:
         | 
         | (Feb. 26, 2022) ""We have finalized our forecast of SC25's
         | amplitude," says McIntosh. "It will be just above the
         | historical average with a monthly smoothed sunspot number of
         | 190 +- 20."
         | 
         | ""Above average" may not sound exciting, but this is in fact a
         | sharp departure from NOAA's official forecast of a weak solar
         | cycle"
         | 
         | [0] https://spaceweatherarchive.com/2022/02/25/the-
         | termination-e...
        
       | jaywalk wrote:
       | Is the word "plummet" really appropriate here? They're talking
       | about falling at a rate of 0.001mph, which is much faster than
       | expected but hardly a "plummet."
        
         | jcims wrote:
         | I don't really pay attention that closely, but space.com is a
         | common theme when i see hacky stories about space/astronomy.
        
         | martinky24 wrote:
         | Pop-sci articles... Always disappointing
        
           | nomel wrote:
           | But dang, they sure made me fall in love with science, as a
           | kid.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Was this one disappointing? Maybe if you're going by the
           | title alone, which granted was the original question.
           | However, it was a decent enough explanation for the target
           | audience of the site.
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | Yes, orbit decay having gone up by a factor of ~10 is indeed
         | plummeting.
         | 
         | You park things in low earth orbit so that they don't stay up
         | forever and indeed come down in reasonably small human-scale
         | timeframes. Usually on the time scale of decades, sometimes
         | more, sometimes less.
         | 
         | If you designed a satellite to stay up for 10 years, it'll
         | suddenly only be able to stay up a year, that's the scale of
         | these things.
         | 
         | Again it's an exponential thing, a seemingly small scale change
         | in the slow part makes the fast part come quite a lot sooner.
        
           | BitwiseFool wrote:
           | I think the primary objection is that to the vast majority of
           | people 'plummet' implies the satellite is suddenly and
           | violently falling from the sky - it's the kind of word people
           | would describe an airplane crash with.
           | 
           | However unless the author happens to know a lot about orbital
           | mechanics (or they've played Kerbal Space Program) they
           | probably just picked an expressive word for the sake of a
           | compelling article rather than something that would give a
           | better picture to the layperson.
        
             | orbital-decay wrote:
             | Sidenote: KSP is the worst way to build intuition in this
             | particular case as it doesn't have any drag model in orbit,
             | or even n-body simulation, so no orbital decay is possible
             | there. Playing around with NASA's GMAT [0] or similar more
             | comprehensive software is much more helpful to understand
             | real-world orbital mechanics.
             | 
             | [0] https://sourceforge.net/projects/gmat/
        
               | ericbarrett wrote:
               | There is a high-quality mod which adds n-body gravity:
               | https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia
               | 
               | It will also add orbital perturbations/frozen orbits if
               | you use Real Solar System: https://github.com/mockingbird
               | nest/Principia/blob/master/ast...
               | 
               | That said, to my knowledge there isn't yet a mod that
               | adds high-altitude drag.
        
             | colechristensen wrote:
             | It's a dumb objection. A mission manager was quoted using
             | the word "diving".
             | 
             | It isn't the journalist but the nitpicking commentors who
             | are clueless. The headline accurately enough conveys what
             | is happening and the article articulates it well. Orbital
             | mechanics isn't intuitive enough for there to be perfect
             | fit words given human experience, human timescales,
             | "plummet" is fine.
        
               | nomel wrote:
               | The definition of the word, that everyone is probably
               | familiar with, strongly disagrees: https://www.merriam-
               | webster.com/dictionary/plummet                   Plummet:
               | 1. to fall perpendicularly                  2. to drop
               | sharply and abruptly
               | 
               | Or, Google's scraped definition from Oxford dictionary:
               | fall or drop straight down at high speed.
               | 
               | If you google "satellite plummeting", you'll notice that
               | almost all of the results also include "fireball",
               | "burning up" and/or "reentry".
        
               | corrral wrote:
               | Plummet implies a straight-line dead fall, or close to
               | it. It derives from lead weights (hence the similarity to
               | "plumber") attached to a line, used for sounding depth of
               | water or for marking a straight vertical line. The
               | "verbing" of that noun and its figurative use to describe
               | falling appear to be quite recent developments--Webster's
               | 1913 only lists a noun. I'd say it's the wrong word for
               | this case, but then I'm an opponent of using slightly-
               | similar words interchangeably, such that we effectively
               | have fewer words to work with. However, I'm losing that
               | fight anyway, so who cares I guess.
               | 
               | [EDIT] On reflection, this is even goofier than I thought
               | at first, since the choice of lead for those applications
               | is precisely because it's little affected by wind, and
               | even fares better than most things against moving water,
               | while this is entirely about something falling faster
               | _because of_ its interaction with air.
        
               | BitwiseFool wrote:
               | I don't see why it is a dumb objection. Word choice is
               | important, especially for journalists trying to convey
               | information to the general public and even more so when
               | it comes to headlines - as the majority of people won't
               | read the article to understand the nuance.
               | 
               | I genuinely think a decent number of people are going to
               | envision a situation where satellites suddenly plunging
               | out of orbit like they would in some big budget disaster
               | movie. You are well within your right to tell them they
               | are thinking of the word "plummeting" incorrectly but you
               | are fighting an uphill battle. Technical and dictionary
               | correctness has its place but to convey information
               | properly people must consider the vernacular.
        
               | teawrecks wrote:
               | > I don't see why it is a dumb objection
               | 
               | Because we're now 5+ comments deep arguing semantics. You
               | know the facts, I know the facts, we all know the facts,
               | what do we disagree on?
        
               | colechristensen wrote:
               | It's dumb because it is based on the objector imagining
               | what an uninformed reader would imagine and thinking that
               | anything unlike mighty Thor smiting satellites out of the
               | sky with lightning bolts would make the word "plummet"
               | inappropriate.
               | 
               | Satellites are falling relatively very fast compared to
               | usual and some of them have or soon will burn up in
               | atmosphere as a result, it's a headline, not a half
               | sentence expected to grant a degree in astrodynamics.
        
               | BitwiseFool wrote:
               | Likewise, why would you imagine that an uninformed reader
               | would see the word "plummet" and understand that none of
               | these satellites are in immediate danger of re-entry,
               | that they will in-fact continue to stay aloft for several
               | more months, and that in this context plummet means an
               | orbit decaying an order of magnitude faster than
               | expected?
               | 
               | You are correct, one of the meanings of plummet is a
               | rapid descent. These satellites are rapidly descending.
               | You are correct.
               | 
               | Again, though, word choice matters. Can you see where
               | other commenters and I are coming from?
        
               | cardiffspaceman wrote:
               | Remember that Star Trek movie trailer wherein the
               | Enterprise (or a similar) spacecraft seemed to drop like
               | the string had been cut? That's what I picture with
               | "plummet".
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | GekkePrutser wrote:
           | But this space 'weather' won't last forever right? Won't it
           | go back to the old decay rate after this?
           | 
           | So if it lasts a week, the lifetime will be reduced by 10
           | weeks? Still a lot but something you can cope with.
        
             | colechristensen wrote:
             | There are events measured in minutes, hours, and years (or
             | decades).
             | 
             | We're ramping up to a maximum which should happen in a few
             | years but activity has been above predictions. We don't
             | understand the Sun dynamics all that well, but what's
             | happening now is a little weird beyond expectations and
             | might be something that continues for years.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Just finished reading the article with the exact same question
         | in mind.
         | 
         | Plummet gets the clicks though, so to the website, it is
         | appropriate.
         | 
         | It could also be argued it's a sense of perspective. Something
         | that falls at the rate of 2km per year suddenly in a matter of
         | months starts to fall at a rate of 20km per year could seem
         | like plummeting when you're the one tasked with keeping it
         | alive or the person that paid for it to be there for 10 years
         | to see it suddenly shortened to 2 years. It's a stretch, but we
         | all love hyperbole
        
           | uranium wrote:
           | This. To space folks, that _is_ plummeting. It 's enough of a
           | difference, and a surprise, to have a significant effect on
           | business models.
        
             | Aachen wrote:
             | It's a significant difference that has a real impact on the
             | satellites. But we also don't say that airplanes plummet
             | when landing or elevators when going down.
             | 
             | To me at least, plummet signals it's a matter of seconds
             | or, perhaps from great altitude, minutes until it hits the
             | bottom. So to me, and that's knowing a thing or two about
             | space, this title is just clickbait and not a good
             | description of the phenomenon observed even for a techy
             | public like HN.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | We absolutely refer to planes as plummeting, when the
               | situation warrants.
               | 
               | This article wasn't written for HN. It was written for
               | the general audience that peruses Space.com. Because
               | someone found it interesting and posted to HN is pretty
               | much the only reason it is on HN. Space.com didn't submit
               | it in hopes of gaining attention by a hypercritical
               | audience.
               | 
               | Yes, I agree it is click bait. I'm just playing devil's
               | advocate to some of your weaker arguments.
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | They also say Starlink fully lost 40 satellites to solar
         | weather (were decelerated rapidly enough to burn up in the
         | atmosphere, before their orbits could be rescued). There's a
         | range of outcomes.
         | 
         | Thread about that:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30267587 (488 comments)
        
           | mirashii wrote:
           | For those who don't click through to the other thread, I'd
           | say that solar weather contributed, but the root cause was
           | more an overzealous safe mode induced by the operations team
           | that didn't leave time to recover. A better operations plan
           | would've shortened the safe mode duration to ensure that they
           | attempted to raise their orbit even if it meant deploying
           | during the solar event. Letting safe mode destroy the
           | satellite to mitigate a probabilistic risk is just bad
           | planning. Take the chance and deploy anyways and hope you get
           | lucky.
        
             | daniel-cussen wrote:
             | Come on, 40 satellites is not all that much for Spacex.
        
             | adolph wrote:
             | > Take the chance and deploy anyways and hope you get
             | lucky.
             | 
             | If they got unlucky they might have spiked a space in which
             | another satellite could have orbited (no pun intended).
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Alright you guys, they are no longer plummeting in the title
         | above. Let's talk about the interesting bits now!
        
           | cperciva wrote:
           | I would have said "... is accelerating satellites' orbital
           | decay".
        
             | dang wrote:
             | Ok, it's up there now. Thanks!
        
         | CodeWriter23 wrote:
         | Well at that rate, it will crash into the Earth in...never
        
           | dr_orpheus wrote:
           | But it will though. The lowest satellites are at an altitude
           | of 460 km above the Earth. And the decay of the satellite in
           | to the Earth is exponential [0] so the unexpected drop is a
           | significant impact on the lifetime of the spacecraft. You can
           | see from the plot in that Orbital Decay that there is an
           | altitude that it starts dropping very rapidly. So they may
           | have expected it de-orbit in approximately 10 years, but now
           | the de-orbit could be something like 5 years.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_decay#/media/File:Alti.
           | ..
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote:
         | I'm surprised they didn't go all out and call 'solar weather'
         | 'extreme nuclear explosion activity on the sun'. I'm mean, if
         | its for the clicks, why not.
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | Yeah, plummet is like straight down till it hits something.
         | Given it's root is in "plumbum" it's not surprising and yes,
         | this is used incorrectly. Not being prescriptive, but this
         | usage is pretty misleading.
        
           | pempem wrote:
           | Well now that we've determined that plummet maybe isn't the
           | right word to use, shall we discuss the fact that satellites
           | are unexpectedly falling from the sky in yet another climate
           | change that we had not predicted?
        
             | mc32 wrote:
             | While solar phenomena influences climate, this aspect is
             | not human induced. We have put artificial satellites up
             | there, in earth orbit, but they are not causing solar
             | eruptions or solar flares. We don't understand solar
             | "climate" enough to say that it's changing (cycle
             | frequency, amplitude, etc).
        
               | bityard wrote:
               | > We don't understand solar "climate" enough to say that
               | it's changing (cycle frequency, amplitude, etc).
               | 
               | We certainly do know a fair amount about the sun's
               | "climate": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cycle
               | 
               | The sun has an 11-year solar cycle where each cycle has a
               | period of low and high sunspot activity and currently we
               | are just starting Cycle 25 with a corresponding uptick of
               | solar flare activity.
        
             | jtbayly wrote:
             | If only we hadn't been burning fossil fuels, the sun
             | wouldn't be punishing us like this!
        
               | pempem wrote:
               | Climate of the sun. ugh. climate of the sun obviously.
        
             | zoomablemind wrote:
             | > ...shall we discuss the fact that satellites are
             | unexpectedly falling from the sky
             | 
             | Well, the falling is rather expected, it's just the rate of
             | it is faster, than we hoped for.
             | 
             | Maybe in a couple of years, once at max, the rate will
             | start decreasing, but for some cubesats this may be
             | terminal by then.
        
             | anigbrowl wrote:
             | I think this is widely predicted actually
        
           | furyofantares wrote:
           | That's what's happening, right? It's just that space is
           | curved by the earth
        
             | mc32 wrote:
             | A meteor/meteorite plunges to earth. Something that lowers
             | its altitude so very slightly is not "plummet". Skylab yes
             | plummeted back to earth.
        
         | izzydata wrote:
         | Wow, so you are telling me satellites are falling to earth and
         | burning up in the atmosphere? No? Oh.. ok.
        
           | kzrdude wrote:
           | No? Yes. They always do this. The only question is how fast.
           | They'll fall and burn eventually.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | zoomablemind wrote:
       | There were some space tech startups planning to provide a kind of
       | tug-service to satellites on the low orbit. Not sure if any
       | viability for this is on the near-future horizon.
       | 
       | Space tugs as a service: https://spacenews.com/space-tugs-as-a-
       | service-in-orbit-servi...
        
       | mturmon wrote:
       | As people are pointing out, the rate of orbital decay does matter
       | (even if it's not a "plummet"!) -- because everyone concerned
       | knows that solar activity should be increasing _to some extent_
       | in 2022 as a new solar cycle takes hold.
       | 
       | This plot of sunspot activity, and the (highly correlated) 10.7cm
       | radio flux, indicates that the current cycle (cycle #25) is
       | rising much faster than typical:
       | 
       | https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/products/solar-cycle-progression
       | 
       | As you can see, cycle #24, which ended in 2019, was quieter than
       | expected (annoying to solar physicists who only see a few cycles
       | within their whole career) -- so it's actually very interesting
       | that Cycle #25 is starting out with a bang.
       | 
       | NOAA is the main US government agency tasked with
       | monitoring/predicting solar activity for the protection of ground
       | and space systems. The main facility is the Space Weather
       | Prediction Center which is in Boulder, CO -- that's the data
       | source of the above plots. The SWPC centerpiece used to be a
       | control room with a bunch of people looking at computer monitors
       | filled with various real-time and historical time series.
       | 
       | We don't know why some cycles are less intense, and the last few
       | cycles have generally been on a downward trend (e.g.,
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cycle#Sunspots). So again, it
       | is indeed quite interesting to see this high activity - if it
       | holds up.
        
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       (page generated 2022-06-23 23:00 UTC)