[HN Gopher] Design lessons from guitar pedals
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Design lessons from guitar pedals
Author : williamsmj
Score : 98 points
Date : 2022-07-01 16:29 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (uxdesign.cc)
(TXT) w3m dump (uxdesign.cc)
| elpescado wrote:
| One can say that stomp boxes follow UNIX philosophy. They do one
| thing and can be connected ("piped") to make complex sounds. For
| example, if you want distortion, with some modulation (say, some
| phaser) and a little bit of a delay, you could build a pedalboard
| ("pipeline") with those three units plugged one into another:
| guitar | distortion | phaser | delay | amp
|
| BTW. in real life, as - by some weird convention - most of pedals
| have input in right side and output on the left, it looks like
| that: amp
| guitar ^ .-- phaser <--. |
| | | | | `-- delay
| <--, `-- distortion <--'
| jameshart wrote:
| Re the weird convention: When you're a right handed guitarist
| and you're facing towards your pedals, the lead comes out of
| your guitar going to the right.
|
| That's irrelevant if your pedals are in an FX loop, but if
| they're actually between the guitar and the amp, it makes
| perfect sense to avoid having your guitar lead trail across or
| catch under your stompboxes.
| jdontillman wrote:
| That's exactly right.
|
| Not a weird convention at all.
| weinzierl wrote:
| _" When we spoke, he told me how deeply he admires the interface
| design of musical equipment like guitar pedals."_
|
| Keyboardist here, so I cannot say much about guitar pedals, but I
| very much agree in general. Of course there is a ton of bad UI
| design also, but I think well designed musical instruments beat
| the best designs in other areas.
|
| For example: I have a modern digital stage piano. It's a computer
| with several gigs of RAM an yet the _whole_ manual is like _eight
| pages_. This is the complete manual, not some quick start guide.
|
| While it's no DAW it's not simple either, you can do a lot with
| it and still my child uses it without ever looking in the manual.
| marshray wrote:
| I used to think classical musical instruments were the epitome
| of design because they evolved to their function over hundreds
| of years.
|
| But then I started trying to learn to play one and began
| reading about the problems with physical injury that
| professional musicians persistently face. I realized musical
| instruments were full of design compromises like everything
| else.
| asdff wrote:
| A perfect instrument is physically impossible imo. There is
| always going to be a compromise because you are playing with
| fingers and their limited range of motion versus pure
| thoughts.
| quartesixte wrote:
| _cries in the strained neck of a violinist_
| dfox wrote:
| One UX issue that I've seen on most stage pianos is that while
| there are direct physical controls for most of the commonly
| used functionality due to lack of display and some menu system
| configuring "uncommon" things (like MIDI) leads to totally
| undiscoverable configuration modes, multi button chords and
| what not that you have to read the manual to find out.
| weinzierl wrote:
| This is so true, especially for master keyboards. Mine is a
| stage piano and it kind of side-steps this issue by having
| only a very simple MIDI setup. For a piano that is not meant
| to be the control center of everything else this is ok.
|
| If anyone knows a good master keyboard that has solved this
| issue satisfactorily, I'm all ears.
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| > This makes sense, right? Guitar pedals are, after all, a
| technology that you are supposed to step on. And not in some
| gentle, delicate manner!
|
| I remember getting a guitar pedal for Christmas when I was like
| 16 or so. My dad did not believe me that you were supposed to
| step on them, and was angry at me for mistreating his gift, lol.
| I showed him footage of real bands doing that and he told me
| "Yeah and Hendrix used to light his guitar on fire on stage, but
| you're not doing that either." He thought it was a stage trick.
|
| A well made pedal does feel great though. I still have a Boss
| pedal from 1988 that works with no repairs. Wish all of them were
| that durable, the DL4 is notable for having connections come
| apart internally after about a year. Easy fix, but sucks if it
| happens on stage.
|
| Point #3 is a big deal, especially being easily readable on stage
| in no light or lights in your face. I have the Lillian Phaser
| pictured in #5 and had to put tape over the blue LEDs because
| they are so bright they blind you when you look down. This isn't
| an issue specific to the Lillian either. From what I understand,
| blue LEDs are much brighter than the rest, and most designers
| don't take any steps to dim them.
| unwind wrote:
| Uh, I'm not anything with regards to music (and sometimes, I
| guess, I'm a cranky dad) but isn't it kind of obvious that
| you're not going to be using your hands to manipulate
| something, if you're _playing guitar_ at the same time? Also,
| the product is called a _pedal_, isn 't that kind of a clue-
| stick?
|
| Not to talk down you dad, obviously, but it seems like such a
| strange thing to not "get". :( I guess I'm sorry for your sake,
| that you didn't get to enjoy the gift fully.
| leetcrew wrote:
| it is an interesting phenomenon that people can have such
| strong opinions about things they have no interest in
| actually learning about.
|
| reminds me of when I was planning my first gaming PC build as
| a teenager. my dad kept going on about how "it's great that
| you're planning something that can run all these games, but
| have you made sure it will be able to run ms word for
| school?" I tried to explain many times that 3D games require
| (by a large margin) a superset of the resources needed to run
| word, but all he heard was that I didn't care much about
| school.
| tshaddox wrote:
| I mean at least your example is something that isn't
| plainly obvious from the widely-known definitions of words.
| The pedal example is literally someone being upset about
| using a pedal as a pedal.
| ksaj wrote:
| They're even called foot pedals, so the hint is in there
| twice.
| dwringer wrote:
| I have definitely broken a couple by stepping on them a
| bit aggressively in my youth, but that's all part of the
| rock and roll process.
| ksaj wrote:
| Yes, for example the FAB line is probably the anti-stomp
| box. They're mostly plastic, so you would definitely
| break them after a few good gigs.
|
| Some wah pedals are notorious for breaking down from even
| "standard" use. Especially the kind that have a plastic
| "zip tie" mechanism.
| tshaddox wrote:
| > They're even called foot pedals
|
| Which is actually weird and redundant, since foot
| operation is literally the definition of "pedal." Foot
| operation is the _defining_ and _only_ characteristic of
| a pedal. It 's even plainly obvious in the etymology of
| the word.
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| On the box it usually doesn't call it a pedal, just something
| like Boss DS-1 distortion.
|
| Don't worry I stomped on it while jamming with a band. But at
| home it was on the desk :p
| CyberDildonics wrote:
| This seems more like a jogged memory than anything relevant to
| link.
| [deleted]
| ksaj wrote:
| It probably doesn't matter now, but all LED's have a resistor
| connected to them so they don't just burn out. You can desolder
| it and put a different one in. Since it isn't a critical piece,
| you can touch contact a few different ones until you get the
| level of dimness you want.
| ironmagma wrote:
| > When I'm driving, I do not want to have to glance at a screen
| to figure out how to turn down the damn air conditioning.
|
| This is my #1 complaint about modern cars. It's like the
| designers don't know about the epidemic of distracted driving.
| sbf501 wrote:
| I'm surprised the author didn't discuss actual electronics. Early
| BOSS pedals in the 80's were wonders of analog design. Check out
| the schematics of the chorus, flanger, and phaser. They are
| delightful to study:
|
| https://elektrotanya.com/PREVIEWS/63463243/23432455/boss/bos...
|
| https://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/s/boss-bf2-flanger.ph...
|
| There's a reason why the ratio of analog to digital designers is
| about 1:1000.
| javchz wrote:
| Love when we go back to physical items to get lessons for GUIs.
|
| "The design of everyday things" it's an amazing book to start in
| this area, specially if you work with something that mix hardware
| and software like IoT.
| beardedman wrote:
| I really don't like articles like these. The author takes a cute
| analogy and turns it into guiding principals.
|
| > Physical UIs can be more intuitive and usable than screens
|
| Physical UIs also don't need to help the user navigate digital
| content. Hugely different to physical content.
|
| > When tech is rugged, it's a joy to use
|
| It is? I would say that when tech accomplishes its job of
| connecting the user with the purpose of the tool (in an easy way)
| - then it's a joy to use. Ruggedness can be a boon here, sure.
|
| Personally, as a musician, I've never been on stage and given
| preference to knobs & dials - I've given it to the sound and what
| I want the audience to experience with my playing or a song - not
| the joy of me stomping something.
|
| Bit of a rant, sorry about that. But these sorts of "full of
| content, but no message" articles bug me.
| jrm4 wrote:
| Honestly, modern UX is frequently _so stupid_ that, apparently,
| articles this simple are necessary.
|
| Lookin' at you, Tesla touchscreen.
| beckerdo wrote:
| "Physical UIs also don't need to help the user navigate digital
| content. Hugely different to physical content."
|
| Consider the Beat Buddy pedal (automated drum accompaniment
| pedal) which can play lots of digital content via user
| commands. Yes the foot commands are limited ("add a fill",
| "splash sound", "next phrase", "end song"), and so are the
| dials ("choose playlist", "change tempo"). However, the proper
| stomping really helps if you want to add an extra solo or just
| chill with a beat while you tell a story.
| copperx wrote:
| > Guitar pedals are aesthetically gorgeous.
|
| The writer lost me here. Sure, some have beautiful artwork. But
| pedals themselves are perhaps the ugliest contraptions I have
| laid my eyes on. Just look at the form of BOSS pedals. As always,
| there are a few exceptions. But in general, guitar pedals are an
| eyesore. To make matters worse, musicians put them on pedalboards
| in all sorts of kitsch arrangements. When you couple that with
| the pathological American dislike of feet and everything
| associated with feet, you end up with an object only worthy of
| contempt.
| elpescado wrote:
| What's so bad about Boss pedals. I _love_ how they look. Their
| retro-futuristic vibe (it's genuine vibe, they haven't changed
| since 80s).
| MDGeist wrote:
| I also love Boss pedals, so many pedals now are the same
| rectangular box in one of two common sizes. At least the Boss
| ones are unique!
| marshray wrote:
| What is this part about a "pathological American dislike of
| everything associated with feet"?
|
| I've lived here my whole life and never heard of this.
| quartesixte wrote:
| Recent developments in certain sub-sections of internet media
| definitely point to the exact opposite, in fact.
| copperx wrote:
| No, that's just a small niche. Shaming barefoot people is
| now a national pastime. Especially in airplanes and
| offices.
| quartesixte wrote:
| What on earth since when o_o
| copperx wrote:
| Here's one example:
|
| https://borntolivebarefoot.org/hate-sites-promote-
| shaming-of...
|
| And here's one person's experience:
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/barefoot/comments/vnnbpz/cover_y
| our...
| asdff wrote:
| Yeah because for the type of people who feel the need to
| ventillate their foot in the middle of the day in the
| workplace or in an airplane do not exactly have odorless
| sweat. When was foot odor tolerated? The 1800s?
| dhagz wrote:
| I get where you're coming from, but I think you're expecting
| too much from the "form" part of design, when guitar pedals are
| basically pushed entirely towards "function". There's obviously
| a spectrum (Walrus Audio, Earthquaker Devics for two that
| manage good function and good form), but BOSS pedals are
| beautiful to me in just how easy they are to use - that big ol'
| flap covering the switch makes it to where I have to try
| _really_ hard to not turn the pedal on when I stomp on it. And
| that's the primary thing I want to do with a pedal - turn it
| off and on. BOSS's pedals actually very literally are laid out
| in proportion to how I use them - the dials get maybe 20-25% of
| the enclosure's usable space, while the rest is dedicated to
| making it easy to do the thing I care about. It might be
| brutalist and basically entirely function over form, but
| there's beauty in just how usable it is.
| levicole wrote:
| I just want to say you missed Chase Bliss when mentioning
| good function and good form. Especially their Automotone
| series pedals (e.g. CXM1978 and their preamp). I find all of
| their pedals aesthetically pleasing and easy to use (with
| some bit of mystery akin to Eurorack like another commenter
| mentioned)
| bravoetch wrote:
| The interface is good, only because nobody has no ads / attention
| economy shit in the chain. Without that anti-pattern incentive we
| can wax lyrical about the joys of using something. Joy of use is
| still the objective.
|
| When a company like eight-sleep decides to make pedals, there
| will be an app with a subscription, and 'content' and extra
| features for a fee, like 'adjust volume'. You'll get multiple
| emails every week with a breakdown of your 'pedal data' and
| suggestions for improving it - 'buy this accessory button!'.
| Bla.. I hate the internet.
| colmmacc wrote:
| As a gigging musician I've found that pedals aren't without their
| own UI/UX problems. Nearly every pedal has a gain control ... but
| they can interact in non-linear ways. Tiny changes make a bigger
| difference when the overall-gain is low, compared a chain with
| more amplification. When you're plugging into a venue desk (and
| not going through an on-stage Amp) ... it can be a nightmare
| trying to figure out what combination of gain settings and pads
| would work. Worse is that important parts of that are often
| hidden; pads are usually toggles just hidden on the side. And
| there's no feedback UX ... I'd love a simple VU meter on a DI or
| EQ-stage pedal for example (Studio V3 tube amp pedals have this,
| but it's not common). I have hundreds of photos on my phone of my
| pedal board memorializing the settings for a particular song,
| piece, or venue .... because good luck saving state across
| multiple pedals. Strymon have their own standard for this, but
| there's not much inter-operable, or you can spend on a multi-
| thousand dollar multi-effects pedal. Anyway, I could rant for
| hours about pedal UX.
|
| But yes, way better than my Tesla.
| pfortuny wrote:
| I am by no means a musician. This friend brought me his guitar
| pedal because he could not fix it (got stuck somehow and he had
| not read the manual properly, that's it).
|
| After "fixing" it, he showed me how he used it (I had never seen
| one in use).
|
| Those are true marvels of UI/UX. It was possibly one of the
| simplest pedals, but the things you can do with it and just "one"
| button. Unbelievable.
| tonymet wrote:
| If you get a chance, drive a car from the 90s, especially a fully
| mechanical one (mechanical transmission, windows). Once you get
| adjusted, you'll find that you're almost totally relaxed while
| driving. There are few controls, and the ones that are there are
| immediately responsive & tactile.
| asdff wrote:
| Modern cars are so numb. Engineers have worked hard to remove
| all sense of tactile inputs and feedback. My 2000 manual acura
| I could drive blind. I could feel intimate details of the road
| surface through the wheel, and exactly what rpm I was at
| through the pedals and the shifter especially (to a lesser
| extent the wheel and seat as well because the entire car would
| vibrate). Put snow tires on and go out in a blizzard and you
| are in complete control of all things. You feel the minute
| traction slips, you feel how it feels when it comes back, you
| feel what its like to hold traction and maintain control versus
| letting it go. You become a much better driver.
|
| Unfortunately due to some circumstances I am saddled with a
| 2018 era econobox that feels like its made by fisher price, but
| should my finances change the first thing I'm doing is buying
| something old enough to order its own drinks. Peak car was 25
| years ago. We had our 35mpg by then and side curtain airbags.
| We are on the decline. Buy these assets now while they are
| still under 25 grand or be forever lusting in the decades from
| now when no sensible car is made anymore and all the decent
| used stock is going to collector auctions instead of used car
| lots.
| stakkur wrote:
| I'm a musician, but not a music tech expert. However, most
| professional guitarists/bassists I know who play larger venues
| are using an effects rack, not a board of pedals (or maybe a
| pedal or two to switch effects). This has waxed and wanted in
| popularity since the 80s, but my anecdotal evidence is that pedal
| rigs are less common than ever. I agree about the rugged design,
| though--I still use a chorus pedal from the late 80s, and it's
| nigh indestructible.
| khazhoux wrote:
| Without any data except watching countless youtube videos, the
| only place I see racks is for big stadium acts (U2 and the
| like) where it's a huge production and a lot of different tones
| need to be changed out. But by and large, I otherwise see a ton
| of pedal rigs for even well-known professionals, indie bands,
| and of course non-pros.
|
| We're probably right now at a high point of pedal usage and new
| releases, thanks to super-engaging YouTubers like That Pedal
| Show, Andertons, Andy Martin, J Leonard J, Pete Thorn, and the
| list just goes on.
| ksaj wrote:
| Some effects are better on rack. For example, delay doesn't
| immediately cut off when you switch it off.
|
| But you're right. A lot of modern guitar players use racks -
| even Tony Iommi from Black Sabbath does these days. Pretty much
| the only stomp box you're most likely to see on the floor even
| with rack users, is an overdrive.
| motohagiography wrote:
| It starts with guitar pedals, but once you get into eurorack
| synth modules, the UX is completely fascinating. Counter to the
| article's emphasis on obvious a clear functions, some of them are
| as mystifying as your first encounter with a unix command line,
| but once you get them going, holy crap. The depth of information
| you get from a synth is (literaly) infinite compared to what you
| get from text or images on a screen.
| LegitShady wrote:
| what depth of information are you talking about? the synth
| outputs sound. It might have a small screen. there may be knobs
| with number scales. but overall you aren't taking a ton of
| information out of a synth.
| swatcoder wrote:
| I don't know what exactly the OP means by depth of
| information, but modular synthesis is a lot richer than what
| you describe.
|
| You may be pulling in signals from bananas (literally),
| driving them through a dozen modules with three times as many
| patch cables and using them to drive a video signal and a few
| stepper motors alongside your audio out.
|
| And you're doing it with a lot of bespoke little modules made
| in small batches, sometimes with faults, and almost always
| capable of things that were neither envisioned or documented
| by their original designer.
|
| It's a whole different world than guitar pedals or even a
| single big commercial synth (which is what your description
| sounds like).
| hluska wrote:
| If you like synthesizers, I'd strongly suggest checking out
| one of the synths op talked about. They're an immense amount
| of fun and are closer to an IDE than say, a Juno-106.
| scarecrowbob wrote:
| So, I have a very nice synth made by AMS, the Hydrasynth.
|
| It's not a modular synth, but quite the opposite... it's a
| digital synth which is more like a computer than, say, a
| minimoog.
|
| It has a great UI and much of what it does it shows you very
| well.
|
| Still, it has a massive modulation matrix, in which the 5
| LFOs and the 5 Envelopes can be sent about anywhere, often
| controlling the 3 oscillators or the 2 filters.
|
| And in order to actually see the 10 or so setting for each of
| those 10 modulators going to the myriad of places that they
| could go (and noting that you can route the oscilators
| themselves to various points) you have to have both some
| willingness to dive around the small menus or some knowledge
| of how the patch was created.
|
| That's nicely facilitated by the UI which has a lot of nice
| buttons for quickly selecting element, but still.
|
| By contrast, you can look at your modular synth and see the
| physical connections which reveal the routing of the patch.
| While there are all kinds of things that can hide the
| complexity such as normalized connections within devices or
| devices that have their own micro-controllers doing who knows
| what, the network of wires is, itself, quite a lot of
| information.
| bashinator wrote:
| The kind of synth's GP is talking about generally have no
| screen, dozens to hundreds of knobs and sliders, and dozens
| to hundreds of audio inputs and outputs for routing the
| signal.
| mgdlbp wrote:
| Don't forget the most common pedal-controlled electric (and now
| electronic) appliance, the sewing machine! In that case, the
| speed control pedal was a natural development from earlier
| machines powered by treadles and bicycle-like pedals. There's a
| parallel in flexible-shaft rotary tools (basically high-end
| Dremels), which also require simultaneous continuous speed
| control while both hands are occupied with the work being done.
| The lack of this requirement is probably why the other machines
| that were pedal-powered prior to electrification--grinders, saws,
| (dental) drills, and lathes--did not retain pedal controls.
|
| Other "edge-case" pedals:
|
| - various vehicles
|
| - foot-operated computer mice, for accessibility
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footmouse)
|
| - elsewhere in music: piano, timpani, kick drum, and harp; organs
| (and rare pianos) with _pedal_ keyboards (in etymological
| contrast to _manual_ keyboards)
| mhfs wrote:
| > Physical UIs can be more intuitive and usable than screens
|
| A thousand times this.
|
| Not related to guitars, but I do a lot of off-roading and the
| multimedia system is only controlled by the big screen. In bumpy
| roads it's a trial and error operation to skip a song. Give me my
| previous/next physical buttons back.
| dizhn wrote:
| My old portable CD player had perfected this skipping thing.
| Didn't even need user input.
| moron4hire wrote:
| This is exactly why I bought a Mazda after loving my previous
| Subaru to death. Between when I bought my Forester and when I
| went to replace it, Subaru had gone all in on touch screen
| interfaces. Meanwhile, Mazda had declared they would never,
| citing studies they increase road hazard more than _drinking
| alcohol_.
| danielvaughn wrote:
| It just seems so insane to me that cars are even _allowed_ to
| have touch screens. The last thing I want to do is to be
| _forced_ to take my eyes away from the road in order to push a
| button on my dashboard. I 'll never buy a vehicle with a touch
| screen.
| asdff wrote:
| Plus its like the worst touchscreen tech imaginable. Cars if
| they are going to have a touchscreen, should have that 15
| year old blackberry storm touch screen tech with faux button
| haptics.
| trasz wrote:
| The UI is fantastic once you figure out that the pedals are to be
| wired exactly backwards, with input on the right side, output on
| the left.
| analog31 wrote:
| And negative on the center terminal of the power supply plug.
| dwringer wrote:
| Always double check this, there are still some exceptions.
| analog31 wrote:
| The worst one on the bandstand is the 12 V supply for
| keyboards, which are center-positive.
|
| I opened up one effects pedal once, and an electrolytic
| capacitor had completely blown its top off, and the
| contents were spewed throughout the enclosure.
| marshray wrote:
| Those easily-detached non-locking barrel jacks for power are
| definitely the weak point of guitar pedal design.
| asdff wrote:
| Not hard to do considering many pedals have a label for input
| and output
| jrajav wrote:
| This signal flow is only backwards if you're left-handed (like
| a lot of the world).
|
| If you're right-handed, imagine you just plugged in your guitar
| and then tossed the cable off to one side. You probably just
| chucked it to the right, away from the plug. Now look down at
| your pedalboard, right in front of you. The signal flow
| probably starts most naturally on the right side, near where
| you just tossed your cable.
| subroutine wrote:
| The article doesn't mention this, but in my experience playing
| live gigs the full pedal stomp (1) is significantly better than
| dimple button style stomp (2). In fact, for me, it's a
| dealbreaker if a pedal has a dimple stomp. I'm curious if other
| ppl feel similarly.
|
| 1.
| https://www.roland.com/RolandComSite/media/uk/images/article...
|
| 2. https://delicious-audio.com/wp-
| content/uploads//2016/01/Iban...
| resonator wrote:
| I chose a pedal based on the sound it produces not how it feels
| to use. I like the feel of the full buttons, but my board
| doesn't have any. Until now I've never even thought about it.
| So no, it's not at all a dealbreaker for me. If it were, it
| would severely limit my choices.
| ksaj wrote:
| Those mini-pedals pretty much only come with "dimple stomps,"
| as do most wah pedals under the rocker.
|
| My board has quite a mix of each format. Of course the Klon
| Klone has a dimple, but I like Boss pedals for their
| durability. Those switches are actually cheap plastic, but the
| part you stomp on limits you from crushing it.
| nathias wrote:
| screens are just cost saving devices, knobs and buttons are
| always much better to use
| kennywinker wrote:
| Other ux points he didn't include:
|
| One knob per option, not deep menu diving.
|
| One pedal per function, not one pedal to rule them all.
| ksaj wrote:
| That's only partly true. There are a lot of foot pedals that
| emulate the whole chain, and some of them even do speaker
| emulation. They tend to be at a minimum double-width and often
| have a wah that also can act as a volume rocker.
|
| But for the standard pedals, you are totally right.
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(page generated 2022-07-01 23:00 UTC)