[HN Gopher] Kyoto framework is moving to sr.ht from GitHub
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Kyoto framework is moving to sr.ht from GitHub
Author : gkbrk
Score : 71 points
Date : 2022-07-02 18:56 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| newaccount2021 wrote:
| last night I checked my billing page on sr.ht and there was a
| line chart that had "11.2%" to indicate that currently 11.2% of
| users are paying...there was also a redline at 13% which I assume
| is some sustainability threshold
|
| if you want viable alternatives to github, pay up!
|
| sr.ht is a nice service that allows some premium features like
| ssh'ing into ci instances to check failures...there is plenty
| worth paying for
| ok_dad wrote:
| The red line is at 13.37 percent, so I assume it's a semi-joke.
|
| You can read about the 2021 financials here; it seems that the
| project is pretty successful overall:
| https://sourcehut.org/blog/2022-04-08-2021-financial-report/
| ddevault wrote:
| Yeah, it's just a joke. SourceHut is already profitable &
| sustainable. But, I think that it is important that we
| establish the expectation that users should be paying for the
| service. It keeps our interests aligned directly with theirs
| and we are accountable to no one else.
| 8organicbits wrote:
| > As far as a go packaging system makes host changing painful
| enough, there is no chance to keep old versions on the new host.
|
| > If you're using version 0.x, please, make a fork, or create a
| local project copy.
|
| I feel like an official mirror on GitHub would be cleaner, as the
| old URLs could still work, but I suppose that doesn't match the
| vision.
| bbkane wrote:
| If you're starting a new Go project, I strongly recommend using
| a custom import path- I host go.bbkane.com with GitHub Pages
| and it was easy and free to set up with vangen and GitHub Pages
| (I already own bbkane.com).
|
| https://github.com/bbkane/go.bbkane.com
| Nextgrid wrote:
| I wish Sourcehut displayed code on the repo's primary page (as
| opposed to a separate "tree" tab) like most mainstream services
| such as GitHub or GitLab.
| quadrifoliate wrote:
| In another of the get-off-GitHub discussions recently, I
| mentioned to another FOSS project leader that they should
| consider taking their projects off GitHub to a forge that
| respects FOSS licenses. Sourcehut was one of the suggestions in
| addition to GitLab.
|
| I'm glad to see that some projects are leading the way in this
| direction. To me, this move shows that the devs are competent and
| not afraid of migrations away from legacy forges if necessary;
| similar to how people moved from Sourceforge to GitHub 10 years
| ago.
|
| I'll keep Kyoto framework in mind if need an SSR frontend
| framework in the future! I suggest others do the same.
|
| ----------------------------------------
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31941568
| swagonomixxx wrote:
| Just had this thought: are there any decentralized code hosting
| services?
|
| To me, I don't really see a difference between GitHub and sr.ht.
| Companies can start out with these "friendly" attitudes towards
| FOSS, but when they reel in many paying customers, they can
| pretty easily, and without consequence, change their policies to
| be more aggressive (geared towards profit) and greedy. It just
| seems inevitable to me.
|
| However, decentralized hosting and governance might make it so
| that there can't be a hostile takeover and incorrect (relative to
| license) usage of FOSS code. I'm thinking something akin to IPFS
| but more specialized towards e.g git repository hosting.
|
| Not sure how such hosting would be feasible in terms of breaking
| even between hosting costs, but a decentralized service hosting
| distributed VCS databases seems more along the lines of the
| philosophy of DVCS's in general. DVCS's in general do not have
| timeliness requirements (i.e your "git push" most of the time
| doesn't have to propagate worldwide immediately) and the other
| goodies that come with being on GitHub (e.g CI/CD) seem
| orthogonal to the actual code hosting itself, and I don't see why
| that can't be built separately without being part of the service.
| miohtama wrote:
| Radicle is a decentralised Github alternative to the point it
| does not have any centralised servers. However, because of
| "web3" many people here on HackerNews might not take it
| seriously, even thought it might deserve a closer look.
|
| https://radicle.xyz/
| capableweb wrote:
| As long as it's P2P without involving any cryptocurrencies, I
| don't see why you'd label it "Web3"?
|
| Edit: seems Ethereum is a opt-in optional part of Radicle, so
| I see how people could believe it to be a part of the whole
| "Web3" effort.
|
| Well, as long as I can run it without Ethereum, I'm happy.
| miohtama wrote:
| It literally says Web3 on the second heading of the landing
| page.
| capableweb wrote:
| As my edit mentions, seems at least that part is opt-in
| rather than a core of the protocol. So you can use it
| without "Web3" if you want.
| rychco wrote:
| I don't know Drew DeVault personally, but I feel from his blog
| that he's fairly transparent and not interested in attempting
| to squeeze out every possible cent of profit from sourcehut. I
| may be proven wrong in the future, but for now I'm happy with
| the service and hopeful that it will remain affordable,
| friendly, and fast.
| mbreese wrote:
| Git itself is decentralized. It is entirely agnostic from a
| centralized/decentralized point of view. We tend to centralize
| things to make life easier. Who wants to pull updates from each
| contributor as opposed to a hub?
|
| So the real question is -- what are the features of GitHub
| would you like to see decentralized? CI? Issues? Wikis?
| Because, you can self host many of these with gitea, GitLab, or
| sr.ht. That's the best kind of decentralization, but it does
| add to your own personal overhead (maintenance, backups), and
| really limits discovery.
|
| I think what you might be asking for is if there is a federated
| code repository that supports git. That's an interesting
| question, and I don't know if such a thing yet exists.
| ranaexmachina wrote:
| > To me, I don't really see a difference between GitHub and
| sr.ht. Companies can start out with these "friendly" attitudes
| towards FOSS, but when they reel in many paying customers, they
| can pretty easily, and without consequence, change their
| policies to be more aggressive (geared towards profit) and
| greedy. It just seems inevitable to me.
|
| But with sourcehut you can just host it yourself or find
| someone else who hosts that as everything is FOSS.
|
| If you don't want to use the built-in CI, wiki and issue
| tracker, then Git is already decentralized. You can push and
| pull easily from and to multiple sources. Git is already built
| for that exact use case.
| capableweb wrote:
| > If you don't want to use the built-in CI, wiki and issue
| tracker, then Git is already decentralized. You can push and
| pull easily from and to multiple sources. Git is already
| built for that exact use case.
|
| Git is a great protocol. You can pull/push to HTTPS servers,
| SSH servers, even directories (so via NFS if you so wish).
| Really, Git is really awesome in that way.
|
| But Git itself is not a "code hosting service" that parent
| asked for. That requires more. Something like Fossil SCM
| would probably fit better, or git-ssb as I mentioned in
| another comment here.
| goodpoint wrote:
| > I don't really see a difference between GitHub and sr.ht.
| Companies can start out with these "friendly" attitudes towards
| FOSS
|
| You are really comparing DeVault with, of all companies,
| microsoft?
| capableweb wrote:
| git-ssb is really nice for decentralized hosting between
| friends. Uses Secure Scuttlebutt (https://scuttlebutt.nz/) and
| I've used it for over a year to collaborate on projects with
| people over ssb.
|
| I'm a bit scared of putting this link here, as the gateway is
| not super reliable, so I'll ask people who are curious, to get
| ssb running locally and pull down the data if they want to look
| into it deeper.
|
| But regardless, here is the link for the curious minds who
| can't wait, it's the repository for git-ssb itself:
| https://git.scuttlebot.io/%254Dsh92G6zkkLnR3%2Fys%2Fv42MD0jK...
|
| If you get server errors, jump on ssb yourself, or wait some
| seconds/minutes and refresh. Be kind to the poor server.
| sergiotapia wrote:
| Drew Devault is /g/ incarnate. He won't ever do any bullshit to
| people using the services. If anything he would just as well
| burn it all to the ground.
| ddevault wrote:
| Founder of sr.ht here. I understand these fears, and I have
| gone to great lengths to give users tangible assurances in this
| regard. Trust is something that has to be earned, and it is
| incredibly important to me that we are worthy of yours.
|
| For a start, the company is bootstrapped and we have no private
| investors. The revenue to maintain the platform comes directly
| from users, and all users are expected to pay if they have the
| means for this reason. We are accountable only to them and we
| do not have to find "creative" ways to monetize them (or their
| work) because they are already footing the bill themselves.
| Every cent paid by users stays in open source, either
| supporting the platform or the dozens of projects our engineers
| maintain or contribute to in the FOSS ecosystem.
|
| We also seek to be as transparent as possible. Our financial
| reports, monitoring system & alarms, security reporting,
| operational documentation, backups, and so on, is all publicly
| available. We have hard data that you can use to understand our
| platform's sustainability, security, performance, uptime, and
| more.
|
| And, unlike GitHub (and GitLab), SourceHut is 100% bona-fide
| free software, mostly AGPL. You can run it on your own servers,
| and we make it easy to import and export your data, in
| standard, interoperable formats that you can use to move
| between instances or even between software stacks, such as GNU
| Mailman or other solutions. SourceHut is also not an ivory
| tower -- we elevate our users to peers, and many parts of our
| system are officially maintained by independent volunteers.
|
| I work really hard for our user's trust and I'm proud to know
| that I have it. If anyone has questions or concerns, I'm always
| prepared to listen to them and do what it takes to make sure
| our users are confident in the platform. FOSS is my life's
| passion and I am committed to doing it right.
| johnny22 wrote:
| I wouldn't want to use any decentralized system for code if
| there's no discovery, code search, cross instance logins, AND
| BACKUPS.
|
| It'd suck to end up in a situation like you see with torrents,
| where there are tons of references, but no access to the data.
|
| I can imagine tons of useful code being lost over time that
| way.
| [deleted]
| morpheuskafka wrote:
| I don't know the backstory with the sr.ht founder or anything,
| but I think there is a difference. GitHub always started out as
| a for-profit company, albeit targeting the market of FOSS
| developers/communities, and had a closed-source product sold
| for on-prem use. Sourcehut is itself FOSS software from the
| beginning and has its own developer community, so it is a
| little different.
| Shadonototra wrote:
| I approve the move, congrats!
| andybak wrote:
| If there's a big migration away from Github then I really worry
| what I'll do about discovering interesting stuff. I spend an hour
| or so a week looking through my Github feed. Something genuinely
| valuable will be lost once that is no longer a rich seam of new
| repos.
| 202206241203 wrote:
| These things are like "Why I left Google" from 2010s.
| sergiotapia wrote:
| I left Codeplex many years ago. I could easily leave Github as
| well, in fact I'll do that over the weekend.
|
| This article was pretty eye-opening.
| https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/
| capableweb wrote:
| The title confused me at first, "they are moving from sr.ht to
| GitHub?", but then I realized I'm just used to reading migrations
| like that in a "from $serviceB to $serviceA" manner and "to
| $serviceA from $serviceB" made it all wrong in my brain. Funny
| how that works.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| You will love the Intel assembly dialect.
| phdelightful wrote:
| I like "from A to B" because B happens after A temporally and
| in the text. It also serves to emphasize A as opposed to B,
| which is nice because we usually wouldn't leave A unless there
| was really a problem with it even if B is better in some way.
| phnofive wrote:
| Had the same reaction - skipping prepositions and mashing the
| nouns into a trained interpretive mold. Guess I need to slow
| down.
| gigatexal wrote:
| Yikes. Mailing list development might work for Linus and the
| kernel team but the PR approach on GitHub is so much easier for
| developers to discover and use and even for senior or more
| seasoned devs I'd rather do this in the open on a PR than in some
| mailing list. Ugh.
| morpheuskafka wrote:
| There's a huge middle ground of running your own instance of
| Gitlab/etc. versus going to the mailing list style of
| development (even that could be a lot easier with a more
| readable web interface and web posting support).
| shp0ngle wrote:
| I think the mailing list approach would work for giant projects
| that have many bullshit PRs and issues, and you want to deter
| the "hello please fix it on my pc" stuff. Not really for small
| projects where each PR is usually helpful.
|
| I have no idea what is kyoto and if it fits there.
| meibo wrote:
| Yeah, I was reading this and thought "Have fun!":
|
| > I don't know much about it, but I'm going to dig into it in
| the near future (https://man.sr.ht/lists.sr.ht/). For now,
| those who want to contribute, I'll just add read/write
| permissions to the project.
| markphip wrote:
| FWIW, just as Amazon and SalesForce are already doing their
| version of CoPilot, there is nothing to prevent GitHub from
| training its models off open source that is hosted on sr.ht or
| GitLab or anywhere else. If it is open source then the source is
| going to be available to be used for the models.
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