[HN Gopher] Crypto firm Bitpanda lays off around 20% of its people
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       Crypto firm Bitpanda lays off around 20% of its people
        
       Author : brunojppb
       Score  : 96 points
       Date   : 2022-06-24 19:07 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.bitpanda.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.bitpanda.com)
        
       | jeffwask wrote:
       | Is it irony when you name yourself after an endangered species
       | and then your product becomes an endangered species?
        
         | themitigating wrote:
         | Giant pandas no longer endangered but still vulnerable, says
         | China https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57773472
        
       | tyrfing wrote:
       | 550 million raised, last round series C in Aug '21.
        
         | nikanj wrote:
         | I wonder how much of that was put into BTC. Might only be worth
         | $150 million now
        
           | gitfan86 wrote:
           | The smart money doesn't hold any crypto and instead take
           | advantage of the lack of regulations to arbitrage and front
           | run traders and speculators.
        
       | colesantiago wrote:
       | Good. There needs to be more of these layoffs in the crypto
       | casino sector. Hopefully in the next coming years, all crypto
       | firms should go bankrupt and disappear.
       | 
       | These exchanges and crypto companies need to stop encouraging
       | customers to buy and gamble their savings and college funds into
       | the crypto pyramid scheme.
       | 
       | This needs to end.
        
         | melenaboija wrote:
         | > "...crypto casino sector"
         | 
         | I would not call it casino. Casinos go through regulated
         | scrutiny to test the games probabilities are accurate so you
         | play against math, crypto is a an unregulated market so you
         | (probably) play against or benefit of market inefficiencies.
        
           | tpmx wrote:
           | > Casinos go through regulated scrutiny to test the games
           | probabilities are accurate so you play against math
           | 
           | That's only for physical games/machines, right?
        
             | melenaboija wrote:
             | I had in mind physical casinos so I would say yes but
             | testing also depends on each country regulations. If I
             | recall properly (I worked in the testing industry long time
             | ago and with slot machines) the problem with online games
             | for my country at that time was that there was some
             | confusion on which regulation to apply for them as games
             | where not played where they were hosted.
        
           | bluelightning2k wrote:
           | At the end of a casino the chips can always be redeemed.
           | 
           | There is very little liquidity in crypto. And when one of the
           | whales breaks rank and heads for the exit every other holder
           | will be sitting on chips with some nominal value but
           | absolutely no buyers.
        
             | melenaboija wrote:
             | Casinos are not just games where chips are exchanged
             | between players and what is regulated is not how you play
             | (casinos per se may do that, I don't know) but that the
             | game is fair and you can make informed decisions, ie in
             | card games that all players have the same information which
             | means the decks are not marked, contain a known
             | distribution of cards,... That does not happen in
             | inefficient markets.
        
       | timcavel wrote:
        
       | chollida1 wrote:
       | Google, amazon, yahoo and Microsoft all benefited greatly from
       | the early 2000 tech crash in that they had a lot of cash and were
       | able to hire alot of really good tech talent that was suddenly
       | out of a job.
       | 
       | Looks like FTX and Binance are about to leave their competition
       | in the dust in this crypto winter.
       | 
       | Coinbase seems to have thrown in the towel for now. I would have
       | thought they would see this as an opportunity but their fiscal
       | situation must be alot worse than they are letting on. Which is
       | strange because I would have thought they were better capitalized
       | that they are letting on.
       | 
       | We're watching as closely as we can to see if they have alot of
       | bad loans outstanding to failing firms.
       | 
       | With Voyager about to go under, Celsius just hiring a firm to
       | guide them through bankruptcy and several other minor firms
       | already going under there will be no shortage of tech talent
       | available to well run firms.
       | 
       | When we come out of this downturn in a year or two FTX and
       | Binance are going to be even larger giants than they are now.
       | With no real government oversite over those firms to limit their
       | growth, the next crypto crash could be because one of those two
       | gets into trouble.
       | 
       | Another dark horse candidate is Goldman Sachs, they are well
       | capitalized. Look for them to start to buy up distressed crypto
       | assets and go into the next bull market in(probably 2024) as a
       | big crypto player for institutional clients, and possibly for
       | retail under their Marcus brand.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | > yahoo and Microsoft
         | 
         | Those two stagnated (at best) in the aughts. Google was taking
         | Yahoo's lunch, and Microsoft had no web vision and was tied up
         | in antitrust headaches.
        
         | radicaldreamer wrote:
         | FTX and Binanace will win because they actually invested in
         | infra and efficiency when building out their products during
         | the good times. They'll reap outsized benefits during the
         | downturn.
        
         | ditonal wrote:
         | Coinbase way, way overhired and way overpaid for a weak senior
         | leadership team. I'm not a fan personally of Brian Armstrong or
         | Sam Bankman but the difference in leadership skill is night and
         | day. Armstrong was in the right place at the right time
         | following the Mt Gox collapse but he's clearly in way over his
         | head now, but he got his money so I doubt cares.
        
         | puranjay wrote:
         | Coinbase is being very poorly led. They haven't innovated at
         | all and they're confused as to who their target customers are.
         | The brief mainstream retail rush has thrown them off.
         | 
         | The target customers for crypto are other investors, degens,
         | and gamblers. Most of the money in crypto is house money, i.e.
         | money that was made from existing crypto investments. Just see
         | the transaction volume on OpenSea (decentralized ETH house
         | money) vs CoinBase's NFT marketplace. Retail neither cares nor
         | has the money for shitty jpegs.
         | 
         | FTX understands the target market. Which is why it has focused
         | so aggressively on futures. You can short/long practically
         | everything on FTX with leverage. That's the
         | investor/degen/gambler class - the bulk of money in crypto.
         | 
         | Binance doesn't do anything extremely well, but whatever it
         | does, it simply works. Withdrawals work, support is clumsy but
         | works, perps work, spot trading works, even their awful chain,
         | as full of scams as it might be, _works_.
        
         | Ekaros wrote:
         | Do they need to hire lot of people? Or should they try to run
         | it as lean profitable business? The big players are in multiple
         | things, but I'm not entirely sure that really makes sense for
         | everyone.
         | 
         | Will be actually see end of growing head counts for sake of
         | growing them soon?
        
           | glenngillen wrote:
           | Founder of FTX has publicly said he thinks most tech
           | companies have way too many staff (by a couple of order of
           | magnitude I think he said?). FTX has something like 30
           | people, and that's how he likes it.
        
         | ceeplusplus wrote:
         | Coinbase is probably exposed about as much to retail as
         | Robinhood is, and judging by Robinhood's monthly trading
         | volumes [1] which are down anywhere from 60-95% depending on
         | your reference point, Coinbase revenues have probably dropped
         | off a cliff.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://s28.q4cdn.com/948876185/files/doc_downloads/2022/06/...
        
           | fooobar124 wrote:
           | Retail trading in crypto is down ~90-95% at the moment.
           | 
           | Source: know several of the largest market makers on the big
           | retail exchanges.
        
         | hrgiger wrote:
         | I skipped binance interview in the past when there was no
         | crisis, their assignment:
         | 
         | Design and code a Content Management System (CMS) for Binance.
         | The CMS would used to post articles for the public. The current
         | Binance site supports up to 17 different languages. Each
         | article would have some translations but not all articles have
         | all of the 17 translations. Design and code a RESTful API for
         | the CMS.
         | 
         | The user of the CMS would need to input the different
         | translations for the same article. Design a user interface to
         | facilitate this. We would only be looking at the
         | functionalities of the user interface, so do not spend too much
         | time on the design aspects.
         | 
         | Derive your own data model as deem fit. The preferred language
         | for backend is Java and frontend is JavaScript though you are
         | free to choose any other languages as well as frameworks.
         | 
         | Submit the code as a GitHub repository and make sure that the
         | GitHub repository is public. Remember to add a README file for
         | instructions on how to run the application and explanations (if
         | any).
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | That's beyond despicable and should take this company of the
           | list of companies to be hired by for any self respecting
           | prospective employee. Utterly ridiculous.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | This was for a _job interview_? They wanted you to write an
           | entire content management system for them? For free?
        
             | hrgiger wrote:
             | Yep , didnt even answer, I had similar interviews solving
             | company problems but that one takes the lead, I still keep
             | the email, hope someone from their team will read so they
             | can re-calibrate their view
        
           | latchkey wrote:
           | https://twitter.com/iamdevloper/status/1539363132593819648
           | 
           | interviewer: if you can explain what deadlocks are, I'll hire
           | you
           | 
           | me: hire me, and I'll explain deadlocks
        
           | ralston3 wrote:
           | Wow. They really weren't trying to hide the fact that (1)
           | They were actively building a CMS in-house at the time, and
           | (2) They thought they did such a good job building said CMS,
           | that they'd check your work vs their own no doubt
           | stunning/transformative in-house work. XD
        
           | roflulz wrote:
           | with Django (or other heavy opinionated frameworks targeting
           | a CMS system), this seems like a ~3 hour project for a basic
           | CMS.
        
           | pluc wrote:
           | curl -X POST https://login.wordpress.org/register --data 'use
           | r_login=binancecms&user_email=contact@binance.com&terms_of_se
           | rvices=1618205211&user_mailinglist=false'
           | 
           | thank you come again
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | This brought me a desperately needed laugh today. Please
             | put something in your HN profile so I can send coffee/beer
             | money (buymeacoffee.com, etc).
        
               | pluc wrote:
               | Having a sale on laughs today; this one is on the house
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | These ones.
        
         | nikanj wrote:
         | Possibly they were stupid enough to get high on their own
         | supply, and kept operating capital in cryptos instead of USD.
         | 
         | I would be terrified too, if my business lost over 50% of it's
         | cash reserves. Or rather they still have the BTC, but it's
         | worth one third of peak
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | _Possibly they were stupid enough to get high on their own
           | supply, and kept operating capital in cryptos instead of
           | USD._
           | 
           | This is a classic mistake of banks. When allowed to do so,
           | they think they can improve their returns by running trading
           | desks. That's why we in the US used to have Glass-Stegall,
           | which kept banks and brokerages separate. Because, before and
           | after Glass-Stegall, banks got into trouble that way.
           | 
           | Nobody runs a pure crypto exchange that doesn't trade for
           | their own account. Crypto exchanges are depository
           | institutions, asset custodians, brokers, lenders, market
           | makers, and exchanges. All those customer assets, just
           | waiting to be exploited.
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | Unclear. The whole crypto boom may have been an artifact of low
         | interest rates. The junk bond part ("staking", etc.) definitely
         | was.
         | 
         | As I point out occasionally, most retail financial scams
         | appeared in the 17th through 19th centuries, as newspapers made
         | it possible to reach large numbers of suckers. There's not much
         | innovation. Most of crypto is the same old scams, repackaged.
         | Look up "bucket shop", "blind pool", "tulip mania",
         | "Mississippi bubble", "Florida real estate scam", and "high
         | yield investment program". Those alone cover most of crypto.
         | 
         | There have been overhyped tech booms many times in history, but
         | most actually _did_ something, such as build canals or
         | railroads or electric utilities or networks. The crypto
         | community has accomplished very little in the real world.
        
           | bogomipz wrote:
           | >"The junk bond part ("staking", etc.) definitely was."
           | 
           | Might you or someone else explain what staking is? Is this an
           | overloaded term in crypto? I know that there is proof of
           | stake that is used for consensus but I'm guessing this is not
           | the same thing? Is staking a Defi offering?
        
             | Animats wrote:
             | "All you need to know about crypto staking"[1]
             | 
             | That's what they tell the suckers.
             | 
             | [1] https://hitbtc.com/blog/all-you-need-to-know-about-
             | crypto-st...
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | imustbeevil wrote:
             | "Staking" means locking your coins on a platform for some
             | period of time (like a year). So, Tera or Celsius offer 20%
             | APY for locking your coins there for a year, then when
             | everything tanks and they go bankrupt everyone who locked
             | their coins there loses everything. It's a "junk bond"
             | because the idea is that you only get paid at the end of
             | the term, and at that point the bond is statistically
             | unlikely to pay out.
             | 
             | Like most financial schemes, it really has nothing to do
             | with the crypto, other than that it would be illegal to
             | operate platforms like this with real money, since we
             | created regulations _decades ago_ to protect people from
             | this.
        
               | bogomipz wrote:
               | Thanks these are helpful in understand that PoS the
               | consensus enables the the financial instrument known as
               | "staking."
               | 
               | Would the following be a correct summary then?
               | 
               | By holding more tokens you become a preferable verifier
               | node because you hold more tokens. And the way you hold
               | more tokens and burnish your reputation as a verifier is
               | by borrowing those assets from the actual owners and then
               | paying the asset owners double digit interest? Is this
               | correct? The idea is that you will make enough in
               | transaction fees on the network to payout something like
               | 18% interest to asset owner and still make a profit?
               | 
               | If so this seems wildly circular.
        
               | ditonal wrote:
               | The person who replied to you originally is confused.
               | 
               | "Staking" originally meant participating in a proof-of-
               | stake consensus and you get rewarded by the network with
               | the new blocks that are mined.
               | 
               | All the Terra / Luna / NFT / exchange "staking" was
               | people latching onto DPoS to make their schemes sound
               | more technologically sound. Its an overloaded term at
               | this point thats nearing meaningless unless you are clear
               | you mean actual proof-of-stake.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | ditonal wrote:
               | This is not accurate, but the problem is that staking got
               | way overloaded.
               | 
               | Staking should mean partcipating in a proof-of-stake
               | network by using your stake to participate in block
               | validation or delegating to someone else. In most cases
               | you don't need to lock anything and at no point do you
               | hand control of your funds to someone else.
               | 
               | The problem is that many grifters then came to use
               | "staking" to mean all sorts of different things with the
               | only thing being in common is, get some rewards. But I've
               | seen things like BlockFi get described as "staking" when
               | really its just giving your money to control of someone
               | else and earning interest on it.
        
               | imustbeevil wrote:
               | Since I don't want to respond to all of the cryptos
               | misunderstanding what staking means, you can also just
               | google it:
               | 
               | https://www.coindesk.com/learn/crypto-staking-101-what-
               | is-st...
               | 
               | > Similarly, when you stake your digital assets, you lock
               | up the coins in order to participate in running the
               | blockchain and maintaining its security. In exchange for
               | that, you earn rewards calculated in percentage yields.
               | These returns are typically much higher than any interest
               | rate offered by banks.
        
               | vba616 wrote:
               | I'm surprised you compare it to a junk bond.
               | 
               | It sounds pretty much like a CD aka "Certificate of
               | Deposit" which is a product sold by banks.
               | 
               | Is there an entire generation that doesn't know anyone
               | who ever bought a CD from a bank?
               | 
               | These days they are a joke, but still shown on bank web
               | pages.
               | 
               | Here is the list of rates from a regional bank near me:
               | 5 Year CD  0.10%        4 Year CD  0.10%        3 Year CD
               | 0.10%        2 Year CD  0.10%        18 Month CD  0.10%
               | 12 Month CD  0.10%
        
               | tomjakubowski wrote:
               | CDs are FDIC insured. If the bank goes under, you keep
               | your funds (up to the insurance limit). Staked
               | cryptocurrency accounts don't enjoy that benefit, as many
               | people are now learning.
               | 
               | I'd also recommend anyone shop around for CD rates. Those
               | are hardly representative of what you can get at, say,
               | Ally. (2.75% APY on a 5 year)
        
           | MisterBastahrd wrote:
           | The crypto boom was a gold rush for the permanently online
           | generation.
        
           | idiotsecant wrote:
           | These booms have happened before, complete with distributed
           | finance boom and bust cycle, exploitative rugpull projects,
           | and community mania. They just get a little bit bigger each
           | time.
        
         | jjtheblunt wrote:
         | > Look for them to start to buy up distressed crypto assets
         | 
         | What makes you think they're interested at all?
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | > When we come out of this downturn in a year or two
         | 
         | That's a pretty big assumption right there.
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | This goes in line with the same rule that 90% of these startups
       | like this one will fail. As for crypto projects, the same is
       | true, that 90% of them will also fail and like the survivors of
       | the dotcom crash, only a few of them will also survive.
       | 
       | So the anti-crypto and pro-crypto maximalists are going to be
       | both disappointed.
        
         | boardwaalk wrote:
         | A single data point doesn't give you any information about how
         | much of the industry will fail. "Goes in line" --- yeah,
         | because absolutely anything would fit.
         | 
         | "This is good for bitcoin"
        
           | rvz wrote:
           | That is assuming you have been paying attention to the recent
           | crypto crash, which is affecting the majority of crypto-
           | related companies and projects from DAOs to exchanges. So it
           | is hardly a single data point.
           | 
           | > "This is good for bitcoin"
           | 
           | And who said that?
        
       | mathverse wrote:
       | Bitpanda was hiring like crazy before the crypto burst. They were
       | scaling for infinite growth i guess because laying off 20%
       | workforce sounds crazy.
        
       | franze wrote:
       | I wonder if they will survive. They hired like crazy here in
       | Vienna. Lots of good people which started to work there are now 2
       | years later at other companies.
       | 
       | I tried to sign up for their service 2 times. Both time it did
       | not work. One time even after the success message after the video
       | verification.
       | 
       | Still getting Newsletters which seems to get more and more
       | irregular.
       | 
       | Well, we will see. Maybe cutting down will solve it for them in
       | the long term.
        
         | puranjay wrote:
         | There is no real retail demand for crypto. Happens every
         | bullrun. Retail comes in, gets a heady rush as their $5,000
         | becomes $20,000 (on paper) practically overnight. So they fomo
         | in more and keep holding through the top before cashing out for
         | less than their initial. 90% swear off crypto and never come
         | back.
         | 
         | You can't have retail demand for something that's only meant to
         | go up and do nothing else. There are no "normal" users buying
         | NFTs because they love the art, or buying ETH because they want
         | to use it to get overcollateralized loans on AAVE (when they
         | can get undercollateralized loans for cheaper).
         | 
         | I can't understand how VCs wouldn't get something every crypto
         | degen instinctively knows after a single bullrun.
        
         | hrnn wrote:
         | Didn't they or someone on their behalf even brag a few days ago
         | about the fact they weren't firing anyone and other crypto
         | companies did? I'm pretty certain there was a LinkedIn post
         | about it.
        
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       (page generated 2022-06-24 23:00 UTC)